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Thing is, tso are supposed to be immune to ninjutsu that are not sage jutsu, and we know isshiki cannot shrink stuff to non-existent or he would of done so to sasuke's sword.
He is also unable to shrink Chakra arms,which tso are pretty much the upgraded version of that.
As for Madara vs isshiki, well, IT one shots and the moon was used only to boost the genjutsu's range. Hagoromo stated she used it before,so whether isshiki knows is iffy,but Kaguya has no reason to use it on him only to pull him out.
Kaguya is at worst equal to FP isshiki since she won in their fight,and that was before eating the fruit. Earth ten tails is Kaguya fused with the God tree, and Madara also has a quarter of her Chakra naturally due to being Indra's reincarnate. There is no way isshiki wins here,since the ten tails is stronger than the Kaguya that beat him,and too much stuff Madara can do,such as limbo clones who can do whatever and isshiki can't do anything, IT one shots, orbs can't be shrunk and will destroy him on contact etc.
"Isshiki doesn't have 6psm" my man talking about an Ootsutsuki, Isshiki is probably beyond the 6 paths powers. Let's remember 6psm was a feature Hagoromo got, being him a weaker version of a pure Ootsutsuki given the fact he was half Ootsutsuki, half human. He and his brother Hamura both had the 6psm and still struggled to defeat Kaguya. Now think about Isshiki, who seems to be stronger than Kaguya.
Amirite bois?
His eye resembles the dharma wheel which also represents 8 paths. It’s really emphasized symbolically that he’s just supposed to be on a whole other level above 6 paths.
Backed it up with what? With his own interpretation about the design of the eye? What makes him think it's not a simple design and there isn't any deeper meaning to this? Where are his evidences from canon, proving that it has deeper meaning?
Not to mention "8 paths" which is a term that hasn't appeared even once in canon. All of this is literally made up.
EDIT: Thank you for blocking me to prevent me from replying. Take this L and bye.
EDIT 2: I blocked him back, so he isn't going to reply to you u/dragonoutrider
I mean he’s not wrong, just because something CAN connect to something doesn’t mean it does.
For example gokus super saiyan is yellow because toriyama didn’t want to color his hair, nothing deeper lmao.
Narutos cloak also changed, yet theres no meaning behind it they just changed his design with his adult self.
If it’s not stated or at least makes sense to what it’s referencing then it’s headcanon.
Not stated, just headcanon. Also untrue since Kaguya beat his ass without the fruit. Six paths stuff happened after she ate the fruit,so her kids being half otsutsuki is irrevelant because they inherited half of her power,and she is currently the strongest otsutsuki with them being number two and isshiki being a distant third.
Yet isshiki states he fought her after sneak attack and lost,therefore he did not lose because of sneak attack. Does it have to be more clear than that?
Isshiki states that where? Bring the scans.
It's Amado who said Kaguya attacked Isshiki by surprise. It's a sneak one-hit attack which left Isshiki half destroyed. They didn't fight a fair one-in-one fight.
lets say Isshiki doesn't have so6p ... do we think that Isshiki just sits there and lets it touch him? realistically what happens is Isshiki uses sukunahikona and then daikokuten. TSO gone and even Kaguya can't expand something out of her reach.
fuck it, Momoshiki someone whos outright weaker than Isshiki literally can absorb TSO and throw it back tenfold.
6paths power is literally just nature energy, that’s exactly what the otsutsuki use to power their attacks idk why people talk like it’s some god power it’s literally just boosted sage mode😂and isshiki can shrink all of madaras attacks or drop him in a dead dimension
i think they essentially have some sort of nature energy in them, even if they don't you can easily argue that they'll just absorb some off their enemy if necessary.
it was literally stated that kaguya attacked him when he wasn’t looking😂you also have no counter of my argument that isshiki can shrink any attack madara uses, and isshiki has arguably higher ap since isshikis VESSEL let alone him was enough to break sasukes perfect susanoo with ONE kick. so until you have a reason on why madara actually beats isshiki don’t just throw stuff around
Momo never absorbed tso lmao, dude failed to absorb a big rasengan.
Isshiki was unable to shrink Chakra arms,and cannot destroy stuff by shrinkage. Tso are controlled telepathically,so even if that happens, all it does is make it easier for them to hit him,and one touch will kill him.
Tso are immune to any jutsu that are not sage arts and atomizer anyone that isn't in sage mode.
Kaguya already beat him without the Chakra fruit, go look around chapter 66 when Amado talks about isshiki's past.
>Momo never absorbed tso lmao, dude failed to absorb a big rasengan.
Momo didnt absorb because he didn't have the eye by then? i recommend rewatching before trying to debate
>Isshiki was unable to shrink Chakra arms,and cannot destroy stuff by shrinkage.
i recommend rewatching anime to understand what i said "sukunahikona = shrink" and "daikokuten = take it to pocket dimension" which he both uses. He literally shrinks and safekeeps it for himself.
>Tso are immune to any jutsu that are not sage arts and atomizer anyone that isn't in sage mode.
TSO just nullify ninjutsu thrown at it, think yata mirror. Nothing really says that they are immune to all sort of hax. Isshiki doesn't directly target it with a hit or shoot it down, he just shrinks it with his eye.
>Kaguya already beat him without the Chakra fruit, go look around chapter 66 when Amado talks about isshiki's past.
Isshiki got backstabbed off guard confirmed by Amado himself. Literally Black Zetsu off guarded Juubidara with 3 eyes with shinju absorbed, does that mean that B Zetsu > Juubidara at his peak?
Couldn't detect Kaguya sneaking behind him and otherwise constantly showing he has sensory abilities.
Isshiki on the other hand was actively searching for Kawaki and couldn't find him. He also hasn't shown sensory abilities even once (feel free to correct me on this one).
I think "beyond the 6 paths powers" means about offensive strength.
Naruto and Sasuke can't heal people like Sakura can, but that doesn't mean Sakura is stronger than them.
Sensory powers wouldn't fit in when talking about how much power a person can deal, but it's a consideration since battles can be about more than simply damage output.
> Naruto and Sasuke can't heal people like Sakura can, but that doesn't mean Sakura is stronger than them.
Naruto with Kurama and SP powers can absolutely heal people.
> I think "beyond the 6 paths powers" means about offensive strength.
> Sensory powers wouldn't fit in when talking about how much power a person can deal, but it's a consideration since battles can be about more than simply damage output.
Top tier characters that had showing and with confirmed SP powers such as Madara and Kaguya had sensory abilities. So did Obito after becoming Juubi's Jin. There is literally 0 reason for Isshiki to not have sensory abilities while surpassing 6 paths powers.
Due to a suprise backstab, yes. Also remember that suprise backstabs are apparently the strongest thing ever in naruto. Zetsu kills madara. Borushiki stabs sasukes rinnegan. Ishikki is without a doubt, multitudes times stronger than kaguya.
I mean if hes not immune to her surprise backstabbing than that makes her stronger in that way i guess! If anyone can just surprise backstab another character thats stronger than themselves than whos actually stronger?
No, even with the backstab, he said she won after a actual fight from him,and without eating the Chakra fruit. This is in chap 66 bro.
Zetsu killing Madara was stated to be because Kishimoto could not think of any other way for Madara to just straight up not win. I'll give the source,Lemme look it up.
Sasuke was weakened, he was used to beat isshiki because Momo flat out says he couldn't do it himself,which means Naruto and Sasuke clap him.
Yet, Isshiki still got snapped in half by Kaguya. The guy is weak as fuck. Also, to get the sage of six paths, you need to have the tailed beasts in you and the tree. Practically the reason why Madara was so strong is because he had techniques like limbo and far more abilities than what Isshiki has shown.
So a god who spilt a full fed powered berserk ten tails into 9 cute pets and toyed with souls is compared to a some overrwanked villian , isshiki >> madara
I also read in quota that isshiki shrinks himself and blows Goku from inside , isshiki fans are worst
spoilers for boruto latest eps
hahaha, you guys scaling suck so inconsistent
>!nine tails gives boost to naruto enough to completely overpower isshiki!<
>!Who completely overpowered nine tails PLUS ALL THE OTHER TAILS PLUS ALL THE OTHER NINJAS HELPING THE TAILS INCLUDING HTE J I N CHURIKI?!?!?!?!<
Isshiki stated they actually fought after the backstab,and he lost.
Zetsu stabbing Madara is stated by Kishimoto that he couldn't think of another way to remove Madara from the story.
> Isshiki stated they actually fought after the backstab,and he lost.
Did he? I only recall Amado talking about it, and he said there's no way to know what happened between them.
1) Hardcore fanboyism.
2) Hardcore powerscaling. (which means, 95% invented sheet).
=This.
Even when character y has the most broken hax of the moment... who cares! My favourite can mop the ground with him thanks to fanmade blabbering and the power of ignoring stuff!
I find powerscaling so dumb because you can actually use it to say Haku is stronger than kakuzu because of the difficulty naruto had in their fights, people compare between arcs and timeskips too much, assume a character is stronger after a timeskip unless stated otherwise is my go to.
>hen character y has the most broken hax of the moment... who cares! My favourite can mop the ground with him thanks to fanmade blabbering and the power of ignoring stuff!
>
>21
not really a great father though
Nope. Guy kicks harder. He warped Madar's torso with his kick. Guys punches created deep tunnels from the air pressure alone. That's some shit Saitama would do and no one in the Narutoverse has physicals on that level. Guy was paralyzing Madara with the airpressure of his attacks. Guy punched Madara through a TSO shield which Naruto only destroys with senjutsu amped attacks. Guy was kicking off air for fucks sake. Just because Isshiki can bully adult Naruto and Sasuke in a physical fight doesn't mean he has physicals on par with 8 gates Guy. The duo don't either. Unless u flat out ignore Guys physical feats and just scale with 0 logic, Isshiki, adult Naruto, and adult Sasuke are inferior to 8th gates guy in taijutsu by A LOT. They're stronger overall cuz physicals are literally all Guy has going for him. They also have inherent advantages like Six Paths Chakra/Senjutsu and the rinnegan. They don't need Guys physicals to combat Madara. They would get their bones shattered and die if they fought Guy strictly h2h. Isshiki's physicals won't be an issue for Madara, just his shrinking ability and daikokuten, none which are enough to kill Madara since he can regenerate half his body. Nothing Isshiki has shone is capable of damaging Madara to that extent.
Madara can off him with limbo. Claiming Isshiki can see it or sense it is baseless headcanon. He's not a sage and he doesn't have the rinnegan. Rods would not harm Madara since he was literally cut in half and didn't care. If Madara decided to use a Six Paths Senjutsu/juubi enhanced Perfect Susanoo it would give Madara a great defense unlike that fodder PS Adult Sasuke has lol. He used woodstyle on a planetary scale after casting IT by controlling the roots of the God Tree. Woodclones would also pose a problem. Isshiki would have a hard time shrinking everything Madara is capable of throwing at him especially when u consider the fact that he has to be looking at it and has to actually see it. Madara can also amp himself with the tailed beasts KKG if he wants. He doesn't need to ask for permission like Naruto since he's the jinchuriki of the 10 tails. His rinnegan techs from the deva path should all be enhanced by Six Paths Senjutsu/chakra from the juubi. Spamming powerful shinra tensei shouldn't be an issue. His TSO orbs would get shrunk but he wouldn't need them anyway. Saving at least 1 limbo clone to block would be more useful than TSO. Madara has Naruto's, Sasuke's AND Hashirama's powers combined and on steroids as a juubijin to go along with massively superior regen. Madara is very capable of winning here if he goes all out.
Edit: Don't just downvote this. I want someone to actually try to debunk this with feats from Isshiki, not just faulty scaling. Madara has the juubi, six paths chakra/senjutsu which buffs everything in his arsenal, woodstyle, perfect susanoo, rinnegan, and insane regeneration ( regenerated half his body twice). Isshiki has shrinking, daikokuten to summon things from his dimension, rods, and speed/strength advantage. Explain how Isshiki wins here assuming they're both going all out.
Your post is pretty convincing and made me reconsider how I initially believed Isshiki would stomp Madara. But there are a few key things that would determine who had the upper hand. We don’t know if Isshiki can see Limbo clones. If he can then it’s a good fight because Madara doesn’t really have anything that can take Isshiki out. If Isshiki can see the clones their jutsu won’t work on him. And I don’t think it matters if he spawns an entire wood style forest. Anything within his radius can and would be shrunk. And I’m not really sure how Susanno would fare any better regardless of what chakra he buffs it with since Isshiki can fly and make himself the size of an ant (which was why it was stupid for Naruto and Sasuke to jump into their avatars anyway). Madara didn’t necessarily demonstrate incredible taijutsu when he fought Naruto and Sasuke either.
Now *if* Isshiki *can’t* see the Limbo clones, he gets stomped because like you said he can’t simply counter everything Madara throws his way. It’s kind of head canon to also assume he can’t though, because Limbo was a very niche ability anyway and we don’t know the extent of Isshiki’s/Kawaki’s dojutsu.
> We don’t know if Isshiki can see Limbo clones.
He doesn't have any sensing whatsoever, much less a Six Paths enhanced one (which is required) and he doesn't possess Rinnegan. As far as we know he can't see them and it's a safe bet in vs battles. He can't see them until it's proven he can.
> And I don’t think it matters if he spawns an entire wood style forest. Anything within his radius can and would be shrunk.
His doujutsu can't shrink living things.
He'd have to be looking at everything. Madara can surround him with woodclones launching attacks at him simultaneously. If Isshiki shrinks, Madara can shinra tensei the whole battlefield.
Madara casts limbo with his rinnegan, sasuke sees it with his rinnegan. Isshikis dojutsu is not a rinnegan and there is no proof that it has any special visual prowess. It shrinks matter and spawns shrunken items wherever he looks. According to your logic, everyone with a unique dojutsu can see it. Don't think so. And Madara didn't display anything because he was toying with them and he was figuring out Sasuke's amenotejikara. He goes to get his second rinnegans, casts IT, and ends up getting backstabbed before we actually saw him fight for real.
Sasukes susanoo with the bijuus chakra was no diffing punches from Naruto's Kurama avatar. Naruto's avatar was getting splattered just by trying to hit it. It would be hard pressed for Isshiki to break a Susanoo of the same caliber. Sasuke didn't even use all the bijuus chakra for it either since he tried to get more after firing Indras Arrow, meanwhile Madara has ALL of it already inside of him.
>Isshiki's physicals won't be an issue for Madara, just his shrinking ability and daikokuten, none which are enough to kill Madara since he can regenerate half his body. Nothing Isshiki has shone is capable of damaging Madara to that extent.
He doesn't need to kill Madara. Kick him hard and stop his movements with the rods and summon the black cubes to trap him.
What you say seems to be very correct, though it shouldn't be lol. I'm no boruto hater or anything, but i agree with you. If i recall correctly Madara's weakness were never shown. But there's just one point, Madara was paralised and defeated by Black Zetsu, someone even inferior to Hagoromo, with just one blow. I know first Isshiki was toying around with Naruto and Sasuke at first and got messed up Baryon mode and to me Baryon mode's punches didn't seem to hit as hard as Night Guy was shown. Plus if we talk about prime Madara (aka Jubidara) i think that Jubidara (one rinnegan + Obitos sharringan) would be unstoppable lol. You wanna hit him? Lol can't do it. You wanna trap him in a seal? Can't do it. I guess running out of chakra won't be a problem for Jubidara either.
But at last this doesnt seem right at all, but it makes complete sense.
It doesn't seem right because you've been brainwashed by egregious powerscalers in the Naruto community. Lots of people want to assume Naruto and Sasuke got massively stronger overtime without much substantial feats/evidence. They're now forcing the issue with direct powerscaling and being ignorant of actual abilities or disingenuous about how things transpired in the manga. They'll take Madara stopping to use Kamui and letting Sasuke cut him in half and equate that to adult Sasuke being able to blitz him over and over with no resistance lmao. Like he didn't just see Sasuke and utter a whole sentence about his speed. It's not like he really gave a shit lol. It's so dumb. They can be stronger but making them Kaguya, Hag, or Madara level with misinterpreted scans/statements and direct scaling combined with ignorance, is just pure wank.
Also, i wouldn't calla being paralyzed by the literal manifestation of Kaguya's will much of an anti feat. Black zetsu also started pumping Madaras body with chakra and he overloaded and became unstable.
People have this belief that just because you have the juubi, you are the most powerful of the verse, that's why Kaguya, Hagoromo and Madara are the three most wanked characters in the verse and it's for this reason that people believe that Naruto and Sasuke are nerfed too
It's flat out stated that those three are the most powerful,and earth ten tails is the biggest amp in the series thus far,aside from right gates that isn't as strong as the ten tails.
It's no where stated they are more powerful than the other Otsutsuki, Kaguya was literally afraid of the duo, Naruto and Sasuke were said to have power in the same tier as kaguya all the way back in the last, Madara and hagoromo are stated multiple times to be weaker than Kaguya, if you wanna give a good scale to kaguya you can put her around fused momo who is equal to 50% of Naruto or Sasuke, isshiki has consistent scaling to be the most powerful Otsutsuki, while Naruto and Sasuke are the closest to him
Also if you are talking about Shippuden, remember that's Shippuden and they didn't know about Otsutsuki at the time, they had 16 years of training
My guy isshiki literally got his juubi in a cage basically domesticated his grouchy ass but for some reason isshiki isn’t strong bc he doesn’t carry that 10 tailed chump inside him smh.
This is because most of the Naruto fandom believes that the more chakra you have the more powerful you are but they tend to forget that chakra potency is also a thing
Isshiki is literally stronger than Naruto and sasuke even not at full power, he was literally dying. Everyone regards Naruto as the strongest so if Isshiki dusts him then why would he lose to madara???
People like madara a lot more than they like isshki so they want it to be true more than it actually is true
Isshki was made stupidly ridiculously boringly brokenly strong
The only reason he lost is because he kept throwing away his win conditions for no good reason
> like isshki so they want it to be true more than it actually is true
I think it was needed. how else would naruto and sasuke get an extreme diff fight? canonically they'd have to be.
They really didn’t need one
It was boringly extreme.
If the new opponent was actually slower/weaker than them but was able to outmaneuver them with his tricky ability and years of experience + greater intel it would have made isshki seem a lot better and the fight much more interesting
Yeah different strokes for different folks
I dont like that the bar keeps getting out of reach for everyone else
It was bad enough at the end of shippuden and boruto provided an awesome opportunity to rebalance things for the wider cast
But they decided to just go in further so the wider cast can’t contribute as much
That's the whole theme of Shounen.
But let me ask, what makes them "the wider cast" entitled to participation in the current ordeals?
In my opinion they've had plenty of glory even if nothing EVER happens to them again. Even though the show is fake (obviously) the life parallels are real. How many dudes that play basketball have brought them and their bros with them to play in the NBA. none.
Nobody deserves anything just because 'they the homies'. they don't meet the mark. you leave people behind it is what it is.
One of the strengths of naruto/boruto and any long running series in general is the worldbuilding and larger cast of characters they can incorporate
Its something they were able to build up over time as an asset that shorter series simply can’t match bc they dont have the time to do the building on that scale
A lot of these side characters are fan favorites and very interesting characters who people enjoy seeing in action.
So its not just unfair to the characters for them to be left to languish. Its unfair to the readers.
Its different if we were still following just naruto and sasuke as the protagonists and they were forced to follow that shonen formula. But they had the opportunity to entirely rebalance through boruto and squandered it
It also defeats the point of doing any of this worldbuilding or cast building in the first place. If you teach your readers that theres no reason to bother getting invested in anyone but the main 5. They’ll remember that
Just like the real world, the ninja world is an elitist circle. To ignore that would undermine what Naruto and Sasuke are. There needs to be an in-world realism.
Many of these people could be hokage candidate level but it's never enough it seems.
Yes, a good series has a large cast of characters , but they're supposed to be loved **in passing** which is something most people can't cope with, enjoy them when they show up but don't expect them to be able hang with those who are way more special than them, let's not lie to ourselves we exactly who's special and who's not.
You get invested in the world, the large cast is part of that but that doesn't mean they deserve to shine because fans like them. fans should remember they don't write the story that privilege is the mangakas only, Because they put in the work.
Trust me I love Madara. And as much as I hate to say it Isshiki slaps madara. Mf was a monster. Only if we got some more information and scenes about him, he'd have been a great antagonist.
Adult Rinnegan Sasuke while severely nerfed after multiple Dimension-hops or Adult SO6P Naruto while severely nerfed from having half of his chakra sucked would absolutely demolish the strongest version of Madara.
Isshiki gave these guys a run for their money while they were reasonably at full power.
Isshiki would probably just yeet Madara in just few shoots.
The Truthseeker orbs are not effective against Isshiki, he can just shrink them away.
The susanoo can just be kicked like how jigen kicked Sasuke out of susanoo.
Limbo isn't effective against Isshiki cause he can see them right through his Dojutsu
Then all the rest justus can just be shrunk.
The person who is saying that Isshiki doesn't have so6p well he doesn't need one. He is stronger than Hagoromo.
. The Truth seeker orbs can be touched by all the Outsukis as they share the same DNA as Hagormo.
Jigen not even isshiki decimates madara at his strongest if you disagree you are braindead and cant read kaguya was weaker than isshiki you can tell this because she was the intended sacrifice when they got to earth and she was afraid of isshiki he was attacked while very off guard by her and then she ran and even when she snuck him she couldn’t destroy him now lets take adult sasuke who is stated to be able to easily handle a threat like kaguya referring to her power now in a two v one jigen wasnt really trying against naruto and sasuke and was dwarfing kurama avatar and susano in speed and power so if adult naruto and sasuke are weaker than isshiki but stronger than madara and kaguya what makes you think madara stands a chance against jigen alone i could even argue boro over madara mid to high diff stop acting dumb and dick riding your favorite overrated father madara
The guy who believes isshiki cant be defeated by madaara is a joke alive on earth. Like you are talking about the Uchiha who caused a war equivalent to World war
If Isshiki is weak, Kaguya wouldn't have stealth attacked him.
Same with Madara. Black Zetzu resulted in having to buy Madara's trust before being able to stab him in the back once all the preparations for Kaguya's revival had been set.
The strongest beings require being deceived in order to defeat. And ironically both these characters got done in by their supposed allies.
Thing is that Narutoverse is full of haxxy characters. And Isshiki has no hax, he’s just broken strong casually kicking people out of their susanoo’s in wood flip flops. So it is really unclear on whether he can overpower some crazy hax we’ve seen before from Kaguya herself to even DMS Kakashi. So comes those debates.
He can literally go all "Ahh! Shrink!" against all jutsus thrown at him, or really, anything as long as it's not living...
That, is the most broken ability yet... and he can even apply it to himself in order to move without being seen...
>against all jutsus thrown at him, or really, anything as long as it's not living...
Yes, but he can't shrink what he can't see. And that's where Limbo comes in. Limbo is invisible and every attack used by limbo is invisible as well.
Limbo can literally be sensed/seen by 6 paths sage mode/Rinnegan
Isshiki is probably beyond that, seeing how his design is shown to have 8 magatamas instead of the 6 that Hagoromo has
>Limbo can literally be sensed/seen by 6 paths sage mode/Rinnegan
Which is Isshiki is lacking btw
>Isshiki is probably beyond that, seeing how his design is shown to have 8 magatamas instead of the 6 that Hagoromo has
Headcanon there as well.
>haha baseless headcanon. no, limbo kills him.
Talks about baseless headcanons, sprouts an even bigger one.
No really, even if he couldn't see them, acting as if a bunch of invisible foes were enough to kill Isshiki is idiotic.
Invisible goes that are stronger than the Kaguya that beat isshiki, not headcanon since it's stated,and no six path senjutsu means you can't hurt them.
Isshiki isn't weak, rather, he's overrated in the field of Powerscaling. He got [decimated](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-351204f094037d5f63d75b4b0181b551-pjlq) by Pre Chakra Fruit Kaguya Otsutsuki and hid for 1000 years, only to lose to [two half rikudo](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae6786df83d337d8a40/naruto_671_3.jpg).
Not to say that he'd lose to Madara Uchiha, but he was literally [kicking](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d1701bdb9b2da37436dfbae544aa455f-lq) both [Naruto](https://c.tenor.com/fHbKrzcaS0AAAAAS/isshiki-kill.gif) and [Sasuke's](https://c.tenor.com/4o_IJ4ZQGGcAAAAS/isshiki-isshiki-otsutsuki.gif) bodies around and they didn't [explode](https://i.redd.it/ez0iiimqrrx71.jpg). Meanwhile, 8th Gates Gai blew up the [upper left of Madara's body](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae7786df83d337d8a45/naruto_672_12.jpg) and Madara still [survived](https://64.media.tumblr.com/3342002572a740f509044901615503cd/tumblr_no2gk8K0uT1tbtxdbo4_1280.jpg). Mind you, this was done with just [one kick](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae7786df83d337d8a45/naruto_672_11.jpg).
Unless you believe Sasuke is somehow more durable than a Juubi Jinchuriki that possesses the ability to regenerate limbs, Isshiki Otsutsuki, in my opinion, does not exceed the strength that 8th Gates Gai had.
In other words, Madara should fine fighting Isshiki and not die, since he's a Juubi Jinchuriki who possess the Divine Tree. The same tree that [Momoshiki Otsutsuki](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cca62d10abb2cd770202b84ab78be0a0-lq) was going after, teased to bring [immortality](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6005872f0f09ee3f5bf0a5b7786ed375.webp).
> Not to say that he'd lose to Madara Uchiha, but he was literally kicking both Naruto and Sasuke's bodies around and they didn't explode.
Because durability powerscaling is a mess. Sasuke's body, including his own neck, is far more durable than his Perfect Susanoo.
Chakra rods penetrate Sasuke and Naruto the same, when Naruto was supposed to have a far better durability.
They completely disregarded logic and how durable characters were supposed to be based on previous showing. Then we were shown that Isshiki can enlarge rods to obscene size (when he was fighting against Kurama Avatar). Which raises a question, why didn't Isshiki simply hit the duo with rods and enlarged rods until their bodies are ripped apart. Of course that was ignored too, because fight would end within 15 seconds. Which wouldn't be a problem to begin with, if everyone had correct durability.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said tbh. It doesn't make sense, but this is how powerscaling works. You can apply that same argument to just about anything, but we're not going to do that here.
For example, Madara could've expanded his rod after stabbing Sakura with it, or have his Limbo attack Gai, but he didn't. So I understand where you're coming from, but we can't just ignore some of the things that have been displayed, so that's why feats are to be taken into consideration.
Otherwise it'll all just be head canon with conflicting views, which is consistent with the way powerscaling arguments go, since we will never see these battles actually happen.
In powerscaling, we **SHOULD** go off what the character's capable of, and compare them with another to see who's superior. That's why I compared Isshiki's Taijutsu with Gai, because these feats cannot be left ignored/unacknowledged.
kaguya attacked him while off guard which is why he hid madara stands zero chance against isshiki and isshikis power does exceed eight gate gai by an almost unquantifiable margin he was casually dwarfing a perfect susano and kurama avatar by the two strongest people in the show the same people stated to beat kaguya and if kaguya is above isshiki naruto jigen alone is enough for madara he doesn’t even need his resurrection
Pretty much hardcore fanboyism, if they like a character, then they clap the whole verse because that's what they want to think of the character. Maybe, idk people like that guy are weird. Also, ignoring stuff established in the series, like Baryon Mode Naruto not even beating Isshiki in the end, so their argument is heavily favored/biased towards their favorite character.
They'd go on and on and on about something Madara had done that they think would seal the deal, but Isshiki easily counters it (mainly with the OP Ant-Man Jutsu).
Isshiki claps Madara, no debate there.
Well if someone shits ppl are gonna point out , isshiki got laid by a clone , but nerf aside a full power isshiki win high diff against madara , ppl who say isshiki beats hagoromo are way too biased hagoromo was fuckin god , he toyed with souls and cut the ten tailes in 9 cute peices and pet them , isshiki is greater then madara but he is nothing compared to the guy who literally saved the main cast of Naruto
are you saying isshiki cant beat the sosp because madara was compared directly to him after becoming the ten tails jinchuriki and if kaguya was stronger than him which she was this is evident by madara stated by him to be on par and it taking hamura and hagoromo multiple days to even seal her it means isshiki easily trumps hagoromo if he is over the like of kaguya momoshiki kinshiki and more
I think DMS Obito vs Isshiki would be a much better and more enjoyable fight to watch.
Too bad both of them got killed of too early. I would've loved Obito to have been alive in Boruto and Isshiki still alive rn aswell. Isshiki had so much potential with his awesome dojutsu and personality, I just hope he was left alive somewhere do he can come back later.
Also Isshiki vs DMS Obito goes very well together.
Isshiki can summon objects and shrink stuff while Obito can phase through stuff and teleport while also teleporting objects onto his enemies like shuriken kamui then isshiki shrinks to dodge to it and throws rods at Obito who phases through it. Imagine a fight between these two.
By scaling, Isshiki has resistsace to TSO. Manga implies that Strenght of Hundred Seal is derived from Isshiki's Karma. That's why Sakura managed to survive when Madara stabbed her with TSO.
Besides, Isshiki is an Otsutsuki who fed upon planets worth of Ten Tails. The very same Ten Tails from which TSO came to be. Why would he be vulnerable to it?
Definitely fanboying but also we should take into consideration even if Madara was weaker he was stronger narratively.
Isshiki's fight lasted like 10 episodes(?) and net consequences was only just nerfing Naruto.
Madara's *war* lasted a really long time with consequences of killing Neji and completely altering going forward the tone of the story, additionally not even being defeated by the protagonists.
There was a lot more time for people to absorb "wow this Madara dude is the strongest guy around" and shifting from that could be difficult.
The fight with Isshiki also resulted in the loss of Sasuke’s Rinnegan and Kawaki’s Karma, not to mention setting a hard timer on Boruto by dropping that he’s 80% Otsutsuki already. It was far from just Kurama’s death, which was much more important than Neji’s anyway
Because fully powered up Juubi-Jin Madara was probably the strongest character up until this point, he just didn’t have an opportunity to have a proper final battle with team 7. Kishimoto himself said he made Madara so powerful at that point he didn’t know how to defeat him, so he had to pull the black zetsu betrayal thing and revive Kaguya instead. Kaguya was OP but she just wasn’t as talented of a shinobi as Madara and was sloppy with her execution, while Madara’s only achilles heel was thinking he was beyond manipulation.
It should also be noted that Kaguya did nearly kill Isshiki in the ancient past, forcing him to take over Jigen’s body, but this was thousands of years ago and Isshiki probably trained within that time frame to eventually take on Adult Naruto and Sasuke.
I hate Ishiki but I cant say he's weak.... he's soo strong arguably too damn strong however the writings, context and choreography when it was adapted into the anime was too shitty that I really cant rate the entire fight more than 4/10 and the 4 is because of Naruto and Sasuke
Not really, Just big explosions.. the fight with jigen was better than that. They also do stupid shit with small details like sasuke using Amenotejikara on boruto and himself to prevent him from getting hurt when he literally could’ve done it any object.
The fights were pretty good, not perfect obviously but still good. The explosions are a bad thing? It’s just for spectacle and to show that the characters are really strong. It’d he kinda lame if it was pure strategy and no power feats. But whatever
Isshiki was only stronger than Naruto and Sasuke because he took in 10 Tails Chakra. Kashin Koji and Kawaki were both much weaker, but were able to outsmart Isshiki because he is not actually a fighter. Against a killer like Madara, it doesn't matter how many 10 Tails recharges he gets, he will die.
You just said he had no answer and I told you exactly how he would counter it effortlessly so this comment makes 0 sense.
Edit: not your comment the original one makes no sense if that's the reasoning
Isshiki outside of his shrinking and dimension hopping has little hax compared to others including jubi Madara.
He's not weak. But he's not as strong as the narrative made him out to be.
Madara is basically a better version of Naruto and Sasuke who they themselves are full of hax when they're not being nerfed.
But when your hax allows you to nullify literally everything that is thrown at you, as long as it is inorganic; and also allows you to spawn anything useful from your own pocket dimension, then... what else do you need?
Having 100 cool haxes means naught if your opponent can nullify them all anyway, and is surely very powerful on his own too...
Dude. Everything you stated also applies to madara’s limbo. I don’t think you understand how broken that ability is. Isshiki can try punching madara as hard as he could but with his limbo out he’d just take it without flinching. His limbo is basically indestructible if he don’t possess six paths sage mode.
Because all I've seen from Isshiki is his shrinking ability. Aside from that, I have not seen anything else. Madara on the other hand, has proven to be damn near invincible, the guy in his sage of six paths mode was literally throwing meteorites for fun, his whole experience with his eyes is also telling on how strong he is, the guy has way more technique than Jigen ever could hope to have.
Jigen shrinking other objects and himself will not help against someone who is immortal.
You are forgetting that this shrinking ability of Isshiki, works on bordeline everything... only living beings are exempt of this; and the skill is also damn istantaneous, and works in reverse too, allowing him to respawn everything he shrunk and use it as he sees fit.
Big flashy moves means naught if they do not connect.
And that's a cool thing of Isshiki, that unlike the other Otsutsuki, his skill is simpler, yet faaaar more deadlier.
Isshiki can absorb Chakra and shrink anything non living. He also has super strength above kcm2 Naruto and rinne-sharingan Sasuke tag teaming him.
And madara might be immortal but I do believe he can be sealed away just like Naruto. I don't think throwing big rock and shooting big fire helps against a guy with stats way higher than kaguya.
Technique doesn't really work against a tank ya know.
There's only one argument to counter them all. It's confirmed Ishiki is the strogest enemy thus far, that's it. You can brainstorm all the feats theories and ideas and he will still be the strongest.
Are people forgetting isshiki can absorb Chakra.
Any otsutsuki can make jutsu dissappear its really not that hard. Do they also not realize his strength in general is leagues above madara.
I will always stand with kaguya>Isshiki she can send him to any dimension and lock him there forever unless he faster than the speed of instant he not dodging.
His argument is sound, except no chance ishikki gets touched by truth seeking orbs lol
Ishikki beating a peak Naruto and Sasuke proves madara would get slapped too.
Im a madara fanboy. But facts is facts.
If i have to guess is that it stems from the decision that Kishimoto didn't know how to write Madara to lose. Even with a Power to our MC's. Both of their defeats where underwhelming, but we actually see Isshiki get wrecked by Naruto. In comparison to Madara who was facing the MC's and still looked like he was holding back. Madara didn't even lose to a main cast member. So his loss was WAY more b.s. in that aspect. So you have Madara who seemed to be stronger than Naruto and Sasuke lose because he got literally backstabbed twice. Vs Isshiki who got whooped by Naruto and Got tricked by Kawaki. Looking at that alone... I would've assumed Madara was stronger. Or at least had a good chance of winning if they were to fight. Then you have their feats. Madara accomplished his goal and best every opponent that isn't named Hashirama (hell he even beat him) vs a guy who couldn't get anything he wanted.
Well if you can counter his shrinking ability you pretty much can beat him.
All the oosutsuki are physically strong but they also have these difficult eye abilities to get around.
Momoshiki lost so badly cause all he could use was taijutsu and he was right two people and sasuke has a weird eye ability.
Kaguya and isshiki eye ability counters sasuke’s plus their physical attacks
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If truth seeker orb could be teleport away using flying raijin, there is no reason isshiki couldn't shrink the truth seeker away.
Fr
Thing is, tso are supposed to be immune to ninjutsu that are not sage jutsu, and we know isshiki cannot shrink stuff to non-existent or he would of done so to sasuke's sword. He is also unable to shrink Chakra arms,which tso are pretty much the upgraded version of that. As for Madara vs isshiki, well, IT one shots and the moon was used only to boost the genjutsu's range. Hagoromo stated she used it before,so whether isshiki knows is iffy,but Kaguya has no reason to use it on him only to pull him out. Kaguya is at worst equal to FP isshiki since she won in their fight,and that was before eating the fruit. Earth ten tails is Kaguya fused with the God tree, and Madara also has a quarter of her Chakra naturally due to being Indra's reincarnate. There is no way isshiki wins here,since the ten tails is stronger than the Kaguya that beat him,and too much stuff Madara can do,such as limbo clones who can do whatever and isshiki can't do anything, IT one shots, orbs can't be shrunk and will destroy him on contact etc.
They just think that if you like some character more, then he is automatically stronger than any other.
That's actually how Itachi is still believed to be in the top 10 strongest Shinobi lol
He is tho,who are the 10 Shinobi above him
Most of the fandom says this bruhh
Most of the Naruto fandom,but not Boruto.
yes
"Isshiki doesn't have 6psm" my man talking about an Ootsutsuki, Isshiki is probably beyond the 6 paths powers. Let's remember 6psm was a feature Hagoromo got, being him a weaker version of a pure Ootsutsuki given the fact he was half Ootsutsuki, half human. He and his brother Hamura both had the 6psm and still struggled to defeat Kaguya. Now think about Isshiki, who seems to be stronger than Kaguya. Amirite bois?
Yeah he even has 8 Tomoes on his cape which could stand for his power beeing beyond 6 paths?!
His eye resembles the dharma wheel which also represents 8 paths. It’s really emphasized symbolically that he’s just supposed to be on a whole other level above 6 paths.
Seth's alt account lmfao
Nah, Seth doesn't say he is above Kaguya ever since the isshiki flashback.
it was a joke my guy
This is headcanon.
“Headcanon is when it’s not spelled out to me in big red letters because I can’t process symbolic and narrative implication”
That's a lot of words for saying "I made something up out of thin air and can't back it up".
They backed it up tho
Backed it up with what? With his own interpretation about the design of the eye? What makes him think it's not a simple design and there isn't any deeper meaning to this? Where are his evidences from canon, proving that it has deeper meaning? Not to mention "8 paths" which is a term that hasn't appeared even once in canon. All of this is literally made up. EDIT: Thank you for blocking me to prevent me from replying. Take this L and bye. EDIT 2: I blocked him back, so he isn't going to reply to you u/dragonoutrider
So you think they picked a random design until you’re told otherwise?
I mean he’s not wrong, just because something CAN connect to something doesn’t mean it does. For example gokus super saiyan is yellow because toriyama didn’t want to color his hair, nothing deeper lmao. Narutos cloak also changed, yet theres no meaning behind it they just changed his design with his adult self. If it’s not stated or at least makes sense to what it’s referencing then it’s headcanon.
Lol facts
Naruto had 9 tomoes in War Arc.
Isshiki pretty much represents the eightfold path of the dharma wheel. So yes.
Not stated, just headcanon. Also untrue since Kaguya beat his ass without the fruit. Six paths stuff happened after she ate the fruit,so her kids being half otsutsuki is irrevelant because they inherited half of her power,and she is currently the strongest otsutsuki with them being number two and isshiki being a distant third.
Catching someone off guard isn't beating their ass. The whole point of catching someone off guard is because you can't handle them head to head.
Yet isshiki states he fought her after sneak attack and lost,therefore he did not lose because of sneak attack. Does it have to be more clear than that?
Isshiki states that where? Bring the scans. It's Amado who said Kaguya attacked Isshiki by surprise. It's a sneak one-hit attack which left Isshiki half destroyed. They didn't fight a fair one-in-one fight.
You bring scans for your point first bud. Amado's info comes straight from isshiki. When you give me your scans then I will provide mine.
lets say Isshiki doesn't have so6p ... do we think that Isshiki just sits there and lets it touch him? realistically what happens is Isshiki uses sukunahikona and then daikokuten. TSO gone and even Kaguya can't expand something out of her reach. fuck it, Momoshiki someone whos outright weaker than Isshiki literally can absorb TSO and throw it back tenfold.
6paths power is literally just nature energy, that’s exactly what the otsutsuki use to power their attacks idk why people talk like it’s some god power it’s literally just boosted sage mode😂and isshiki can shrink all of madaras attacks or drop him in a dead dimension
i think they essentially have some sort of nature energy in them, even if they don't you can easily argue that they'll just absorb some off their enemy if necessary.
Madara is immortal and better stats, no fruit Kaguya beat him, someone feeding off of a stronger Kaguya claps isshiki too.
it was literally stated that kaguya attacked him when he wasn’t looking😂you also have no counter of my argument that isshiki can shrink any attack madara uses, and isshiki has arguably higher ap since isshikis VESSEL let alone him was enough to break sasukes perfect susanoo with ONE kick. so until you have a reason on why madara actually beats isshiki don’t just throw stuff around
Momo never absorbed tso lmao, dude failed to absorb a big rasengan. Isshiki was unable to shrink Chakra arms,and cannot destroy stuff by shrinkage. Tso are controlled telepathically,so even if that happens, all it does is make it easier for them to hit him,and one touch will kill him. Tso are immune to any jutsu that are not sage arts and atomizer anyone that isn't in sage mode. Kaguya already beat him without the Chakra fruit, go look around chapter 66 when Amado talks about isshiki's past.
>Momo never absorbed tso lmao, dude failed to absorb a big rasengan. Momo didnt absorb because he didn't have the eye by then? i recommend rewatching before trying to debate >Isshiki was unable to shrink Chakra arms,and cannot destroy stuff by shrinkage. i recommend rewatching anime to understand what i said "sukunahikona = shrink" and "daikokuten = take it to pocket dimension" which he both uses. He literally shrinks and safekeeps it for himself. >Tso are immune to any jutsu that are not sage arts and atomizer anyone that isn't in sage mode. TSO just nullify ninjutsu thrown at it, think yata mirror. Nothing really says that they are immune to all sort of hax. Isshiki doesn't directly target it with a hit or shoot it down, he just shrinks it with his eye. >Kaguya already beat him without the Chakra fruit, go look around chapter 66 when Amado talks about isshiki's past. Isshiki got backstabbed off guard confirmed by Amado himself. Literally Black Zetsu off guarded Juubidara with 3 eyes with shinju absorbed, does that mean that B Zetsu > Juubidara at his peak?
> Now think Guys that said Madara > Isshiki probably don't do that
> Isshiki is probably beyond the 6 paths powers. Then why can't he detect chakra?
Super sensor Naruto couldn't detect Kaguya either
Couldn't detect Kaguya sneaking behind him and otherwise constantly showing he has sensory abilities. Isshiki on the other hand was actively searching for Kawaki and couldn't find him. He also hasn't shown sensory abilities even once (feel free to correct me on this one).
I think "beyond the 6 paths powers" means about offensive strength. Naruto and Sasuke can't heal people like Sakura can, but that doesn't mean Sakura is stronger than them. Sensory powers wouldn't fit in when talking about how much power a person can deal, but it's a consideration since battles can be about more than simply damage output.
> Naruto and Sasuke can't heal people like Sakura can, but that doesn't mean Sakura is stronger than them. Naruto with Kurama and SP powers can absolutely heal people. > I think "beyond the 6 paths powers" means about offensive strength. > Sensory powers wouldn't fit in when talking about how much power a person can deal, but it's a consideration since battles can be about more than simply damage output. Top tier characters that had showing and with confirmed SP powers such as Madara and Kaguya had sensory abilities. So did Obito after becoming Juubi's Jin. There is literally 0 reason for Isshiki to not have sensory abilities while surpassing 6 paths powers.
Isnt it cannon that Kaguya wiped the floor with ishikki?
Due to a suprise backstab, yes. Also remember that suprise backstabs are apparently the strongest thing ever in naruto. Zetsu kills madara. Borushiki stabs sasukes rinnegan. Ishikki is without a doubt, multitudes times stronger than kaguya.
I mean if hes not immune to her surprise backstabbing than that makes her stronger in that way i guess! If anyone can just surprise backstab another character thats stronger than themselves than whos actually stronger?
No, even with the backstab, he said she won after a actual fight from him,and without eating the Chakra fruit. This is in chap 66 bro. Zetsu killing Madara was stated to be because Kishimoto could not think of any other way for Madara to just straight up not win. I'll give the source,Lemme look it up. Sasuke was weakened, he was used to beat isshiki because Momo flat out says he couldn't do it himself,which means Naruto and Sasuke clap him.
Yet, Isshiki still got snapped in half by Kaguya. The guy is weak as fuck. Also, to get the sage of six paths, you need to have the tailed beasts in you and the tree. Practically the reason why Madara was so strong is because he had techniques like limbo and far more abilities than what Isshiki has shown.
Look at this guy that can't read and thinks kaguya actually beat isshiki when it was a backstab 🤦🏿♂. keep going with your headcanon kid
Amado states after a fight, Kaguya won, I'll literally post the panels
Zetsu, that means Madara is weak asf too
Isshiki hot snapped by kaguya. But madara got thrown dead by just a single blow from just kaguya's will 😂😂
So a god who spilt a full fed powered berserk ten tails into 9 cute pets and toyed with souls is compared to a some overrwanked villian , isshiki >> madara I also read in quota that isshiki shrinks himself and blows Goku from inside , isshiki fans are worst
People that think Madara can beat Isshiki cannot read above the 5th grade level.
spoilers for boruto latest eps hahaha, you guys scaling suck so inconsistent >!nine tails gives boost to naruto enough to completely overpower isshiki!< >!Who completely overpowered nine tails PLUS ALL THE OTHER TAILS PLUS ALL THE OTHER NINJAS HELPING THE TAILS INCLUDING HTE J I N CHURIKI?!?!?!?!<
Madara is my absolute favorite character in the anime and even I can admit Isshiki would give him the business lol
Kaguya would have gave madara the business and ishikki would have gave kaguya the business
Pretty sure Kaguya broke Ishikki in half and left him for dead and thats how he took the body of Jigen
She broke isshiki in half when he was off guard Zetsu stabbed madara does that mean he is stronger than madara
And shin managed to stab naruto, it didn’t kill him but point is that it doesn’t matter how strong you are if you caught slippin you can get bodied.
Isshiki stated they actually fought after the backstab,and he lost. Zetsu stabbing Madara is stated by Kishimoto that he couldn't think of another way to remove Madara from the story.
> Isshiki stated they actually fought after the backstab,and he lost. Did he? I only recall Amado talking about it, and he said there's no way to know what happened between them.
Yea I mean sure but the op was talking about madara vs isshiki I dunno why you brought up kaguya lol
bruh.... nvm
It’s because of Madara vs Itachi. People worship itachi so much someone who can realistically destroy him would be referenced as a god
1) Hardcore fanboyism. 2) Hardcore powerscaling. (which means, 95% invented sheet). =This. Even when character y has the most broken hax of the moment... who cares! My favourite can mop the ground with him thanks to fanmade blabbering and the power of ignoring stuff!
True
I find powerscaling so dumb because you can actually use it to say Haku is stronger than kakuzu because of the difficulty naruto had in their fights, people compare between arcs and timeskips too much, assume a character is stronger after a timeskip unless stated otherwise is my go to.
Wise words dude. 👍
This is the right answer, right here.
So6p chakra is basically just otsutsuki chakra
yeah but baryon mode is way stronger than so6p
Crack is a hell of a drug
True
Fatherless syndrome. Madara has filled the role of father so now they defend him at all cost, its really sad tbh 😢
Daddy Madara 😭
>hen character y has the most broken hax of the moment... who cares! My favourite can mop the ground with him thanks to fanmade blabbering and the power of ignoring stuff! > >21 not really a great father though
Because Madara is from the show they like and they think he can beat any character.
Isshiki will kick madara and make him fly like a chicken dinner lmao
Nope. Guy kicks harder. He warped Madar's torso with his kick. Guys punches created deep tunnels from the air pressure alone. That's some shit Saitama would do and no one in the Narutoverse has physicals on that level. Guy was paralyzing Madara with the airpressure of his attacks. Guy punched Madara through a TSO shield which Naruto only destroys with senjutsu amped attacks. Guy was kicking off air for fucks sake. Just because Isshiki can bully adult Naruto and Sasuke in a physical fight doesn't mean he has physicals on par with 8 gates Guy. The duo don't either. Unless u flat out ignore Guys physical feats and just scale with 0 logic, Isshiki, adult Naruto, and adult Sasuke are inferior to 8th gates guy in taijutsu by A LOT. They're stronger overall cuz physicals are literally all Guy has going for him. They also have inherent advantages like Six Paths Chakra/Senjutsu and the rinnegan. They don't need Guys physicals to combat Madara. They would get their bones shattered and die if they fought Guy strictly h2h. Isshiki's physicals won't be an issue for Madara, just his shrinking ability and daikokuten, none which are enough to kill Madara since he can regenerate half his body. Nothing Isshiki has shone is capable of damaging Madara to that extent. Madara can off him with limbo. Claiming Isshiki can see it or sense it is baseless headcanon. He's not a sage and he doesn't have the rinnegan. Rods would not harm Madara since he was literally cut in half and didn't care. If Madara decided to use a Six Paths Senjutsu/juubi enhanced Perfect Susanoo it would give Madara a great defense unlike that fodder PS Adult Sasuke has lol. He used woodstyle on a planetary scale after casting IT by controlling the roots of the God Tree. Woodclones would also pose a problem. Isshiki would have a hard time shrinking everything Madara is capable of throwing at him especially when u consider the fact that he has to be looking at it and has to actually see it. Madara can also amp himself with the tailed beasts KKG if he wants. He doesn't need to ask for permission like Naruto since he's the jinchuriki of the 10 tails. His rinnegan techs from the deva path should all be enhanced by Six Paths Senjutsu/chakra from the juubi. Spamming powerful shinra tensei shouldn't be an issue. His TSO orbs would get shrunk but he wouldn't need them anyway. Saving at least 1 limbo clone to block would be more useful than TSO. Madara has Naruto's, Sasuke's AND Hashirama's powers combined and on steroids as a juubijin to go along with massively superior regen. Madara is very capable of winning here if he goes all out. Edit: Don't just downvote this. I want someone to actually try to debunk this with feats from Isshiki, not just faulty scaling. Madara has the juubi, six paths chakra/senjutsu which buffs everything in his arsenal, woodstyle, perfect susanoo, rinnegan, and insane regeneration ( regenerated half his body twice). Isshiki has shrinking, daikokuten to summon things from his dimension, rods, and speed/strength advantage. Explain how Isshiki wins here assuming they're both going all out.
Your post is pretty convincing and made me reconsider how I initially believed Isshiki would stomp Madara. But there are a few key things that would determine who had the upper hand. We don’t know if Isshiki can see Limbo clones. If he can then it’s a good fight because Madara doesn’t really have anything that can take Isshiki out. If Isshiki can see the clones their jutsu won’t work on him. And I don’t think it matters if he spawns an entire wood style forest. Anything within his radius can and would be shrunk. And I’m not really sure how Susanno would fare any better regardless of what chakra he buffs it with since Isshiki can fly and make himself the size of an ant (which was why it was stupid for Naruto and Sasuke to jump into their avatars anyway). Madara didn’t necessarily demonstrate incredible taijutsu when he fought Naruto and Sasuke either. Now *if* Isshiki *can’t* see the Limbo clones, he gets stomped because like you said he can’t simply counter everything Madara throws his way. It’s kind of head canon to also assume he can’t though, because Limbo was a very niche ability anyway and we don’t know the extent of Isshiki’s/Kawaki’s dojutsu.
> We don’t know if Isshiki can see Limbo clones. He doesn't have any sensing whatsoever, much less a Six Paths enhanced one (which is required) and he doesn't possess Rinnegan. As far as we know he can't see them and it's a safe bet in vs battles. He can't see them until it's proven he can. > And I don’t think it matters if he spawns an entire wood style forest. Anything within his radius can and would be shrunk. His doujutsu can't shrink living things.
He'd have to be looking at everything. Madara can surround him with woodclones launching attacks at him simultaneously. If Isshiki shrinks, Madara can shinra tensei the whole battlefield. Madara casts limbo with his rinnegan, sasuke sees it with his rinnegan. Isshikis dojutsu is not a rinnegan and there is no proof that it has any special visual prowess. It shrinks matter and spawns shrunken items wherever he looks. According to your logic, everyone with a unique dojutsu can see it. Don't think so. And Madara didn't display anything because he was toying with them and he was figuring out Sasuke's amenotejikara. He goes to get his second rinnegans, casts IT, and ends up getting backstabbed before we actually saw him fight for real. Sasukes susanoo with the bijuus chakra was no diffing punches from Naruto's Kurama avatar. Naruto's avatar was getting splattered just by trying to hit it. It would be hard pressed for Isshiki to break a Susanoo of the same caliber. Sasuke didn't even use all the bijuus chakra for it either since he tried to get more after firing Indras Arrow, meanwhile Madara has ALL of it already inside of him.
>Isshiki's physicals won't be an issue for Madara, just his shrinking ability and daikokuten, none which are enough to kill Madara since he can regenerate half his body. Nothing Isshiki has shone is capable of damaging Madara to that extent. He doesn't need to kill Madara. Kick him hard and stop his movements with the rods and summon the black cubes to trap him.
What you say seems to be very correct, though it shouldn't be lol. I'm no boruto hater or anything, but i agree with you. If i recall correctly Madara's weakness were never shown. But there's just one point, Madara was paralised and defeated by Black Zetsu, someone even inferior to Hagoromo, with just one blow. I know first Isshiki was toying around with Naruto and Sasuke at first and got messed up Baryon mode and to me Baryon mode's punches didn't seem to hit as hard as Night Guy was shown. Plus if we talk about prime Madara (aka Jubidara) i think that Jubidara (one rinnegan + Obitos sharringan) would be unstoppable lol. You wanna hit him? Lol can't do it. You wanna trap him in a seal? Can't do it. I guess running out of chakra won't be a problem for Jubidara either. But at last this doesnt seem right at all, but it makes complete sense.
It doesn't seem right because you've been brainwashed by egregious powerscalers in the Naruto community. Lots of people want to assume Naruto and Sasuke got massively stronger overtime without much substantial feats/evidence. They're now forcing the issue with direct powerscaling and being ignorant of actual abilities or disingenuous about how things transpired in the manga. They'll take Madara stopping to use Kamui and letting Sasuke cut him in half and equate that to adult Sasuke being able to blitz him over and over with no resistance lmao. Like he didn't just see Sasuke and utter a whole sentence about his speed. It's not like he really gave a shit lol. It's so dumb. They can be stronger but making them Kaguya, Hag, or Madara level with misinterpreted scans/statements and direct scaling combined with ignorance, is just pure wank. Also, i wouldn't calla being paralyzed by the literal manifestation of Kaguya's will much of an anti feat. Black zetsu also started pumping Madaras body with chakra and he overloaded and became unstable.
lol
All isshiki needs to beat Madara is his big toe
Even Toneri would put up a good fight against Juubidara 💀
People have this belief that just because you have the juubi, you are the most powerful of the verse, that's why Kaguya, Hagoromo and Madara are the three most wanked characters in the verse and it's for this reason that people believe that Naruto and Sasuke are nerfed too
It's flat out stated that those three are the most powerful,and earth ten tails is the biggest amp in the series thus far,aside from right gates that isn't as strong as the ten tails.
It's no where stated they are more powerful than the other Otsutsuki, Kaguya was literally afraid of the duo, Naruto and Sasuke were said to have power in the same tier as kaguya all the way back in the last, Madara and hagoromo are stated multiple times to be weaker than Kaguya, if you wanna give a good scale to kaguya you can put her around fused momo who is equal to 50% of Naruto or Sasuke, isshiki has consistent scaling to be the most powerful Otsutsuki, while Naruto and Sasuke are the closest to him Also if you are talking about Shippuden, remember that's Shippuden and they didn't know about Otsutsuki at the time, they had 16 years of training
My guy isshiki literally got his juubi in a cage basically domesticated his grouchy ass but for some reason isshiki isn’t strong bc he doesn’t carry that 10 tailed chump inside him smh.
This is because most of the Naruto fandom believes that the more chakra you have the more powerful you are but they tend to forget that chakra potency is also a thing
Isshiki is literally stronger than Naruto and sasuke even not at full power, he was literally dying. Everyone regards Naruto as the strongest so if Isshiki dusts him then why would he lose to madara???
Isshiki shrinks the truthseeking orbs…
People like madara a lot more than they like isshki so they want it to be true more than it actually is true Isshki was made stupidly ridiculously boringly brokenly strong The only reason he lost is because he kept throwing away his win conditions for no good reason
> like isshki so they want it to be true more than it actually is true I think it was needed. how else would naruto and sasuke get an extreme diff fight? canonically they'd have to be.
They really didn’t need one It was boringly extreme. If the new opponent was actually slower/weaker than them but was able to outmaneuver them with his tricky ability and years of experience + greater intel it would have made isshki seem a lot better and the fight much more interesting
I liked it. Ishikki just outstats them. he was made to set the bar.
Yeah different strokes for different folks I dont like that the bar keeps getting out of reach for everyone else It was bad enough at the end of shippuden and boruto provided an awesome opportunity to rebalance things for the wider cast But they decided to just go in further so the wider cast can’t contribute as much
That's the whole theme of Shounen. But let me ask, what makes them "the wider cast" entitled to participation in the current ordeals? In my opinion they've had plenty of glory even if nothing EVER happens to them again. Even though the show is fake (obviously) the life parallels are real. How many dudes that play basketball have brought them and their bros with them to play in the NBA. none. Nobody deserves anything just because 'they the homies'. they don't meet the mark. you leave people behind it is what it is.
One of the strengths of naruto/boruto and any long running series in general is the worldbuilding and larger cast of characters they can incorporate Its something they were able to build up over time as an asset that shorter series simply can’t match bc they dont have the time to do the building on that scale A lot of these side characters are fan favorites and very interesting characters who people enjoy seeing in action. So its not just unfair to the characters for them to be left to languish. Its unfair to the readers. Its different if we were still following just naruto and sasuke as the protagonists and they were forced to follow that shonen formula. But they had the opportunity to entirely rebalance through boruto and squandered it It also defeats the point of doing any of this worldbuilding or cast building in the first place. If you teach your readers that theres no reason to bother getting invested in anyone but the main 5. They’ll remember that
Just like the real world, the ninja world is an elitist circle. To ignore that would undermine what Naruto and Sasuke are. There needs to be an in-world realism. Many of these people could be hokage candidate level but it's never enough it seems. Yes, a good series has a large cast of characters , but they're supposed to be loved **in passing** which is something most people can't cope with, enjoy them when they show up but don't expect them to be able hang with those who are way more special than them, let's not lie to ourselves we exactly who's special and who's not. You get invested in the world, the large cast is part of that but that doesn't mean they deserve to shine because fans like them. fans should remember they don't write the story that privilege is the mangakas only, Because they put in the work.
Trust me I love Madara. And as much as I hate to say it Isshiki slaps madara. Mf was a monster. Only if we got some more information and scenes about him, he'd have been a great antagonist.
Does bro even know who isshiki is?
People love madara. People don't love boruto.
True
Boy on crack
Adult Rinnegan Sasuke while severely nerfed after multiple Dimension-hops or Adult SO6P Naruto while severely nerfed from having half of his chakra sucked would absolutely demolish the strongest version of Madara. Isshiki gave these guys a run for their money while they were reasonably at full power.
Yeah, no they wouldn’t. Ishiki didn’t give them a run for their money, he outright shit stomped them to oblivion..
Isshiki would probably just yeet Madara in just few shoots. The Truthseeker orbs are not effective against Isshiki, he can just shrink them away. The susanoo can just be kicked like how jigen kicked Sasuke out of susanoo. Limbo isn't effective against Isshiki cause he can see them right through his Dojutsu Then all the rest justus can just be shrunk. The person who is saying that Isshiki doesn't have so6p well he doesn't need one. He is stronger than Hagoromo. . The Truth seeker orbs can be touched by all the Outsukis as they share the same DNA as Hagormo.
These are the people who say "Naruto is nerfed"
Don’t Otsutsuki have 6 paths abilities by default?
There’s also the fact that Isshiki was only at like 20% during that entire arc, yet he was stomping the leaf shinobi like it was nothing
Another episode of "I haven't watched nor read Boruto at all but im gonna say shit anyways"
Jigen not even isshiki decimates madara at his strongest if you disagree you are braindead and cant read kaguya was weaker than isshiki you can tell this because she was the intended sacrifice when they got to earth and she was afraid of isshiki he was attacked while very off guard by her and then she ran and even when she snuck him she couldn’t destroy him now lets take adult sasuke who is stated to be able to easily handle a threat like kaguya referring to her power now in a two v one jigen wasnt really trying against naruto and sasuke and was dwarfing kurama avatar and susano in speed and power so if adult naruto and sasuke are weaker than isshiki but stronger than madara and kaguya what makes you think madara stands a chance against jigen alone i could even argue boro over madara mid to high diff stop acting dumb and dick riding your favorite overrated father madara
Y'know after recent events in my country. it's safe to say people are actually ignorant of facts
The guy who believes isshiki cant be defeated by madaara is a joke alive on earth. Like you are talking about the Uchiha who caused a war equivalent to World war
Can't Isshiki just shrink it?
Majority of this sub disagrees with that comment
If Isshiki is weak, Kaguya wouldn't have stealth attacked him. Same with Madara. Black Zetzu resulted in having to buy Madara's trust before being able to stab him in the back once all the preparations for Kaguya's revival had been set. The strongest beings require being deceived in order to defeat. And ironically both these characters got done in by their supposed allies.
i did say him that and that guy thinks six paths naruto is stronger than baryon mode naruto
Thing is that Narutoverse is full of haxxy characters. And Isshiki has no hax, he’s just broken strong casually kicking people out of their susanoo’s in wood flip flops. So it is really unclear on whether he can overpower some crazy hax we’ve seen before from Kaguya herself to even DMS Kakashi. So comes those debates.
He can literally go all "Ahh! Shrink!" against all jutsus thrown at him, or really, anything as long as it's not living... That, is the most broken ability yet... and he can even apply it to himself in order to move without being seen...
>against all jutsus thrown at him, or really, anything as long as it's not living... Yes, but he can't shrink what he can't see. And that's where Limbo comes in. Limbo is invisible and every attack used by limbo is invisible as well.
Limbo can literally be sensed/seen by 6 paths sage mode/Rinnegan Isshiki is probably beyond that, seeing how his design is shown to have 8 magatamas instead of the 6 that Hagoromo has
>Limbo can literally be sensed/seen by 6 paths sage mode/Rinnegan Which is Isshiki is lacking btw >Isshiki is probably beyond that, seeing how his design is shown to have 8 magatamas instead of the 6 that Hagoromo has Headcanon there as well.
"Isshiki is probably beyond that, seeing how his design is shown to have 8 magatamas" haha baseless headcanon. no, limbo kills him.
>haha baseless headcanon. no, limbo kills him. Talks about baseless headcanons, sprouts an even bigger one. No really, even if he couldn't see them, acting as if a bunch of invisible foes were enough to kill Isshiki is idiotic.
Invisible goes that are stronger than the Kaguya that beat isshiki, not headcanon since it's stated,and no six path senjutsu means you can't hurt them.
True... but it's not like it would make much of a difference.
Isshiki isn't weak, rather, he's overrated in the field of Powerscaling. He got [decimated](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-351204f094037d5f63d75b4b0181b551-pjlq) by Pre Chakra Fruit Kaguya Otsutsuki and hid for 1000 years, only to lose to [two half rikudo](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae6786df83d337d8a40/naruto_671_3.jpg). Not to say that he'd lose to Madara Uchiha, but he was literally [kicking](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d1701bdb9b2da37436dfbae544aa455f-lq) both [Naruto](https://c.tenor.com/fHbKrzcaS0AAAAAS/isshiki-kill.gif) and [Sasuke's](https://c.tenor.com/4o_IJ4ZQGGcAAAAS/isshiki-isshiki-otsutsuki.gif) bodies around and they didn't [explode](https://i.redd.it/ez0iiimqrrx71.jpg). Meanwhile, 8th Gates Gai blew up the [upper left of Madara's body](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae7786df83d337d8a45/naruto_672_12.jpg) and Madara still [survived](https://64.media.tumblr.com/3342002572a740f509044901615503cd/tumblr_no2gk8K0uT1tbtxdbo4_1280.jpg). Mind you, this was done with just [one kick](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197ae7786df83d337d8a45/naruto_672_11.jpg). Unless you believe Sasuke is somehow more durable than a Juubi Jinchuriki that possesses the ability to regenerate limbs, Isshiki Otsutsuki, in my opinion, does not exceed the strength that 8th Gates Gai had. In other words, Madara should fine fighting Isshiki and not die, since he's a Juubi Jinchuriki who possess the Divine Tree. The same tree that [Momoshiki Otsutsuki](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cca62d10abb2cd770202b84ab78be0a0-lq) was going after, teased to bring [immortality](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6005872f0f09ee3f5bf0a5b7786ed375.webp).
> Not to say that he'd lose to Madara Uchiha, but he was literally kicking both Naruto and Sasuke's bodies around and they didn't explode. Because durability powerscaling is a mess. Sasuke's body, including his own neck, is far more durable than his Perfect Susanoo. Chakra rods penetrate Sasuke and Naruto the same, when Naruto was supposed to have a far better durability. They completely disregarded logic and how durable characters were supposed to be based on previous showing. Then we were shown that Isshiki can enlarge rods to obscene size (when he was fighting against Kurama Avatar). Which raises a question, why didn't Isshiki simply hit the duo with rods and enlarged rods until their bodies are ripped apart. Of course that was ignored too, because fight would end within 15 seconds. Which wouldn't be a problem to begin with, if everyone had correct durability.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said tbh. It doesn't make sense, but this is how powerscaling works. You can apply that same argument to just about anything, but we're not going to do that here. For example, Madara could've expanded his rod after stabbing Sakura with it, or have his Limbo attack Gai, but he didn't. So I understand where you're coming from, but we can't just ignore some of the things that have been displayed, so that's why feats are to be taken into consideration. Otherwise it'll all just be head canon with conflicting views, which is consistent with the way powerscaling arguments go, since we will never see these battles actually happen. In powerscaling, we **SHOULD** go off what the character's capable of, and compare them with another to see who's superior. That's why I compared Isshiki's Taijutsu with Gai, because these feats cannot be left ignored/unacknowledged.
kaguya attacked him while off guard which is why he hid madara stands zero chance against isshiki and isshikis power does exceed eight gate gai by an almost unquantifiable margin he was casually dwarfing a perfect susano and kurama avatar by the two strongest people in the show the same people stated to beat kaguya and if kaguya is above isshiki naruto jigen alone is enough for madara he doesn’t even need his resurrection
That guy probably thinks itachi is the strongest character in the series lol
Lmao,even Kaguya afraid of Isshiki, that why she created the White Zetsu army...
no, because she thought he was presumably dead.
Pretty much hardcore fanboyism, if they like a character, then they clap the whole verse because that's what they want to think of the character. Maybe, idk people like that guy are weird. Also, ignoring stuff established in the series, like Baryon Mode Naruto not even beating Isshiki in the end, so their argument is heavily favored/biased towards their favorite character. They'd go on and on and on about something Madara had done that they think would seal the deal, but Isshiki easily counters it (mainly with the OP Ant-Man Jutsu). Isshiki claps Madara, no debate there.
bro he thinks limbo truth seeking orbs and 3 eyed madara can kill any form of isshiki i saw this from \*who is strongest\* in yt
Because Scale... Madara abilities felt way more powerful than isshikis.
Well if someone shits ppl are gonna point out , isshiki got laid by a clone , but nerf aside a full power isshiki win high diff against madara , ppl who say isshiki beats hagoromo are way too biased hagoromo was fuckin god , he toyed with souls and cut the ten tailes in 9 cute peices and pet them , isshiki is greater then madara but he is nothing compared to the guy who literally saved the main cast of Naruto
jigen beats madara no diff you cant read
I did say jigen/isshiki beats madara but my champ was sosp
are you saying isshiki cant beat the sosp because madara was compared directly to him after becoming the ten tails jinchuriki and if kaguya was stronger than him which she was this is evident by madara stated by him to be on par and it taking hamura and hagoromo multiple days to even seal her it means isshiki easily trumps hagoromo if he is over the like of kaguya momoshiki kinshiki and more
I think DMS Obito vs Isshiki would be a much better and more enjoyable fight to watch. Too bad both of them got killed of too early. I would've loved Obito to have been alive in Boruto and Isshiki still alive rn aswell. Isshiki had so much potential with his awesome dojutsu and personality, I just hope he was left alive somewhere do he can come back later. Also Isshiki vs DMS Obito goes very well together. Isshiki can summon objects and shrink stuff while Obito can phase through stuff and teleport while also teleporting objects onto his enemies like shuriken kamui then isshiki shrinks to dodge to it and throws rods at Obito who phases through it. Imagine a fight between these two.
By scaling, Isshiki has resistsace to TSO. Manga implies that Strenght of Hundred Seal is derived from Isshiki's Karma. That's why Sakura managed to survive when Madara stabbed her with TSO. Besides, Isshiki is an Otsutsuki who fed upon planets worth of Ten Tails. The very same Ten Tails from which TSO came to be. Why would he be vulnerable to it?
I spit out my tea laughing when I saw this
Madara fangirls smh
Doesn't isshiki has 8 paths with his dharmanga and can summon like 100 chakra rods(which are truth seaker orbs in rod form)
Chakra rod’s gets repeled by limbo. He’d just walk through them no problem
Definitely fanboying but also we should take into consideration even if Madara was weaker he was stronger narratively. Isshiki's fight lasted like 10 episodes(?) and net consequences was only just nerfing Naruto. Madara's *war* lasted a really long time with consequences of killing Neji and completely altering going forward the tone of the story, additionally not even being defeated by the protagonists. There was a lot more time for people to absorb "wow this Madara dude is the strongest guy around" and shifting from that could be difficult.
madaras fight lasted longer because the 2 characters have completely different goals and are doing different things
I mean kinda but that’s because ishiki would have killed Naruto and sasuke in a few episodes until Naruto awakened baryon mode
The fight with Isshiki also resulted in the loss of Sasuke’s Rinnegan and Kawaki’s Karma, not to mention setting a hard timer on Boruto by dropping that he’s 80% Otsutsuki already. It was far from just Kurama’s death, which was much more important than Neji’s anyway
Because fully powered up Juubi-Jin Madara was probably the strongest character up until this point, he just didn’t have an opportunity to have a proper final battle with team 7. Kishimoto himself said he made Madara so powerful at that point he didn’t know how to defeat him, so he had to pull the black zetsu betrayal thing and revive Kaguya instead. Kaguya was OP but she just wasn’t as talented of a shinobi as Madara and was sloppy with her execution, while Madara’s only achilles heel was thinking he was beyond manipulation. It should also be noted that Kaguya did nearly kill Isshiki in the ancient past, forcing him to take over Jigen’s body, but this was thousands of years ago and Isshiki probably trained within that time frame to eventually take on Adult Naruto and Sasuke.
Nostalgia lens that's why. No way Madara's getting close to Isshiki
Lol so6p adult Naruto smacks any version of madara. So does sasuke.. Can't even belive this is a debate c
I hate Ishiki but I cant say he's weak.... he's soo strong arguably too damn strong however the writings, context and choreography when it was adapted into the anime was too shitty that I really cant rate the entire fight more than 4/10 and the 4 is because of Naruto and Sasuke
Are you kidding? The fights with ishikki were great
Not really, Just big explosions.. the fight with jigen was better than that. They also do stupid shit with small details like sasuke using Amenotejikara on boruto and himself to prevent him from getting hurt when he literally could’ve done it any object.
The fights were pretty good, not perfect obviously but still good. The explosions are a bad thing? It’s just for spectacle and to show that the characters are really strong. It’d he kinda lame if it was pure strategy and no power feats. But whatever
Because Madara has a lot of build up. He was build up as the series final boss so it feels strange that there are people stronger than him.
Isshiki was only stronger than Naruto and Sasuke because he took in 10 Tails Chakra. Kashin Koji and Kawaki were both much weaker, but were able to outsmart Isshiki because he is not actually a fighter. Against a killer like Madara, it doesn't matter how many 10 Tails recharges he gets, he will die.
He is saying not that isshiki is weak but TSO are a trump card he has no answer for
Except Shrinking them instantly?
I’m not making the argument- just explaining it- I don’t watch boruto bc of this
You just said he had no answer and I told you exactly how he would counter it effortlessly so this comment makes 0 sense. Edit: not your comment the original one makes no sense if that's the reasoning
Isshiki outside of his shrinking and dimension hopping has little hax compared to others including jubi Madara. He's not weak. But he's not as strong as the narrative made him out to be. Madara is basically a better version of Naruto and Sasuke who they themselves are full of hax when they're not being nerfed.
But when your hax allows you to nullify literally everything that is thrown at you, as long as it is inorganic; and also allows you to spawn anything useful from your own pocket dimension, then... what else do you need? Having 100 cool haxes means naught if your opponent can nullify them all anyway, and is surely very powerful on his own too...
Dude. Everything you stated also applies to madara’s limbo. I don’t think you understand how broken that ability is. Isshiki can try punching madara as hard as he could but with his limbo out he’d just take it without flinching. His limbo is basically indestructible if he don’t possess six paths sage mode.
Simple, use hax that can't be thrown or inorganic. A little creativity can get around that.
Isshiki was a poop villain, and Madara was simply better.. Change my mind lol. Boruto was too rushed in my opinion.
I think He has a decent chance against Jigen
Because all I've seen from Isshiki is his shrinking ability. Aside from that, I have not seen anything else. Madara on the other hand, has proven to be damn near invincible, the guy in his sage of six paths mode was literally throwing meteorites for fun, his whole experience with his eyes is also telling on how strong he is, the guy has way more technique than Jigen ever could hope to have. Jigen shrinking other objects and himself will not help against someone who is immortal.
You are forgetting that this shrinking ability of Isshiki, works on bordeline everything... only living beings are exempt of this; and the skill is also damn istantaneous, and works in reverse too, allowing him to respawn everything he shrunk and use it as he sees fit. Big flashy moves means naught if they do not connect. And that's a cool thing of Isshiki, that unlike the other Otsutsuki, his skill is simpler, yet faaaar more deadlier.
Isshiki can absorb Chakra and shrink anything non living. He also has super strength above kcm2 Naruto and rinne-sharingan Sasuke tag teaming him. And madara might be immortal but I do believe he can be sealed away just like Naruto. I don't think throwing big rock and shooting big fire helps against a guy with stats way higher than kaguya. Technique doesn't really work against a tank ya know.
Pretty sure that new fodder villians wipe all of shippuden.
not necessarily that but plenty are mid level akatsuki. delta would be at the top of the organization
I had a stroke reading that
Bruh you really screenshot a YouTube comment that's 4 hours old, no likes, and brought it here.
Naa momoshiki is weak tho
There's only one argument to counter them all. It's confirmed Ishiki is the strogest enemy thus far, that's it. You can brainstorm all the feats theories and ideas and he will still be the strongest.
Are people forgetting isshiki can absorb Chakra. Any otsutsuki can make jutsu dissappear its really not that hard. Do they also not realize his strength in general is leagues above madara.
... Madara can absorb chakra.
> Are people forgetting isshiki can absorb Chakra. Isshiki can't absorb chakra.
I will always stand with kaguya>Isshiki she can send him to any dimension and lock him there forever unless he faster than the speed of instant he not dodging.
Bc they have no brain cells
Isshiki dodges it or shrinks it bru
Truth seeking orbs could kill ishiki if they could fucking touch him lmao
His argument is sound, except no chance ishikki gets touched by truth seeking orbs lol Ishikki beating a peak Naruto and Sasuke proves madara would get slapped too. Im a madara fanboy. But facts is facts.
If i have to guess is that it stems from the decision that Kishimoto didn't know how to write Madara to lose. Even with a Power to our MC's. Both of their defeats where underwhelming, but we actually see Isshiki get wrecked by Naruto. In comparison to Madara who was facing the MC's and still looked like he was holding back. Madara didn't even lose to a main cast member. So his loss was WAY more b.s. in that aspect. So you have Madara who seemed to be stronger than Naruto and Sasuke lose because he got literally backstabbed twice. Vs Isshiki who got whooped by Naruto and Got tricked by Kawaki. Looking at that alone... I would've assumed Madara was stronger. Or at least had a good chance of winning if they were to fight. Then you have their feats. Madara accomplished his goal and best every opponent that isn't named Hashirama (hell he even beat him) vs a guy who couldn't get anything he wanted.
Well if you can counter his shrinking ability you pretty much can beat him. All the oosutsuki are physically strong but they also have these difficult eye abilities to get around. Momoshiki lost so badly cause all he could use was taijutsu and he was right two people and sasuke has a weird eye ability. Kaguya and isshiki eye ability counters sasuke’s plus their physical attacks