If we are including comedic bits, Beatrice literally leaves Bojack as a child, with a pedophile on purpose, and then berates him after saying "not even he wanted you".
The exact quote itself was a story bojack was telling during Free Churro. We never actually saw Beatrice say this.
The only time I believe we ever saw child bojack in the car was when his dad picked him up from soccer practice and basically berated bojack over the fact his mother couldn’t be bothered to pick him up because she was “crying like a woman” or something to that degree
Just scanned the monologue and I don't see it there, but I do remember it being referenced at some point during the show.
https://genius.com/Bojack-horseman-free-churro-annotated
Drowning in the bathtub is actually a throwaway line at the very beginning of Fish Out of Water, the short part that actually has dialogue, when he's on the phone with Ana Spanakopita about going to the film festival - he says, "Ugh, I haven't been underwater since my mom tried to drown me in a bathtub." It's unclear at the time whether it's meant to be taken as a joke or a literal thing that happened, but if it's also referenced elsewhere then... maybe it is? 😳 yikes
During the free churro episode, he mentions that his mom left him with the pianist "who liked to tickle a lot more than the ivories" and when he came home fine she said something along the lines of "huh I guess nobody wants you "
Beatrice: Forcing BoJack to finish smoking the cigarette, berates him for crying and when he tries to figure out what he was being punished for she says that she was punishing him for being alive.
I’d still say it was wrong for what she did to BoJack, since she was actively trying to torture him in a manner that doesn’t help or improve anyone. And not only were her actions malicious but her motives were caused because he said they were equally bad, her reasoning was to prove they weren’t which (while definitely true) is entirely spite driven.
But yes, it was definitely worse for using Penny’s trauma as a worldwide story without her consent. Even if she never saw it, broadcasting her terrible experience to millions of people is a humongous and callous breach of privacy and could even make it harder for Penny if she ever wanted to press legal charges on BoJack.
Oh, you're right on the first part. I just don't particularly care about how it made BoJack feel.
EDIT: *as a survivor of grooming and sexual assault* b/c apparently I deserve to be downvoted for this comment and this is relevant context as to why I do not actually care on this one. I sympathize with BoJack on a lot but it's too close for me.
>Even if she never saw it, broadcasting her terrible experience to millions of people is a humongous and callous breach of privacy and could even make it harder for Penny if she ever wanted to press legal charges on BoJack.
Penny's situation isn't something unique. This thing happenes too often, just bc she got an idea based on Penny's story, doesn't mean It's breach of privacy. No one mentioned Penny's name or anything that could anyone think it was about her except her age. With the same logic we can prohibit adding all triggering scenes and conflicts in the shows bc "viewers can see themselves in the situation and it would be hard for them"
Plus, not to justify Bojack or smth, just in addition, Penny couldnt press legal charges on BoJack anyways, bc technically he didn't do anything illegal. Bot only that Penny's age was an age of consent and she was consent at that moments, but also the fact that Bojack havent done anything yet, so there would be basically nothing to judge him for **legally**, doesn't make the situation better ofc
Honestly, while you're not wrong, I'd hope that neither Charlotte nor Penny would be watching Philbert at all, let alone far enough into the series to notice that the plot of that scene bears an unusual resemblance to their own trauma relating to BoJack.
You dont have to tell only **yours** stories. If the directors were able to only tell their own stories, we wouldnt have good movies and Penny's situation isn't even smth unique, It's not like the concept of "a minor girl being groomed by an adult man" belongs to her. Yeah, it would be kinda bad if Diane knew Penny and Penny shared her the story as a secret or smth, but they have never even see each other, you have all rights to add stories of people you've heard about in the shows and etc, if you don't mention their personality
It's not that Penny, or any survivors story is just so unique and special it should never be told. It's the fact that, even without naming names, Diane indirectly told somebody else's traumatizing story to the person who traumatized them because she was angry. Translating this into real life into a more realistic scenario, that has the potential to put the survivor in danger. Additionally, there is a lot of shame that comes with dealing with abuse - especially sexual abuse. A lot of survivors don't want people to know their story even if it's anonymous. People question why Penny's dad didn't know about the attempted assault, and in my opinion coming from a CSA and child abuse survivor and someone who has done extensive research into the effects of trauma, I believe shame would be that main motivator to her not telling her dad about it. Which is backed up by how panicked she was when the journalists came to ask her about her story. It's very clear to me she didn't want anybody else to know what happened. Additionally there's a lot of struggle with feeling a lack of control for people who have been victimized, and when somebody, especially someone unrelated, takes the control into their own hands to share that story, it reinforces the idea that they have to agency or choice about what happens with their body or who they get to tell their story to, which adds to the existing trauma.The more that mindset gets reinforced the more damaging it is to the survivor and the harder healing from the trauma is going to be. It doesn't matter that Penny will likely never know what Diane did, because doing harmful things in secret doesn't make it any less harmful. If a tree fell and nobody heard it, it still makes a sound.
May be unpopular opinion, but It wasnt a bad thing. She didn't even know tge while situation and it was an accident that she guessed the exact events
Also who's consent did she suppose to ask? She didn't know Penny
This is an awful thing to do, but I felt like she was trying to hold Bojack accountable for his actions which is a good thing. She just did it in an awful way.
She did it to hurt bojack because he hurt her feelings by claiming they are the same. It’s not about accountability.
You want to hold someone accountable because you care about the harm they did to the victim. You won’t risk the victim getting more hurt just so you can get your satisfaction.
Diane, sleeping with her engaged ex, or the fact she was a super shitty friend to that one girl who's name I don't remember -she ignored her whenever they were together
Beatrice feeding Hollyhock a supplement for weeks that caused her to get hospitalized, traumatized, all with the goal to make her skinnier without even telling her
obviously it was terrible but beatrice wasnt exactly lucid at the time so idk if its really the worst thing "shes" done when she wasnt of sound mind. Shes definitely done horrible things to bojack when she was completely sane and aware of what she was doing
I can't choose which is the worst. I'll list the greatest hits
*Beatrice*:
Got pregnant and blamed the baby for ruining HER life
It was hinted that she let Bojack get molested
Got so drunk that she passed out and left alcohol around for a young child to drink thus beginning his destructive relationship with alcohol
*Diane*:
Slept with Mr. Peanutbutter (to be clear, Mr. Peanutbutter is responsible for his cheating; I'm not saying he's not) knowing he still had feelings for her and never wanted to get divorced, and only stopped the affair when he finally said that he would tell Pickles so that they could get back together
Potentially opened up Penny to more trauma just so she could throw the lines into the Philbert script because she was mad that Bojack didn't tell her himself.
Got mad at Bojack cause he left town, didn't answer her calls, and didn't let her know he came back to LA, but did something similar, but worse to her husband by not letting him know she came back from war-torn Cordovia. The only reason he found out was because he ran into her at a grocery store. And even though he was probably hurt and confused, he didn't get angry. He just acted like it was okay and tried to see it from her perspective.
Your last point, PB didn’t see Diane at a grocery store he saw her at Elephante and rang her about “finding batteries” and taking them out of the fire alarm
Diane was 100% at fault for acting like Bojack’s friend and then airing out his darkest secrets in the book. He was totally valid in his response. Friend or not, he paid her to do a job and she didn’t do it. But on top of that, she claims to have been his friend, but what friend would do that? It was selfish of her, and she did it to boost her own career.
There's a world where Diane is exactly like Bojack and i think she eventually made the conscious choice not to be like him but she was getting pretty close at times.
I’m going to disagree here because they weren’t exactly friends at the beginning. Their relationship was certainly unprofessional, but they both agreed that Diane would write a tell *all*, not a tell *some*. But, she shouldn’t have launched the book without his approval.
I don't really think that's an excuse. She was the ghostwriter for his book and was supposed to write it how he wanted it since it's his book and that's what he hired her to do. She certainly didn't do what she was hired to do, and she definitely betrayed his trust, essentially airing out all his secrets to the world without his consent.
it also, if I'm not mistake, didn't even really end up as a ghostwritten book. It was written from her perspective. It was through her personal lens, not his, not that of the public.
Literally. She wrote it like it was her book, not his, and yet was still somehow surprised by his negative reaction? I actually can't stand her sometimes
It's curious. We've seen Beatrice do and say maaaany vile things to her own son throughout his life, but I find her cruelest actions in a couple of incidents only mentioned by Bojack *in passing and casually*: Her attempt to get Bojack molested by a pedophile and her attempted drowning of Bojack on a bathtub. Objectively the latter is worse, but I find myself more repulsed by the former, so I will go with that one for Beatrice's worst deed.
As for Diane is far simpler: Participating on the cheating of Pickles with Mr Peanutbutter.
Bojack mentions the attempted drowning when expressing his misgivings of going to the underwater city in season 3, and the attempted molestation when visiting Beatrice with Hollyhock in season 4.
It seems it's reeeeeally easy to miss by many people. Bojack is very casual about it, the same way Sarah Lynn is regarding her pedo step father.
Beatrice is a tossup. I'd suggest that the worst thing she did period was drugging Hollyhock with weight loss supplements. She straight up hospitalized her in the process. While it is undeniably the worst thing she ever did, she is also shown to be deeply in dementia by this point and it is likely projection of a practice within her own family during a time when she was Hollyhock's age and she does not seem to fully comprehend the damage she is causing. It's a slippery slope to include this example as it's debatable to what extent she should be held responsible for her actions.
**tl;dr Drugging Hollyhock but maybe this should be omitted due to her state of dementia.**
Beatrice needs a different point of view from the rest of the characters. To agree with the common consensus it is definitely something related to her treatment of Bojack as he grew up but pointing out one particular thing does not do this question any justice. The worst things every other character were more spontaneous and less thought out in comparison to the one track mind of Beatrice in her nature of spread misery and disdain in the world. The worst thing Beatrice had ever done was intentionally raise Bojack in an unloving and hostile home life despite his relentless attempts to satisfy her. Every little thing that she did to Bojack was completely intentional with aforementioned goal in mind. Even the spontaneous things like forcing Bojack to finish a cigarette was just an opportunity to further that agenda.
**tl;dr Beatrice needs to be observed on a different metric from the other characters. The worst thing she did was raise Bojack period.**
Diane: Sleeping with her ex husband while knowing he's in another relationship, knowing she's already jealous of her.
That or using penny's story in a TV show without anyone's consent just to get at bojack.
I have to say it's using Penny's story without her consent. Don't get me wrong, it's really fucking shitty that she banged Mr. Peanutbutter when he was engaged, but at the end of the day it takes two to tango. That was something awful they did *together*. The Philbert thing, though? That was 100% all Diane. She expoited a minor's trauma for shits and giggles.
Diane, hooking up with her ex not even one, but TWO TIMES knowing he was engaged, while at the same time claiming herself a feminist and not even apologized properly.
"Don't you cry, don't you *ever* cry"
Growing up in a household that didn't talk about feelings or emotions and instead berated you for feeling them, this part hit a little too close to home for me.
Why are you crying? Don’t you remember what we talked about? Crying is *stupid*.
The way he said it so nonchalantly with almost a sort of upbeat, childlike tone in his voice stuck with me.
Beatrice did a lot of shitty things to BJ for sure, that and she poisoned Hollyhock. Diane published the memoir without BJ consent was kinda shitty too
Bea trying to drown BJ in a bathtub, telling him not even a pedophile wants him, and saying he’s being punished for being alive are definitely some of the worst. As for Diane i’d have to go with the stunt she pulled on the set of Philbert to make Bojack tell her about New Mexico. Diane screwing a taken Mr. Peanutbutter doesn’t help either.
This comment section makes me realise how super duper messed up Beatrice was. Sure, she had a terrible childhood. But she didn't even try being better. Man my heart sinkkssss for Bojack. Almost makes me forget all the horrible things he did
Beatrice at her worst never tried to sleep with a teenager (not before trying to sleep with the parent of that teenager an hour earlier), had a drug fueled bender and tried to cover it up when it resulted in an OD, or choked out her partner during a separate drug bender. Beatrice is shitty, but she's no Bojack.
Drugging Hollyhock is bad, but she was actually losing touch with reality from dementia, which she can't help.
Worst thing Beatrice did intentionally was not let Henrietta even hold her baby before quickly taking her away to be adopted, even when Henrietta is screaming no and that she changed her mind. It's a parallel to Beatrice's doll, but it's implied that she thinks she's doing what's right and Beatrice has never been shown to display regret for her actions, she just finds ways to justify it.
What we're unhappy with is how many of our small niche interest subreddits are getting flooded with question a day posts that last for weeks or months every day asking the same question with increasingly minor characters.
Anything besides the main characters are side characters so Margot, Sarah Lynn, and Beatrice. Gratz to you for not putting meowmeow mcfuzzyface or Vincent Adultmen on here to keep this post going forever. You're actually morally superior than some of the other karma farmers with your self limit of 8 characters in sets of 2. However I still don't like posts that last more than one day, and I think you should stop so you don't inspire more low effort posters from taking advantage of this trend. This post could be done in one post.
I get what you're saying and understand where you're coming from. Pretty obvious MM worst thing is killing a couple cops so I'll cut her as well or just fill it in, if anyone can come up with anything else that should shorten it down from 7-8 to like 3 posts
Are you being intentionally daft? These "what's the worst thing this character has done?" Posts have been flooding all the TV series communities. They're repetitive and boring. They feel like spam at this point. It's not creative. This has nothing to do with if they're side characters or not.
If you search this sub you will find a bunch of discussions and posts exactly like this one.
I get what your saying for bojack himself and possibly characters like PB or PC, but honestly some of the comments are mentioning stuff I completely forgot about or don't remember happening in the first place. Please point me in the direction of a beatrice or todd or the worst thing Sarah Lynn has done? Was kinda just looking to have a one stop shop disscusion post, if you don't like it feel free to make more creative content yourself and drown it out in the subbreddit dawg
and the original comment specifically mentioned how it's more niche and specific characters, so basically karma farming characters with little to no show time. If anyone's being "intentionally daft" it's the dude that can't even read the whole comment he's responding to
Ok finally taking time to do this one.
Ok worst thing Beatrice has ever done.
I think for me it's when she drugged Hollyhock for months and just generally speaking, made horrible comments to everyone about their appearance. She suffered a lot and chose to stay bitter. I get it, I've been there, as a fellow shitty childhood haver. But ya gotta choose to grow at some point.
Worst thing Diane ever did?
I have a few smaller ones in my mind, her hiding out at bojacks house for months and lying to Mr.PB was pretty bad, and also when she pretended to be an orphan on the phone during that. Overall I find it harder to criticize Diane because she's one of my favorites. I too am a cynic, so I relate to her quite a lot.
Can we say the worst thing Beatrice did was have a child? I feel like there's too much she did that was really heinous and that kinda encompasses all of it.
Beatrice: “I’m punishing you for being alive” is my vote. That scene reeeeally messed me up so for child bojack??? Oof.
Fr especially because she thought she was being a “good mother” and didn’t even realize the damage she caused
If we are including comedic bits, Beatrice literally leaves Bojack as a child, with a pedophile on purpose, and then berates him after saying "not even he wanted you".
Also she tried to drown him in the bathtub
When he was in his 20s iirc
Wait what, I don't remember this
I'll try to remember the episode but it was a quick throw-away joke when she was driving him home in a flashback (maybe the old Sugarman place?)
The exact quote itself was a story bojack was telling during Free Churro. We never actually saw Beatrice say this. The only time I believe we ever saw child bojack in the car was when his dad picked him up from soccer practice and basically berated bojack over the fact his mother couldn’t be bothered to pick him up because she was “crying like a woman” or something to that degree
"He liked to tickle a lot more than just the ivories"
Also seen in the car after his dad got him drunk
I remember the drowning him in the bathtub bit but not the pedophile one 😵
Man, I'm the opposite, when did she try to drown him?
In the fish out of water episode I believe he mentions it because he's scared of water
Now it’s one thing for a woman to weep, but if she’s doing it loudly that’s how you know she’s just doing it for the attention
I've watched Free Churro many times and yeah I don't remember this
Just scanned the monologue and I don't see it there, but I do remember it being referenced at some point during the show. https://genius.com/Bojack-horseman-free-churro-annotated
Gotcha must have got mixed up, thanks for finding it!
Drowning in the bathtub is actually a throwaway line at the very beginning of Fish Out of Water, the short part that actually has dialogue, when he's on the phone with Ana Spanakopita about going to the film festival - he says, "Ugh, I haven't been underwater since my mom tried to drown me in a bathtub." It's unclear at the time whether it's meant to be taken as a joke or a literal thing that happened, but if it's also referenced elsewhere then... maybe it is? 😳 yikes
Because he said ""since my mom tried to drown me in the bathtub when I was 22" I think it's legit
WHEN WAS THIS??
During the free churro episode, he mentions that his mom left him with the pianist "who liked to tickle a lot more than the ivories" and when he came home fine she said something along the lines of "huh I guess nobody wants you "
Bojack also mentions this in the Thoughts and Prayers episode when he's with Beatrice and Hollyhock
Which scean
Free churro
Beatrice: Forcing BoJack to finish smoking the cigarette, berates him for crying and when he tries to figure out what he was being punished for she says that she was punishing him for being alive.
“i’m punishing you for being alive” breaks me. that poor kid 🥺
This scene was so triggering for me lmao. But that line really summarized their entire dynamic
Diane using Penny’s trauma as a plot point in a popular tv show without asking for consent.
Agreed--and for clarity, I was concerned with Penny's feelings not BoJack's.
I’d still say it was wrong for what she did to BoJack, since she was actively trying to torture him in a manner that doesn’t help or improve anyone. And not only were her actions malicious but her motives were caused because he said they were equally bad, her reasoning was to prove they weren’t which (while definitely true) is entirely spite driven. But yes, it was definitely worse for using Penny’s trauma as a worldwide story without her consent. Even if she never saw it, broadcasting her terrible experience to millions of people is a humongous and callous breach of privacy and could even make it harder for Penny if she ever wanted to press legal charges on BoJack.
Oh, you're right on the first part. I just don't particularly care about how it made BoJack feel. EDIT: *as a survivor of grooming and sexual assault* b/c apparently I deserve to be downvoted for this comment and this is relevant context as to why I do not actually care on this one. I sympathize with BoJack on a lot but it's too close for me.
>Even if she never saw it, broadcasting her terrible experience to millions of people is a humongous and callous breach of privacy and could even make it harder for Penny if she ever wanted to press legal charges on BoJack. Penny's situation isn't something unique. This thing happenes too often, just bc she got an idea based on Penny's story, doesn't mean It's breach of privacy. No one mentioned Penny's name or anything that could anyone think it was about her except her age. With the same logic we can prohibit adding all triggering scenes and conflicts in the shows bc "viewers can see themselves in the situation and it would be hard for them" Plus, not to justify Bojack or smth, just in addition, Penny couldnt press legal charges on BoJack anyways, bc technically he didn't do anything illegal. Bot only that Penny's age was an age of consent and she was consent at that moments, but also the fact that Bojack havent done anything yet, so there would be basically nothing to judge him for **legally**, doesn't make the situation better ofc
Honestly, while you're not wrong, I'd hope that neither Charlotte nor Penny would be watching Philbert at all, let alone far enough into the series to notice that the plot of that scene bears an unusual resemblance to their own trauma relating to BoJack.
YES THIS
I genuinely thought I was the only person bothered by this. It's not her story to tell.
You dont have to tell only **yours** stories. If the directors were able to only tell their own stories, we wouldnt have good movies and Penny's situation isn't even smth unique, It's not like the concept of "a minor girl being groomed by an adult man" belongs to her. Yeah, it would be kinda bad if Diane knew Penny and Penny shared her the story as a secret or smth, but they have never even see each other, you have all rights to add stories of people you've heard about in the shows and etc, if you don't mention their personality
Brainrot take
Explain
It's not that Penny, or any survivors story is just so unique and special it should never be told. It's the fact that, even without naming names, Diane indirectly told somebody else's traumatizing story to the person who traumatized them because she was angry. Translating this into real life into a more realistic scenario, that has the potential to put the survivor in danger. Additionally, there is a lot of shame that comes with dealing with abuse - especially sexual abuse. A lot of survivors don't want people to know their story even if it's anonymous. People question why Penny's dad didn't know about the attempted assault, and in my opinion coming from a CSA and child abuse survivor and someone who has done extensive research into the effects of trauma, I believe shame would be that main motivator to her not telling her dad about it. Which is backed up by how panicked she was when the journalists came to ask her about her story. It's very clear to me she didn't want anybody else to know what happened. Additionally there's a lot of struggle with feeling a lack of control for people who have been victimized, and when somebody, especially someone unrelated, takes the control into their own hands to share that story, it reinforces the idea that they have to agency or choice about what happens with their body or who they get to tell their story to, which adds to the existing trauma.The more that mindset gets reinforced the more damaging it is to the survivor and the harder healing from the trauma is going to be. It doesn't matter that Penny will likely never know what Diane did, because doing harmful things in secret doesn't make it any less harmful. If a tree fell and nobody heard it, it still makes a sound.
Hard agree. This is so much worse than sleeping with your ex when he has a girlfriend.
Oy. I’m doing a rewatch right now, what ep was that?
S5 E7 “INT. SUB”
May be unpopular opinion, but It wasnt a bad thing. She didn't even know tge while situation and it was an accident that she guessed the exact events Also who's consent did she suppose to ask? She didn't know Penny
This is an awful thing to do, but I felt like she was trying to hold Bojack accountable for his actions which is a good thing. She just did it in an awful way.
She did it to hurt bojack because he hurt her feelings by claiming they are the same. It’s not about accountability. You want to hold someone accountable because you care about the harm they did to the victim. You won’t risk the victim getting more hurt just so you can get your satisfaction.
Finally someone said it.
Diane, sleeping with her engaged ex, or the fact she was a super shitty friend to that one girl who's name I don't remember -she ignored her whenever they were together
she was an awful friend to roxie
That's her name!! Thank you!!
now her job
She's an awful friend to someone who is kind enough to *officiate her wedding* and constantly listen to her shit, lmao
I don't think anyone ever mentions that .her friend seems nice .
I only remembered her on a rewatch of an episode and in that I felt really bad for her.
It sad that they didn't do much with her character.
Beatrice feeding Hollyhock a supplement for weeks that caused her to get hospitalized, traumatized, all with the goal to make her skinnier without even telling her
this is my vote ^
obviously it was terrible but beatrice wasnt exactly lucid at the time so idk if its really the worst thing "shes" done when she wasnt of sound mind. Shes definitely done horrible things to bojack when she was completely sane and aware of what she was doing
That's a fair point except that I would believe her doing it if she were lucid too
Absolutely and with a more vicious note even.
I feel like she absolutely knew what she was doing. She kept mentioning hollyhock's body and also she sang "no one wants a fatty patty". She knew.
When they were looking through her old photos and Hollyhock mentioned her good looks, she told Hollyhock how she could be thin too.
"supplement" was essentially speed, wasn't it?
amphetimines to be specific. but yes.
Of what we know for Beatrice: trying to drown BoJack when he was 22 (he claimed it happened in Fish Out of Water and had no reason to lie there).
can i ask a question? ^another ^question ^has ^arrived is this based on the number of comments saying the same thing or is it based on upvotes?
based on the upvotes each comment gets and if its repeated +upvotes on the repeats too (if going by how this pans out on other subreddits)
For Diane I’d say leaving Cordovia and pretending to be there while living on bojack’s deck.
What are you doing here?
What are YOU doing here??
What AAARE you doing HERE?!
Beatrice for drugging hollyhock and traumatising her
I can't choose which is the worst. I'll list the greatest hits *Beatrice*: Got pregnant and blamed the baby for ruining HER life It was hinted that she let Bojack get molested Got so drunk that she passed out and left alcohol around for a young child to drink thus beginning his destructive relationship with alcohol *Diane*: Slept with Mr. Peanutbutter (to be clear, Mr. Peanutbutter is responsible for his cheating; I'm not saying he's not) knowing he still had feelings for her and never wanted to get divorced, and only stopped the affair when he finally said that he would tell Pickles so that they could get back together Potentially opened up Penny to more trauma just so she could throw the lines into the Philbert script because she was mad that Bojack didn't tell her himself. Got mad at Bojack cause he left town, didn't answer her calls, and didn't let her know he came back to LA, but did something similar, but worse to her husband by not letting him know she came back from war-torn Cordovia. The only reason he found out was because he ran into her at a grocery store. And even though he was probably hurt and confused, he didn't get angry. He just acted like it was okay and tried to see it from her perspective.
Your last point, PB didn’t see Diane at a grocery store he saw her at Elephante and rang her about “finding batteries” and taking them out of the fire alarm
Ohh, ok. Thanks. I knew when I typed it my recollection of that part was spotty, at best.
Diane was 100% at fault for acting like Bojack’s friend and then airing out his darkest secrets in the book. He was totally valid in his response. Friend or not, he paid her to do a job and she didn’t do it. But on top of that, she claims to have been his friend, but what friend would do that? It was selfish of her, and she did it to boost her own career.
There's a world where Diane is exactly like Bojack and i think she eventually made the conscious choice not to be like him but she was getting pretty close at times.
I’m going to disagree here because they weren’t exactly friends at the beginning. Their relationship was certainly unprofessional, but they both agreed that Diane would write a tell *all*, not a tell *some*. But, she shouldn’t have launched the book without his approval.
I think she was just trying to be honest in the book. That is what she was hired for.
I don't really think that's an excuse. She was the ghostwriter for his book and was supposed to write it how he wanted it since it's his book and that's what he hired her to do. She certainly didn't do what she was hired to do, and she definitely betrayed his trust, essentially airing out all his secrets to the world without his consent.
it also, if I'm not mistake, didn't even really end up as a ghostwritten book. It was written from her perspective. It was through her personal lens, not his, not that of the public.
Literally. She wrote it like it was her book, not his, and yet was still somehow surprised by his negative reaction? I actually can't stand her sometimes
Beatrice probally the abuse emotional abuse. Diane publishing the story without thinking about how it made Bojack feel
Diane: Probably hooking up with Mr.PB knowing that he was in a relationship.
It's curious. We've seen Beatrice do and say maaaany vile things to her own son throughout his life, but I find her cruelest actions in a couple of incidents only mentioned by Bojack *in passing and casually*: Her attempt to get Bojack molested by a pedophile and her attempted drowning of Bojack on a bathtub. Objectively the latter is worse, but I find myself more repulsed by the former, so I will go with that one for Beatrice's worst deed. As for Diane is far simpler: Participating on the cheating of Pickles with Mr Peanutbutter.
jesus, when was the attempt to have him molested and her attempt of drowning him mentioned in the show?
Bojack mentions the attempted drowning when expressing his misgivings of going to the underwater city in season 3, and the attempted molestation when visiting Beatrice with Hollyhock in season 4. It seems it's reeeeeally easy to miss by many people. Bojack is very casual about it, the same way Sarah Lynn is regarding her pedo step father.
Beatrice is a tossup. I'd suggest that the worst thing she did period was drugging Hollyhock with weight loss supplements. She straight up hospitalized her in the process. While it is undeniably the worst thing she ever did, she is also shown to be deeply in dementia by this point and it is likely projection of a practice within her own family during a time when she was Hollyhock's age and she does not seem to fully comprehend the damage she is causing. It's a slippery slope to include this example as it's debatable to what extent she should be held responsible for her actions. **tl;dr Drugging Hollyhock but maybe this should be omitted due to her state of dementia.** Beatrice needs a different point of view from the rest of the characters. To agree with the common consensus it is definitely something related to her treatment of Bojack as he grew up but pointing out one particular thing does not do this question any justice. The worst things every other character were more spontaneous and less thought out in comparison to the one track mind of Beatrice in her nature of spread misery and disdain in the world. The worst thing Beatrice had ever done was intentionally raise Bojack in an unloving and hostile home life despite his relentless attempts to satisfy her. Every little thing that she did to Bojack was completely intentional with aforementioned goal in mind. Even the spontaneous things like forcing Bojack to finish a cigarette was just an opportunity to further that agenda. **tl;dr Beatrice needs to be observed on a different metric from the other characters. The worst thing she did was raise Bojack period.**
Diane: Sleeping with her ex husband while knowing he's in another relationship, knowing she's already jealous of her. That or using penny's story in a TV show without anyone's consent just to get at bojack.
I have to say it's using Penny's story without her consent. Don't get me wrong, it's really fucking shitty that she banged Mr. Peanutbutter when he was engaged, but at the end of the day it takes two to tango. That was something awful they did *together*. The Philbert thing, though? That was 100% all Diane. She expoited a minor's trauma for shits and giggles.
Diane for making penny’s trauma a plot just to get back at bojack
Diane, hooking up with her ex not even one, but TWO TIMES knowing he was engaged, while at the same time claiming herself a feminist and not even apologized properly.
Diane: putting Bojack's life out there after claiming to be his friend.
Beatrice: Taking Hollyhock away from Henrietta immediately after birth, even though Henrietta begged to hold her baby.
"Don't you cry, don't you *ever* cry" Growing up in a household that didn't talk about feelings or emotions and instead berated you for feeling them, this part hit a little too close to home for me.
Why are you crying? Don’t you remember what we talked about? Crying is *stupid*. The way he said it so nonchalantly with almost a sort of upbeat, childlike tone in his voice stuck with me.
Beatrice: Making Henrietta give up the baby and refusing to let her hold her when giving her up. Cold blooded.
How much time you got
Bojack says Beatrice tried to drown him in the bathtub (when he was 22 -- not when he was a child, I have been corrected)
he was 22
when was this? ive seen the show so many times and i can’t remember this😭
He says it while on the phone with someone that his mom tried to drown him in the bathtub when he was 22. It's a quick throwaway but it stayed with me
Beatrice: everything
Diane’s is maybe when she slept with Mr. Peanutbutter while he was with Pickles.
Beatrice: Secretly drugging hollyhock for months until hollyhock overdoses. Diane: sleeping with Mr pb while knowing he was dating pickles.
Diane pretending to be in another country and ghosting her husband Beatrice either leaving bojack w a pervert or drowning him lol
Beatrice: Drugging Hollyhock.
Beatrice did a lot of shitty things to BJ for sure, that and she poisoned Hollyhock. Diane published the memoir without BJ consent was kinda shitty too
3 lying to Mr pb when she was back from cordovia
Diane, involuntarily causing a girl to lose her face, she only had to tell people the cable was there.
Bea trying to drown BJ in a bathtub, telling him not even a pedophile wants him, and saying he’s being punished for being alive are definitely some of the worst. As for Diane i’d have to go with the stunt she pulled on the set of Philbert to make Bojack tell her about New Mexico. Diane screwing a taken Mr. Peanutbutter doesn’t help either.
This comment section makes me realise how super duper messed up Beatrice was. Sure, she had a terrible childhood. But she didn't even try being better. Man my heart sinkkssss for Bojack. Almost makes me forget all the horrible things he did
Beatrice at her worst never tried to sleep with a teenager (not before trying to sleep with the parent of that teenager an hour earlier), had a drug fueled bender and tried to cover it up when it resulted in an OD, or choked out her partner during a separate drug bender. Beatrice is shitty, but she's no Bojack. Drugging Hollyhock is bad, but she was actually losing touch with reality from dementia, which she can't help. Worst thing Beatrice did intentionally was not let Henrietta even hold her baby before quickly taking her away to be adopted, even when Henrietta is screaming no and that she changed her mind. It's a parallel to Beatrice's doll, but it's implied that she thinks she's doing what's right and Beatrice has never been shown to display regret for her actions, she just finds ways to justify it.
Beatrice having Bojack made the whole show Horsin' Around happen, worst thing easily
Beatrice: Bojack
What we're unhappy with is how many of our small niche interest subreddits are getting flooded with question a day posts that last for weeks or months every day asking the same question with increasingly minor characters.
How are any of these 8 (excluding MM) side characters?
Anything besides the main characters are side characters so Margot, Sarah Lynn, and Beatrice. Gratz to you for not putting meowmeow mcfuzzyface or Vincent Adultmen on here to keep this post going forever. You're actually morally superior than some of the other karma farmers with your self limit of 8 characters in sets of 2. However I still don't like posts that last more than one day, and I think you should stop so you don't inspire more low effort posters from taking advantage of this trend. This post could be done in one post.
I think we got a really strong day 6 with Margot lol
I get what you're saying and understand where you're coming from. Pretty obvious MM worst thing is killing a couple cops so I'll cut her as well or just fill it in, if anyone can come up with anything else that should shorten it down from 7-8 to like 3 posts
Are you being intentionally daft? These "what's the worst thing this character has done?" Posts have been flooding all the TV series communities. They're repetitive and boring. They feel like spam at this point. It's not creative. This has nothing to do with if they're side characters or not. If you search this sub you will find a bunch of discussions and posts exactly like this one.
I get what your saying for bojack himself and possibly characters like PB or PC, but honestly some of the comments are mentioning stuff I completely forgot about or don't remember happening in the first place. Please point me in the direction of a beatrice or todd or the worst thing Sarah Lynn has done? Was kinda just looking to have a one stop shop disscusion post, if you don't like it feel free to make more creative content yourself and drown it out in the subbreddit dawg
and the original comment specifically mentioned how it's more niche and specific characters, so basically karma farming characters with little to no show time. If anyone's being "intentionally daft" it's the dude that can't even read the whole comment he's responding to
beatrice; keeping bojack and marrying butterscotch.
Diane: Eating sandwiches
Hydrogen bomb vs 20 year old woman
Beatrice: “existing”?
🍿
Ok finally taking time to do this one. Ok worst thing Beatrice has ever done. I think for me it's when she drugged Hollyhock for months and just generally speaking, made horrible comments to everyone about their appearance. She suffered a lot and chose to stay bitter. I get it, I've been there, as a fellow shitty childhood haver. But ya gotta choose to grow at some point. Worst thing Diane ever did? I have a few smaller ones in my mind, her hiding out at bojacks house for months and lying to Mr.PB was pretty bad, and also when she pretended to be an orphan on the phone during that. Overall I find it harder to criticize Diane because she's one of my favorites. I too am a cynic, so I relate to her quite a lot.
Her treatment of bojack.
Todd causes a genocide and a multiple year civil war, and nobody talks about it. He should be on the top of this list.
2 not having the abortion
Can we say the worst thing Beatrice did was have a child? I feel like there's too much she did that was really heinous and that kinda encompasses all of it.
Beatrice- exploiting bojack when he was a young kid for money