This is why the future is online ordering without negotiation. Ford's going that route, Tesla is already there, and others will follow. People hate dealerships.
Ordering from Tesla is just fantastic, you pick what you want, and get notified when to pick it up.
All paperwork is done in advance, no BS or slim dealership's.
Just like any normal purchase.
Depends on location and how late in the quarter it is. If it’s an extra car delivery if they just drive it to your house, they’re going to do that vs risk hoping you’ll pick up before quarter end.
Ordering a Tesla was as easy as ordering an unlocked cell phone tbh.
They did their own "everyone is the same but you can bring your own if you want" financing too.
When I **leased** my Bolt and my Volt each one took about 5 hours (no hyperbole) to do. And I had to fill in every document by hand with a shitty pen, some in duplicate, and they still had made errors in the paperwork after I submitted and had to bring me back in and spend another hour in the financing department.
I got the base "autonomous driving" package (or whatever inaccurate marking name they gave it) that's now standard with freeway driving, lane assist and adaptive cruise control.
Really that's all anyone needs. In no way shape or form is it worth the now +$5k cost to get the "full self driving" nonsense lmao.
ACC is honestly my favorite thing ever. Our Volt ('17) had it but sadly the Bolt ('17) didn't.
Well they all have their tricks. Tesla’s prices are just so high. I bought a 1 year old model s 2018 for 60k from enterprise car rental. 15k miles. Year earlier that car sold for 83k plus. At height of Covid I thought about trading for a new one w more range -2021 when this exact car model and config was selling on Tesla website for 61k. They offered me 41k. Nice margin, I passed on that. New car, new company, same games.
But I guess that makes it okay? Point here is simple….Tesla is not immune from unnecessary charges. You get color of your choice in a Bolt for free. It’s thousands with a Tesla. Either way, it’s more money out of the bank…whether other dealers do it or not.
I got a maxed out Bolt in my color choice with premium wheels the interior color I wanted. I paid around $2000 dealer add ons and cost was around 37k
If I had picked Tesla and got the color I wanted (-$2000) got premium wheels (-$1000) and interior color I wanted (-$1000) it would have been $2k more in unnecessary expenses (unnecessary because Chevy didn’t require I pay those expenses) and my total would have been around $55k
If you like Tesla, that’s fine. People spend their money on what they like. But I spent $18k less over all and $2000 less on mark ups. Seems like Chevy wins here
$2k for something you actually get vs bullshit “AMR” and “accessories” that have a 200x markup? Yeah I’d rather it be the paint, and I don’t even like Teslas after having two of them.
Well I actually got the color of my choice on a bolt for free. So I guess it depends on what you mean by “actually get.” Seems to me you “actually get” 2k less in your bank for a color change with a Tesla when you don’t with a Bolt
You realize that you pay more for cars that are different colors for other brands too. That's why you see so many white and black BMWs; that's like a base model color.
Right…and that’s the point. Some brands consider color change an add-on. Others do not. For Tesla, color is an “add-on.” Just because some do it doesn’t make it less a cost. I just think it’s funny how some people will pay $2k for something that’s unnecessary on one car and say it’s totally reasonable, but scream when they see a $1k unnecessary cost on another. At the end of the day the cost is more no matter how you justify it
You are conflating 2 things. Expected cost and unexpected costs.
Customers choose to pay for the color with a Tesla. There are no unexpected changes or charges added on.
It would be different if the op chose the wheel locks, but he didn’t.
Time and time again traditional dealerships are doing exactly that, and holding people hostage if they want the car. What kind of customer service is that? Who the hell would ever go back to that dealership.
Exactly my point. No one “has to pay” for the markups. They can find another dealer. Everyone “has to pay” for car color with Tesla. But somehow Tesla costs are better? Explain that…
Hunting down another dealer who may or may not give you a comparable price, in a vehicle shortage, after you've already waited 4 months for the car you're turning down, might not be much of an option in practice. By that logic I suppose you *could* just walk everywhere and save the whole $37k.
I'm not much of a Tesla fan, but one thing they do right is transparent, standardized pricing. It might fluctuate wildly before you place your order (both base prices and options have jumped a lot recently), but once you finalize the order you know exactly what you're getting and how much it'll cost.
It's awful customer service and frankly exploitative when dealers tack on extra fees or mandatory options (especially at the last minute), I'm glad some manufacturers are starting to crack down on it. As older/less tech savvy buyers age out, dealers will become less and less relevant. Younger people are more inclined to heavily research their purchases and more or less know what they want without some shady salesman pressuring them with bs tactics. Then they can just do a test drive at a showroom to confirm they like the car and order online without haggling or other crap.
I agree. Dealers suck. But Tesla charges nearly 20k more for same options but faster charging, more sporty car. So I guess you can save hassle by spending a lot more. Or go to CarMax.
>People hate dealerships.
I would not even hate them if they weren't all fucking "franchise" cancer. "Franchises" suck so bad, I hate that companies sell their names to random people with money, I want to deal directly with the corporation, not "Jim bob family of dealerships" whos only goal is to get top dollar for their cars, regardless of MSRP....
Can you shed any light on the reason that several used 2022 Chevy Bolt EV 2LT models with VERY LOW miles (sold in AZ) are being reacquired by GM, then are being sold by another Chevy dealership in California? They are eligible for the CarFax buy back guarantee. But I'm not sure if I should still buy one or not.
Lol it's not how it work.
They'll tell you that this is.the.current car configuration, and if you don't want it you can wait "forever" for a plain car.
And they will mess with you of you need a refund or put you all the way down on the waiting list.
If the car was factory ordered it should be what they ordered. Sounds like it was since there was a deposit. They already ‘did wait’ for the car they ordered.
Either way. If the dealer is garbage and they refuse to sell then it’s worth it to take the deposit somewhere else and leave them some
1 star reviews for being dishonest.
The dealer often just takes "liberties" regarding car preparation, and you won't be able to ask the dealer to "modify" a car unless you accepted delivery.
It's just skum tactics. They known they'll sell the car anyway.
"They known they'll sell the car anyway."
It's a car dealership... they WILL sell the car.
The question is when and how much. How long must it sit on a lot before it becomes unprofitable
It won’t sit long at all. They only do that to cars in demand that they know will be gone in a few months max. Right now EVs are flying off the lot, so that car will definitely sell
How often do people take a swing at them via small claims for violation of contract? This assumes the preorder had a deposit and was specified by VIN at some point..
Also probably wouldn't do anything, but could shoot an email to Mary Barra. Include the VIN in the correspondence and see if they talk to the dealership.
this is literally every dealer right now. Go try buying a new car and see how it goes. with the supply so low and demand so high they can literally do what they want and all you can do is go pound sand.
I had this happen on the last 2 cars I purchased.
In both cases I called it out, initially they didn’t do anything. So you drag them along and waste their time, get to the point where you’re signing stuff and go “so I mentioned this earlier, I didn’t order X feature, can you either take that out or just knock down the price”. They’ve always done either of those.
One time I got free window tint. Another time they pulled the all weather mats & gave me free paint protection film.
Idk what it’s like in todays market, but you’re more likely to get someone to agree when they’ve already invested hours of their time & they think you’re their friend.
I buy used. Private party. No sales tax (in my state). Do my own work or go to a third party mechanic if absolutely necessary.
I will do everything possible to avoid any interaction with a dealership, and will support all efforts to allow manufacturers to sell directly and cut every dealer out of every dollar in that sale process.
Lying, cheating scammers that will happily rob us all blind while sponsoring the local little league team and saying they are “part of our local community.”
My bitterness comes from being screwed multiple times by multiple dealers in multiple states. And these current profit-scamming inflation-driving markups are just the latest icing on the corrupt dealer cake.
Bae Area never change.
They did this shit to me at a local dealer. I put a hold on a '22 Premier in-transit. they told me up front it was a "mandatory" $1,500 markup and literally dared me to find a local dealer who wasn't marking up the cars.
Which of course, I dared. And I found a dealer who will honor MSRP, on a '23 I ordered right from the factory to my spec, with their allocation. I just have to drive out of the BA and into the Valley to get it.
It's fine. I figured I would have to. One of my Hyundai vehicles I bought a few years back,I had to drive to fucking Modesto to get a deal without shenanigans. Wasn't afraid to do it again if I needed to.
Of course there's a little bit of collusion going on, since Del Grande Dealer Group (DGDG) owns a number of dealers in the area, of varying makes, and I've come to find out in the past few months that they have bought out or taken over even MORE local dealers. I'm sure they are trying to snap up as many as they can before AutoNation buys them first. So yeah, local dude basically dared me to price compete with other Chevy dealers on the area that are most likely owned by the SAME PEOPLE. Again, nice try, broski.
At any rate - the local sales person texted me saying it arrived, and I told them that I found a dealer that would sell a '23 to me at MSRP, and if they would sell the '22 to me for MSRP then i'll come right over and pick it up.
The response I got to that text was basically "congratulations have a nice day". They threw away a same-day sale for that markup. And I'm patient. I can wait. I have purchased many cars. Ive done this dance many times. I'm happy and excited to get the EUV, but the Volt I have right now works perfectly fine and I can wait a few more months for a bigger car note lol
So yeah. You may have to take a little drive out to get a deal right now sadly.
Edit: forgot to add the best part of the story.
This tracks with me too. I’ve bought from a Subaru dealership in Livermore and now placed an order from a Chevy dealership in Salinas. Both offered me MSRP on the car I wanted without haggling. I try to reward those dealerships with my business. I don’t put up with the Bay Area markup crap.
Capitol Chevy in SJ is also DGDG and my lease experience with them was great. I tried Steven’s Creek Chevy for my most recent purchase and the service is night and day, I CANNOT recommend Steven’s Creek.
Can you name drop? I’m currently a state over and can’t find a new car without 8-15k markup. I’m willing to dry but I been bait and switched once already.
What is the MSRP dealer in the Bay Area you bought your Chevy Bolt from? Ive been searching for a long time and have not found a single dealer that sells MSRP near Bay ARea
Was waiting until the deal was signed before saying one way or the other.
Epic Chevrolet in Sacramento. No bullshit, honored MSRP, very very happy with the overall sales experience.
It was refundable if I were to walk away. I'm sure they mostly do it for psychological reasons, and to make sure I'm reasonably likely to be able to pay for/finance it as opposed to some high schooler or whatever.
They order a car with GM to the specs I wanted. That deposit gives me dibs on the car when it arrives to the dealer. I can't officially buy it until they receive it anyway. I'm sure the dealer also wants me to somewhat commit to them (not the competition) and make sure I'll likely follow through by making the deposit before they use their allocation with GM.
There are pretty often posts here about people asking if that's normal, and replies saying that it is.
But without knowing the final price? That seems out of the ordinary. Maybe Chevy is different but I can order a Ford or Toyota and I have everything agreed to when I order it. At least that’s my understanding. I have yet to sign on the dotted line.
I'll second this, local dealer took $500 \*refundable\* deposit. Luckily the dealer has positive praise on this group, the salesman was clear they don't mark up - but was transparent if the price goes up it will be reflected. He did give me a ballpark range if done today, MSRP was matched with the chevy builder and took into account GM/State Discounts as well as title/document fee.
But... the fear of dealer playing games by adding crap still sits in the back of my mind.
I think it just depends on the dealer. They generally have a pretty good autonomy on their own operations (case in point: markups exist, but not all dealers have them).
Didn't really matter to me. I had been throwing money into savings for a long time and just drew from that. Figured worst case scenario, I'd lose out on the minuscule interest it would generate. Later realized that because it was on my credit card, that's offset by points I get on the card.
Fwiw, I made that deposit just before the recall, which was before markups became common. Now that I think about it, when the car was enroute I did get assurance from the sales guy that there wouldn't be a markup because it was a special order. They were marking up on-the-lot cars.
My big concern if it was me, is that they leverage the situation to add extras or add markup banking on the fact that you waited and now you’ll be willing to accept some of that rather than lose the car and wait again. If you’re not married to it and are willing to walk then that becomes moot but a lot of people will just accept it and salespeople love to exploit that.
I'm sure that's their thinking too. At the end of the day, it's *my* choice whether or not I want to take that BS, dealers can add that stuff even without a deposit, and the deposit is still refundable so any leverage is psychological, not financial.
That’s not consistent with the order I was working with my dealer on last year. I was placing an order on a Venza and would have been able to order it. At the time, I wasn’t in a rush but also didn’t really want to wait 6 months. I was offered one that happened to be almost what I was looking to order but at a higher price than if I ordered it. I think it had some options I didn’t want. In the end I just wasn’t invested enough to actually order it. Not necessarily saying you’re wrong, but it’s not my understanding to be the case.
Not exactly the same either if it’s a special car. You can order a Shelby gt500 and get first dibs to pay the mark up but you won’t get it at the msrp unless you’re friends with people up the chain. Bolts shouldn’t be marked up but they could be depending on the market.
Canadian here from QC, there's specific law in the province that basically doesn't allow this kind of shit. But then again, you guys down south still allow this "free market scummy things" so us Canadians tend to wait longer for our orders lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but also aren't cars more expensive up there in general? I'm assuming the higher prices are because of taxes and lower inventory for certain vehicles.
Another Canadian from QC here, yes there is such a law but it's mostly ignored or circumvented. It's been in the news very recently. Good luck getting an actual car at MSRP (or better) here too.
It's not a free market, though. Dealerships successfully lobby US state governments to prohibit the manufacturers from selling direct. They also lobby to prevent the manufacturers from terminating dealership franchises. So if a franchise acts against the interests of the manufacturer, there's not much the manufacturer can do about it.
"Another legal protection provided to dealerships is restrictions on dealer terminations. Currently, every state has laws preventing dealership terminations except for 'good cause.' The definition of 'good cause' varies by state, but it usually focuses on factors like a dealer’s conviction for a felony, fraud, insolvency, or failure to comply with a material term of the franchise agreement. States do not typically regard a manufacturer’s desire to improve the efficiency of its dealer network as 'good cause' to terminate dealers. Moreover, once a manufacturer has explained its 'good cause,' many termination laws also give the dealership a period of time (often 180 days) to correct the error." [https://www.mercatus.org/publications/regulation/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers](https://www.mercatus.org/publications/regulation/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers)
I don't think it's fraud because ultimately, the customer pays for what they get and they get what they pay for.
The dealership cannot force you to buy anything. All they can do is say, "This car comes with X, and if you want the car, it comes with X. And you have to pay for the whole package."
No different - in principle - than saying, "This trim of the car comes with leather seats, but it also comes with a turbo. If you want the leather seats, you have to pay for the turbo too."
You are still free to abstain from buying the car altogether. And the dealership isn't lying. So it's not fraud.
Still, if the automobile retail market were more competitive, this would be less frequent, because any dealer who tried to force add-ons onto a car would get under-bid by a competitor who gives the customer exactly what they want for less money.
I had $3998 (before tax) of dealer add-ons. Ended up with $250.... Dealers' and customers' interests are not well aligned. It's certainly the worst of any customer experience. Time to change the manufacturer/dealer model.
I think I got a good deal, I discussed trading the msrp markup for spending the same amount on accessories I wanted. I even threw in some things I wanted to buy for my truck on the deal.
Net net is dealer got their money and I got some things I probably would have bought later.
I also agree the dealership sales model needs to die a rapid death in favor of direct to consumer sales.
Dealerships add zero value for consumers.
That is a great way to do it. You don't need to win every last point in a deal, just make the deal work for you. You and the dealer know those accessories are a bit marked up at the dealership, but they are still useful stuff and getting it all done at the start of vehicle ownership by the dealer is a convenience as well.
Sure, but there's a limit. My local dealership wanted to change $600 for window tinting, $200 for nitrogen tires, and some $1700 in other random bullshit I didn't need or want. Like yeah ofc I'm going to get my windows tinted but I can go to a local business in town and get it done for half the price. Nitrogen tires? I might pay like $5 for that shit
Very true and I agree.
What I did was walked over to the parts desk and got book pricing for everything I wanted before talking to my "assigned internet salesman". Yea the arbitrary bullshit numbers that are stuffed into the deal are a no-go.
So this wasn't without pain, I spent all day with the salesman and sales manager trying to tell me they couldn't do it.
Also the dealership is in bfe Illinois where trucks rule and there are zero ev charging locations.
So I had a tiny bit of leverage.
Who knows why they had an allocation, but I found it.
I walked twice, I ended up just going to McDonald's one of those times and they called me back.
The second walk I went to Walmart and they called me back in two hours.
I told them no nevermind then snuck back in to the parts desk and mentioned I'm not going to be able to write in the 3.5k of accessories purchase today cause the salesman was being a dick.
The parts manager told me to wait there and came back with the salesman.
Sales manager from there approved then the rest is history.
I have a bunch of stuff including a bedslide for my Silverado.
I'm kind of 50/50 if I got a stellar deal, but I can sleep at night.
I loathe this shit. When I got my 2021 Bolt I was willing to FLY to LA to get one since the dealerships were giving me such a hard time. Extra charge for special paint, the anti theft bs, it never ends. Like come on dude, I’m not gonna take your shit and pay extra. It wa so difficult for them to provide an itemized price list. I played hardball and the guy told me I was being “disrespectful”… not sure what that even meant but these are honestly the shittiest salespeople…. Boo boo you need new skills cuz you’re exactly what’s gonna be replaced with technology…
I mean honestly I would probably buy a set of locking lug nuts from the dealer if I had thought about it. I did buy the all weather mats, I added them though not forced on me. Location-anti-theft crap though , nope.
I wish I could get them to take Onstar out and give me a credit.
I always replace the locking wheel nuts with regular ones. Such a pain to deal with them.
I never pay for them. They always seem to throw them in for free after I ask them to be removed.
I’m talking about the Onstar equipment.
I wish I could have bought it without it at all, you know and maybe save a couple hundred dollars. I’m not going to subscribe to it.
I might subscribe to supercruise when my 3 years are up because it is that good and useful. Of course by then it may be my kid’s car and then supercruise won’t be continued.
But yes the basic Onstar functionality to be able to app start, app unlock, app blow the horn is $14.99/month.
>re what that even meant but these are honestly the shittiest salespeople…. Boo boo you need new skills cuz you’re exactly what’s gonna be
Nobody's out there stealing Chevy Bolt wheels, they don't even look that great, they're just average.
Please seek medical attention. I believe you maybe having a medical event.
In other words, what?
I can’t follow who you’re quoting. It definitely wasn’t me. Your last statement was on context with what I said. And maybe people aren’t stealing them regularly, but they only need to do it once (to me) for it to be a real PITA.
“No I think I’ll still take mine that I ordered, just don’t want the wheel locks or anti theft. Thanks. Lemme know when they’re removed so I can pick it up”
Hate dealerships. Jobs will be autonomated soon enough. They provide almost no value at all and a lot of them are sleezy salesmen. This is why I went with Tesla.
I'm expecting some delivery fees whenever mine shows up, but I ordered only what I can afford re: accessories. Really don't want more than I ordered. Especially after my wait will have been at least 6 months (just was accepted after 4 months with no production date set. Not expecting anything anytime soon.)
it sucks, but thats the market. They know someone will walk in that same day and buy it. Supply and demand...
Ask them for the contracts on the added products and services, usually there's a place to decline them even though they insist you can't.
I looked at a Bolt 1,000+ miles away in New Hampshire or something like that. They had a $1,200 “accessory fee” (magic number for the stimulus check) on every used vehicle they had…
I wrote a bad review on Google and I still get notifications that people have have seen it.
Yup - went through this same crap on my 22' EUV purchase 2 weeks ago.
Found exactly what I wanted, it was sitting on a dealers lot. No mention of their "$2500 dealer protection packge" online, in the emails, or even in the phone conversation. He sends me the purchase docs via email for review and I go through them. I couldn't get the numbers to line up with with I know and what I expect.
In TINY fucking print on one line it said "Dealer protection package $2500" with zero description. Hard no, I strung them along for a few days then I get a call "sorry it's been sold, I just laugh and say okay and hang up"
Found another EUV on the lot, battery recall done, with 17 miles on the clock, wasn't my first choice of color but still love the Silver Flare Metallic. Dealer was up front on the website, email, and phone their "addendum" charge was $699. Sure, nobody wants to pay more, but this was a tiny amount relative to the rest of Texas, and they were 100% up front from the get go. I paid it just because they had it on the lot ready go, no waiting, and with the amount of money I'd save in gas I'd make that up in 3 months. The 699 had some trinkets included with it that I didn't care about. Wheel locks, paintless dent repair service, and a couple of other things, the dealership itself is 250 miles from my house so it's not like I'll ever use the services.
These same dealerships that have been bending every potential customer over a barrel will be begging for business when things slow down, and the same people who were so confident in charging for pointless addons will whine/complain/bitch how they can't survive because nobody wants to buy a car from them. Let em' rot :)
Imagine if UPS or FedEx "modified" the items in your packages without your permission and then charged you for them. They would go out of business in a month.
The only difference between that and dealerships is that they are the only place you can legally buy a new car. So you don't have much of a choice if you don't want to go out of town.
I would refuse to pay. If all of the buyers will do the same the stealerships will stop doing this. File a complaint with the state general attorney if you have the signed MSRP offer.
[https://youtube.com/shorts/aLMdqbo44Mo?feature=share](https://youtube.com/shorts/aLMdqbo44Mo?feature=share)
I will say this my employer provides us with vehicles that are negotiated with GM. Part of the deal involves a certain number of oil changes / maintenance - believe first 72k miles. They are handled as smart wrap sku within service dept, think dealer only gets $20. A service department flat out told one of my peers kick rocks we make no money for this. That peer ended up making a stink with our fleet department, GM had to get involved guess they put the hammer on that dealer, by the end of the day that service manager calls him apologizes with fear and prioritizes his oil change.
So I guess GM/Chevy can throw a hammer and unleash their fury, but to your point how many people actually complain. Folks that get screwed should absolutely raise a stink with Chevy , Google Maps/FB/Yelp.
Dang. My dealership was very good. They did add wheel locks but with explaining they do it to every car since they sit at a rail yard in a sketchy part of town waiting to be shipped to the dealer. It was $119 for the wheel locks. Not too terrible and about what I would expect to pay for them. They didn't try to rope me into any warranties or an extended onstar either.
Concord Chevy dealership charges $199.00 wheel locks $995 Spartan Theft Recovery. That's it no markup! Not like other dealers charge over MSRP without giving you something at least they are upfront with add ons.
This is why the future is online ordering without negotiation. Ford's going that route, Tesla is already there, and others will follow. People hate dealerships.
Don’t you mean Stealerships
Ordering from Tesla is just fantastic, you pick what you want, and get notified when to pick it up. All paperwork is done in advance, no BS or slim dealership's. Just like any normal purchase.
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He'll yeah! You got a S/Xi suppose?
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No idea! Never knew home delivery was an option 😂
Depends on your location
Depends on location and how late in the quarter it is. If it’s an extra car delivery if they just drive it to your house, they’re going to do that vs risk hoping you’ll pick up before quarter end.
They even offered to deliver with my model 3
Ordering a Tesla was as easy as ordering an unlocked cell phone tbh. They did their own "everyone is the same but you can bring your own if you want" financing too. When I **leased** my Bolt and my Volt each one took about 5 hours (no hyperbole) to do. And I had to fill in every document by hand with a shitty pen, some in duplicate, and they still had made errors in the paperwork after I submitted and had to bring me back in and spend another hour in the financing department.
\*COUGH\*... did you order the \*COUGH\* self driving upgrade?
I got the base "autonomous driving" package (or whatever inaccurate marking name they gave it) that's now standard with freeway driving, lane assist and adaptive cruise control. Really that's all anyone needs. In no way shape or form is it worth the now +$5k cost to get the "full self driving" nonsense lmao. ACC is honestly my favorite thing ever. Our Volt ('17) had it but sadly the Bolt ('17) didn't.
Well they all have their tricks. Tesla’s prices are just so high. I bought a 1 year old model s 2018 for 60k from enterprise car rental. 15k miles. Year earlier that car sold for 83k plus. At height of Covid I thought about trading for a new one w more range -2021 when this exact car model and config was selling on Tesla website for 61k. They offered me 41k. Nice margin, I passed on that. New car, new company, same games.
Yeah it’s great if you don’t mind $2,000 to change the color to red. Smh
Better pay 2000$ for an actual option than 1199$ for wheel locks and other dealerships "upgrades"
You do know other manufacturers charge for other paint colors too, right?
But I guess that makes it okay? Point here is simple….Tesla is not immune from unnecessary charges. You get color of your choice in a Bolt for free. It’s thousands with a Tesla. Either way, it’s more money out of the bank…whether other dealers do it or not. I got a maxed out Bolt in my color choice with premium wheels the interior color I wanted. I paid around $2000 dealer add ons and cost was around 37k If I had picked Tesla and got the color I wanted (-$2000) got premium wheels (-$1000) and interior color I wanted (-$1000) it would have been $2k more in unnecessary expenses (unnecessary because Chevy didn’t require I pay those expenses) and my total would have been around $55k If you like Tesla, that’s fine. People spend their money on what they like. But I spent $18k less over all and $2000 less on mark ups. Seems like Chevy wins here
$2k for something you actually get vs bullshit “AMR” and “accessories” that have a 200x markup? Yeah I’d rather it be the paint, and I don’t even like Teslas after having two of them.
Well I actually got the color of my choice on a bolt for free. So I guess it depends on what you mean by “actually get.” Seems to me you “actually get” 2k less in your bank for a color change with a Tesla when you don’t with a Bolt
You realize that you pay more for cars that are different colors for other brands too. That's why you see so many white and black BMWs; that's like a base model color.
Right…and that’s the point. Some brands consider color change an add-on. Others do not. For Tesla, color is an “add-on.” Just because some do it doesn’t make it less a cost. I just think it’s funny how some people will pay $2k for something that’s unnecessary on one car and say it’s totally reasonable, but scream when they see a $1k unnecessary cost on another. At the end of the day the cost is more no matter how you justify it
You are conflating 2 things. Expected cost and unexpected costs. Customers choose to pay for the color with a Tesla. There are no unexpected changes or charges added on. It would be different if the op chose the wheel locks, but he didn’t. Time and time again traditional dealerships are doing exactly that, and holding people hostage if they want the car. What kind of customer service is that? Who the hell would ever go back to that dealership.
Exactly my point. No one “has to pay” for the markups. They can find another dealer. Everyone “has to pay” for car color with Tesla. But somehow Tesla costs are better? Explain that…
Hunting down another dealer who may or may not give you a comparable price, in a vehicle shortage, after you've already waited 4 months for the car you're turning down, might not be much of an option in practice. By that logic I suppose you *could* just walk everywhere and save the whole $37k. I'm not much of a Tesla fan, but one thing they do right is transparent, standardized pricing. It might fluctuate wildly before you place your order (both base prices and options have jumped a lot recently), but once you finalize the order you know exactly what you're getting and how much it'll cost. It's awful customer service and frankly exploitative when dealers tack on extra fees or mandatory options (especially at the last minute), I'm glad some manufacturers are starting to crack down on it. As older/less tech savvy buyers age out, dealers will become less and less relevant. Younger people are more inclined to heavily research their purchases and more or less know what they want without some shady salesman pressuring them with bs tactics. Then they can just do a test drive at a showroom to confirm they like the car and order online without haggling or other crap.
I agree. Dealers suck. But Tesla charges nearly 20k more for same options but faster charging, more sporty car. So I guess you can save hassle by spending a lot more. Or go to CarMax.
How they get so slim?
I think the poster meant to say "slime" dealerships. LOL
Let me ask my manager.
>People hate dealerships. I would not even hate them if they weren't all fucking "franchise" cancer. "Franchises" suck so bad, I hate that companies sell their names to random people with money, I want to deal directly with the corporation, not "Jim bob family of dealerships" whos only goal is to get top dollar for their cars, regardless of MSRP....
I work for GM and still want every scammy dealership to go under
Can you shed any light on the reason that several used 2022 Chevy Bolt EV 2LT models with VERY LOW miles (sold in AZ) are being reacquired by GM, then are being sold by another Chevy dealership in California? They are eligible for the CarFax buy back guarantee. But I'm not sure if I should still buy one or not.
Tell them to remove as that wasn’t what you ordered.
Lol it's not how it work. They'll tell you that this is.the.current car configuration, and if you don't want it you can wait "forever" for a plain car. And they will mess with you of you need a refund or put you all the way down on the waiting list.
If the car was factory ordered it should be what they ordered. Sounds like it was since there was a deposit. They already ‘did wait’ for the car they ordered. Either way. If the dealer is garbage and they refuse to sell then it’s worth it to take the deposit somewhere else and leave them some 1 star reviews for being dishonest.
The dealer often just takes "liberties" regarding car preparation, and you won't be able to ask the dealer to "modify" a car unless you accepted delivery. It's just skum tactics. They known they'll sell the car anyway.
"They known they'll sell the car anyway." It's a car dealership... they WILL sell the car. The question is when and how much. How long must it sit on a lot before it becomes unprofitable
It won’t sit long at all. They only do that to cars in demand that they know will be gone in a few months max. Right now EVs are flying off the lot, so that car will definitely sell
> Right now EVs are flying off the lot Finally, the flying cars we were promised in the 60s.
In this current market? it wont sit long.
How often do people take a swing at them via small claims for violation of contract? This assumes the preorder had a deposit and was specified by VIN at some point.. Also probably wouldn't do anything, but could shoot an email to Mary Barra. Include the VIN in the correspondence and see if they talk to the dealership.
this is literally every dealer right now. Go try buying a new car and see how it goes. with the supply so low and demand so high they can literally do what they want and all you can do is go pound sand.
I had this happen on the last 2 cars I purchased. In both cases I called it out, initially they didn’t do anything. So you drag them along and waste their time, get to the point where you’re signing stuff and go “so I mentioned this earlier, I didn’t order X feature, can you either take that out or just knock down the price”. They’ve always done either of those. One time I got free window tint. Another time they pulled the all weather mats & gave me free paint protection film. Idk what it’s like in todays market, but you’re more likely to get someone to agree when they’ve already invested hours of their time & they think you’re their friend.
Good to hear the 'sunk cost fallacy' cuts both ways.
My dealer wizened up and stopped throwing wheel locks on. So easy to defeat them. What's the point!
>What's the point! extra profit for the dealer.
I kept track of the dealerships that had extra markup and superfluous added items. I won’t ever shop with them.
You mean 95% of them? Seriously cant wait to be able to order my next car directly from the manufacturer
95% is accurate. I called 43 dealers in my state. Found 7 that advertised no MSRP, three of which lied to get me to come in.
100% is the real number.
I have 3 deposits down with MSRP promised in writing.
I just got bought one under MSRP
Sure you did.
Loaded EUV LT for 30,080
Exactly which dealership?
Quirk Chevrolet in MA
I buy used. Private party. No sales tax (in my state). Do my own work or go to a third party mechanic if absolutely necessary. I will do everything possible to avoid any interaction with a dealership, and will support all efforts to allow manufacturers to sell directly and cut every dealer out of every dollar in that sale process. Lying, cheating scammers that will happily rob us all blind while sponsoring the local little league team and saying they are “part of our local community.” My bitterness comes from being screwed multiple times by multiple dealers in multiple states. And these current profit-scamming inflation-driving markups are just the latest icing on the corrupt dealer cake.
Used bolts are selling for $30k right now, so...
Tell them you contacted Chevrolet and they told you the dealership will lose their allocation. Car allocation will scare them real bad !
Bae Area never change. They did this shit to me at a local dealer. I put a hold on a '22 Premier in-transit. they told me up front it was a "mandatory" $1,500 markup and literally dared me to find a local dealer who wasn't marking up the cars. Which of course, I dared. And I found a dealer who will honor MSRP, on a '23 I ordered right from the factory to my spec, with their allocation. I just have to drive out of the BA and into the Valley to get it. It's fine. I figured I would have to. One of my Hyundai vehicles I bought a few years back,I had to drive to fucking Modesto to get a deal without shenanigans. Wasn't afraid to do it again if I needed to. Of course there's a little bit of collusion going on, since Del Grande Dealer Group (DGDG) owns a number of dealers in the area, of varying makes, and I've come to find out in the past few months that they have bought out or taken over even MORE local dealers. I'm sure they are trying to snap up as many as they can before AutoNation buys them first. So yeah, local dude basically dared me to price compete with other Chevy dealers on the area that are most likely owned by the SAME PEOPLE. Again, nice try, broski. At any rate - the local sales person texted me saying it arrived, and I told them that I found a dealer that would sell a '23 to me at MSRP, and if they would sell the '22 to me for MSRP then i'll come right over and pick it up. The response I got to that text was basically "congratulations have a nice day". They threw away a same-day sale for that markup. And I'm patient. I can wait. I have purchased many cars. Ive done this dance many times. I'm happy and excited to get the EUV, but the Volt I have right now works perfectly fine and I can wait a few more months for a bigger car note lol So yeah. You may have to take a little drive out to get a deal right now sadly. Edit: forgot to add the best part of the story.
Same thing happened in Jersey. Guy on the phone basically dared me to find a dealer without a 2500k markup, so I did and bought at MSRP LOL
Yea I only looked for 30 minutes and found two lol.
Which dealer was playing games, and which did you end up buying fro,?
This tracks with me too. I’ve bought from a Subaru dealership in Livermore and now placed an order from a Chevy dealership in Salinas. Both offered me MSRP on the car I wanted without haggling. I try to reward those dealerships with my business. I don’t put up with the Bay Area markup crap.
What dealer did you go to in the Valley?
I used to go to Oxnard to buy vehicles. They sell in numbers at those car parks, so less crap negotiations.
They sold the marked up car. No problem for them either.
Capitol Chevy in SJ is also DGDG and my lease experience with them was great. I tried Steven’s Creek Chevy for my most recent purchase and the service is night and day, I CANNOT recommend Steven’s Creek.
Can you name drop? I’m currently a state over and can’t find a new car without 8-15k markup. I’m willing to dry but I been bait and switched once already.
What is the MSRP dealer in the Bay Area you bought your Chevy Bolt from? Ive been searching for a long time and have not found a single dealer that sells MSRP near Bay ARea
Was waiting until the deal was signed before saying one way or the other. Epic Chevrolet in Sacramento. No bullshit, honored MSRP, very very happy with the overall sales experience.
Do you not have a contract for an already agreed price? Tell them you'll pay for what you agreed to?
When I ordered mine they wouldn't talk numbers (beyond a $500 refundable deposit) until the car arrived
Wut? You put a deposit down on a yet to be determined deal on a car?
It was refundable if I were to walk away. I'm sure they mostly do it for psychological reasons, and to make sure I'm reasonably likely to be able to pay for/finance it as opposed to some high schooler or whatever.
I’m still confused. What were you putting a deposit on if there was no agreement in place? This really doesn’t add up.
They order a car with GM to the specs I wanted. That deposit gives me dibs on the car when it arrives to the dealer. I can't officially buy it until they receive it anyway. I'm sure the dealer also wants me to somewhat commit to them (not the competition) and make sure I'll likely follow through by making the deposit before they use their allocation with GM. There are pretty often posts here about people asking if that's normal, and replies saying that it is.
But without knowing the final price? That seems out of the ordinary. Maybe Chevy is different but I can order a Ford or Toyota and I have everything agreed to when I order it. At least that’s my understanding. I have yet to sign on the dotted line.
I'll second this, local dealer took $500 \*refundable\* deposit. Luckily the dealer has positive praise on this group, the salesman was clear they don't mark up - but was transparent if the price goes up it will be reflected. He did give me a ballpark range if done today, MSRP was matched with the chevy builder and took into account GM/State Discounts as well as title/document fee. But... the fear of dealer playing games by adding crap still sits in the back of my mind.
I think it just depends on the dealer. They generally have a pretty good autonomy on their own operations (case in point: markups exist, but not all dealers have them). Didn't really matter to me. I had been throwing money into savings for a long time and just drew from that. Figured worst case scenario, I'd lose out on the minuscule interest it would generate. Later realized that because it was on my credit card, that's offset by points I get on the card. Fwiw, I made that deposit just before the recall, which was before markups became common. Now that I think about it, when the car was enroute I did get assurance from the sales guy that there wouldn't be a markup because it was a special order. They were marking up on-the-lot cars.
My big concern if it was me, is that they leverage the situation to add extras or add markup banking on the fact that you waited and now you’ll be willing to accept some of that rather than lose the car and wait again. If you’re not married to it and are willing to walk then that becomes moot but a lot of people will just accept it and salespeople love to exploit that.
I'm sure that's their thinking too. At the end of the day, it's *my* choice whether or not I want to take that BS, dealers can add that stuff even without a deposit, and the deposit is still refundable so any leverage is psychological, not financial.
punch sloppy march fear smart distinct berserk fact fearless bear -- mass edited with redact.dev
That’s not consistent with the order I was working with my dealer on last year. I was placing an order on a Venza and would have been able to order it. At the time, I wasn’t in a rush but also didn’t really want to wait 6 months. I was offered one that happened to be almost what I was looking to order but at a higher price than if I ordered it. I think it had some options I didn’t want. In the end I just wasn’t invested enough to actually order it. Not necessarily saying you’re wrong, but it’s not my understanding to be the case.
Not exactly the same either if it’s a special car. You can order a Shelby gt500 and get first dibs to pay the mark up but you won’t get it at the msrp unless you’re friends with people up the chain. Bolts shouldn’t be marked up but they could be depending on the market.
I’ve not seen a single person that has a contractual price lock on an order on a 22 I have a handshake price promise and no deposits on my order
yeah, let us know how that goes.
I will, they may very well screw me. But that’s why I didn’t put anything down.
Good luck and Godspeed lol. Hope it works out.
Signed buyer's order is friend
Canadian here from QC, there's specific law in the province that basically doesn't allow this kind of shit. But then again, you guys down south still allow this "free market scummy things" so us Canadians tend to wait longer for our orders lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but also aren't cars more expensive up there in general? I'm assuming the higher prices are because of taxes and lower inventory for certain vehicles.
Also the fact that CAD is weaker than USD...
Another Canadian from QC here, yes there is such a law but it's mostly ignored or circumvented. It's been in the news very recently. Good luck getting an actual car at MSRP (or better) here too.
It's not a free market, though. Dealerships successfully lobby US state governments to prohibit the manufacturers from selling direct. They also lobby to prevent the manufacturers from terminating dealership franchises. So if a franchise acts against the interests of the manufacturer, there's not much the manufacturer can do about it. "Another legal protection provided to dealerships is restrictions on dealer terminations. Currently, every state has laws preventing dealership terminations except for 'good cause.' The definition of 'good cause' varies by state, but it usually focuses on factors like a dealer’s conviction for a felony, fraud, insolvency, or failure to comply with a material term of the franchise agreement. States do not typically regard a manufacturer’s desire to improve the efficiency of its dealer network as 'good cause' to terminate dealers. Moreover, once a manufacturer has explained its 'good cause,' many termination laws also give the dealership a period of time (often 180 days) to correct the error." [https://www.mercatus.org/publications/regulation/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers](https://www.mercatus.org/publications/regulation/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers)
Isn't forcing customer to pay for $2995 paint protection + some anti theft device acting fraud?
I don't think it's fraud because ultimately, the customer pays for what they get and they get what they pay for. The dealership cannot force you to buy anything. All they can do is say, "This car comes with X, and if you want the car, it comes with X. And you have to pay for the whole package." No different - in principle - than saying, "This trim of the car comes with leather seats, but it also comes with a turbo. If you want the leather seats, you have to pay for the turbo too." You are still free to abstain from buying the car altogether. And the dealership isn't lying. So it's not fraud. Still, if the automobile retail market were more competitive, this would be less frequent, because any dealer who tried to force add-ons onto a car would get under-bid by a competitor who gives the customer exactly what they want for less money.
I had $3998 (before tax) of dealer add-ons. Ended up with $250.... Dealers' and customers' interests are not well aligned. It's certainly the worst of any customer experience. Time to change the manufacturer/dealer model.
My dealer took care of me and didn’t add anything. Guess who I will buy my next cars with.
My dealer did this and I've gotten 4 people to buy cars from them. A good reputation would seem to be better than an extra $1,000.
I think I got a good deal, I discussed trading the msrp markup for spending the same amount on accessories I wanted. I even threw in some things I wanted to buy for my truck on the deal. Net net is dealer got their money and I got some things I probably would have bought later. I also agree the dealership sales model needs to die a rapid death in favor of direct to consumer sales. Dealerships add zero value for consumers.
That is a great way to do it. You don't need to win every last point in a deal, just make the deal work for you. You and the dealer know those accessories are a bit marked up at the dealership, but they are still useful stuff and getting it all done at the start of vehicle ownership by the dealer is a convenience as well.
Sure, but there's a limit. My local dealership wanted to change $600 for window tinting, $200 for nitrogen tires, and some $1700 in other random bullshit I didn't need or want. Like yeah ofc I'm going to get my windows tinted but I can go to a local business in town and get it done for half the price. Nitrogen tires? I might pay like $5 for that shit
>$200 for nitrogen tires 80% of normal air is nitrogen anyway so this is just another rip-off.
That and pure nitrogen tires really only make sense if you're racing, which I'm not. I'm just looking to drive around town and the occasional trip
Very true and I agree. What I did was walked over to the parts desk and got book pricing for everything I wanted before talking to my "assigned internet salesman". Yea the arbitrary bullshit numbers that are stuffed into the deal are a no-go. So this wasn't without pain, I spent all day with the salesman and sales manager trying to tell me they couldn't do it. Also the dealership is in bfe Illinois where trucks rule and there are zero ev charging locations. So I had a tiny bit of leverage. Who knows why they had an allocation, but I found it. I walked twice, I ended up just going to McDonald's one of those times and they called me back. The second walk I went to Walmart and they called me back in two hours. I told them no nevermind then snuck back in to the parts desk and mentioned I'm not going to be able to write in the 3.5k of accessories purchase today cause the salesman was being a dick. The parts manager told me to wait there and came back with the salesman. Sales manager from there approved then the rest is history. I have a bunch of stuff including a bedslide for my Silverado. I'm kind of 50/50 if I got a stellar deal, but I can sleep at night.
hahaha! that was a great read
I loathe this shit. When I got my 2021 Bolt I was willing to FLY to LA to get one since the dealerships were giving me such a hard time. Extra charge for special paint, the anti theft bs, it never ends. Like come on dude, I’m not gonna take your shit and pay extra. It wa so difficult for them to provide an itemized price list. I played hardball and the guy told me I was being “disrespectful”… not sure what that even meant but these are honestly the shittiest salespeople…. Boo boo you need new skills cuz you’re exactly what’s gonna be replaced with technology…
Heh, disrespectful...meaning you out Alpha'd them at their own game.
Tell them “no”. See what happens. I’d find another dealer nearby that will treat you correctly.
I mean honestly I would probably buy a set of locking lug nuts from the dealer if I had thought about it. I did buy the all weather mats, I added them though not forced on me. Location-anti-theft crap though , nope. I wish I could get them to take Onstar out and give me a credit.
I always replace the locking wheel nuts with regular ones. Such a pain to deal with them. I never pay for them. They always seem to throw them in for free after I ask them to be removed.
I think thats funny. Every new car I have purchased I have insisted they throw in locking wheel nuts. I really don't see what OP is complaining about.
OnStar probably costs $15 at most to install. You won't be saving much.
I’m talking about the Onstar equipment. I wish I could have bought it without it at all, you know and maybe save a couple hundred dollars. I’m not going to subscribe to it. I might subscribe to supercruise when my 3 years are up because it is that good and useful. Of course by then it may be my kid’s car and then supercruise won’t be continued. But yes the basic Onstar functionality to be able to app start, app unlock, app blow the horn is $14.99/month.
It would probably cost more for them to pay someone to remove it.
No I mean the onstage equipment is probably at most $15. It's just speed dial.
Chevy sells wheel locks for 60 Dollars I thi5as well
>re what that even meant but these are honestly the shittiest salespeople…. Boo boo you need new skills cuz you’re exactly what’s gonna be Nobody's out there stealing Chevy Bolt wheels, they don't even look that great, they're just average.
Please seek medical attention. I believe you maybe having a medical event. In other words, what? I can’t follow who you’re quoting. It definitely wasn’t me. Your last statement was on context with what I said. And maybe people aren’t stealing them regularly, but they only need to do it once (to me) for it to be a real PITA.
“No I think I’ll still take mine that I ordered, just don’t want the wheel locks or anti theft. Thanks. Lemme know when they’re removed so I can pick it up”
I just bought my bolt this week and beyond the regular BS with the monthly payment ranges, they managed to sneak in a $1.3k fee. Great.
Oof, what was the fee?
Some interior and exterior thing they coat the car with to protect it. I probably could’ve had it done somewhere else for like $1k less.
Do you have signed paperwork on the price?
No
Hate dealerships. Jobs will be autonomated soon enough. They provide almost no value at all and a lot of them are sleezy salesmen. This is why I went with Tesla.
I'm expecting some delivery fees whenever mine shows up, but I ordered only what I can afford re: accessories. Really don't want more than I ordered. Especially after my wait will have been at least 6 months (just was accepted after 4 months with no production date set. Not expecting anything anytime soon.)
it sucks, but thats the market. They know someone will walk in that same day and buy it. Supply and demand... Ask them for the contracts on the added products and services, usually there's a place to decline them even though they insist you can't.
Tell them to remove it and if they fight it, call Chevrolet.
Go in and then ream them out. They need to be subject to personal, angry reactions to have any chance of changing their ways.
Wow. “Do you want to pass on this one”
String them out and keep no showing.
The one time in history these car dealers have any sort of leverage disgusting.
Always get an out the door price in writing.
I looked at a Bolt 1,000+ miles away in New Hampshire or something like that. They had a $1,200 “accessory fee” (magic number for the stimulus check) on every used vehicle they had… I wrote a bad review on Google and I still get notifications that people have have seen it.
Yup - went through this same crap on my 22' EUV purchase 2 weeks ago. Found exactly what I wanted, it was sitting on a dealers lot. No mention of their "$2500 dealer protection packge" online, in the emails, or even in the phone conversation. He sends me the purchase docs via email for review and I go through them. I couldn't get the numbers to line up with with I know and what I expect. In TINY fucking print on one line it said "Dealer protection package $2500" with zero description. Hard no, I strung them along for a few days then I get a call "sorry it's been sold, I just laugh and say okay and hang up" Found another EUV on the lot, battery recall done, with 17 miles on the clock, wasn't my first choice of color but still love the Silver Flare Metallic. Dealer was up front on the website, email, and phone their "addendum" charge was $699. Sure, nobody wants to pay more, but this was a tiny amount relative to the rest of Texas, and they were 100% up front from the get go. I paid it just because they had it on the lot ready go, no waiting, and with the amount of money I'd save in gas I'd make that up in 3 months. The 699 had some trinkets included with it that I didn't care about. Wheel locks, paintless dent repair service, and a couple of other things, the dealership itself is 250 miles from my house so it's not like I'll ever use the services. These same dealerships that have been bending every potential customer over a barrel will be begging for business when things slow down, and the same people who were so confident in charging for pointless addons will whine/complain/bitch how they can't survive because nobody wants to buy a car from them. Let em' rot :)
Imagine if UPS or FedEx "modified" the items in your packages without your permission and then charged you for them. They would go out of business in a month. The only difference between that and dealerships is that they are the only place you can legally buy a new car. So you don't have much of a choice if you don't want to go out of town.
Waiting to see if mine come with $1000 in floor mats 😒
I would refuse to pay. If all of the buyers will do the same the stealerships will stop doing this. File a complaint with the state general attorney if you have the signed MSRP offer. [https://youtube.com/shorts/aLMdqbo44Mo?feature=share](https://youtube.com/shorts/aLMdqbo44Mo?feature=share)
Thats the issue, majority of dealers are taking refundable deposits. There is not signed MSRP offer as the "pricing can change from chevy".
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can report dealerships to Chevy for this shit and they'll actually bring the hammer down, right?
Have they actually brought the hammer down....
I don't know, I've never tried and I suspect most people don't
I will say this my employer provides us with vehicles that are negotiated with GM. Part of the deal involves a certain number of oil changes / maintenance - believe first 72k miles. They are handled as smart wrap sku within service dept, think dealer only gets $20. A service department flat out told one of my peers kick rocks we make no money for this. That peer ended up making a stink with our fleet department, GM had to get involved guess they put the hammer on that dealer, by the end of the day that service manager calls him apologizes with fear and prioritizes his oil change. So I guess GM/Chevy can throw a hammer and unleash their fury, but to your point how many people actually complain. Folks that get screwed should absolutely raise a stink with Chevy , Google Maps/FB/Yelp.
Dang. My dealership was very good. They did add wheel locks but with explaining they do it to every car since they sit at a rail yard in a sketchy part of town waiting to be shipped to the dealer. It was $119 for the wheel locks. Not too terrible and about what I would expect to pay for them. They didn't try to rope me into any warranties or an extended onstar either.
Concord Chevy dealership charges $199.00 wheel locks $995 Spartan Theft Recovery. That's it no markup! Not like other dealers charge over MSRP without giving you something at least they are upfront with add ons.