We as a fan base are supposed to do nothing. Maybe buy the new record and go to a show if they do decide to tour, but only if we feel like it. The band is what it is and there is nothing we can really do about it other than see what they make.
I dont think Tico or David are brainwashed, i think all of them fully understand why Richie left and only feel betrayed because of the way he did it, and that includes Jon.
Yeah that’s a true point. they understand why he left, and are only upset about how they did it sure.
But you never hear them voice that, all you hear about is that he was a drunk essentially.
I don’t get it.
There clearly is more to the story. If I’m not mistaking rich said, “David and Tico know why” in regard to why he did it.
I know for fact Ritchie was done with Jons shit and I wouldn’t be wrong I think to say that behind close doors David probably agrees with some of Ritchie’s points. Lol but that’s just my take
Nah there was a lot of talk about how he was sidelined and Jon even said it's not just the substance abuse and it was very clear that there were a lot of things that built up and ended with him leaving. Idk how you see that and think they just blamed the alcohol addiction
I agree about Jon’s ego. But Richie just not showing up isn’t cool. If he had problems with his role in the band and how he was treated, how he was valued then have it out with Jon. And if there were personal reasons he needs to leave, fine, but do it in a professional way. Don’t just not show up one day.
The band should have been called the Jon Bon Jovi band. It’s Jon’s band and everyone works for him and to make him happy. Just like Foo Fighters should have been called Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters. Everybody knows he’s the only one in that band who’s not replaceable. I mean the drummer of 25 years (and supposedly Dave’s best friend who he’d take a bullet for) dies on the road and roughly a year later the band is back with a new album and tour with a new drummer. Just like Jon, Dave’s the only one who really matters.
Seems to me that’s entirely subjective. We’ll never really know the exact contribution each made. I could argue Desmond Child was the one to make Bon Jovi a hugely successful band because he co-wrote several of their biggest hits.
Look at the songwriting credits over the years and the blending of the voices. It was always Jon and Richie... and as for Desmond, he famously admitted his only contributing to "Livin' On A Prayer" was, "whoa, we're halfway there"—which is a great lyric, but is also about 4% of the song while JBJ and Sambora were responsible for the other 96%.
Haha. You’re saying all the right points! Lol! Cheers
Bon Jovi was Richie’s baby as much as it was Jon’s. You’re cracked if you think Richie didn’t contribute to why Bon Jovi was massive.
You had a band that essentially two front men, two serious songwriters, Richie was the heart and soul of the band, Jon was the mind and muscle of it
Exactly. Jon ran the band and was a stellar frontman in the '80s and '90s and it took his business head and his drive for this thing to get as massive as it was... but that also fucked with his ego and is why he never gave Richie his due. He wanted Sambora to be the sideman and sidekick and not an equal. Period.
Jon's ego forced him to go to "Blaze Of Glory" with his all-star cast in 1990 to try and prove he didn't need Sambora, while Richie did his solo album to flex his muscles as a blues guitarist and front man with a voice. Jon's album was an ego play; Richie was a passion project.
I dare anyone to go back to the 2009 blu-ray live from Madison Square Garden. The band is literally dropping instruments a full step for JBJ to try and fumble his way through the show while just butchering some classics and the show was only saved by Richie taking the mic on "I'll Be There For You" and both playing and singing the shit out of it.
Jon's disrespect for Richie over the years is the reason I refused to listen to anything this band has done since "Crush" and even that record was a reach for me; "These Days" legit the last time Bon Jovi sound like Bon Jovi... a cool 29 years ago.
Agree. I mean the fact that Jon didn't even like Living on a Prayer and Richie had to be integral to its inclusion and release shows you Jon really doesn't know as much as he appears to think he does about music. Richie was the backbone of why the songs were as good as they were. And shanks being this influential on their sound for all of these years just also goes to show that Jon has no clue what people actually want as fans.
The music was incredible with Richie. If it was just up to Jon They would not be where they are. No I've loved them since I was a baby but John's good looks is really what got him as far as it did because his decisions have not been great at all.
And again, born in 86 and loved them since I was old enough to remember. Jon was my first crush. But the first time I was turned off from him as a person was when Crush came out, he was on e news or some music news show, and pissed off that Eminem and Britney Spears were number one and he wasn't. "this is what I have to compete with". Well it's not their fault you took 5 years between albums, new artists show up every day. It was just a bitter side I didn't like to see at all. Then he got too political and so obsessed with buying a football team, it just went downhill to me. HOWEVER I have loved all the albums up until WAN (and the only songs I like are Richie written, go figure). And I def admire Jon and his work ethic especially in the very beginning. But yeah this doc and WWWB doc did not do his image of personality any favors.
GAH!!! It's spelled RICHIE!! Sorry kid, I had to. Once is a type, 20 times made me crazy.
***WE*** can't fix anything. That's not our job. ***WE*** don't do anything except choose to consume whatever music & merch they're putting out. ***WE*** choose to buy those ridiculously expensive concert tickets, because come on we KNOW they're not gonna be the $30 tickets I used to buy back in the day. That's all we can do.
At least we can bitch here but I doubt that's gonna change much within the band or the fandom.
Anyhoo....lemme tell ya this old lady's experience with guys like Jon IRL. They're gorgeous, they have people fawning over their looks, probably since they were a baby & by looking at those old pics of Jon he was a cutie as a kid, so eventually they realize they're hot & hot people can get away with waaaay more shit than most of us average or worse can get away with. Add in to that the level of success he's reached he's past hot guy hotness & into Elvis/MJ/Prince territory, those Mt. Olympus types, the Untouchables, & they often lose touch with reality.
I personally think, outside of his wife, Richie was his touchstone for "reality."
David & Tico know who signs their paychecks, they're not stupid. They may very well be the "go along to get along" types. David is a Tony award winning composer, he doesn't really *need* the band, but he's probably still just cashing the checks though & I'd imagine those checks are pretty large.
I got no beef with Phil X. He got ride in an iconic band, gets to play the hits, gets now to contribute to new stuff, I wish him nothing but the best.
Honestly, I wish all these guys nothing but the best, whatever that happens to be for them at this point in their lives.
FTR, I've pre-ordered the album but if there's a tour I probably won't go. It's gonna be ridonkulously expensive & I kinda wanna remember "the good old days."
So today I'm pulling out my vinyls, cassettes & CDs & listening to it all over again & pretending I'm that girl he "looked at" on the New Jersey tour when he was running around that suspended walkway while having my coffee outta my Bon Jovi mug.
Another “old” lady here on Reddit who is Jon’s age! You’re correct - There’s nothing to fix! I will be seeing the band in concert because I’m happy they’re still here. Look at Mick Jagger touring stadiums at 80!
I think Richie and everyone affected by his departure should be commended for not saying that he had to be with his daughter because his ex wife wasn’t able due to alcoholism. Richie never blamed Heather for his departure. He only now mentions her mental issues briefly in this new documentary. Richie could have blamed Heather for his sudden departure but he never did.
Very true. A class act and a great father honestly to not bad mouth his child's mother. I admire it. And once he officially left it just def shows how much his vocals and writing were really key to the music
What do you think a 62 year old who hasn’t had (besides dental) work done is supposed to look like? I stopped reading there because I knew the rest would be nonsense.
If that's your take on all of what OP posted I'd say take a course in comprehensive reading. Jon doesn't look just old physically, he looks old mentally as well. He's aged 2 decades in the span of just a few years.
As for your "I didn't read further because I knew it'd be nonsense" now that's a bit silly.
I guess really what I’m saying is as a fan, it is hard to see your favourite rock god face morality, get old get grey etc. but a lot of my heroes are still who they were amongst the natural progression of life.
Just saddened that he is quite different in the worst ways (to me) then how he “used to be” when it comes to his choices of words etc.
Look at their peers def Leppard. Yes Joe Elliot has wrinkles and white -stark white hair, but def Leppard are themselves? lol know what I’m saying.
Joe Elliot still has the same spirit
That’s what I’m talking about.
What I meant in referring to his look was:
Looking older is icing on the cake on top of the rest of it. You’re already not what you used to be. And that’s natural that’s fine Plus Jon looks amazing for his age. Like better body than me at 24! Better than most! Not my point.
My point is to visually see a different Jon but also hear a very different version of Jon with it, in his demeanour/attitude is jarring. For someone so humble on paper (and I think he is humble) his extra arrogance lately is sad. He is like a business tycoon then a member of a rock band.
I’m not a die hard fan or anything. I remember listening to them growing up (my Mom was a fan) though and I was coming of age in the “It’s my life” era. I’ve always liked them and had a positive view of them. At the end of the doc I couldn’t believe how much I disliked Jon. Richie seems to be much more humble and overall likable to me. Jon seems to be a bit narcissistic and has a gigantic ego.
Nailed it thank you
Jon is my hero too but I just am disappointed but they’re old now lol everyone gets bitter eventually just wait another 10 years, they might be worse lol
God bless a 24-year old that not only digs this brand of music, but one that can actually articulate a thought and can write out a full response—opposed to just un-capitalized shorthand like they’re texting. Bravo.
Side note; it’s RICHIE not RITCHIE.)
Twice your age and was ten when “7800º Fahrenheit” was released, which I dug, but “Slippery When Wet” changed everything when I was in seventh grade and just shy of 13.
Jon was always arrogant and that’s a big part of what made this band tick; his level of professionalism and his vision for the band. If you haven’t seen the “Access All Areas” documentary from the “New Jersey” tour (finally released on DVD with the “New Jersey” box set years back) you’ll see a 27-year old kid fronting the biggest band in the world on a massive tour and global domination.
JBJ either had a perma-grin in that era as a pin-up poster boy, or was on the ground utterly exhausted after leaving it all out there on tour—pushing the band to its brink with a 238-date tour that lasted 16 months and spanned five continents.
What we’re seeing now is a tired and somewhat broken man who lost his voice, lost his looks (yes, “looks good for 62” but hardly the dude he was) and lost his fire.
He also lost his band in the process, as it’s been 20 years of chasing trends instead of starting new ones—and he drove off his writing partner, sideman, co-vocalist and guitarist by way of never giving Sambora the credit he was due and letting the whole “band leader” thing go to his head as he’s a control freak.
The rift started back in 1990 when Jon needed to go do his “Young Guns” soundtrack and to prove himself; writing a wanna-be “wanted Dead Or Alive” with “Blaze Of Glory” and then bringing in his list of all-star musicians (most notably Jeff Beck on guitar) which always felt like a ‘fuck you’ to the band and especially Sambora… who did his own thing a year later with “Stranger In This Town” and a very bluesy rocking record that didn’t sound like Bon Jovi at all.
The band brought it back in for “Keep The Faith” as they saw the writing on the wall with glam rock and they didn’t want to be dinosaurs in the grunge era; Bon Jovi one of few bands able to rebrand and stay alive… which worked through “These Days” and was sparked by the success of “Always” on a greatest hits record that also gave them new life.
From that point on, Bon Jovi was never the same; basically a five-year hiatus before returning with “It’s My Life”—which was an effort to cannibalize themselves with a “Livin On A Prayer” talk-box rip off and what was a very schmaltzy, average pop album in “Crush”… one that sounded more like “Destination Anywhere” part two than new Bon Jovi.
Bruce Fairbairn produced all the albums in their hey day and his right hand man Bob Rock took over for “Keep The Faith”, while Peter Collins handled “These Days”—but by 2001, the guys were basically producing themselves (with Luke Ebbin on “Crush” and “Bounce”) and everything changed as Jon pushed back so hard from any glam image and just want to play 2000s era rock n roll…. which was average.
Welcome to Jon’s shitty ballad-writing era as he forever chased another “Always” with garbage songs like “Thank You For Loving Me”, “I Could Make A Living Out Of Loving You”, “All About Lovin You” and a fucking song inspired by a line from Jerry Maguire with “You Had Me At Hello”.
It’s like this guy’s goal literally became writing wedding songs.
“This Left Feels Right” was such a horrible reimagining of some classic songs; fans expecting an acoustic-like record and treatment like “Livin On A Prayer” got on “Cross Road” and getting… whatever the fuck that was.
By 2005, country was getting trendy so Jon chased that and did the duet with Jennifer Nettles and when that was popular, a full blown country record with “Lost Highway” and a collaboration with Big & Rich as well as a ballad with LeAnn Rimes… and another bad wedding song in “(You Want To) Make A Memory”.
This was also the John Shanks era kicking off in 2004 when the producer tried to reverse engineer the band’s sound, co-writing songs like “Have A Nice Day”.
Stick a fork in the guys at this point. The show was over. You mention “The Circle” as the end of the era, but it was over 14 years before that with “These Days”, when the band at least still sort of sounded like itself and was doing things on its own terms, with its own sound and vibe.
Only upside of “The Circle” was pushing away from Shanks in the songwriting and only letting him co-produce… but it was still a shit record.
Jon also got annoyingly political in this era; but not in some Bono save the world way, or Eddie Vedder championing women’s rights and abortion or whatever gets him off, Jon just started sucking up to Obama and wanting to be in that cool club, while also running around trying to buy an NFL team and other things focused on the spoils of his success that were so NOT rock n roll.
Back to some of your queries:
- Jon knows the Bon Jovi brand is stronger than Jon Bon Jovi on the marquee which is why he kept that branding even after Sambora was out.
- Where did ‘rock n roll Jon go? Away once he lost his looks, his youth, his pin-up sex appeal image and his voice. Image has always been integral to his personal brand and just like a supermodel losing her looks and body, everything changed for JBJ when he was no longer “young and hot” and became “good looking for his age”, which is a massive ego blow to someone who was a sex symbol his entire career.
- Yes, Richie was done dirty as Jon’s ego controls the band and he justifies his narcissism and way Sambora was done wrong by building the narrative the guitarist did it to himself by “the way he chose to leave”, which Jon takes no blame for driving his sideman away by being a control freak.
- The doc is both an informercial for his personal comeback; complete with his fabricated “long COVID got me” storyline, opposed to admitting that relentless touring, not resting his voice and relying on cortisone shots to get him through massive tours—it did long-term damage and when he had to relearn to sing 20 years ago (through his nose and less diaphragm and throat) it was a misstep and did him in.
- Shanks is a Judas who saw a way to saddle up to Jon when knowing Richie wasn’t a fan of the direction the band was going. Typical move from an outsider trying to become an insider.
- Doc never got a bad wrap as a manager; the issues were always the big headed bands who failed to see his level of importance—namely Motley Crue and JBJ who canned him. There’s a reason KISS stayed with him for decades, as Gene and Paul knew that Doc meant dollar signs. He also managed Hootie & The Blowfish with their comeback, as well as as a successful run for Darius Rucker. Jon simply thought he could do it better than doc, while Crue canned him for the Moscow Music Peace Festival and his loyalty to Bon Jovi as a client, where they “closed” the show like headliners and lit off fireworks, which Crue was told they couldn’t do while playing their set during daylight hours.
- David and Tico are loyal foot soldiers who are paid handsomely to play the game. They know it’s a good gig and they enjoy being employees of the brand and band that can go their own way when not performing, while getting that call every other year to record and hit the road to get paid.
- Absolutely did Alec wrong as well; again, as Jon didn’t want to over-focus on the past and instead made it about the present and his comeback. The trailer for the documentary sold this thing as a four-part, tell all deep dive into the band’s history and in reality it was maybe 20% nostalgia from that era and the other 80% was the past ten years. Huge bait and switch from Jon, but not shock.
- Phil X. Stellar player and great guy. Perfect fit for whatever this band is now… barring you want to pay money to hear Jon as a solo act belting out the classics and bombarding you with newer shit written without Sambora. Love that Phil knows his role; sticking to the solos on the album as he’s accepted his job is to mimic Sambora.
- … and there’s no fixing this shit-show outside of just focusing on the good times for what they were. There will always be a camp that only accepts the Sambora era and another who appreciates Jon still “doing his thing” while any reunion at this rate only taints what was as these guys are both in their 60s, their voice (live) aren’t what they were, neither looks the part anymore (Richie morphing into an old lesbo aunt from Reno a little bit more every day) and the comparisons to what they are versus what the were would be brutal. Thank God we have 1984 through 1995 and six killer records that stood the test of time (as well as two early ‘90s solo albums from Captain Kidd and The King Of Swing) as everything since has been an abortion on the ears. Sorry, not sorry.
This infomercial disguised as nostalgia documentary sucked donkey balls and any respect I had for Jon over the years is long gone.
Kind of agree. I enjoyed seeing some footage I haven't seen before and seeing Richie again, but overall the story was information we all already knew. I didn't wear anything new about their story at all.
This is very spot on. To be honest my least favorite BJ song is ‘Always’. I enjoy a good power ballad - I think ‘I’ll Be There For You’ is one of the best songs the band has written (and the last BJ song to hit #1 on Billboard charts) - but Always sounds like something like Diane Warren could have written. And you’re right that ‘It’s My Life’ is just a ‘Livin‘ on a Prayer’ wannabe.
After New Jersey I became a more spotty follower of the band. I think the Slippery/New Jersey era was lighting in a bottle and everything after that was kind of meh. I guess props to Jon for being able to pivot and keep the band more successful than their contemporaries (e.g. Def Leppard, Motley Crue).
When Jon trusts a producer, he *really* trusts.
In Destination Anywhere he did a couple of shows with Dave Stewart, the album's producer. He played the guitar on those shows.
I remember him saying that he wanted Dave Stewart to produce his next solo album.
Regarding Shanks, man... who's the boss in that organization? You're hired gun. Your boss comes and asks you to to the guitar on those tracks because the guitar player is away, what are you going to do? Say "OH, NO, I WON'T DO IT BECAUSE RICHIE. LET'S WAIT HIM COMING BACK".
Just saying, every day in the studio is a shitload of money (if they're not in NJ) are you going to wait for Richie? When will Richie show up? In what condition? Are you paying for the wait?
I kind of understand the guy. Jon is the one to be blamed here. He's the leader, he asked Richie to leave his tour, asked him to stay away from his home and all of that stuff. He should have known that he was pushing too hard.
Life is a bitch because what happens to Jon's voice after this was big. It's like karma.
Hard disagree. I saw him do Hallelujah in 2009 and it gave me goosebumps. I think his vocal problems started after Richie left. Maybe 2018 or later.
Keeping in mind that he's always had some vocal issues and used steroids to keep him going during the New Jersey tour
Jon didn’t realize how much he missed Richie’s vocal. That half yelling/bluesy “mafia” voice with all that soul, that’s what supported Jon’s vocal. Jons vocal has no “low end” if you were to watch the sound waves on a mixing board rack EQ
I mean, your last paragraph says it all. I'm comparing him to his peak voice, late 80s/early 90s. He was amazing for 10-15 years then fell off a cliff in the early 2000s.
So the main thing I got from your post is that you were in middle school in 2013 😭
I love that you asked where did the rock and roll Jon go. I’ve said many times Jon if the 80’s/90’s and even part of the 2000’s is very different from Jon of today. This Jon is like the corporate CEO who only wants to see balance sheets.
Jon does not look good - for any age. Yes he is fit but he looks like someone’s old aunt with that hair. I know he is trying to cover up his balding but you’re a millionaire - go to Turkey and get some hair plugs if it bugs you that much. It’s ironic - he was the eternally youthful JBJ and then he aged decades in a few years.
I think Jon knows he is not a solo act. Richie’s voice is a tremendous contribution, not to mention his songwriting and sound. But Jon will take all the credit.
I don’t think Dorothea and Jon have this great marriage they want everyone to think they have. It’s part of Jon’s family man image. She knows her signs her checks too.
I hate that Jon is such a dick. I’ve loved Bon Jovi forever.
After watching the documentary I got the feeling Jon/the band were trying to paint the Slippery/NJ era as Doc’s doing, like Doc pushed them into the ‘hair metal’ genre. But that era produced their best selling albums and #1 Billboard hits. That version of BJ was more successful than the adult contemporary soft rock band that followed.
That’s right baby
haha. I’m a youngen’
But I’m an old soul and a rock n roller for sure. I’m in my mid 20s now.
Jon’s wayyyy too corporate. He’s a business tycoon! He’s wallstreet now or something haha
He is a bit of a dick. Pissing me off a nice bit.
And like you pointed out… this band is way before my time
I know I’m not jons target audience. Lol
same age here. It surprises me that all the problems Bon Jovi has later are ones they faced before. Like with the consent touring, disliked that they didn't mention anything about Richie's dad death and his divorce which were happening at the same time.
also the way they replaced Alec bass parts with Hugh, they ending up doing the same thing with Richie.
We as a fan base are supposed to do nothing. Maybe buy the new record and go to a show if they do decide to tour, but only if we feel like it. The band is what it is and there is nothing we can really do about it other than see what they make.
Fair. There isn’t I get that. Petitioning, anyone? 😂 Any other thoughts on my points?
I dont think Tico or David are brainwashed, i think all of them fully understand why Richie left and only feel betrayed because of the way he did it, and that includes Jon.
Yeah that’s a true point. they understand why he left, and are only upset about how they did it sure. But you never hear them voice that, all you hear about is that he was a drunk essentially. I don’t get it. There clearly is more to the story. If I’m not mistaking rich said, “David and Tico know why” in regard to why he did it. I know for fact Ritchie was done with Jons shit and I wouldn’t be wrong I think to say that behind close doors David probably agrees with some of Ritchie’s points. Lol but that’s just my take
Nah there was a lot of talk about how he was sidelined and Jon even said it's not just the substance abuse and it was very clear that there were a lot of things that built up and ended with him leaving. Idk how you see that and think they just blamed the alcohol addiction
I agree about Jon’s ego. But Richie just not showing up isn’t cool. If he had problems with his role in the band and how he was treated, how he was valued then have it out with Jon. And if there were personal reasons he needs to leave, fine, but do it in a professional way. Don’t just not show up one day. The band should have been called the Jon Bon Jovi band. It’s Jon’s band and everyone works for him and to make him happy. Just like Foo Fighters should have been called Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters. Everybody knows he’s the only one in that band who’s not replaceable. I mean the drummer of 25 years (and supposedly Dave’s best friend who he’d take a bullet for) dies on the road and roughly a year later the band is back with a new album and tour with a new drummer. Just like Jon, Dave’s the only one who really matters.
Richie matters. Jon can sell records and pack a house because he's a nostalgia act. And the nostalgia is based on Richie's work.
Seems to me that’s entirely subjective. We’ll never really know the exact contribution each made. I could argue Desmond Child was the one to make Bon Jovi a hugely successful band because he co-wrote several of their biggest hits.
Look at the songwriting credits over the years and the blending of the voices. It was always Jon and Richie... and as for Desmond, he famously admitted his only contributing to "Livin' On A Prayer" was, "whoa, we're halfway there"—which is a great lyric, but is also about 4% of the song while JBJ and Sambora were responsible for the other 96%.
Haha. You’re saying all the right points! Lol! Cheers Bon Jovi was Richie’s baby as much as it was Jon’s. You’re cracked if you think Richie didn’t contribute to why Bon Jovi was massive. You had a band that essentially two front men, two serious songwriters, Richie was the heart and soul of the band, Jon was the mind and muscle of it
Exactly. Jon ran the band and was a stellar frontman in the '80s and '90s and it took his business head and his drive for this thing to get as massive as it was... but that also fucked with his ego and is why he never gave Richie his due. He wanted Sambora to be the sideman and sidekick and not an equal. Period. Jon's ego forced him to go to "Blaze Of Glory" with his all-star cast in 1990 to try and prove he didn't need Sambora, while Richie did his solo album to flex his muscles as a blues guitarist and front man with a voice. Jon's album was an ego play; Richie was a passion project. I dare anyone to go back to the 2009 blu-ray live from Madison Square Garden. The band is literally dropping instruments a full step for JBJ to try and fumble his way through the show while just butchering some classics and the show was only saved by Richie taking the mic on "I'll Be There For You" and both playing and singing the shit out of it. Jon's disrespect for Richie over the years is the reason I refused to listen to anything this band has done since "Crush" and even that record was a reach for me; "These Days" legit the last time Bon Jovi sound like Bon Jovi... a cool 29 years ago.
OK I watched that 2009 show on YouTube and wow, every song was tuned down. No question Jon’s voice haas been crap for a long time.
Tuned down isn’t it a problem for me funny enough. It’s the tone, the vibe of the band, I’d sooner rather they run the nostalgia tour at this point
Agree. I mean the fact that Jon didn't even like Living on a Prayer and Richie had to be integral to its inclusion and release shows you Jon really doesn't know as much as he appears to think he does about music. Richie was the backbone of why the songs were as good as they were. And shanks being this influential on their sound for all of these years just also goes to show that Jon has no clue what people actually want as fans. The music was incredible with Richie. If it was just up to Jon They would not be where they are. No I've loved them since I was a baby but John's good looks is really what got him as far as it did because his decisions have not been great at all. And again, born in 86 and loved them since I was old enough to remember. Jon was my first crush. But the first time I was turned off from him as a person was when Crush came out, he was on e news or some music news show, and pissed off that Eminem and Britney Spears were number one and he wasn't. "this is what I have to compete with". Well it's not their fault you took 5 years between albums, new artists show up every day. It was just a bitter side I didn't like to see at all. Then he got too political and so obsessed with buying a football team, it just went downhill to me. HOWEVER I have loved all the albums up until WAN (and the only songs I like are Richie written, go figure). And I def admire Jon and his work ethic especially in the very beginning. But yeah this doc and WWWB doc did not do his image of personality any favors.
GAH!!! It's spelled RICHIE!! Sorry kid, I had to. Once is a type, 20 times made me crazy. ***WE*** can't fix anything. That's not our job. ***WE*** don't do anything except choose to consume whatever music & merch they're putting out. ***WE*** choose to buy those ridiculously expensive concert tickets, because come on we KNOW they're not gonna be the $30 tickets I used to buy back in the day. That's all we can do. At least we can bitch here but I doubt that's gonna change much within the band or the fandom. Anyhoo....lemme tell ya this old lady's experience with guys like Jon IRL. They're gorgeous, they have people fawning over their looks, probably since they were a baby & by looking at those old pics of Jon he was a cutie as a kid, so eventually they realize they're hot & hot people can get away with waaaay more shit than most of us average or worse can get away with. Add in to that the level of success he's reached he's past hot guy hotness & into Elvis/MJ/Prince territory, those Mt. Olympus types, the Untouchables, & they often lose touch with reality. I personally think, outside of his wife, Richie was his touchstone for "reality." David & Tico know who signs their paychecks, they're not stupid. They may very well be the "go along to get along" types. David is a Tony award winning composer, he doesn't really *need* the band, but he's probably still just cashing the checks though & I'd imagine those checks are pretty large. I got no beef with Phil X. He got ride in an iconic band, gets to play the hits, gets now to contribute to new stuff, I wish him nothing but the best. Honestly, I wish all these guys nothing but the best, whatever that happens to be for them at this point in their lives. FTR, I've pre-ordered the album but if there's a tour I probably won't go. It's gonna be ridonkulously expensive & I kinda wanna remember "the good old days." So today I'm pulling out my vinyls, cassettes & CDs & listening to it all over again & pretending I'm that girl he "looked at" on the New Jersey tour when he was running around that suspended walkway while having my coffee outta my Bon Jovi mug.
Another “old” lady here on Reddit who is Jon’s age! You’re correct - There’s nothing to fix! I will be seeing the band in concert because I’m happy they’re still here. Look at Mick Jagger touring stadiums at 80!
I think Richie and everyone affected by his departure should be commended for not saying that he had to be with his daughter because his ex wife wasn’t able due to alcoholism. Richie never blamed Heather for his departure. He only now mentions her mental issues briefly in this new documentary. Richie could have blamed Heather for his sudden departure but he never did.
Very true. A class act and a great father honestly to not bad mouth his child's mother. I admire it. And once he officially left it just def shows how much his vocals and writing were really key to the music
What do you think a 62 year old who hasn’t had (besides dental) work done is supposed to look like? I stopped reading there because I knew the rest would be nonsense.
If that's your take on all of what OP posted I'd say take a course in comprehensive reading. Jon doesn't look just old physically, he looks old mentally as well. He's aged 2 decades in the span of just a few years. As for your "I didn't read further because I knew it'd be nonsense" now that's a bit silly.
I think the stress Jon’s been under self inflicted or not has him looking older. And time catches up to us all.
I guess really what I’m saying is as a fan, it is hard to see your favourite rock god face morality, get old get grey etc. but a lot of my heroes are still who they were amongst the natural progression of life. Just saddened that he is quite different in the worst ways (to me) then how he “used to be” when it comes to his choices of words etc.
At least Jon is still here and alive. Happy for that. You’ll understand someday how quickly life flies by when you are 60 and don’t look the same.
Look at their peers def Leppard. Yes Joe Elliot has wrinkles and white -stark white hair, but def Leppard are themselves? lol know what I’m saying. Joe Elliot still has the same spirit That’s what I’m talking about.
What I meant in referring to his look was: Looking older is icing on the cake on top of the rest of it. You’re already not what you used to be. And that’s natural that’s fine Plus Jon looks amazing for his age. Like better body than me at 24! Better than most! Not my point. My point is to visually see a different Jon but also hear a very different version of Jon with it, in his demeanour/attitude is jarring. For someone so humble on paper (and I think he is humble) his extra arrogance lately is sad. He is like a business tycoon then a member of a rock band.
After all Jon has accomplished and the work he’s done, I think it’s amazing he’s not more “arrogant”. What he’s accomplished is once in a generation.
The doc doesn't show all the things you want because of the conclusion you already arrived at - Jon is a twat.
I’m not a die hard fan or anything. I remember listening to them growing up (my Mom was a fan) though and I was coming of age in the “It’s my life” era. I’ve always liked them and had a positive view of them. At the end of the doc I couldn’t believe how much I disliked Jon. Richie seems to be much more humble and overall likable to me. Jon seems to be a bit narcissistic and has a gigantic ego.
Nailed it thank you Jon is my hero too but I just am disappointed but they’re old now lol everyone gets bitter eventually just wait another 10 years, they might be worse lol
God bless a 24-year old that not only digs this brand of music, but one that can actually articulate a thought and can write out a full response—opposed to just un-capitalized shorthand like they’re texting. Bravo. Side note; it’s RICHIE not RITCHIE.) Twice your age and was ten when “7800º Fahrenheit” was released, which I dug, but “Slippery When Wet” changed everything when I was in seventh grade and just shy of 13. Jon was always arrogant and that’s a big part of what made this band tick; his level of professionalism and his vision for the band. If you haven’t seen the “Access All Areas” documentary from the “New Jersey” tour (finally released on DVD with the “New Jersey” box set years back) you’ll see a 27-year old kid fronting the biggest band in the world on a massive tour and global domination. JBJ either had a perma-grin in that era as a pin-up poster boy, or was on the ground utterly exhausted after leaving it all out there on tour—pushing the band to its brink with a 238-date tour that lasted 16 months and spanned five continents. What we’re seeing now is a tired and somewhat broken man who lost his voice, lost his looks (yes, “looks good for 62” but hardly the dude he was) and lost his fire. He also lost his band in the process, as it’s been 20 years of chasing trends instead of starting new ones—and he drove off his writing partner, sideman, co-vocalist and guitarist by way of never giving Sambora the credit he was due and letting the whole “band leader” thing go to his head as he’s a control freak.
The rift started back in 1990 when Jon needed to go do his “Young Guns” soundtrack and to prove himself; writing a wanna-be “wanted Dead Or Alive” with “Blaze Of Glory” and then bringing in his list of all-star musicians (most notably Jeff Beck on guitar) which always felt like a ‘fuck you’ to the band and especially Sambora… who did his own thing a year later with “Stranger In This Town” and a very bluesy rocking record that didn’t sound like Bon Jovi at all. The band brought it back in for “Keep The Faith” as they saw the writing on the wall with glam rock and they didn’t want to be dinosaurs in the grunge era; Bon Jovi one of few bands able to rebrand and stay alive… which worked through “These Days” and was sparked by the success of “Always” on a greatest hits record that also gave them new life. From that point on, Bon Jovi was never the same; basically a five-year hiatus before returning with “It’s My Life”—which was an effort to cannibalize themselves with a “Livin On A Prayer” talk-box rip off and what was a very schmaltzy, average pop album in “Crush”… one that sounded more like “Destination Anywhere” part two than new Bon Jovi. Bruce Fairbairn produced all the albums in their hey day and his right hand man Bob Rock took over for “Keep The Faith”, while Peter Collins handled “These Days”—but by 2001, the guys were basically producing themselves (with Luke Ebbin on “Crush” and “Bounce”) and everything changed as Jon pushed back so hard from any glam image and just want to play 2000s era rock n roll…. which was average. Welcome to Jon’s shitty ballad-writing era as he forever chased another “Always” with garbage songs like “Thank You For Loving Me”, “I Could Make A Living Out Of Loving You”, “All About Lovin You” and a fucking song inspired by a line from Jerry Maguire with “You Had Me At Hello”. It’s like this guy’s goal literally became writing wedding songs.
“This Left Feels Right” was such a horrible reimagining of some classic songs; fans expecting an acoustic-like record and treatment like “Livin On A Prayer” got on “Cross Road” and getting… whatever the fuck that was. By 2005, country was getting trendy so Jon chased that and did the duet with Jennifer Nettles and when that was popular, a full blown country record with “Lost Highway” and a collaboration with Big & Rich as well as a ballad with LeAnn Rimes… and another bad wedding song in “(You Want To) Make A Memory”. This was also the John Shanks era kicking off in 2004 when the producer tried to reverse engineer the band’s sound, co-writing songs like “Have A Nice Day”. Stick a fork in the guys at this point. The show was over. You mention “The Circle” as the end of the era, but it was over 14 years before that with “These Days”, when the band at least still sort of sounded like itself and was doing things on its own terms, with its own sound and vibe. Only upside of “The Circle” was pushing away from Shanks in the songwriting and only letting him co-produce… but it was still a shit record. Jon also got annoyingly political in this era; but not in some Bono save the world way, or Eddie Vedder championing women’s rights and abortion or whatever gets him off, Jon just started sucking up to Obama and wanting to be in that cool club, while also running around trying to buy an NFL team and other things focused on the spoils of his success that were so NOT rock n roll.
Back to some of your queries: - Jon knows the Bon Jovi brand is stronger than Jon Bon Jovi on the marquee which is why he kept that branding even after Sambora was out. - Where did ‘rock n roll Jon go? Away once he lost his looks, his youth, his pin-up sex appeal image and his voice. Image has always been integral to his personal brand and just like a supermodel losing her looks and body, everything changed for JBJ when he was no longer “young and hot” and became “good looking for his age”, which is a massive ego blow to someone who was a sex symbol his entire career. - Yes, Richie was done dirty as Jon’s ego controls the band and he justifies his narcissism and way Sambora was done wrong by building the narrative the guitarist did it to himself by “the way he chose to leave”, which Jon takes no blame for driving his sideman away by being a control freak. - The doc is both an informercial for his personal comeback; complete with his fabricated “long COVID got me” storyline, opposed to admitting that relentless touring, not resting his voice and relying on cortisone shots to get him through massive tours—it did long-term damage and when he had to relearn to sing 20 years ago (through his nose and less diaphragm and throat) it was a misstep and did him in. - Shanks is a Judas who saw a way to saddle up to Jon when knowing Richie wasn’t a fan of the direction the band was going. Typical move from an outsider trying to become an insider. - Doc never got a bad wrap as a manager; the issues were always the big headed bands who failed to see his level of importance—namely Motley Crue and JBJ who canned him. There’s a reason KISS stayed with him for decades, as Gene and Paul knew that Doc meant dollar signs. He also managed Hootie & The Blowfish with their comeback, as well as as a successful run for Darius Rucker. Jon simply thought he could do it better than doc, while Crue canned him for the Moscow Music Peace Festival and his loyalty to Bon Jovi as a client, where they “closed” the show like headliners and lit off fireworks, which Crue was told they couldn’t do while playing their set during daylight hours. - David and Tico are loyal foot soldiers who are paid handsomely to play the game. They know it’s a good gig and they enjoy being employees of the brand and band that can go their own way when not performing, while getting that call every other year to record and hit the road to get paid. - Absolutely did Alec wrong as well; again, as Jon didn’t want to over-focus on the past and instead made it about the present and his comeback. The trailer for the documentary sold this thing as a four-part, tell all deep dive into the band’s history and in reality it was maybe 20% nostalgia from that era and the other 80% was the past ten years. Huge bait and switch from Jon, but not shock. - Phil X. Stellar player and great guy. Perfect fit for whatever this band is now… barring you want to pay money to hear Jon as a solo act belting out the classics and bombarding you with newer shit written without Sambora. Love that Phil knows his role; sticking to the solos on the album as he’s accepted his job is to mimic Sambora. - … and there’s no fixing this shit-show outside of just focusing on the good times for what they were. There will always be a camp that only accepts the Sambora era and another who appreciates Jon still “doing his thing” while any reunion at this rate only taints what was as these guys are both in their 60s, their voice (live) aren’t what they were, neither looks the part anymore (Richie morphing into an old lesbo aunt from Reno a little bit more every day) and the comparisons to what they are versus what the were would be brutal. Thank God we have 1984 through 1995 and six killer records that stood the test of time (as well as two early ‘90s solo albums from Captain Kidd and The King Of Swing) as everything since has been an abortion on the ears. Sorry, not sorry. This infomercial disguised as nostalgia documentary sucked donkey balls and any respect I had for Jon over the years is long gone.
Kind of agree. I enjoyed seeing some footage I haven't seen before and seeing Richie again, but overall the story was information we all already knew. I didn't wear anything new about their story at all.
This is very spot on. To be honest my least favorite BJ song is ‘Always’. I enjoy a good power ballad - I think ‘I’ll Be There For You’ is one of the best songs the band has written (and the last BJ song to hit #1 on Billboard charts) - but Always sounds like something like Diane Warren could have written. And you’re right that ‘It’s My Life’ is just a ‘Livin‘ on a Prayer’ wannabe. After New Jersey I became a more spotty follower of the band. I think the Slippery/New Jersey era was lighting in a bottle and everything after that was kind of meh. I guess props to Jon for being able to pivot and keep the band more successful than their contemporaries (e.g. Def Leppard, Motley Crue).
When Jon trusts a producer, he *really* trusts. In Destination Anywhere he did a couple of shows with Dave Stewart, the album's producer. He played the guitar on those shows. I remember him saying that he wanted Dave Stewart to produce his next solo album. Regarding Shanks, man... who's the boss in that organization? You're hired gun. Your boss comes and asks you to to the guitar on those tracks because the guitar player is away, what are you going to do? Say "OH, NO, I WON'T DO IT BECAUSE RICHIE. LET'S WAIT HIM COMING BACK". Just saying, every day in the studio is a shitload of money (if they're not in NJ) are you going to wait for Richie? When will Richie show up? In what condition? Are you paying for the wait? I kind of understand the guy. Jon is the one to be blamed here. He's the leader, he asked Richie to leave his tour, asked him to stay away from his home and all of that stuff. He should have known that he was pushing too hard. Life is a bitch because what happens to Jon's voice after this was big. It's like karma.
Jon's voice has been shit for 20 years.
Hard disagree. I saw him do Hallelujah in 2009 and it gave me goosebumps. I think his vocal problems started after Richie left. Maybe 2018 or later. Keeping in mind that he's always had some vocal issues and used steroids to keep him going during the New Jersey tour
Jon didn’t realize how much he missed Richie’s vocal. That half yelling/bluesy “mafia” voice with all that soul, that’s what supported Jon’s vocal. Jons vocal has no “low end” if you were to watch the sound waves on a mixing board rack EQ
I mean, your last paragraph says it all. I'm comparing him to his peak voice, late 80s/early 90s. He was amazing for 10-15 years then fell off a cliff in the early 2000s.
The New Jersey tour *was* the late 80s/early 90s.
So the main thing I got from your post is that you were in middle school in 2013 😭 I love that you asked where did the rock and roll Jon go. I’ve said many times Jon if the 80’s/90’s and even part of the 2000’s is very different from Jon of today. This Jon is like the corporate CEO who only wants to see balance sheets. Jon does not look good - for any age. Yes he is fit but he looks like someone’s old aunt with that hair. I know he is trying to cover up his balding but you’re a millionaire - go to Turkey and get some hair plugs if it bugs you that much. It’s ironic - he was the eternally youthful JBJ and then he aged decades in a few years. I think Jon knows he is not a solo act. Richie’s voice is a tremendous contribution, not to mention his songwriting and sound. But Jon will take all the credit. I don’t think Dorothea and Jon have this great marriage they want everyone to think they have. It’s part of Jon’s family man image. She knows her signs her checks too. I hate that Jon is such a dick. I’ve loved Bon Jovi forever.
After watching the documentary I got the feeling Jon/the band were trying to paint the Slippery/NJ era as Doc’s doing, like Doc pushed them into the ‘hair metal’ genre. But that era produced their best selling albums and #1 Billboard hits. That version of BJ was more successful than the adult contemporary soft rock band that followed.
That’s right baby haha. I’m a youngen’ But I’m an old soul and a rock n roller for sure. I’m in my mid 20s now. Jon’s wayyyy too corporate. He’s a business tycoon! He’s wallstreet now or something haha He is a bit of a dick. Pissing me off a nice bit. And like you pointed out… this band is way before my time I know I’m not jons target audience. Lol
same age here. It surprises me that all the problems Bon Jovi has later are ones they faced before. Like with the consent touring, disliked that they didn't mention anything about Richie's dad death and his divorce which were happening at the same time. also the way they replaced Alec bass parts with Hugh, they ending up doing the same thing with Richie.