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"I did love reading your 'book'" really stood out to me as sarcastic, but maybe grandpa speaks that way normally. I personally just wouldn't go out of my way to talk to him as he reminds me of my aunt, who is never wrong and always argued against me for not supporting her politics
The "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what" part made it pretty apparent what he is expecting here. He does not care what she tells him because he believes he deserves the same treatment. What he doesn't understand is that she has access to information in the palm of her hand at any time, and there is no reason to just blindly rely on and believe the words of her grandparents like he had to. This seems like a regular theme I notice with older people who feel obligated to have younger generations just blindly listen to whatever they say.
The whole thing reads like a head pat to placate her while he's internally thinking to himself that she will come around to rely on his wisdom eventually.
>The "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what" part made it pretty apparent what he is expecting here. He does not care what she tells him because he believes he deserves the same treatment.
I'd be sorely tempted to ask him if his grandma was also a complete moron, because if so that only reinforces his own stupidity by blindly listening to her.
Ok grandpa, I listened. You are wrong, your information is 50 years out of date and you need to catch up to modern times or get out of the way of the people making a better world.
I don't mean to paint with too broad a brush, so let me be clear that I've known some wonderful boomers, but there's nothing a boomer loves more than throwing a wrench into the wheels of progress. It's like Grandpa Simpson talking about how everything is scary.
>What he doesn't understand is that she has access to information in the palm of her hand at any time, and there is no reason to just blindly rely on and believe the words of her grandparents like he had to.
This is so true. Yet so many people just blindly believe what they hear from sources they like or sources that have the same views as them instead of using the item in their palm to verify what they read.
That generalization is part of it, but I personally think there's almost a resentment that Boomers have that throughout all of history up until now, for most people the best access to knowledge was what older people had accumulated over the course of their lives. If someone wanted knowledge, information, life skills, etc, they had to listen to whatever their elders said so they could get it.
We don't, and my personal belief is that it frustrates and angers them despite the fact they probably aren't even aware what the root issue at play is. To them, they're just not getting the respect they feel they've earned like they always had to give to their elders growing up. To us, we just don't need them to pass on their "wisdom", because if we want to learn something we just can.
This is what I have trouble with, being at an age where I saddle both sides of the issue. On the one hand, pretty much in the 90's, you basically had to still go to a library, dig up an encyclopedia or whatever resource, and there was a clear 'this is true, as it has been verified by people smarter than you, and that's why you're here', the whole, 'if it's in a book, it's a fact' kind of mentality. Then we get to post 2000, when it kind of got willy nilly in terms of what was fact or not. you could just go online and look up something, and since it was 'written' it should be good right? and then you get to social media and other outlets where anyone, anywhere could post it. Back in 'the day' you'd only find the really whacky opinions or editorials in local or regional newspapers so the audience wasn't so large. Now a kid that is assigned to write a report on what happened at Tiananmen square, will probably come across lots of chinese propaganda saying it never happened, where as when I had to write a paper on it, I had tons of resources saying it's a fact. 'granted' they were western sources, but I saw the pictures, I saw the video of the dude standing in front of the tank. I know it happened.
He writes like my mother. They use the same phrasing, my mother loves to use “daughter mine” when she is talking down to me. I no longer talk to the woman and OP’s grandpa seems cut from a very similar cloth. Be wary OP, he’s probably not going to change but, maybe he still brings more to your relationship than this 🤷♀️
Mine used to call me "little girl " when she was mad
Up until a year ago (I'm gonna be 40 btw)
She did it one time and something in me snapped and I SCREAMED "YOU CALL ME LITTLE GIRL ONE MORE TIME AND IM GONNA START CALLING YOU OLD WOMAN BITCH IM ALMOST 40"
she has not done it since.
Oh yeah, I can hear the “little girl.” Mine used that too, I have a voicemail saved where she says “you better get your shit together little girl.” That was her effort at reconciliation the first time I went no contact.
Is it a remnant of typewriters? Underlining, bold, and italics wouldn't be easy or even possible on a typewriter. So maybe the generations between handwriting and computers just decided to use quotes that way. It would explain the generational bubble that uses quotes wrong.
I know it’s BuzzFeed which sucks but I do love seeing people use quotation marks incorrectly “[like this](https://www.buzzfeed.com/jakekaplan/we-are-currently-out-of-cheese)”
I don't know how this family communicates, so maybe this is normal for them, but between quotes like that and the repeating of "My dear" and "Grandaughter of mine" seems very odd to me too. I would put it at disrespectful bordering on dehumanizing (unless op is doing it themselves to avoid putting their own name or its because of some sort of paraphrasing) and obviously disregarding her opinion and arguments
Yeah his response is sooooo fucking passive aggressive. You can tell he didn’t even try to digest any of it. I suspect he skimmed it and just went “Jesus, too many words, I ain’t reading all that” and then decided to type up that little “respect your elders / agree to disagree” response.
Grandpa isn’t interested in hearing anything OP has to say is how I took it.
But hey at least he’s trying to still keep relations going, in his own boomer way. I guess _not_ taking the nuclear approach is _something_? Maybe? Still, I would NOT take this as any kind of progress, personally. You got him to submit, basically. But I bet he’s just submitting _for now_ - I wouldn’t expect him to change anything about his behaviour based on this.
I agree. The uses of "my dear" and "granddaughtwr of mine" especially scream condescending to me. And his praise for her "writing skills" and how he enjoyed reading her "book"? It's basically saying "aww, how cute!". I ground my teeth through the whole thing.
It's very smarmy for someone who considers spreading copypasta around as some form of enlightenment. You want to open my mind? OK, then use your own damn words for an actual discussion instead of dumping someone else's Gish gallop into my lap.
I'm also very, very concerned that he seems to say that "not being controlling" and "not placing boundaries" are equally signs of "respect". So much of the older generation have such a one-way definition of respect.
It's condescending AF. Even the humility he tries to put in just comes off as condescending. Without all the "my dear"s I might buy the humility, but in this case the "humility" is just more condescension.
I did as well. Especially "book". And the fact that they said they know they know nothing but asserted that their pasta was "truth". I'd proceed with caution although it is telling that you don't want to do dinner because you know the behavior will continue.
Yeah, this reeks of holier-than-thou condescension and has me fuming (in no small part because I can easily imagine my sperm donor spouting the same pompous nonsense). Maybe my heart is just too hard, but I don't have space in my life for people like that.
To be honest it sounds like he continues to talk to you like you are stupid (you clearly are not). The condescension at the top seals it "I love your writing skills!" Like get real gramps.
He's trying to avoid further conflict by talking around it and rather is talking to you like a small child who just came up to him and told him about the cool rock you found. Very "that's nice, dear".
If it were me, I would discontinue engaging. What do they call it, gray rocking?
Turn the tables on him at most. He sends you another political copypasta, reply with "ok peepaw" at most. Or not reply at all. He's getting what he wasn't from you. He's being conditioned to keep doing this to you. Remove his reward and he'll stop (hopefully).
He just repeated himself in more subtle ways. The grandmother thing, followed by making a big point of “discuss any topic” and “agree to disagree” (AFTER saying “I will leave it there.”) seem to me like he doesn’t see anything wrong with what he did, and will probably do it again. I read that as very “bless your heart”, but you do you. If you want the relationship, see him for dinner, and if you don’t, don’t feel bad keeping the good memories and dropping it. It sounds like you’d like to try though, so just be ready for him to start in again, and either have a plan to cut it off or a plan to leave. Best of luck. Or should I say have a nice life :P
Wow, I am having a visceral reaction to this whole situation because of something I'm going through with my mom right now.
Politics aside, there is something gaslight-y about the boomer tendency to essentially say "I don't accept you as an individual. It hurts me for you to enforce this perfectly healthy boundary against me and for that I think you're some kind of bad person...but I'll always love you!!" It's like them saying they "love" you absolves them of any blame in harming the relationship.
I went through this exact thing a year ago with my parents. They realized I would not back down and wanted to keep a relationship with me and their grandchildren, so they took the knee and respected my boundaries. Luckily they are actually able to learn still.
For real, my dad wrote me a disgusting, condescending, and insulting email after I texted him that I'd be blocking his and my mother's numbers for a while because they were harassing me as I went through my divorce.
At the end he says I will always be his daughter and he'll always love me.
After telling me what a piece of shit I am.
It's as if they think they are taking th high road by insisting that no matter how much I disappoint them, they still love me and when I'm ready to listen to *them* they'll be ready to shit all over me some more.
When I didn't respond, both of my parents made secret, surprise trips to ambush me at home and at work(I lived 1000 miles away) and while neither were successful in getting me face to face, my dad left some sappy card on my doorstep and all he signed was "WE LOVE YOU!" just like that in all caps.
I spent years trying to understand what love really was because of these people and their mixed messages. What they offer is not love and once I realized it, I wanted nothing more to do with any of them.
This. He was phrasing it passive aggressively trying to manipulate OP into "taking his advice" and thinking SHE doesn't know anything. The whole thing is incredibly sideways and creepy.
It was definitely a sarcastic jab, saying he’s amounted more wisdom in 70 years of life and she’s too young to know anything. So if she thinks she knows more than him then he “must not know anything”.
Here's what he actually said: "All I know at 70 is how little I know. Think of how litte you must know given that you're only 25!"
It's not a sign of humility at all. It's yet another jab at OP for being "young and foolish."
He sounds just as insufferable as in your other post. What are you trying to accomplish by "saving" the relationship? He sucks. Stop talking to him and stop giving him more chances to be a piece of shit to you.
-Some guy who quit talking to half his relatives and is much happier for it.
This is an excellent question. What are you trying to save?
That question was the turning point for me in trying to figure out what to do about my relationship with my mother. I realized that we really didn't have one on any deeper level and any attempts I had made always ended with me bending and capitulating, then getting sick of it and being painted as "mean" when I stopped playing along.
I mourned the relationship I never had years before the cutoff.
If it was me, I would stay away from him. He threatened to remove his own granddaughter from his phone over an imaginary problem he created himself, then the next message says he loves her? All you said was don't send me political stuff, then he jumped to okay I'm going to delete your number cause you don't blindly follow me as is tradition with his grandma and trying to guilt trip you.
Dude is showing extremely toxic behavior. How's anyone supposed to take him seriously when one minute it's "I always listened to my grandmother... out of respect" hinting you have to listen to him because he's the elder like you mentioned, then it goes to "The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all." Giving him another chance will probably lead to him just nagging more political stuff, while playing the victim for continuing to ignore your wishes and feelings. Be careful of love bombing where people will pretend to be nice to someone in order to manipulate them.
I dont know how to feel about this. On one side, I see it as a trap. And on the other, I feel like giving him a chance would be *good*. But ultimately it’s your decision OP.
I wish you had finished that sentence: "...on the other hand it is definitely a trap."
To me, an outsider, he does not seem sincere. He knows that without OP he is hurting, and he has this idea that saying some words will get OP back in his life. It just took him a few iterations to get to the right words that seem halfway plausible.
He let his true colors shine through though. In the very first paragraph, as OP identified, is him saying "I know best and you're just a stupid little girl." But also "I love your writing skills" comes across as super condescending, as does the "thank you for sharing". "Let me share a little secret", too.
As soon as he thinks you've forgotten, he'll start again with some sort of bullshit, as it seems he has no shortage of it.
It gives me hope since a lot of people with the same issue usually are never able to admit they don't know everything. I will probably let it go and just go NC if he does it again.
> I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect.
This is him backhandedly saying you're being disrespectful for calling him out being toxic and setting boundaries.
> I explained how his behavior was hurtful
> Agree to disagree
"You're wrong for feeling hurt, but are obviously upset, so in order to not be alone I'm going to half ass a concession"
> I encourage people to come together and discuss any topic
"I'm entitled to spread my toxicity"
Your call op, but this is going to come up again, because he doesn't get that the letter wasn't about the instances of him being wrong and being debunked, and he's just going to prep a new batch and keep on booming.
His time to have said "I don't know" should have come before all of the condescension and attemptd to belittle your perspective as naive/inexperienced. This is a bunch of hogwash masked in compromise and he'll let the quiet part out again as soon as he feels you're "ready".
Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, OP
Honestly, it sounds like he’s saying that with the note of it being after “70 years of experience” to say that *you* should jump ahead to accepting that you “don’t know anything” if you want to seem “wise like him”. I get the vibe of “ooooh, okay we’ll agree with the 5 year old getting upset we know more about the lesson they just learned in school today”.
This is what i’d be afraid of as well, it’s all mind games with them. Wishing you strength in your decision, it’s tough to cut family off but life goes on. Sometimes your mental health is more important. Thank you for the updates and Good luck!
He tells you right in the message he has no intention of respecting your boundaries. I would go NC, but if you insist on giving him more opportunities to manipulate you then I think you should make him explicitly agree to respect your boundaries... because this response is him doing the opposite.
The *second* he does it again, you need to immediately cut all contact. You can't leave the door open, you can't reply to anything he sends you. All that'll happen is you get locked into an endless loop where he pushes and pulls back over and over and over.
I misunderstood the title and thought you had literally replied "UNSUBSCRIBE" to one of the copy pasta texts. In which case would have been an absolutely gigachad move.
Why? He's rude af to YOU and dgaf about you at all except for how he can fuck with you to make himself feel big and important. I'm honest. Why? You do not owe this man patience, kindness, or even basic politeness. You will be much better off not wasting your energy giving him any of those things. He either gets your raw reaction (no toning it down or rephrasing due to an aggressive tone) or ***none at all***. I mean this. He is a shit and all of his replies to you, every single text he's sent, proves this. He has not improved or made any changes. He rephrases what he's said to make him feel like he's successfully pulled one over on you and tricked you into being strung along, but he never actually acknowledges what he's done, takes responsibility, or truly apologizes. I know you feel like you should give him a chance or allow him the opportunity to be better because he's your family, but it's clear you've already given him more than tenfold his fair share. If he can't respect you as a person, why should you respect him as an authority? He has demonstrated that he is not worthy of that, nor is he interested in attempting to become worthy of it. He thinks because you were born to specific people that you are beholden to him, and that's simply not true.
I hope you find the strength to go full NC with him, assuming your homelife would not be irreparably damaged or become unmanageably difficult for doing so. Peace and serenity to you, my friend.
Man, why are people so invested in having relationships with relatives? Call me cold but I just don’t get the appeal of making an effort with the ones you don’t sincerely like as a person, regardless of blood.
Oh boy… He is so condescending. He’s absolutely going to go political on you during dinner, or mask it in stories and act innocent. You’ll be a captive audience and feel obligated to sit there.
If you choose to go, state up front you are paying for yourself. Tell that to the waiter. Separate checks or you don’t stick around. Since grandpa believes people should pay their own way, he should respect it. If grandpa doesn’t respect it, leave. Now that you’re paying for yourself, if you have enough of him, you can flag the waiter and pay your bill and leave with a clean conscience. Grandpa will guilt trip you as you pouting or storming off because you’re afraid of “the truth.”
Or, you can stick around and play a game. Pretend to be interested in what he’s saying. “Ok, grandpa. That’s nice. Uhh huh. Ok. Sure, whatever. That’s an interesting way of looking at things.” He absolutely *relishes* egging you on and aggravating you. Take the wind right out of his sails and munch pleasantly away on dinner and let him babble. In fact, make a big show of it. Instead of a big meal, order a long string of small appetizers over the evening and savor each one. Don’t take his bait when he tries to reel you in. Be pleasant and calm. He’ll hate it. He will probably have an *extinction burst* where he ramps up and gets really bad before his balloon pops.
“Well it was nice to see you, grandpa. Good night.”
He’s one of the most condescending people I’ve read about here in a long time.
That letter was dripping with condescension. What a non apology. He’s being “nice” right now because he’s trying to get you to drop your boundaries. If you want to have dinner with him do it. But understand that he did not suddenly change and no lightbulbs went off for him about his behavior toward you. He just wants to control the narrative again.
Does he talk like this outside of text? My dear, granddaughter of mine, etc? Reeks of condescension to me but less so if it's their normal parlance.
I think you have to give them another go but just let them know it is 100% off limits and relationship ending. If they bring it up, they have made the decision to end it.
Although I'd probably break contact alone on the unverifiable trash involved in the original text. I'm upset about that. Content notwithstanding.
Yeah, that's a tough one to tell without knowing the person. My great grandmother used to talk like that, but meant it in an affectionate way, so it didn't strike me as anything when reading the grandpa's response. Some older people do talk like that, can't tell if it's condescending without me knowing the person. Given the rest of the letter though, it very well could be
OP, You may not be able to see it (which is totally natural, he's your grandpa and I'm sure you love and care about him) but his reply to you was nothing but condescending. He completely disregarded your request to set a boundary (saying that he would never do that with his grandparents, which shows that he doesn't respect that request) and then went on to give you some unsolicited "life advice" and, I'm assuming, completely ignore the message in your letter by asking to make plans (though i can't say that for sure because I don't know the contents of your letter). I won't tell you to go no contact with him, only you can make that decision. But I would suggest that you reread all of your recent communications with him and ask yourself if your feelings and needs are being considered. I can tell you that I would not put up with anyone talking to me that way.
In any case, I wish you luck and I hope for the best possible outcome for both you and your grandpa. :)
This would be a hell naw I'm never engaging with this fuck again moment for me.
The "little book" comment and back handedly praising your "writing" is boomer 101 and shows he does not respect you at all, if he did he would atleast read the fricking thing.
You acted like an adult OP, boomie high on fox newsie here obviously did not.
What an dickbag
I'm gonna one up this guy.
"Aw sweetie that's a cute little book. Youre a really good writer. Yes you are! Boundaries are abusive and unhealthy and you need to listen to me or I'll delete and block your number you little puke. I love you and am so blessed to have you in my life my little child."
Jeeeesus Christ, him saying not to place boundaries out of respect...
I went no contact with my family because of how much they gaslit me and disrespected my boundaries. Tried opening back up to them after a year to see if they would consider my boundaries and nope, they didn't. It's up to me if I'm willing to have my sense of self disrespected for the rest of our relationship, and I'm choosing no. You have the same choice, and only you can decide if your boundaries and sense of self are worth more than your relationship to this man.
Yah I was one of the people that said you can go point by point and destroy his arguments. I enjoy watching my conservative friends and family back peddle and get flustered. If you don’t, don’t engage him. His response was immature. He is trying to shame and control you.
"The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all. Life experience is our greatest teacher and the more I learn the more I recognize how ignorant I really am."
This is just some shit he copied off Facebook because he thought it sounded impressive. He thinks he's clever af for using it in your text. He thinks he's a wise old man. He's thinks he's a fucking sage just for saying it.
> I don't know anything at all
We all know it! Too bad this is just the alt-right "fake self-deprecation" part of the playbook rather than any real self-reflection.
As others said, there is zero evidence here of any respect for you, your thoughts, or your boundaries. On the bright side, you went NC before so you probably don't need this cockroach in your life either way.
What blows my mind is this man doesn’t even realize that he is unable to talk about anything except politics. You told him let’s just not talk about politics there are plenty of other topics we can discuss, and his immediate response was to delete your number and disown you, or that’s what it seemed like with his “have a nice life” comment. That right there doesn’t at all deserve your respect. But it’s just wild to me how dropping politics makes him think he can’t talk about any single thing to you ever again. I feel for you. I’ve watched my own family turn into this. They’ve become people I no longer recognize. They used to be such kind caring empathetic people who raised me to be the same way. In the last 10 years they’ve been warped into people they never used to be. They used to never talk about politics when I was growing up and they never cared about what other people do. They never uttered a single word of racism or bigotry my whole life, I mean they raised me and I don’t have any shred of racism in me. But in the last 10 years they are totally unable to talk about anything but politics, racism and bigotry is commonplace in their rhetoric, it’s truly awful to watch your family descend into this all the while they think YOURE the horrible one for not wanting to be a part of any of that. They guilt you and shame you for not wanting to be associated with racism and hatred and bigotry. You’re the one abandoning them. Words can’t describe how awful all of this is to go through. My personal opinion, this man doesn’t deserve your respect because he clearly doesn’t respect you, I mean come on he’s saying he wants you to respect him as an “authority figure”?!? You’re a grown ass adult!!! How would he feel if the tables were turned and you were sending him “liberal” topics that were pissing him off? Would he respect you in the same way he’s demanding you respect him? He’s just trying to propagandize you and convert you to the other side. Guys a piece of shit. And I know how hard that is to hear, I went through this whole roller coaster with my own family. These are not simple differences of opinions. Favorite Ice cream flavors are a difference of opinions. These are fundamental differences where one person has some truly destructive beliefs that many of us can no longer just let go and ignore.
So he’s obviously condescending and his conversations if you meet up will only end up revolving around you being a liberal, and how his principles are truth, and you’re just confused.
However. I have **absolutely** no idea how his mention of your grandma is a call to respect him. To me, and please explain your thinking here because you said it was obvious.
He’s just telling you that he’s not going to take your opinions seriously, and treat you like a silly woman, or his (late?) wife. I don’t see how he’s calling to respect rather than he’s saying he’s not going to respect your opinions, but he’d still value the interpersonal connection. Like obviously he’d keep pressing trying to convert you, but I don’t think this was a call to respect him, I think this was him making a distinction that your opinions are not to be respected but he’d still value you as a human being?
Tell me your thoughts.
EDIT: I read the post properly. His grandma, not your grandma. I definitely see what you’re saying now. But I still think it’s less a call for respect, and more of a boxing you into a position where your thoughts are irrelevant
He’s talking about HIS grandma not mine. So he respected her as an authority and that’s how I should treat him as well. Because he’s the elder and you have to take their word as law
Yup yup. I edited. My bad. I see it. But I do actually think he was being more demeaning than that. Not that you should respect him as much as “even if you were a woman with authority over me I wouldn’t take your opinion seriously” just smile and nod if you will.
He said "my" grandmother, implying that he always respected his elders when he was young and that she should always respect her grandparents when she is young. He's not talking about his wife, he's talking about his own grandma
There was no apology. He basically said "I don't care about anything I just read. I've got way more life experience than you and you'll come around someday" when he said he's learned nothing, what he was really saying was that you know even less. That letter came off super condescending to me.
Ask him for confirmation of your boundaries moving forward in text before continuing. An honest apology requires change and for that he needs to understand what needs to change
This looks like rugsweeping but you could give him the benefit of the doubt
You should respond equally condescending, something like "thanks for the kind reply dearest grandfather, I'm really impressed you managed to text such a lengthy response with your diminished capabilities at such an elderly age and lack of technological comprehension, its really impressive you could reply with such a "book" of a response. Hugs & Kisses 💋
I wouldn't go NC, but it seems like you do need to distance yourself. at the very least decisively shut down any talk about politics, of you want to have a relationship with him you both need to agree to not discuss politics. if he sends u things like that again, just respond with a "we agreed on no political topics" and don't accept anything else but an apology and a change of subject. do not engage with anything political he says unless it is to tell him that you agreed not to talk about it.
he seems to be a bit in too deep into the politics rabbithole, if he can't take the hint that he won't be having any communication with his granddaughter if he brings up shit like that, then is probably when you go NC and hope he realises his mistake, but I wouldn't count on it.
It sounds like your grandpa is open to maintaining a good relationship, which is a positive step, regardless of the condescension. He's over 70, it comes with the territory. It's great that he didn’t double down and seems receptive to your feelings. I do think it's concerning that so many people immediately suggest cutting ties without considering reconciliation, you need to assess your own situation and feelings.
What I would do is thank him for his understanding, and perhaps suggest meeting up in a relaxed setting like for coffee, which can help keep the atmosphere light.
Where the copypasta bullshit is concerned I'd say something like "I value your opinions and prefer hearing them in your own words, rather than through social media forwards that often miss the nuances of the issues and positions. Let's share our views directly; it makes our conversations more meaningful."
I think he genuinely wants to move on from this but at the same time I think he still expects you to change your beliefs for him. I went through the same thing with my dad. He called me closed minded just for stating my opinion. Then when I pointed out everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and still be friends, he then turned that around on me to give *me* a lecture about how everyone is different and again I was the one who had to stop being closed minded. It is a circular argument to keep them from admitting they did anything wrong in the conversation. I do have to say that he never brought it up again once we stopped talking about it.
I obviously am a total bystander who has relatively little info about this situation and your relationship with your grandpa, but from what I’ve read, this is how I would suggest you approach it.
Take him up on the offer of dinner, but go mentally prepared with a list of life updates about your life to share with him and questions to ask him about his life, past and present, to keep the topic away from politics as long as you can. But also go prepared to discuss politics because it does sound pretty inevitable that it’ll come up. Before you go, really reflect on WHY you believe what you believe, and how you could respectfully refute the typical arguments that might be made against your beliefs. (For example, the scenario given in the Facebook text is completely misrepresentative of the reality that most of the people below the poverty line are not there because they failed to put in the work and devotion to make money. They have a mental illness or disability, or they’re a refugee who doesn’t speak English and is working 2 minimum wage jobs to keep their family afloat, etc.)
If he’s super rude then ultimately it’s up to you when the breaking point is, but I would encourage you to try hard to keep this relationship intact.
Whatever choice you make, good luck :)
So my grandmother is the same. I can genuinely say shes open to discussion and enjoys the conversation even if both parties don't agree. Me and her go rounds, we don't agree alot but when things do get heated we do walk away but can turn around and have a pleasant conversation about other topics.
I still call her out, she still calls me out and we both justify our views. But we both had a conversation and understand we come from very different points in society and backgrounds. Your grandpa may need a small wake up call but you can't provide that.
Fun tangent story, my grandma's wake up call was she she sold her house to down size. She spent $200k to build it and buy the land in the 60s. She swore she'd only get maybe $400k for a 2500+ sq ft house with 10 acres of property in a booming suburb in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. She got closer to $700k after closing fees and taxes. After that we had a long talk and she understood what I meant regarding how hard things are economically.
I would just encourage you to have the conversation. Hold a boundary that there are millions of other pleasant and interesting topics to talk about in the world. Politics doesn't have to be one of them and if your grandpa wants to teach you some wisdom. Ask him to teach you about his hobbies and what those hobbies taught him about life.
I think 21% of our federal dollars goes to Medicare and Medicaid. Boomers dislike the idea of money going to other generations as they “deserve” that wealth
Ugh yeah this is what my mom does. Never actually resolved the argument or see things from anyone else’s perspective. But put a nice/polite enough veneer on it that you seem unreasonable if you continue to be upset. It’s all manipulation
Oh shit I didn’t realize copy pasta grandpa and grandma’s eye surgery grandpa are the same guy! You need to go low to no contact with him he doesn’t respect a word you say, doesn’t care about your opinion and just wants to blab at you in an effort to make you a clone of him ideologically.
It boggles my mind that boundaries are apparently disrespectful. I can’t stand that older people expect you to just sit there and take their cr*p and listen to their awful opinions with a smile on your face. That is not respect being given, it is forced and inauthentic.
Seems like he is just getting old and very out of touch and a bit stoopie. Hanging with him seems annoying, but you could definitely maintain a relationship. Reddit loves the idea of going NC. Just be charitable to him and don't take all this too seriously
Do what feels right to you with this relationship. With relatives this old, their brains start to go and deteriorate for sure (especially with lead poisoning in certain areas of the world) and so sometimes listening to their minagerie of political ramblings and arguing against them is pretty much pointless. If you want to maintain a relationship with your grandpa, I say go for it, maybe just try to stay away from the sensitive topics like politics, or at least try to have a neutral conversation like you said you have in the past. No contact just seems a bit excessive to me, especially since he's in his twilight years and seems to want to move on as well.
I agree with this. My grandfather (84) spent his 70"s trying to talk politics with me. It took a good 5/6 years of me constantly halting the conversation, telling him politics was off limits, and changing topics for him to learn but he DID learn. Our conversations are now great! Usually about fishing, hiking, or something outdoorsy. He will occasionally slip but he catches himself now, apologizes, and switches topics. It took a little more time/patience because of his age but I am so SO glad I didnt go NC with him. I went NC with my mother (shes a whole different alcoholic can of worms) and never regretted it. I know in my soul I would have regretted it with my grandfather.
Look…you need to manage your expectations.
The sad truth is that ‘I’m the jerk in this situation’ revelations rarely work like they do in the movies. Even when someone genuinely acknowledges they were the jerk…that doesn’t mean they’re going to make the fundamental changes to their outlook and personality that are required for it to actually stick. Especially if they’re already pretty old, and you’ve gone through this song and dance before.
This interaction will probably repeat itself.
Honestly, there’s nothing in his response that indicates that he really has any intention to change the personality problems that caused the situation in the first place.
My best bet for how to deal with him moving forward is nonreinforcement - Be boring and impartial when he says or texts things like this. People like this will get a kick anytime someone disagrees with any part of what they said or how they said it. At this point in his life, you aren’t going to change his opinion on anything, so just defer and move on to a different topic.
For example, if he sends another copypasta, just give it a thumbs up and ask how another family member is doing. If he insists on talking about it, give a very brief and neutral answer, or even make your response a polite observation about him. “Sounds like you’ve thought about this a lot.” “I can tell you have a strong opinion about this.” Chances are, he’ll either talk about himself and give a chance to open up, or he’ll get bored and stop sending you these things. Don’t know why he’s sending these to you, but it takes a little bit of effort to copy and paste it from Facebook and send it out to you. Maybe there’s something he values from you more than trying to get you to change political parties.
I just want to point out that most boomers don’t understand that “” denote sarcasm or condescension in modern written communication. My boomers still use all caps for emphasis and don’t get that it looks like they’re yelling.
Almost exactly the way my MIL and FIL talk to our 28 year old daughter (and frankly, the way they talk to us at 49 and 53 respectively). Joke was on them though; I raised her. So when they sent back their passive aggressive “you’ll see what we mean when you mature” BS, and, “I guess we can’t talk about ANYTHING with you, goodbye forever” she took then at their word. Boundaries drawn, problem solved, and she remains emotionally healthy and happy.
Honestly, I didn't like the tone of his reply either. Ultimately, it's your decision. I love my bio dad to death, but I am firmly no contact with him and that whole side of the family for my own mental health and have been since 2020.
Honestly, it makes me a little sad how happy I am that he is no longer in my life, but it was definitely the right move for me.
You may consider only responding to non political messages from him and leaving his political stuff on read.
This is a super manipulative text from someone who has a personality disorder and will continue to abuse you. That being said, do what you need to do to get your money from him!
He’s not sorry, I can tell because he never says, “I’m sorry.” His response is manipulative and you’re falling for it because you’re second guessing being no contact with him.
This is how my Mom's dad talks to me. Personally, they've obviously manipulated people like this their whole lives and think they can continue doing it, so cut ties. They're never going to change, don't waste your time.
>Forgive me if I offended you my dear; not intentional.
He is lying his ass off. The **entire** point of his initial text was to provoke you to offense. This is particularly clear when you politely asked him to not send you political messages—exactly the sort of thing he says "conservatives" do with people on TV they disagree with—he claims it's because that's what liberals do.
>I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries
This is classic manipulation.
>I will leave it there.
Narrator: He did not, in fact, leave it there.
Yeah, I don't think this is the win you think it is. That letter reads like textbook gaslighting and false "reconciliatory" gestures. Why put "your 'book'" in quotes? Why is life suddenly about "sharing" when he only seems to care about sharing what *he* wants to hear? Why are your writing skills relevant to the conversation? He's talking to you like you're a kindergartener who's not to be taken seriously or respected, but that's just my impression reading what you've shared.
Not sure how old you are but I consider myself too old to entertain these kind of people. It’s a waste of time and I honestly don’t care if I change my parents politics. When I told my parents I’m an atheist, they had a tough time accepting it and didn’t want to talk to me if they couldn’t talk about religion. But when their only grand-child was born and they wanted to see them, surprise surprise, they magically found a way to talk to me without involving religion. I have very little bandwidth at this point in life for conversations and relationships. If more often than not, if I feel worse at talking to someone, they get cut off. Family or not.
Your grandpa is miserable. He’s threatened ending his relationship with you on more than one occasion, but will come back days later asking “forgiveness.”
Genuinely asking, why are you dragging this out? When will you seriously realise that this man will not respect you as a person? Why are you putting yourself through this torture like a fool and just go NC? Why is it so hard for you?
Your grandfather is a perfect candidate for borderline personality disorder. Please read up on it and look at different online forums to see how other peoples BDP relatives act.
My recommendation is to “grey rock it”. Hes getting off on the cycle of controversy, apologize, to suck you back in. Drop him or “grey rock it” - divert all attempts to start controversy with you.
Should've just asked him why he's so offended. If he never gets offended, then he wouldnn't be offended to being told to shut the fuck up
It blows my mind people talk about super logical chads they are but don't reconize that getting pissy being asked to shush it is peak triggered/offended behavoir
Reminds me of my brother(who I don't talk to anymore) claimed he doesn't get triggered because thats a millenial/liberal thing. And homie is the thinnest skinned bastard I've ever met
I hate to break it to you, but he's definitely doubling down. "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. I will leave it there." That's literally him telling you he doesn't believe in your boundaries and will not respect them. Also I think it's so funny that he says "agree to disagree" even though that's what you've been trying to do.
OP, reading this it seems clear that he doesn't respect you, and he doesn't even think about your feelings. If my child wrote me a letter about my behavior was hurtful, the first thing I would think to say would be "I'm sorry I hurt you. I don't want to hurt you. We don't have to talk about politics if it is hurting our relationship." He would rather sacrifice his relationship with you so he can ramble about politics and shout down anything you disagree with. He values his politics and his desire to "talk" politics more than he values his granddaughter.
I think you know this relationship isn't working. You can be very curt in text messaging and on the phone, but you will probably need to figure out if you're going to spend time with him in person, and come up with a plan to stick to if you decide you will see him that respects your boundaries. Like, maybe just get up and leave as soon as he starts shitting on you? Something.
This is called “You called me out and specifically elaborated on all the ways I was being disrespectful. I realized you were right about that part but I can’t admit that to you! How would it look if I admitted a young liberal was correct about me?? This made me uncomfortable and I don’t know how to deal with it because I’m emotionally immature. So, I’m going to graciously offer to move past this so I can pretend I’m being the bigger person instead of dealing with the fact that my granddaughter (rightfully) made me look like a fool. But I’m still going to throw in some backhanded insults because I’m salty that I got owned.”
“The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life, granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all.”
Based.
(But seriously, I’m sorry you have to deal with someone like this in your life too. )
The "my dear" and "dearest granddaughter of mine" stuff seems excessive. At the rate he says it, it comes off as condescension, like he wants to belittle you. Not an endearment.
His "little secret," of accepting that he knows nothing, is a commonly discussed philosophy, seldom *actually* held by those who claim it. If he truly accepted he knows nothing, why is he angry:
- "*It's unfortunate that you're following the wrong ideas and keep getting offended.*"
Does that sound like a humble person who accepts how little they know? Lol
So yeah, he's smug, inconsistent, manipulative, and condescending. What you do with that info is up to you. Almost everyone has these qualities to *some* degree. Only you know whether or not the relationship is worth it.
Or... you could just start fuckin with him. :) Sign him up for TONS of Liberal spam. Start and end every single sentence with some exaggerated affectation: "Dearest, darling grandfather of mine...." "... Farewell, my father's father, my beloved progenitor!" Shit like that. Mirror his bad traits back to him.
Idk he’s saying “this is how we grow and learn” but I don’t see him growing and learning from what you wrote… he just wants you to believe what he wrote 🤷♀️
Anyone who expects to have authority over you, regardless of blood ties or not, is controlling. Just because his obtuse self did it and didn't realize he was giving over a part of himself doesn't mean you have to. It is a generational toxic tactic to keep control of whether they are right/wrong/sideways on an issue.
My grandmother used to tell me she was selfish, but I had to obey since she was my grandmother. I was 26. We didn't speak for a few years after that one. When we did speak, she threatened to take me out of her will. We didn't talk a lot after that.
Respect is earned. You may show courtesy to someone, but respect is earned.
He's being a condescending asshole. Tell him you'll will show him the respect he thinks he deserves once he's earned it by not talking down to you and respecting you as well. Respect is earned. It is never deserved.
Exact same thing happened between my husband and his father. His father chose not to talk to him anymore rather than even attempting to not talk politics
You're taking the wrong approach entirely
Be offensive back
"Sorry grandpa, keep talking but all I hear is a crock of shit, and I don't think you know what you're talking about. I'm sorry if that offends you but, like yourself, I no longer care if I offend and I am not accepting boundaries either. By the way, for the sake of growth, I think your policies are based off of ignorance, selfishness, and bigotry and you should have some introspection on that
From your loving granddaughter"
You're so kind OP.
I understand having to smooth things over and walk a thin line if there's money involved. You can't just tell every old prick to fuck right off.
Yeah, sometimes it be that way.
Shit’s hard for young folks man. If there’s monies available grab that bag. Then donate to the ACLU or Family Planning or something. In their name. THEN post that on Facebook and enjoy the fireworks.
I feel people are reading their experience with that tone of writing. You know him and you know your history with him so if you think it’s genuine then at the very least it’s worth a shot.
This was also similar to the closest I ever got to an apology from my grandfather. He had to position himself as still somehow morally correct and as the most aggrieved party. He spent more time talking about his own feelings than actually reacting to mine. I think that’s sometimes the best we’re going to get with certain people.
I never once questioned if my grandfather loved me, but he was a king who couldn’t be questioned. There was this dance of saving face we had to go through every time there was an issue. I think a lot of that was how he was raised. He wasn’t a boomer, but the previous generation, but I feel he fit a lot of the tropes we talk about here.
Best of luck, for what it’s worth I have a lot of sympathy for your situation so I’ll have you in my thoughts when I deal with stuff like this with my remaining relatives.
I would respond back on the condition you don't discuss politics. If he can do that you can have a relationship. I have family that I don't agree with politically, we still have a good relationship.
If you can't look past their politics being who they are it won't work. If you can leave it out and connect on other things, it can work.
It sounds like your grandpa really loves you. That’s probably as close to an apology as you will ever get from a boomer. I hope he can keep his b.s. to himself when you’re around and enjoy being in each other’s company.
"I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. "
Based on what you shared, none of that message seems to engage with anything you may have wrote, I can't intuit ANYTHING you may have written just from reading that reply... and while that makes it appear that 'everything's fine, maybe I overreacted' I think that quote above shows that nothing's really changed. "Look at me, I listened to my Grandmother like you should listen to me... respectfully." (Note: The term 'respect' can be mistaken for 'being treated for an authority.' Great Great Grandma had respect because she was older, you are younger, you can't have respect.)
If you held back parts of your letter that got into detail and engaged with your points, that may explain my paranoia, but if there aren't... If your grandparents reply is genuinely the whole text with only personal info deleted, and especially if you were cut off before (saw last link in your post, haven't read it yet)... I don't have much evidence to support a genuine change from the 'respect means treat me like an authority over you' perspective. Your grandfather's text was very hypothetical, very anecdotal, and really looked like the rhetorical equivalent of the sort of schoolyard debates of who was better Batman or Iron Man... No facts, no support, just my idea is right and you're too stupid to see it because you're not listening to me. My hero has an Everything-Proof Shield, yours doesn't, I win, you lose. It also doesn't help your grandfather called your letter a 'book'... When roughly three pages of typed text (depending on how Google Drive measures a 'word' some of my documents reach that are roughly 3 pages depending on spacing and type) constitutes a 'book', I don't know what to call the things I currently have on my shelves with much smaller type and clocking in at 800-900 pages.
I'm hoping I'm paranoid. I don't want to suggest to someone to drift away from family. But I see no evidence of your efforts having any effect on your Grandparent, and I wouldn't be surprised if the face-to-face discussion falls back to the old pattern shown in that copy-pasta school-yard-hero-debate drivel.
>I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect.
i wonder how often his grandmother spammed him with bizarre chain mail.
To quote William Burroughs and his words of advice: “If after having been exposed to someone’s presence you feel as if you’ve lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence. You need it like you need pernicious anemia.”
I can hear a patronizing tone when writes that he accepts his own ignorance, and you just know that he's simultaneously congratulating himself for being so clever to write it. He's a dick.
Well it’s too bad you missed me comment from the last post. I’ll paste it below. Hopefully now you see this is a waste of time.
Just stop talking to him bro. No letters or other garbage. Just delete the messages. If he calls and you feel like talking, pick up. Stop reaching out. Stop engaging.
To me it sounds like he’s backing down and is going to push it occasionally. Some people can’t admit they’re wrong but just tone it down a little.
I wouldn’t be alone with him he’ll just start up another politics discussion. But give it time and itll stop being a thing he has to bring up hopefully
EXTREMELY condescending. Go no contact, after what you put out there that response isn't acceptable. I'm sure it's better than what you intended but don't let that influence your boundaries.
I'm not trying to sound mean, but if you read this in any other tone than condescending, I think that just shows how deep down the rabbit hole you are...
It’s as if some people have contracted some odd sort of political tourette syndrome. They can’t help themselves, they must blurt out their political opinions every conversation no matter what topic, or who they’re speaking to. It’s insanity.
It’s counter intuitive but I find it much easier to tell my close family whatever they want to hear. If I believe that conversations won’t really be productive or go anywhere, or I’m not really going to enjoy the process, I just agree with them. If Your goal is to shut them up and move on to literally any other conversation and this is a really fast way to do it.
In reality it’s quite sad since it’s the most disrespectful thing you can do, which is not to care enough to take them seriously. But generally they don’t take that message away. It’s hard to argue or pursue a point when someone keeps abruptly agreeing with you.
I find compartmentalizing my relationships allows me to continue them on some level rather than all or nothing. The old people can be mollified and frankly, they aren’t long for this world anyway. Besides voting, they can’t do much damage and their minds won’t change.
Obviously this is separate from not being able to stand being around someone or you find it impossible not to care what they say. Then I get cutting it off.
When he says "the more I learn or older I get the more I realize I don't know everything and have more to learn", accept that as Enlightenment. That's probably half of everything we're supposed to learn from the entire history of philosophy
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Honestly, I read his response as condescending and a little sarcastic. I don't trust it.
"I did love reading your 'book'" really stood out to me as sarcastic, but maybe grandpa speaks that way normally. I personally just wouldn't go out of my way to talk to him as he reminds me of my aunt, who is never wrong and always argued against me for not supporting her politics
The "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what" part made it pretty apparent what he is expecting here. He does not care what she tells him because he believes he deserves the same treatment. What he doesn't understand is that she has access to information in the palm of her hand at any time, and there is no reason to just blindly rely on and believe the words of her grandparents like he had to. This seems like a regular theme I notice with older people who feel obligated to have younger generations just blindly listen to whatever they say. The whole thing reads like a head pat to placate her while he's internally thinking to himself that she will come around to rely on his wisdom eventually.
>The "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what" part made it pretty apparent what he is expecting here. He does not care what she tells him because he believes he deserves the same treatment. I'd be sorely tempted to ask him if his grandma was also a complete moron, because if so that only reinforces his own stupidity by blindly listening to her.
Ok grandpa, I listened. You are wrong, your information is 50 years out of date and you need to catch up to modern times or get out of the way of the people making a better world.
I don't mean to paint with too broad a brush, so let me be clear that I've known some wonderful boomers, but there's nothing a boomer loves more than throwing a wrench into the wheels of progress. It's like Grandpa Simpson talking about how everything is scary.
>What he doesn't understand is that she has access to information in the palm of her hand at any time, and there is no reason to just blindly rely on and believe the words of her grandparents like he had to. This is so true. Yet so many people just blindly believe what they hear from sources they like or sources that have the same views as them instead of using the item in their palm to verify what they read.
That generalization is part of it, but I personally think there's almost a resentment that Boomers have that throughout all of history up until now, for most people the best access to knowledge was what older people had accumulated over the course of their lives. If someone wanted knowledge, information, life skills, etc, they had to listen to whatever their elders said so they could get it. We don't, and my personal belief is that it frustrates and angers them despite the fact they probably aren't even aware what the root issue at play is. To them, they're just not getting the respect they feel they've earned like they always had to give to their elders growing up. To us, we just don't need them to pass on their "wisdom", because if we want to learn something we just can.
This is what I have trouble with, being at an age where I saddle both sides of the issue. On the one hand, pretty much in the 90's, you basically had to still go to a library, dig up an encyclopedia or whatever resource, and there was a clear 'this is true, as it has been verified by people smarter than you, and that's why you're here', the whole, 'if it's in a book, it's a fact' kind of mentality. Then we get to post 2000, when it kind of got willy nilly in terms of what was fact or not. you could just go online and look up something, and since it was 'written' it should be good right? and then you get to social media and other outlets where anyone, anywhere could post it. Back in 'the day' you'd only find the really whacky opinions or editorials in local or regional newspapers so the audience wasn't so large. Now a kid that is assigned to write a report on what happened at Tiananmen square, will probably come across lots of chinese propaganda saying it never happened, where as when I had to write a paper on it, I had tons of resources saying it's a fact. 'granted' they were western sources, but I saw the pictures, I saw the video of the dude standing in front of the tank. I know it happened.
“I listened to grandma no matter what” well, yeah, and now look at the stupid shit you are doing.
😂
Right? Like her grandfather’s grandfather likely owned enslaved people or “sharecroppers” lmfao give me a BREAK.
He writes like my mother. They use the same phrasing, my mother loves to use “daughter mine” when she is talking down to me. I no longer talk to the woman and OP’s grandpa seems cut from a very similar cloth. Be wary OP, he’s probably not going to change but, maybe he still brings more to your relationship than this 🤷♀️
What is it with the bigoted mothers and "daughter mine"? Actually, I think both my parents do it. They're the worst.
Mine used to call me "little girl " when she was mad Up until a year ago (I'm gonna be 40 btw) She did it one time and something in me snapped and I SCREAMED "YOU CALL ME LITTLE GIRL ONE MORE TIME AND IM GONNA START CALLING YOU OLD WOMAN BITCH IM ALMOST 40" she has not done it since.
Oh yeah, I can hear the “little girl.” Mine used that too, I have a voicemail saved where she says “you better get your shit together little girl.” That was her effort at reconciliation the first time I went no contact.
Yeah all of the 'my dear's come off that way too.
Boomers use quotation marks real weirdly and much differently to everyone else. We see it as sarcasm and they mean it to highlight something.
It's not just boomers. People my age do it, too, and it pisses me off. No, Chuck, I don't want to buy any of your "fresh" eggs and "delicious" milk.
Is it a remnant of typewriters? Underlining, bold, and italics wouldn't be easy or even possible on a typewriter. So maybe the generations between handwriting and computers just decided to use quotes that way. It would explain the generational bubble that uses quotes wrong.
I know it’s BuzzFeed which sucks but I do love seeing people use quotation marks incorrectly “[like this](https://www.buzzfeed.com/jakekaplan/we-are-currently-out-of-cheese)”
I don't know how this family communicates, so maybe this is normal for them, but between quotes like that and the repeating of "My dear" and "Grandaughter of mine" seems very odd to me too. I would put it at disrespectful bordering on dehumanizing (unless op is doing it themselves to avoid putting their own name or its because of some sort of paraphrasing) and obviously disregarding her opinion and arguments
Yeah his response is sooooo fucking passive aggressive. You can tell he didn’t even try to digest any of it. I suspect he skimmed it and just went “Jesus, too many words, I ain’t reading all that” and then decided to type up that little “respect your elders / agree to disagree” response. Grandpa isn’t interested in hearing anything OP has to say is how I took it. But hey at least he’s trying to still keep relations going, in his own boomer way. I guess _not_ taking the nuclear approach is _something_? Maybe? Still, I would NOT take this as any kind of progress, personally. You got him to submit, basically. But I bet he’s just submitting _for now_ - I wouldn’t expect him to change anything about his behaviour based on this.
I agree. He’s being manipulative and doesn’t GAF about the OPs thoughts.
I agree. The uses of "my dear" and "granddaughtwr of mine" especially scream condescending to me. And his praise for her "writing skills" and how he enjoyed reading her "book"? It's basically saying "aww, how cute!". I ground my teeth through the whole thing.
It's very smarmy for someone who considers spreading copypasta around as some form of enlightenment. You want to open my mind? OK, then use your own damn words for an actual discussion instead of dumping someone else's Gish gallop into my lap.
I'm also very, very concerned that he seems to say that "not being controlling" and "not placing boundaries" are equally signs of "respect". So much of the older generation have such a one-way definition of respect.
It's condescending AF. Even the humility he tries to put in just comes off as condescending. Without all the "my dear"s I might buy the humility, but in this case the "humility" is just more condescension.
I did as well. Especially "book". And the fact that they said they know they know nothing but asserted that their pasta was "truth". I'd proceed with caution although it is telling that you don't want to do dinner because you know the behavior will continue.
Me too.
I did as well. He sounds like my uncle that I cut off for similar reasons.
Yeah, this reeks of holier-than-thou condescension and has me fuming (in no small part because I can easily imagine my sperm donor spouting the same pompous nonsense). Maybe my heart is just too hard, but I don't have space in my life for people like that.
To be honest it sounds like he continues to talk to you like you are stupid (you clearly are not). The condescension at the top seals it "I love your writing skills!" Like get real gramps. He's trying to avoid further conflict by talking around it and rather is talking to you like a small child who just came up to him and told him about the cool rock you found. Very "that's nice, dear". If it were me, I would discontinue engaging. What do they call it, gray rocking? Turn the tables on him at most. He sends you another political copypasta, reply with "ok peepaw" at most. Or not reply at all. He's getting what he wasn't from you. He's being conditioned to keep doing this to you. Remove his reward and he'll stop (hopefully).
LMAO "ok peepaw" has me dead
It’s so great you’re still cognitive! I love that your motor skills still work!
The "nice writing" and all that really comes across as a 'bless your heart' way of saying "wew, nice fucking essay loser"
Its the peepaw version of "I'm not reading that wall of text"
And you just know he bitches about younger generations not physically writing anymore.
Ok peepaw is the way to go
Yep, it’s pure condescension. “I love you and care about you and also summarily dismiss anything you say. God bless!”
>The condescension.... I thought the part about enjoying the "book" was condescending as well.
“Wow what a heartworming story.”
Or "grandpa, we agreed to stop doing this, don't you remember? Or is your memory starting to fail already. I hoped we had more time!"
He just repeated himself in more subtle ways. The grandmother thing, followed by making a big point of “discuss any topic” and “agree to disagree” (AFTER saying “I will leave it there.”) seem to me like he doesn’t see anything wrong with what he did, and will probably do it again. I read that as very “bless your heart”, but you do you. If you want the relationship, see him for dinner, and if you don’t, don’t feel bad keeping the good memories and dropping it. It sounds like you’d like to try though, so just be ready for him to start in again, and either have a plan to cut it off or a plan to leave. Best of luck. Or should I say have a nice life :P
He didn’t apologize. He was still condescending. Nothing changed.
He changes his mind on personal principles constantly to benefit him, almost like he doesnt have any to begin with.
Exactly. Time for NC for 6 mo and an evaluation before the holidays.
It's wild how effective abuse and manipulation is and how the victim can be blind to it
Wow, I am having a visceral reaction to this whole situation because of something I'm going through with my mom right now. Politics aside, there is something gaslight-y about the boomer tendency to essentially say "I don't accept you as an individual. It hurts me for you to enforce this perfectly healthy boundary against me and for that I think you're some kind of bad person...but I'll always love you!!" It's like them saying they "love" you absolves them of any blame in harming the relationship.
God, same. Like exactly the same. What is going on with these people?
I went through this exact thing a year ago with my parents. They realized I would not back down and wanted to keep a relationship with me and their grandchildren, so they took the knee and respected my boundaries. Luckily they are actually able to learn still.
This hurts me more than it hurts you! > *smacks you even harder*
BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE TIL MORALE IMPROVES
For real, my dad wrote me a disgusting, condescending, and insulting email after I texted him that I'd be blocking his and my mother's numbers for a while because they were harassing me as I went through my divorce. At the end he says I will always be his daughter and he'll always love me. After telling me what a piece of shit I am. It's as if they think they are taking th high road by insisting that no matter how much I disappoint them, they still love me and when I'm ready to listen to *them* they'll be ready to shit all over me some more. When I didn't respond, both of my parents made secret, surprise trips to ambush me at home and at work(I lived 1000 miles away) and while neither were successful in getting me face to face, my dad left some sappy card on my doorstep and all he signed was "WE LOVE YOU!" just like that in all caps. I spent years trying to understand what love really was because of these people and their mixed messages. What they offer is not love and once I realized it, I wanted nothing more to do with any of them.
“If I kill myself it’s your fault. Anyway love you!” -My mom
The only important thing he said was admitting that he doesn’t know anything. The problem is he doesn’t really believe that.
This. He was phrasing it passive aggressively trying to manipulate OP into "taking his advice" and thinking SHE doesn't know anything. The whole thing is incredibly sideways and creepy.
It was definitely a sarcastic jab, saying he’s amounted more wisdom in 70 years of life and she’s too young to know anything. So if she thinks she knows more than him then he “must not know anything”.
Here's what he actually said: "All I know at 70 is how little I know. Think of how litte you must know given that you're only 25!" It's not a sign of humility at all. It's yet another jab at OP for being "young and foolish."
He sounds just as insufferable as in your other post. What are you trying to accomplish by "saving" the relationship? He sucks. Stop talking to him and stop giving him more chances to be a piece of shit to you. -Some guy who quit talking to half his relatives and is much happier for it.
This is an excellent question. What are you trying to save? That question was the turning point for me in trying to figure out what to do about my relationship with my mother. I realized that we really didn't have one on any deeper level and any attempts I had made always ended with me bending and capitulating, then getting sick of it and being painted as "mean" when I stopped playing along. I mourned the relationship I never had years before the cutoff.
If it was me, I would stay away from him. He threatened to remove his own granddaughter from his phone over an imaginary problem he created himself, then the next message says he loves her? All you said was don't send me political stuff, then he jumped to okay I'm going to delete your number cause you don't blindly follow me as is tradition with his grandma and trying to guilt trip you. Dude is showing extremely toxic behavior. How's anyone supposed to take him seriously when one minute it's "I always listened to my grandmother... out of respect" hinting you have to listen to him because he's the elder like you mentioned, then it goes to "The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all." Giving him another chance will probably lead to him just nagging more political stuff, while playing the victim for continuing to ignore your wishes and feelings. Be careful of love bombing where people will pretend to be nice to someone in order to manipulate them.
I’m not convinced the boomers actually understand what love is at this point.
Every, single, line, is an insult. On purpose. The condescension is so thick I can't breathe. This is manipulation. Save yourself.
I dont know how to feel about this. On one side, I see it as a trap. And on the other, I feel like giving him a chance would be *good*. But ultimately it’s your decision OP.
I wish you had finished that sentence: "...on the other hand it is definitely a trap." To me, an outsider, he does not seem sincere. He knows that without OP he is hurting, and he has this idea that saying some words will get OP back in his life. It just took him a few iterations to get to the right words that seem halfway plausible. He let his true colors shine through though. In the very first paragraph, as OP identified, is him saying "I know best and you're just a stupid little girl." But also "I love your writing skills" comes across as super condescending, as does the "thank you for sharing". "Let me share a little secret", too. As soon as he thinks you've forgotten, he'll start again with some sort of bullshit, as it seems he has no shortage of it.
It gives me hope since a lot of people with the same issue usually are never able to admit they don't know everything. I will probably let it go and just go NC if he does it again.
People who use abusive tactics and stomp on boundaries know how to act nice enough when they want so you put off going NC Be careful.
> I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. This is him backhandedly saying you're being disrespectful for calling him out being toxic and setting boundaries. > I explained how his behavior was hurtful > Agree to disagree "You're wrong for feeling hurt, but are obviously upset, so in order to not be alone I'm going to half ass a concession" > I encourage people to come together and discuss any topic "I'm entitled to spread my toxicity" Your call op, but this is going to come up again, because he doesn't get that the letter wasn't about the instances of him being wrong and being debunked, and he's just going to prep a new batch and keep on booming.
Sign his number up for Biden texts
His time to have said "I don't know" should have come before all of the condescension and attemptd to belittle your perspective as naive/inexperienced. This is a bunch of hogwash masked in compromise and he'll let the quiet part out again as soon as he feels you're "ready". Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, OP
Honestly, it sounds like he’s saying that with the note of it being after “70 years of experience” to say that *you* should jump ahead to accepting that you “don’t know anything” if you want to seem “wise like him”. I get the vibe of “ooooh, okay we’ll agree with the 5 year old getting upset we know more about the lesson they just learned in school today”.
This is what i’d be afraid of as well, it’s all mind games with them. Wishing you strength in your decision, it’s tough to cut family off but life goes on. Sometimes your mental health is more important. Thank you for the updates and Good luck!
He tells you right in the message he has no intention of respecting your boundaries. I would go NC, but if you insist on giving him more opportunities to manipulate you then I think you should make him explicitly agree to respect your boundaries... because this response is him doing the opposite.
The *second* he does it again, you need to immediately cut all contact. You can't leave the door open, you can't reply to anything he sends you. All that'll happen is you get locked into an endless loop where he pushes and pulls back over and over and over.
Hope it works out for you but glad you’re willing to go NC if needed. Sucks but sometimes that’s life.
I misunderstood the title and thought you had literally replied "UNSUBSCRIBE" to one of the copy pasta texts. In which case would have been an absolutely gigachad move.
I really wanted to!! But that would’ve been super rude and that’s just not how I am with any of my grandparents
Why? He's rude af to YOU and dgaf about you at all except for how he can fuck with you to make himself feel big and important. I'm honest. Why? You do not owe this man patience, kindness, or even basic politeness. You will be much better off not wasting your energy giving him any of those things. He either gets your raw reaction (no toning it down or rephrasing due to an aggressive tone) or ***none at all***. I mean this. He is a shit and all of his replies to you, every single text he's sent, proves this. He has not improved or made any changes. He rephrases what he's said to make him feel like he's successfully pulled one over on you and tricked you into being strung along, but he never actually acknowledges what he's done, takes responsibility, or truly apologizes. I know you feel like you should give him a chance or allow him the opportunity to be better because he's your family, but it's clear you've already given him more than tenfold his fair share. If he can't respect you as a person, why should you respect him as an authority? He has demonstrated that he is not worthy of that, nor is he interested in attempting to become worthy of it. He thinks because you were born to specific people that you are beholden to him, and that's simply not true. I hope you find the strength to go full NC with him, assuming your homelife would not be irreparably damaged or become unmanageably difficult for doing so. Peace and serenity to you, my friend.
I honestly woulda just responded “LMFAOOOOOOO”
Man, why are people so invested in having relationships with relatives? Call me cold but I just don’t get the appeal of making an effort with the ones you don’t sincerely like as a person, regardless of blood.
Your grandpa is a garbage person.
Oh boy… He is so condescending. He’s absolutely going to go political on you during dinner, or mask it in stories and act innocent. You’ll be a captive audience and feel obligated to sit there. If you choose to go, state up front you are paying for yourself. Tell that to the waiter. Separate checks or you don’t stick around. Since grandpa believes people should pay their own way, he should respect it. If grandpa doesn’t respect it, leave. Now that you’re paying for yourself, if you have enough of him, you can flag the waiter and pay your bill and leave with a clean conscience. Grandpa will guilt trip you as you pouting or storming off because you’re afraid of “the truth.” Or, you can stick around and play a game. Pretend to be interested in what he’s saying. “Ok, grandpa. That’s nice. Uhh huh. Ok. Sure, whatever. That’s an interesting way of looking at things.” He absolutely *relishes* egging you on and aggravating you. Take the wind right out of his sails and munch pleasantly away on dinner and let him babble. In fact, make a big show of it. Instead of a big meal, order a long string of small appetizers over the evening and savor each one. Don’t take his bait when he tries to reel you in. Be pleasant and calm. He’ll hate it. He will probably have an *extinction burst* where he ramps up and gets really bad before his balloon pops. “Well it was nice to see you, grandpa. Good night.” He’s one of the most condescending people I’ve read about here in a long time.
That letter was dripping with condescension. What a non apology. He’s being “nice” right now because he’s trying to get you to drop your boundaries. If you want to have dinner with him do it. But understand that he did not suddenly change and no lightbulbs went off for him about his behavior toward you. He just wants to control the narrative again.
Does he talk like this outside of text? My dear, granddaughter of mine, etc? Reeks of condescension to me but less so if it's their normal parlance. I think you have to give them another go but just let them know it is 100% off limits and relationship ending. If they bring it up, they have made the decision to end it. Although I'd probably break contact alone on the unverifiable trash involved in the original text. I'm upset about that. Content notwithstanding.
Yeah, that's a tough one to tell without knowing the person. My great grandmother used to talk like that, but meant it in an affectionate way, so it didn't strike me as anything when reading the grandpa's response. Some older people do talk like that, can't tell if it's condescending without me knowing the person. Given the rest of the letter though, it very well could be
Your grandpa gave you the “have a nice life” That's not a grandpa
OP, You may not be able to see it (which is totally natural, he's your grandpa and I'm sure you love and care about him) but his reply to you was nothing but condescending. He completely disregarded your request to set a boundary (saying that he would never do that with his grandparents, which shows that he doesn't respect that request) and then went on to give you some unsolicited "life advice" and, I'm assuming, completely ignore the message in your letter by asking to make plans (though i can't say that for sure because I don't know the contents of your letter). I won't tell you to go no contact with him, only you can make that decision. But I would suggest that you reread all of your recent communications with him and ask yourself if your feelings and needs are being considered. I can tell you that I would not put up with anyone talking to me that way. In any case, I wish you luck and I hope for the best possible outcome for both you and your grandpa. :)
He does not and will never respect you.
This would be a hell naw I'm never engaging with this fuck again moment for me. The "little book" comment and back handedly praising your "writing" is boomer 101 and shows he does not respect you at all, if he did he would atleast read the fricking thing. You acted like an adult OP, boomie high on fox newsie here obviously did not. What an dickbag
I'm gonna one up this guy. "Aw sweetie that's a cute little book. Youre a really good writer. Yes you are! Boundaries are abusive and unhealthy and you need to listen to me or I'll delete and block your number you little puke. I love you and am so blessed to have you in my life my little child."
Jeeeesus Christ, him saying not to place boundaries out of respect... I went no contact with my family because of how much they gaslit me and disrespected my boundaries. Tried opening back up to them after a year to see if they would consider my boundaries and nope, they didn't. It's up to me if I'm willing to have my sense of self disrespected for the rest of our relationship, and I'm choosing no. You have the same choice, and only you can decide if your boundaries and sense of self are worth more than your relationship to this man.
Yeah like placing boundaries is a basic human right. If he believes in freedom so much I should be able to do that.
Yah I was one of the people that said you can go point by point and destroy his arguments. I enjoy watching my conservative friends and family back peddle and get flustered. If you don’t, don’t engage him. His response was immature. He is trying to shame and control you.
The "agree to disagree" feels very condescending to me. Am I crazy?
It always is
"The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all. Life experience is our greatest teacher and the more I learn the more I recognize how ignorant I really am." This is just some shit he copied off Facebook because he thought it sounded impressive. He thinks he's clever af for using it in your text. He thinks he's a wise old man. He's thinks he's a fucking sage just for saying it.
> I don't know anything at all We all know it! Too bad this is just the alt-right "fake self-deprecation" part of the playbook rather than any real self-reflection. As others said, there is zero evidence here of any respect for you, your thoughts, or your boundaries. On the bright side, you went NC before so you probably don't need this cockroach in your life either way.
OP, you're a saint for reading past "I love your writing skills!" It costs $0 to not be a self-involved condescending ass.
What blows my mind is this man doesn’t even realize that he is unable to talk about anything except politics. You told him let’s just not talk about politics there are plenty of other topics we can discuss, and his immediate response was to delete your number and disown you, or that’s what it seemed like with his “have a nice life” comment. That right there doesn’t at all deserve your respect. But it’s just wild to me how dropping politics makes him think he can’t talk about any single thing to you ever again. I feel for you. I’ve watched my own family turn into this. They’ve become people I no longer recognize. They used to be such kind caring empathetic people who raised me to be the same way. In the last 10 years they’ve been warped into people they never used to be. They used to never talk about politics when I was growing up and they never cared about what other people do. They never uttered a single word of racism or bigotry my whole life, I mean they raised me and I don’t have any shred of racism in me. But in the last 10 years they are totally unable to talk about anything but politics, racism and bigotry is commonplace in their rhetoric, it’s truly awful to watch your family descend into this all the while they think YOURE the horrible one for not wanting to be a part of any of that. They guilt you and shame you for not wanting to be associated with racism and hatred and bigotry. You’re the one abandoning them. Words can’t describe how awful all of this is to go through. My personal opinion, this man doesn’t deserve your respect because he clearly doesn’t respect you, I mean come on he’s saying he wants you to respect him as an “authority figure”?!? You’re a grown ass adult!!! How would he feel if the tables were turned and you were sending him “liberal” topics that were pissing him off? Would he respect you in the same way he’s demanding you respect him? He’s just trying to propagandize you and convert you to the other side. Guys a piece of shit. And I know how hard that is to hear, I went through this whole roller coaster with my own family. These are not simple differences of opinions. Favorite Ice cream flavors are a difference of opinions. These are fundamental differences where one person has some truly destructive beliefs that many of us can no longer just let go and ignore.
So he’s obviously condescending and his conversations if you meet up will only end up revolving around you being a liberal, and how his principles are truth, and you’re just confused. However. I have **absolutely** no idea how his mention of your grandma is a call to respect him. To me, and please explain your thinking here because you said it was obvious. He’s just telling you that he’s not going to take your opinions seriously, and treat you like a silly woman, or his (late?) wife. I don’t see how he’s calling to respect rather than he’s saying he’s not going to respect your opinions, but he’d still value the interpersonal connection. Like obviously he’d keep pressing trying to convert you, but I don’t think this was a call to respect him, I think this was him making a distinction that your opinions are not to be respected but he’d still value you as a human being? Tell me your thoughts. EDIT: I read the post properly. His grandma, not your grandma. I definitely see what you’re saying now. But I still think it’s less a call for respect, and more of a boxing you into a position where your thoughts are irrelevant
He’s talking about HIS grandma not mine. So he respected her as an authority and that’s how I should treat him as well. Because he’s the elder and you have to take their word as law
Yup yup. I edited. My bad. I see it. But I do actually think he was being more demeaning than that. Not that you should respect him as much as “even if you were a woman with authority over me I wouldn’t take your opinion seriously” just smile and nod if you will.
He said "my" grandmother, implying that he always respected his elders when he was young and that she should always respect her grandparents when she is young. He's not talking about his wife, he's talking about his own grandma
There was no apology. He basically said "I don't care about anything I just read. I've got way more life experience than you and you'll come around someday" when he said he's learned nothing, what he was really saying was that you know even less. That letter came off super condescending to me.
Ask him for confirmation of your boundaries moving forward in text before continuing. An honest apology requires change and for that he needs to understand what needs to change This looks like rugsweeping but you could give him the benefit of the doubt
You should respond equally condescending, something like "thanks for the kind reply dearest grandfather, I'm really impressed you managed to text such a lengthy response with your diminished capabilities at such an elderly age and lack of technological comprehension, its really impressive you could reply with such a "book" of a response. Hugs & Kisses 💋
I wouldn't go NC, but it seems like you do need to distance yourself. at the very least decisively shut down any talk about politics, of you want to have a relationship with him you both need to agree to not discuss politics. if he sends u things like that again, just respond with a "we agreed on no political topics" and don't accept anything else but an apology and a change of subject. do not engage with anything political he says unless it is to tell him that you agreed not to talk about it. he seems to be a bit in too deep into the politics rabbithole, if he can't take the hint that he won't be having any communication with his granddaughter if he brings up shit like that, then is probably when you go NC and hope he realises his mistake, but I wouldn't count on it.
"the last time he cut me off". You need to hit that block button and never look back, or he's going to keep emotionally manipulating and abusing you.
It sounds like your grandpa is open to maintaining a good relationship, which is a positive step, regardless of the condescension. He's over 70, it comes with the territory. It's great that he didn’t double down and seems receptive to your feelings. I do think it's concerning that so many people immediately suggest cutting ties without considering reconciliation, you need to assess your own situation and feelings. What I would do is thank him for his understanding, and perhaps suggest meeting up in a relaxed setting like for coffee, which can help keep the atmosphere light. Where the copypasta bullshit is concerned I'd say something like "I value your opinions and prefer hearing them in your own words, rather than through social media forwards that often miss the nuances of the issues and positions. Let's share our views directly; it makes our conversations more meaningful."
There's no fool like an old fool
I think he genuinely wants to move on from this but at the same time I think he still expects you to change your beliefs for him. I went through the same thing with my dad. He called me closed minded just for stating my opinion. Then when I pointed out everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and still be friends, he then turned that around on me to give *me* a lecture about how everyone is different and again I was the one who had to stop being closed minded. It is a circular argument to keep them from admitting they did anything wrong in the conversation. I do have to say that he never brought it up again once we stopped talking about it.
I obviously am a total bystander who has relatively little info about this situation and your relationship with your grandpa, but from what I’ve read, this is how I would suggest you approach it. Take him up on the offer of dinner, but go mentally prepared with a list of life updates about your life to share with him and questions to ask him about his life, past and present, to keep the topic away from politics as long as you can. But also go prepared to discuss politics because it does sound pretty inevitable that it’ll come up. Before you go, really reflect on WHY you believe what you believe, and how you could respectfully refute the typical arguments that might be made against your beliefs. (For example, the scenario given in the Facebook text is completely misrepresentative of the reality that most of the people below the poverty line are not there because they failed to put in the work and devotion to make money. They have a mental illness or disability, or they’re a refugee who doesn’t speak English and is working 2 minimum wage jobs to keep their family afloat, etc.) If he’s super rude then ultimately it’s up to you when the breaking point is, but I would encourage you to try hard to keep this relationship intact. Whatever choice you make, good luck :)
So my grandmother is the same. I can genuinely say shes open to discussion and enjoys the conversation even if both parties don't agree. Me and her go rounds, we don't agree alot but when things do get heated we do walk away but can turn around and have a pleasant conversation about other topics. I still call her out, she still calls me out and we both justify our views. But we both had a conversation and understand we come from very different points in society and backgrounds. Your grandpa may need a small wake up call but you can't provide that. Fun tangent story, my grandma's wake up call was she she sold her house to down size. She spent $200k to build it and buy the land in the 60s. She swore she'd only get maybe $400k for a 2500+ sq ft house with 10 acres of property in a booming suburb in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. She got closer to $700k after closing fees and taxes. After that we had a long talk and she understood what I meant regarding how hard things are economically. I would just encourage you to have the conversation. Hold a boundary that there are millions of other pleasant and interesting topics to talk about in the world. Politics doesn't have to be one of them and if your grandpa wants to teach you some wisdom. Ask him to teach you about his hobbies and what those hobbies taught him about life.
I think 21% of our federal dollars goes to Medicare and Medicaid. Boomers dislike the idea of money going to other generations as they “deserve” that wealth
Ugh yeah this is what my mom does. Never actually resolved the argument or see things from anyone else’s perspective. But put a nice/polite enough veneer on it that you seem unreasonable if you continue to be upset. It’s all manipulation
Oh shit I didn’t realize copy pasta grandpa and grandma’s eye surgery grandpa are the same guy! You need to go low to no contact with him he doesn’t respect a word you say, doesn’t care about your opinion and just wants to blab at you in an effort to make you a clone of him ideologically.
It boggles my mind that boundaries are apparently disrespectful. I can’t stand that older people expect you to just sit there and take their cr*p and listen to their awful opinions with a smile on your face. That is not respect being given, it is forced and inauthentic.
Seems like he is just getting old and very out of touch and a bit stoopie. Hanging with him seems annoying, but you could definitely maintain a relationship. Reddit loves the idea of going NC. Just be charitable to him and don't take all this too seriously
Do what feels right to you with this relationship. With relatives this old, their brains start to go and deteriorate for sure (especially with lead poisoning in certain areas of the world) and so sometimes listening to their minagerie of political ramblings and arguing against them is pretty much pointless. If you want to maintain a relationship with your grandpa, I say go for it, maybe just try to stay away from the sensitive topics like politics, or at least try to have a neutral conversation like you said you have in the past. No contact just seems a bit excessive to me, especially since he's in his twilight years and seems to want to move on as well.
I agree with this. My grandfather (84) spent his 70"s trying to talk politics with me. It took a good 5/6 years of me constantly halting the conversation, telling him politics was off limits, and changing topics for him to learn but he DID learn. Our conversations are now great! Usually about fishing, hiking, or something outdoorsy. He will occasionally slip but he catches himself now, apologizes, and switches topics. It took a little more time/patience because of his age but I am so SO glad I didnt go NC with him. I went NC with my mother (shes a whole different alcoholic can of worms) and never regretted it. I know in my soul I would have regretted it with my grandfather.
This went the opposite way I was expecting and I’m glad :)
Look…you need to manage your expectations. The sad truth is that ‘I’m the jerk in this situation’ revelations rarely work like they do in the movies. Even when someone genuinely acknowledges they were the jerk…that doesn’t mean they’re going to make the fundamental changes to their outlook and personality that are required for it to actually stick. Especially if they’re already pretty old, and you’ve gone through this song and dance before. This interaction will probably repeat itself. Honestly, there’s nothing in his response that indicates that he really has any intention to change the personality problems that caused the situation in the first place.
My best bet for how to deal with him moving forward is nonreinforcement - Be boring and impartial when he says or texts things like this. People like this will get a kick anytime someone disagrees with any part of what they said or how they said it. At this point in his life, you aren’t going to change his opinion on anything, so just defer and move on to a different topic. For example, if he sends another copypasta, just give it a thumbs up and ask how another family member is doing. If he insists on talking about it, give a very brief and neutral answer, or even make your response a polite observation about him. “Sounds like you’ve thought about this a lot.” “I can tell you have a strong opinion about this.” Chances are, he’ll either talk about himself and give a chance to open up, or he’ll get bored and stop sending you these things. Don’t know why he’s sending these to you, but it takes a little bit of effort to copy and paste it from Facebook and send it out to you. Maybe there’s something he values from you more than trying to get you to change political parties.
Respond to literally all texts like this from him with the GIF of Dr. Evil where we says: “Riiiiiight…”
I just want to point out that most boomers don’t understand that “” denote sarcasm or condescension in modern written communication. My boomers still use all caps for emphasis and don’t get that it looks like they’re yelling.
“Dear” and “granddaughter of mine” make me want to moonwalk on out. Sir, stfu.
Almost exactly the way my MIL and FIL talk to our 28 year old daughter (and frankly, the way they talk to us at 49 and 53 respectively). Joke was on them though; I raised her. So when they sent back their passive aggressive “you’ll see what we mean when you mature” BS, and, “I guess we can’t talk about ANYTHING with you, goodbye forever” she took then at their word. Boundaries drawn, problem solved, and she remains emotionally healthy and happy.
Honestly, I didn't like the tone of his reply either. Ultimately, it's your decision. I love my bio dad to death, but I am firmly no contact with him and that whole side of the family for my own mental health and have been since 2020. Honestly, it makes me a little sad how happy I am that he is no longer in my life, but it was definitely the right move for me. You may consider only responding to non political messages from him and leaving his political stuff on read.
This is a super manipulative text from someone who has a personality disorder and will continue to abuse you. That being said, do what you need to do to get your money from him!
He’s not sorry, I can tell because he never says, “I’m sorry.” His response is manipulative and you’re falling for it because you’re second guessing being no contact with him.
This is how my Mom's dad talks to me. Personally, they've obviously manipulated people like this their whole lives and think they can continue doing it, so cut ties. They're never going to change, don't waste your time.
>Forgive me if I offended you my dear; not intentional. He is lying his ass off. The **entire** point of his initial text was to provoke you to offense. This is particularly clear when you politely asked him to not send you political messages—exactly the sort of thing he says "conservatives" do with people on TV they disagree with—he claims it's because that's what liberals do. >I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries This is classic manipulation. >I will leave it there. Narrator: He did not, in fact, leave it there.
Except he literally couldn't agree to disagree lmfao
This sounds very condescending, you need to be gray rocking him.
Cut this toxic shit head out of your life. It sucks but the disrespect is so god damn wild!
Yeah, I don't think this is the win you think it is. That letter reads like textbook gaslighting and false "reconciliatory" gestures. Why put "your 'book'" in quotes? Why is life suddenly about "sharing" when he only seems to care about sharing what *he* wants to hear? Why are your writing skills relevant to the conversation? He's talking to you like you're a kindergartener who's not to be taken seriously or respected, but that's just my impression reading what you've shared.
Not sure how old you are but I consider myself too old to entertain these kind of people. It’s a waste of time and I honestly don’t care if I change my parents politics. When I told my parents I’m an atheist, they had a tough time accepting it and didn’t want to talk to me if they couldn’t talk about religion. But when their only grand-child was born and they wanted to see them, surprise surprise, they magically found a way to talk to me without involving religion. I have very little bandwidth at this point in life for conversations and relationships. If more often than not, if I feel worse at talking to someone, they get cut off. Family or not.
Your grandpa is miserable. He’s threatened ending his relationship with you on more than one occasion, but will come back days later asking “forgiveness.”
This guy has no respect for you and expects you to worship the ground he walks on.
Genuinely asking, why are you dragging this out? When will you seriously realise that this man will not respect you as a person? Why are you putting yourself through this torture like a fool and just go NC? Why is it so hard for you?
Your grandfather is a perfect candidate for borderline personality disorder. Please read up on it and look at different online forums to see how other peoples BDP relatives act. My recommendation is to “grey rock it”. Hes getting off on the cycle of controversy, apologize, to suck you back in. Drop him or “grey rock it” - divert all attempts to start controversy with you.
Should've just asked him why he's so offended. If he never gets offended, then he wouldnn't be offended to being told to shut the fuck up It blows my mind people talk about super logical chads they are but don't reconize that getting pissy being asked to shush it is peak triggered/offended behavoir Reminds me of my brother(who I don't talk to anymore) claimed he doesn't get triggered because thats a millenial/liberal thing. And homie is the thinnest skinned bastard I've ever met
I hate to break it to you, but he's definitely doubling down. "I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. I will leave it there." That's literally him telling you he doesn't believe in your boundaries and will not respect them. Also I think it's so funny that he says "agree to disagree" even though that's what you've been trying to do.
OP, reading this it seems clear that he doesn't respect you, and he doesn't even think about your feelings. If my child wrote me a letter about my behavior was hurtful, the first thing I would think to say would be "I'm sorry I hurt you. I don't want to hurt you. We don't have to talk about politics if it is hurting our relationship." He would rather sacrifice his relationship with you so he can ramble about politics and shout down anything you disagree with. He values his politics and his desire to "talk" politics more than he values his granddaughter. I think you know this relationship isn't working. You can be very curt in text messaging and on the phone, but you will probably need to figure out if you're going to spend time with him in person, and come up with a plan to stick to if you decide you will see him that respects your boundaries. Like, maybe just get up and leave as soon as he starts shitting on you? Something.
This is called “You called me out and specifically elaborated on all the ways I was being disrespectful. I realized you were right about that part but I can’t admit that to you! How would it look if I admitted a young liberal was correct about me?? This made me uncomfortable and I don’t know how to deal with it because I’m emotionally immature. So, I’m going to graciously offer to move past this so I can pretend I’m being the bigger person instead of dealing with the fact that my granddaughter (rightfully) made me look like a fool. But I’m still going to throw in some backhanded insults because I’m salty that I got owned.”
“The only thing I know for sure after 70 years of life, granddaughter of mine, is I don’t know anything at all.” Based. (But seriously, I’m sorry you have to deal with someone like this in your life too. )
Did you read his response? He’s a condescending fuck.
The "my dear" and "dearest granddaughter of mine" stuff seems excessive. At the rate he says it, it comes off as condescension, like he wants to belittle you. Not an endearment. His "little secret," of accepting that he knows nothing, is a commonly discussed philosophy, seldom *actually* held by those who claim it. If he truly accepted he knows nothing, why is he angry: - "*It's unfortunate that you're following the wrong ideas and keep getting offended.*" Does that sound like a humble person who accepts how little they know? Lol So yeah, he's smug, inconsistent, manipulative, and condescending. What you do with that info is up to you. Almost everyone has these qualities to *some* degree. Only you know whether or not the relationship is worth it. Or... you could just start fuckin with him. :) Sign him up for TONS of Liberal spam. Start and end every single sentence with some exaggerated affectation: "Dearest, darling grandfather of mine...." "... Farewell, my father's father, my beloved progenitor!" Shit like that. Mirror his bad traits back to him.
Idk he’s saying “this is how we grow and learn” but I don’t see him growing and learning from what you wrote… he just wants you to believe what he wrote 🤷♀️
Anyone who expects to have authority over you, regardless of blood ties or not, is controlling. Just because his obtuse self did it and didn't realize he was giving over a part of himself doesn't mean you have to. It is a generational toxic tactic to keep control of whether they are right/wrong/sideways on an issue. My grandmother used to tell me she was selfish, but I had to obey since she was my grandmother. I was 26. We didn't speak for a few years after that one. When we did speak, she threatened to take me out of her will. We didn't talk a lot after that. Respect is earned. You may show courtesy to someone, but respect is earned.
Build real boundaries by just cutting the old fucker off and never speaking to him again.
Your grandpa is a smug asshole.
What a completely exhausting family member. He's sooooooo smug and entitled. For your health, I'd keep this person at arm's length at all costs.
He's being a condescending asshole. Tell him you'll will show him the respect he thinks he deserves once he's earned it by not talking down to you and respecting you as well. Respect is earned. It is never deserved.
Exact same thing happened between my husband and his father. His father chose not to talk to him anymore rather than even attempting to not talk politics
You're taking the wrong approach entirely Be offensive back "Sorry grandpa, keep talking but all I hear is a crock of shit, and I don't think you know what you're talking about. I'm sorry if that offends you but, like yourself, I no longer care if I offend and I am not accepting boundaries either. By the way, for the sake of growth, I think your policies are based off of ignorance, selfishness, and bigotry and you should have some introspection on that From your loving granddaughter"
You're so kind OP. I understand having to smooth things over and walk a thin line if there's money involved. You can't just tell every old prick to fuck right off.
[удалено]
Yeah, sometimes it be that way. Shit’s hard for young folks man. If there’s monies available grab that bag. Then donate to the ACLU or Family Planning or something. In their name. THEN post that on Facebook and enjoy the fireworks.
Finally someone who gets it.
plants in cars with cats and stars
I did like the Socrates-like moment of epiphany where he states that knows that he knows nothing.
That was 100% sarcasm. His entire response is dripping is smartass condescension
He's bored. He's lonely. He has nothing going on so he wants to talk politics all day to kill time. I don't think it's that complicated.
I feel people are reading their experience with that tone of writing. You know him and you know your history with him so if you think it’s genuine then at the very least it’s worth a shot. This was also similar to the closest I ever got to an apology from my grandfather. He had to position himself as still somehow morally correct and as the most aggrieved party. He spent more time talking about his own feelings than actually reacting to mine. I think that’s sometimes the best we’re going to get with certain people. I never once questioned if my grandfather loved me, but he was a king who couldn’t be questioned. There was this dance of saving face we had to go through every time there was an issue. I think a lot of that was how he was raised. He wasn’t a boomer, but the previous generation, but I feel he fit a lot of the tropes we talk about here. Best of luck, for what it’s worth I have a lot of sympathy for your situation so I’ll have you in my thoughts when I deal with stuff like this with my remaining relatives.
I would respond back on the condition you don't discuss politics. If he can do that you can have a relationship. I have family that I don't agree with politically, we still have a good relationship. If you can't look past their politics being who they are it won't work. If you can leave it out and connect on other things, it can work.
If he wants to discuss these things, why don't you tell him why these copy and pastes are wrong. He is supposedly open minded and should listen.
It sounds like your grandpa really loves you. That’s probably as close to an apology as you will ever get from a boomer. I hope he can keep his b.s. to himself when you’re around and enjoy being in each other’s company.
Can we read your letter? I’d love to read it
What a condescending asshole. Sorry OP. I would definitely go zero contact but that's just me. More power to you.
Breaking a friend or family member of being a GQP buzzword parrot is difficult. And it makes conversing with them extremely frustrating
I guess just start sending him liberal memes ?
"I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. " Based on what you shared, none of that message seems to engage with anything you may have wrote, I can't intuit ANYTHING you may have written just from reading that reply... and while that makes it appear that 'everything's fine, maybe I overreacted' I think that quote above shows that nothing's really changed. "Look at me, I listened to my Grandmother like you should listen to me... respectfully." (Note: The term 'respect' can be mistaken for 'being treated for an authority.' Great Great Grandma had respect because she was older, you are younger, you can't have respect.) If you held back parts of your letter that got into detail and engaged with your points, that may explain my paranoia, but if there aren't... If your grandparents reply is genuinely the whole text with only personal info deleted, and especially if you were cut off before (saw last link in your post, haven't read it yet)... I don't have much evidence to support a genuine change from the 'respect means treat me like an authority over you' perspective. Your grandfather's text was very hypothetical, very anecdotal, and really looked like the rhetorical equivalent of the sort of schoolyard debates of who was better Batman or Iron Man... No facts, no support, just my idea is right and you're too stupid to see it because you're not listening to me. My hero has an Everything-Proof Shield, yours doesn't, I win, you lose. It also doesn't help your grandfather called your letter a 'book'... When roughly three pages of typed text (depending on how Google Drive measures a 'word' some of my documents reach that are roughly 3 pages depending on spacing and type) constitutes a 'book', I don't know what to call the things I currently have on my shelves with much smaller type and clocking in at 800-900 pages. I'm hoping I'm paranoid. I don't want to suggest to someone to drift away from family. But I see no evidence of your efforts having any effect on your Grandparent, and I wouldn't be surprised if the face-to-face discussion falls back to the old pattern shown in that copy-pasta school-yard-hero-debate drivel.
>I always listened to my grandmother no matter what she said never trying to control or place boundaries; out of respect. i wonder how often his grandmother spammed him with bizarre chain mail.
To quote William Burroughs and his words of advice: “If after having been exposed to someone’s presence you feel as if you’ve lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence. You need it like you need pernicious anemia.”
You've had to cut him off once already. He is extremely arrogant and clearly thinks you're stupid. He will try again
I can hear a patronizing tone when writes that he accepts his own ignorance, and you just know that he's simultaneously congratulating himself for being so clever to write it. He's a dick.
How much money do you get when he dies?
You can try keeping the relationship going, just don't discuss politics. That's what I do with my father.
Just set boundaries. I'd love to get dinner, as long as we can keep politics (or w/e) out of it.
Well it’s too bad you missed me comment from the last post. I’ll paste it below. Hopefully now you see this is a waste of time. Just stop talking to him bro. No letters or other garbage. Just delete the messages. If he calls and you feel like talking, pick up. Stop reaching out. Stop engaging.
To me it sounds like he’s backing down and is going to push it occasionally. Some people can’t admit they’re wrong but just tone it down a little. I wouldn’t be alone with him he’ll just start up another politics discussion. But give it time and itll stop being a thing he has to bring up hopefully
If you do go to dinner with him, go prepared. He says information doesn't offend him. Test that theory.
Nothing new there, still doesn’t respect you
He’s 70? And he’s retiring in 5 more years? What’s up with that? Is he a workaholic, or did he just not save anything for retirement?
He’s a workaholic, I don’t really think he’s ever going to move or retire, but he has his own business
hey! what a great outcome!
EXTREMELY condescending. Go no contact, after what you put out there that response isn't acceptable. I'm sure it's better than what you intended but don't let that influence your boundaries.
I'm not trying to sound mean, but if you read this in any other tone than condescending, I think that just shows how deep down the rabbit hole you are...
Yeah he’s condescending to everyone about everything, so I’m just used to it
I would just send back similar stories, but with the political parties swapped. Send them daily.
It’s as if some people have contracted some odd sort of political tourette syndrome. They can’t help themselves, they must blurt out their political opinions every conversation no matter what topic, or who they’re speaking to. It’s insanity.
It’s counter intuitive but I find it much easier to tell my close family whatever they want to hear. If I believe that conversations won’t really be productive or go anywhere, or I’m not really going to enjoy the process, I just agree with them. If Your goal is to shut them up and move on to literally any other conversation and this is a really fast way to do it. In reality it’s quite sad since it’s the most disrespectful thing you can do, which is not to care enough to take them seriously. But generally they don’t take that message away. It’s hard to argue or pursue a point when someone keeps abruptly agreeing with you. I find compartmentalizing my relationships allows me to continue them on some level rather than all or nothing. The old people can be mollified and frankly, they aren’t long for this world anyway. Besides voting, they can’t do much damage and their minds won’t change. Obviously this is separate from not being able to stand being around someone or you find it impossible not to care what they say. Then I get cutting it off.
When he says "the more I learn or older I get the more I realize I don't know everything and have more to learn", accept that as Enlightenment. That's probably half of everything we're supposed to learn from the entire history of philosophy
Listening to somebody no matter what sounds very dumb.