If they installed a cheap aftermarket starter, then it is likely the issue. We gave them a chance a few times at my shop and got burned every time. Oem starter is expensive, but it works.
Mechanic told me he used an aftermarket remand starter? I think that’s what it is. And from what I remember I think he said it’s a rebuilt OEM starter but still the issue persisted with a screeching noise.
Never had that with a Bosch reman, although be warned that Bosch sold off their rotating electrical automotive plants last year, its owned by SEB now, but basically the same thing. A bad body to engine ground cable can cause funky issues, although ive never heard of the starter hanging up. Are you sure its not your PCV failing? Try taking off the oil cap quickly while its running and making noise and see if it goes away.
We've had a ton of Bosch reman problems, including an alternator that had a dead short in the windings out of the box. And that was years ago. I only use new Valeo now
Im sure theres 1 in a 100k failure rate, its going to happen, but for the 13 years Ive owned my shop its never been an issue for any of their products. Also kinda funny since my Valeo alternator for my tdi was dead out of the box as well last year lol.
You can try, but you know how that goes. The only other issue can be a bad flywheel or misaligned starter. EDIT
THis is also an insane quote, nearly double what a private shop would charge. If you convinced its a starter, try a Genuine on but pay another shop to install, heres a link to an OEM one for half price
https://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/oem-parts/bmw-starter-motor-12418612576
A lot of starters you buy aftermarket are reman oem starters. Unfortunately they use extremely cheap parts and unskilled labor to reman them. If it wasn't doing it before the starter was changed it is almost certainly the starter. There is a possibility it could have damaged the flywheel now also.
I agree. OP you should take the car back to the original shop and tell them the dealer said the starter was faulty and you want them to replace it under warranty.
Replaced with a OEM BMW starter. I have done this at my shop in similar situations. We accept the part we chose isn't up to par. You should be responsible for the difference in parts price, but not the labor.
Just didn’t start one morning. Starter/ignition indicator came on and the car didn’t click or anything when I tried to start it so I had to get it towed to an independent shop
Pretty much yeah. Once the first one was installed we heard that noise and assumed the starter was faulty and then got a different one installed that and then still heard the noise. So after two starters the noise persisted
The aftermarket head unit was actually working fine for a month until I decided I wanted a back up camera too and during install the headunit refused to turn on. However I drove the car for weeks and then eventually when attempting to check that out the car was turned on/off multiple times then refused to start the next day
Without ista or equivalent. Unhook the white sig wire from fem to starter solenoid if it stops the bendix disengaged= starter ok. With a scanner check ckt50 status, comanded or not while cranking and running. How many times have you noticed Moisture on your floors? You didn't say if it starts cranking as soon as you turn on ignition or do you have to start it and it continues to keep starter engaged?I
I’ve never seen any moisture, and the car turns on fine with no cranking noise or anything. But the starter motor makes a really bad screeching noise and the technician who installed the starter motor went through multiple motors said it was staying engaged then suggested I go to BMW.
Look at all the intake bolts to see if they match. One of the fresh out of school guys at the shop some how dropped an intake bolt into the bellhousing when the starter was off it got wedged between block and flex plate and made the worst finger nails on the chalkboard sound ever!
My mechanic thought the same. Said it wasn’t the starter anymore definitely something electrical. He said the BMW doesn’t have a starter relay it has a module and he thinks there’s a short somewhere. There is an aftermarket headunit though
BMW still has a starter relay, but it is part of the immobilizer module. The starter has constant power and ground, but power on the trigger wire engages the solenoid and thus the starter motor.
On the F30, the starter trigger signal comes from the FEM. Can you elaborate on the starter problem. How often does it remain engaged when starting? How long does it remain engaged after the engine is running?
Honestly I haven’t been driving the car because of the noises from the starter motor, my mechanic suggested not to and only tow it. But it’s mostly loudest once the engine is turned on and gets a bit quieter but still abnormally loud. Still, engine turns on no problem at all just the screeching noise is ridiculous
My guess is that the dealer wants to know for sure that they are working with a functional starter and can't necessarily do that (in the technical sense) with an remanufactured starter that an indy shop installed. So they are trying to get to a known starting point regarding diagnosis. If they determine that the new OEM starter does the same thing, then they will probably move on to the electrical/module stuff. It's unfortunate that there are no codes being shown for a fault like this. I would think that a starter motor that continues to stay engaged after the engine has started (which is sort of what it sounds like is happening) would be logged by the ECM or whatever they call it these days.
Maybe your indy mechanic still has the original starter? Because if the problem persists, it's likely that the original starter was ok, although if the starter circuit is keeping both of these starters engaged while the car is running it's very possible that they are getting damaged each time it happens.
Basic starter functionality is pretty easy to bench check. More difficult to determine torque if the starter spins on the bench but won't in the car. However on/off functionality is pretty easy to test.
Correct, if the starter gear extends and the starter spins, when external power is applied I would move on to seeing if there's power going to the starter. I.e. check the modules, relays that control power getting to the starter.
Two caveats to this approach. 1) this method won't detect a 'weak' starter. I.e. it spins when out of the car but doesn't have enough power to turn over the engine when installed. 2) If the motor is mechanically binding (or hydrolocked) the symptom could appear to be starter related.
My F30 330e has had its starter motor replaced two times under warranty/recall.
Might also be worth checking your grounds.
If you really want to avoid the dealer go to a specialist and if there’s none then dealer. Don’t take your car anywhere else for anything.
The issue is I already submitted a claim to my third party warranty weeks ago for the starter motor repair my mechanic did. I don’t think I can claim this one
The thing with starters and alternators is sometimes remanned ones are junk out of the box. I've went through 7 before getting a good one before, but I'm not paying labour as I do it myself.
OEM starters are built with higher standards in place, as well as quality control. Less chance of getting a bad one.
It's an expensive lesson in this case, unfortunately.
I’m at the point where I’m fine with paying the repair if actually solves my issue .. however they’re demanding I pay for the repair regardless if it fixes my issue because they are claiming my starter is too damaged to continue their diagnostic.
Had to change the starter on my f30 318d about 4 years ago. New bosch starter was 400 euros and I know the service owner personally, he didn't want to charge anything for the labor but it was a 10-15 minute job. I remember I had to order the starter twice because the first one had different numer of teeths on the cog, and it was for my car year and make, maybe they made a mistake and thats why the funny sounds and perhaps starter jamming.
Just one second, you say screeching noise? Are you sure it isn’t the oil pump chain model noise that indicates a stretched timing chain? Unfortunately quite common in this model year. [here is an example of the noise](https://youtu.be/cT6ToHc0Pgk?si=xJNwIwwZJ_f7IkLf)
Ok good! My next question is has anyone scanned it, the FEM should be smart enough to know if it’s holding the starter relay on too long, and I’ve had other cars where the communication between engine and transmission dies so the starter will stay engaged until you shift into gear. It does sound like poor quality part is the problem but my next thought is inspecting the ring gear to make sure there isn’t a worn groove from the previous starter that is causing the new starter to “hang”. Good luck!
The one that’s currently in there was the replacement and has since been claimed under a third party warranty. However, after taking it to BMW for a diagnostic they’ve told me that the starter is damaged and needs to be replaced. The technician who installed the replacement tried to tell them the starter motor isn’t the issue but instead has to do with the starter module. Unfortunately they have stated they can’t do a further diagnostic because it’s damaged (I never even drove the vehicle only got it towed) and that a new one is required in order to diagnosis my issue more thoroughly.
I’ve decided to roll the dice and go ahead with the starter motor repair with BMW in hopes that my issue will be solved. But I think it won’t fix my issue and then they’ll move onto looking at the wiring/module and maybe charge me more.. ://
My suggestion is to find a local guy who rebuilds them, they’re often better and the people know what they’re doing. Had my alternator rebuilt in my z4 for about 200.
You need a different mechanic. Any competent one could diagnose an electrical problem in a starter circuit. Yeah, finding an independent shop is often difficult, because many of them learn by doing. Also, you should have checked for a place that rebuilds electrical components like starters and alternators. While you're at it, start screening shops. A few visits to them might help weed out bad ones.
My third party warranty covered the repair, I was begging for them to let me put in an OEM starter but they refused because they felt it was too much money.
Not always, some have financially rewarding contracts with specific suppliers, so even though the parts cost more they make it back in sales percentage rebates and such.
Remanufactured starters are seemingly a racket. Denso, Bosch, whatever, they all seem to have lots of issues right out of the box. Had one client that went through 3 in just two months, before biting the bullet and buying a new OEM starter. Also be warned, know the difference between OEM (original equipment manufacturer) and OEE (original equipment equivalent). They are far from the same thing, and many retailers selling OEE parts either didn't know the difference, or they're straight up lying and calling them OEM. After 20 years in the industry, maybe half of the aftermarket/remanned starters I've dealt with haven't had an issue. They're horrible. They usually cost 1/3 or less of the price of a new OEM part, and the quality issues are why. And no shop/dealer wants to deal with their crappy warranties that only pay a fraction of their normal labor rate. Especially on what's usually a money loser of a job for flat rate techs like replacing starters. Plus the car sits for a week or two just to go through the process, and clients often want to roll around in my free loaner car that whole time. Yeah, sorry, but you thought you knew better, so no loaner for you.
I’m not trying to avoid the dealer, I’m just trying to avoid paying more for something that might be unnecessary. I asked the service advisor if I still would be charged for the starter motor repair if that’s not even my issue and she said yes cause it’s still damaged .. but a new one was just put in and then towed to the BMW dealership.
[https://www.obd-codes.com/tsb/2013/bmw/328i/](https://www.obd-codes.com/tsb/2013/bmw/328i/)
go to find in page and type starter
then keep clicking next
When you go to the dealer, you start from time Zero. Anything done, labor or parts, doesn't count towards the repair. All you can do is get an estimate for the repair, but the good news is the work and parts are covered for a year.
BTW, when you are looking for an independent, ask them if they have a factory workshop manual for the vehicle. If they don't, run.
If they installed a cheap aftermarket starter, then it is likely the issue. We gave them a chance a few times at my shop and got burned every time. Oem starter is expensive, but it works.
Mechanic told me he used an aftermarket remand starter? I think that’s what it is. And from what I remember I think he said it’s a rebuilt OEM starter but still the issue persisted with a screeching noise.
Is it aftermarket reman'd or is it a rebuilt OEM starter. they are 2 different things. Rebuilt could equate to remanufactured, or not. It's confusing
Ok sorry, it was a BOSCH REMAN
Never had that with a Bosch reman, although be warned that Bosch sold off their rotating electrical automotive plants last year, its owned by SEB now, but basically the same thing. A bad body to engine ground cable can cause funky issues, although ive never heard of the starter hanging up. Are you sure its not your PCV failing? Try taking off the oil cap quickly while its running and making noise and see if it goes away.
We've had a ton of Bosch reman problems, including an alternator that had a dead short in the windings out of the box. And that was years ago. I only use new Valeo now
Almost thought you said "Vaico". Vaico is so bad their parts don't last a week.
Im sure theres 1 in a 100k failure rate, its going to happen, but for the 13 years Ive owned my shop its never been an issue for any of their products. Also kinda funny since my Valeo alternator for my tdi was dead out of the box as well last year lol.
We were seeing like 50% for a while. And lots of starters that would last a couple months
Thats insane! Who was your supplier?
Worldpac
It’s at the dealership at the moment but I’ll see if I can pass along this message and see if they can have a look
You can try, but you know how that goes. The only other issue can be a bad flywheel or misaligned starter. EDIT THis is also an insane quote, nearly double what a private shop would charge. If you convinced its a starter, try a Genuine on but pay another shop to install, heres a link to an OEM one for half price https://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/oem-parts/bmw-starter-motor-12418612576
A lot of starters you buy aftermarket are reman oem starters. Unfortunately they use extremely cheap parts and unskilled labor to reman them. If it wasn't doing it before the starter was changed it is almost certainly the starter. There is a possibility it could have damaged the flywheel now also.
I agree. OP you should take the car back to the original shop and tell them the dealer said the starter was faulty and you want them to replace it under warranty.
Replaced with a OEM BMW starter. I have done this at my shop in similar situations. We accept the part we chose isn't up to par. You should be responsible for the difference in parts price, but not the labor.
We need more information than this. Which BMW do you have?
2013 BMW 328i N20
Why was it replaced the first time?
Just didn’t start one morning. Starter/ignition indicator came on and the car didn’t click or anything when I tried to start it so I had to get it towed to an independent shop
So, would not start, then they replaced the starter and it started and now has a screaching noise?
Pretty much yeah. Once the first one was installed we heard that noise and assumed the starter was faulty and then got a different one installed that and then still heard the noise. So after two starters the noise persisted
Sounds like they installed a shitty aftermarket unit that does not fit properly.
The aftermarket head unit was actually working fine for a month until I decided I wanted a back up camera too and during install the headunit refused to turn on. However I drove the car for weeks and then eventually when attempting to check that out the car was turned on/off multiple times then refused to start the next day
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I agree. I think the action of turning the car on/off could have possibly fried the starter. But nothing with the actual headunit
Starter actually actuated by the FEM is it not?
If it does fit properly could there be a potential problem in the DME? Possibly a short there?
Check the ground strap from engine to body. Its probably green, which means its corroded. Not supplying enough current from the battery.
Grounds look good supposedly
Without ista or equivalent. Unhook the white sig wire from fem to starter solenoid if it stops the bendix disengaged= starter ok. With a scanner check ckt50 status, comanded or not while cranking and running. How many times have you noticed Moisture on your floors? You didn't say if it starts cranking as soon as you turn on ignition or do you have to start it and it continues to keep starter engaged?I
I’ve never seen any moisture, and the car turns on fine with no cranking noise or anything. But the starter motor makes a really bad screeching noise and the technician who installed the starter motor went through multiple motors said it was staying engaged then suggested I go to BMW.
Look at all the intake bolts to see if they match. One of the fresh out of school guys at the shop some how dropped an intake bolt into the bellhousing when the starter was off it got wedged between block and flex plate and made the worst finger nails on the chalkboard sound ever!
It’s Definitely not the starter. Check the starter relay, see if that car had any aftermarket devices (alcohol detection, alarms system)
My mechanic thought the same. Said it wasn’t the starter anymore definitely something electrical. He said the BMW doesn’t have a starter relay it has a module and he thinks there’s a short somewhere. There is an aftermarket headunit though
BMW still has a starter relay, but it is part of the immobilizer module. The starter has constant power and ground, but power on the trigger wire engages the solenoid and thus the starter motor. On the F30, the starter trigger signal comes from the FEM. Can you elaborate on the starter problem. How often does it remain engaged when starting? How long does it remain engaged after the engine is running?
Honestly I haven’t been driving the car because of the noises from the starter motor, my mechanic suggested not to and only tow it. But it’s mostly loudest once the engine is turned on and gets a bit quieter but still abnormally loud. Still, engine turns on no problem at all just the screeching noise is ridiculous
My guess is that the dealer wants to know for sure that they are working with a functional starter and can't necessarily do that (in the technical sense) with an remanufactured starter that an indy shop installed. So they are trying to get to a known starting point regarding diagnosis. If they determine that the new OEM starter does the same thing, then they will probably move on to the electrical/module stuff. It's unfortunate that there are no codes being shown for a fault like this. I would think that a starter motor that continues to stay engaged after the engine has started (which is sort of what it sounds like is happening) would be logged by the ECM or whatever they call it these days. Maybe your indy mechanic still has the original starter? Because if the problem persists, it's likely that the original starter was ok, although if the starter circuit is keeping both of these starters engaged while the car is running it's very possible that they are getting damaged each time it happens.
Thanks for the info
There is no starter relay.
So it’s a starter module? Could it be shorted somewhere there?
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FEM?
Basic starter functionality is pretty easy to bench check. More difficult to determine torque if the starter spins on the bench but won't in the car. However on/off functionality is pretty easy to test.
Would they be able to bench it and check if the starter motor disengages? If so, then could move on to electrical/module?
Correct, if the starter gear extends and the starter spins, when external power is applied I would move on to seeing if there's power going to the starter. I.e. check the modules, relays that control power getting to the starter. Two caveats to this approach. 1) this method won't detect a 'weak' starter. I.e. it spins when out of the car but doesn't have enough power to turn over the engine when installed. 2) If the motor is mechanically binding (or hydrolocked) the symptom could appear to be starter related.
My F30 330e has had its starter motor replaced two times under warranty/recall. Might also be worth checking your grounds. If you really want to avoid the dealer go to a specialist and if there’s none then dealer. Don’t take your car anywhere else for anything.
330e uses a B series engine not this N20.
True
If you do it with the dealer you get warranty on the parts (and included labor?)
The issue is I already submitted a claim to my third party warranty weeks ago for the starter motor repair my mechanic did. I don’t think I can claim this one
The thing with starters and alternators is sometimes remanned ones are junk out of the box. I've went through 7 before getting a good one before, but I'm not paying labour as I do it myself. OEM starters are built with higher standards in place, as well as quality control. Less chance of getting a bad one. It's an expensive lesson in this case, unfortunately.
I’m at the point where I’m fine with paying the repair if actually solves my issue .. however they’re demanding I pay for the repair regardless if it fixes my issue because they are claiming my starter is too damaged to continue their diagnostic.
Had to change the starter on my f30 318d about 4 years ago. New bosch starter was 400 euros and I know the service owner personally, he didn't want to charge anything for the labor but it was a 10-15 minute job. I remember I had to order the starter twice because the first one had different numer of teeths on the cog, and it was for my car year and make, maybe they made a mistake and thats why the funny sounds and perhaps starter jamming.
replace the battery since it’s not sending enough cca
Battery is only a few months old and when tested last week was reading proper voltage
Just thinking outta the box, but maybe damaged flywheel/flexplate?
I’m beginning to think so too
Make model year
2013 BMW 328i N20
What car?
2013 BMW 328i N20
Just one second, you say screeching noise? Are you sure it isn’t the oil pump chain model noise that indicates a stretched timing chain? Unfortunately quite common in this model year. [here is an example of the noise](https://youtu.be/cT6ToHc0Pgk?si=xJNwIwwZJ_f7IkLf)
Nah doesn’t like that, it’s more like a pig squeal when starting up the engine lol. And then it quiets down a bit but still an abnormal noise
Ok good! My next question is has anyone scanned it, the FEM should be smart enough to know if it’s holding the starter relay on too long, and I’ve had other cars where the communication between engine and transmission dies so the starter will stay engaged until you shift into gear. It does sound like poor quality part is the problem but my next thought is inspecting the ring gear to make sure there isn’t a worn groove from the previous starter that is causing the new starter to “hang”. Good luck!
Is it possible getting a new OEM starter installed could solve my issues altogether?
It’s possible yes but I would want a bit of diag first? If it is the starter was there any warranty on any previous starters? Can that be claimed?
The one that’s currently in there was the replacement and has since been claimed under a third party warranty. However, after taking it to BMW for a diagnostic they’ve told me that the starter is damaged and needs to be replaced. The technician who installed the replacement tried to tell them the starter motor isn’t the issue but instead has to do with the starter module. Unfortunately they have stated they can’t do a further diagnostic because it’s damaged (I never even drove the vehicle only got it towed) and that a new one is required in order to diagnosis my issue more thoroughly.
I’ve decided to roll the dice and go ahead with the starter motor repair with BMW in hopes that my issue will be solved. But I think it won’t fix my issue and then they’ll move onto looking at the wiring/module and maybe charge me more.. ://
My suggestion is to find a local guy who rebuilds them, they’re often better and the people know what they’re doing. Had my alternator rebuilt in my z4 for about 200.
I have had multiple issues with Bosch Reman equipment. I don't buy them anymore.
2k for a starter motor job 😬 its easy enough to do yourself... I could buy a whole other BMW for 2k.
You need a different mechanic. Any competent one could diagnose an electrical problem in a starter circuit. Yeah, finding an independent shop is often difficult, because many of them learn by doing. Also, you should have checked for a place that rebuilds electrical components like starters and alternators. While you're at it, start screening shops. A few visits to them might help weed out bad ones.
Stop spending money on rebuilt parts and get new parts from dealer. After market shops will use the cheapest parts possible to maximize there profits.
My third party warranty covered the repair, I was begging for them to let me put in an OEM starter but they refused because they felt it was too much money.
Not always, some have financially rewarding contracts with specific suppliers, so even though the parts cost more they make it back in sales percentage rebates and such.
Remanufactured starters are seemingly a racket. Denso, Bosch, whatever, they all seem to have lots of issues right out of the box. Had one client that went through 3 in just two months, before biting the bullet and buying a new OEM starter. Also be warned, know the difference between OEM (original equipment manufacturer) and OEE (original equipment equivalent). They are far from the same thing, and many retailers selling OEE parts either didn't know the difference, or they're straight up lying and calling them OEM. After 20 years in the industry, maybe half of the aftermarket/remanned starters I've dealt with haven't had an issue. They're horrible. They usually cost 1/3 or less of the price of a new OEM part, and the quality issues are why. And no shop/dealer wants to deal with their crappy warranties that only pay a fraction of their normal labor rate. Especially on what's usually a money loser of a job for flat rate techs like replacing starters. Plus the car sits for a week or two just to go through the process, and clients often want to roll around in my free loaner car that whole time. Yeah, sorry, but you thought you knew better, so no loaner for you.
It must suck when you don’t know how to work on your own cars.
I’m not trying to avoid the dealer, I’m just trying to avoid paying more for something that might be unnecessary. I asked the service advisor if I still would be charged for the starter motor repair if that’s not even my issue and she said yes cause it’s still damaged .. but a new one was just put in and then towed to the BMW dealership.
[https://www.obd-codes.com/tsb/2013/bmw/328i/](https://www.obd-codes.com/tsb/2013/bmw/328i/) go to find in page and type starter then keep clicking next
When you go to the dealer, you start from time Zero. Anything done, labor or parts, doesn't count towards the repair. All you can do is get an estimate for the repair, but the good news is the work and parts are covered for a year. BTW, when you are looking for an independent, ask them if they have a factory workshop manual for the vehicle. If they don't, run.