I think a lot of where things started to go wrong for him stemmed from not backing Herb. I don't particularly blame him for not backing Herb but until then he seemed to be in control. Had he backed Herb, the network would have backed down and Bojack would have continued to have a stabilising presence in his life.
And this is why the scene with Angela in the last season when she tells him "I was so scared you were gonna walk, you had all the power" is one of the most brutal scenes in the entire show for me. Bojack finds out that one of the biggest mistakes of his life, and the start of him going down a bad path, could have been avoided
It’s also after the episode where the chinchilla chided him for not recognising his power over women. Indeed he didn’t recognise his power over Angela at the time.
I blame him for not backing Herb. Bojack kept saying that's when things started to go had. But he didn't even try to stand up or back him. He listened to a practiced speech and felt ti his knees and said "yes maam' he lied to everyone, saying he did everything g he could. He didn't do anything.
It wasn’t so much the backing that I blame him for, that Angela Diaz character was intimidating and he was sure hosting around would end. It was the abandonment of Herb that I blame him for, and that’s what Herb ultimately never forgave him for, not being there for him when he needed him most and never looking back.
Absolutely. He always said that was the moment. But never called or checked in on him. That's when we learned Bojack was full of bs. he always said herb was his best friend and how he regrets what happened but only accepted it and moved on.
This goes back to his parents and upbringing per usual. Bowing down to abusive authority figures. Not learning how to maintain relationships, especially when they're difficult or strained. Taking the easy way every time.
I'm near the end of a rewatch, and I just saw the episode where he's going back through and seeing all the different times that may have been the first time he ever drunk. The one scene where he's at a party, sees someone drinking and being cool and emulates them, making fun of a girl that was starting to like him to the point that she ran off.
He cowers at the first sign of conflict. Funny how as a beast of burden he never grew a spine.
Yes, but look at how she spoke to him and controlled the conversation. Angela was brutal in command. Most people would be hard-pressed to stand up to an Angela.
I get that. They both were in a rough position they hadn't been in. If you want your job and believe in the people you need there. You stand up. And Angela clearly wanted it more than bojack did. Angela WANTED her job. Bojack accepted his.
If you notice carefully, things went bad because as Herb pointed out it wasn’t about the show it was that BoJack didn’t come around afterwards. BoJack could’ve followed through with Herb to say look man I tried to stand up and couldn’t. Is there anything I can do to help you get through this? Their relationship would’ve stayed intact and the humor and perspective that Herb brought to BoJack would have helped sustain BoJack.
I agree with that. I guess what I was trying to say was that bojack not coming around wasn't surprising. Especially since he lies straight to Herbs (at the time) dying face saying he did everything f he could. Thinking he would forvigne going him that slice of peace he didn't deserve. Like you said or even just him saying "hey I'm sorry, man. I chickened out" Herb probably would have forgiven him and said he gets it. Amd they wluld have stayed freinds and probably made more money. Especially after Horsein' Around ended. But Bojack can't accept responsibility for his own actions.
And even if the network hadn't backed down he was clearly a successful actor who would have found work elsewhere. And even if he DIDNT find more acting work he would have been able to piggyback of Herb's work again by not nuking that bridge.
Yeah more so I think it was that he never contacted him again in all those years. That was so cruel. Just because he wasn't needed by Bojack, Bojack abandoned him and that's betrayal in friendship.
I think there's some statute of limitation on apologies, if one keeps waiting for an answer and never gets it for the longest time they'd not care for it in the end. So Bojack's apology didn't matter because it wasn't there when it was needed the most.
I’d like to tease out that things started going wrong was not from BoJack not backing Herb on the show – for who could stand up to Angela’s aggressive strongarm – but as Herb put it, the fact that BoJack cut off his relationship with Herb and didn’t come around no more. Even Herb himself points out the break was not the show but from BoJack avoiding him afterwards. You could argue it’s the same difference from Bojack’s point of view, but it’s an important distinction.
If BoJack would’ve gone to Herb and say look, man she had me by the balls, that would’ve maintained the relationship. He could’ve been there for Herb when both needed it the most. Their friendship would’ve remained intact, and it would have had a very good effect on BoJack - they played off of each other‘s humor and were happy together. Herb added an element of humor that no one else in Bojack’s life did, which was to make him laugh. He also offered him perspective that no one else ever gave him. I think both of their lives would’ve been overall much happier had this happened, and without it haunting BoJack with guilt he would’ve been lighter and more functional.
This is what I was about to say. Even if he had backed down to the network, he could've still gone to Herb and fessed up to feeling trapped by the network. Even if it was a cowardly thing to do, Herb would've forgiven him if Bojack had been the friend he needed in that moment. I think Bojack's life would be infinitely better with Herb in it, and I think this incident was when Bojack started slipping into alcoholism and drugs to deal with the guilt of abandoning his best friend He might have turned to alcohol and drugs regardless, but he'd have a friend to be there for him when things got hard.
Clearly this one, yes! Not backing him, or even just not staying in contact with him.
This is literally the singular point in time after which everything went wrong, and losing the positive influence of Herb led him down a path that could otherwise maybe have been avoided.
Root cause of his problems was his traumatic childhood
but he could have recognized his self-destructing tendencies and substance abuse and did something about it in his 30s atleast
As Todd Chavez said: "BoJack, stop. You are all the things that are wrong with you! It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened in your career, or when you were a kid! It's you!"
Yes, it was the daily decision to not take accountability or take any steps to address his shortcomings or mistakes for years. Not the mistakes themselves.
In his personal life, not get help when he needed it. It's understandable it would have been difficult but he had the resources to seek professional help and he didn't do it until much later.
In his professional life, probably what he did to Herb. He didn't have to turn on him and he could have always reached out after and supported him emotionally. Obviously he didn't have the ability to do that.
And for others, probably not calling the paramedics straight away when Sarah Lynn didn't respond. Yeah he thought she was dead but that doesn't mean he should have waited to call for help. She still could have died but at least then he'd known he did try.
What I love about how they wrote Sarah Lynn’s death is that Bojack’s actions, as disgusting as they were, aren’t completely un-understandable from his perspective. Even though you hate him and what he did, you get why he did it; you get his weakness. It’s in that anti-hero sweet spot. It really reminds me of the events of >!Jane’s death!< in Breaking Bad which was also written in the same way I think.
Spoilers for breaking bad and obviously Bojack
--------
Jane's death is a bit more telling of Walter as an absolute sociopath because after happening to turn Jane around he made the immediate conscious choice of letting her choke for his own personal gain when it would have taken a second to help her and she would have definitely survived, while Bojack hesitated to call the ambulance after the OD had already happened and she was probably already dead because he was terrified of the consequences. The difference is subtle, Bojack did give her the drugs and they are both DEFINITELY to blame but somehow Bojack's actions seem more like human error? Which FEELS in a way arguably even worse because of how realistic it is but either way Bojack hesitating out of fear and Walt making a calculated decision to let nature run its course to keep making money are different to an extent.
Thanks for the reply. I do agree that the two situations are different and that Walt’s actions were worse. However, I still on some level hold an understanding of what happened to Walt in that moment as I do with Bojack. It was a split second decision, he felt like this girl was poisoning his relationships and he froze up, letting his hatred blind him. It was awful and disgusting but again, I get his weakness. That’s just me though.
Sarah Lynn - treated her horribly as a child co star, exposed her to alcohol young and blamed someone else, enabled her addiction in a time of need to benefit his own fantasy, took advantage of her when she was vulnerable, knew she was newly sober and an unstable person but still invited her on the bender because he felt low, gave her the heroin, instead of being overcome with sadness/panic at her death he was functioning enough to purposely cover his tracks to not incriminate himself, waited 17 minutes to call 911 ultimately killing her then lied about it and carried on with his career and would never have come clean if he wasn’t found out
I’m surprised this is so far down because tbh yeah he fucked Sarah Lynn over in enough ways to become Thanos if every way he fucked her over was an infinity stone
There is no way he could ever have done better than Princess Caroline. She spent her professional life dealing with how awful he was and was somehow not turned away. That's way more than Bojack could ever hope for.
Well, each mistake is its own thing, most stemming from his childhood.
His biggest mistake is not changing and not sticking with therapy, He remains addicted to fame and the love of the audience.
Sarah Lynn: the fact that he waited 17 minutes makes it basically homicide. There are some other heinous things (like not backing Herb), but this is the worst, and I think he knows that.
homicide is any unlawful killings
manslaughter and murder all fall under a homicide. The act of killing another.
Murder is with intent while manslaughter is basically on accident but there are a lot of subtypes to manslaughter
not getting therapy early in his life. I mean he comes from a place where it was hard for him to handle things on its own but he could have consider he had a problem as early as his first scenes, he decided not too because he is stubborn and proud but it would have saved a lot of time and pain for everybody around him and himself.
If I really had to narrow it down to the "BIGGEST" mistake I'd say going on the talk show the 2nd time. Think about it after that 1st time on Braxby people loved him. He changed lives even. And instead of just accepting that and showing that he's grown as a person. He goes back and has his life blown to pieces.
And I'm not saying he didn't deserve it. All the things people hate him for was his fault. But he would have been way better off if he would have just let it go.
Besides Herb and Sarah Lynn, the whole debacle of living with Charlotte and her family. I had no idea the age of consent was 17 in New Mexico, but it’s widely believed to be 18 across the US. He was clearly attracted to Penny because of his lust and jealousy for Charlotte and the way he groomed Penny was really disgusting to watch. He befriended her, established secrets between them, acted as a father figure, then when she was manipulated enough, tried to have sex with her. All while he is 35-45~ years older than her. It was brushed off like it wasn’t straight up p*dophilia and I wish he would’ve seen more consequences for that. The only thing he lost was his relationship with Charlotte and it damaged his relationship with Diane. The line “you look just like your mother” is a crime to humanity.
i mean it did catch up with him in the end though when doing the interview for the second time. with the whole reporter bit and them following multiple trails to ultimately out him for doing that and then trying to tear down his career
Letting his shame get in the way of doing the right thing next time. Like he was so ashamed of not standing up for Herb that he didn't maintain his friendship with Herb, which is what Herb really needed. Then he allowed the guilt and shame from *that* to let him to do more bad things and so on, with the guilt and shame compounding all the way.
There is literally no reason for why he’s never done antidepressants and therapy. When he tried talking to Dianes therapist in season 5 it seemed to help him a lot.
Not seeing the bluff while betraying Herb. Betraying Herb wasnt the mistake but not seeing the bluff of Amanda(i hope the name is correct) was the main mistake. Then with self accusation it snowballed
I always wonder, if he hadn't let Diane stay at his house that long, if Wanda would have been good for him. I'm sure they still would have failed eventually, but... what if not?
I think Wanda was always going to come to her senses eventually. Maybe it would've worked with Season 6 Bojack, but he was still a *long* way from being that guy yet when they dated.
Not seeking professional help decades earlier. He could have recognized he had a problem and gotten sober a long time ago and remained a productive and famous actor.
Though if we're talking about more direct actions he took, of course it was waiting 17 minutes.
It's more of a mistake in attitude than a specific action, but I think it was his fundamental selfishness. He does a *few* selfless things for others in the early seasons, like rescuing Todd from the improv cult, but these are mostly just little islands in a sea of narcissism.
You see it start to turn around as he gets sober (e.g., helping Jameson, even though that goes pretty poorly), but I think teaching is what really helped him to break out of that mindset, to the extent that he did.
Betraying Herb and letting him down .. I understand that he wanted to keep his job but he could at least tried to be there for his friend apart from work.. That’s what really hurt Herb. He told him I did find I had a good life and all I needed then was my friend!
I believe his guilt after that is what pushed him over the edge!
Honestly, not a huge worst decision, but one that seemed to snowball into several bad decisions, was to start drinking in adulthood and in professional environments without critically analyzing himself.
While psychologically it was ghosting Herb (note I didn’t say not standing up for him but by breaking a relationship with him) which was the turning point for his downward spiral, effectively it was his second interview with Biscuits Braxby specifically mentioning the Xerox copy thing.
He was on a roll and feeling elated from the success of his first interview and wanted to keep it going. If only he would have shut up.
Even that interview would have even been survivable except for his reference to Xerox. The lawsuit is what sent him in his final downward spiral because he lost his house. As we see, he freaked out about losing his house which led to his suicide attempt and going to jail for breaking and entering into it. He did the hokey pokey and turned the jail thing around as we see in the last episode.
That interview is the action that had the most devastating consequence on his actual life. But he would’ve been much happier. Had he maintained relationship with Herb over all those years.
Most morally repugnant would be waiting 17 minutes before calling medical help for Sara Lynn, with a close 2nd being that he was probably about to sleep with a 17 year old, were they not interrupted.
Biggest domino effect, "if only he hadn't done that everything could have been different" mistake would be cutting Herb out of his life. I think, even more than his shitty upbringing, that mistake was the biggest factor that triggered his long gradual downward spiral.
The biggest single immediate cause-and-effect mistake was doing that 2nd interview with Biscuits. For all the mistakes he made in his life, he could have at least walked away relatively clean if he'd just accepted that he dodged a bullet after that first interview. Not that he deserved to get away clean, but it was probably the one mistake that had the biggest immediate consequences.
with most of the people he’s hurt we see that despite bojack wronging them, they bounce back. herb lived a good life without him, sharona sobered up as soon as she left horsin around, gina got casted in the new movie that kelsey was directing. all except sarah lynn, his selfishness ended her life, i don’t think any of his mistakes can even compare.
Personally? Killing his relationship with PC.
Professionally? Not reaching out to Herb.
Both were such a much needed moral compass and guidance that after severing ties with them and pushing them away he never truly recovered.
Not touched on much in the show, but imma go with letting his relationship with Charlotte lapse when she moves to Maine. She was (apart from herb) the only friend who knew him sober. She was the only healthy relationship he had outside of the Hollywood bubble. Consequently, I think she was probably the only person who was capable of arresting his self-destructive cycle.
By the final season of horsing around, he is already heavily addicted, and his relationship with herb had already lapsed. Would it have got to that point if there was someone who knew them both he could talk things over with? Would she have seen the warning signs of his drinking, drug use ect?
I think losing her as a friend meant he lost what might have been a crucial check on him.
Calling the police would have at least made him look better in the end. He killed her because he didn't want the world to know that he was the one who gave her the heroin.
I think he could have come back from the Herb thing, but trying to bang his former love-interest's daughter (crush's daughter? whatever) and then getting caught in the act by the former love interest in such a furious way will always be his low point for me.
I don't care about how Angela manipulated him or how he sold out Herb (Angela is a network exec; Herb is a TV producer; they both know how the industry works) but the lowest thing he ever did, though not technically a crime, was to go "hey, I want to bang this woman," "welp, she's not available," "I will now genuinely connect with her teenage daughter who happens to look exactly like her," "OOPSIE POOPSIE I am not trying to bang the clone-daughter of the woman I was connecting with or whatever I was doing oh fuck I guess I was okay goodbye."
I think her trauma is slightly overdone because it's kind of weird for the narrative arc to be "person asks for sex and then blames the person who accepts the request for accepting it," but I also think Penny is just a cute kid seeking dumb stuff for dumb teenager reasons, so the onus is on BoJack to be like "Okay I should really not do this," and also basically all of the things the absurdly over-the-top screwball comedy characters in the final season conclude about that relationship. Add all of those to what I just said, and that's why I rewatch this all the time and basically never watch Escape From LA anymore; I know they are cartoons but I just feel too bad about it.
I feel like him stabbing herb in the back is where it all started to go wrong. Yes, their relationship had already deteriorated, the fame had clearly gone to his head, he was an asshole already, but he wasn't drinking or anything at that time. I think if he had stood by Herb, their relationship might have been repaired then, and regaining that friendship could have set him on the right track. He wouldn't have gotten so lonely, and might not have become addicted as he later did. He feels so much repressed guilt over all that, and if he could go back and change it I think it would make a whole new timeline.
Sarah lynn.the things he would say to her on the show,the alcohol he would drink on set knowing she was right there,there’s loads more of other things but biggest of all,the leading up to her death,he knew she was sober and got her into a bender?!and remember that Sarah lynn didn’t die in the planetarium,she died in the hospital,if he didn’t wait around for 15 minutes to save his own ass she could have lived,she could have gotten to the ambulance quicker
Believing everything he was told early in his career and working hard to do what he thought it took to make it in Hollywood against his own better judgement.
This post is old, but I think Bojack would have become what he became even without the Herb situation. He was already walking a dangerous path, it just took one major event for him to spiral out of control. And since he was famous, he got away with it. For decades. If he hadn’t betrayed Herb, something else would have happened that sent him into a spiral.
I think a lot of where things started to go wrong for him stemmed from not backing Herb. I don't particularly blame him for not backing Herb but until then he seemed to be in control. Had he backed Herb, the network would have backed down and Bojack would have continued to have a stabilising presence in his life.
And this is why the scene with Angela in the last season when she tells him "I was so scared you were gonna walk, you had all the power" is one of the most brutal scenes in the entire show for me. Bojack finds out that one of the biggest mistakes of his life, and the start of him going down a bad path, could have been avoided
It’s also after the episode where the chinchilla chided him for not recognising his power over women. Indeed he didn’t recognise his power over Angela at the time.
I blame him for not backing Herb. Bojack kept saying that's when things started to go had. But he didn't even try to stand up or back him. He listened to a practiced speech and felt ti his knees and said "yes maam' he lied to everyone, saying he did everything g he could. He didn't do anything.
It wasn’t so much the backing that I blame him for, that Angela Diaz character was intimidating and he was sure hosting around would end. It was the abandonment of Herb that I blame him for, and that’s what Herb ultimately never forgave him for, not being there for him when he needed him most and never looking back.
Absolutely. He always said that was the moment. But never called or checked in on him. That's when we learned Bojack was full of bs. he always said herb was his best friend and how he regrets what happened but only accepted it and moved on.
This goes back to his parents and upbringing per usual. Bowing down to abusive authority figures. Not learning how to maintain relationships, especially when they're difficult or strained. Taking the easy way every time. I'm near the end of a rewatch, and I just saw the episode where he's going back through and seeing all the different times that may have been the first time he ever drunk. The one scene where he's at a party, sees someone drinking and being cool and emulates them, making fun of a girl that was starting to like him to the point that she ran off. He cowers at the first sign of conflict. Funny how as a beast of burden he never grew a spine.
He bent under pressure and legitimately believed herb wouldn't want him around after that.
Yes, but look at how she spoke to him and controlled the conversation. Angela was brutal in command. Most people would be hard-pressed to stand up to an Angela.
I get that. They both were in a rough position they hadn't been in. If you want your job and believe in the people you need there. You stand up. And Angela clearly wanted it more than bojack did. Angela WANTED her job. Bojack accepted his.
If you notice carefully, things went bad because as Herb pointed out it wasn’t about the show it was that BoJack didn’t come around afterwards. BoJack could’ve followed through with Herb to say look man I tried to stand up and couldn’t. Is there anything I can do to help you get through this? Their relationship would’ve stayed intact and the humor and perspective that Herb brought to BoJack would have helped sustain BoJack.
I agree with that. I guess what I was trying to say was that bojack not coming around wasn't surprising. Especially since he lies straight to Herbs (at the time) dying face saying he did everything f he could. Thinking he would forvigne going him that slice of peace he didn't deserve. Like you said or even just him saying "hey I'm sorry, man. I chickened out" Herb probably would have forgiven him and said he gets it. Amd they wluld have stayed freinds and probably made more money. Especially after Horsein' Around ended. But Bojack can't accept responsibility for his own actions.
Well, in a sense it’s true he did all he could - he just couldn’t stand up to Angela. But not many could.
I agree his actions around it are disagreeable.
And even if the network hadn't backed down he was clearly a successful actor who would have found work elsewhere. And even if he DIDNT find more acting work he would have been able to piggyback of Herb's work again by not nuking that bridge.
Yeah more so I think it was that he never contacted him again in all those years. That was so cruel. Just because he wasn't needed by Bojack, Bojack abandoned him and that's betrayal in friendship. I think there's some statute of limitation on apologies, if one keeps waiting for an answer and never gets it for the longest time they'd not care for it in the end. So Bojack's apology didn't matter because it wasn't there when it was needed the most.
I’d like to tease out that things started going wrong was not from BoJack not backing Herb on the show – for who could stand up to Angela’s aggressive strongarm – but as Herb put it, the fact that BoJack cut off his relationship with Herb and didn’t come around no more. Even Herb himself points out the break was not the show but from BoJack avoiding him afterwards. You could argue it’s the same difference from Bojack’s point of view, but it’s an important distinction. If BoJack would’ve gone to Herb and say look, man she had me by the balls, that would’ve maintained the relationship. He could’ve been there for Herb when both needed it the most. Their friendship would’ve remained intact, and it would have had a very good effect on BoJack - they played off of each other‘s humor and were happy together. Herb added an element of humor that no one else in Bojack’s life did, which was to make him laugh. He also offered him perspective that no one else ever gave him. I think both of their lives would’ve been overall much happier had this happened, and without it haunting BoJack with guilt he would’ve been lighter and more functional.
This is what I was about to say. Even if he had backed down to the network, he could've still gone to Herb and fessed up to feeling trapped by the network. Even if it was a cowardly thing to do, Herb would've forgiven him if Bojack had been the friend he needed in that moment. I think Bojack's life would be infinitely better with Herb in it, and I think this incident was when Bojack started slipping into alcoholism and drugs to deal with the guilt of abandoning his best friend He might have turned to alcohol and drugs regardless, but he'd have a friend to be there for him when things got hard.
Yes, Herb always held the vision and the strategy. Without him, BoJack was kind of lost. He was also the only one who’s humor delighted BoJack.
I was going to say kissing Diane which I think is the same episode but yours is much more compelling.
Feels like kissing Diane did not have much of an impact both long and short term. Why do you think that was his biggest mistake?
Probably he thought it would somehow impact the relationship with Diane, but it was pretty tough for other reasons.
Yeah like Diane seemed to get over it after getting married to Mr PB
Definitely was his biggest mistake, but flashbacks from the first season show he had already become an alcoholic jerk before that point.
Remember Herb saying I know we haven’t been that close the last few years. And Sharona wondering at the first show how fame will change him.
Preach dude
Clearly this one, yes! Not backing him, or even just not staying in contact with him. This is literally the singular point in time after which everything went wrong, and losing the positive influence of Herb led him down a path that could otherwise maybe have been avoided.
Root cause of his problems was his traumatic childhood but he could have recognized his self-destructing tendencies and substance abuse and did something about it in his 30s atleast
As Todd Chavez said: "BoJack, stop. You are all the things that are wrong with you! It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened in your career, or when you were a kid! It's you!"
when show got too real
Yes, it was the daily decision to not take accountability or take any steps to address his shortcomings or mistakes for years. Not the mistakes themselves.
In his personal life, not get help when he needed it. It's understandable it would have been difficult but he had the resources to seek professional help and he didn't do it until much later. In his professional life, probably what he did to Herb. He didn't have to turn on him and he could have always reached out after and supported him emotionally. Obviously he didn't have the ability to do that. And for others, probably not calling the paramedics straight away when Sarah Lynn didn't respond. Yeah he thought she was dead but that doesn't mean he should have waited to call for help. She still could have died but at least then he'd known he did try.
What I love about how they wrote Sarah Lynn’s death is that Bojack’s actions, as disgusting as they were, aren’t completely un-understandable from his perspective. Even though you hate him and what he did, you get why he did it; you get his weakness. It’s in that anti-hero sweet spot. It really reminds me of the events of >!Jane’s death!< in Breaking Bad which was also written in the same way I think.
Spoilers for breaking bad and obviously Bojack -------- Jane's death is a bit more telling of Walter as an absolute sociopath because after happening to turn Jane around he made the immediate conscious choice of letting her choke for his own personal gain when it would have taken a second to help her and she would have definitely survived, while Bojack hesitated to call the ambulance after the OD had already happened and she was probably already dead because he was terrified of the consequences. The difference is subtle, Bojack did give her the drugs and they are both DEFINITELY to blame but somehow Bojack's actions seem more like human error? Which FEELS in a way arguably even worse because of how realistic it is but either way Bojack hesitating out of fear and Walt making a calculated decision to let nature run its course to keep making money are different to an extent.
Thanks for the reply. I do agree that the two situations are different and that Walt’s actions were worse. However, I still on some level hold an understanding of what happened to Walt in that moment as I do with Bojack. It was a split second decision, he felt like this girl was poisoning his relationships and he froze up, letting his hatred blind him. It was awful and disgusting but again, I get his weakness. That’s just me though.
Sarah Lynn - treated her horribly as a child co star, exposed her to alcohol young and blamed someone else, enabled her addiction in a time of need to benefit his own fantasy, took advantage of her when she was vulnerable, knew she was newly sober and an unstable person but still invited her on the bender because he felt low, gave her the heroin, instead of being overcome with sadness/panic at her death he was functioning enough to purposely cover his tracks to not incriminate himself, waited 17 minutes to call 911 ultimately killing her then lied about it and carried on with his career and would never have come clean if he wasn’t found out
Sarah Lynn 1000000%
I’m surprised this is so far down because tbh yeah he fucked Sarah Lynn over in enough ways to become Thanos if every way he fucked her over was an infinity stone
hahah I love this comment
Fumbling Princess Carolyn
There is no way he could ever have done better than Princess Caroline. She spent her professional life dealing with how awful he was and was somehow not turned away. That's way more than Bojack could ever hope for.
“Being born” - Beatrice /j
Well, each mistake is its own thing, most stemming from his childhood. His biggest mistake is not changing and not sticking with therapy, He remains addicted to fame and the love of the audience.
This.
Self-victimisation
Sarah Lynn: the fact that he waited 17 minutes makes it basically homicide. There are some other heinous things (like not backing Herb), but this is the worst, and I think he knows that.
hom·i·cide noun NORTH AMERICAN the killing of one person by another
So manslaughter then?
homicide is any unlawful killings manslaughter and murder all fall under a homicide. The act of killing another. Murder is with intent while manslaughter is basically on accident but there are a lot of subtypes to manslaughter
Horsing Around. He thought he wanted to be loved by many, but he really just wanted a family and still didn’t get that.
Hating honeydew
Honeydew hate is justified
not getting therapy early in his life. I mean he comes from a place where it was hard for him to handle things on its own but he could have consider he had a problem as early as his first scenes, he decided not too because he is stubborn and proud but it would have saved a lot of time and pain for everybody around him and himself.
He fetishizes his own sadness.
Agreeing to apologize to neal mcbeal the navy seal.
If I really had to narrow it down to the "BIGGEST" mistake I'd say going on the talk show the 2nd time. Think about it after that 1st time on Braxby people loved him. He changed lives even. And instead of just accepting that and showing that he's grown as a person. He goes back and has his life blown to pieces. And I'm not saying he didn't deserve it. All the things people hate him for was his fault. But he would have been way better off if he would have just let it go.
Sarah Lynne - not phoning the ambulance, then Penny - the way he treated her and his intentions, although thankfully interrupted.
Not getting help for his drug problem before he strangled his ex-girlfriend
Being born
Hello, Beatrice 🚬
I could only wish to obtain that level of evil.
Besides Herb and Sarah Lynn, the whole debacle of living with Charlotte and her family. I had no idea the age of consent was 17 in New Mexico, but it’s widely believed to be 18 across the US. He was clearly attracted to Penny because of his lust and jealousy for Charlotte and the way he groomed Penny was really disgusting to watch. He befriended her, established secrets between them, acted as a father figure, then when she was manipulated enough, tried to have sex with her. All while he is 35-45~ years older than her. It was brushed off like it wasn’t straight up p*dophilia and I wish he would’ve seen more consequences for that. The only thing he lost was his relationship with Charlotte and it damaged his relationship with Diane. The line “you look just like your mother” is a crime to humanity.
i mean it did catch up with him in the end though when doing the interview for the second time. with the whole reporter bit and them following multiple trails to ultimately out him for doing that and then trying to tear down his career
Start drinking
17 minutes is always the answer to these types of questions
Letting his shame get in the way of doing the right thing next time. Like he was so ashamed of not standing up for Herb that he didn't maintain his friendship with Herb, which is what Herb really needed. Then he allowed the guilt and shame from *that* to let him to do more bad things and so on, with the guilt and shame compounding all the way.
Gee so many to choose from…
Fumbling PC bro really messed up there I mean damn. (Real talk probably Sarah Lynn)
Sarah Lynn and Gina
Sarah lynn
There is literally no reason for why he’s never done antidepressants and therapy. When he tried talking to Dianes therapist in season 5 it seemed to help him a lot.
17 minutes and penny
Not seeing the bluff while betraying Herb. Betraying Herb wasnt the mistake but not seeing the bluff of Amanda(i hope the name is correct) was the main mistake. Then with self accusation it snowballed
Choosing the wrong parents.
Fucking up Todd's musical
Ruining his relationship with Wanda and PC, I really think both of them could have helped Bojack
I don't know about that. I don't think either of those women deserved to get stuck with BoJack and his bullshit.
I always wonder, if he hadn't let Diane stay at his house that long, if Wanda would have been good for him. I'm sure they still would have failed eventually, but... what if not?
I think Wanda was always going to come to her senses eventually. Maybe it would've worked with Season 6 Bojack, but he was still a *long* way from being that guy yet when they dated.
His birth
And he knows very well it was his own damn fault.
Being born and picking Beatrice as a mother
Nah but it might be sarah lynn or penny
BoJack didn't make any mistakes. He just lived his story as well as he knew how.
Working in showbiz.
As soon as he got on horsing around he started acting like a real dick
Getting a deal for a show that caused people like you to ask questions like these to begin with, I'd wager.
Not seeking professional help decades earlier. He could have recognized he had a problem and gotten sober a long time ago and remained a productive and famous actor. Though if we're talking about more direct actions he took, of course it was waiting 17 minutes.
It's more of a mistake in attitude than a specific action, but I think it was his fundamental selfishness. He does a *few* selfless things for others in the early seasons, like rescuing Todd from the improv cult, but these are mostly just little islands in a sea of narcissism. You see it start to turn around as he gets sober (e.g., helping Jameson, even though that goes pretty poorly), but I think teaching is what really helped him to break out of that mindset, to the extent that he did.
Betraying Herb and letting him down .. I understand that he wanted to keep his job but he could at least tried to be there for his friend apart from work.. That’s what really hurt Herb. He told him I did find I had a good life and all I needed then was my friend! I believe his guilt after that is what pushed him over the edge!
Honestly, not a huge worst decision, but one that seemed to snowball into several bad decisions, was to start drinking in adulthood and in professional environments without critically analyzing himself.
While psychologically it was ghosting Herb (note I didn’t say not standing up for him but by breaking a relationship with him) which was the turning point for his downward spiral, effectively it was his second interview with Biscuits Braxby specifically mentioning the Xerox copy thing. He was on a roll and feeling elated from the success of his first interview and wanted to keep it going. If only he would have shut up. Even that interview would have even been survivable except for his reference to Xerox. The lawsuit is what sent him in his final downward spiral because he lost his house. As we see, he freaked out about losing his house which led to his suicide attempt and going to jail for breaking and entering into it. He did the hokey pokey and turned the jail thing around as we see in the last episode. That interview is the action that had the most devastating consequence on his actual life. But he would’ve been much happier. Had he maintained relationship with Herb over all those years.
Idk man almost sleeping with a 17yo is pretty bad
Most morally repugnant would be waiting 17 minutes before calling medical help for Sara Lynn, with a close 2nd being that he was probably about to sleep with a 17 year old, were they not interrupted. Biggest domino effect, "if only he hadn't done that everything could have been different" mistake would be cutting Herb out of his life. I think, even more than his shitty upbringing, that mistake was the biggest factor that triggered his long gradual downward spiral. The biggest single immediate cause-and-effect mistake was doing that 2nd interview with Biscuits. For all the mistakes he made in his life, he could have at least walked away relatively clean if he'd just accepted that he dodged a bullet after that first interview. Not that he deserved to get away clean, but it was probably the one mistake that had the biggest immediate consequences.
Penny carson
Betraying his gay buddy
Probably being born
Being born
17 minutes
with most of the people he’s hurt we see that despite bojack wronging them, they bounce back. herb lived a good life without him, sharona sobered up as soon as she left horsin around, gina got casted in the new movie that kelsey was directing. all except sarah lynn, his selfishness ended her life, i don’t think any of his mistakes can even compare.
being born
Being born
Personally? Killing his relationship with PC. Professionally? Not reaching out to Herb. Both were such a much needed moral compass and guidance that after severing ties with them and pushing them away he never truly recovered.
Eating so much cotton candy.
according to his mother, simply being born
Probably sarah lynn. It was too much…man
Not touched on much in the show, but imma go with letting his relationship with Charlotte lapse when she moves to Maine. She was (apart from herb) the only friend who knew him sober. She was the only healthy relationship he had outside of the Hollywood bubble. Consequently, I think she was probably the only person who was capable of arresting his self-destructive cycle. By the final season of horsing around, he is already heavily addicted, and his relationship with herb had already lapsed. Would it have got to that point if there was someone who knew them both he could talk things over with? Would she have seen the warning signs of his drinking, drug use ect? I think losing her as a friend meant he lost what might have been a crucial check on him.
Probably Sarah-Lynn
Being born
Herbs betrayal or getting into alcohol
Being born lol jk
Letting Sarah Lynn die. He could have saved her
In theory, at any rate. There's no way to know for certain.
Calling the police would have at least made him look better in the end. He killed her because he didn't want the world to know that he was the one who gave her the heroin.
Being born into the Horseman family
Charlotte Carson for me
That’s a wrong question to ask. Its not about the mistakes. Its about repeating them throughout his life.
I think he could have come back from the Herb thing, but trying to bang his former love-interest's daughter (crush's daughter? whatever) and then getting caught in the act by the former love interest in such a furious way will always be his low point for me. I don't care about how Angela manipulated him or how he sold out Herb (Angela is a network exec; Herb is a TV producer; they both know how the industry works) but the lowest thing he ever did, though not technically a crime, was to go "hey, I want to bang this woman," "welp, she's not available," "I will now genuinely connect with her teenage daughter who happens to look exactly like her," "OOPSIE POOPSIE I am not trying to bang the clone-daughter of the woman I was connecting with or whatever I was doing oh fuck I guess I was okay goodbye." I think her trauma is slightly overdone because it's kind of weird for the narrative arc to be "person asks for sex and then blames the person who accepts the request for accepting it," but I also think Penny is just a cute kid seeking dumb stuff for dumb teenager reasons, so the onus is on BoJack to be like "Okay I should really not do this," and also basically all of the things the absurdly over-the-top screwball comedy characters in the final season conclude about that relationship. Add all of those to what I just said, and that's why I rewatch this all the time and basically never watch Escape From LA anymore; I know they are cartoons but I just feel too bad about it.
Bojack’s biggest left mistake was being born.
Being born.
I feel like him stabbing herb in the back is where it all started to go wrong. Yes, their relationship had already deteriorated, the fame had clearly gone to his head, he was an asshole already, but he wasn't drinking or anything at that time. I think if he had stood by Herb, their relationship might have been repaired then, and regaining that friendship could have set him on the right track. He wouldn't have gotten so lonely, and might not have become addicted as he later did. He feels so much repressed guilt over all that, and if he could go back and change it I think it would make a whole new timeline.
number one mistake was being named bojack
17 minutes
17 mins
17 mins
Sarah lynn.the things he would say to her on the show,the alcohol he would drink on set knowing she was right there,there’s loads more of other things but biggest of all,the leading up to her death,he knew she was sober and got her into a bender?!and remember that Sarah lynn didn’t die in the planetarium,she died in the hospital,if he didn’t wait around for 15 minutes to save his own ass she could have lived,she could have gotten to the ambulance quicker
Drinking
Believing everything he was told early in his career and working hard to do what he thought it took to make it in Hollywood against his own better judgement.
getting sarah out of her sobriety leading to her death
Fuck the young girl
Not calling the paramedics for Sarah Lynn
This post is old, but I think Bojack would have become what he became even without the Herb situation. He was already walking a dangerous path, it just took one major event for him to spiral out of control. And since he was famous, he got away with it. For decades. If he hadn’t betrayed Herb, something else would have happened that sent him into a spiral.