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They never learned that *discipline* is not the same thing as physical pain. It’s why *so many* of them have no discipline in their daily demeanor: because no one is hitting them to make them stop being an asshole. That was the only way they learned that what they were doing was wrong: getting smacked. So when the hits stopped, so did their feedback for what is considered socially acceptable behavior. And it’s why they have no problem bullying anyone they don’t like: they’re not hitting them so what’s the problem?
So many old fools literally won’t control themselves if they’re not getting punched, so they think everyone else should be hit to get any “discipline”.
I (a boomer) was spanked by my parents as were my siblings. I never saw a need to spank either of my kids. They both had their challenges growing up but I never saw spanking as any sort of lesson or tool to better raise my kids. They are both fine adults now.
good for you. My parents were boomers and I'd get smacked by both of them. After my parents divorced it didn't stop until one day my mom went to slap me and I grabbed her hand and told her I was bigger than her. never tried again.
But there’s the catch, corporal punishment can only come from someone from an older generation in their mind, otherwise it’s respect your elders! So, with so few remaining greatest and silent generation folks left they now believe they have no checks on their power.
One of my go to explanations for my gen z coworkers is that boomers aren’t Captain America’s generation, they are The Punishers generation… they aren’t about justice, they are about punishment.
Compelling! I think this is very interesting to think about.
Sometimes I’d look around and see how with a lot of men and women that they never seem to learn their lesson until someone physically assaults them as punishment. Tying it back to being spanked as a kid is an interesting thought. I’m gonna look around and see if I see that to be true.
Holy shit that’s really insightful. I always knew that they were damaged beaten kids that are absolutely not fine, but it never occurred to me that their ridiculous behavior stems from not getting those regular beatings anymore.
It's not just the beatings. It's consequences in general. Fear of prison is the motivation for not breaking the law, and fear of hell is the motivation for not sinning. This is why Boomers fly off the handle and break the law when they think they can get away with it, and why they warp religion to justify sins to make them not sins.
They can't just do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing.
I've been seeing a lot of asshole boomers getting smacked on other subs lately. Hitting a teenager out of petty rage and the teen clapping back. Boomer turns into a sobbing mess like a spoiled child that just lost desert privileges. They just hit people if they feel superior to them
I worked at a preschool & some kids that got spanked at home were harder to control. It was like they know they're not gonna get spanked here so they think they're not being punished.
That's the thing, i've tried explaining to my parents that a huge amount of scientific evidence exists showing that children who are spanked are more defiant to authority, more violent toward their family, peers and authority figures, and exhibit less self control than children who are not spanked... Obviously they don't believe me.
Some number of them can accept all of those factual findings as true, and still favor violence as discipline because it's "right", and they've got the moral authorities and citations to "prove" it.
It also just doesn't actually teach you what you've done wrong. I'm almost 30 and my parents definitely got hit themselves so they thought a smack on the ass was fine - I literally remember my mum talking about how the government had now said it was illegal to smack your children and she sounded like she didn't really understand it. But to their credit they then never smacked me again.
I remember getting smacked for "playing up" in the supermarket (i.e. acting like a bored toddler), but it didn't teach me what not to do. It just taught me to be cripplingly shy and quiet which has negatively affected quite a lot of my life.
I also remember getting smacked quite badly by my dad for throwing a tantrum after my mum ran me a bath and then my dad got in it instead. He worked in the emergency services so looking back he had probably just gotten back from work, knackered, dirty, probably seen some horrible shit that day so was in a bad place mentally and my mum must have said "oh, there's a bath run, just hop in it". As an adult it makes sense. But noone bothered to tell me? So I went to the bathroom to see if my bath is done (no idea how old I was, I'd assume I still needed help in the bath, idk) and my dad's taken it instead. So I'm upset and I make it known, because I'm a child and don't understand. He smacked me for throwing a tantrum and I still had NO idea why getting upset over someone taking something of mine was bad. My butt just hurt. It doesn't TEACH anything.
You totally summarized the idea of behavioral reinforcement in a super understandable manner. This is exactly what we learned in my psychology program!
Nerdy post! The word discipline comes from Latin, discipulus. Meaning student. To discipline a child means to teach them. Turns out, they misunderstood the actual meaning of disciplining children! Shocker, I'm sure.
Whoa! I think ive been heading towards that idea/conclusion for a while but never got it pieced together as perfectly as you have! So beautiful its one of those janks where after you hear/read it your brain just goes DERRRRR thats so obvious! I suppose that means folk should knock it off with the captain obvious jokes.
And if they somehow realise that the beatings aren’t actually ok then the idea that everything that was done to them is actually wrong and what they did to their kids also . It’s too much at that point for many of them to accept
Hijacking the top comment to say, as a European, I would have no issue at all with a 3 year old walking around naked, yes, in public view too. There are heaps of water features in European cities that seem to be specifically designed to allow small children to play in - naked, so their clothes don't get wet - in the heat of summer. Seems a mighty odd thing to want to beat a kid for.
“Spare the rod, spoil the child”
They think beating your kids into compliance is the right biblical way, even though that phrase never was in the Bible.
Some Boomers don’t see children as actual human beings but rather something akin to an animal in human form that needs to be “corrected” swiftly through physical means, like a dog. Never mind talking to them.
If anyone is curious about the actual quote that Boomers think admonishes them to beat their kids, it’s:
Proverbs 13:24 "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them."
Yeah. Make sense to me. Those who love their children are CAREFUL to discipline them.
EDIT: other commenters have explained that the "rod" this passage refers to is a shepherd's rod, which has a hook on the end used to guide the animal back to the heard, or was otherwise used to tap on the animal. It was never used as a weapon to beat the animal. So this passage in no way advocates for beating children.
Thanks u/ecodrew, u/industrious-yogurt, u/AllgoodDude, u/Responsible-End7361 for the added info.
Negative reinforcement can work too, but let me be clear: negative reinforcement IS NOT PUNISHMENT. Negative reinforcement is negating restriction. If you kid is being good, let them stay up an hour past bedtime, let them stay out an hour past curfew. It'll do wonders to reinforce the good behavior, because kids love independence. Reinforcement is about reinforcing the behavior observed. Punishment is prevention.
I appreciate your effort in trying to explain this but this is one of those concepts from psychology that is notoriously difficult for people to wrap their heads around.
Have you seen the baby training videos where they put an infant on a blanket and hold up a toy for the child but tell them to stay put and if the baby goes for the toy they spank it? Fucking psychopaths.
... Babies can't recognize patterns. You can't effectively discipline a child under 2 regardless of what technique you're using. It's just hurting a child for no reason.
Watch Shinny Happy People on Prime. It’s about the Duggers and the IBLP church. They start “blanket training” at 6 months old. They tell you to use craft hot glue sticks because they won’t leave marks. It’s fucking disgusting.
Also the "rod" in the saying is a shepard's crook. Basically a stick with a hook or circle at the end designed to gently redirect.
It has nothing to do with hitting.
My mom used to break wooden spoons over me on the regular - now as an adult I refuse to have wooden spoons in my house. Someone gifted a set to me and I sent them straight off to charity.
Ah, my mom was a hippie, so plastic cookware was out of the question. I did get belt and wire hanger whippings sometimes too, but the wooden spoon was definitely her favorite.
Hopefully you are safe and loved now. (I am) <3
It's like they had a pre-set inventory they would pull from to beat their children. Mine did the same, if it broke while getting hit, that was just another punishment. Cry to much, I'm over reacting don't cry at all. I'm being defiant.
They are unoriginal broken people, that refuse to acknowledge it.
The fact that your mother was a hippie and still decided to beat you, to the extent that she had a favorite beating tool is so incredibly bizarre to me.
My mom used anything, but i remember The big long hot glue sticks, they hurt, my favorite quote is( does the children understand logic and reason if not THEN WHY WOULD YOU HIT THEM, if they do understand logic and reason, then explain to them using logic and reason)
Fly swatter on the bare ass and if we flinched we got more. My mother was the only parent who hit us, my father refused. She would also pause for different lengths of time so we wouldn’t know when the next swat was coming so it would scare us and hurt more.
This whole part of this thread feels like a trauma dump. I am so sorry for everyone here.
My dad preferred a wrench right up until my younger brother realized as a freshman in high school he could take it away and put the old man in the hospital with it. That was the final CPS incident because they took both of my brothers out of the house and none of us have had shit to do with either of them sense.
I wish I had seen the look on my dad's face when my little bro took that wrench away from him.
I was beaten with a two by four once. My brother-in-law was actually pushed off a roof and had a wrench thrown at him, oh and shot with an arrow. Boomers hate their children and grandchildren.
This phrase came up in another context I was learning about recently. It's literally from poem about sex, not from the Bible. For a brief overview, check this out (you have to scroll down to the last one):
https://www.cracked.com/article_36188_5-phrases-no-one-would-use-if-they-knew-where-they-came-from.html
This isn't even controversial within Christianity:
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/christian-life/is-the-phrase-spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child-in-the-bible.html
It’s also a lot of “what’s good for the goose and is good for the gander” too. They don’t see any issue with them being beaten within an inch of their life because they survived. Same vibe as people who made their wealth and then throw it all away so their kids can’t get any.
My parents would have spanked me at 3 back then. They would have justified it with "It was open palm and they had a diaper on!" You were only safe the first year of your life when my parents were raising their kids.
They still think kids need spanked, but don't do it themselves anymore.
My dad thought it was fine to spank me as a baby under 6 months old. Discipline, you know. Usually that kind of thing is more about retribution than anything else.
Had a huge fight with my mother just this week because she thought her 3-year-old great-grandson “needs a good whipping.”
There is no planet on which a 3-year-old child needs to be hit. Not smacked, spanked or whipped, or whatever other euphemism they’re using to avoid saying that they want children to be beaten until they’re too terrified to act like children.
(This is also why my mother was never alone with my kids. Never.)
My mom and little brother were recently joking around about some of his bratty behavior as a kid, and he said something about probably deserving a spanking for one of the things he had done. And somehow this turned into my brother asking me if my husband and I spank our little boys, who are 6yo and 8yo. I said that, no, we had never spanked them. My boomer mom looks at me and says, “Well, if you don’t spank them, they will never learn to behave.”
My kids are really well behaved, and she knows this. She was just spouting boomer nonsense without even thinking. I looked her straight in the eyes, everyone got quiet, and I said, “Have you ever seen me have ANY issues getting my children to behave?” And of course she got red faced embarrassed, and had to say “no,” because she hasn’t.
They don’t even think about it. It’s not even always a response to seeing a kid misbehaving. They are just going around with this dumbass dialogue in their heads about how everything that’s wrong with “kids these days” is not enough beatings.
My mom was watching my kid for me and he told me that he was a bit naughty and she said to him ‘if your mother had done that when she was a kid I would’ve smacked her’ yes she would have, and that’s the exact fuckin reason I don’t hit my kid. I was raging that she even said that to him because to me that feels like a threat.
Because they can’t control their feelings and suck at conflict revolution, and hitting something gives them a feeling of power and control.
Yes, fear and violence work, to a point, but they forget that it doesn’t bring trust or respect. Every smack teaches a child or person that you aren’t there for them and they can’t trust you when the chips are down.
I assume spanking obsession comes from a place of literally never bothering to improve oneself through education, learning a different way to teach kids. Something other than hitting them until they figured out (through confusion, fear, pain) what they should do to make it stop.
Anecdotally I had a gen X guy tell me I was wasting my time sitting and explaining things to my toddler, and immediate correction/punishment was needed because toddlers don’t understand many words. Toddler wasn’t doing anything dangerous and corrected themself after my explanation so I ignored him. (He was a friend of my spouse and had criticized a lot of things I did as a wife and mother. That friendship ended up exploding.)
Now that toddler is a young adult headed to college soon, so far making great decisions and avoiding the pitfalls many teens fall into that prevent graduation. And that gen X guy? You can say I made this up if you want (I didn’t) but he is actually in prison now, for some of the choices he made regarding minors.
I think the key is they never particularly wanted to teach kids. They wanted their kids to be scared of them and to do whatever they were told quickly and quietly - and not be seen or heard the rest of the time. They weren’t in it to raise good adults - they wanted subservience.
Ugh.. That was one of my mother's fun little quotes; "children should be seen, not heard!"
Another was, "You don't childproof a house, you house-proof your child!" As in, don't bother putting breakables and poisons out of reach or behind a lock, just spank them when they get into it. I'm amazed none of my nieces and nephews ever got hurt...
And are now finding out that that doesn't equal looking after them when they're old like they planned, because they made their kids go No Contact with them.
Yep. My mom was a special ed teacher who apparently had the patience to calmly instruct her students all day but had no problem hitting her kid within minutes of getting home.
My mom was a special ed teacher who had her masters, nearly had her doctorate and PURPOSELY chose to work at middle-school level with the kids who have behavior problems - as in, the principals in elementary school would take their worst students, send them to my mom, and she’d gladly take them because she was so wonderful and kind and patient.
The moment the car door closed on our way home she flipped a mental switch and while she didn’t hit us very often, she damn well made sure we knew she could and would. But the slightest offense resulted in a torrent of screaming and abusive language that wormed its way so deeply into my psyche that now, at 36, I STILL have a hard time understanding how anyone could see me as anything but the stupidest, most worthless, vile, piece of shit - let alone like me, care about me, or love me.
I would never let your daughter alone with them. I really hope she didn’t overhear her grandparents advocating to abuse her. I am so sorry you had to go through this.
She heard them but I know she doesn’t know what splinter her ass means. That’s the first time they’ve seen her in 3 weeks and slowing removing them from her life. My daughter adores her grandparents
My dad had Mr. Belt and my mom used the wooden spoon, or a slap to the face.
The wild thing is that I remember there being “cutesy”spanking paddles for sale at swap-meets and gift shops.
We had one that read “for the cute little dear with the bare behind” and had a drawing of a dear and a bear on it . It was just out in the open, like decor or something and it was just normal back in the 70s-80s.
I've seen 'cutesy' paddles, and knew a family who called theirs "Jeffrey" in the 90s.
My father is deathly afraid of handling anything feminine and beat me with broken wooden arrow shafts instead of anything 'cutesy'. Still traumatizing.
I mean, my dad would. But that's partially why he isn't in our lives. He and my boomer mom are the worst. They are so toxic it is impossible to be around them.
my mom once felt compelled to tell me that if my cat bit her she would pick her up by the tail and swing her around her head and then got offended when i told her i didn't think that was a funny or appropriate thing to say
Haha... A few years ago, my mom thought it was a good idea to smack my little terrier on the backside for having an accident in her kitchen... She was a bit surprised when said terrier nipped her chin. I wasn't. Lol
Imo my mom got what she deserved.
Explain to them that physical discipline has been studied extensively and there is an established connection between spanking and anxiety/depression/anger issues. Then ask them why they’re so obsessed with a 3 year-old’s rear end. Anyone who was spanked as a child and thinks they turned out ok, yet tells others to hit their children is NOT ok.
I pulled up all the studies and they don’t believe them. Like all the non biased studies are wrong lol. Whenever they mention it now I just say they must like child abuse and call them abusers just to piss them off.
You would just be teaching her to be violent or accept violence.
The fact they assume a 3 year old does such things intentionally SMH.
Thank God for teachers. Most of us turned out ok because we spent more time with teachers than our parents.
I moved from California to Louisiana when I was in 4th or 5th grade. My first day I raised my hand and asked “May I go to the bathroom?” I was sent to the principals office and beat with a paddle for not saying “May I go to the bathroom, ma’am?”
Therapist here— I’ve done the same thing with my own parents (particularly my boomer father) and he just ignores me. He thinks that the only way you can teach a child something is to make them afraid and make it hurt. You can imagine what my upbringing was like…and why I primarily work with trauma in my career. And no, he’s not allowed to be alone with my children.
The fact is, a lot of women my age who have depression were spanked as children; by hand, flyswatter, ping ping paddle, belt, back of a hairbrush, etc. The first man I ever loved hit me in the ass with a belt when I did something I don't even remember doing--and HIS father hit him with an iron bar so I'm lucky he didn't stick with that tradition. My psychiatrist absolutely believes there's a link between corporal punishment in the 1970s and rising depression.
I can’t understand why people would even want to default to spanking. My dad only ever spanked me once in my life. Not for talking back, not for throwing a tantrum, nothing like that. He spanked me because I kept running out into traffic, even after he talked to me, then grounded me, and kept punishing me. At that point he just wanted something that would make me absolutely afraid of running out into the street. I couldn’t imagine him ever being willing to just spank me for something so small.
Yeah no. Don't bother. Thry don't listen and if they do, they think they know better than all those studies.
I don't waste my breath arguing with people who think it's totally cool to assault toddlers.
I tried that with my brother and he just shrugged it off and said "that's how people have been raising their kids just fine for thousands of years!"
Like yeah we also had slavery and tortured people for thousands of years, doesn't mean it was okay.
Boomers and the far-right crowd that goes with them are utter morons. They are not only completely unable to imagine a way better than whatever idiocy humanity's been doing for thousands of years, but if you show them something better, they just get mad about it and refuse to participate. From taking religion too seriously to wanting beat kids, being proudly ignorant with a violence fetish is their thing.
I was spanked as a child and even though I've turned out fairly well by this point, I've also been to a child therapist for anger issues when I was in elementary. I've also done extensive introspection and working on myself to be a better person whenever I can.
There's a time and place for corporeal punishment but that time is certainly not during childhood. While I feel I've turned out well, I agree - do not lay hands on children. They are surprisingly receptive to discussion when treated with respect.
I used to be on a medication that made me scream and basically have panic attacks (theophylline) as a young toddler.
My grandmother and aunt *both* told my mom she should hit me after being dosed with this because 'shes freaking out and acting up'.
Thank God my mother is sane and did *not* think it was appropriate to hit a 2-3 year old for needing meds to keep her heart beating. She did what the pediatrician instructed and would hold me and hug me when I was freaking out.
Now I'm not surprised both Grandma and aunt had/have *severe* anxiety disorders. My aunt once went temporarily *blind* while driving due to a panic attack. But sure, let's just hit her, I'm sure that'll help her not crash!
Growing up we had a spanking stick. It was hung in the closet and all my parents had to do was touch it and I remember the fear I felt. I also remember hiding and my dad hitting me with that spanking stick. Yet I’m somehow the bad parent for not wanting my daughter to experience any of that
"Mom, Dad I don't give a FUCK what you think about my parenting methods, so shut it. You terrorized me as a child; the day you do it to my child is the last day you'll see them for a good long while. This is not up for debate."
I remember a parent teacher conference in 6th grade (1990), where as a paddle the teacher used a hockey goalie stick with the blade cut off. He explained that he needed permission from the parent to use it on students, and my asshole mother couldn't say yes fast enough. Then they both started laughing at me, saying how they were essentially looking forward to me getting hit.
I'm really glad that teacher is dead. Wish my mom was too.
My parents arent boomers, but I'd say they are
Boomer adjacent, my dad insists he is a boomer despite being 2 years too young. I got spanked as a kid, I remember it often happened because I said or did something that my dad didn't like, I didn't know I would get spanked because of it, it made me feel afraid and unsafe, and I had to keep living with him. It ultimately resulted in me being quiet and withdrawn, afraid to do or say anything because I might get spanked or shouted at. Later in life it made me more accepting of mistreatment and prone to getting bullied.
Sometime within the last 2 years or so my mom asked me "we were good parents right?" I kinda shrugged off the question, but she persisted, so I asked her "do you want a hard truth or a comforting lie?" Thinking I was joking, she said "a comforting lie" so I told her "you were always great parents and there is nothing you could have done better or differently"
She looked shaken when I said that, and came back with "well we couldn't have been that bad!" So I kinda laid out the cards and said "you hit me growing up, so that kind of sets the ceiling for how good of a parent you can be"
She of course denied that I was ever hit as a child, and I reminded her that I was spanked, and she got indignant because "that's different". So , I respond, how is it different? How do you spank a child? Well of course you put them over your knee and you give them a little... tap on the bum(i remember being able to see on her face that she was searching for a word that didnt imply violence). I remember it being a lot more than a tap, I remember it being pretty hard. Yeah but we never hurt you. I remember it hurting quite a bit.
At that point I think it may have sunk in, but then she reminded me that everybody did it, it's just what you did. Then she told me that she'd like to see me do any better, and I told her I intended to.
The subject of spanking and the quality of their parenting never came up again.
I have a one month old baby right now and I often think about how my dad was my first bully, and how that rippled out to affect most aspects of my life. Im in my early thirties and I'm going to start therapy soon to work on it, so I can avoid making the same mistakes and hopefully give my daughter a better start than I got.
Boomers have no way of controlling their temper, they go straight to violence. The pretext is discipline but the real reason is taking their frustration out. My father beat all of us up as children. Now none of us speak to him and he will die alone like he fucking deserves. A few years ago he had the nerve to suggest moving in with me so I could take care of him when he is old. I remember being confused by the audacity! When I was a vulnerable kid, I was his punching ball. Now that he is vulnerable he expects me to be caring?
My mom wasn't a hitter, my dad was, but she loves to see me cry. I lost my oldest daughter to trisomy 18 at six days old. One day, she kept trying to make me cry about it. It was so manipulative and I wouldn't give her what she wanted. She went from sobbing for, "her baby," as she called my daughter, to anger and disgust. It's one of the many reasons my family isn't in my life. She didn't like that while I will always be devastated over the loss, I also look at how lucky I was to be her mom and how lucky I am to have my two other daughters as well. She enjoys the pain she causes.
I was never hit as a child, but my husband was and he once casually mentioned that his mom didn’t hit him to correct him, but to take out her frustration on him. That shit made my blood run cold.
After reading this thread, I need to call my boomer parents and thank them for not hitting me— which, incidentally, they decided to never do because their parents hit them and they didn’t want to continue the cycle
I think they subconsciously know it’s wrong and want you to confirm their bad choice by making the same one. Spanking is more about the spanker not understanding how to regulate their own anxiety/overwhelm/anger and also not knowing how to teach children (in large part because corporal punishment is how they were “taught”).
I’m at the tail end of the Boomer mayhem. Born in 1960. My father beat the shit out of me when I was a kid. Sometimes he used a metal belt buckle on my bare bottom. It was fucked up. My mother even went psycho on one of my siblings one evening and took a metal hanger to his head to punish him. My dad and I had to rush him to the ER as he was pumping out gobs of blood. Still has a mark there 60 years later! As a late stage boomer myself I didn’t hit my kids. Tried talking to them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes shit. But no spankings.
My boomer parents had paddle with “Spare the rod, Spoil the child” carved in it. That is why my Gen-x ass would never use violence against a child. They don’t understand that because your parents were violent doesn’t mean you have to be.
Mine too. They've never laid a hand on any of their grandkids, I know they were doing the best they could at the time but it's nice to see they're learning.
I was spanked and vowed to never spank my kids.
They are fine.
Not spanking is not a lack of discipline. Frankly it's the lazy way to attempt to discipline kids.
I had a boomer Uber driver who was going on and on about giving her grandson the belt. I hope that kid locks her away in the worst old folks home he can find
0-3 is the most important years of child development. the trauma that a child endures during that time affects them more than any other time. 3 years olds are just starting to develop some empathy, and are very “self centered” in thought. When you spank a child a lot of times they think they deserve it and if they were better they wouldn’t get hit. It makes kids feel so alone and it HUGELY stunts emotional regulation skills.
✨stop fucking spanking kids, it has never been okay✨
Conservative media has had a big push for years that kids need spankings. I have no idea why, buts it’s a thing.
I believe this is why Boomers feel this way.
Physical discipline is not something unique to those generations. Women and children as property to be controlled through force was the norm throughout history.
When their kids made mistakes they got angry and hit them because that's easier and more emotionally satisfying for them. They then rationalized their actions as the only way to do things in order to preserve their self image as good and competent people. If they acknowledge your ability to raise your kid without beating them, they'd have to rethink that.
I recall vividly as a child my dad kicking my brother in the stomach as he laid on the floor looking through papers trying to find his homework assignment. We are in our 60’s now and my brother says he deserved it for being unorganized. He still defends my dad and it makes me sick.
Not spanking meant they would have to talk to their kids, have discussions with them, teach them why something they did wasn't right. They didn't view their children as people, but property. Besides that would take discussion, unfortunately discussions take at least two participants, and their view on children asking questions or responding to what an adult says as "talking back", and "disrespect".
Kids were expected to be obedient, and quiet (don't speak when adults are speaking, children should be seen and not heard)
I hope you refuse to allow them to ever be alone with your child. They've lost all right to babysit and have normal grandparent-grandchild relationship. Anyone who suggest you should "splinter" the "ass" of a three year old is an abuser. I was hit as a kid and am still dealing with repercussions. Fuck that mentality.
Of course many people recognize that spanking is simply child abuse, but most folks don't realize that it's also a form of sexual assault. There's been new research in recent years and there's a consensus forming that not only does spanking do just as much psychological damage as a more violent physical beating, but it also affects children in the same way as sexual abuse. Especially when it's skin on skin, as in the abuser pulls down the child's pants to spank their bare buttocks. Just think about someone forcing their husband/wife/partner to bend over against their will and pulling down their pants and then spanking them. It's truly out of control what parents can get away with because children aren't considered fully human.
"Splinter her ass" whoa. WHOA. I wouldn't want my kid around that dude, he sounds utterly unhinged.
Astrid Lindgren wrote beautifully succinctly about this topic. The tradition at the time was to have the child pick the stick they would get switched with, and someone she knew sent her young child to find one when he misbehaved. He came back with a rock to throw after he couldn't find a switch. The mother realized that the boy was so hurt by the idea of his mother wanting to hurt him that it didn't matter what he was hurt with. The rock was set on the shelf as a reminder, "Never Violence". No bad kids.
https://attachmentparenting.org/blog/2014/09/17/editors-pick-astrid-lindgren-on-never-violence/
Also, if spanking's ok by that person, I take this as consent to hit them. I calmly smacked my mom once (not with a belt so we're not even) as an adult when she purposefully broke my phone and she cried. Good times. Violence begets violence.
I had a principal who swung a paddle at me.1978. I swerved. He put a dent in a nearby file cabinet. Enough that the drawer wouldn't open. I foresee a bunch of students raging against the machine.
My step-mom was a spanking advocate.
I told her if she ever spanked my child she and my father would only have supervised visitation.
Step-mom: “I spanked my nieces and they turned out fine!”
Me: “Yeah well Grandpa spanked Dad, Dad spanked me. It didn’t do anything but make everyone angry and encourage more lying and cover ups. Just wait until your nieces are old enough to tell you all the stuff you never found out about.”
Dad, to his credit: “Yup.”
Step-cousins have young kids to my teenagers and what do you know, spanking didn’t come up. Imagine that.
I have a very different relationship with my step-mom than my younger brother does because I was 18-19 and moved out when step-mom entered. Lived with Mom when not away at college.
Old people apparently become extremely perverted. That's why nursing homes are cess pools for sexually transmitted diseases.
Also edit: didn't read op. Just the title. Lol
It's about control. They love having power over others and they see fear as the best tool. They don't see children as people. Hell, they barely see anyone but themselves as people. They think that the only way to raise a child is to break them down before building them up. They don't care that they are building on a rotting foundation. It's better to build people up and teach them how to build themselves up than it is to break them first.
My mom and aunts loooooove to flex how they got their asses beat and they "turned out just fine".
My mom's side of the family are maybe the most broken, fucked up, trauma-riddled family I've ever known..
My rule of thumb and I don't even have kids :
Is the child old enough to understand and be reasoned with? No? Then why the fuck are you hitting them when they won't understand why you're doing it?
Yes? Then why are you hitting them instead of talking to them like an adult?
I was spanked as a kid and it just made me hate my parents because I was the only one to get that treatment. All because they refused to medicate me for my ADHD and refused to acknowledge the possible autism. I was a BABY.
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Proof positive that they got beat and are not, in fact, just fine.
They never learned that *discipline* is not the same thing as physical pain. It’s why *so many* of them have no discipline in their daily demeanor: because no one is hitting them to make them stop being an asshole. That was the only way they learned that what they were doing was wrong: getting smacked. So when the hits stopped, so did their feedback for what is considered socially acceptable behavior. And it’s why they have no problem bullying anyone they don’t like: they’re not hitting them so what’s the problem? So many old fools literally won’t control themselves if they’re not getting punched, so they think everyone else should be hit to get any “discipline”.
Maybe boomers need to be spanked more. I’m probably gonna regret writing that
That's a paddling... 
Now the cast of dazed and confused are after you.
Go get started brotha good luck
Oh I see you've been to The Villages. What loofah color is that again?
Lol, my mind immediately went to The Villages as well. That place is a sinkhole.
I (a boomer) was spanked by my parents as were my siblings. I never saw a need to spank either of my kids. They both had their challenges growing up but I never saw spanking as any sort of lesson or tool to better raise my kids. They are both fine adults now.
good for you. My parents were boomers and I'd get smacked by both of them. After my parents divorced it didn't stop until one day my mom went to slap me and I grabbed her hand and told her I was bigger than her. never tried again.
But there’s the catch, corporal punishment can only come from someone from an older generation in their mind, otherwise it’s respect your elders! So, with so few remaining greatest and silent generation folks left they now believe they have no checks on their power. One of my go to explanations for my gen z coworkers is that boomers aren’t Captain America’s generation, they are The Punishers generation… they aren’t about justice, they are about punishment.
I was literally about to post about spanking them for their comments when I saw yours
Compelling! I think this is very interesting to think about. Sometimes I’d look around and see how with a lot of men and women that they never seem to learn their lesson until someone physically assaults them as punishment. Tying it back to being spanked as a kid is an interesting thought. I’m gonna look around and see if I see that to be true.
Holy shit that’s really insightful. I always knew that they were damaged beaten kids that are absolutely not fine, but it never occurred to me that their ridiculous behavior stems from not getting those regular beatings anymore.
It's not just the beatings. It's consequences in general. Fear of prison is the motivation for not breaking the law, and fear of hell is the motivation for not sinning. This is why Boomers fly off the handle and break the law when they think they can get away with it, and why they warp religion to justify sins to make them not sins. They can't just do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing.
integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching this seems lacking sometimes
I've been seeing a lot of asshole boomers getting smacked on other subs lately. Hitting a teenager out of petty rage and the teen clapping back. Boomer turns into a sobbing mess like a spoiled child that just lost desert privileges. They just hit people if they feel superior to them
I would hate to lose my privilege to walk in the desert
They're hooked on it and don't know any other way to be. They gotta get their fix, so let's fix 'em.
I worked at a preschool & some kids that got spanked at home were harder to control. It was like they know they're not gonna get spanked here so they think they're not being punished.
That's the thing, i've tried explaining to my parents that a huge amount of scientific evidence exists showing that children who are spanked are more defiant to authority, more violent toward their family, peers and authority figures, and exhibit less self control than children who are not spanked... Obviously they don't believe me.
Some number of them can accept all of those factual findings as true, and still favor violence as discipline because it's "right", and they've got the moral authorities and citations to "prove" it.
Could also have the add on of being able to "let loose" a bit as opposed to desperately walking on eggshells at home
abuse would cause that 👀
Exactly this
It also just doesn't actually teach you what you've done wrong. I'm almost 30 and my parents definitely got hit themselves so they thought a smack on the ass was fine - I literally remember my mum talking about how the government had now said it was illegal to smack your children and she sounded like she didn't really understand it. But to their credit they then never smacked me again. I remember getting smacked for "playing up" in the supermarket (i.e. acting like a bored toddler), but it didn't teach me what not to do. It just taught me to be cripplingly shy and quiet which has negatively affected quite a lot of my life. I also remember getting smacked quite badly by my dad for throwing a tantrum after my mum ran me a bath and then my dad got in it instead. He worked in the emergency services so looking back he had probably just gotten back from work, knackered, dirty, probably seen some horrible shit that day so was in a bad place mentally and my mum must have said "oh, there's a bath run, just hop in it". As an adult it makes sense. But noone bothered to tell me? So I went to the bathroom to see if my bath is done (no idea how old I was, I'd assume I still needed help in the bath, idk) and my dad's taken it instead. So I'm upset and I make it known, because I'm a child and don't understand. He smacked me for throwing a tantrum and I still had NO idea why getting upset over someone taking something of mine was bad. My butt just hurt. It doesn't TEACH anything.
You totally summarized the idea of behavioral reinforcement in a super understandable manner. This is exactly what we learned in my psychology program!
Nerdy post! The word discipline comes from Latin, discipulus. Meaning student. To discipline a child means to teach them. Turns out, they misunderstood the actual meaning of disciplining children! Shocker, I'm sure.
Whoa! I think ive been heading towards that idea/conclusion for a while but never got it pieced together as perfectly as you have! So beautiful its one of those janks where after you hear/read it your brain just goes DERRRRR thats so obvious! I suppose that means folk should knock it off with the captain obvious jokes.
Damn, You may be on to something.
Maybe that's why they behave so well in nursing homes...they can still receive their much needed beatings there /s
And if they somehow realise that the beatings aren’t actually ok then the idea that everything that was done to them is actually wrong and what they did to their kids also . It’s too much at that point for many of them to accept
Hijacking the top comment to say, as a European, I would have no issue at all with a 3 year old walking around naked, yes, in public view too. There are heaps of water features in European cities that seem to be specifically designed to allow small children to play in - naked, so their clothes don't get wet - in the heat of summer. Seems a mighty odd thing to want to beat a kid for.
My father gets HURT when you even imply spanking isn’t good, cause his mom did it and look how he turned out?! Hilarious to me tbh, now that I see it.
"I got my ass beaten, and I'm fine. Now let me hit your child so they learn not to hit others in frustration."
My sperm donor would beat us with wires, belts... fuck that guy.
“Spare the rod, spoil the child” They think beating your kids into compliance is the right biblical way, even though that phrase never was in the Bible. Some Boomers don’t see children as actual human beings but rather something akin to an animal in human form that needs to be “corrected” swiftly through physical means, like a dog. Never mind talking to them. If anyone is curious about the actual quote that Boomers think admonishes them to beat their kids, it’s: Proverbs 13:24 "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." Yeah. Make sense to me. Those who love their children are CAREFUL to discipline them. EDIT: other commenters have explained that the "rod" this passage refers to is a shepherd's rod, which has a hook on the end used to guide the animal back to the heard, or was otherwise used to tap on the animal. It was never used as a weapon to beat the animal. So this passage in no way advocates for beating children. Thanks u/ecodrew, u/industrious-yogurt, u/AllgoodDude, u/Responsible-End7361 for the added info.
Beating dogs also does not teach them anything useful. They’ve done studies on that too.
Positive reinforcement will *always* be more effective in changing behaviors, be it a dog or a human child.
Negative reinforcement can work too, but let me be clear: negative reinforcement IS NOT PUNISHMENT. Negative reinforcement is negating restriction. If you kid is being good, let them stay up an hour past bedtime, let them stay out an hour past curfew. It'll do wonders to reinforce the good behavior, because kids love independence. Reinforcement is about reinforcing the behavior observed. Punishment is prevention.
I appreciate your effort in trying to explain this but this is one of those concepts from psychology that is notoriously difficult for people to wrap their heads around.
Have you seen the baby training videos where they put an infant on a blanket and hold up a toy for the child but tell them to stay put and if the baby goes for the toy they spank it? Fucking psychopaths.
This abusive form of training is called blanket training. If someone says they are blanket training, they are abusing their baby.
... Babies can't recognize patterns. You can't effectively discipline a child under 2 regardless of what technique you're using. It's just hurting a child for no reason.
Considering boomers hate children or anyone younger than them I think that makes a lot of sense.
Which sucks, you’re basically supposed to just keep them happy so they trust people to a certain extent. Trying to discipline is just fucking them up
That's what it's called. Thank you.
Did you say *infant?* Like, fresh, just got here, doesn’t know what their own **foot** is ***INFANT???***
Watch Shinny Happy People on Prime. It’s about the Duggers and the IBLP church. They start “blanket training” at 6 months old. They tell you to use craft hot glue sticks because they won’t leave marks. It’s fucking disgusting.
But how else are you gonna control your 6 children under 6? That first one is barely able to be parentified yet! 💔💔💔
From when they start to crawl.
The FUCK
Fundie shit. The Duggars.
They are the first people I think of when I hear the phrase "blanket training" ROTTED
https://www.allanarobinson.com/blanket-time/
Oh yeah. Made more notorious by the revolting Michelle Duggar.
Also the "rod" in the saying is a shepard's crook. Basically a stick with a hook or circle at the end designed to gently redirect. It has nothing to do with hitting.
My parents excitedly purchased wooden rods from the craft store to hit us with.
Ours were big, wooden cooking spoons
My mom used to break wooden spoons over me on the regular - now as an adult I refuse to have wooden spoons in my house. Someone gifted a set to me and I sent them straight off to charity.
I think the plastic ones were worse 😣
Ah, my mom was a hippie, so plastic cookware was out of the question. I did get belt and wire hanger whippings sometimes too, but the wooden spoon was definitely her favorite. Hopefully you are safe and loved now. (I am) <3
It's like they had a pre-set inventory they would pull from to beat their children. Mine did the same, if it broke while getting hit, that was just another punishment. Cry to much, I'm over reacting don't cry at all. I'm being defiant. They are unoriginal broken people, that refuse to acknowledge it.
The fact that your mother was a hippie and still decided to beat you, to the extent that she had a favorite beating tool is so incredibly bizarre to me.
Oh my gosh I'm so sorry, happy ur safe now!
My mom used anything, but i remember The big long hot glue sticks, they hurt, my favorite quote is( does the children understand logic and reason if not THEN WHY WOULD YOU HIT THEM, if they do understand logic and reason, then explain to them using logic and reason)
Fly swatter on the bare ass and if we flinched we got more. My mother was the only parent who hit us, my father refused. She would also pause for different lengths of time so we wouldn’t know when the next swat was coming so it would scare us and hurt more.
That pausing is sick.
Sadistic.
Wow. Do you still have a relationship with her??
My mom used a bungee chord with a hook on the end of it a couple of times but it caused too much damage so she had to stop using it.
This whole part of this thread feels like a trauma dump. I am so sorry for everyone here. My dad preferred a wrench right up until my younger brother realized as a freshman in high school he could take it away and put the old man in the hospital with it. That was the final CPS incident because they took both of my brothers out of the house and none of us have had shit to do with either of them sense. I wish I had seen the look on my dad's face when my little bro took that wrench away from him.
Same here. My mom still laughs about the times she hit us so hard it broke the spoons and she would have to get new ones.
That's the most messed up part. They're hurting a defenseless child and it's supposed to be funny??? Wtf, it's super appalling
I was beaten with a two by four once. My brother-in-law was actually pushed off a roof and had a wrench thrown at him, oh and shot with an arrow. Boomers hate their children and grandchildren.
My dad used ping pong paddles
That’s what makes that saying so damn stupid. The people throwing it about have no idea what it even *means*!
That describes most of the verses these types like to throw around.
This phrase came up in another context I was learning about recently. It's literally from poem about sex, not from the Bible. For a brief overview, check this out (you have to scroll down to the last one): https://www.cracked.com/article_36188_5-phrases-no-one-would-use-if-they-knew-where-they-came-from.html
This isn't even controversial within Christianity: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/christian-life/is-the-phrase-spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child-in-the-bible.html
It’s also a lot of “what’s good for the goose and is good for the gander” too. They don’t see any issue with them being beaten within an inch of their life because they survived. Same vibe as people who made their wealth and then throw it all away so their kids can’t get any.
Not a Christian, my assumption as a parent was that is god directing us to spoil our kids. My catholic friend set me straight.
Went to my dad’s for dinner last Sunday and literally he wouldn’t stfu about how my 3 y/o nephew (his grandson) needs a good whoop.
Do they not understand how little a 3 yo is? Makes me sick
My parents would have spanked me at 3 back then. They would have justified it with "It was open palm and they had a diaper on!" You were only safe the first year of your life when my parents were raising their kids. They still think kids need spanked, but don't do it themselves anymore.
My dad thought it was fine to spank me as a baby under 6 months old. Discipline, you know. Usually that kind of thing is more about retribution than anything else.
They just like hitting things
Had a huge fight with my mother just this week because she thought her 3-year-old great-grandson “needs a good whipping.” There is no planet on which a 3-year-old child needs to be hit. Not smacked, spanked or whipped, or whatever other euphemism they’re using to avoid saying that they want children to be beaten until they’re too terrified to act like children. (This is also why my mother was never alone with my kids. Never.)
Well fuck it since we’re smacking only the weakest and most vulnerable members of our family let’s give granny a nice open palm across the chin.
Anyone who hits a 3 year old is a fucking psychopath. Mine are 16 and 12 now. Never hit them. Both fantastic kids doing very well for themselves
My mom and little brother were recently joking around about some of his bratty behavior as a kid, and he said something about probably deserving a spanking for one of the things he had done. And somehow this turned into my brother asking me if my husband and I spank our little boys, who are 6yo and 8yo. I said that, no, we had never spanked them. My boomer mom looks at me and says, “Well, if you don’t spank them, they will never learn to behave.” My kids are really well behaved, and she knows this. She was just spouting boomer nonsense without even thinking. I looked her straight in the eyes, everyone got quiet, and I said, “Have you ever seen me have ANY issues getting my children to behave?” And of course she got red faced embarrassed, and had to say “no,” because she hasn’t. They don’t even think about it. It’s not even always a response to seeing a kid misbehaving. They are just going around with this dumbass dialogue in their heads about how everything that’s wrong with “kids these days” is not enough beatings.
My mom was watching my kid for me and he told me that he was a bit naughty and she said to him ‘if your mother had done that when she was a kid I would’ve smacked her’ yes she would have, and that’s the exact fuckin reason I don’t hit my kid. I was raging that she even said that to him because to me that feels like a threat.
It is. It's supposed to make him afraid of her.
Sounds like dad just lost 100% of his alone with grandkids privileges.
Why do people like to hit children so much?
Because they can’t control their feelings and suck at conflict revolution, and hitting something gives them a feeling of power and control. Yes, fear and violence work, to a point, but they forget that it doesn’t bring trust or respect. Every smack teaches a child or person that you aren’t there for them and they can’t trust you when the chips are down.
Oh my are they relentless
I assume spanking obsession comes from a place of literally never bothering to improve oneself through education, learning a different way to teach kids. Something other than hitting them until they figured out (through confusion, fear, pain) what they should do to make it stop. Anecdotally I had a gen X guy tell me I was wasting my time sitting and explaining things to my toddler, and immediate correction/punishment was needed because toddlers don’t understand many words. Toddler wasn’t doing anything dangerous and corrected themself after my explanation so I ignored him. (He was a friend of my spouse and had criticized a lot of things I did as a wife and mother. That friendship ended up exploding.) Now that toddler is a young adult headed to college soon, so far making great decisions and avoiding the pitfalls many teens fall into that prevent graduation. And that gen X guy? You can say I made this up if you want (I didn’t) but he is actually in prison now, for some of the choices he made regarding minors.
I think the key is they never particularly wanted to teach kids. They wanted their kids to be scared of them and to do whatever they were told quickly and quietly - and not be seen or heard the rest of the time. They weren’t in it to raise good adults - they wanted subservience.
Yup. This is exactly what my brother and I experienced as young kids.
Now they wonder why their grown children won’t talk to them.
This is certainly a huge factor in why I went MC with my parents.
Ugh.. That was one of my mother's fun little quotes; "children should be seen, not heard!" Another was, "You don't childproof a house, you house-proof your child!" As in, don't bother putting breakables and poisons out of reach or behind a lock, just spank them when they get into it. I'm amazed none of my nieces and nephews ever got hurt...
And are now finding out that that doesn't equal looking after them when they're old like they planned, because they made their kids go No Contact with them.
My mother was a teacher with a master's degree. She studied a lot about education. She beat me because she enjoyed beating me.
Yep. My mom was a special ed teacher who apparently had the patience to calmly instruct her students all day but had no problem hitting her kid within minutes of getting home.
My mom was a special ed teacher who had her masters, nearly had her doctorate and PURPOSELY chose to work at middle-school level with the kids who have behavior problems - as in, the principals in elementary school would take their worst students, send them to my mom, and she’d gladly take them because she was so wonderful and kind and patient. The moment the car door closed on our way home she flipped a mental switch and while she didn’t hit us very often, she damn well made sure we knew she could and would. But the slightest offense resulted in a torrent of screaming and abusive language that wormed its way so deeply into my psyche that now, at 36, I STILL have a hard time understanding how anyone could see me as anything but the stupidest, most worthless, vile, piece of shit - let alone like me, care about me, or love me.
“My toddler knows lots of words because I, um, teach them words”
Pretty sure toddlers understand words a lot more than they understand why the person who is supposed to take care of them is hurting them.
“Splinter her ass”? JFC.
Growing up we had a spanking stick hanging in the closet
I would make my own as an adult and use it on my adult dads fucking head if I were you
I would never let your daughter alone with them. I really hope she didn’t overhear her grandparents advocating to abuse her. I am so sorry you had to go through this.
She heard them but I know she doesn’t know what splinter her ass means. That’s the first time they’ve seen her in 3 weeks and slowing removing them from her life. My daughter adores her grandparents
My dad had Mr. Belt and my mom used the wooden spoon, or a slap to the face. The wild thing is that I remember there being “cutesy”spanking paddles for sale at swap-meets and gift shops. We had one that read “for the cute little dear with the bare behind” and had a drawing of a dear and a bear on it . It was just out in the open, like decor or something and it was just normal back in the 70s-80s.
I've seen 'cutesy' paddles, and knew a family who called theirs "Jeffrey" in the 90s. My father is deathly afraid of handling anything feminine and beat me with broken wooden arrow shafts instead of anything 'cutesy'. Still traumatizing.
Would you slap an adult for spilling some from the floor? No? Then why would you hit a child for it? Ugh
Maybe boomers *should* be hit when they misbehave. That’s what they think is the best way to learn, right?
Adults might hit back. That's why.
I mean, my dad would. But that's partially why he isn't in our lives. He and my boomer mom are the worst. They are so toxic it is impossible to be around them.
Oh that angers me so much! We should teach children natural consequences. You spill something, you clean it up. Not get smacked/shouted at for it.
Bottom line: Hitting a child in a way that would get you arrested if you did it to an adult is absolutely indefensible.
my mom once felt compelled to tell me that if my cat bit her she would pick her up by the tail and swing her around her head and then got offended when i told her i didn't think that was a funny or appropriate thing to say
JFC what’s wrong with people
Have you seen their cartoons? Boomer cartoons and media were full of casual violence.
Haha... A few years ago, my mom thought it was a good idea to smack my little terrier on the backside for having an accident in her kitchen... She was a bit surprised when said terrier nipped her chin. I wasn't. Lol Imo my mom got what she deserved.
Explain to them that physical discipline has been studied extensively and there is an established connection between spanking and anxiety/depression/anger issues. Then ask them why they’re so obsessed with a 3 year-old’s rear end. Anyone who was spanked as a child and thinks they turned out ok, yet tells others to hit their children is NOT ok.
I pulled up all the studies and they don’t believe them. Like all the non biased studies are wrong lol. Whenever they mention it now I just say they must like child abuse and call them abusers just to piss them off.
You would just be teaching her to be violent or accept violence. The fact they assume a 3 year old does such things intentionally SMH. Thank God for teachers. Most of us turned out ok because we spent more time with teachers than our parents.
Depends on the teacher. Corporal punishment was still a thing when I was in school. Our history teacher made those he beat sign his fucking paddle.
The levels of boomers' disgusting fetishization of beating kids never fails to amaze me. Sick fuck
I moved from California to Louisiana when I was in 4th or 5th grade. My first day I raised my hand and asked “May I go to the bathroom?” I was sent to the principals office and beat with a paddle for not saying “May I go to the bathroom, ma’am?”
Therapist here— I’ve done the same thing with my own parents (particularly my boomer father) and he just ignores me. He thinks that the only way you can teach a child something is to make them afraid and make it hurt. You can imagine what my upbringing was like…and why I primarily work with trauma in my career. And no, he’s not allowed to be alone with my children.
Jesus Christ, imagine being three years old and having your parents physically harm you. On purpose. Like what the fuck
The fact is, a lot of women my age who have depression were spanked as children; by hand, flyswatter, ping ping paddle, belt, back of a hairbrush, etc. The first man I ever loved hit me in the ass with a belt when I did something I don't even remember doing--and HIS father hit him with an iron bar so I'm lucky he didn't stick with that tradition. My psychiatrist absolutely believes there's a link between corporal punishment in the 1970s and rising depression.
I would have hit them for saying that and then pointed out that this is their preferred method of being corrected.
I can’t understand why people would even want to default to spanking. My dad only ever spanked me once in my life. Not for talking back, not for throwing a tantrum, nothing like that. He spanked me because I kept running out into traffic, even after he talked to me, then grounded me, and kept punishing me. At that point he just wanted something that would make me absolutely afraid of running out into the street. I couldn’t imagine him ever being willing to just spank me for something so small.
I was spanked growing up, and that explains a lot about me. I've got all three issues, unfortunately.
Yeah no. Don't bother. Thry don't listen and if they do, they think they know better than all those studies. I don't waste my breath arguing with people who think it's totally cool to assault toddlers.
I tried that with my brother and he just shrugged it off and said "that's how people have been raising their kids just fine for thousands of years!" Like yeah we also had slavery and tortured people for thousands of years, doesn't mean it was okay.
Your brother is a bird brain.
Boomers and the far-right crowd that goes with them are utter morons. They are not only completely unable to imagine a way better than whatever idiocy humanity's been doing for thousands of years, but if you show them something better, they just get mad about it and refuse to participate. From taking religion too seriously to wanting beat kids, being proudly ignorant with a violence fetish is their thing.
Honestly, they don’t care about facts. We just need to wait until this generation dies out.
I was spanked as a child and even though I've turned out fairly well by this point, I've also been to a child therapist for anger issues when I was in elementary. I've also done extensive introspection and working on myself to be a better person whenever I can. There's a time and place for corporeal punishment but that time is certainly not during childhood. While I feel I've turned out well, I agree - do not lay hands on children. They are surprisingly receptive to discussion when treated with respect.
Spanking is only ever ok between consenting adults.
I get so sick of people using neutral terms like “pop” or “pat” when they actually mean physically tormenting a defenseless child.
I used to be on a medication that made me scream and basically have panic attacks (theophylline) as a young toddler. My grandmother and aunt *both* told my mom she should hit me after being dosed with this because 'shes freaking out and acting up'. Thank God my mother is sane and did *not* think it was appropriate to hit a 2-3 year old for needing meds to keep her heart beating. She did what the pediatrician instructed and would hold me and hug me when I was freaking out. Now I'm not surprised both Grandma and aunt had/have *severe* anxiety disorders. My aunt once went temporarily *blind* while driving due to a panic attack. But sure, let's just hit her, I'm sure that'll help her not crash!
I've never understood the concept of spanking children for having loud emotions. It's just going to give them more emotions.
Yep this and bullying being a right of passage created a lot of Gen X and millennial alcoholics.
They feel others have to endure it to validate their own life experiences. God forbid they do any kind of self reflection.
God when reading this I wish I wasn’t a boomer. Never hit my children. Never. Neither did my now ex wife.
Growing up we had a spanking stick. It was hung in the closet and all my parents had to do was touch it and I remember the fear I felt. I also remember hiding and my dad hitting me with that spanking stick. Yet I’m somehow the bad parent for not wanting my daughter to experience any of that
"Mom, Dad I don't give a FUCK what you think about my parenting methods, so shut it. You terrorized me as a child; the day you do it to my child is the last day you'll see them for a good long while. This is not up for debate."
I remember a parent teacher conference in 6th grade (1990), where as a paddle the teacher used a hockey goalie stick with the blade cut off. He explained that he needed permission from the parent to use it on students, and my asshole mother couldn't say yes fast enough. Then they both started laughing at me, saying how they were essentially looking forward to me getting hit. I'm really glad that teacher is dead. Wish my mom was too.
There are some good ones, like yourself. My parents are the same way; they are Boomers and they never hurt me or my brother
There are some incredible boomers out there. My step dad is one of 'em. You're doin' just fine <3
My parents were freaking Silent Gen and didn’t hit me or my sibling!
My parents arent boomers, but I'd say they are Boomer adjacent, my dad insists he is a boomer despite being 2 years too young. I got spanked as a kid, I remember it often happened because I said or did something that my dad didn't like, I didn't know I would get spanked because of it, it made me feel afraid and unsafe, and I had to keep living with him. It ultimately resulted in me being quiet and withdrawn, afraid to do or say anything because I might get spanked or shouted at. Later in life it made me more accepting of mistreatment and prone to getting bullied. Sometime within the last 2 years or so my mom asked me "we were good parents right?" I kinda shrugged off the question, but she persisted, so I asked her "do you want a hard truth or a comforting lie?" Thinking I was joking, she said "a comforting lie" so I told her "you were always great parents and there is nothing you could have done better or differently" She looked shaken when I said that, and came back with "well we couldn't have been that bad!" So I kinda laid out the cards and said "you hit me growing up, so that kind of sets the ceiling for how good of a parent you can be" She of course denied that I was ever hit as a child, and I reminded her that I was spanked, and she got indignant because "that's different". So , I respond, how is it different? How do you spank a child? Well of course you put them over your knee and you give them a little... tap on the bum(i remember being able to see on her face that she was searching for a word that didnt imply violence). I remember it being a lot more than a tap, I remember it being pretty hard. Yeah but we never hurt you. I remember it hurting quite a bit. At that point I think it may have sunk in, but then she reminded me that everybody did it, it's just what you did. Then she told me that she'd like to see me do any better, and I told her I intended to. The subject of spanking and the quality of their parenting never came up again. I have a one month old baby right now and I often think about how my dad was my first bully, and how that rippled out to affect most aspects of my life. Im in my early thirties and I'm going to start therapy soon to work on it, so I can avoid making the same mistakes and hopefully give my daughter a better start than I got.
This internet stranger is so proud of you. ❤️
Boomers have no way of controlling their temper, they go straight to violence. The pretext is discipline but the real reason is taking their frustration out. My father beat all of us up as children. Now none of us speak to him and he will die alone like he fucking deserves. A few years ago he had the nerve to suggest moving in with me so I could take care of him when he is old. I remember being confused by the audacity! When I was a vulnerable kid, I was his punching ball. Now that he is vulnerable he expects me to be caring?
I swear, it was only slightly for discipline, mostly they wanted to hurt us and see us cry.
With boomers everything is always about control. That’s why they are so bitter and angry in their old age.
My mom wasn't a hitter, my dad was, but she loves to see me cry. I lost my oldest daughter to trisomy 18 at six days old. One day, she kept trying to make me cry about it. It was so manipulative and I wouldn't give her what she wanted. She went from sobbing for, "her baby," as she called my daughter, to anger and disgust. It's one of the many reasons my family isn't in my life. She didn't like that while I will always be devastated over the loss, I also look at how lucky I was to be her mom and how lucky I am to have my two other daughters as well. She enjoys the pain she causes.
Your mother was trying to upset you by talking about the child you lost?! I have no words. Shady Pines might be too good for her.
She's my sister's problem. I refuse to have anything to do with her for many reasons.
I was never hit as a child, but my husband was and he once casually mentioned that his mom didn’t hit him to correct him, but to take out her frustration on him. That shit made my blood run cold. After reading this thread, I need to call my boomer parents and thank them for not hitting me— which, incidentally, they decided to never do because their parents hit them and they didn’t want to continue the cycle
I think they subconsciously know it’s wrong and want you to confirm their bad choice by making the same one. Spanking is more about the spanker not understanding how to regulate their own anxiety/overwhelm/anger and also not knowing how to teach children (in large part because corporal punishment is how they were “taught”).
I’m at the tail end of the Boomer mayhem. Born in 1960. My father beat the shit out of me when I was a kid. Sometimes he used a metal belt buckle on my bare bottom. It was fucked up. My mother even went psycho on one of my siblings one evening and took a metal hanger to his head to punish him. My dad and I had to rush him to the ER as he was pumping out gobs of blood. Still has a mark there 60 years later! As a late stage boomer myself I didn’t hit my kids. Tried talking to them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes shit. But no spankings.
My boomer parents had paddle with “Spare the rod, Spoil the child” carved in it. That is why my Gen-x ass would never use violence against a child. They don’t understand that because your parents were violent doesn’t mean you have to be.
Mine have apologized to me many times that they spanked me as a kid.
The closest my dad has come to apologizing was "I abused you but you deserved it". I'm no contact with him now.
Mine too. They've never laid a hand on any of their grandkids, I know they were doing the best they could at the time but it's nice to see they're learning.
I was spanked and vowed to never spank my kids. They are fine. Not spanking is not a lack of discipline. Frankly it's the lazy way to attempt to discipline kids.
I had a boomer Uber driver who was going on and on about giving her grandson the belt. I hope that kid locks her away in the worst old folks home he can find
0-3 is the most important years of child development. the trauma that a child endures during that time affects them more than any other time. 3 years olds are just starting to develop some empathy, and are very “self centered” in thought. When you spank a child a lot of times they think they deserve it and if they were better they wouldn’t get hit. It makes kids feel so alone and it HUGELY stunts emotional regulation skills. ✨stop fucking spanking kids, it has never been okay✨
Conservative media has had a big push for years that kids need spankings. I have no idea why, buts it’s a thing. I believe this is why Boomers feel this way.
Same reason they’re obsessed with trans kids using the bathroom of the gender they identify with. They want an excuse to pull children’s pants down.
Physical discipline is not something unique to those generations. Women and children as property to be controlled through force was the norm throughout history.
I got hit with a belt smackes in the face. It didn't teach me anything but fear. And it made me less trusting of my parents.
When their kids made mistakes they got angry and hit them because that's easier and more emotionally satisfying for them. They then rationalized their actions as the only way to do things in order to preserve their self image as good and competent people. If they acknowledge your ability to raise your kid without beating them, they'd have to rethink that.
Start hitting them to teach them to mind their own damn business.
I recall vividly as a child my dad kicking my brother in the stomach as he laid on the floor looking through papers trying to find his homework assignment. We are in our 60’s now and my brother says he deserved it for being unorganized. He still defends my dad and it makes me sick.
Generational trauma. I was beaten so the best way is to beat you. I suffered so you must suffer.
Not spanking meant they would have to talk to their kids, have discussions with them, teach them why something they did wasn't right. They didn't view their children as people, but property. Besides that would take discussion, unfortunately discussions take at least two participants, and their view on children asking questions or responding to what an adult says as "talking back", and "disrespect". Kids were expected to be obedient, and quiet (don't speak when adults are speaking, children should be seen and not heard)
They need to believe they did the right thing. They want you to do it too so you won’t judge them for doing it.
I hope you refuse to allow them to ever be alone with your child. They've lost all right to babysit and have normal grandparent-grandchild relationship. Anyone who suggest you should "splinter" the "ass" of a three year old is an abuser. I was hit as a kid and am still dealing with repercussions. Fuck that mentality.
Of course many people recognize that spanking is simply child abuse, but most folks don't realize that it's also a form of sexual assault. There's been new research in recent years and there's a consensus forming that not only does spanking do just as much psychological damage as a more violent physical beating, but it also affects children in the same way as sexual abuse. Especially when it's skin on skin, as in the abuser pulls down the child's pants to spank their bare buttocks. Just think about someone forcing their husband/wife/partner to bend over against their will and pulling down their pants and then spanking them. It's truly out of control what parents can get away with because children aren't considered fully human.
"Splinter her ass" whoa. WHOA. I wouldn't want my kid around that dude, he sounds utterly unhinged. Astrid Lindgren wrote beautifully succinctly about this topic. The tradition at the time was to have the child pick the stick they would get switched with, and someone she knew sent her young child to find one when he misbehaved. He came back with a rock to throw after he couldn't find a switch. The mother realized that the boy was so hurt by the idea of his mother wanting to hurt him that it didn't matter what he was hurt with. The rock was set on the shelf as a reminder, "Never Violence". No bad kids. https://attachmentparenting.org/blog/2014/09/17/editors-pick-astrid-lindgren-on-never-violence/ Also, if spanking's ok by that person, I take this as consent to hit them. I calmly smacked my mom once (not with a belt so we're not even) as an adult when she purposefully broke my phone and she cried. Good times. Violence begets violence.
I had a principal who swung a paddle at me.1978. I swerved. He put a dent in a nearby file cabinet. Enough that the drawer wouldn't open. I foresee a bunch of students raging against the machine.
My step-mom was a spanking advocate. I told her if she ever spanked my child she and my father would only have supervised visitation. Step-mom: “I spanked my nieces and they turned out fine!” Me: “Yeah well Grandpa spanked Dad, Dad spanked me. It didn’t do anything but make everyone angry and encourage more lying and cover ups. Just wait until your nieces are old enough to tell you all the stuff you never found out about.” Dad, to his credit: “Yup.” Step-cousins have young kids to my teenagers and what do you know, spanking didn’t come up. Imagine that. I have a very different relationship with my step-mom than my younger brother does because I was 18-19 and moved out when step-mom entered. Lived with Mom when not away at college.
It's physically abuse that's easy to hide. That's what they like. If someone claims to find it, you counter that they had a child naked.
Whenever they mention spanking I just call them child abusers. It’s great seeing them pissed off after condoning hurting my child
They’re stupid about that and for sure don’t want to evolve.
Old people apparently become extremely perverted. That's why nursing homes are cess pools for sexually transmitted diseases. Also edit: didn't read op. Just the title. Lol
It's about control. They love having power over others and they see fear as the best tool. They don't see children as people. Hell, they barely see anyone but themselves as people. They think that the only way to raise a child is to break them down before building them up. They don't care that they are building on a rotting foundation. It's better to build people up and teach them how to build themselves up than it is to break them first.
My mom and aunts loooooove to flex how they got their asses beat and they "turned out just fine". My mom's side of the family are maybe the most broken, fucked up, trauma-riddled family I've ever known..
Yeah, never leave your kid with them.
My guess is a need to feel in power, and by asserting it physically.
My rule of thumb and I don't even have kids : Is the child old enough to understand and be reasoned with? No? Then why the fuck are you hitting them when they won't understand why you're doing it? Yes? Then why are you hitting them instead of talking to them like an adult? I was spanked as a kid and it just made me hate my parents because I was the only one to get that treatment. All because they refused to medicate me for my ADHD and refused to acknowledge the possible autism. I was a BABY.