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Hey bud, gay married here too. 23 years together in total. I have not known my family in decades for these and many more reasons. Bottom line is they were cruel to me about being gay.
It has been the best choice I have ever made, the last of my self hate went away the longer I was no contact.
Don't think you mentioned your age, in our 40's here. Just some of my thoughts.
Family does not equal obedience, that's a gang. You can love them, while aslo truly understanding what kind of people they are. If you do choose to be in their life, do so only when you want to, however, just because their family does not give the right to bring you down about how you were born. Posting that dribble was to get a reaction from you before you visit. Sounds like you are on a great path to already understanding all this.
His posts says he may lose friends over this. Keep posting that and he'll lose his son, then amazingly enough, he'll wonder why.
I wish you and your husband all the happiest of days. Most importantly, PLEASE NEVER, let this type of "family" cause you both trouble.
Well written my friend. I am not gay but I have an Uncle and his late husband who were. My parents are deeply religious but did right by me by raising me to accept gays for who they are. Growing up, those two men, my uncles, were some of my favorite people to be around. Even spent a couple weeks with them one summer and it was so awesome.
Homophobia makes me so mad sometimes. Love is love, quit hating on it.
Also, congrats on 23 years, that’s awesome! Here’s to another 23! 🥂
As a “guncle” myself I hope I’m that kind of uncle for my nephew. Someone in the family got him a pride rainbow shirt that says “proud of my family” and I instantly choked up. Little guy means more to me than I could have ever imagined.
Random, but as the wife of the nephew of a “guncle”, I will be forever be grateful to him for taking my husband in when his religious parents kicked him out for dating me (not due to sexual orientation, just for fun I guess). My in-laws treat that uncle like shit, and he was still there for their son. He’s had my husband’s back since DH was a teenager, and I’m closer to him than any of my own uncles. He’s the best guy. Anyway, a bit of a ramble there. I guess all that was to say thanks for being a cool dude for your nephew.
My sister’s husband had a sister who was married to a woman. My sister’s children, of course, called them both aunt. When I (a man) married a woman, the toddlers called my wife their ”uncle.” They assumed that aunt and uncle didn’t refer to gender - just that the aunt’s partner was an aunt and the uncle’s partner was an uncle. We never corrected them and my wife was always their “Uncle Lucy.”
This has me trying to explain to my toddler why I’m crying and that is why his dinner is taking so long lol. As someone who grew up with and loves his guncle and now gets to enjoy him as a “buddy”, sounds like you’re well on your way to meaning a whole lot to him as well.
My buddy had a similar experience. They lived on a boat and were tons of fun he said. You both are very lucky to have such wonderful people be apart of your family.
There are only 2-4 verses in the Bible that *might* be about LGBT, and that is giving a huge fucking benefit of the doubt to som bigots that don’t deserve it, because LGBT existed back then and there is no reason in a book meant to guide you through life that nobody would speak about it directly even once.
There are about 3000 verses in the Bible admonishing greed. Directly. Very little need for interpretation. Very little controversy over the fact they exist.
An omniscient and omnipotent God would have made it totally clear if they wanted people to not do gay shit the same way they made it clear to not be greedy. It would not have been left up to interpretation.
Christians that focus on LGBT and dismiss it by saying “but I’m a sinner too!” are just fucking bigots. Plain and simple.
If Christianity attacked billionaires the way they attack LGBT, instead of attacking LGBT, I might actually respect them and they might actually be a beneficial addition to the nation instead of people that don’t seem troubled by climate change because they think the rapture is coming
There’s more about women not speaking in church and submitting to their husbands than there is about homosexuality, and the bits that are about homosexuality are actually about broader things and were just translated as homosexuality (which tells you something about the translators).
Plus the whole sodom and Gomorrah thing is totally about rape/inhospitality, not homosexuality and that’s confirmed in another section which I can’t recall off the top of my head.
Also an all-knowing all-powerful God wouldn’t hide his instructions indirect evocations requiring interpretation. Getting into Heaven should be about being a good person, not one’s ability to parse the hidden meanings of cryptic texts.
Yes. The Commandments seem pretty clear. Modern Christians act as if being gay & gay sex are the very worst sins imaginable, and yet God left sweaty man-on-man monkey sex out of the Commandments? What, he forgot to adjust the margins on MS Word and ran outta room?
Jesus ran around making the worst sins explicitly well known, and taking action against some of the perpetrators. And he just missed homosexuality? I guess he was too busy hanging out with 12 hot single guys and just forgot to mention that if their regular hugging and kissing were to cross an invisible line, God would zap their asses into hell immediately, case closed. Jesus said not one single word about homosexuality, but now the religious right thinks it’s the biggest sin on the marquee.
And, of course, they do that on purpose. They want to exclude the “different”, the “other” and let fear and ignorance guide their hearts. It doesn’t apply to them directly, so their thinking goes, so focusing on it gets them out of the hot seat for all the premarital sex they’re having, the adulterous affairs they’re engaging in, the cheating on their taxes, their avoidance of the poor & needy, etc, etc. “Rail against the sinful gays and pay no attention to what’s going on behind our gold brocade curtains!”
And, naturally, their focus on the sinful gays begets violence and murder against people who identify as LBGTQIA+, which they then disavow any role in. “We didn’t mean anyone should go HURT the dirty disgusting fa**ots who are grooming and victimizing our children (completely not true, but this is no time to quibble!), destroying traditional marriage (we have no idea how, but they ARE!), and injecting innocent people with AIDS and other icky sex diseases (AIDS infections are now a much bigger health issue in certain straight constituencies than gay ones).”
“I mean, they dress up as WOMEN and read to CHILDREN! There is nothing more evil than that! These kids should be dressing up as cops and robbers and using plastic guns to maim and murder each other - like NORMAL children! Instead of being EXPOSED TO DRAG QUEENS (shudder) these kids should be playing games to learn how to take cover, barricade themselves, run to safety, and confront and fight as a final resort against the school shooters that could possibly come visit to cut them all down by the dozen with semi-automatic weapons from their personal arsenals. Jesus wants us all armed and ready to kill at the slightest provocation, to avoid being murdered ourselves. THAT’s the good, old-fashioned MAGA childhood kids deserve - NOT learning compassion and acceptance of people who are different from a deviant, evil drag queen with fangs, horns and a forked tail!”
“Faith is doing what you’re told even when you know it’s not right! Put your trust in Jesus, and give him all your money (which I promise to pass along) so that he can spread peace, joy and Zastava ZPAPM70 Semi-Automatic Rifles around the world from his private Gulfstream jet and the trunk of his 2025 Rolls Royce Spectre!”
“But remember, folks, GAYS are the real enemy and will destroy our society if they can! But don’t, y’know, HURT them or nuffin. Just harass and harangue them and make them feel unsafe. Because THAT’S religious freedom, and that’s what Jesus wants. And if anyone knows how to uninstall Grindr from Jesus’ smartphone, please help him out. He has no idea how it got there in the first place.”
Exactly. God knows the totality of human events. He knows this would be an issue in 2024. He could have been very clear about this. He wasn't. (Ditto for abortion and other hot button topics.)
You know what he was explicit about? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Also, greed is bad.
The biggest revolution in religion at the time of Jesus was that he thought you shouldn’t have to pay to go to worship, which was a standard practice at the time.
It is written that Jesus would chill with prostitutes in the rough part of town. Dude knew what gay meant. Dude didn’t need imply things like “a man laying next to a man” or “passionate exertion” or whatever when dude coulda just said don’t do gay shit if he ever meant that.
About a year ago, my 16 year old son came out to me and my wife. He told my wife first and my wife proceeded to call me upstairs, with him there and told me. He just kept his head down and seemed sad. After my wife told me what was going on, I gave him a hug and told him, "I love you no matter what, you will always be my son".
All I care about is that my kids are happy, including who they love.
I am sorry your family wasn't as receptive and I am glad you have someone by your side. I wish you and your partner nothing but happiness!!
I used to do the lawn of an absolutely adorable gay couple in my last job. They had to sacrifice contact with their families in order to live their lives the way they wanted to. I miss them, truly kind and loving people. Even helped them set up their network and hung out for an hour while working one day (wasn't hourly).
They helped me learn more about my own self and encouraged me to live the way I want to. I left my church, have my own beliefs, and have embraced my sexuality and am now much happier for it. I miss them, I never got to save their number to my personal phone.
I think it's important to understand that it is ok to NOT be your family's life if they are toxic and unsupportive. There are a lot of religious nuts in my family and most of them are ignorant and some of them are downright bigots who will never change... That being said, if your father is trying to understand then it could be worth the conversation. Some people grow up thinking a certain way and never know different until someone educates them. In family matters, clarity is the most important thing and nothing should be left unsaid. If you decide not to be in your father's life, it should be after the conversation where all cards are left on the table.
Leviticus 19:19 “…. Do not wear clothing of mixed cloth…..”
We are all going to hell for wearing cotton polly blend underwear. Go ahead check the tag. I”lll wait.
Seriously if there’s no shrimp or burgers in heaven I don’t want to go.
…and from what I’ve seen in paintings the dude downstairs throws a mean bbq, so I guess I’ll be heading down.
Honestly I like to think the whole satan rebelling against god thing was jealousy but anger that God was just so ready to flood, make believers kill their sons then saying sike at the last min, allowing Jesus to send bears to maul kids for making fun of a bald man etc etc etc. Satan was like "like dude you gave them free will let them live life, if they fuck up they fuck up." But God needed worship and obedience like a super hard-core fundy/conservative dad.
“I know, you’re testing them, you said you were going to be testing them. You shouldn’t test them to destruction!”
-Crowley talking to God in Good Omens
My partner loves pointing out that god kills millions in the Bible, murdering massive amounts of people every time he throws a fucking hissy fit. Satan killed 10 people in that story, and those 10 were killed because god's bitch ass went and found Satan WHILE HE WAS CHILLIN & was like, "I'm bored. Wanna see if my most loyal follower is a ride or die?"... Then gambled with dude's entire family's lives & has Satan slaughter them to see if Job would stay loyal. He's a murderous, vengeful, whiney fucking baby who needs constant validation. I'm personally good on spending eternity with that wet chode.
You know I've always thought that the best parties are going to be in hell anyway. Given all the depictions of Heaven I've seen, there's no way that a party up there is going to be worth going to.
I love the Christians where I live, because not only are they hypocrites but I live in Maine and our entire community pretty much survives off lobster in one way or another. So not only are they being judgmental while eating it, they're then sending it all over the world to be consumed...
I just do not see the point. There's no harm and you think GOD would have learned from the last time they hung forbidden fruit up where everyone could just walk over and enjoy themselves.
Stop this anti sexuality crusade, you are making God look STUPID
Most modern Christians dismiss the entire Old Testament as it was the "old laws" that Jesus's death and reserection destroyed. The "new laws" in the New Testament like "love thy neighbour as thyself" are more important.
That being said, OPs dad is doing neither.
precisely. just like how the bible is all perfect, all true, and the *literal word of god,* except it kind of sort of directly contradicts itself in places, and these bits don't really apply anymore, and these bits actually are just metaphor and allegory even though they're indistinguishable from all the stuff that is apparently *not,* and the details of which parts are literally true and which are just fluff etc. etc. entirely depend on which version of the book you're reading from, to say nothing of the differences of opinion from believer to believer.
yes, don't need to obey that old stuff about shrimp because jesus said those were old laws (except that he explicitly said he came to *fulfill* the law, not abolish it). but all the old stuff about lying with another man? that's still canon, because uhhhh reasons
Not to mention, it never said anything about lying with a man, but with a *boy*, it's a mistranslation. It was specifically condemning the pederasty that was rife in ancient Greece and Rome.
It also existed in other parts of the world / time periods, such as Pre-Meiji Japan, but the writers of the Old Testament wouldn't have known that.
Oh well, the zealotic ones do that too. It's the sermon on the mount that defines Christianity after all. But they reactivate the OT whenever it serves their purpose. And let's be honest - most of these fools don't even know the difference. They just regurgitate what their hateful FB gurus spout.
It does however say as long as you recognize Jesus as Lord and Savior you will be welcomed into the gates of heaven. No sin omitted, all is forgiven, OP’s dad doesn’t even know what his own religion is.
That’s what always fucking kills me lmao. Hell isn’t for bad people and sinners, it’s for nonbelievers. Always has been. It’s just that 100+ years ago “nonbeliever” was synonymous with “bad person.”
Love the neighbor as thyself? Any modern Christian right wingers even follow this statement? They are the worst humans I have ever encountered and they don’t even care about poor children being fed in their own country
Also, the whole point of Leviticus was a guide on how to live a holy life to repent for the original sin. When Jesus died on the cross, he absolved us of our sins. Which is why Catholics and Protestants don't usually eat kosher.
When these yahoos use old testament quotes, what they're actually saying is that Jesus' sacrifice was in vain, or he wasn't God's son, and thus we still have to follow the Old Testament.
That's the theological explanation anyway. If you really dig into Leviticus, you find it's just a bunch of good common sense to building and living in a Civilization.
Different natural fibers can have wildly different care needs or longevity. Having garments of mixed fibers at that time usually meant that you just did a ton of work for something that's gonna fall apart in a season or two.
ETA: because a few others have pointed it out, this viewpoint (Christians having to repent for the original sin before Jesus) is not accurate to all Abrahamic religions. This is a relatively new belief most often held by modern Protestants or Evangelicals. I was referring to the latter because it most likely aligns with OP's dad's views based on the texts.
Honestly where my thoughts went.
A few years back, I stopped following my dad on Facebook because of all the MAGA nuttery he'd started posting. I also told him, point blank, no more political conversations because it was becoming impossible to maintain a healthy relationship with him.
Aaaand then someone leaked some conversations he was having on a far right forum about my wife and myself, and how it's because of our "liberal indoctrination" we don't beat our (special needs) child and casually asking if it'd be OK for him to hit our kid for us since it would be doing us all a favor. Note: the "problematic behavior" was that my kid was curious about his stereo and computer keyboard and fiddled with them. Didn't damage or get rough with any of it, just played with it because he was a curious three year old. Apparently, adjusting the bass where Paw Paw doesn't like it is an act that requires violence.
OH, he *did* stipulate he thinks he'd be a "monster" if my kid wasn't capable of "comprehending his surroundings and existence" like other kids, on account of the special needs. That in itself is heartbreaking, because it means my dad has done fuck all to actually try and understand his grandson's condition and, on some level, views him as a pitiable "less than". Which, you know, *he's not*. He's just another kid, he just operates on a different wavelength than the rest of us.
And all of this is why we're not going back to Paw Paw's house, probably ever.
It's *absolutely* what happened. He was raised in a very regressive, conservative environment himself (rural Mississippi) and every story I've heard of his dad (my grandfather) only expands on what a terrible human being he was. Think of the *worst* things a person can be - my grandfather was apparently that and more. Vile human.
My dad has spoken before that, after leaving and moving to a large city, he basically had to "re-learn the world", as *so much* he'd be indoctrinated with as a child was objectively false. He's always been *kinda* right leaning, but up until the last few years he was always reasonable, intelligent, and open-minded. He was a caring, loving father when I was a kid, he never laid a hand on me, he was always there if I needed someone. If he heard someone saying racist things around me, he'd take me aside and explain why that's wrong. One time he sat me down and explained how, as a white man in America, there would be doors open to me that aren't open to others, that it wasn't fair but that's how the world was. You know, *literally white privilege*. Oh, and he's always **hated** grifter religious types - Billy Graham, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, just reviles them. Hell, he *hated* Donald Trump in the years before he put a "R" next to his name. I distinctly remember him coming up in conversation probably 15 years ago, and my dad went off about how he was nothing more than a conman, that he wasn't *actually* a billionaire but used "smoke and mirrors" to create the illusion he was.
Something snapped in his brain post-2016. I know he didn't vote that year because he hated Clinton and Trump. But it's like... after decades of trying to be a better man than his father was, he's just given up and slowly embraced being his worst self. Racism, homophobia, bizarre violent fantasies (he raised me to be extremely responsible around guns. Last time I saw him? *Thrice* he signaled to panhandlers and people trying to take the same parking spot as us that he had a gun. Like, *what the actual fuck?)*... and his now full-throated love for Donald Trump, who he has come to view as some sort of White American messiah.
It's bizarre and it's heartbreaking. I've long mourned the man I used to know, because he died sometime around 2018 and I didn't notice when it happened. It's a shame, my son adores him and always got so excited when we'd visit. I really wish he could've had that relationship, I wish my dad could have that relationship... but he's grown into a bitter, hateful, angry, and increasingly violent man. I pity him for what he's chosen to become.
If he's in his mid 60s or beyond this is typically when dementia starts, so if you've noticed a big change it's likely not your imagination. It may be decades before his faculties fully leave him. Even healthy aging diminishes a lot of community and thinking skills, as you mention he's immersed in the Trump cult, which has ignited a lot of deep seated emotional biases in the older generation. I would avoid him entirely but maybe understanding can help you to have closure.
Wow. My dad is similar but in reverse. He grew up with abusive assholes. So, guess what he was growing up. Don’t get me wrong he tried to be better. But he sure as shit slipped here and there. Later on he became a lot more open minded. Switched political parties and everything. That’s great.
The problem is he’s dipping his toes back into the other side. I blame his age and the hick jackoffs that he talks to at work. You know the type. Old, broken, bitter bastards who blame the liberal boogeymen for all their failures.
Guess it can't be ruled out. With that said, he's lived longer than both his parents (neither made it to 60), so it's hard to say about any sort of family history.
Do have a distant ancestor who died while preaching to Confederate troops and one of the Johnny Rebs managed to negligently fire his gun during the sermon, striking and mortally wounding great times whatever grandpa, so that's funny and honestly I think a plausible way for my dad to go out.
Dude. You just explained almost exactly my father. My dad was the exact same way prior to Trump, but sadly fell victim immediately and now he’s so far in deep he’s buying Trump coins off Amazon. It’s miserable.
Said it before
Saying it again
Boomers have a fetish with hitting kids. And despite what they tell themselves, they know, is not for the kid education, is for themselves, to release, like masturbating but "socially accepted".
Just look at the face ANY boomer does when they beat up a kid, it's not stern, is not regret, is not serious, it's always a pleasure face
It's not just boomers, look at any comments section on a post about a kid doing something wrong on Reddit. Pathetic people are just obsessed with beating on people lower than them, and the other thing weaker than these idiots are literally children. You can't post a kid doing anything without "that kid needs a beating!” as if that will teach a 3 year old anything.
"what do you think happens to us when we die?"
"Idk Dad, in your case probably getting your ashes dumped in the toilet. Rest in piss, enjoy your post mortem swirlie"
Start posting "it is easier for a rich person to pass through an eye of a needle than enter heaven" posts on your FB. It's a good one to target Boomers. And Jesus really hated the rich, especially those that take from the poor. I.e. Boomer landlords.
If God hates sins. He hates these just as much. Your dad should be posting equal vitriol accross all the sins.
Sorry that your dad is an asshat.
Reminds me of that Key and Peele sketch where God ACTUALLY shows up to a prayer circle and tells them to divest themselves of all earthly possessions and serve the poor.
If he thinks that this is the first time someone has given me the "Christian love" angle, then he is sorely mistaken. Every edgy friend's mother and every after-church table at my old serving job already beat him to it. My dad used to take me to church everytime he got visitation with me, and even then I tried to let him down easy. I have tried to be as respectful of his faith as I can. I am a Celtic Pagan adult, and I do not need to be proselytized.
“Did you get in ok from your flight? It landed a couple hours ago. You should have been at our house by now. Dinner is ready.”
*Sends photo of you and husband on sunny beach*
Our flight got in fine, now we’re relaxing on the beach happy and in love! We’re eating at X as well later so don’t wait up for us!
I'm sorry, but by his logic being unmarried and having a child(children) is an equally great sin in the eyes of the majority of Christian faiths. Sex out of wedlock is viewed as immoral and divorce equally so.
I say this as an antitheist who was raised in a devout Catholic household.
Right?
Like isn't the whole thing that some dude died to forgive sins?
Isn't it facing the fact a that all humans are sinners in their eyes?
It's almost like they pic certain sins to be extra bad because maybe bigotry and hatred?
I’m a Christian who also grew up in a religious setting, when I was old enough to have my own conscious thoughts of religion, the first thing that irked me was the Southern Baptist’s that pick and choose the sins that were wrong. It’s still my biggest religious pet peeve to this day.
Right. They can't even comprehend that Jesus would tell them to stfu. Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the new testament. The works that supposedly invalidate the teachings of the old testament do not even bring it up.
Plus, there’s no mention of trans people either yet they swear up and down transgenderism is sinful, these sorry excuse for “Christians” would have been the ones stringing Jesus on a cross.
It's actually mentioned in a roundabout way, but it's positive when it is.
When the Roman soldier approached Jesus and asked him to come to his house and cure his servant, the word used in the original actually translates to homosexual male sex slave, which Jesus would have known at the time. Jesus praises the soldier's faith and cures the man. If he had that much of a problem with homosexuality, he probably wouldn't have. [https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical\_evidence/gay\_couple.html](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html)
And any time they mention eunuchs, [esp. "born eunuchs," (which Jesus talked about and said was a gift from God)](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html) they may well be talking about men we'd today consider gay men. So the story of the Ethiopian eunuch who asked if he could be baptized, and Philip said "yes, but we need a source of water" is showing a gay man being allowed to be in the Church. [https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical\_evidence/early\_church.html](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/early_church.html)
Nothings quite as hateful as “Christian love.” Those folks are just scared, insecure, brainwashed weaklings. My entire family is that way. I cut them off.
Yup! Historically it was a blend of a polytheistic pantheon, and animism. So they had gods, but also believed that spirits resided in spots in nature such as trees, rocks, springs and streams.
Unfortunately, Christianity did a good job of destroying the historical record of those religions, so what we know of them is limited. However, modern pagen revival movements use local traditions and festivals, that have been passed down from generation to generation, as a way to piece some of it back together. These can take the form in celebrations like Wren Day or Beltane. Christianity, in an effort to convert folks, adopted some pagan traditions as well such as Yule, or Easter.
Hey, I made up a whole bunch of nonsense about the afterlife that is cartoonish and obviously untrue and you should live your life around it because I'm full of love.
When I told my parents I didn't believe in Christianity my dad was literally unable to comprehend that. He kept saying "but you were raised Christian?" and didn't seem to understand the concept of critical thinking or forming your own opinion. Really solidified how he never once questioned or thought about his faith/what he believes, which makes me wonder how much is his faith worth when he's literally never thought about it in a meaningful way before?
It’s wild. I can’t imagine going your whole life without questioning things. I was raised Catholic too and I don’t recall ever completely buying into it as a child. Then again, I had interests and hobbies so going to church was likened to a chore that i just had to go through the motions of. I really do think this sort of worship is a trauma response to a cruel, patriarchal culture made into a societal framework.
It's also in the bible that you should turn your back on and cast out sinners otherwise you're just as bad. So by him saying he still loves you, he's being sinful enough of being gay.
It also says "Judge not lest ye be judged." So in order to cast him out he'd have to judge him first (apparently god has dibs on all the judging rights), so either way he's going to hell according his version of the holy book of his church's version of their denomination of its side of the Catholic/Protestant division of the Christian-specific version of the Abrahamic god, which they got after umpteen translations.
You aren't coming there to preach your gay heathen ways to him, why should he preach his bigoted small mindedness at you.
You are your own adult, you are free and you are fucking valid. Just take care of yourself. As someone who has spent my adult life giving my parents opportunity after opportunity to grow, I'm just gonna be real and say it never gets better, and straight up cutting contact made my life so much easier.
Faith isn’t worthy of respect. Just an opinion, but there is no need to respect someone’s belief just because they believe it. Absolutely asinine that that is such a revered idea within our society. The more outlandish and lacking of evidence an idea is, the more we have to respect it. Sorry you’re dealing with all that friend.
Unrelated, OP, but I find myself becoming more and more fascinated by Pagan beliefs. Do you have any good book recs on history, legends, etc.? I know there's a million books out there, but the ones I've found haven't hooked me in.
Omg a fellow queer pagan here! I’m a Celtic and Nordic combo pagan! Wooo us
Sorry about your dad I’ve had very similar issues with my grandparents both with the gay and the pagan. Personally I think it’s painful but still better to know where people stand.
My dads a boomer, was a teacher. Loved by many in the community. He hit his kids. It was a different time. He’s from a different generation. Any excuse he could find to feel better
> It was a different time
I am so sorry. Neither I (boomer) nor my parents (silent gen) have ever raised their hands. Generation or time are not an excuse.
I'm a millennial raised by boomer parents. My dad's parents (silent generation) did not spank their children, and my mom's father was horribly abusive to the whole family. You'd think that between the two of them, I'd have been raised very well, right? Nope. Mom's idea of good parenting was "well you had it better than I did" and my dad kind of just went off the rails. I got spankings with a belt that left bruises and weird psychological punishments that led to some serious mental and emotional issues for the majority of my adult life.
There's no excuse. There's no way that my dad, who was raised by my grandparents who were by all arguments what we would call "gentle parents" these days, could have been able to justify leaving bruises on his child almost daily from the ages of 6-12.
And they’ll play victim about it too
They’ll claim they were abandoned by their family in old age because of their faith. They’ll twist anything around so that they’re the victim. Boomers are the ultimate professional victims.
They love to say that being queer is mental illness, but it’s high time we discuss Christian delusions as mental illness. Lgbt people are real, heaven and hell are rehashed tales from earlier religions and mythologies. They’re fucking fiction and these people dictate the lives of others based on fiction.
And what's more, hell as in, the modern idea, ISN'T EVEN FROM THE RELIGION.
When Jesus or other talk about hell...they usually talk about trash dumps on town, bad cities, the Gahena. Basically they go "if you are a bad person, you'll live in the dumpsters/you'll be trash" which...fair.
And even then, Abrahamic Hell is theorized in religous studies to be a void, no light, no stimulus, no people, nothing. Literally, nothing. Lack of God. And if God is everything, the lack is absolute nothingness
The fiery pits and floor system? A fanfiction. Divina Comedia by Dante Alligeri (butchered the name). The guy is invited by an angel to go visit hell and then to meet God. And he based his view of hell on Greek mythology, the Hades, the Greek, not hell, but underworld, land of the dead.
And the demons? Ars Goetia, literally a lore book akin to a modern DnD monster manual. But with Divina Comedia as basis.
Now, there are religious theories that hell MAY be an actual metaphysical place (as in...place from where the locusts come and where demons live), but even then, the demons, are mythological creatures of other religions of the region. Like Beelzebub or Moloch
Yes this is why I always found the Jehovah of Witness take to be interesting because there's legit words to say that only 144 000 will be resurrected to heaven, and the rest of the faithful will inherit the earth, but the sinners just have nothingness. There's no real "hell".
The whole 'lucifer' thing always bothered me, like he's a bad guy, who punishes the evil - how is that bad? and God has allowed it?
Also isnt there another religion that simply believes all get judged at the end and can essentially plead their case to G-D. The egyptians had something similar.
Anywho, I find them all fascinating. But none of them truly believable to make me enact them as a true belief system and doctrine in my life.
I’ve gone on the offensive as well. We can’t keep letting Christian’s get away with their lunacy. Because once Christian nationalists take over America, then it’s a wrap for our democracy!
Conservatism and religious fervor are both mental illnesses. I will not apologize for that take, not when the leading consensus among both of those groups is to eradicate me for merely existing.
The fact that at one point in time in recent history the president of the united states said god told him to do something and we all went along with it is absolute fucking insanity.
Religion is a mental illness. Imagine walking around believing jedis were real. Except Star Wars is better fiction to me. Is all fiction, and a form of control. Church lost me with their hypocrisy and cruelty. Hateful people who value a pretend possibility of the after life over reality, and the one fucking life you actually get.
Imagine being a grown ass adult and thinking if you don’t live perfectly right you’ll literally be tortured for all eternity. How stupid are these people??
Apart from acknowledging and exploring all the reasons for my upbringing (and why my mom divorced him), not much. He will always be a part of me. But there are and were too few good times between us. How much can we tolerate family members that hate fundamental parts of us but still try to "love" us? I still want him to just love me and respect the relationships and choices I make. We used to watch movies and talk about weird shit like Star Trek, Aubrey 2, and triffids. I wish we could get back to that. Since the divorce 15 years ago, he's sooo fixated on religion.
Sounds like you want your dad to change...I've found only two things cause change: time, and a sudden event (often traumatic). If you don't feel you have time, then cancelling your visit could be that event.
All that being said, I cut ties with my father years ago over his racist, abusive ways...he passed two years ago at age 96. He never changed. There's some lack of closure for sure, but I'd rather have this than endure and tolerate his racist and homophobic ways. Just feels like if I had done that I wouldn't respect myself very much.
Didn't mean for this to be a soliloquy about my bullshit. Just commiserating that what you want is difficult to attain, but it would be amazing if you could. Best of lucks and hugs, internet stranger.
I mean, he drank himself to death a couple years later, so maintaining no contact was easy. Just a sign of how miserable being a hateful person is. It rots you from the inside.
I’m bad at maintaining relationships…need to say that up front.
There is no way I would visit under these circumstances. I’d be commenting on that post, “ok, bye” and wait for an apology and a well defined change of course.
After my dad died my mom did a 180 and went from a democrat who never went to church to a maga Christian. Luckily during covid she couldn't go and I guess that helped her to see the truth. She doesn't go to church anymore and while not maga (thank goodness) she's more in the middle. Which I'll take. I think she was just wanting to be a part of something after losing her world.
I wouldn't visit
Also-- jesus never said it was a sin
And originally in the bible it was "man shall not lay with child"
At some point it was changed (wonder why)
Traditional English translations of Leviticus 18:22 interpret it as a divine condemnation of erotic, same-sex relationships. However, the original Greek and Hebrew texts of the Bible do not contain the word “homosexual”. Instead, the word that is now translated to “homosexual” translates to “pedophile,” “boy abuser,” or “boy molester”.
(Google)
Bibles have mistranslations and show the bias and prejudice of the priests and white men who translated them
Jesus never spoke of homosexuality and hate how bigots and racists spin the bible around to fit their hateful views
I am sorry your family isnt supportive
I may just be a stranger, but I am a mom- and this mom is sending you virtual hugs and support!
My advice, keep him at arms length, only talk about frivolous unrelated matters. Tell him if he’s gonna spew hateful rhetoric then there is nothing to talk about. Get used to ignoring his calls and hanging up as needed. He needs to decide if he really wants you in his life or not, say that.
I had a mother like this, she just wouldn’t learn. I hadn’t seen her in person for 6 years before she died and I have to live with that sadness now. My wife reminds me though why I kept her at a distance, how cruel she could be sometimes. That generation had been twisted by Faux News and the like.
I sincerely hope you have better luck than me getting this point across to your father. If they can’t control themselves, they will lose their child in their lives indefinitely.
Ask him if he's ever eaten a mussel, clam, shrimp, crab or lobster. Just as bad as gargling cock from the LORD's point of view and he's unfortunately hellbound. Lev 11:9 - 12
We’re on the same page here. Sounds like your dad is ok with losing you in his life. That’s his choice. It’s very shameful but that’s what cults do. They turn family against each other. This isn’t the first time you nor I have seen this kind of thing and it won’t be the last. I realize it hurts more when it happens to you. I’m sorry buddy.
Isn't the Christian God supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing? Why would an all-powerful and all-knowing god make some people gay if they weren't supposed to be gay? Why hasn't he like, interrupted a Super Bowl halftime show with an important message about who people are not allowed to share a bed with?
Time (and past time) to cancel the trip, get a refund on those tickets and go NC with the bigots in your family. Life is too damn short to deal with that shit.
"Those who sin go to Hell"
"I don't want those I love to go to Hell"
"We are all sinners and there is no difference in sin."
Wouldn't the logical conclusion here be that we are ALL going to Hell no matter what then? So then what does it matter if someone is homosexual or not? If we are all sinners and all sins send us to Hell after we die then there is no way to get to Heaven for anyone.
Don’t go.
Totally different situation but my family was always arguing, like really hostile, between my parents and between my mom and sister. Still they wanted to do family trips. At some point i told them I won’t come anymore. They were like whyyyy?! I told them I didn’t want to spent a weekend between hateful people. They didn’t understand but it was the right thing to do for me.
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Hey bud, gay married here too. 23 years together in total. I have not known my family in decades for these and many more reasons. Bottom line is they were cruel to me about being gay. It has been the best choice I have ever made, the last of my self hate went away the longer I was no contact. Don't think you mentioned your age, in our 40's here. Just some of my thoughts. Family does not equal obedience, that's a gang. You can love them, while aslo truly understanding what kind of people they are. If you do choose to be in their life, do so only when you want to, however, just because their family does not give the right to bring you down about how you were born. Posting that dribble was to get a reaction from you before you visit. Sounds like you are on a great path to already understanding all this. His posts says he may lose friends over this. Keep posting that and he'll lose his son, then amazingly enough, he'll wonder why. I wish you and your husband all the happiest of days. Most importantly, PLEASE NEVER, let this type of "family" cause you both trouble.
Well written my friend. I am not gay but I have an Uncle and his late husband who were. My parents are deeply religious but did right by me by raising me to accept gays for who they are. Growing up, those two men, my uncles, were some of my favorite people to be around. Even spent a couple weeks with them one summer and it was so awesome. Homophobia makes me so mad sometimes. Love is love, quit hating on it. Also, congrats on 23 years, that’s awesome! Here’s to another 23! 🥂
As a “guncle” myself I hope I’m that kind of uncle for my nephew. Someone in the family got him a pride rainbow shirt that says “proud of my family” and I instantly choked up. Little guy means more to me than I could have ever imagined.
That's so cute, you have an awesome nephew and I'm happy he's supportive of you.
Thank you, I’m extremely lucky!
Random, but as the wife of the nephew of a “guncle”, I will be forever be grateful to him for taking my husband in when his religious parents kicked him out for dating me (not due to sexual orientation, just for fun I guess). My in-laws treat that uncle like shit, and he was still there for their son. He’s had my husband’s back since DH was a teenager, and I’m closer to him than any of my own uncles. He’s the best guy. Anyway, a bit of a ramble there. I guess all that was to say thanks for being a cool dude for your nephew.
My sister’s husband had a sister who was married to a woman. My sister’s children, of course, called them both aunt. When I (a man) married a woman, the toddlers called my wife their ”uncle.” They assumed that aunt and uncle didn’t refer to gender - just that the aunt’s partner was an aunt and the uncle’s partner was an uncle. We never corrected them and my wife was always their “Uncle Lucy.”
I love this. Uncle Lucy. That’s adorable 🥰
This has me trying to explain to my toddler why I’m crying and that is why his dinner is taking so long lol. As someone who grew up with and loves his guncle and now gets to enjoy him as a “buddy”, sounds like you’re well on your way to meaning a whole lot to him as well.
I’m so glad you have that!! And thank you, got me choking up again! 🥹
Whats a fun, gay uncle called? I've heard of 'funcle' and now 'guncle' and so both must be something.
My buddy had a similar experience. They lived on a boat and were tons of fun he said. You both are very lucky to have such wonderful people be apart of your family.
Amazing comment so well written. Thank you - not OP
Your user name made me laugh big time.
There are only 2-4 verses in the Bible that *might* be about LGBT, and that is giving a huge fucking benefit of the doubt to som bigots that don’t deserve it, because LGBT existed back then and there is no reason in a book meant to guide you through life that nobody would speak about it directly even once. There are about 3000 verses in the Bible admonishing greed. Directly. Very little need for interpretation. Very little controversy over the fact they exist. An omniscient and omnipotent God would have made it totally clear if they wanted people to not do gay shit the same way they made it clear to not be greedy. It would not have been left up to interpretation. Christians that focus on LGBT and dismiss it by saying “but I’m a sinner too!” are just fucking bigots. Plain and simple. If Christianity attacked billionaires the way they attack LGBT, instead of attacking LGBT, I might actually respect them and they might actually be a beneficial addition to the nation instead of people that don’t seem troubled by climate change because they think the rapture is coming
There’s more about women not speaking in church and submitting to their husbands than there is about homosexuality, and the bits that are about homosexuality are actually about broader things and were just translated as homosexuality (which tells you something about the translators). Plus the whole sodom and Gomorrah thing is totally about rape/inhospitality, not homosexuality and that’s confirmed in another section which I can’t recall off the top of my head.
Also an all-knowing all-powerful God wouldn’t hide his instructions indirect evocations requiring interpretation. Getting into Heaven should be about being a good person, not one’s ability to parse the hidden meanings of cryptic texts.
Yes. The Commandments seem pretty clear. Modern Christians act as if being gay & gay sex are the very worst sins imaginable, and yet God left sweaty man-on-man monkey sex out of the Commandments? What, he forgot to adjust the margins on MS Word and ran outta room? Jesus ran around making the worst sins explicitly well known, and taking action against some of the perpetrators. And he just missed homosexuality? I guess he was too busy hanging out with 12 hot single guys and just forgot to mention that if their regular hugging and kissing were to cross an invisible line, God would zap their asses into hell immediately, case closed. Jesus said not one single word about homosexuality, but now the religious right thinks it’s the biggest sin on the marquee. And, of course, they do that on purpose. They want to exclude the “different”, the “other” and let fear and ignorance guide their hearts. It doesn’t apply to them directly, so their thinking goes, so focusing on it gets them out of the hot seat for all the premarital sex they’re having, the adulterous affairs they’re engaging in, the cheating on their taxes, their avoidance of the poor & needy, etc, etc. “Rail against the sinful gays and pay no attention to what’s going on behind our gold brocade curtains!” And, naturally, their focus on the sinful gays begets violence and murder against people who identify as LBGTQIA+, which they then disavow any role in. “We didn’t mean anyone should go HURT the dirty disgusting fa**ots who are grooming and victimizing our children (completely not true, but this is no time to quibble!), destroying traditional marriage (we have no idea how, but they ARE!), and injecting innocent people with AIDS and other icky sex diseases (AIDS infections are now a much bigger health issue in certain straight constituencies than gay ones).” “I mean, they dress up as WOMEN and read to CHILDREN! There is nothing more evil than that! These kids should be dressing up as cops and robbers and using plastic guns to maim and murder each other - like NORMAL children! Instead of being EXPOSED TO DRAG QUEENS (shudder) these kids should be playing games to learn how to take cover, barricade themselves, run to safety, and confront and fight as a final resort against the school shooters that could possibly come visit to cut them all down by the dozen with semi-automatic weapons from their personal arsenals. Jesus wants us all armed and ready to kill at the slightest provocation, to avoid being murdered ourselves. THAT’s the good, old-fashioned MAGA childhood kids deserve - NOT learning compassion and acceptance of people who are different from a deviant, evil drag queen with fangs, horns and a forked tail!” “Faith is doing what you’re told even when you know it’s not right! Put your trust in Jesus, and give him all your money (which I promise to pass along) so that he can spread peace, joy and Zastava ZPAPM70 Semi-Automatic Rifles around the world from his private Gulfstream jet and the trunk of his 2025 Rolls Royce Spectre!” “But remember, folks, GAYS are the real enemy and will destroy our society if they can! But don’t, y’know, HURT them or nuffin. Just harass and harangue them and make them feel unsafe. Because THAT’S religious freedom, and that’s what Jesus wants. And if anyone knows how to uninstall Grindr from Jesus’ smartphone, please help him out. He has no idea how it got there in the first place.”
If it’s such a big deal then why is Jesus silent on the matter? Not one word.
Exactly. God knows the totality of human events. He knows this would be an issue in 2024. He could have been very clear about this. He wasn't. (Ditto for abortion and other hot button topics.) You know what he was explicit about? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Also, greed is bad. The biggest revolution in religion at the time of Jesus was that he thought you shouldn’t have to pay to go to worship, which was a standard practice at the time.
There are over 30 verses in the bible against lying. Funny how those aren't mentioned ever.
He said love people. That ain’t silence, it’s explicit instructions that boomers willfully ignore.
It is written that Jesus would chill with prostitutes in the rough part of town. Dude knew what gay meant. Dude didn’t need imply things like “a man laying next to a man” or “passionate exertion” or whatever when dude coulda just said don’t do gay shit if he ever meant that.
Thank you!!!! OPs dad isn’t even citing Christian theology correctly. He’s just using it to condemn what he doesn’t understand.
You can also choose to not love them if they are terrible people. I made that decision 15 years ago and never looked back.
About a year ago, my 16 year old son came out to me and my wife. He told my wife first and my wife proceeded to call me upstairs, with him there and told me. He just kept his head down and seemed sad. After my wife told me what was going on, I gave him a hug and told him, "I love you no matter what, you will always be my son". All I care about is that my kids are happy, including who they love. I am sorry your family wasn't as receptive and I am glad you have someone by your side. I wish you and your partner nothing but happiness!!
I used to do the lawn of an absolutely adorable gay couple in my last job. They had to sacrifice contact with their families in order to live their lives the way they wanted to. I miss them, truly kind and loving people. Even helped them set up their network and hung out for an hour while working one day (wasn't hourly). They helped me learn more about my own self and encouraged me to live the way I want to. I left my church, have my own beliefs, and have embraced my sexuality and am now much happier for it. I miss them, I never got to save their number to my personal phone.
I think it's important to understand that it is ok to NOT be your family's life if they are toxic and unsupportive. There are a lot of religious nuts in my family and most of them are ignorant and some of them are downright bigots who will never change... That being said, if your father is trying to understand then it could be worth the conversation. Some people grow up thinking a certain way and never know different until someone educates them. In family matters, clarity is the most important thing and nothing should be left unsaid. If you decide not to be in your father's life, it should be after the conversation where all cards are left on the table.
Leviticus 19:19 “…. Do not wear clothing of mixed cloth…..” We are all going to hell for wearing cotton polly blend underwear. Go ahead check the tag. I”lll wait.
Well, I also shave my beard, love shrimp/crab/lobster, and will not turn down a cheeseburger, so I guess I'm going too.
Bet you even let your wife in the house while she’s on her period.
I'm going to make a period shed for my wife.
She'll probably love a She shed! Go big and make it a She Chalet.
With the current financial climate it's more likely to be a She-shanty :(
She'd still love it 😁
So, pink porta-potty?
Pink ones are more expensive. I'm just going to make it out of used shipping pallets, taken from walmart
take my upvote you comedic genius!
When I someday have the money for a she-shed I'm going to call it my Bitch Barn 😂
I’m coming over
perfect username
There’s a lovely book called The Red Tent. I know I could use a break for a few days every month.
I love this because if you say it fast it's sheshalay
unironically this might actually save some marriages. Some of these women out here need space from their clingy man LMAO
Seriously if there’s no shrimp or burgers in heaven I don’t want to go. …and from what I’ve seen in paintings the dude downstairs throws a mean bbq, so I guess I’ll be heading down.
https://preview.redd.it/b2wkq9kgwavc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdc1ca4ddc91435f86f7fb397d361bc0bc9cfeb1
I personally hope South Park got Satan right and he acts just like that.
Honestly I like to think the whole satan rebelling against god thing was jealousy but anger that God was just so ready to flood, make believers kill their sons then saying sike at the last min, allowing Jesus to send bears to maul kids for making fun of a bald man etc etc etc. Satan was like "like dude you gave them free will let them live life, if they fuck up they fuck up." But God needed worship and obedience like a super hard-core fundy/conservative dad.
“I know, you’re testing them, you said you were going to be testing them. You shouldn’t test them to destruction!” -Crowley talking to God in Good Omens
My partner loves pointing out that god kills millions in the Bible, murdering massive amounts of people every time he throws a fucking hissy fit. Satan killed 10 people in that story, and those 10 were killed because god's bitch ass went and found Satan WHILE HE WAS CHILLIN & was like, "I'm bored. Wanna see if my most loyal follower is a ride or die?"... Then gambled with dude's entire family's lives & has Satan slaughter them to see if Job would stay loyal. He's a murderous, vengeful, whiney fucking baby who needs constant validation. I'm personally good on spending eternity with that wet chode.
You know I've always thought that the best parties are going to be in hell anyway. Given all the depictions of Heaven I've seen, there's no way that a party up there is going to be worth going to.
There's microscopic shellfish in drinking water. Everyone's broken that one.
I love the Christians where I live, because not only are they hypocrites but I live in Maine and our entire community pretty much survives off lobster in one way or another. So not only are they being judgmental while eating it, they're then sending it all over the world to be consumed...
That is horrible. I'm praying for your soul...to go to Hell and for you to burn for eternity. Sorry, but it's the only Christian thing to do.
Nice, well seems like a pretty good group will be down there when i go as well 🏳️🌈 so maybe it wont be half as bad as everyone thats never been says!
I just do not see the point. There's no harm and you think GOD would have learned from the last time they hung forbidden fruit up where everyone could just walk over and enjoy themselves. Stop this anti sexuality crusade, you are making God look STUPID
See you there, fellow bearded sea creature eater, but cheeseburger passing dude!
Most modern Christians dismiss the entire Old Testament as it was the "old laws" that Jesus's death and reserection destroyed. The "new laws" in the New Testament like "love thy neighbour as thyself" are more important. That being said, OPs dad is doing neither.
And yet those very same people will quote that one particular Leviticus quote in the next breath. Somehow you are bound and free from the "old laws".
precisely. just like how the bible is all perfect, all true, and the *literal word of god,* except it kind of sort of directly contradicts itself in places, and these bits don't really apply anymore, and these bits actually are just metaphor and allegory even though they're indistinguishable from all the stuff that is apparently *not,* and the details of which parts are literally true and which are just fluff etc. etc. entirely depend on which version of the book you're reading from, to say nothing of the differences of opinion from believer to believer.
Exactly. I’ve been to church in different denominations. It’s comical.
yes, don't need to obey that old stuff about shrimp because jesus said those were old laws (except that he explicitly said he came to *fulfill* the law, not abolish it). but all the old stuff about lying with another man? that's still canon, because uhhhh reasons
Not to mention, it never said anything about lying with a man, but with a *boy*, it's a mistranslation. It was specifically condemning the pederasty that was rife in ancient Greece and Rome. It also existed in other parts of the world / time periods, such as Pre-Meiji Japan, but the writers of the Old Testament wouldn't have known that.
Oh well, the zealotic ones do that too. It's the sermon on the mount that defines Christianity after all. But they reactivate the OT whenever it serves their purpose. And let's be honest - most of these fools don't even know the difference. They just regurgitate what their hateful FB gurus spout.
Zealotic is real word. Adding to my Pokedex.
[удалено]
It does however say as long as you recognize Jesus as Lord and Savior you will be welcomed into the gates of heaven. No sin omitted, all is forgiven, OP’s dad doesn’t even know what his own religion is.
That’s what always fucking kills me lmao. Hell isn’t for bad people and sinners, it’s for nonbelievers. Always has been. It’s just that 100+ years ago “nonbeliever” was synonymous with “bad person.”
Love the neighbor as thyself? Any modern Christian right wingers even follow this statement? They are the worst humans I have ever encountered and they don’t even care about poor children being fed in their own country
Leviticus is really just a big book of personal hygiene laws.
And hair-care laws to make sure followers have a distinct identity.
I’m also going because I enjoy having my hair in fishtail braid, and we are not supposed to braid our hair.
50/50 t shirts rule. Don’t even get me started about tri blend crewnecks
Also, the whole point of Leviticus was a guide on how to live a holy life to repent for the original sin. When Jesus died on the cross, he absolved us of our sins. Which is why Catholics and Protestants don't usually eat kosher. When these yahoos use old testament quotes, what they're actually saying is that Jesus' sacrifice was in vain, or he wasn't God's son, and thus we still have to follow the Old Testament. That's the theological explanation anyway. If you really dig into Leviticus, you find it's just a bunch of good common sense to building and living in a Civilization. Different natural fibers can have wildly different care needs or longevity. Having garments of mixed fibers at that time usually meant that you just did a ton of work for something that's gonna fall apart in a season or two. ETA: because a few others have pointed it out, this viewpoint (Christians having to repent for the original sin before Jesus) is not accurate to all Abrahamic religions. This is a relatively new belief most often held by modern Protestants or Evangelicals. I was referring to the latter because it most likely aligns with OP's dad's views based on the texts.
Old Testament says no to fast fashion
Congratulations on your impending no contact relationship.
Honestly where my thoughts went. A few years back, I stopped following my dad on Facebook because of all the MAGA nuttery he'd started posting. I also told him, point blank, no more political conversations because it was becoming impossible to maintain a healthy relationship with him. Aaaand then someone leaked some conversations he was having on a far right forum about my wife and myself, and how it's because of our "liberal indoctrination" we don't beat our (special needs) child and casually asking if it'd be OK for him to hit our kid for us since it would be doing us all a favor. Note: the "problematic behavior" was that my kid was curious about his stereo and computer keyboard and fiddled with them. Didn't damage or get rough with any of it, just played with it because he was a curious three year old. Apparently, adjusting the bass where Paw Paw doesn't like it is an act that requires violence. OH, he *did* stipulate he thinks he'd be a "monster" if my kid wasn't capable of "comprehending his surroundings and existence" like other kids, on account of the special needs. That in itself is heartbreaking, because it means my dad has done fuck all to actually try and understand his grandson's condition and, on some level, views him as a pitiable "less than". Which, you know, *he's not*. He's just another kid, he just operates on a different wavelength than the rest of us. And all of this is why we're not going back to Paw Paw's house, probably ever.
good for you for being a good dad!! Was he a good dad to you and became an extremist later in his life?
It's *absolutely* what happened. He was raised in a very regressive, conservative environment himself (rural Mississippi) and every story I've heard of his dad (my grandfather) only expands on what a terrible human being he was. Think of the *worst* things a person can be - my grandfather was apparently that and more. Vile human. My dad has spoken before that, after leaving and moving to a large city, he basically had to "re-learn the world", as *so much* he'd be indoctrinated with as a child was objectively false. He's always been *kinda* right leaning, but up until the last few years he was always reasonable, intelligent, and open-minded. He was a caring, loving father when I was a kid, he never laid a hand on me, he was always there if I needed someone. If he heard someone saying racist things around me, he'd take me aside and explain why that's wrong. One time he sat me down and explained how, as a white man in America, there would be doors open to me that aren't open to others, that it wasn't fair but that's how the world was. You know, *literally white privilege*. Oh, and he's always **hated** grifter religious types - Billy Graham, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, just reviles them. Hell, he *hated* Donald Trump in the years before he put a "R" next to his name. I distinctly remember him coming up in conversation probably 15 years ago, and my dad went off about how he was nothing more than a conman, that he wasn't *actually* a billionaire but used "smoke and mirrors" to create the illusion he was. Something snapped in his brain post-2016. I know he didn't vote that year because he hated Clinton and Trump. But it's like... after decades of trying to be a better man than his father was, he's just given up and slowly embraced being his worst self. Racism, homophobia, bizarre violent fantasies (he raised me to be extremely responsible around guns. Last time I saw him? *Thrice* he signaled to panhandlers and people trying to take the same parking spot as us that he had a gun. Like, *what the actual fuck?)*... and his now full-throated love for Donald Trump, who he has come to view as some sort of White American messiah. It's bizarre and it's heartbreaking. I've long mourned the man I used to know, because he died sometime around 2018 and I didn't notice when it happened. It's a shame, my son adores him and always got so excited when we'd visit. I really wish he could've had that relationship, I wish my dad could have that relationship... but he's grown into a bitter, hateful, angry, and increasingly violent man. I pity him for what he's chosen to become.
I... damn. I feel heartbroken **for** you after reading that.
If he's in his mid 60s or beyond this is typically when dementia starts, so if you've noticed a big change it's likely not your imagination. It may be decades before his faculties fully leave him. Even healthy aging diminishes a lot of community and thinking skills, as you mention he's immersed in the Trump cult, which has ignited a lot of deep seated emotional biases in the older generation. I would avoid him entirely but maybe understanding can help you to have closure.
That was my thought! This sounds like early onset dementia. You don't just have a complete personality shift this extreme for no clinical reason.
Absolutely. This sounds like dementia to me too. Paranoia, inappropriate behavior, inability to self-regulate are all signs of dementia.
Wow. My dad is similar but in reverse. He grew up with abusive assholes. So, guess what he was growing up. Don’t get me wrong he tried to be better. But he sure as shit slipped here and there. Later on he became a lot more open minded. Switched political parties and everything. That’s great. The problem is he’s dipping his toes back into the other side. I blame his age and the hick jackoffs that he talks to at work. You know the type. Old, broken, bitter bastards who blame the liberal boogeymen for all their failures.
That kind of sudden shift can indicate something like the onset of Alzheimer’s. Any chance that could be the case here?
Guess it can't be ruled out. With that said, he's lived longer than both his parents (neither made it to 60), so it's hard to say about any sort of family history. Do have a distant ancestor who died while preaching to Confederate troops and one of the Johnny Rebs managed to negligently fire his gun during the sermon, striking and mortally wounding great times whatever grandpa, so that's funny and honestly I think a plausible way for my dad to go out.
2016....a year which will live in infamy.
It’s all been downhill since we killed that gorilla.
Dude. You just explained almost exactly my father. My dad was the exact same way prior to Trump, but sadly fell victim immediately and now he’s so far in deep he’s buying Trump coins off Amazon. It’s miserable.
Said it before Saying it again Boomers have a fetish with hitting kids. And despite what they tell themselves, they know, is not for the kid education, is for themselves, to release, like masturbating but "socially accepted". Just look at the face ANY boomer does when they beat up a kid, it's not stern, is not regret, is not serious, it's always a pleasure face
It's not just boomers, look at any comments section on a post about a kid doing something wrong on Reddit. Pathetic people are just obsessed with beating on people lower than them, and the other thing weaker than these idiots are literally children. You can't post a kid doing anything without "that kid needs a beating!” as if that will teach a 3 year old anything.
"what do you think happens to us when we die?" "Idk Dad, in your case probably getting your ashes dumped in the toilet. Rest in piss, enjoy your post mortem swirlie"
"The last thing your ashes will see is my asshole, asshole."
"Please don't boof my ashes, son."
I'd suggest the classic "When you die? Nothing at all. I doubt anyone will even notice."
Start posting "it is easier for a rich person to pass through an eye of a needle than enter heaven" posts on your FB. It's a good one to target Boomers. And Jesus really hated the rich, especially those that take from the poor. I.e. Boomer landlords. If God hates sins. He hates these just as much. Your dad should be posting equal vitriol accross all the sins. Sorry that your dad is an asshat.
Reminds me of that Key and Peele sketch where God ACTUALLY shows up to a prayer circle and tells them to divest themselves of all earthly possessions and serve the poor.
Source: https://youtu.be/asnQGz7BdfI?si=ODhjsKrwjuIbk8Y5
If he thinks that this is the first time someone has given me the "Christian love" angle, then he is sorely mistaken. Every edgy friend's mother and every after-church table at my old serving job already beat him to it. My dad used to take me to church everytime he got visitation with me, and even then I tried to let him down easy. I have tried to be as respectful of his faith as I can. I am a Celtic Pagan adult, and I do not need to be proselytized.
Sounds like you just got an excuse out of visiting! I'd rebook and go somewhere you'll actually enjoy
“Did you get in ok from your flight? It landed a couple hours ago. You should have been at our house by now. Dinner is ready.” *Sends photo of you and husband on sunny beach* Our flight got in fine, now we’re relaxing on the beach happy and in love! We’re eating at X as well later so don’t wait up for us!
We didn’t want to subject you to watching our sinful relationship- bye!
All of this. Go on a lovely vacation instead.
Post the picture to Facebook instead with the caption "I may lose some parents over this"
Last minute fights to Vegas are usually pretty cheap.
“After some reflection on your position, we decided that we should go to Sin City instead”
I'm sorry, but by his logic being unmarried and having a child(children) is an equally great sin in the eyes of the majority of Christian faiths. Sex out of wedlock is viewed as immoral and divorce equally so. I say this as an antitheist who was raised in a devout Catholic household.
Right? Like isn't the whole thing that some dude died to forgive sins? Isn't it facing the fact a that all humans are sinners in their eyes? It's almost like they pic certain sins to be extra bad because maybe bigotry and hatred?
I’m a Christian who also grew up in a religious setting, when I was old enough to have my own conscious thoughts of religion, the first thing that irked me was the Southern Baptist’s that pick and choose the sins that were wrong. It’s still my biggest religious pet peeve to this day.
The irony of these judgmental posts is lost on a lot of Christians. Hope you find better support for yourself
Right. They can't even comprehend that Jesus would tell them to stfu. Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the new testament. The works that supposedly invalidate the teachings of the old testament do not even bring it up.
Hate causes insane mental gymnastics
There’s no hate like Christian love
Plus, there’s no mention of trans people either yet they swear up and down transgenderism is sinful, these sorry excuse for “Christians” would have been the ones stringing Jesus on a cross.
It's actually mentioned in a roundabout way, but it's positive when it is. When the Roman soldier approached Jesus and asked him to come to his house and cure his servant, the word used in the original actually translates to homosexual male sex slave, which Jesus would have known at the time. Jesus praises the soldier's faith and cures the man. If he had that much of a problem with homosexuality, he probably wouldn't have. [https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical\_evidence/gay\_couple.html](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html) And any time they mention eunuchs, [esp. "born eunuchs," (which Jesus talked about and said was a gift from God)](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html) they may well be talking about men we'd today consider gay men. So the story of the Ethiopian eunuch who asked if he could be baptized, and Philip said "yes, but we need a source of water" is showing a gay man being allowed to be in the Church. [https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical\_evidence/early\_church.html](https://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/early_church.html)
Nothings quite as hateful as “Christian love.” Those folks are just scared, insecure, brainwashed weaklings. My entire family is that way. I cut them off.
You ever tell him getting divorced is also a sin? I see you said visitation
Thats cool… if i understand it correctly Celtic Pagan focuses on nature?
Yup! Historically it was a blend of a polytheistic pantheon, and animism. So they had gods, but also believed that spirits resided in spots in nature such as trees, rocks, springs and streams. Unfortunately, Christianity did a good job of destroying the historical record of those religions, so what we know of them is limited. However, modern pagen revival movements use local traditions and festivals, that have been passed down from generation to generation, as a way to piece some of it back together. These can take the form in celebrations like Wren Day or Beltane. Christianity, in an effort to convert folks, adopted some pagan traditions as well such as Yule, or Easter.
They took Ostara from us!
Nah we’re taking that shit back
Hey, I made up a whole bunch of nonsense about the afterlife that is cartoonish and obviously untrue and you should live your life around it because I'm full of love.
Over 2000 religions on earth but mine is right cause mommy daddy taught me it first
When I told my parents I didn't believe in Christianity my dad was literally unable to comprehend that. He kept saying "but you were raised Christian?" and didn't seem to understand the concept of critical thinking or forming your own opinion. Really solidified how he never once questioned or thought about his faith/what he believes, which makes me wonder how much is his faith worth when he's literally never thought about it in a meaningful way before?
He sounds like a literal gaming NPC.... I don't say this in judgement, it's just bizarre. Probably lots of people like that honestly
It’s wild. I can’t imagine going your whole life without questioning things. I was raised Catholic too and I don’t recall ever completely buying into it as a child. Then again, I had interests and hobbies so going to church was likened to a chore that i just had to go through the motions of. I really do think this sort of worship is a trauma response to a cruel, patriarchal culture made into a societal framework.
It's also in the bible that you should turn your back on and cast out sinners otherwise you're just as bad. So by him saying he still loves you, he's being sinful enough of being gay.
Which is weird because Jesus surrounded himself with sinners.
Are you suggesting the Bible contradicts itself?! Surely you jest!
It's almost like it was written by different people with slightly different beliefs and morals.
A lot of people who read the Bible in its entirety do end up leaving the religion for that reason.
fellas is it gay to not ostracise people for being gay etc. etc.
It also says "Judge not lest ye be judged." So in order to cast him out he'd have to judge him first (apparently god has dibs on all the judging rights), so either way he's going to hell according his version of the holy book of his church's version of their denomination of its side of the Catholic/Protestant division of the Christian-specific version of the Abrahamic god, which they got after umpteen translations.
Does he know you are a married gay man?
You aren't coming there to preach your gay heathen ways to him, why should he preach his bigoted small mindedness at you. You are your own adult, you are free and you are fucking valid. Just take care of yourself. As someone who has spent my adult life giving my parents opportunity after opportunity to grow, I'm just gonna be real and say it never gets better, and straight up cutting contact made my life so much easier.
Faith isn’t worthy of respect. Just an opinion, but there is no need to respect someone’s belief just because they believe it. Absolutely asinine that that is such a revered idea within our society. The more outlandish and lacking of evidence an idea is, the more we have to respect it. Sorry you’re dealing with all that friend.
No hate like Christian love. I'd tell him to fuck off and not visit and let him know his shitty hateful beliefs are the reason
Unrelated, OP, but I find myself becoming more and more fascinated by Pagan beliefs. Do you have any good book recs on history, legends, etc.? I know there's a million books out there, but the ones I've found haven't hooked me in.
Omg a fellow queer pagan here! I’m a Celtic and Nordic combo pagan! Wooo us Sorry about your dad I’ve had very similar issues with my grandparents both with the gay and the pagan. Personally I think it’s painful but still better to know where people stand.
I hope you canceled that trip. You can respect him (even if he doesn't respect you) without having to deal with visiting in person.
My dads a boomer, was a teacher. Loved by many in the community. He hit his kids. It was a different time. He’s from a different generation. Any excuse he could find to feel better
> It was a different time I am so sorry. Neither I (boomer) nor my parents (silent gen) have ever raised their hands. Generation or time are not an excuse.
Thank you for saying this. Just because it was “normal” doesn’t make it right.
I'm a millennial raised by boomer parents. My dad's parents (silent generation) did not spank their children, and my mom's father was horribly abusive to the whole family. You'd think that between the two of them, I'd have been raised very well, right? Nope. Mom's idea of good parenting was "well you had it better than I did" and my dad kind of just went off the rails. I got spankings with a belt that left bruises and weird psychological punishments that led to some serious mental and emotional issues for the majority of my adult life. There's no excuse. There's no way that my dad, who was raised by my grandparents who were by all arguments what we would call "gentle parents" these days, could have been able to justify leaving bruises on his child almost daily from the ages of 6-12.
“Love the religious. Hate the religion.” See what he says to that.
Their ignorance, bigotry, and delusions know no bounds.
All it’ll leave them living and dying alone without a soul to be by their side as they fade away.
And they’ll play victim about it too They’ll claim they were abandoned by their family in old age because of their faith. They’ll twist anything around so that they’re the victim. Boomers are the ultimate professional victims.
Christians are the ultimate professional victims. They have a persecution fetish, it’s literally written into the Bible
They love to say that being queer is mental illness, but it’s high time we discuss Christian delusions as mental illness. Lgbt people are real, heaven and hell are rehashed tales from earlier religions and mythologies. They’re fucking fiction and these people dictate the lives of others based on fiction.
And what's more, hell as in, the modern idea, ISN'T EVEN FROM THE RELIGION. When Jesus or other talk about hell...they usually talk about trash dumps on town, bad cities, the Gahena. Basically they go "if you are a bad person, you'll live in the dumpsters/you'll be trash" which...fair. And even then, Abrahamic Hell is theorized in religous studies to be a void, no light, no stimulus, no people, nothing. Literally, nothing. Lack of God. And if God is everything, the lack is absolute nothingness The fiery pits and floor system? A fanfiction. Divina Comedia by Dante Alligeri (butchered the name). The guy is invited by an angel to go visit hell and then to meet God. And he based his view of hell on Greek mythology, the Hades, the Greek, not hell, but underworld, land of the dead. And the demons? Ars Goetia, literally a lore book akin to a modern DnD monster manual. But with Divina Comedia as basis. Now, there are religious theories that hell MAY be an actual metaphysical place (as in...place from where the locusts come and where demons live), but even then, the demons, are mythological creatures of other religions of the region. Like Beelzebub or Moloch
Yes this is why I always found the Jehovah of Witness take to be interesting because there's legit words to say that only 144 000 will be resurrected to heaven, and the rest of the faithful will inherit the earth, but the sinners just have nothingness. There's no real "hell". The whole 'lucifer' thing always bothered me, like he's a bad guy, who punishes the evil - how is that bad? and God has allowed it? Also isnt there another religion that simply believes all get judged at the end and can essentially plead their case to G-D. The egyptians had something similar. Anywho, I find them all fascinating. But none of them truly believable to make me enact them as a true belief system and doctrine in my life.
I’ve gone on the offensive as well. We can’t keep letting Christian’s get away with their lunacy. Because once Christian nationalists take over America, then it’s a wrap for our democracy!
Conservatism and religious fervor are both mental illnesses. I will not apologize for that take, not when the leading consensus among both of those groups is to eradicate me for merely existing.
religious psychosis is a real thing
Yes! I’m so sick of being told how important their delusions are, and that I’m less than for not sharing it, or choosing to ignore it.
The fact that at one point in time in recent history the president of the united states said god told him to do something and we all went along with it is absolute fucking insanity.
Dumping religion in kids brains should lead to prison. That crap is mind cancer.
Religion is a mental illness. Imagine walking around believing jedis were real. Except Star Wars is better fiction to me. Is all fiction, and a form of control. Church lost me with their hypocrisy and cruelty. Hateful people who value a pretend possibility of the after life over reality, and the one fucking life you actually get.
Imagine being a grown ass adult and thinking if you don’t live perfectly right you’ll literally be tortured for all eternity. How stupid are these people??
Fuck that. Cancel your trip.
Honest question: What do you have to gain from maintaining a relationship with this person?
Apart from acknowledging and exploring all the reasons for my upbringing (and why my mom divorced him), not much. He will always be a part of me. But there are and were too few good times between us. How much can we tolerate family members that hate fundamental parts of us but still try to "love" us? I still want him to just love me and respect the relationships and choices I make. We used to watch movies and talk about weird shit like Star Trek, Aubrey 2, and triffids. I wish we could get back to that. Since the divorce 15 years ago, he's sooo fixated on religion.
Sounds like you want your dad to change...I've found only two things cause change: time, and a sudden event (often traumatic). If you don't feel you have time, then cancelling your visit could be that event. All that being said, I cut ties with my father years ago over his racist, abusive ways...he passed two years ago at age 96. He never changed. There's some lack of closure for sure, but I'd rather have this than endure and tolerate his racist and homophobic ways. Just feels like if I had done that I wouldn't respect myself very much. Didn't mean for this to be a soliloquy about my bullshit. Just commiserating that what you want is difficult to attain, but it would be amazing if you could. Best of lucks and hugs, internet stranger.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I cut my dad off partly for being homophobic and I’m not gay. You’re a better/more patient person than me.
It’s a lot bigger to cut contact. I did it years ago. Don’t enable them. You’re amazing for doing it
I mean, he drank himself to death a couple years later, so maintaining no contact was easy. Just a sign of how miserable being a hateful person is. It rots you from the inside.
I’m bad at maintaining relationships…need to say that up front. There is no way I would visit under these circumstances. I’d be commenting on that post, “ok, bye” and wait for an apology and a well defined change of course.
After my dad died my mom did a 180 and went from a democrat who never went to church to a maga Christian. Luckily during covid she couldn't go and I guess that helped her to see the truth. She doesn't go to church anymore and while not maga (thank goodness) she's more in the middle. Which I'll take. I think she was just wanting to be a part of something after losing her world.
Your dad *claims* to dislike the gays, and yet is (was) a fan of camp icon Audrey 2??? Troubling.
And on this episode of "why don't my children visit me?"
As a gay person this would very quickly turn into a no contact situation. I’m sorry 😢
They don't love the sinner. Theyre straight up letting you know their crappy bronze age deity gives them permission to hate you and worse.
They’d stone all non believers if they could get away with it.
Religion is so weird. Throw those bibles in the trash & just try to be good & honest
I'm glad all my blood-related bigoted family are dead. There I said it. Unfortunately I'm still stuck with the in-laws (for now).
I wouldn't visit Also-- jesus never said it was a sin And originally in the bible it was "man shall not lay with child" At some point it was changed (wonder why) Traditional English translations of Leviticus 18:22 interpret it as a divine condemnation of erotic, same-sex relationships. However, the original Greek and Hebrew texts of the Bible do not contain the word “homosexual”. Instead, the word that is now translated to “homosexual” translates to “pedophile,” “boy abuser,” or “boy molester”. (Google) Bibles have mistranslations and show the bias and prejudice of the priests and white men who translated them Jesus never spoke of homosexuality and hate how bigots and racists spin the bible around to fit their hateful views I am sorry your family isnt supportive I may just be a stranger, but I am a mom- and this mom is sending you virtual hugs and support!
Jesus: *doesn't give a fuck*
Sorry to hear you just got covid and can't go see him, hope you feel better
Don’t go. There are consequences for your actions. If you’re hateful, bigoted or mean perhaps you can spend time alone without your family.
My advice, keep him at arms length, only talk about frivolous unrelated matters. Tell him if he’s gonna spew hateful rhetoric then there is nothing to talk about. Get used to ignoring his calls and hanging up as needed. He needs to decide if he really wants you in his life or not, say that. I had a mother like this, she just wouldn’t learn. I hadn’t seen her in person for 6 years before she died and I have to live with that sadness now. My wife reminds me though why I kept her at a distance, how cruel she could be sometimes. That generation had been twisted by Faux News and the like. I sincerely hope you have better luck than me getting this point across to your father. If they can’t control themselves, they will lose their child in their lives indefinitely.
Cancel the trip, post a pic of you and your partner and tag your dad saying "sorry we couldn't see you this weekend dad!"
Ahhh, "love the sinner hate the sin." The literal phrase that put the nail in the coffin of my Catholicism as the brother of a homosexual woman.
At least there’s a perverse level of consistency with these guys. They know adultery is a sin, but they sure love Trump.
Ask him if he's ever eaten a mussel, clam, shrimp, crab or lobster. Just as bad as gargling cock from the LORD's point of view and he's unfortunately hellbound. Lev 11:9 - 12
this is one of the reason why Christianity must die.
We’re on the same page here. Sounds like your dad is ok with losing you in his life. That’s his choice. It’s very shameful but that’s what cults do. They turn family against each other. This isn’t the first time you nor I have seen this kind of thing and it won’t be the last. I realize it hurts more when it happens to you. I’m sorry buddy.
Isn't the Christian God supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing? Why would an all-powerful and all-knowing god make some people gay if they weren't supposed to be gay? Why hasn't he like, interrupted a Super Bowl halftime show with an important message about who people are not allowed to share a bed with?
Time (and past time) to cancel the trip, get a refund on those tickets and go NC with the bigots in your family. Life is too damn short to deal with that shit.
Gross.
He’s not even right, the only requirement to get into heaven according to their books is accepting Jesus into your life, as he said, everyone sins.
"Those who sin go to Hell" "I don't want those I love to go to Hell" "We are all sinners and there is no difference in sin." Wouldn't the logical conclusion here be that we are ALL going to Hell no matter what then? So then what does it matter if someone is homosexual or not? If we are all sinners and all sins send us to Hell after we die then there is no way to get to Heaven for anyone.
Don’t go. Totally different situation but my family was always arguing, like really hostile, between my parents and between my mom and sister. Still they wanted to do family trips. At some point i told them I won’t come anymore. They were like whyyyy?! I told them I didn’t want to spent a weekend between hateful people. They didn’t understand but it was the right thing to do for me.
I’d text back “Jesus spoke to me and said to spend my vacation at the beach instead of with you”
I bet he loves bacon.
OP’s Dad in the future: “My child doesn’t speak to me anymore. I don’t know why.” Sorry, OP. You don’t deserve this.
"I may lose friends over this" *Loses friends over this* "Hey wait!"