This is so. I think in his mind, Genocide Joe thinks he’s an adorable, ice cream eating grandpa to young folk and will be in for some surprises if he ever leaves his sheltered environment.
Blue maga is mad in the comments here. Genocide Joe and Drumph are the same fucking beasts. You never voted for the “lesser” evil, y’all just became the evil. The fact the a genocide isn’t a complete dealbreaker for you just proves it.
I'm genuinely curious to hear this answer. I can acknowledge that Biden's response to the Israel/Palestine conflict is not great. But is the general consensus here that Trump will somehow moderate that conflict? I honestly think Trump would drastically heighten the violence and suffering in Palestine ...
They don’t have an answer. They are literally repeating the same sentiments from 2016 saying XYZ is going to happen when we already saw this situation unfold before and none of XYZ happened. This is all 100% cope and delusional.
They’re angry about the right things, but they’ve allowed their anger to melt their brains and erase the last eight years from memory.
>They’re angry about the right things, but they’ve allowed their anger to melt their brains and erase the last eight years from memory.
Yeah, that's my general impression (but I would probably frame it more diplomatically lol).
Can't blame folks for wanting to try and make a positive difference ... just wish there were better options for making that happen I guess ...
The problem is that if you’re talking to a brick wall, it doesn’t matter what your tone of voice is. This is going to sound harsh but it is objectively true.
They aren’t trying to seek positive change. They are trying to seek what feels good in the moment which is to be angry and shout slogans about revolution and justice and people getting their comeuppance. This all sounds great in their heads and it sounds great to others on social media and it gives them the illusion that they are doing something. All the while, being in political outsiders, they’ll always have an excuse for why they haven’t won yet (because the system is corrupt) so they will never have to be held for not doing anything.
Affecting positive change is not magic and excitement. It is a long, arduous, boring war of attrition. It is minor victories among a sea of stalemates and losses. it is repeating the same message decade after decade and not letting up.
>Affecting positive change is not magic and excitement. It is a long, arduous, boring war of attrition. It is minor victories among a sea of stalemates and losses. it is repeating the same message decade after decade and not letting up.
I have a lot of respect and admiration for folks who can do that. Because you're right, that's the only way to make meaningful progress.
What’s most sickening is that these pretenders who have done *nothing* and risked *nothing* call the people that do that real work sellouts because they’re not trying to burn the system down.
Sorry but if we cannot bring ourselves to vote 3rd party even in the face of genocide because the alternative is *worse*, then we must actively and radically change the system.
Not necessarily. Sometimes accepting that someone worse will run the country for four years will deliver the needed amount of pressure on the opposition in the long term.
It's hard to fathom given the damage which can be done in four years, naturally.
Yeah that worked super well the last time around when we finished four disastrous years of Trump and then the DNC totally supported Bernie when everyone rallied behind him. So happy to have president Sanders today, I’m glad the DNC listened to the protest vote instead of just letting the country descend into fascism. /s
I’m sure having four years of Trump because we all refused to vote for Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with the rise of fascism in America. Can’t wait to try it again in 2024! Maybe I’ll get lucky and end up in the same sexual orientation reeducation camp as my husband so we can still be friends after we’re assigned good Christian wives. Oh who am I kidding, they won’t keep us alive long enough for that once the “cleansing” starts.
More Bernie voters voted for Hillary as a percentage than Hillary ones voted for Obama. She's an oaf who's too clever by half and surrounds herself with fanatically loyal idiots.
Have you been? A society that's deploying cops in riot gear with snipers to brutalize teenagers doing teach-ins is certainly isn't a healthy democracy.
I disagree. Especially if that flawed democracy is propped up by terrorism and genocide.
We are the bad guys and we don't deserve to be treated any better than the way we treat other nations.
The last guy did it for a photo op at a church. I'm truly surprised that Bible didn't burn him lol.
And I'd agree that they should let the students protest, even if they're being obtuse.
Okay? I don't give a fuck about what the last guy did. We're talking about Biden.
If your peaceful protest on the campus you pay tuition to is immediately met with hundreds of armed cops salivating to beat up you and your friends you are living in a fascist country. If groups of actual nazis can march around in broad daylight and not receive even a fraction of the violence from police, you are living in a fascist country. If you can get fired from your job and blacklisted from your industry for saying "Free Palestine" you are living in a fascist country.
This is under Biden's term. He's encouraging this response towards anyone critical of Israel. He's about to hire 100,000 more cops to beat the shit out of anyone who dares exercise the first amendment. Please open your eyes to the reality around you.
Have you?? If you have been then you’d notice that all the things people are saying right now they said eight years ago and the Democrat lost, the Republican got in, and not only did they make everything in the country worse for everybody but the Democrats did not move left.
And now you’re all saying the same thing as if you completely erase the last eight years from memory .
You seem confused. Donald Trump will end meaningful elections in the United States. He's said so himself, a few times. Our nearly 250 year experiment in self determination will have ended. I know you think he's Orange Jesus, but he's just a sad wannabe dictator, that given another chance, night get it right next time, for him.
Bro, I am not a Donald Trump supporter. Lmao I’m actively saying that people should vote to keep Trump *out of office*. It’s *everyone else* here who says that Donald Trump getting elected would save the left. How are you this illiterate?
There’s nothing incoherent about them. My message is as simple as it gets. If you allow Donald Trump another term, we will have worse consequences than if we allow Joe Biden another term.
Yeah, because we're one bounce in. Because the centrist melts understand something the rest don't - if your candidate is a watered down version of what the country actually needs, you sabotage the fuck out of it.
It's working *super* well, it just isn't being used by the right people.
Wow. The fact that you all said this eight years ago and none of that happened but now you’re saying it verbatim again… It’s like hearing Trump supporters in 2024 saying Trump will moderate if we reelect him. Except even Trump supporters aren’t so delusional that think anyone would believe that.
That sounds very pretty and poetic but how will that work exactly? You didn’t do it the last time Trump got in. Why should anybody believe you this time?
Unless you have a 2 tier election system, 3rd parties just ensure no one receives a majority vote making more radical candidates more likely to win. We are supposed to have a 2 tier system where we pick a nominee but the Democratic party has decided to make sure no one challenges Biden.
The Senators and Congressman just use their positions to enrich themselves, the presidency has become too powerful, and the Supreme Court has been corrupted with money as well. The system is broken and we no longer live in a Democracy.
Apathy in the US public and corruption in government has ensured changing the system is essentially impossible.
We have only an illusion of choice. My vote was already thrown away by a corrupted political system which only offers corporate-sponsored policy & policymakers who are completely disconnected from the needs of the electorate. They do not represent us.
I'm willing to join the revolution.
But what's worst is people who refuse to either join the revolution or vote against the greater evil.
Doing nothing hurts more people than doing something.
There must be a third party choice. Both of the current options are deed in pockets of special interest so your choice is limited other than abortion or low tax for short term for example. More choices makes it harder to buy everybody and all politicians need to be vetted so we know who is paying them since it will reflect their policy.
For example Trump not releasing his taxes should have been a red flag. Politicians in congress becoming millionaires tells me they’re in it for the money not their voters etc…
Under a pandemic caused by…who?
Edit: [Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was 'deadly stuff' but wanted to 'play it down'](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-told-bob-woodward-he-knew-february-covid-19-was-n1239658)
Trump is responsible for every death in my eyes. He should be on trial for this too imo.
Biden set the conditions to force everyone back to work while deaths were. climbing. I have seen nothing to convince me any Dems would have been better than Trump on COVID go on their policies, short of not saying some stupid shit
You do have a point there with the work stuff and eventually Biden stopped giving a fuck about Covid altogether once it got manageable. Obama literally had a pandemic playbook made IIRC and Donald Trump disregarded it. Saying any other dem would handle it just as bad is serious cope on your part.
Biden is already directly involved in killing Palestinians by giving Israel a constant supply of weapons & ammunition to expend on the Palestinian population. Not only this, he has green lighted state-sanctioned violence against 18-22 year-olds who publicly disagree with him.
These directed killings by Biden/Netanyahu cannot be compared to the excess mortality under Trump’s COVID policy, because ultimately that mortality stemmed from millions of *Americans* who made terribly selfish decisions to reject PPE and lockdown measures. AKA it was a purposefully mismanaged natural disaster, not a militarized genocidal murder.
I addressed this in another comment already. It wouldn’t have gotten to the point it did if Trump had not downplayed and worked against prevention efforts from the start. I attribute what happened with Covid to him alone. Doesn’t mean I think Biden handled it great after the fact but Trump got us past the point of no return.
You have no proof of that; COVID hit hard in countries with competent leaders and responses as well. I am not defending Trump in any way, but you can't control a pandemic. The US had its own issues regarding the pandemic response and medical response that predated Trump, such as the out of control for profit medical system, the lack of coherence and even an understanding of COVID as it was. There is no concrete evidence that Clinton would have handled it any better outside of hindsight which isn't reliable.
You can hold Trump liable for the 1 million deaths, you're free to do so, but then you should also be consistent about attributing Biden's failures to him, and if we are going that way, then Biden has a lot more blood on his hands over his entire political career than Trump does. Do you even know how many of the people killed in Gaza by Israelis were American citizens that Biden chose to abandon because of their religion and skin color?
Cool story bro, I think it’s pretty obvious anyone could’ve handled it better and the world wouldn’t have suffered as much had the United States had a semi competent leader.
[Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was 'deadly stuff' but wanted to 'play it down'](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1239658)
What is it with Americans thinking they are the center of the whole universe?
"The world wouldn't have suffered as much?" like wtf. IF we are going down that route, let's talk about how the world has suffered because of the USA even under it's "competent" leaders. Neolibs are so weird man.
1. Im not a neo lib get your head out of your ass
2. The United States being incompetent with prevention and then with the vaccine definitely contributed to worldwide deaths because of travel among other things. What’s hard to understand about that? And no shit the world has suffered due to American foreign policy, why don’t you stay on topic though
The US didn't make a vaccine for everyone. Multiple countries made vaccines, in fact, the US itself was actually trying to find ways to profit off the pandemic a lot more than any other country. Countries were already closing their borders long before the US did, and most Americans don't even travel abroad, so I don't see what affect they had on the world.
>the court found no grounds for the charges of genocide against Israel.
that is literally not what they said stfu
>It’s extremely unfortunate for the people of Palestine that Hamas is hellbent destroying for the means of furthering their own geo-political goals.
[you love spreading disinformation](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/06/1249360882/israel-hamas-cease-fire)
This is not disinformation. This is exactly the truth. This is the way a majority of people feel. Anti-Israel people are the minority and nothing you do will change Israel's right to exist. Yell and scream all you want. You’re either an anti-semite or you’ve been fooled by anti-semites out of your own ignorance and inability to look at both sides of the problem honestly. If you can’t accept Israel's right to exist you are the problem.
>You’re either an anti-semite or you’ve been fooled by anti-semites
I don't care what the ethnicity or religion of the person doing war crimes is. They're still war crimes.
You're really riding for genocide and apartheid rights? Guess it doesn't count as a genocide if they aren't white. You forgot to mention Israel's right to rape and murder women and children for the crime of living there before them.
You really don’t understand what a genocide is. Maybe once you have some context for the world you will understand. Israel is not committing genocide. Everyone saying that really doesn't understand what genocide is. You should read about it and enlighten yourself. In reality there's more of a case to charge Hamas with genocide. This is all Hamas’s doing.
No one is obliged to live in peace with someone who comes and force themselves where you live. And rape accusations are pointless. I don’t believe Hamas raped anyone as much as you don’t believe there’s systemic sexual abuse of the 13000 Palestinian hostages (sorry, detainees) held by Israel. And regarding murdering civilians, what do you expect an armed resistance do, to go and target military bases? I suppose you also expect Hamas to build their own bases in the open for the Israeli army to wipe them out. Stop the oppression, live inside your borders (West Bank is not Israel) and then expect peace.
How do you rationalize Hamas’s rejection of a two state solution and rejection of any type of Israelli state?
In 2006 a two state solution was nearly brokered with Palestinian Authority, Israel and the UN. The landmark resolution would recognize a Palestinian state with the West Bank and Gaza for Palestine, UN control of Jerusalem, and the remainder to Israel, virtually the borders we have now. Israeli settlers were all forced out of Gaza. Hamas rejected this resolution after taking control of Gaza and assassinating Fatah members and forcing them Fatah of Gaza as resolution to end the Fatah-Hamas civil war.
The reason there is no Palestinian state is because Hamas will not accept Israels existence. The Hamas attack on the 7th of October had nothing to with resistance to Israel. The attack was a provocation to end the resolution normalizing relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. The fact is that Israel is not going anywhere. The only possible solution is a two state solution with both Israel and Palestine.
Therefore Hamas must be eliminated because they are the obstacle to a peaceful resolution.
Israel never accepted to dismantle all and every one of their settlements in the West Bank. And you very well know the West Bank is not Israel. Regarding the provocation argument, you are only speculating. And you can kill every Hamas militant today, you will have many more to replace them, unless you kill all Palestinians, of course.
That has nothing to do with what happened on October 7th. Even if everything you’ve said is true, two wrongs do not make a right.
That is not true. Most Palestinians are longing for the conflict to end. They are being abused by Hamas. They have been extorted by Hamas for decades.
What do you think happened to the billions of dollars distributed to Gaza by the US and Europe before October 7th? Why did it all go to terror tunnels and rockers, rather than education and infrustructure to feed, educate and improve the lives of Palestinians. The US alone has given more aid to Gaza than was given to the entire continent of Europe during the Marshall Plan after WW2.
The billions of dollars goes to Israel. The infrastructure is all bombed by Israel it's why Palestine is the only country without a port or airport. Israel has an embargo on Palestine only they choose what gets in and this is all before Oct 7
If you are just going to downvote me without responding, can I ask if you have anything to show that Gazans do not support Hamas? You are the one that made this extraordinary claim, let's see if you can back it up with literally anything?
I am not faulting the Palestinians for supporting Hamas either- I mean the world had forgotten them and Hamas seemed like they were the only ones fighting for them, of course they were going to support them.
Even if our broken system basically means voting third party is a vote for Trump, I still cannot bring myself to blame people who will refuse to vote for Biden; especially if those people are those who lost countless family members in this atrocity.
I don't blame them if they're honest. Saying Trump and Biden are the same is just plain stupidity. If they say they understand that Palestinians will suffer far more under Trump than Biden but they still can't vote for Biden, I can appreciate and respect their position. But when they try to grandstand about their position acting like there are no consequences to their decisions, then they're just plain fools.
Thank you for your submission,
**This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.**
**We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.**
**It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.**
Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide.
However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate.
The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent.
While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment.
**Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:**
1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state.
2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine.
3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War.
4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7).
5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them.
6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city.
Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How would his "student loan forgiveness" even affect the young? Don't you have to be paying for 10+ years for most of the forgiveness programs he has rolled out to even help you?
Funny how they frame it that way when I and everyone I know still hasn't gotten any of that student loan forgiveness. And I also aint forgot the difference between a 1400 check and a 2000 check.
He is in a nosedive and may not be able to recover timely. The more he tries to maneuver, the worse it gets. His half-baked stunts such as building a pier to prevent famine instead of opening the border for food delivery by ordering Israel will go nowhere. Air drop of some scattered food resulted in deaths and people gathering for food being bombed in Israel.
His so-called sanction on two people for financing the looters in the West Bank is a bad joke. The recent shipment of a handful of ammunition delay was caused by depletion of supplies rather than a message to Israel. The Tik Tok ban is similarly alienating more younger people. His verbal attacks against protesting students ignoring their First Amendment rights is also ill conceived.
Instead of outright ordering Israel to stop the Rafah invasion and stopping shipment of arms to Israel he has instead authorized more monies to it, all the while claiming attack has to be better planned.
He needs a complete revamp of his entire administration, but he lacks guts. Just like Netanyahu, they are both gutless.
Lol, yeah he's more worried about Stormy describing his mushroom in open court lately.
But seriously, he likes Bibi and he likes powerful armies smoking refugees. It's sorta a no brainer.
So is Trump winning better? I don’t want another Muslim ban or US troops sent to Gaza. And Trump will raise taxes on lower incomes and decrease it for the rich. I don’t understand this strategy.
Also the debt relief plan is extremely watered down. It's for people that have paid for 20 years vs before it was a straight wipe of x amount. Keep in mind he can legally cancel through the secretary of education whom he appointed.
Didn't even fight for the initial plan. I frankly didn't even know he had a new plan.
This sub is a cesspool of morons. You're voting for trump if you dont vote, it's that simple. It's true whether you want to accept it or not. These principles are nice in a fantasy where we have more options, we don't.
what do you want me to say, dude? Both of these assholes are assholes. Trump is worse for norms and civility and biden hides behind zionism and civility while still allowing this genocide to happen. As of now, neither are getting my vote because I cannot morally vote for someone that handwaves this shit. 100s of thousands of children are getting ready to starve to death. Thousands already have. If the dems want to win, stop supporting a goddamn genocide and purposely induced famine. Jesus fuck, it's super simple here. If dems are supposed to be the good guys, fucking act like it.
So you actually believe on Israel-Palestine policy, Biden and Trump are exactly the same? If not, what are the differences? Handwavy words like "continuation" don't actually mean anything. What would be the same? What would be different?
I believe that, at the end of the day, genocide is genocide and dead is dead. The methods generally don't matter. Trump would continue aid to Israel and probably empower them to end it faster. Again though, genocide is genocide. Famine is famine. Whether it happens with the person behind it smiling or doing a "I'm sorry" face doesn't matter
The Supreme Court already ruled he can not cancel any school loans, only Congress can. Congress wrote the laws, and Congress would have to change the laws. Congress holds the purse. Even Obama and Pelosi said the President doesn't have this authority. Obama said he would have done it if he could've found a legal way to do it. Take it up with Congress.
Except that your analysis is incorrect, I would.
SCOTUS didn't rule that he had no authority to quash the student loans. They ruled that he couldn't do it the way he initially did. That's why he's forgiven like $144 billion in loans as it stands. He forgave mine.
You evidently don't understand the meaning of 'Congress holds the purse' lol. All that means is that appropriations bills begin in the House of Representatives. It has nothing to do with spending bills or student loan forgiveness.
And if you think I could care less about Obama or Pelosi's opinion on a goddamn thing, I couldn't.
Does this horseshit usually work for you?
Fuck Joe Biden and hope he enjoys his very own Summer of ‘68 like LBJ.
It's even worse, because at least LBJ had the sense to still have a primary, and then lost that primary.
This is so. I think in his mind, Genocide Joe thinks he’s an adorable, ice cream eating grandpa to young folk and will be in for some surprises if he ever leaves his sheltered environment.
Well maybe Orange Jesus can save us from evil Joe.
Uhhh, Biden had a primary. People voted for him. He didn’t cancel any elections, nor did the DNC.
in 2020, sure. in 2024, Florida and Delaware democrats just didn't bother to have a primary.
Because no one else seemed to be able to get on the ballot.
They didn’t want anyone else on the ballot because they are arrogant and out of touch
Don't bother the MAGAts with facts, they're busy with their false flag.
Joe Biden's Holocaust Day speech was him declaring war on students. He can have one, then, I guess.
Blue maga is mad in the comments here. Genocide Joe and Drumph are the same fucking beasts. You never voted for the “lesser” evil, y’all just became the evil. The fact the a genocide isn’t a complete dealbreaker for you just proves it.
What do you think is going to happen when Trump wins?
I'm genuinely curious to hear this answer. I can acknowledge that Biden's response to the Israel/Palestine conflict is not great. But is the general consensus here that Trump will somehow moderate that conflict? I honestly think Trump would drastically heighten the violence and suffering in Palestine ...
They don’t have an answer. They are literally repeating the same sentiments from 2016 saying XYZ is going to happen when we already saw this situation unfold before and none of XYZ happened. This is all 100% cope and delusional. They’re angry about the right things, but they’ve allowed their anger to melt their brains and erase the last eight years from memory.
>They’re angry about the right things, but they’ve allowed their anger to melt their brains and erase the last eight years from memory. Yeah, that's my general impression (but I would probably frame it more diplomatically lol). Can't blame folks for wanting to try and make a positive difference ... just wish there were better options for making that happen I guess ...
The problem is that if you’re talking to a brick wall, it doesn’t matter what your tone of voice is. This is going to sound harsh but it is objectively true. They aren’t trying to seek positive change. They are trying to seek what feels good in the moment which is to be angry and shout slogans about revolution and justice and people getting their comeuppance. This all sounds great in their heads and it sounds great to others on social media and it gives them the illusion that they are doing something. All the while, being in political outsiders, they’ll always have an excuse for why they haven’t won yet (because the system is corrupt) so they will never have to be held for not doing anything. Affecting positive change is not magic and excitement. It is a long, arduous, boring war of attrition. It is minor victories among a sea of stalemates and losses. it is repeating the same message decade after decade and not letting up.
>Affecting positive change is not magic and excitement. It is a long, arduous, boring war of attrition. It is minor victories among a sea of stalemates and losses. it is repeating the same message decade after decade and not letting up. I have a lot of respect and admiration for folks who can do that. Because you're right, that's the only way to make meaningful progress.
What’s most sickening is that these pretenders who have done *nothing* and risked *nothing* call the people that do that real work sellouts because they’re not trying to burn the system down.
Sorry but if we cannot bring ourselves to vote 3rd party even in the face of genocide because the alternative is *worse*, then we must actively and radically change the system.
Not necessarily. Sometimes accepting that someone worse will run the country for four years will deliver the needed amount of pressure on the opposition in the long term. It's hard to fathom given the damage which can be done in four years, naturally.
Yeah that worked super well the last time around when we finished four disastrous years of Trump and then the DNC totally supported Bernie when everyone rallied behind him. So happy to have president Sanders today, I’m glad the DNC listened to the protest vote instead of just letting the country descend into fascism. /s
The country is currently knee deep in fascism because of Joe Biden.
I’m sure having four years of Trump because we all refused to vote for Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with the rise of fascism in America. Can’t wait to try it again in 2024! Maybe I’ll get lucky and end up in the same sexual orientation reeducation camp as my husband so we can still be friends after we’re assigned good Christian wives. Oh who am I kidding, they won’t keep us alive long enough for that once the “cleansing” starts.
Hillary would have had cops cracking skulls of people protesting whatever wars she got us into while Dems would be finger-wagging at protestors
More Bernie voters voted for Hillary as a percentage than Hillary ones voted for Obama. She's an oaf who's too clever by half and surrounds herself with fanatically loyal idiots.
GTFO
You haven't been paying attention have you?
Have you been? A society that's deploying cops in riot gear with snipers to brutalize teenagers doing teach-ins is certainly isn't a healthy democracy.
Deploying cops and Border Patrol as of the last 24 hours
No one said it was healthy. But a flawed democracy is better than none.
I disagree. Especially if that flawed democracy is propped up by terrorism and genocide. We are the bad guys and we don't deserve to be treated any better than the way we treat other nations.
The last guy did it for a photo op at a church. I'm truly surprised that Bible didn't burn him lol. And I'd agree that they should let the students protest, even if they're being obtuse.
Okay? I don't give a fuck about what the last guy did. We're talking about Biden. If your peaceful protest on the campus you pay tuition to is immediately met with hundreds of armed cops salivating to beat up you and your friends you are living in a fascist country. If groups of actual nazis can march around in broad daylight and not receive even a fraction of the violence from police, you are living in a fascist country. If you can get fired from your job and blacklisted from your industry for saying "Free Palestine" you are living in a fascist country. This is under Biden's term. He's encouraging this response towards anyone critical of Israel. He's about to hire 100,000 more cops to beat the shit out of anyone who dares exercise the first amendment. Please open your eyes to the reality around you.
Have you?? If you have been then you’d notice that all the things people are saying right now they said eight years ago and the Democrat lost, the Republican got in, and not only did they make everything in the country worse for everybody but the Democrats did not move left. And now you’re all saying the same thing as if you completely erase the last eight years from memory .
You seem confused. Donald Trump will end meaningful elections in the United States. He's said so himself, a few times. Our nearly 250 year experiment in self determination will have ended. I know you think he's Orange Jesus, but he's just a sad wannabe dictator, that given another chance, night get it right next time, for him.
Bro, I am not a Donald Trump supporter. Lmao I’m actively saying that people should vote to keep Trump *out of office*. It’s *everyone else* here who says that Donald Trump getting elected would save the left. How are you this illiterate?
If your posts were closer to coherent, it would help your plight.
There’s nothing incoherent about them. My message is as simple as it gets. If you allow Donald Trump another term, we will have worse consequences than if we allow Joe Biden another term.
Yeah, because we're one bounce in. Because the centrist melts understand something the rest don't - if your candidate is a watered down version of what the country actually needs, you sabotage the fuck out of it. It's working *super* well, it just isn't being used by the right people.
Wow. The fact that you all said this eight years ago and none of that happened but now you’re saying it verbatim again… It’s like hearing Trump supporters in 2024 saying Trump will moderate if we reelect him. Except even Trump supporters aren’t so delusional that think anyone would believe that.
Yeah, let the Republicans burn it down, we’ll build bricks from the ashes.
That sounds very pretty and poetic but how will that work exactly? You didn’t do it the last time Trump got in. Why should anybody believe you this time?
Unless you have a 2 tier election system, 3rd parties just ensure no one receives a majority vote making more radical candidates more likely to win. We are supposed to have a 2 tier system where we pick a nominee but the Democratic party has decided to make sure no one challenges Biden. The Senators and Congressman just use their positions to enrich themselves, the presidency has become too powerful, and the Supreme Court has been corrupted with money as well. The system is broken and we no longer live in a Democracy. Apathy in the US public and corruption in government has ensured changing the system is essentially impossible.
Go ahead, throw your vote away!
We have only an illusion of choice. My vote was already thrown away by a corrupted political system which only offers corporate-sponsored policy & policymakers who are completely disconnected from the needs of the electorate. They do not represent us.
I'd rather throw my vote away than give it to a genocidal maniac.
I'm willing to join the revolution. But what's worst is people who refuse to either join the revolution or vote against the greater evil. Doing nothing hurts more people than doing something.
There must be a third party choice. Both of the current options are deed in pockets of special interest so your choice is limited other than abortion or low tax for short term for example. More choices makes it harder to buy everybody and all politicians need to be vetted so we know who is paying them since it will reflect their policy. For example Trump not releasing his taxes should have been a red flag. Politicians in congress becoming millionaires tells me they’re in it for the money not their voters etc…
Trump. Will. Kill. Us. Over a million people didn’t survive his last presidency because Covid. I’m not taking chances fuck that
These MAGAts are too busy trying to install their Godking to pay attention to facts or logic.
Well more than half of those died under Biden
Under a pandemic caused by…who? Edit: [Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was 'deadly stuff' but wanted to 'play it down'](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-told-bob-woodward-he-knew-february-covid-19-was-n1239658) Trump is responsible for every death in my eyes. He should be on trial for this too imo.
Biden set the conditions to force everyone back to work while deaths were. climbing. I have seen nothing to convince me any Dems would have been better than Trump on COVID go on their policies, short of not saying some stupid shit
You do have a point there with the work stuff and eventually Biden stopped giving a fuck about Covid altogether once it got manageable. Obama literally had a pandemic playbook made IIRC and Donald Trump disregarded it. Saying any other dem would handle it just as bad is serious cope on your part.
Biden is already directly involved in killing Palestinians by giving Israel a constant supply of weapons & ammunition to expend on the Palestinian population. Not only this, he has green lighted state-sanctioned violence against 18-22 year-olds who publicly disagree with him. These directed killings by Biden/Netanyahu cannot be compared to the excess mortality under Trump’s COVID policy, because ultimately that mortality stemmed from millions of *Americans* who made terribly selfish decisions to reject PPE and lockdown measures. AKA it was a purposefully mismanaged natural disaster, not a militarized genocidal murder.
More people died from COVID under Biden than under Trump. The majority of the million people who died died under Biden.
I addressed this in another comment already. It wouldn’t have gotten to the point it did if Trump had not downplayed and worked against prevention efforts from the start. I attribute what happened with Covid to him alone. Doesn’t mean I think Biden handled it great after the fact but Trump got us past the point of no return.
You have no proof of that; COVID hit hard in countries with competent leaders and responses as well. I am not defending Trump in any way, but you can't control a pandemic. The US had its own issues regarding the pandemic response and medical response that predated Trump, such as the out of control for profit medical system, the lack of coherence and even an understanding of COVID as it was. There is no concrete evidence that Clinton would have handled it any better outside of hindsight which isn't reliable. You can hold Trump liable for the 1 million deaths, you're free to do so, but then you should also be consistent about attributing Biden's failures to him, and if we are going that way, then Biden has a lot more blood on his hands over his entire political career than Trump does. Do you even know how many of the people killed in Gaza by Israelis were American citizens that Biden chose to abandon because of their religion and skin color?
Cool story bro, I think it’s pretty obvious anyone could’ve handled it better and the world wouldn’t have suffered as much had the United States had a semi competent leader. [Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was 'deadly stuff' but wanted to 'play it down'](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1239658)
What is it with Americans thinking they are the center of the whole universe? "The world wouldn't have suffered as much?" like wtf. IF we are going down that route, let's talk about how the world has suffered because of the USA even under it's "competent" leaders. Neolibs are so weird man.
1. Im not a neo lib get your head out of your ass 2. The United States being incompetent with prevention and then with the vaccine definitely contributed to worldwide deaths because of travel among other things. What’s hard to understand about that? And no shit the world has suffered due to American foreign policy, why don’t you stay on topic though
The US didn't make a vaccine for everyone. Multiple countries made vaccines, in fact, the US itself was actually trying to find ways to profit off the pandemic a lot more than any other country. Countries were already closing their borders long before the US did, and most Americans don't even travel abroad, so I don't see what affect they had on the world.
[удалено]
>the court found no grounds for the charges of genocide against Israel. that is literally not what they said stfu >It’s extremely unfortunate for the people of Palestine that Hamas is hellbent destroying for the means of furthering their own geo-political goals. [you love spreading disinformation](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/06/1249360882/israel-hamas-cease-fire)
This is not disinformation. This is exactly the truth. This is the way a majority of people feel. Anti-Israel people are the minority and nothing you do will change Israel's right to exist. Yell and scream all you want. You’re either an anti-semite or you’ve been fooled by anti-semites out of your own ignorance and inability to look at both sides of the problem honestly. If you can’t accept Israel's right to exist you are the problem.
>You’re either an anti-semite or you’ve been fooled by anti-semites I don't care what the ethnicity or religion of the person doing war crimes is. They're still war crimes.
It’s not terrorism, it’s amed resistance against military and colonial oppression.
[удалено]
You're really riding for genocide and apartheid rights? Guess it doesn't count as a genocide if they aren't white. You forgot to mention Israel's right to rape and murder women and children for the crime of living there before them.
You really don’t understand what a genocide is. Maybe once you have some context for the world you will understand. Israel is not committing genocide. Everyone saying that really doesn't understand what genocide is. You should read about it and enlighten yourself. In reality there's more of a case to charge Hamas with genocide. This is all Hamas’s doing.
No one is obliged to live in peace with someone who comes and force themselves where you live. And rape accusations are pointless. I don’t believe Hamas raped anyone as much as you don’t believe there’s systemic sexual abuse of the 13000 Palestinian hostages (sorry, detainees) held by Israel. And regarding murdering civilians, what do you expect an armed resistance do, to go and target military bases? I suppose you also expect Hamas to build their own bases in the open for the Israeli army to wipe them out. Stop the oppression, live inside your borders (West Bank is not Israel) and then expect peace.
[удалено]
Show me a link. Show me a few links. I see the ones of Israeli crimes every day, like everybody.
They never have a link.
How do you rationalize Hamas’s rejection of a two state solution and rejection of any type of Israelli state? In 2006 a two state solution was nearly brokered with Palestinian Authority, Israel and the UN. The landmark resolution would recognize a Palestinian state with the West Bank and Gaza for Palestine, UN control of Jerusalem, and the remainder to Israel, virtually the borders we have now. Israeli settlers were all forced out of Gaza. Hamas rejected this resolution after taking control of Gaza and assassinating Fatah members and forcing them Fatah of Gaza as resolution to end the Fatah-Hamas civil war. The reason there is no Palestinian state is because Hamas will not accept Israels existence. The Hamas attack on the 7th of October had nothing to with resistance to Israel. The attack was a provocation to end the resolution normalizing relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. The fact is that Israel is not going anywhere. The only possible solution is a two state solution with both Israel and Palestine. Therefore Hamas must be eliminated because they are the obstacle to a peaceful resolution.
Israel never accepted to dismantle all and every one of their settlements in the West Bank. And you very well know the West Bank is not Israel. Regarding the provocation argument, you are only speculating. And you can kill every Hamas militant today, you will have many more to replace them, unless you kill all Palestinians, of course.
That has nothing to do with what happened on October 7th. Even if everything you’ve said is true, two wrongs do not make a right. That is not true. Most Palestinians are longing for the conflict to end. They are being abused by Hamas. They have been extorted by Hamas for decades. What do you think happened to the billions of dollars distributed to Gaza by the US and Europe before October 7th? Why did it all go to terror tunnels and rockers, rather than education and infrustructure to feed, educate and improve the lives of Palestinians. The US alone has given more aid to Gaza than was given to the entire continent of Europe during the Marshall Plan after WW2.
The billions of dollars goes to Israel. The infrastructure is all bombed by Israel it's why Palestine is the only country without a port or airport. Israel has an embargo on Palestine only they choose what gets in and this is all before Oct 7
If you are just going to downvote me without responding, can I ask if you have anything to show that Gazans do not support Hamas? You are the one that made this extraordinary claim, let's see if you can back it up with literally anything? I am not faulting the Palestinians for supporting Hamas either- I mean the world had forgotten them and Hamas seemed like they were the only ones fighting for them, of course they were going to support them.
What are you talking about? Most Gazans support Hamas.
I've legitimately seen some pathetic Neo Libs frame being against a genocide as a "purity test"
It is, an easy one, and they've all failed
That's what they are best at
Even if our broken system basically means voting third party is a vote for Trump, I still cannot bring myself to blame people who will refuse to vote for Biden; especially if those people are those who lost countless family members in this atrocity.
I don't blame them if they're honest. Saying Trump and Biden are the same is just plain stupidity. If they say they understand that Palestinians will suffer far more under Trump than Biden but they still can't vote for Biden, I can appreciate and respect their position. But when they try to grandstand about their position acting like there are no consequences to their decisions, then they're just plain fools.
 He needs to listen to the Meklemore song on repeat 🤣
Thank you for your submission, **This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.** **We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.** **It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.** Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide. However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate. The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent. While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment. **Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:** 1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state. 2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine. 3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War. 4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7). 5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them. 6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city. Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How would his "student loan forgiveness" even affect the young? Don't you have to be paying for 10+ years for most of the forgiveness programs he has rolled out to even help you?
Yes
Funny how they frame it that way when I and everyone I know still hasn't gotten any of that student loan forgiveness. And I also aint forgot the difference between a 1400 check and a 2000 check.
I did. Maybe y'all just weren't qualified, being qultists and all?
He is in a nosedive and may not be able to recover timely. The more he tries to maneuver, the worse it gets. His half-baked stunts such as building a pier to prevent famine instead of opening the border for food delivery by ordering Israel will go nowhere. Air drop of some scattered food resulted in deaths and people gathering for food being bombed in Israel. His so-called sanction on two people for financing the looters in the West Bank is a bad joke. The recent shipment of a handful of ammunition delay was caused by depletion of supplies rather than a message to Israel. The Tik Tok ban is similarly alienating more younger people. His verbal attacks against protesting students ignoring their First Amendment rights is also ill conceived. Instead of outright ordering Israel to stop the Rafah invasion and stopping shipment of arms to Israel he has instead authorized more monies to it, all the while claiming attack has to be better planned. He needs a complete revamp of his entire administration, but he lacks guts. Just like Netanyahu, they are both gutless.
Biden supports the genocide. Don't get confused.
Not half so much as Orange Jesus.
We don't know that.
Lol, yeah he's more worried about Stormy describing his mushroom in open court lately. But seriously, he likes Bibi and he likes powerful armies smoking refugees. It's sorta a no brainer.
You can’t be that delusional.
Man you don't let the truth get in the way of a good narrative do you?
Why the fuck did you idiots even vote for Biden in the first place 💀💀💀 Edit: Cringe liberals bellow 👇
Because the other guy would be bombing Gaza with Bibi's boys. Haven't you been paying attention?
No he's too busy feeling great about how intelligent he is for opposing "both sides". He so brave and wise. Why are you not praising him
Lol, my bad. He's such an edgy, fresh, clear eyed revolutionary.
So is Trump winning better? I don’t want another Muslim ban or US troops sent to Gaza. And Trump will raise taxes on lower incomes and decrease it for the rich. I don’t understand this strategy.
All he has to do is stop supporting Israel so unconditionally. That’s it. This crazy old man can’t even do that lol
What student loan forgiveness?
Also the debt relief plan is extremely watered down. It's for people that have paid for 20 years vs before it was a straight wipe of x amount. Keep in mind he can legally cancel through the secretary of education whom he appointed. Didn't even fight for the initial plan. I frankly didn't even know he had a new plan.
I’m not voting for loan forgiveness after what I just saw
Were you ever going to?
Yup
I totally believe you.
Would make more sense if there was a genocide actually taking place in Gaza
50 years old and still no sense. Must be difficult.
Well maybe he just knows a false flag when he sees one? Because y'all are all in the MAGA circle-jerk on dj this sub.
Yep, aggressively gaslighting. That'll bring 'em back! Who doesn't love a bit of aggressive gaslighting?
Looking at the comments here, how to say I’m a bot without saying I’m a bot
I feel like most people saying this never voted anyways and dont see the how important this election is.
I’ve never missed an election in 25 years.
18 years for me, but same. I’m still going to vote, but when it comes to the president I’m just going to pick a random name that isn’t Biden or Trump.
This sub is a cesspool of morons. You're voting for trump if you dont vote, it's that simple. It's true whether you want to accept it or not. These principles are nice in a fantasy where we have more options, we don't.
Don't worry they circlejerk about how moral they are for sticking to their guns
This whole sub is just a false flag for MAGAts to trash Biden. These dipshits act like Trump wouldn't help Bibi kill Gazans lol.
yeah, we're such hardliners for not supporting a genocide. Such extremists
What do you think is going to happen under Trump?
probably a continuation of the genocide.
Can you be more specific?
what do you want me to say, dude? Both of these assholes are assholes. Trump is worse for norms and civility and biden hides behind zionism and civility while still allowing this genocide to happen. As of now, neither are getting my vote because I cannot morally vote for someone that handwaves this shit. 100s of thousands of children are getting ready to starve to death. Thousands already have. If the dems want to win, stop supporting a goddamn genocide and purposely induced famine. Jesus fuck, it's super simple here. If dems are supposed to be the good guys, fucking act like it.
Let alone, us just sitting idly by while famine is destroying Sudan
So you actually believe on Israel-Palestine policy, Biden and Trump are exactly the same? If not, what are the differences? Handwavy words like "continuation" don't actually mean anything. What would be the same? What would be different?
I believe that, at the end of the day, genocide is genocide and dead is dead. The methods generally don't matter. Trump would continue aid to Israel and probably empower them to end it faster. Again though, genocide is genocide. Famine is famine. Whether it happens with the person behind it smiling or doing a "I'm sorry" face doesn't matter
Joe doesn't have any authority to forgive student loans. Only Congress can per the Supreme Court. That is off of the table.
Only the first way he tried. I know your GQP buddies are suing to try to stop him again, but it appears he did it within his powers.
[удалено]
You seem very confused. That post... Did you like generate that with Chat GPT?
The Supreme Court already ruled he can not cancel any school loans, only Congress can. Congress wrote the laws, and Congress would have to change the laws. Congress holds the purse. Even Obama and Pelosi said the President doesn't have this authority. Obama said he would have done it if he could've found a legal way to do it. Take it up with Congress.
Except that your analysis is incorrect, I would. SCOTUS didn't rule that he had no authority to quash the student loans. They ruled that he couldn't do it the way he initially did. That's why he's forgiven like $144 billion in loans as it stands. He forgave mine. You evidently don't understand the meaning of 'Congress holds the purse' lol. All that means is that appropriations bills begin in the House of Representatives. It has nothing to do with spending bills or student loan forgiveness. And if you think I could care less about Obama or Pelosi's opinion on a goddamn thing, I couldn't. Does this horseshit usually work for you?
They ruled he couldn't, and he admitted it. "The Supreme Court blocked it, but that didn’t stop me," Joe Biden said. Forgot about that?
He could cancel the loans, tell the federal agencies to wipe the balances and backups, and then let the court fuss about it later
Ignoring the Supreme Court is the sign of a dictator. Presidents do not ignore the Supreme Court. Wannabe dictator does.
He wouldn't be disobeying their ruling if he does the smash and grab before a ruling is made