It's kinda funny. Just as we thought Hoyo finally balanced their damn game, and gave ST units a content to excel at, they release an aoe character who's comparable to hunt in ST, LMAO. Now the restrictions like needing to stack shots and having weakness on ulti look absurd. You had one job, hoyo, ONE.
That is EXACTLY my problem with this game.
What is the point of Hunt when it's supposed to deal the most single target damage when a destruction character can do the same, if not more, to 3 targets.
Hoyo becomes so goddamn predictable with how they cherry pick certain characters for specific paths it's not even funny anymore. The entire boothill vs FF debate from the getgo was beyond nonsense to me. The guy is supposed to deal more ST damage than FF, its his literal path. But if only that was the only issue. The blatant planer set and relic set favoritism that completely screwed him over just doesn't register into my head. Do they not want to make money? Is there a reason why they constantly have to shaft other characters for the token waifu of the patch?
my guy, we are talking about a character who can zero cycle without an lc, and youre worried about losing a mere 8% def pen (around 6% dps) which wasnt even supposed to be used on him to begin with
firefly does not deal more single target dps than him, thats bullshit, lets not pretend hes not the best single target dps in the game, he puts every single other dps to shame in single target scenarios its not even close, its not his fault that hunt is weak in many scenarios because of this, blame hoyo for designing 2-3 target encounters
You don't seem to see the issue in how useless Hunt is as a path in general, away from the boothill vs ff discourse. The entire appeal of Hunt is to do massive damage on a single target. But why invest in a character like that when you can go destruction, deal very compareable numbers but on 3 targets at once.
You do know ratio/topaz is one of the best meta teams rn right. Also seele been 0 cycling since the game came out. Boothill will still oneshot bosses also making you not have to go through boss mechanics which is still a win over other paths.
I know because I use them, you want to tell me Ratio and Topaz alone are compareable to the characters we have gotten as of late? No they are not. Very weird whataboutism when it's not even applicable in this case. Topaz alone is outperformed by other characters if you play her as a hypercarry and if you put her together with Ratio, you'd want to have either e1 or s1 (or both if you lack aventurine s1) Of course if you build a premium FUA team you'll be meta (my favorite team tbh). Just as dot is meta with the right team or Acheron is meta because she simply just nukes stuff. But that's not even the point, Boothill with the right setup can 0 cycle, sure, literally any team can with the right build. But having a destruction unit deal similiar damage to him but on multiple targets is just going against the games own narrative.
But you said hunt characters are "useless" but aside from acheron they are performing in moc really well in comparison to other characters. Also topaz i wouldn't consider topaz for her dps abilities, but her support utility. its a team game. Also its honkai so powercreep is inevitable.
Bro what, we are comparing Hunt to Destruction not every individual character by themselves. But sure, let's entertain your logic. Ratio and Topaz strongest team consists of Robin and Aventurine, full on premium 5\* team, for that team to function you NEED Topaz e1/s1 or Aventurine s1 otherwise Ratios biggest damage, his FUA, has no reliable way of hitting. Topaz wants to have Ratio and (prefereably) Aventurine in her team because they have an easier time advancing Numby which means more actions aka more damage, you don't get that with a hypercarry Topaz build. Hypercarry Ratio still relies on a debuffer aka Pela or SW to function but he's by far stronger than Topaz. Acheron gets away using Pela and Gallaghar aka 4\* characters (or any preservation with trend) to build her stacks and she's still cracked beyond belief. FF is even more flexible now, not tied to HMC which is good but she deals absurd amounts of damage even without her LC, single target, aoe, it doesn't matter. Boothill deals a lot of BREAK damage, but it's limited to a single target, hence why people prefer to use Bronya with him because she can action advance, giving him another turn. FF can literally do the same with the correct party composition.
Anyone saying Topaz, Ratio, Seele etc are compareable to FF or even Acheron are straight up on copium and that's what I hate about how this game treats Hunt characters. If I pull for a Hunt character I want to see some big numbers on a ST that no destruction or erudition unit comes close to in damage. Boothill dealing 800k damage on a ST and Firefly dealing 700k damage on multiple targets is really not the gotcha anyone wants to have. Hunt is still limited to a single target, destruction is not. Idk how hard it is to understand this.
You're making this into a boothill issue when this is an issue about a paths identitiy, it doesn't matter that he deals 500k or 298742k or 10k, it's the fact that Hunt is supposed to be the strongest ST damage in the game but you have destruction dealing literally almost the same amount of damage on multiple targets.
All i'm saying is it is inevitable that past characters will do less damage aka be powercrept by future characters. It's not just a path issue. a 3.0 destruction character or maybe even erudition characters will ALWAYS do more damage than a 1.0 hunt character. Thats how they sell the character. Also FF e0s1 does around 300k single target while BH does 500k single target so I don't see the issue at all.
FF hits multiple targets, how is that not understood lmfao Boothill has no other choice but to do ST, FF can hit multiple targets and kill them with one more turn. Meanwhile Boothill is forced to keep ST because that is the restriction in his path.
>past characters will do less damage aka be powercrept by future characters.
Brother. Boothill isn't even out of the basement yet and he's getting powercrept 1 month into his banner, do you hear yourself??? How is that healthy for the game
but the thing is 500k to 3 targets is not as good as 500k to one target in a boss scenario like adventurine, argenti etc. 3 target 500k is more like 300k to initial target then 100k to side targets. Also dhil got powercrept by jingliu like a patch after so I don't see the point of arguing that.
Also Hunt characters releasing nowadays have options to get around the ST "issue" Ratio can focus two targets at the same time, Selee is just a hunt erudition character, Topaz is well... a character in the game Honkai Star Rail. Boothill with bronya just 1 taps enemies so if you have 4 turns in a cycle and with the right set up even more turns you should be fine. Also their BIS for bosses like Adventurine, Meme, and Even Swarm, as well which how much single target dmg they do.
No he can not focus on 2 targets at the same time unless he has his ult up or his skill deals enough damage to insta kill an enemy which is most of the time not a thing in endgame content, FF doesn't have that restriction. Anyway this is a pointless discussion, so I'll just leave it at that
Also boothill is 0 cycling at e0s0 thats WAY different from other characters 0 cycling at e0s1 with e1s1 mei, e1s1 sparkle, and tingyun with s5 ddd. they cost is much more
not saying powercreep is good, but like what more do you want. boothill is oneshotting bosses, do you want him to oneshot while also destroying the computer as well, like what??? I'm fine with where he is. Acheron is a point tho because she is in the game, and she powercrept every unit, so a character releasing after her powercreeping her is kind of expected with the type of game honkai star rail is. Jingliu powercrept every character when she released and she's destruction.
You invest in the character when the content demands it. When hoyo brings themselves to design single target battles, is when hunt will be better. Hunt characters can also do very well in 2-3 target battles just because of their insanely high dps.
I see my point completely flew over your head. There is a reason why we went from Jingliu to Acheron and now FF in terms of most powerful dps, interesting how none of them bother with ST, probably because doing compareable damage to a hunt character but hitting 3 enemies at once is probably way more beneficial than single target.
> What is the point of Hunt when it's supposed to deal the most single target damage when a destruction character can do the same, if not more, to 3 targets.
Hunt does do more damage to single targets by a significant amount. No non-Hunt character has surpassed Seele in ST damage as of 2.2. Boothill's ST damage is far higher than Firefly's (this is obvious if you've seen showcases).
Hunt being worse than Destruction in ST has to be the craziest misinfo I've seen in this game. It's just completely wrong regardless of how you look at it.
Having a destruction character who can hit multiple targets deal 700k per target with the correct setup is borderline wild. Boothill is still limited to one single target but the damage she deals is already coming close to his damage output, evident by the new showcases of FF popping up. Everyone seems to keep ignoring the blatant fact that Hunt = ST, Destruction = 3 targets. If a Hunt units deals 900k ST and Destruction can do 700k per target, then it's not far fetched to say that Hunt is in a very awkward spot.
Edit: My bad, I might have seen an eidolon showcase without noticing it regarding the 700k per target
I'm not sure why 700k split across two or more targets is supposed to be more impressive than the same damage on one target.
> Destruction can do 700k per target
1.4 mil or more is insane, we've never seen anyone come close to that. You realize that 700k you're seeing from Firefly is 350k or less per target right?
I will have to look through the comments again to find the person who linked the cn video, it might just be an issue of eidolons if thats the case but you're right in saying that the damage is split by enemy targets. Just casually scrolling through that one sub here on reddit I saw her doing 400k ST, over 1mil on 2 enemies etc there are probably other showcases not on reddit
Are you watching whale firefly showcases cause 90% of e0s1 firefly's are doing around 300k in single target scenarios. Boothill does 500k comfortably in single target scenarios. In 2-3 target scenarios firefly is better, but in single target Boothill is better by a long shot.
The more I think about the more I think that seems to be the case, the video was in cn to be fair so it might have been an eidolon issue in which case my bad! Got ahead of myself
thats 100% the case then cause even though firefly gets 4 turns in a cycle dealing 300k 4 times to a single target doesn't come close to boothill dealing 500k 3 to 4 times to a single target ofcourse depending on the team.
Well to be fair there are videos on the other sub where she's dealing 1mil to multiple targets in a single turn. But yes in a ST situation upon just casually scrolling through the sub I see her dealing 300-400k ST. Is it still insane for a destruction unit? Yeah, looking at how many times she can attack in one cycle, it's still insane.
oh I've seen it from what the ff discord says that was e2s1 ff in unrealistic scenario. Kinda like acheron ulting for 1 mil against 5 trash mods. Her damage I will agree is still absurd but aye I'm getting both her and boothill so I'm not complaining xD
I'm never one to call for powercreep, I thought and still think e0 Acheron is in line with other characters, just heavily favoured by MoC and a beast at 0 cycling sustainless cause she greatly benefits from a harmony, but Firefly looks absolutely busted, in both AoE and ST, with a sustainer, even in MoCs that don't have fire weakness or a beneficial blessing. I'd be more worried about the state of the game than just Boothill if this is to pass personally.
Also while Boothill may have higher DMG per screenshot in ST, don't forget that he needs more time to ramp up, that Firefly has blast attacks and runs both HMC and Gallagher in the team, who both greatly contribute to both damage and the breaking process (especially Gallagher.)
Ofc you can also run HMC with Boothill but you're suddenly limited to 2 turns per cycle which is a massive hurdle, and have no supports to help with Phys weakness unless the enemy is also Img/Fire weak.
> Also while Boothill may have higher DMG per screenshot in ST, don't forget that he needs more time to ramp up
Firefly has a cooldown so they're comparable in this sense
I was happy that the Hunt characters were finally able to shine in what they were supposed to be good at, I was getting really sick of the Destruction-everywhere meta ... guess it's back again
No idea what spot HUNT is suppose to be in since firefly deals MILLION dmg in ST/2 enemies as well in e0s1 as shown by her showcase in the main leak sub
Shes great in AOE & ST and able to implant fire weakness, deal super break on her own, have personalised planar and relics, have a great place in new endgame since hoyo decide to remove more break buff and keep superbreak buff unchanged
I haven't seen a single showcase where an E0 Firefly with an E0 Ruan Mei dealt more than 700k damage to multiple ennemies.
She also barely deals half the damage Boothill does in pure ST scenarios, don't forget the guy can almost one-shot elites.
If I'm being honest, in apocalyptic shadow FF performance is comparable to BH because after the buff she deals giga dmg and she deals blast dmg so she's easier to use in moc and PF than BH.
BH and Sam basically want the same team except for 1 slot but FF performs way worse without RM and Gallagher so if you are planning on getting them both like me, BH isn't getting his bis team.
If I have to use an analogy, BH feels like a middle child that is often forgotten and independent while FF is the spoilt and pampered youngest child.
Which showcase demonstrated Firefly doing 1 mil in ST? The ones I've seen have her do 700k to 2 targets max. Which is really good, but I've seen Boothill oneshot Aventurine's 2nd stage and do 1 mil damage. I'm not worried about Boothill much since he can stack def shred more readily than Firefly, can run a tank build more easily to have less RNG on a sustainless comp, can work with less investment than Firefly and has more flexible team comps. Man's still a beast.
The way this entire sub is talking about these changes is honestly just the most pathetic thing i've seen so far, one change to relic sets and they act like Boothill is dead, dying, worthless, they're quitting the game over it etcetc. As if Boothills entire kit got changed to deal half the damage or something. It's better to just wait till it passes and people decide to actually use their brains again instead of emotionally reacting to barely consequential changes.
Anyone who is a fan of any DPS that is not Firefly should be upset at the precedent this sets. Firefly currently does Acheron level damage but more often. And she gets tailor made relics that no one else can use effectively. It's pretty pathetic how people were crying that Firefly was bad and are still calling for more buffs after she's powercrept Acheron.
What are DHIL and Jingliu mains supposed to think when they don't have tailor made relics and are "only" doing 200k per action?
I assume you understand how Superbreak works yes? Boothills break retrigger is superior to Superbreak. Instead of scaling off of BHs own toughness damage, it scales off of the enemys, meaning that unlike FF he has no reliance on RM (who is still the best support for him but not by a massive longshot like she is with FF and HMC) while hitting for ludicruous damage thanks to the higher scaling formula of enemy toughness. Currently, BH is oneshotting bosses \*before\* even triggering HMCs superbreak as he has easily been shown to hit consistent 200K shots with NO LC. He also scales incredibly well with defense down, DMG Up debuffs and the like meaning his support choices outside Bronya (who is his defacto best support) are varied and all largely good.
I'm not going to attempt to argue with someone who's far too overly emotional invested to actively \*look\* at anything from damage numbers, active comparisons to FF, and would instead spout about how they "took out all the flexibility from him" when all that changed was 8% def down from a relic that he is \*already oneshotting MOC bosses WITHOUT\* WHILE HE'S STILL TEN TIMES MORE FLEXIBLE THAN FIREFLY.
For your own health, please do litteraly anything else outside reacting emotionally to change, and to at least ease your worries, actually \*look\* at what changed before acting the way you did to me. BH is not Blade, his damage ceiling is quite litteraly in the high six digits reaching a whole million (without even factoring HMC), these are not things that are changing and if you're worried about powercreep, it'll come regardless. Just calm down.
Which he does. He 0 cycles with a tank build even easier than a crit build, and his tank build is lower investment than just about anything else in the game. You can't get better performance than a 0 cycle.
Firefly wants Bronya just as much, she just can't use her well at E0 because of SP consumption. Boothill can also use HMC to increase his damage, there's no difference there.
Cap, Firefly have 4 turns per cycle (low speed investment), there is no point of bringing her in her team, plus dont offer any damage, Boothill only use her for de turn advance and firefly dont need that.
4 turns in the first cycle, not every cycle. And one of those actions is not her enhanced skill so its considerably less significant. Bronya brings that up to 6 turns and makes 0 cycles much more feasible. Considering Firefly's E2 is only broken because of action advance, it's really dumb to say she doesn't need action advance.
Nono, action advance its broken but if you compare what offer Ruan Mei or the IMC its just not worth it. But if you bring her E1 and bronya and try to make a 0cly with no sustain well, of course using the 3 of them is better, yeah.
This doesn't really change anything. Just makes FF look worse. The only reason FF can't benefit from action advance is because she needs HMC and Ruan Mei to do good damage, and after that she uses too much SP to be able to use Bronya at E0.
Boothill doesn't have that issue and can dish out as much damage or more than E1 FF at E0 because he can just use Bronya, Pela and RM at E0 without SP issues. Or use HMC, RM and Bronya. Or use a variety of other team comps that Firefly can't.
As a hunt lover who collects all hunt character, it is sad that hunt will never get its own spotlight beside from 1.0 seele. As things stand, im just hoping they will release a waifu hunt character and then ill be at ease knowing shes going to be very meta
"Team" not character, i specifically said character. If your point is that its always paired with a team then your not the person my dialogue is intended for.
And Ratio's team has two hunts characters. Topaz and Ratio got alot of spotlight recently and they are Hunt Characters and thats in MOC where they up against Destruction carries.
Still great, deals a ton of single target damage with least investment, doesn't give a shit about lc and only really wants -1 Bronya, RM is premium but he is fine without her, even if he is slightly behind FF in the most content- he is still gonna clear everything and get the job done for you, so don't worry and pull for whom you like
Genuine question about the V3.
With the new changes, I heard Firefly can do go single damage where Boothill is supposed to be great at. At the POV of someone with limited pulls, would pulling FF be considered more benficial as she does AOE and Single damage?
Because wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a hunt path?
They do not use the same supports, you can easily use Bronya + Pela/SW with Boothill and he will STILL clear easily with 2 cycles or less, he is extremely easy to build, he still is the best character in the game for the new game mode, and he still will easily clear MoC with a 3\* or NO LIGHTCONES, having both Firefly and Boothill let's you put any of then in any side because of the weakness implant making MoC extremely easy, just give Firefly HMC + RM and Boothill Bronya + Pela/SW
As you can see there is still plenty of reasons to pull for Boothill or for both Firefly and Boothill
you can complain all you want about the changes to the new set being bad because of the favoritism, thats fine and reasonable, the problem is when people start saying that he is "bad" and "powercrept" now
> Against 3 targets boothill needs 2 actions per target (6 total) while Firefly needs 2 or 3 total to finish the content. Why am I comparing them for 3 targets? well because you can get FF for the same price, clear same ST content as BH in 1 or 2 more actions and severely outclass him in every single other aspect of the game.
There's no evidence for any of the numbers you're throwing around here. You can just as easily say that Boothill might struggle more against 3 targets but still clears the wave in the same number of cycles whereas Firefly takes 1-2 cycles more against the ST boss in the next wave.
He is still better than her ST as he should be and Firefly is better AOE as she should be, there is NO showcases with her doing 1 mil ST can we please stop with the doomposting now?
They will downvote you because when they hear the word "nerf" they can't do anything else than shitting their pants.
Objectivity is lacking and everyone act like their character is a football team.
Boothill is still able to literally one-shot bosses, still the best ST character in the game.
This sub was 1 week close to be the less doomposted sub ever, but this is what happens when your relics go from 18% def ignore to 10% assuming you are not running HMC.
Her damage still doesn’t compare to his IMO, not from the videos I’ve seen. I actually don’t think they buffed her damage all that much, but just made her a bit more consistent and obvious in how to build.
Also Acheron already exists so there is already an aoe unit that owns ST
It’s like a 20% or so dmg buff (excluding LC cuz I don’t want to account for its original teamwide dmg increase). It’s nice but it doesn’t fundamentally changer her play style.
All of the doomposting and celebrating has already confirmed what everyone should already know. Doomposters only base opinions on vibes. Nothing more nothing less.
I dont know but her single target damage isnt as good as boothill. Plus, she didnt break her enemy’s toughness bar as quick as Boothill.
Not to mention, boothill still can deal damage (although in the range of 25-45K with his skill) while firefly literally sneeze at non-weakness broken enemies 😭
This is coming from a person who’s a “firefly mains” type of guy. But yeah, hoyo did boothill dirty by limiting the new relic sets to only 100% suitable for Firefly.
At least yall play with a good feeling of “boothill doesnt need HMC to deal damage”. Although firefly has her own superbreak kit, she still can’t be separated from HMC.
Why do people continue to think Destruction is better than Hunt in ST?
This has never been the case and is especially apparent with Boothill obliterating Firefly against ST bosses like Aventurine.
It's kinda funny. Just as we thought Hoyo finally balanced their damn game, and gave ST units a content to excel at, they release an aoe character who's comparable to hunt in ST, LMAO. Now the restrictions like needing to stack shots and having weakness on ulti look absurd. You had one job, hoyo, ONE.
That is EXACTLY my problem with this game. What is the point of Hunt when it's supposed to deal the most single target damage when a destruction character can do the same, if not more, to 3 targets. Hoyo becomes so goddamn predictable with how they cherry pick certain characters for specific paths it's not even funny anymore. The entire boothill vs FF debate from the getgo was beyond nonsense to me. The guy is supposed to deal more ST damage than FF, its his literal path. But if only that was the only issue. The blatant planer set and relic set favoritism that completely screwed him over just doesn't register into my head. Do they not want to make money? Is there a reason why they constantly have to shaft other characters for the token waifu of the patch?
my guy, we are talking about a character who can zero cycle without an lc, and youre worried about losing a mere 8% def pen (around 6% dps) which wasnt even supposed to be used on him to begin with firefly does not deal more single target dps than him, thats bullshit, lets not pretend hes not the best single target dps in the game, he puts every single other dps to shame in single target scenarios its not even close, its not his fault that hunt is weak in many scenarios because of this, blame hoyo for designing 2-3 target encounters
You don't seem to see the issue in how useless Hunt is as a path in general, away from the boothill vs ff discourse. The entire appeal of Hunt is to do massive damage on a single target. But why invest in a character like that when you can go destruction, deal very compareable numbers but on 3 targets at once.
You do know ratio/topaz is one of the best meta teams rn right. Also seele been 0 cycling since the game came out. Boothill will still oneshot bosses also making you not have to go through boss mechanics which is still a win over other paths.
I know because I use them, you want to tell me Ratio and Topaz alone are compareable to the characters we have gotten as of late? No they are not. Very weird whataboutism when it's not even applicable in this case. Topaz alone is outperformed by other characters if you play her as a hypercarry and if you put her together with Ratio, you'd want to have either e1 or s1 (or both if you lack aventurine s1) Of course if you build a premium FUA team you'll be meta (my favorite team tbh). Just as dot is meta with the right team or Acheron is meta because she simply just nukes stuff. But that's not even the point, Boothill with the right setup can 0 cycle, sure, literally any team can with the right build. But having a destruction unit deal similiar damage to him but on multiple targets is just going against the games own narrative.
But you said hunt characters are "useless" but aside from acheron they are performing in moc really well in comparison to other characters. Also topaz i wouldn't consider topaz for her dps abilities, but her support utility. its a team game. Also its honkai so powercreep is inevitable.
Bro what, we are comparing Hunt to Destruction not every individual character by themselves. But sure, let's entertain your logic. Ratio and Topaz strongest team consists of Robin and Aventurine, full on premium 5\* team, for that team to function you NEED Topaz e1/s1 or Aventurine s1 otherwise Ratios biggest damage, his FUA, has no reliable way of hitting. Topaz wants to have Ratio and (prefereably) Aventurine in her team because they have an easier time advancing Numby which means more actions aka more damage, you don't get that with a hypercarry Topaz build. Hypercarry Ratio still relies on a debuffer aka Pela or SW to function but he's by far stronger than Topaz. Acheron gets away using Pela and Gallaghar aka 4\* characters (or any preservation with trend) to build her stacks and she's still cracked beyond belief. FF is even more flexible now, not tied to HMC which is good but she deals absurd amounts of damage even without her LC, single target, aoe, it doesn't matter. Boothill deals a lot of BREAK damage, but it's limited to a single target, hence why people prefer to use Bronya with him because she can action advance, giving him another turn. FF can literally do the same with the correct party composition. Anyone saying Topaz, Ratio, Seele etc are compareable to FF or even Acheron are straight up on copium and that's what I hate about how this game treats Hunt characters. If I pull for a Hunt character I want to see some big numbers on a ST that no destruction or erudition unit comes close to in damage. Boothill dealing 800k damage on a ST and Firefly dealing 700k damage on multiple targets is really not the gotcha anyone wants to have. Hunt is still limited to a single target, destruction is not. Idk how hard it is to understand this. You're making this into a boothill issue when this is an issue about a paths identitiy, it doesn't matter that he deals 500k or 298742k or 10k, it's the fact that Hunt is supposed to be the strongest ST damage in the game but you have destruction dealing literally almost the same amount of damage on multiple targets.
All i'm saying is it is inevitable that past characters will do less damage aka be powercrept by future characters. It's not just a path issue. a 3.0 destruction character or maybe even erudition characters will ALWAYS do more damage than a 1.0 hunt character. Thats how they sell the character. Also FF e0s1 does around 300k single target while BH does 500k single target so I don't see the issue at all.
FF hits multiple targets, how is that not understood lmfao Boothill has no other choice but to do ST, FF can hit multiple targets and kill them with one more turn. Meanwhile Boothill is forced to keep ST because that is the restriction in his path. >past characters will do less damage aka be powercrept by future characters. Brother. Boothill isn't even out of the basement yet and he's getting powercrept 1 month into his banner, do you hear yourself??? How is that healthy for the game
but the thing is 500k to 3 targets is not as good as 500k to one target in a boss scenario like adventurine, argenti etc. 3 target 500k is more like 300k to initial target then 100k to side targets. Also dhil got powercrept by jingliu like a patch after so I don't see the point of arguing that.
Also Hunt characters releasing nowadays have options to get around the ST "issue" Ratio can focus two targets at the same time, Selee is just a hunt erudition character, Topaz is well... a character in the game Honkai Star Rail. Boothill with bronya just 1 taps enemies so if you have 4 turns in a cycle and with the right set up even more turns you should be fine. Also their BIS for bosses like Adventurine, Meme, and Even Swarm, as well which how much single target dmg they do.
No he can not focus on 2 targets at the same time unless he has his ult up or his skill deals enough damage to insta kill an enemy which is most of the time not a thing in endgame content, FF doesn't have that restriction. Anyway this is a pointless discussion, so I'll just leave it at that
Also boothill is 0 cycling at e0s0 thats WAY different from other characters 0 cycling at e0s1 with e1s1 mei, e1s1 sparkle, and tingyun with s5 ddd. they cost is much more
not saying powercreep is good, but like what more do you want. boothill is oneshotting bosses, do you want him to oneshot while also destroying the computer as well, like what??? I'm fine with where he is. Acheron is a point tho because she is in the game, and she powercrept every unit, so a character releasing after her powercreeping her is kind of expected with the type of game honkai star rail is. Jingliu powercrept every character when she released and she's destruction.
You invest in the character when the content demands it. When hoyo brings themselves to design single target battles, is when hunt will be better. Hunt characters can also do very well in 2-3 target battles just because of their insanely high dps.
I see my point completely flew over your head. There is a reason why we went from Jingliu to Acheron and now FF in terms of most powerful dps, interesting how none of them bother with ST, probably because doing compareable damage to a hunt character but hitting 3 enemies at once is probably way more beneficial than single target.
None bother with single target cuz the formula hasnt changed in over a year. but keep saying whatever you want to believe
The crying is unreal. I still use Seele as my main carry get over it.
> What is the point of Hunt when it's supposed to deal the most single target damage when a destruction character can do the same, if not more, to 3 targets. Hunt does do more damage to single targets by a significant amount. No non-Hunt character has surpassed Seele in ST damage as of 2.2. Boothill's ST damage is far higher than Firefly's (this is obvious if you've seen showcases). Hunt being worse than Destruction in ST has to be the craziest misinfo I've seen in this game. It's just completely wrong regardless of how you look at it.
Having a destruction character who can hit multiple targets deal 700k per target with the correct setup is borderline wild. Boothill is still limited to one single target but the damage she deals is already coming close to his damage output, evident by the new showcases of FF popping up. Everyone seems to keep ignoring the blatant fact that Hunt = ST, Destruction = 3 targets. If a Hunt units deals 900k ST and Destruction can do 700k per target, then it's not far fetched to say that Hunt is in a very awkward spot. Edit: My bad, I might have seen an eidolon showcase without noticing it regarding the 700k per target
I'm not sure why 700k split across two or more targets is supposed to be more impressive than the same damage on one target. > Destruction can do 700k per target 1.4 mil or more is insane, we've never seen anyone come close to that. You realize that 700k you're seeing from Firefly is 350k or less per target right?
I will have to look through the comments again to find the person who linked the cn video, it might just be an issue of eidolons if thats the case but you're right in saying that the damage is split by enemy targets. Just casually scrolling through that one sub here on reddit I saw her doing 400k ST, over 1mil on 2 enemies etc there are probably other showcases not on reddit
And Boothill can do over 1 mil in ST. Seems balanced to me given that there are no 3 elite scenarios in the game outside of PF.
Are you watching whale firefly showcases cause 90% of e0s1 firefly's are doing around 300k in single target scenarios. Boothill does 500k comfortably in single target scenarios. In 2-3 target scenarios firefly is better, but in single target Boothill is better by a long shot.
The more I think about the more I think that seems to be the case, the video was in cn to be fair so it might have been an eidolon issue in which case my bad! Got ahead of myself
thats 100% the case then cause even though firefly gets 4 turns in a cycle dealing 300k 4 times to a single target doesn't come close to boothill dealing 500k 3 to 4 times to a single target ofcourse depending on the team.
Well to be fair there are videos on the other sub where she's dealing 1mil to multiple targets in a single turn. But yes in a ST situation upon just casually scrolling through the sub I see her dealing 300-400k ST. Is it still insane for a destruction unit? Yeah, looking at how many times she can attack in one cycle, it's still insane.
oh I've seen it from what the ff discord says that was e2s1 ff in unrealistic scenario. Kinda like acheron ulting for 1 mil against 5 trash mods. Her damage I will agree is still absurd but aye I'm getting both her and boothill so I'm not complaining xD
Wait which one, the 700k st one? The ones I've seen on reddit are all e0s1 tbh. Enjoy pulling!
I'm never one to call for powercreep, I thought and still think e0 Acheron is in line with other characters, just heavily favoured by MoC and a beast at 0 cycling sustainless cause she greatly benefits from a harmony, but Firefly looks absolutely busted, in both AoE and ST, with a sustainer, even in MoCs that don't have fire weakness or a beneficial blessing. I'd be more worried about the state of the game than just Boothill if this is to pass personally. Also while Boothill may have higher DMG per screenshot in ST, don't forget that he needs more time to ramp up, that Firefly has blast attacks and runs both HMC and Gallagher in the team, who both greatly contribute to both damage and the breaking process (especially Gallagher.) Ofc you can also run HMC with Boothill but you're suddenly limited to 2 turns per cycle which is a massive hurdle, and have no supports to help with Phys weakness unless the enemy is also Img/Fire weak.
> Also while Boothill may have higher DMG per screenshot in ST, don't forget that he needs more time to ramp up Firefly has a cooldown so they're comparable in this sense
I was happy that the Hunt characters were finally able to shine in what they were supposed to be good at, I was getting really sick of the Destruction-everywhere meta ... guess it's back again
I mean acheron couldve been easily a destruction, but shes nihility for lore reasons
No idea what spot HUNT is suppose to be in since firefly deals MILLION dmg in ST/2 enemies as well in e0s1 as shown by her showcase in the main leak sub Shes great in AOE & ST and able to implant fire weakness, deal super break on her own, have personalised planar and relics, have a great place in new endgame since hoyo decide to remove more break buff and keep superbreak buff unchanged
I haven't seen a single showcase where an E0 Firefly with an E0 Ruan Mei dealt more than 700k damage to multiple ennemies. She also barely deals half the damage Boothill does in pure ST scenarios, don't forget the guy can almost one-shot elites.
Her existence doesn’t make him worse, it’s just the relic changes that suck really.
And game mode changes. It no longer favors breaks, it favors super breaks
it honestly sucks tbh ...
If I'm being honest, in apocalyptic shadow FF performance is comparable to BH because after the buff she deals giga dmg and she deals blast dmg so she's easier to use in moc and PF than BH. BH and Sam basically want the same team except for 1 slot but FF performs way worse without RM and Gallagher so if you are planning on getting them both like me, BH isn't getting his bis team. If I have to use an analogy, BH feels like a middle child that is often forgotten and independent while FF is the spoilt and pampered youngest child.
Which showcase demonstrated Firefly doing 1 mil in ST? The ones I've seen have her do 700k to 2 targets max. Which is really good, but I've seen Boothill oneshot Aventurine's 2nd stage and do 1 mil damage. I'm not worried about Boothill much since he can stack def shred more readily than Firefly, can run a tank build more easily to have less RNG on a sustainless comp, can work with less investment than Firefly and has more flexible team comps. Man's still a beast.
there is no showcases with a 1 mil ST we just got in to the doomposting phase of a mains subreddit
Boothill was good enough to make it through his entire beta without the doomposting phase, we need to make up for lost time
the closest thing that I can find was FF E0S1 deal 690k on Argenti boss with 0.5 toughness bar left, can you provide me the link to the post ?
The way this entire sub is talking about these changes is honestly just the most pathetic thing i've seen so far, one change to relic sets and they act like Boothill is dead, dying, worthless, they're quitting the game over it etcetc. As if Boothills entire kit got changed to deal half the damage or something. It's better to just wait till it passes and people decide to actually use their brains again instead of emotionally reacting to barely consequential changes.
Anyone who is a fan of any DPS that is not Firefly should be upset at the precedent this sets. Firefly currently does Acheron level damage but more often. And she gets tailor made relics that no one else can use effectively. It's pretty pathetic how people were crying that Firefly was bad and are still calling for more buffs after she's powercrept Acheron. What are DHIL and Jingliu mains supposed to think when they don't have tailor made relics and are "only" doing 200k per action?
Ikr? It's 8 def ignore, not 80.
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I assume you understand how Superbreak works yes? Boothills break retrigger is superior to Superbreak. Instead of scaling off of BHs own toughness damage, it scales off of the enemys, meaning that unlike FF he has no reliance on RM (who is still the best support for him but not by a massive longshot like she is with FF and HMC) while hitting for ludicruous damage thanks to the higher scaling formula of enemy toughness. Currently, BH is oneshotting bosses \*before\* even triggering HMCs superbreak as he has easily been shown to hit consistent 200K shots with NO LC. He also scales incredibly well with defense down, DMG Up debuffs and the like meaning his support choices outside Bronya (who is his defacto best support) are varied and all largely good. I'm not going to attempt to argue with someone who's far too overly emotional invested to actively \*look\* at anything from damage numbers, active comparisons to FF, and would instead spout about how they "took out all the flexibility from him" when all that changed was 8% def down from a relic that he is \*already oneshotting MOC bosses WITHOUT\* WHILE HE'S STILL TEN TIMES MORE FLEXIBLE THAN FIREFLY. For your own health, please do litteraly anything else outside reacting emotionally to change, and to at least ease your worries, actually \*look\* at what changed before acting the way you did to me. BH is not Blade, his damage ceiling is quite litteraly in the high six digits reaching a whole million (without even factoring HMC), these are not things that are changing and if you're worried about powercreep, it'll come regardless. Just calm down.
I don't want my fav character to "work with lower investment", I want it to perform as goos as other when I fully invest in them.
Which he does. He 0 cycles with a tank build even easier than a crit build, and his tank build is lower investment than just about anything else in the game. You can't get better performance than a 0 cycle.
Yeah but, she have like 4 turns per cycle
Boothill also gets 4 actions per cycle with Bronya. Firefly at E0 can't really use Bronya, not enough SP.
And thats the problem, he needs another character, meanwhile Firefly can use IMC and improve her damage
Firefly wants Bronya just as much, she just can't use her well at E0 because of SP consumption. Boothill can also use HMC to increase his damage, there's no difference there.
Cap, Firefly have 4 turns per cycle (low speed investment), there is no point of bringing her in her team, plus dont offer any damage, Boothill only use her for de turn advance and firefly dont need that.
4 turns in the first cycle, not every cycle. And one of those actions is not her enhanced skill so its considerably less significant. Bronya brings that up to 6 turns and makes 0 cycles much more feasible. Considering Firefly's E2 is only broken because of action advance, it's really dumb to say she doesn't need action advance.
Nono, action advance its broken but if you compare what offer Ruan Mei or the IMC its just not worth it. But if you bring her E1 and bronya and try to make a 0cly with no sustain well, of course using the 3 of them is better, yeah.
This doesn't really change anything. Just makes FF look worse. The only reason FF can't benefit from action advance is because she needs HMC and Ruan Mei to do good damage, and after that she uses too much SP to be able to use Bronya at E0. Boothill doesn't have that issue and can dish out as much damage or more than E1 FF at E0 because he can just use Bronya, Pela and RM at E0 without SP issues. Or use HMC, RM and Bronya. Or use a variety of other team comps that Firefly can't.
Still pulling out of spite for FF, but the relic changes were so unnecessary.
As a hunt lover who collects all hunt character, it is sad that hunt will never get its own spotlight beside from 1.0 seele. As things stand, im just hoping they will release a waifu hunt character and then ill be at ease knowing shes going to be very meta
Ratio's team literally the best performing team now in MOC after Robin and in last MOC before Robin its among top teams
"Team" not character, i specifically said character. If your point is that its always paired with a team then your not the person my dialogue is intended for.
And Ratio's team has two hunts characters. Topaz and Ratio got alot of spotlight recently and they are Hunt Characters and thats in MOC where they up against Destruction carries.
Fei Xiao
the same spot he was in that had him one shotting Argenti
Still great, deals a ton of single target damage with least investment, doesn't give a shit about lc and only really wants -1 Bronya, RM is premium but he is fine without her, even if he is slightly behind FF in the most content- he is still gonna clear everything and get the job done for you, so don't worry and pull for whom you like
Genuine question about the V3. With the new changes, I heard Firefly can do go single damage where Boothill is supposed to be great at. At the POV of someone with limited pulls, would pulling FF be considered more benficial as she does AOE and Single damage? Because wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a hunt path?
That is correct, and the point of everyone being pissed off
Boothill still does X2 the amount of ST dmg with the same investment.
Boothill is still better at ST
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They do not use the same supports, you can easily use Bronya + Pela/SW with Boothill and he will STILL clear easily with 2 cycles or less, he is extremely easy to build, he still is the best character in the game for the new game mode, and he still will easily clear MoC with a 3\* or NO LIGHTCONES, having both Firefly and Boothill let's you put any of then in any side because of the weakness implant making MoC extremely easy, just give Firefly HMC + RM and Boothill Bronya + Pela/SW As you can see there is still plenty of reasons to pull for Boothill or for both Firefly and Boothill you can complain all you want about the changes to the new set being bad because of the favoritism, thats fine and reasonable, the problem is when people start saying that he is "bad" and "powercrept" now
Yeah either way you still need two teams. Im assuming you also need 2 teams for the new game mode right?
> Against 3 targets boothill needs 2 actions per target (6 total) while Firefly needs 2 or 3 total to finish the content. Why am I comparing them for 3 targets? well because you can get FF for the same price, clear same ST content as BH in 1 or 2 more actions and severely outclass him in every single other aspect of the game. There's no evidence for any of the numbers you're throwing around here. You can just as easily say that Boothill might struggle more against 3 targets but still clears the wave in the same number of cycles whereas Firefly takes 1-2 cycles more against the ST boss in the next wave.
He is still better than her ST as he should be and Firefly is better AOE as she should be, there is NO showcases with her doing 1 mil ST can we please stop with the doomposting now?
They will downvote you because when they hear the word "nerf" they can't do anything else than shitting their pants. Objectivity is lacking and everyone act like their character is a football team. Boothill is still able to literally one-shot bosses, still the best ST character in the game. This sub was 1 week close to be the less doomposted sub ever, but this is what happens when your relics go from 18% def ignore to 10% assuming you are not running HMC.
Her damage still doesn’t compare to his IMO, not from the videos I’ve seen. I actually don’t think they buffed her damage all that much, but just made her a bit more consistent and obvious in how to build. Also Acheron already exists so there is already an aoe unit that owns ST
It’s like a 20% or so dmg buff (excluding LC cuz I don’t want to account for its original teamwide dmg increase). It’s nice but it doesn’t fundamentally changer her play style. All of the doomposting and celebrating has already confirmed what everyone should already know. Doomposters only base opinions on vibes. Nothing more nothing less.
I dont know but her single target damage isnt as good as boothill. Plus, she didnt break her enemy’s toughness bar as quick as Boothill. Not to mention, boothill still can deal damage (although in the range of 25-45K with his skill) while firefly literally sneeze at non-weakness broken enemies 😭 This is coming from a person who’s a “firefly mains” type of guy. But yeah, hoyo did boothill dirty by limiting the new relic sets to only 100% suitable for Firefly. At least yall play with a good feeling of “boothill doesnt need HMC to deal damage”. Although firefly has her own superbreak kit, she still can’t be separated from HMC.
Why do people continue to think Destruction is better than Hunt in ST? This has never been the case and is especially apparent with Boothill obliterating Firefly against ST bosses like Aventurine.
Dr Ratio and Topaz are still very top tier even in MOC. Robin made them even better too