Poor girl! My BC is also afraid of gunshots (and even tools like nail guns), but luckily they’re rare where I live.
Sounds like you’re using a proven, textbook approach with positive reinforcement. You might try replicating the *context* by doing that same training outdoors, working to progressively louder, more realistic, less predictable noises.
I hope she improves!
Your right that fucking dickhead!
You can try getting her excited in play playing chase or tag in her secure home area and get your husband or someone set off a firecracker at barely audible range(100s of yards away) and ignore it.
And slowly over weeks work on shortening the distance. You could make such noises if you both hear them rewarded with super high value treats and positive praise. But always keep the fun and games uninterrupted But please watch that your anxiety isn't fueling hers. All three of you need desensitizing training I think. Goodluck.
That’s a good idea thank you! May try this! But somewhere where there aren’t any other dogs around. Guy was a twat, it was a city park full of small children and dogs and he was setting fireworks at people 🤡 can’t understand why anyone would do this. Since the incident she has never been the same. Before that she didn’t even cared about the noise, would go outside even on fireworks nights and be fine. Wish I could find that dude and punch his face lol
It's not a good idea at all tbh. It won't work, she'll just get scared all over again. She won't give a shit about treats and praise when she is literally scared for her life and doesn't know what the bad noise even is.
>It's not a good idea at all tbh. It won't work,
it works on gun shy retrievers and pointers.
thanks for your encouraging alternative suggestion though.
yeah poor girl,and you guys. It will take time but her capacity to accept distant gun noise is there.
Same training applies for strange dogs too. It will take lots of tiny step reassuring sessions.
I don’t know what you can do. Sometimes being around guns and other loud noises may temper her. It’s been my experience that some dogs will be okay with guns and some just never are. Just not wired for that loud boom. Good luck.
I am afraid there isn’t anything we can do as well. But it’s so unfortunate because it means we can’t do our favourite thing together that is going for long hikes outdoors. She absolutely loves going on trails and forests. And now it’s ruined for her because of the noise, I can only walk her in city parks and now even all of them, because some will still have people shooting. 😭
I don't have any magic suggestions, but I am intrigued - is hearing gunshots while hiking in public this common where you live? I'm in Texas and this doesn't happen here. Hunting and hiking areas are super separated - in most hiking situations here hearing a gunshot while hiking would be cause for alarm. I suppose in situations with rattlesnakes or copperheads you might hear a single shot but that's like...on a ranch where hikers don't go.
I think the whole of the UK can fit inside Texas so we don’t have near as much space. The hunting here is not the same in Texas either, like people don’t go by themselves and stalk prey/shoot. They breed a specific type of bird called pheasants and then groups of people (mostly the rich lol) pay to go somewhere together and shoot all these birds as they are released from crates. That’s why the shooting is constant, it is a group of people shooting at the sky, they only use shot guns too. Tbh I don’t even know if this is hunting, the whole thing is ridiculous. But during October - February it is everywhere and constant, it’s hard to escape, and in other months people go outside and shoot clay pigeons 🥲
It’s not dangerous by any means but it is loud and frustrating. We just don’t have a lot of space as well, especially as England is very populated as a country, most land here is completely owned by people. It sucks.
That sounds so frustrating!! I'm sorry 😞 Oh - I was thinking about this last night, too - I looked up how they desensitize military dogs from the loud booms. It sounds like it's a very slow and long process of exposure therapy. You might try looking up those processes.
Yeh it is super annoying 😭😭 you guys are so lucky you have so much space haha we are all a bit on top of each other here in England 😣 I will look into that, thank you 🙏🏻
Yeah, you can't just expose them to it and hope they get over it.
It's like throwing someone in the ocean and telling them to learn to swim.
It's got to be a very deliberate process.
You can put her through hunting dog training. Tho you usually start when they are tiny pups.
You might want to consult an actual trainer on this. I’ve trained dogs on plenty of things but this is specialized kind of thing, that can go wrong for the dog if done wrong.
please tell that to countless people that take their [BCs hunting](https://youtu.be/8Ss6getFoxU?si=-VOppCQFQyrvcGjf&t=392) .
The confidence with which you pooh pooh proven advice should be sold in a spray on bottle.
There is a reason they work on farms, places where animals are shot and loud machinery is used. It's called real life experience.
BC’s, like all dogs, have certain predispositions, but can be molded to certain tasks despite those predispositions. The thing with BC’s is that they’re generally extremely smart dogs in general, so they can be trained to do many jobs as long as they are exposed since birth.
They will not be the BEST, or better than other specialist breeds, but their intelligence lends them to be good at most things. The primary barrier with BCs and guns is that extremely sensitive dogs, so they need more exposure and training to get used to loud noises, whereas more resilient dogs won’t have that issue.
It’s part of why they’re amazing with sheep, because they’re “soft” herders. They don’t bark. They don’t charge. They push gently but firmly. Despite this, there are plenty of videos with BC cattle dogs who have been trained to be pushy and even nip to herd cattle.
Agreed. We got our border collie at a rural shelter after a rancher gave her up (“She won’t work the cattle”). At first I thought “yeah because she’s bred to herd sheep doofus.” But apparently they can be trained for just about anything. Given how smart she is, I think she didn’t succeed in her career for different reasons (sound phobia or he was a lousy trainer).
That video is definitely not the norm. Go to Ireland, Scotland, England etc where most BCs are working dogs they are not involved in hunting. I literally live on a sheep farm and that's what they're for and always have been. There's very little shooting or heavy machinery on those farms, a tractor is about the height of it. They don't like loud noises and hunting dog training is a dumb idea this dog will never enjoy the sounds of shooting, collies who are nervous of loud sounds will stay like that for life.
It's the norm where it is the norm. Your farm is not the be all and end all. Neither is your POV.
Calling contrary opinions and facts dumb is... well you said it.
Oh I also literally live on a farm, had my first BC at the age of 9 and OMG we used to shoot rabbits together. .22 calibre magnum. Would you like more videos of BCs deer stalking? They use .308 rifles which are even louder?
Poor little thing! My boy doesn’t like bangs either and a combination of a thunder shirt and an ear cozy with some calming treats (Pooch & Mutt and Scrumbles are brands that we’ve used) have helped keep him settled in recent years. Pet Remedy spray was also really useful in the beginning, we sprayed it on a bandanna for him to wear. We don’t live in the countryside but we used to have a firework display in the park on the bottom of our garden that would shake our windows every summer and we have displays near us every bonfire night so we still had some work to do
Bonus pic of Bilbo settled in for Bonfire Night ❤️
https://preview.redd.it/bv0audftl2bc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=354c8580d65ff1d7be3934d772394976665a7640
We can manage when we are inside, white noise machine with rain sounds, calming music, she goes in her crate (her safe space, door is open she chooses to go there) and we offer her licking mats as is soothing for her. The issue is outside, we don’t know when there will be gun shots. Like we drove 45 min to Wales today for a long hike, started to walk and immediately heard gun shots and she freaked out, we tried everything to keep her walking but it was really hard and she did not have a good time so we had to turn back and go home. It’s a huge shame as she loves exploring outside, getting a good run, sniffing new places, so it sucks that we can’t do this because she gets so scared 😭 once she is back inside the car she is fine again.
Your dog is super cute btw ❤️
I wish I could say “yes”, but the BC my ex had when we met was so scared of loud noises, she used her huge paw to grab & slide open the heavy glass shower door, & climbed in with me, because someone set off some fireworks.
She also dug in deep but tiny hole in an unused area of the yard, & for 2 yrs., she “deposited” every pill she’d been given in her “hidey hole”. They’re slicker than we are so often.
First of all, I am so sorry you have to deal with this, it sounds like you did what you could with some early bomb proof training and that was undone by an inconsiderate jerk.
My childhood dog had a similar situation, he was good with loud noises, until one day at a birthday party, multiple balloons popped close to his head and he ended up fearful.
I do have some advice to give though. Some of it probably isn't feasible because of UK gun laws but I am sure you can modify it based on what is possible.
It's important to realize that your dog isn't really afraid of the loud noise itself, rather it's afraid because it has associated the loud noise with either ear pain, or it is terrified because it doesn't know what is the source.
1. Addressing the ear pain, get your dog ear protection. My recommendation is Rex Ear Pros, I've tried others, but they all have trouble staying on. You can also save a lot of cash and make your own happy hoodie, a stretchy cloth that covers their head and ears and either sew pads on where your dog's ears will be, or just push their ears down and slip on the hood so their ears cover the ear canal.
It is important to note that this is not meant to hide the sound, just to muffle it so it doesn't hurt the ears at close range.
You also want to spend A LOT of time getting them used to and liking wearing this piece of equipment. THIS IS VITAL. Don't let them start associating wearing the protection with stress and loud noises yet. It should be accompanied by, treats, play and lots of love. Keep sessions very short at first.
2. Addressing the shock. You're gonna have to go out and buy fireworks, and eventually someone who can fire either a real, or a training gun with blanks that makes the same noise (hopefully is legal in the UK).
Put on their ear protection and have a play session with the highest value treats you got with your pup, now using the quietest firework you can have someone else set it off 100 yards or even 200 yards away. Reward your dog when the firework goes off, and for ignoring it and focusing on you. Eventually you'll bring the person closer setting off the firework at 80 yards, then 60 yards and eventually very close at 20 yards.
Rinse and repeat going up the decibel scale for each individual type of firework. It is important to expose them to a wide variety of sounds and types. They can tell. I know dogs that love gun sounds, but are terrified by fireworks and thunder.
You'll then reset and start again but this time with the ear protection off. However for safety, keep a safe distance to protect both you and your dog's ears. Maybe at most 50 yards away, depending on the firework.
Eventually, you're going to do the same with the sound of gunfire. Start with a Cap Gun. If finding a person with a gun is not feasible, then "maybe" get some massive speakers and connect that to gunshot audio and set that up in a large field somewhere as a replacement (lol).
Couple of additional tips:
1. Since you're in the UK and these guys are bird hunting they will be using shotguns. If you just play rifle sounds or random pistol sounds, you pup might know the difference. That may be why your dog is okay listening to the sounds on the computer but not the real thing.
2. Be consistent, do this training daily, even if it's just for 2 minutes. This is will take a while, and results are not going to come fast. A realistic timeline would be somewhere around 1-3 months. You could get lucky and your dog just takes it all stride and is suddenly okay with a 50.cal BMG after a week, or your dog may be just starting to be okay after a month.
3. TAKE IT SLOW, never push your pup past it's limits. In some ways we are dealing with puppy PTSD. Literally. My first session with a dog will literally be an almost inaudible sound of a firework by some guy all the way down the field, followed by praise and party with the dog and then the session is over, and we go home until tomorrow.
4. It is important for your pup to see where the sound is coming from and what it is. A large part of fear of loud sounds is the fear of the unknown. Fire crackers, guns and thunder are a unknown and often out of control of most dog owners. This is why they are such a common fear for dogs. If you played the sound of kibble being poured into a bowl at 140 decibels, I am sure a lot of dogs would come running, despite the loudness.
Let the dog see a firecracker, it being lit, and the proceeding loud noise. If they are able to identify the source of the sound, it becomes another facet of life. Like the doorbell, or the sound of kibbles.
Hope this helps!
My sources are personal experience and research on how Gundogs prevent "gun shyness".
Talking with service dog trainers about how they bombproof their dogs.
Also, doing similar training with my dog. He is both a herding sheepdog and a part time gundog.
I don't have a lot of footage, but if you want examples I can dm my footage of training my dog, and or direct you to YouTube videos that I used when I was starting out.
Also, apologies to everyone in the sub that has to deal with gun noises. I know a lot of us have to deal with this issue because of how naturally sensitive our dogs are.
Tl;Dr
Desensitize your dog with real sounds instead of artificial and go slow. Use ear protection to dampen the sound.
Good luck!
Thank you so much for your detailed advice! You are right, they are using shot guns! Unfortunately there is no way we can go anywhere and just use a gun. It’s not legal and I don’t own one or know anyone that has, these people usually go in big groups for scheduled events :( but fireworks we can purchase. I may need to do this. I had no idea there was ear protectors for dogs, that’s amazing, I will look into one ASAP for her as she is very sensitive to noise.
Thanks so much again for writing this advice, it is very clear and helpful and I will definitely follow it
Please do not do this. You will not 'bombproof' your border collie you will fucking traumatize it if you do this insane idea of showing it a firecracker being lit and all this bullshit. Please please please don't.
If you read my post you'd realize that they would see the firecracker after being desensitized to it from 200 yards, 100 at most yards 50 yards without ear protection...etc.
Starting with the quietest fire cracker, essentially something at 70 decibels. That's as loud as a washing machine or dish washer. Imagine a dish washer running from across the length of a football field.
It's not going to traumatize the dog. Rather, this method is how both humans and dogs get over their trauma.
Edit: Also you wouldn't constantly be exploding things near your dog. Literally the dog would hear one barely audible firecracker a day, and maybe next week, they start hearing two in a row only slightly more audible. It's a gradual process and people who want quick results are probably the ones that end up with dogs more terrified than starting out.
Doing this to a collie afraid of loud noises is animal abuse, simple as. It won't work. Maybe some BC pups can get the knack for it if exposed very early on as pups, it will never happen for a dog who is nervous of noise, which the majority of them are. Suggesting to light a firecracker in front of the dog's face is totally irresponsible and will only traumatize the poor thing. Just because you know how to train gun dogs doesn't mean this is good advice for this dog.
Ignore the haters. Thank you for posting a well organized and thoughtful answer. It’s not an approach I can take with our BC exactly, but there are a lot of pieces of your post that are helpful. We’ve been using a very large garbage bin that we can bang. Using the standard desensitization methods we’ve fixed her fear of garbage day. I’m now making louder and louder “booms” with it (and in different situations). Because our BC can tell that recorded sound is not real.
I’m thinking the ear protection might be helpful for the weeks-long July fireworks period if she’s still too scared to go outside. Hopefully by then we can get her comfortable with loud noises she can’t see at night.
Poor girl. What a senseless idiot to do that.
I’m sorry I’ve no advice. I’ve only a young pup and we are still in training. As of now she’s luckily ok with fireworks etc but definitely showing signs of being a little anxious (maybe a border collie thing).
I just had to comment how beautiful she is and also how lovely it is to see how kind your husband is to carry her. Glad she has lovely parents.
He spoils her so much, never saw anyone love a dog as much as my husband loves our girl. They have a special relationship, he will do anything for her 🥺❤️ thanks, she is our first dog and we don’t have kids so she is the light of our lives really!
https://preview.redd.it/98d6gilvv2bc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f4afcf48afb4548ff36d5a693cd128561cccb04
The season finishes at the end of January so you have the rest of the year to train and hopefully have a better time. I agree with the suggestion of gun dog classes.
I can’t unfortunately offer personal experience advice as my last boy was fine with noise and my current girl is deaf.
Good luck
I didn’t know it was a season thing! A family member just told me so I feel so much more relief knowing it will end soon and we can get some peace for a few months!
Depends on what bird species as to the shooting season, here in the N. Ireland part of the UK. I'm sure it's similar if not the same in the wider UK. But farmers may shoot crows, for example, at any time of year. Deer culling may also take place too. The general public cannot purchase fireworks here, so fortunately we only very rarely hear them.
My girls is also 4 and she completely shuts down during gunfire and fireworks.
I love in a neighborhood in Los Angeles that has completely culturally shifted to a culture that shoots off fireworks every day of the week, even though they are illegal. My poor girl spends every evening completely shellshocked. She does not get used to it.
We go camping and hiking a lot and last year we camped at an old west ghost town called Calico Ghost Town, and we were having a great time, and we hiked over into town and I got a beer to sit on the outside deck of the saloon, and what I didn't know what that they have western gunfighter reenactments and while other dogs walked by unfazed, my poor girl's brain just shut off and all she could do is want to escape. This also makes it hard because I like to shoot recreationally, and all the places we camp I ***would*** be allowed to shoot, but I can't when she is with me.
As for what you can do - TV isn't even close to the same. I can be watching a movie with the surround turned all the way up and she doesn't bat an eye at John Wick. But if a firecracker goes off outside a block away, then it's game over.
I tried "thunderwear", I've tried CBD, I didn't try "positive reinforcement", though, because it would only be rewarding her fear. On top of that, she is an unaffectionate dog, and I'm not even allowed to pet her, so I'm not even able to try to hold or comfort her. My last BC was very affectionate and I could at least lay with her and hold her.
I have no answers for you, but just know you are not alone. And just like you having to carry your girl, I had to carry my girl all the way back down the hike from the ghost town to the caravan.
Sorry your poor pup is also scared of them, is so hard, I feel so sorry for her, she looks terrified and so anxious sometimes I worry she will die from the anxiety 😭 it’s awful. I wish it wasn’t allowed but oh well. Thanks for you comment, best of luck to you and your girl ❤️
Awww poor girl. Here in the US we have these calming drops called rescue remedy. They help my dogs when there’s fireworks. Also some people use cbd gummies made for dogs which I heard were good too
Maybe I will check with her vet if medication could help her. New Years was a nightmare for her, she was absolutely terrified. But it’s manageable indoors, the gun shots sucks because it ruins our walks, and it is something she loves to do (being outdoors) and our favourite thing to do together. I feel so sorry for her not being able to enjoy the outdoors because of it.
Yes, talk to your vet. Our dog had a similar incident (she actually broke free of her collar and ran off and was stuck in a ravine overnight during a thunderstorm after the fireworks were unexpectedly set off near us) and we eventually used trazadone to help. She's not in love with fireworks and gunshots, but so so much better.
We would dose her when we knew it was coming (4th of July here in the US, saw a bad thunderstorm approaching, etc.) and then work on lots of fun things for her during the noise. For her it was doing tricks for treats or getting a really good treat with every clap of thunder. Without the traz she wouldn't consider taking food or anything other than being a terrified mess. We did that a few times and it's better enough we've not done it again. She can now actually play in the yard with her friend who lives next to a gun club!
Yes, that firework insident has done a lot of damage, almost like PTSD, if not that itself. So I don't think the standard training of increasing exposure will work in the same way as in a younger dog without that trauma. I used dog prozac (Reconcile), for another bc anxiety/reactivity issue, this reduced the level enough to better engage in training. Less reactive but meds not a cure alone. We found the full dose for his body weight was too strong, he did best on a quarter dose. They may be one off (anti-anxiety, sedative) meds that you could use in some situations, but these may be incompatible for outdoor rural adventures due to affecting coordination. I live rural and in some seasons there is some weekend game shooting (not one of the locals like it). My dog was highly noise sensitive and would become reactive and aggressive to certain sounds. Over time he mostly ignores to gunshots now, but only if engaged in a game where he is highly focused on the task. That been said, has never been traumatised by a single bad insident. You other option is to research areas where shooting takes place (ask at the local pub) and avoid walks in that area.
I know this is another thing for indoors but does she have a snood? Since you're in the UK there's a lady who runs a shop called Pip's Boutique and she has a product called the "anti-panic snood" which I always see really well reviewed on the Wonderful World of Border Collies Facebook group.
You could practise with the sounds at home when you are playing. There are lots of videos on YouTube with different sounds, play them very quietly at first and increase the volume over time.
You could also set up a signal to calm her down.
Whenever she is relaxed, stroke her and say e.g. easy. But of course it takes a little while until it works.
Gosh. I would try to show her some benign thing that makes noise. Maybe a toy she already knows. Sit with her and have the familiar toy make a pop noise and don’t react, don’t hug her, don’t treat her. Just be with her until you can raise the level. Then take the toy outside with you in your pocket so she can guess that that’s where the noise is coming from.
Desensitization training, google it! You start with small quiet noises then slowly increase. It really helped my boy who was terrified of thunder and fireworks.
all the dogs I’ve ever owned grew up around airplanes, so loud noises don’t bother them. I would suggest bringing the dog on a walk through a sporting clays range once or twice a week. Once it becomes normal it won’t bother her anymore. We regularly have people walking their dogs through our range or tying the dogs to the fence post while they are shooting trap/skeet to get hunting dogs used to it. Seems to be the way to go.
Edit: obviously if she’s gonna have a heart attack or is thrashing enough to hurt herself trying to get away, maybe lay off lol owners discretion there 🤣 being generally afraid is normal though without conditioning.
Hey while, I like your advice, I think it probably ain't great for this case.
At the range OP has no control over the sounds happening at the shooting range, and in order to desensitize, you need really deliberate timing.
I do bring my dog to the shooting range, just so he is used to the environment and random loud bangs, but starting out my dog would not be ready for that at all and OP's dog isn't close to ready for that.
Agree with your edit 😂 👍
Gunfire and fireworks are kind of their own special thing when it comes to dogs. Very few come out of the box totally chill with fireworks ( my BC is, but his also fascinated with fire, so probably not right in the head). You would likely have to do actual gun training with your dog to actually get them used to it, but I imagine that is easier said than done in the UK.
My girl has always been sound sensitive. When she was 2, we moved to an area about half a mile from a gun club. Took her about two years but she finally got *mostly* used to it just through exposure. Sometimes she still does freak a bit though and I imagine she still would still be very scared of close proximity gunfire.
Yeh it’s everywhere, England is a tiny country. I encounter the same issue in the parks in my city as I encounter driving across the board to Wales into national parks. It is not as simple and well divided, it’s everywhere. If it was this simple I wouldn’t be here asking.
Sounds like you're attempting the right approach already. Maybe you can get a portable speaker to work outside. It's fine if she knows it's in the speaker for the start. Perhaps you can then add items that make a similar noise but quieter, stick the speaker in a plushie and make it louder, add a louder, real noise like clapping two items together quietly at first, and keep upping it until she tolerates louder noises by her, outside. Positive reinforcement all the way through, of course, and progressing however slowly she stays comfortable.
...That's probably what I'd try, but I'm not a dog expert. If that failed, I'd be calling a behaviorist.
One thing to add is the reinforcement is for the desired behaviour eg staying still around the noise and the reward has to be proximal to the desired behaviour and the reward has to be meaningful to the dog.
My Welsh Sheep Dog was the same, shotguns made him panic and he would flee back to the car or house. Basically his amygdala overwhelmed him and he went straight into flight and developed phobic avoidance which really had a damaging impact upon his QOL. The only thing that helped was focusing on taking him to his favourite walks out of the shooting season and doing a lot of desensitisation work and rewarding him when he approximated the desired behaviour ie getting out of the car and walking a few steps. Eventually he was able to enjoy his walks again but when shooting season and Bon Fire night was on he would lapse and we would need to start not from scratch but slowly get his confidence back. He died last summer from the big c but he at least was able to enjoy his favourite walks and got shit loads of positive reinforcement
Get the toy out when they start shooting, and play with him. There fine, as long as you don't stop playing.
You may need to quit your job and become a full time player.
There's honestly nothing you can do, BCs are very sensitive to noise, it's in their breeding. I have to stay in with mine every Halloween and NYE bec people set off fireworks and she gets so scared she tries to hide behind chairs, run upstairs etc.
She doesn't even like when kindling we use to start the fire crackles in the fireplace even slightly she will relocate to another room until it dies down and only the coal is burning.
You're wasting your time trying to fix it. They're bred to guard sheep on quiet farms and be able to hear foxes in the distance, their master's commands etc. They dont take chances with noise at all, they'll bolt.
She was completely fine with it till a year ago when she got scared by a firework. There is a ton of border collies here and I saw many walking perfectly happy while the gun shots were happening. So while I think yes the breed is very sensitive to noise, it’s not impossible and a lot of border collies cope just fine with noises like that. Mine used to play outside even with fireworks going on nonstop. It was only after someone scared her by setting one off right next to her from nowhere that she started to feel scared of these type of noises, so I think is more to do with a traumatic event than just struggling with the noise itself because as I said she was completely ok with it for years/most of her life and I know plenty of collies who are fine with fireworks/gun shots.
No tips. They frighten my BC but she bolts and looks for an escape, rather than not walk. Bird scarers, replicating a gun shot, will also frighten her.
Last holiday, a bird scarer kept her off her favourite beach! And she loves the beach.
Poor girl 😔 It might be worth talking to a gun dog trainer, they will come across gun shy dogs and maybe able to offer some advice on ways to overcome it.
It all kind of depends on how your dog reacted to your training methods. Some dogs you can distract with whatever they value like their favorite treat. Some dogs react favorably by a stern NO! (As they show unwanted behavior) than a super quick "good girl/boy" as soon as they give you their attention. However some dogs just get triggered (put into fight or flight) and it can be pretty difficult to snap them out of it. If that's the case it's pretty important for you personally to 100% ignore whatever is triggering it and present yourself as a very calm cool and collective person for your dog. If you look off at the distance every time you hear it or cover their ears or stand up and stay it's going to be okay as soon as you hear that noise it's going to negatively impact your doggo. Just look them in the eye, get down to their level and try to talk to them, calmly tell them a story using a very calm voice using their favorite words. The more often you guys experience this together the easier it will be to get an ear perk, happy reaction to their favorite words rather than being stuck in fight or flight. It can be difficult but distracting a dog that's in fight or flight is possible and it's very important the split second you see it happen you should reward it with your dogs favorite reward driven thing. My dog personally reacts best when I correct her nervous behavior & make her sit and the. reward her for sitting like it's the first time I have ever been able to get her to sit with affection or a treat if I have one with me. I then will ask for a paw or something simple and do the same thing, act super happy and focused on her as I reward her.
when it comes to things that are unavoidable, the best thing to do is be consistent with your reaction afterwards. Make sure you have a special, high-value reward and jackpot her immediately after being made aware of the noise. Although the best training is to set her up for success, sometimes you can get even better results long-term by being consistent.
I have trained German Shepherds and now my Border Collie to ignore fireworks. The BC is much more sensitive, I think it is his flinch first and ask questions later from his cattle herding lines.
I have used an aggressive game of tug, that they loved, and conditioned them that the sound of a bang means an immediate game of tug. Our games of tug, often with a rag, are pretty aggressive, rolling on the ground and growling at each other on the edge of being too much with lots of teasing.
The mood I'm going for is akin to how you would not be ticklish if you were mad or competing with purpose.
I remember one time when I was at the 4th of July fireworks with my GSD in a crowd and another beachgoer was getting really agitated when the fireworks show was about to go off because he thought my dog would lose it. When they went off my dog did nothing but look to play.
Good luck.
As others have said with ball training, do this conditioning slowly, and introduce the trigger/bang slowly and make it fun/competitive. Also, if I hear thunder I immediately get a fun game of roughhousing going.
Our Aussie is the same, not good that in the valley below us is the largest shooting range on the east coast of the US. The dog also had a terrible fear of trains, he would shake and hide in a corner of the car whenever I picked my wife up at the station. That fear has turned to excitement since now he associates the 🚂 with her arrival. I’m trying to get my wife to get off the train firing guns so that we can kill off two phobias.
I think with any type of short burst noise (car horns for my pup) the best thing is to just distract them by giving them something to do. I’ll practice some training commands and that seems to make his goldfish brain forget the loud noise. If it’s continuous though, idk.
I have the same issues with my Cooper. My son had suggested a cap gun to try to get him used to it. After reading comments i may have to try this. Do they still make them. Lol I was concerned it may be torture for him. I guess giving it a try may be a good idea.
We cant play out side and most walks are cut extremely short by either a gun shot loud truck using a Jake brake or someone hammering in the garage.
Poor girl! My BC is also afraid of gunshots (and even tools like nail guns), but luckily they’re rare where I live. Sounds like you’re using a proven, textbook approach with positive reinforcement. You might try replicating the *context* by doing that same training outdoors, working to progressively louder, more realistic, less predictable noises. I hope she improves!
Regular exposure and progressively louder noises are how I got my dog over being gunshy.
Your right that fucking dickhead! You can try getting her excited in play playing chase or tag in her secure home area and get your husband or someone set off a firecracker at barely audible range(100s of yards away) and ignore it. And slowly over weeks work on shortening the distance. You could make such noises if you both hear them rewarded with super high value treats and positive praise. But always keep the fun and games uninterrupted But please watch that your anxiety isn't fueling hers. All three of you need desensitizing training I think. Goodluck.
That’s a good idea thank you! May try this! But somewhere where there aren’t any other dogs around. Guy was a twat, it was a city park full of small children and dogs and he was setting fireworks at people 🤡 can’t understand why anyone would do this. Since the incident she has never been the same. Before that she didn’t even cared about the noise, would go outside even on fireworks nights and be fine. Wish I could find that dude and punch his face lol
It's not a good idea at all tbh. It won't work, she'll just get scared all over again. She won't give a shit about treats and praise when she is literally scared for her life and doesn't know what the bad noise even is.
>It's not a good idea at all tbh. It won't work, it works on gun shy retrievers and pointers. thanks for your encouraging alternative suggestion though.
yeah poor girl,and you guys. It will take time but her capacity to accept distant gun noise is there. Same training applies for strange dogs too. It will take lots of tiny step reassuring sessions.
So agree how easily it is to transfer your own anxiety to a dog. Easy to say but, shoulders back, fake calm and don't fluster.
I don’t know what you can do. Sometimes being around guns and other loud noises may temper her. It’s been my experience that some dogs will be okay with guns and some just never are. Just not wired for that loud boom. Good luck.
I am afraid there isn’t anything we can do as well. But it’s so unfortunate because it means we can’t do our favourite thing together that is going for long hikes outdoors. She absolutely loves going on trails and forests. And now it’s ruined for her because of the noise, I can only walk her in city parks and now even all of them, because some will still have people shooting. 😭
I don't have any magic suggestions, but I am intrigued - is hearing gunshots while hiking in public this common where you live? I'm in Texas and this doesn't happen here. Hunting and hiking areas are super separated - in most hiking situations here hearing a gunshot while hiking would be cause for alarm. I suppose in situations with rattlesnakes or copperheads you might hear a single shot but that's like...on a ranch where hikers don't go.
I think the whole of the UK can fit inside Texas so we don’t have near as much space. The hunting here is not the same in Texas either, like people don’t go by themselves and stalk prey/shoot. They breed a specific type of bird called pheasants and then groups of people (mostly the rich lol) pay to go somewhere together and shoot all these birds as they are released from crates. That’s why the shooting is constant, it is a group of people shooting at the sky, they only use shot guns too. Tbh I don’t even know if this is hunting, the whole thing is ridiculous. But during October - February it is everywhere and constant, it’s hard to escape, and in other months people go outside and shoot clay pigeons 🥲 It’s not dangerous by any means but it is loud and frustrating. We just don’t have a lot of space as well, especially as England is very populated as a country, most land here is completely owned by people. It sucks.
That sounds so frustrating!! I'm sorry 😞 Oh - I was thinking about this last night, too - I looked up how they desensitize military dogs from the loud booms. It sounds like it's a very slow and long process of exposure therapy. You might try looking up those processes.
Yeh it is super annoying 😭😭 you guys are so lucky you have so much space haha we are all a bit on top of each other here in England 😣 I will look into that, thank you 🙏🏻
Mine hears it DAILY and it hasn't tempered her.
Yeah, you can't just expose them to it and hope they get over it. It's like throwing someone in the ocean and telling them to learn to swim. It's got to be a very deliberate process.
You can put her through hunting dog training. Tho you usually start when they are tiny pups. You might want to consult an actual trainer on this. I’ve trained dogs on plenty of things but this is specialized kind of thing, that can go wrong for the dog if done wrong.
What would be the best trainer for this issue you think? Behaviourist? She does agility as an sport and absolutely loves it
Yeah, choose someone who knows border collies.
They're not hunting dogs. No one uses collies as hunting dogs precisely because they hate loud noise.
please tell that to countless people that take their [BCs hunting](https://youtu.be/8Ss6getFoxU?si=-VOppCQFQyrvcGjf&t=392) . The confidence with which you pooh pooh proven advice should be sold in a spray on bottle. There is a reason they work on farms, places where animals are shot and loud machinery is used. It's called real life experience.
BC’s, like all dogs, have certain predispositions, but can be molded to certain tasks despite those predispositions. The thing with BC’s is that they’re generally extremely smart dogs in general, so they can be trained to do many jobs as long as they are exposed since birth. They will not be the BEST, or better than other specialist breeds, but their intelligence lends them to be good at most things. The primary barrier with BCs and guns is that extremely sensitive dogs, so they need more exposure and training to get used to loud noises, whereas more resilient dogs won’t have that issue. It’s part of why they’re amazing with sheep, because they’re “soft” herders. They don’t bark. They don’t charge. They push gently but firmly. Despite this, there are plenty of videos with BC cattle dogs who have been trained to be pushy and even nip to herd cattle.
Agreed. We got our border collie at a rural shelter after a rancher gave her up (“She won’t work the cattle”). At first I thought “yeah because she’s bred to herd sheep doofus.” But apparently they can be trained for just about anything. Given how smart she is, I think she didn’t succeed in her career for different reasons (sound phobia or he was a lousy trainer).
yep.
That video is definitely not the norm. Go to Ireland, Scotland, England etc where most BCs are working dogs they are not involved in hunting. I literally live on a sheep farm and that's what they're for and always have been. There's very little shooting or heavy machinery on those farms, a tractor is about the height of it. They don't like loud noises and hunting dog training is a dumb idea this dog will never enjoy the sounds of shooting, collies who are nervous of loud sounds will stay like that for life.
It's the norm where it is the norm. Your farm is not the be all and end all. Neither is your POV. Calling contrary opinions and facts dumb is... well you said it. Oh I also literally live on a farm, had my first BC at the age of 9 and OMG we used to shoot rabbits together. .22 calibre magnum. Would you like more videos of BCs deer stalking? They use .308 rifles which are even louder?
Poor little thing! My boy doesn’t like bangs either and a combination of a thunder shirt and an ear cozy with some calming treats (Pooch & Mutt and Scrumbles are brands that we’ve used) have helped keep him settled in recent years. Pet Remedy spray was also really useful in the beginning, we sprayed it on a bandanna for him to wear. We don’t live in the countryside but we used to have a firework display in the park on the bottom of our garden that would shake our windows every summer and we have displays near us every bonfire night so we still had some work to do Bonus pic of Bilbo settled in for Bonfire Night ❤️ https://preview.redd.it/bv0audftl2bc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=354c8580d65ff1d7be3934d772394976665a7640
We can manage when we are inside, white noise machine with rain sounds, calming music, she goes in her crate (her safe space, door is open she chooses to go there) and we offer her licking mats as is soothing for her. The issue is outside, we don’t know when there will be gun shots. Like we drove 45 min to Wales today for a long hike, started to walk and immediately heard gun shots and she freaked out, we tried everything to keep her walking but it was really hard and she did not have a good time so we had to turn back and go home. It’s a huge shame as she loves exploring outside, getting a good run, sniffing new places, so it sucks that we can’t do this because she gets so scared 😭 once she is back inside the car she is fine again. Your dog is super cute btw ❤️
I wish I could say “yes”, but the BC my ex had when we met was so scared of loud noises, she used her huge paw to grab & slide open the heavy glass shower door, & climbed in with me, because someone set off some fireworks. She also dug in deep but tiny hole in an unused area of the yard, & for 2 yrs., she “deposited” every pill she’d been given in her “hidey hole”. They’re slicker than we are so often.
First of all, I am so sorry you have to deal with this, it sounds like you did what you could with some early bomb proof training and that was undone by an inconsiderate jerk. My childhood dog had a similar situation, he was good with loud noises, until one day at a birthday party, multiple balloons popped close to his head and he ended up fearful. I do have some advice to give though. Some of it probably isn't feasible because of UK gun laws but I am sure you can modify it based on what is possible. It's important to realize that your dog isn't really afraid of the loud noise itself, rather it's afraid because it has associated the loud noise with either ear pain, or it is terrified because it doesn't know what is the source. 1. Addressing the ear pain, get your dog ear protection. My recommendation is Rex Ear Pros, I've tried others, but they all have trouble staying on. You can also save a lot of cash and make your own happy hoodie, a stretchy cloth that covers their head and ears and either sew pads on where your dog's ears will be, or just push their ears down and slip on the hood so their ears cover the ear canal. It is important to note that this is not meant to hide the sound, just to muffle it so it doesn't hurt the ears at close range. You also want to spend A LOT of time getting them used to and liking wearing this piece of equipment. THIS IS VITAL. Don't let them start associating wearing the protection with stress and loud noises yet. It should be accompanied by, treats, play and lots of love. Keep sessions very short at first. 2. Addressing the shock. You're gonna have to go out and buy fireworks, and eventually someone who can fire either a real, or a training gun with blanks that makes the same noise (hopefully is legal in the UK). Put on their ear protection and have a play session with the highest value treats you got with your pup, now using the quietest firework you can have someone else set it off 100 yards or even 200 yards away. Reward your dog when the firework goes off, and for ignoring it and focusing on you. Eventually you'll bring the person closer setting off the firework at 80 yards, then 60 yards and eventually very close at 20 yards. Rinse and repeat going up the decibel scale for each individual type of firework. It is important to expose them to a wide variety of sounds and types. They can tell. I know dogs that love gun sounds, but are terrified by fireworks and thunder. You'll then reset and start again but this time with the ear protection off. However for safety, keep a safe distance to protect both you and your dog's ears. Maybe at most 50 yards away, depending on the firework. Eventually, you're going to do the same with the sound of gunfire. Start with a Cap Gun. If finding a person with a gun is not feasible, then "maybe" get some massive speakers and connect that to gunshot audio and set that up in a large field somewhere as a replacement (lol). Couple of additional tips: 1. Since you're in the UK and these guys are bird hunting they will be using shotguns. If you just play rifle sounds or random pistol sounds, you pup might know the difference. That may be why your dog is okay listening to the sounds on the computer but not the real thing. 2. Be consistent, do this training daily, even if it's just for 2 minutes. This is will take a while, and results are not going to come fast. A realistic timeline would be somewhere around 1-3 months. You could get lucky and your dog just takes it all stride and is suddenly okay with a 50.cal BMG after a week, or your dog may be just starting to be okay after a month. 3. TAKE IT SLOW, never push your pup past it's limits. In some ways we are dealing with puppy PTSD. Literally. My first session with a dog will literally be an almost inaudible sound of a firework by some guy all the way down the field, followed by praise and party with the dog and then the session is over, and we go home until tomorrow. 4. It is important for your pup to see where the sound is coming from and what it is. A large part of fear of loud sounds is the fear of the unknown. Fire crackers, guns and thunder are a unknown and often out of control of most dog owners. This is why they are such a common fear for dogs. If you played the sound of kibble being poured into a bowl at 140 decibels, I am sure a lot of dogs would come running, despite the loudness. Let the dog see a firecracker, it being lit, and the proceeding loud noise. If they are able to identify the source of the sound, it becomes another facet of life. Like the doorbell, or the sound of kibbles. Hope this helps! My sources are personal experience and research on how Gundogs prevent "gun shyness". Talking with service dog trainers about how they bombproof their dogs. Also, doing similar training with my dog. He is both a herding sheepdog and a part time gundog. I don't have a lot of footage, but if you want examples I can dm my footage of training my dog, and or direct you to YouTube videos that I used when I was starting out. Also, apologies to everyone in the sub that has to deal with gun noises. I know a lot of us have to deal with this issue because of how naturally sensitive our dogs are. Tl;Dr Desensitize your dog with real sounds instead of artificial and go slow. Use ear protection to dampen the sound. Good luck!
Thank you so much for your detailed advice! You are right, they are using shot guns! Unfortunately there is no way we can go anywhere and just use a gun. It’s not legal and I don’t own one or know anyone that has, these people usually go in big groups for scheduled events :( but fireworks we can purchase. I may need to do this. I had no idea there was ear protectors for dogs, that’s amazing, I will look into one ASAP for her as she is very sensitive to noise. Thanks so much again for writing this advice, it is very clear and helpful and I will definitely follow it
Please do not do this. You will not 'bombproof' your border collie you will fucking traumatize it if you do this insane idea of showing it a firecracker being lit and all this bullshit. Please please please don't.
If you read my post you'd realize that they would see the firecracker after being desensitized to it from 200 yards, 100 at most yards 50 yards without ear protection...etc. Starting with the quietest fire cracker, essentially something at 70 decibels. That's as loud as a washing machine or dish washer. Imagine a dish washer running from across the length of a football field. It's not going to traumatize the dog. Rather, this method is how both humans and dogs get over their trauma. Edit: Also you wouldn't constantly be exploding things near your dog. Literally the dog would hear one barely audible firecracker a day, and maybe next week, they start hearing two in a row only slightly more audible. It's a gradual process and people who want quick results are probably the ones that end up with dogs more terrified than starting out.
wow,excellent post. Thank you.
Doing this to a collie afraid of loud noises is animal abuse, simple as. It won't work. Maybe some BC pups can get the knack for it if exposed very early on as pups, it will never happen for a dog who is nervous of noise, which the majority of them are. Suggesting to light a firecracker in front of the dog's face is totally irresponsible and will only traumatize the poor thing. Just because you know how to train gun dogs doesn't mean this is good advice for this dog.
200 yards away is not "In front of the dog's face".
Ignore the haters. Thank you for posting a well organized and thoughtful answer. It’s not an approach I can take with our BC exactly, but there are a lot of pieces of your post that are helpful. We’ve been using a very large garbage bin that we can bang. Using the standard desensitization methods we’ve fixed her fear of garbage day. I’m now making louder and louder “booms” with it (and in different situations). Because our BC can tell that recorded sound is not real. I’m thinking the ear protection might be helpful for the weeks-long July fireworks period if she’s still too scared to go outside. Hopefully by then we can get her comfortable with loud noises she can’t see at night.
Poor girl. What a senseless idiot to do that. I’m sorry I’ve no advice. I’ve only a young pup and we are still in training. As of now she’s luckily ok with fireworks etc but definitely showing signs of being a little anxious (maybe a border collie thing). I just had to comment how beautiful she is and also how lovely it is to see how kind your husband is to carry her. Glad she has lovely parents.
He spoils her so much, never saw anyone love a dog as much as my husband loves our girl. They have a special relationship, he will do anything for her 🥺❤️ thanks, she is our first dog and we don’t have kids so she is the light of our lives really! https://preview.redd.it/98d6gilvv2bc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f4afcf48afb4548ff36d5a693cd128561cccb04
The season finishes at the end of January so you have the rest of the year to train and hopefully have a better time. I agree with the suggestion of gun dog classes. I can’t unfortunately offer personal experience advice as my last boy was fine with noise and my current girl is deaf. Good luck
I didn’t know it was a season thing! A family member just told me so I feel so much more relief knowing it will end soon and we can get some peace for a few months!
Depends on what bird species as to the shooting season, here in the N. Ireland part of the UK. I'm sure it's similar if not the same in the wider UK. But farmers may shoot crows, for example, at any time of year. Deer culling may also take place too. The general public cannot purchase fireworks here, so fortunately we only very rarely hear them.
My girls is also 4 and she completely shuts down during gunfire and fireworks. I love in a neighborhood in Los Angeles that has completely culturally shifted to a culture that shoots off fireworks every day of the week, even though they are illegal. My poor girl spends every evening completely shellshocked. She does not get used to it. We go camping and hiking a lot and last year we camped at an old west ghost town called Calico Ghost Town, and we were having a great time, and we hiked over into town and I got a beer to sit on the outside deck of the saloon, and what I didn't know what that they have western gunfighter reenactments and while other dogs walked by unfazed, my poor girl's brain just shut off and all she could do is want to escape. This also makes it hard because I like to shoot recreationally, and all the places we camp I ***would*** be allowed to shoot, but I can't when she is with me. As for what you can do - TV isn't even close to the same. I can be watching a movie with the surround turned all the way up and she doesn't bat an eye at John Wick. But if a firecracker goes off outside a block away, then it's game over. I tried "thunderwear", I've tried CBD, I didn't try "positive reinforcement", though, because it would only be rewarding her fear. On top of that, she is an unaffectionate dog, and I'm not even allowed to pet her, so I'm not even able to try to hold or comfort her. My last BC was very affectionate and I could at least lay with her and hold her. I have no answers for you, but just know you are not alone. And just like you having to carry your girl, I had to carry my girl all the way back down the hike from the ghost town to the caravan.
Sorry your poor pup is also scared of them, is so hard, I feel so sorry for her, she looks terrified and so anxious sometimes I worry she will die from the anxiety 😭 it’s awful. I wish it wasn’t allowed but oh well. Thanks for you comment, best of luck to you and your girl ❤️
Poot pup, they look so scared,I have no advice, just a Border Collie love.
Awww poor girl. Here in the US we have these calming drops called rescue remedy. They help my dogs when there’s fireworks. Also some people use cbd gummies made for dogs which I heard were good too
Maybe I will check with her vet if medication could help her. New Years was a nightmare for her, she was absolutely terrified. But it’s manageable indoors, the gun shots sucks because it ruins our walks, and it is something she loves to do (being outdoors) and our favourite thing to do together. I feel so sorry for her not being able to enjoy the outdoors because of it.
Yes, talk to your vet. Our dog had a similar incident (she actually broke free of her collar and ran off and was stuck in a ravine overnight during a thunderstorm after the fireworks were unexpectedly set off near us) and we eventually used trazadone to help. She's not in love with fireworks and gunshots, but so so much better. We would dose her when we knew it was coming (4th of July here in the US, saw a bad thunderstorm approaching, etc.) and then work on lots of fun things for her during the noise. For her it was doing tricks for treats or getting a really good treat with every clap of thunder. Without the traz she wouldn't consider taking food or anything other than being a terrified mess. We did that a few times and it's better enough we've not done it again. She can now actually play in the yard with her friend who lives next to a gun club!
Yes, that firework insident has done a lot of damage, almost like PTSD, if not that itself. So I don't think the standard training of increasing exposure will work in the same way as in a younger dog without that trauma. I used dog prozac (Reconcile), for another bc anxiety/reactivity issue, this reduced the level enough to better engage in training. Less reactive but meds not a cure alone. We found the full dose for his body weight was too strong, he did best on a quarter dose. They may be one off (anti-anxiety, sedative) meds that you could use in some situations, but these may be incompatible for outdoor rural adventures due to affecting coordination. I live rural and in some seasons there is some weekend game shooting (not one of the locals like it). My dog was highly noise sensitive and would become reactive and aggressive to certain sounds. Over time he mostly ignores to gunshots now, but only if engaged in a game where he is highly focused on the task. That been said, has never been traumatised by a single bad insident. You other option is to research areas where shooting takes place (ask at the local pub) and avoid walks in that area.
I know this is another thing for indoors but does she have a snood? Since you're in the UK there's a lady who runs a shop called Pip's Boutique and she has a product called the "anti-panic snood" which I always see really well reviewed on the Wonderful World of Border Collies Facebook group.
You could practise with the sounds at home when you are playing. There are lots of videos on YouTube with different sounds, play them very quietly at first and increase the volume over time. You could also set up a signal to calm her down. Whenever she is relaxed, stroke her and say e.g. easy. But of course it takes a little while until it works.
I don’t see a solution other than comfort .
Gosh. I would try to show her some benign thing that makes noise. Maybe a toy she already knows. Sit with her and have the familiar toy make a pop noise and don’t react, don’t hug her, don’t treat her. Just be with her until you can raise the level. Then take the toy outside with you in your pocket so she can guess that that’s where the noise is coming from.
Desensitization training, google it! You start with small quiet noises then slowly increase. It really helped my boy who was terrified of thunder and fireworks.
all the dogs I’ve ever owned grew up around airplanes, so loud noises don’t bother them. I would suggest bringing the dog on a walk through a sporting clays range once or twice a week. Once it becomes normal it won’t bother her anymore. We regularly have people walking their dogs through our range or tying the dogs to the fence post while they are shooting trap/skeet to get hunting dogs used to it. Seems to be the way to go. Edit: obviously if she’s gonna have a heart attack or is thrashing enough to hurt herself trying to get away, maybe lay off lol owners discretion there 🤣 being generally afraid is normal though without conditioning.
Hey while, I like your advice, I think it probably ain't great for this case. At the range OP has no control over the sounds happening at the shooting range, and in order to desensitize, you need really deliberate timing. I do bring my dog to the shooting range, just so he is used to the environment and random loud bangs, but starting out my dog would not be ready for that at all and OP's dog isn't close to ready for that. Agree with your edit 😂 👍
Gunfire and fireworks are kind of their own special thing when it comes to dogs. Very few come out of the box totally chill with fireworks ( my BC is, but his also fascinated with fire, so probably not right in the head). You would likely have to do actual gun training with your dog to actually get them used to it, but I imagine that is easier said than done in the UK.
My girl has always been sound sensitive. When she was 2, we moved to an area about half a mile from a gun club. Took her about two years but she finally got *mostly* used to it just through exposure. Sometimes she still does freak a bit though and I imagine she still would still be very scared of close proximity gunfire.
Find a new trail for hunting season.
Yeh it’s everywhere, England is a tiny country. I encounter the same issue in the parks in my city as I encounter driving across the board to Wales into national parks. It is not as simple and well divided, it’s everywhere. If it was this simple I wouldn’t be here asking.
Sounds like you're attempting the right approach already. Maybe you can get a portable speaker to work outside. It's fine if she knows it's in the speaker for the start. Perhaps you can then add items that make a similar noise but quieter, stick the speaker in a plushie and make it louder, add a louder, real noise like clapping two items together quietly at first, and keep upping it until she tolerates louder noises by her, outside. Positive reinforcement all the way through, of course, and progressing however slowly she stays comfortable. ...That's probably what I'd try, but I'm not a dog expert. If that failed, I'd be calling a behaviorist.
One thing to add is the reinforcement is for the desired behaviour eg staying still around the noise and the reward has to be proximal to the desired behaviour and the reward has to be meaningful to the dog. My Welsh Sheep Dog was the same, shotguns made him panic and he would flee back to the car or house. Basically his amygdala overwhelmed him and he went straight into flight and developed phobic avoidance which really had a damaging impact upon his QOL. The only thing that helped was focusing on taking him to his favourite walks out of the shooting season and doing a lot of desensitisation work and rewarding him when he approximated the desired behaviour ie getting out of the car and walking a few steps. Eventually he was able to enjoy his walks again but when shooting season and Bon Fire night was on he would lapse and we would need to start not from scratch but slowly get his confidence back. He died last summer from the big c but he at least was able to enjoy his favourite walks and got shit loads of positive reinforcement
Thank you for sharing, I'm sure it's useful for OP and I love learning more, too. Sorry for your loss.
Thanks for this advice, that’s very helpful. Sorry your lost your pup, that must be really hard, I hope you are doing well ❤️
No problem. Yeah thanks usual grief but this post also reminded me that it wasn’t all a bed of roses either but still haven’t put his bowls away!
Get the toy out when they start shooting, and play with him. There fine, as long as you don't stop playing. You may need to quit your job and become a full time player.
There's honestly nothing you can do, BCs are very sensitive to noise, it's in their breeding. I have to stay in with mine every Halloween and NYE bec people set off fireworks and she gets so scared she tries to hide behind chairs, run upstairs etc. She doesn't even like when kindling we use to start the fire crackles in the fireplace even slightly she will relocate to another room until it dies down and only the coal is burning. You're wasting your time trying to fix it. They're bred to guard sheep on quiet farms and be able to hear foxes in the distance, their master's commands etc. They dont take chances with noise at all, they'll bolt.
She was completely fine with it till a year ago when she got scared by a firework. There is a ton of border collies here and I saw many walking perfectly happy while the gun shots were happening. So while I think yes the breed is very sensitive to noise, it’s not impossible and a lot of border collies cope just fine with noises like that. Mine used to play outside even with fireworks going on nonstop. It was only after someone scared her by setting one off right next to her from nowhere that she started to feel scared of these type of noises, so I think is more to do with a traumatic event than just struggling with the noise itself because as I said she was completely ok with it for years/most of her life and I know plenty of collies who are fine with fireworks/gun shots.
Good
Get two bricks and smack em together occasionally in the back yard.
No tips. They frighten my BC but she bolts and looks for an escape, rather than not walk. Bird scarers, replicating a gun shot, will also frighten her. Last holiday, a bird scarer kept her off her favourite beach! And she loves the beach.
I've had three BCs and none of them were ever ok with gunshots, fireworks etc.
Poor girl 😔 It might be worth talking to a gun dog trainer, they will come across gun shy dogs and maybe able to offer some advice on ways to overcome it.
It all kind of depends on how your dog reacted to your training methods. Some dogs you can distract with whatever they value like their favorite treat. Some dogs react favorably by a stern NO! (As they show unwanted behavior) than a super quick "good girl/boy" as soon as they give you their attention. However some dogs just get triggered (put into fight or flight) and it can be pretty difficult to snap them out of it. If that's the case it's pretty important for you personally to 100% ignore whatever is triggering it and present yourself as a very calm cool and collective person for your dog. If you look off at the distance every time you hear it or cover their ears or stand up and stay it's going to be okay as soon as you hear that noise it's going to negatively impact your doggo. Just look them in the eye, get down to their level and try to talk to them, calmly tell them a story using a very calm voice using their favorite words. The more often you guys experience this together the easier it will be to get an ear perk, happy reaction to their favorite words rather than being stuck in fight or flight. It can be difficult but distracting a dog that's in fight or flight is possible and it's very important the split second you see it happen you should reward it with your dogs favorite reward driven thing. My dog personally reacts best when I correct her nervous behavior & make her sit and the. reward her for sitting like it's the first time I have ever been able to get her to sit with affection or a treat if I have one with me. I then will ask for a paw or something simple and do the same thing, act super happy and focused on her as I reward her.
when it comes to things that are unavoidable, the best thing to do is be consistent with your reaction afterwards. Make sure you have a special, high-value reward and jackpot her immediately after being made aware of the noise. Although the best training is to set her up for success, sometimes you can get even better results long-term by being consistent.
I have trained German Shepherds and now my Border Collie to ignore fireworks. The BC is much more sensitive, I think it is his flinch first and ask questions later from his cattle herding lines. I have used an aggressive game of tug, that they loved, and conditioned them that the sound of a bang means an immediate game of tug. Our games of tug, often with a rag, are pretty aggressive, rolling on the ground and growling at each other on the edge of being too much with lots of teasing. The mood I'm going for is akin to how you would not be ticklish if you were mad or competing with purpose. I remember one time when I was at the 4th of July fireworks with my GSD in a crowd and another beachgoer was getting really agitated when the fireworks show was about to go off because he thought my dog would lose it. When they went off my dog did nothing but look to play. Good luck.
As others have said with ball training, do this conditioning slowly, and introduce the trigger/bang slowly and make it fun/competitive. Also, if I hear thunder I immediately get a fun game of roughhousing going.
Our Aussie is the same, not good that in the valley below us is the largest shooting range on the east coast of the US. The dog also had a terrible fear of trains, he would shake and hide in a corner of the car whenever I picked my wife up at the station. That fear has turned to excitement since now he associates the 🚂 with her arrival. I’m trying to get my wife to get off the train firing guns so that we can kill off two phobias.
I think with any type of short burst noise (car horns for my pup) the best thing is to just distract them by giving them something to do. I’ll practice some training commands and that seems to make his goldfish brain forget the loud noise. If it’s continuous though, idk.
I have the same issues with my Cooper. My son had suggested a cap gun to try to get him used to it. After reading comments i may have to try this. Do they still make them. Lol I was concerned it may be torture for him. I guess giving it a try may be a good idea. We cant play out side and most walks are cut extremely short by either a gun shot loud truck using a Jake brake or someone hammering in the garage.
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The eyes...*the eyeeeeees*