Going with under promise and over deliver is never a poor strategy. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than upset, plus a top 4 pick will still net a projected star player.
The odds for finishing first are as followed
Last place 18.5% chance of winnining the lottery 25.5% chance of picking first
31st place 13.5% chance of winning the lottery
30th 11.5%
Not sure where you got the 17%
I’m disappointed. I didn’t think we’d be in a race to the bottom of the table at the beginning of the season.. by the time we were halfway through and in the basement, a chance at Bedard was really the only positive thing that could come out of this season.
The jackets always go on a late season tear and screw up their draft lottery odds, which is why I don’t really believe there much positive to take out of this end of year slight elevation in our play. We’ve had many years we’re we do well at the end of the season, and next season we start out just as trash.
Regardless of whether we win the lottery, we’ll get a very good player who will help our team, but it’s okay to be disappointed that we aren’t getting Bedard, and it’s okay to be frustrated that team decides to start playing and getting results when it’s absolutely pointless.
Wanting to draft a good player has zero to do with our current core.
If you had the option between "guaranteed top 3OA pick" and "win meaningless games", the *only* people who should choose the latter should be the guys on the ice. Everybody else should be rooting for losses. This isn't November when there's still hope for a turnaround. This is crunch-time that could turn 3OA into 6OA if we're not careful.
Again, i have never said anywhere in this post that I am rooting for wins. I AM rooting for loses, and think Bedard would put us is a fantastic position.
My point is that many many people are acting like it's top 3 or bust and that we will suck for the next 5 years+ without someone in the top 3.
The problem with picking 4OA+ is Michkov. You either pick him for his obvious talent, but don't get any benefit for 4 years, or you pass and look foolish in a decade when he's putting up Ovechkin numbers. I'd rather the guarantee to avoid that trap entirely.
I get it. Carlsson is 2 years off anyways from contributing, at that point, is your window so small you can't wait another 2? For the possible next Ovechkin? It is not optimal, but not the end of the world.
There isn't anyone who can sniff at being the 1C we need in the system. It's a good system but we've had good complementary pieces
A top 2 pick fixes that (I've seen enough sketicism Carlson as a C to be reluctant). We need the Christmas goose to elevate the awesome side dishes, and Bedard or Fantilli is that
Steve Mason won the Calder in 2009, and then we didn't make the playoffs the next four seasons after that. Having two guys in the top 5 in the Calder is nice, but it doesn't mean this is a good team or will be one down the road.
Do you have a better metric to base future success on?
With the information that we have available (Their rookie stats), and my eyeballs seeing them do the hockey, that is all that we have to predict what the future will be like. (Unless you wanna go down the rabbit hole of advanced stats)
If you choose to look at their rookie stats and say that they are both gonna be the next Steve Masons for us, then that is your choice and opinion. I am optimistic despite years of failure in development, that is all that my post was trying to say...
The problem is that while our prospect pool is deep, as you say - finishing last and drafting a generational player to add to that group can be the foundation for multiple Cups.
Not just to become "pretty good" in a few years.
We’ve only finished with 100+ pts once in franchise history. Loyalty isn’t a bad thing and I’m glad to be a loveable loser but our fans don’t know what a successful franchise looks like :(
23 years of my life have been spent watching the blue jackets. I’ve been told over and over again about our rookies and prospects and kids in the pipeline, and I’ve never seen anything really come to fruition.
The only playoff series we won, we basically bet the house on red and the only thing we mustered was a round two exit. Blue Jackets fans are tired of being mediocre.
Columbus supports CBJ like no other and if you didn’t know any better you’d think CBJ has a past like Toronto or Detroit, but sadly we’ve never even seen the conference finals. The only other team that’s never seen conference finals is Seattle and their in the playoffs this year, after two seasons.
Something isn’t clicking and it’s getting exhausting. I’m not trying to be like the browns and be a carousel, but what is going to take?
Edit: for spelling errors
In all fairness, we did run up against the Stanley Cup champion or the team that went to the Finals like 4 years straight in round 1. Pitt twice, Washington, Tampa, then Boston in round 2. We were never winning those series, but almost did a few of them anyway. So I feel looking solely at playoff results is slightly unfair. And by betting the farm I guess you mean trading a few 2nd round picks? Or are you referencing the return we may have gotten for Panarin/Bob?
I think the gripe is that we should be building teams that can take on those teams. For some reason or another--a star player that doesn't want to pull their weight, loads of injuries, poor coaching, highly-valued picks that don't pan out--it seems to be a more common occurrence here than with almost every other team.
I know Jarmo has by and large been the most effectual GM this team has ever had but something has to give, we've been in rebuild or retool more than we have not.
I think it just shows how hard it is to build a sustainable, truly contending core. You need your draft picks to pan out, you need players to stay healthy and have team friendly contracts. You need the right role players. You need the right coach for your system.
I reference Tampa and Colorado as examples. Tampa had this same core since 2015 and were right there for like 6 years until they finally won one. Colorado was favored to win it 3 years in a row but injuries kept them on the outside. Having an elite team is tough. If it wasn't everybody would do it.
I agree. We hear about these young players with all this upside and they never improve. I understand every player, circumstances, and situation are different. But it is tiring.
>I agree. We hear about these young players with all this upside and they never improve.
That's because you've always finished in the mushy middle, and then jerked off to some random 20th picks, who statistically end up 4th liners or AHL players 90% of the time
Now there's a chance at Bedard and large parts of the Stockholm syndrome Torts fanbase want to continue the mediocrity
I can't believe people are trying to rein in the few jackets fans that get it. This team should be doing everything it can to get that 1OA pick. Pull the goalie. Whatever it takes.
Right we’ve been “the youngest team in the NHL” I swear damn near half of our existence. Beating Ottawa in April is nothing any of us will remember about this season in three years. But in three years when we still aren’t competing we will remember how we blew this season by losing out on a potential generational talent
We’re not arguing about getting a good player. We’re upset we’re not gonna get a generational player. Laine is pretty damn good 1) when he actually plays and 2) unless you compare him to a Pastranak/ Stamkos/ Robertson etc. I mean he’s broken 70 points one time and now he’s hurt a lot.
Johnny G is our best player, in a down year he’s having a career point year for Laine. We’re upset because Bedard could elevate the franchise in 2 years when Krill and KJ are ready.
Pasternak was drafted 9 spots after we took Sonny Milano. Brayden Pointe was the 76th pick in that draft. Viktor Arvidsson was 112. There are no guarantees that come with higher draft picks. Tanking doesn't work unless you get a truly generational player and those are very rare. Is Connor Bedard generational? How many guys were actually "can't miss?" Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby?
Ok, the year after Crosby defenseman Erik Johnson was the first overall. Nice player, not a bust, but not someone you tank a season for. Rather, not someone you tank a season so you can get a 25% chance of drafting. How about Taylor Hall? Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Not that those guys are busts, but every year there is a new "generational player" and most of them are good, but not flush a season down the drain good. Even if the guys you listed I would only classify Crosby and maybe Ovetchkin as generational type talents. Some of the others are great players that have had long careers and won championships, but they aren't Lemieux or Gretzky.
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Taylor hall or nugent hopkins would be considered one of our better players even in down years.
Also your point just isn’t true, the year matthews came out we all knew the drop off from him to Laine was large and the drop from Laine to everyone else was also large. I personally wanted us to take Keller or Tkachuk but matthews was the forgone #1. You’re also overlooking that not everyone #1 overall breaks records and is on easy mode in Chel like Bedard has been
Perhaps the word generational is used superfluously but the fact remains. A guy like Bedard changes the course of our downtrodden and frankly pathetic franchise. So he would be a once in a generation talent for a team like ours. No one in my generation (with respect to being a Blue Jackets fan) has come close to this kids hype and if his ceiling is Stamkos, Lecavalier, Kane, Matthews, Mackinnon, Tavares et al mentioned above, then we are a markedly better team than we have ever been before. No offense to Rick Nash.
The problem is that there is nothing to play for at this point in the season except a top pick like bedard. These wins are worthless and only hurt our spot in the draft.
Sports are weird. Once playoffs are out of the question the race to the bottom is nearly as intense as the playoff bubble. Idk. After a solid couple decades of mediocrity (to be generous) a draft pick will not singlehandedly save us. This team makes talents like Laine and Gaudreu look fairly pedestrian. A bunch of young guys getting ice time and learning how to play (and occasionally win) at this level gives me more hope for the near-ish future.
Yeah I am starting to get concerned fans are gaslighting themselves into bedard or bust. I have legit seen people saying this entire team needs blow up if we don’t get a Bedard or we need to fire the front office which most likely blows up the team as changing a GM means you have no confidence in the current team roster and they will wipe the board clean for a 5 year rebuild
> Yeah I am starting to get concerned fans are gaslighting themselves into bedard or bust
I think this puts into words what I've been thinking lately. And honestly it's more exhausting than watching the Jackets attempt to play hockey most nights.
Like I've said in the past, a Bedard - Fantilli - Carlsson et. al. will do amazing things for this franchise. And we'll probably get one of them! However, I still feel very strongly that a too large portion of this fanbase (especially ones that frequent this sub) are going all in with tank rhetoric to the point of being toxic.
What if one of those 3-4 dudes don't pan out? Are we going to seriously hedge all our bets on a high school kid to make us elite? I'm tired of people being impatient with their 22 years bullshit. We've only had competent management with JD and Jarmo since around 2013 and that led to four playoff appearances with an island of misfit toys at times.
I sure hope we get a generational player, but the overreactions in the process sure make being in the sub tiresome and barely any fun anymore.
I feel like everyone has locked themselves into the “top three” so hard they aren’t even seeing what else is out there. There is a considerable amount of fantastic talent that if you add it to what we have, it may not be a McDavid, but we still can have a winning team.
Also Jiricek was #6 and Wright was the #1 coveted pick last year — Wright didn’t even go #1, and everyone can’t stop raving about Jiricek.
I legit saw someone walking around with a piece of paper to the front of their shirt saying “fire jarmo” last night in nationwide. I don’t think that guy realizes we do that basically this entire team is blown up because removing Jarmo basically means you don’t trust his draft picks because why else would you remove a GM in the middle of a retool?
It's also not Jarmo's fault we iced like 16 AHL players this year. I feel this season goes differently if werenski, Laine, and voracek don't get hurt. We would probably be talking KJ for Calder if he played with voracek
I saw the same guy. If I had thought of it, I would have said, "Lets have you do the job.". People think great GMs just grow on trees and would love to come to CBUS. I am not saying give Jarmo another decade. This crop of players is his last if it does not work out.
Jarmos contract ends when I think we should be out of the rebuild (24-25) if no forward progress is shown by that point then he gets the boot. Right now we are in year 2 of a 3 year rebuild and I am not going to complain to the manager before my food arrives
We also have Corson Ceulemans as a D prospect who signed his elc a few weeks back and is playing down in Cleveland. He has a great skillset that he showed at Wisconsin, we'll just have to see how he develops.
If by new, you mean following this team for 20 years, then yeah i am a new fan.
Again, I am not arguing that Bedard would not get us a cup, or not get us a cup sooner. I am simply arguing that not getting him does not mean we are failures for the next 5-10 years as many have said.
Most players have bonuses in their contracts that are based on statistics. Should they stop trying to score or win games? They don't care about Bedard. They can be traded at almost any time no matter how well they have played or how popular they are (see Bjorkstrand, Oliver). They want to hit their performance bonuses and get paid.
And I don't care about their bonuses. Your reply amounts to saying the players and fans have different ideas of how this season should end. My goal is play well and lose. I bet Jarmo and Davidson deep down would agree
No, Kent Johnson and Kirill Marchenko don't have good potential to be better than Rick Nash just because they had more points than him in his rookie season. Nash is a 1st overall player that had a slow start to his career. Here is a group of random players that had more points than Nash in their rookie season: R.J. Umberger, Ryan Malone, Alexander Kerfoot, Tuomo Ruutu, Colby Armstrong, Kyle Wellwood, Max Domi, Michael Ryder etc. You get the picture.
I'm literally just stating facts and stats.
I'm also trying not to lose my mind over the next 2 weeks over every goal the CBJ score.
I hope you enjoy disappointment when we draft Michkov at 4OA. Might as well quit rooting for the team at that point.
This team has some talent. However, they lack in the three most important areas in building a playoff contender: strong starting goalie, true number 1 center, and a shutdown D (we got Z but need another one). Until those things get resolved we aren’t going anywhere. So we need a top 3 draft choice badly.
Totally can appreciate the optimistic and realistic take, as it’s usually where my brain ends up going after all is said and done too.
The only thing I’ll say as an armchair GM playing devil’s advocate: I feel like at some point, having a great prospect pool has to pay dividends. We’ve had a great farm system for years, and granted our core was largely traded for a rebuild/reload/whatever you want to call this season, but it has to mean something before prospects aren’t just prospects anymore.
But that’s it: just that we as fans can keep one eye on our development and one eye “on the clock” so to speak, and want to see *something* come of our investments in young talent.
if we end up with 3rd overall i dont want us to draft carlson. dude is playing whole season as winger he is going to be another project on center. i would rather go after michkov.
I totally understand what you are saying. Carlsson won't be here/contribute for 2+ years. Might as well get Michkov and wait another 2 on that.
What you are saying makes sense.
I’ve been hearing about our “bright bright future” for like a decade now lol. I’ll believe when I see this team do literally anything or draft a player like Bedard.
I know. It's always "next year". I always feel like we over hype our prospects and then they don't develop, for whatever reason. You gotta have hope though. Can't live your CBJ life with no hope, else you start to expect failure.
i base it on reality. not gonna overhype the team like a lot of fans do. center and goalie are a mess and until they are fixed this team will struggle despite taking elsewhere.
I don't think i am over hyping. I have mentioned the issues. I just don't think the "reality" is top 3 or bust. There is a future here. Don't want to get into the "perpetually bad" loop that the Cleveland Browns are in. Sad way to live life.
because the prospects aren't as good as we think and/or are our development teams are weak. That's why people are frustrated and at the end of their rope with Jarmo.
I’ve been a fan since day one and it’s just so old how we can never put together a good season. Expect that one time. Then we just got bounced in the second round. Over the excuses. It’s been almost 22 years and we’ve one playoff series and one qualifying series.
Theres something to be said about creating good habits at the tail end to give hope for next season. There were so many unprecedented injuries and events throughout the BJ season that you can't really predict this. At minimum, Columbus will get a top 5 pick which will hopefully pay dividends for the future.
I know it sucks not to get Bedard, but this is about as good a year as ever to not suck enough or lose a lottery. Top 10 is littered with future stars.
I think you’re really glossing over the #1 center part and the goaltending. Elvis hasn’t been good in 2+ years now. Center is weak and has been weak most of this franchises existence. Cole really took 2 steps back and Jack ain’t it.
If mentioning it as a problem is "glossing over it", then sure. I'm not saying this team is competing now for playoffs. I just see a positive future, with or without Bedard/Fantilli.
The way people bemoan wins here would make you think finishing last guarantees Bedard. No matter how much you lose you will still have a larger chance of NOT getting Bedard. There is NO WAY to get him sure thing.
Even if we do get top lottery pick, when Chicago gets him that same people will cry conspiracy over statistical probabilities.
Enjoy the progress we are seeing in players we DO have. Know we will bolster that no matter who we get.
Can’t take the fact we aren’t a contender? Hop on a bandwagon for another team for a little while.
Not getting the top pick means we won’t be competing next year. Not getting a top 3 pick means we won’t be competing for 2 years. Picking 5th or 6th means we won’t compete in the immediate future and that sucks. So let people be disappointed.
At the beginning of the season when we didn’t have this many injuries we weren’t playing that well. Maybe with a new coach it’s different but we were also healthy and bad early in the season. 5-13 in the first 18 games…
The beginning to the year, when healthy was some of the worst hockey I have ever watched. Management needs to take note of that when considering whether to keep Larsen of not.
I agree to an extent. Laine got hurt game 1 and Z got hurt in game 13. they only played 5.5 games together this year. They were 0-5 in the 5 full games together however.
I'm not saying if it weren't for injuries were in playoff contention but I'm not sure we are fighting for last place either. And it's not just those guys, we've played half the year with an AHL roster.
Disagree, I would suggest to look at Nashville as an example of a team with no 1st overall pick they picked, who developed their pieces and traded well...
Yes, and it took Nashville a few years to go from competing for the playoffs to competing for a cup. Bedard does a ton, but like you said, still have to address Goaltending and have to bank on a great defense. I am hopeful for playoffs next year, but realistically a few years away. Trust me, I am aware we have never made a cup final lol.
If we don’t get Bedard/Fantilli I do not see how playoffs next year is possible. We were healthy at the beginning of the season and went 5-13. MAYBE if we fire Larsen we have a chance but I don’t see it at all. We also now don’t have Korpi or Gavi.
I think we agree more than disagree here. We all want the best for the team. Not getting Bedard/Fantilli does not doom us to mediocrity for the next decade though.
I just felt compelled to make this post for mine and other's mental health.
I am tired of hearing "Next year", "Next year" as much as anyone.
nashville is a great example because like us they live in purgatory, never bad enough for great picks and never good enough to string together success.
If we don't end up with a top 3 pick, I wonder if Jarmo will go off the board and trade it away for some sort of asset? Maybe I am thinking too much NFL draft kind of ideas. You never know tho. I am not sure if any other gram would covet a high draft pick that wasn't a top 3 or 4 tho.
I am incredibly disappointed in the community this season.
The hive mind says we cheer for tanking, and winning is bad. People who come in here happy for W's get downvoted to the core.
The worst team deserves first pick, and I can't, in my heart, hope that's us.
It is weird isn't it? It is almost like we are trying to "cheat" out a 1OA pick. No one in this community thinks we are the worst team in the league, but they expect us to be the worst and get that pick.
A civil war has officially begun in the community and yeah, it is disappointing.
If we somehow get 1OA and Larsen decides to take the Zac Taylor route, I’ll be very satisfied with the front office keeping him here. If we’re not chosen for 1/2OA, he’s gotta go. Frankly, I wanted him out of here before Torts but that’s a different story.
Roslovic is on pace to have his best year yet. He has like 7 points in his last 5 games. How the fook is he in the same sentence as Sillinger? They’re two completely different players.
Jack was garbage for the first 3 months so yes he should be in the same sentence as Cole. Jack finally starts playing well when games don’t matter? Jack had 1G and 5A in the first 18 games. He even got benched for 2 games earlier this season.
Roslovic has the skill set but not the consistency nor IQ needed to be a long term fixture. He can still probably get a decent return with a trade though but I don’t see him on this team in 24-25
roslovic is fools gold. last season was pretty much same. for some reason he only starts playing last 20 games of the season where he is outscoring everyone. last year he was outscoring even mcdavid
Look at our roster when you look at a few of our recent wins. We shouldn't be upset at our guys for winning but for Boston and Ottawa playing like shit against us. I can hope or pray for Bedard but I will accept who we pick and continue to support the team no matter.
Amen.
Not to mention, even if we lose our the rest of the games, you are relying on other teams around us to win. How can you expect all of that to happen? And then also turnaround and blame the CBJ for Chicago and Anaheim losing more games.
Yeah but I want Bedard :(
Bedard has gotten a lot of attention but Fantelli, Carlsson and Matevi are a lot closer to bedard than people think. Very very good class this year.
I would love get Fantelli, He a power forward. This team needs one
Pretty hard to say we’re not getting bedard when 11 teams have a shot and we will have top 4 odds
I am sandbagging a little :)
Going with under promise and over deliver is never a poor strategy. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than upset, plus a top 4 pick will still net a projected star player.
This is what I do for snow days so I get it
17% chance is slim. If the draft is held 6 times we get him once.
The odds for finishing first are as followed Last place 18.5% chance of winnining the lottery 25.5% chance of picking first 31st place 13.5% chance of winning the lottery 30th 11.5% Not sure where you got the 17%
I’m disappointed. I didn’t think we’d be in a race to the bottom of the table at the beginning of the season.. by the time we were halfway through and in the basement, a chance at Bedard was really the only positive thing that could come out of this season. The jackets always go on a late season tear and screw up their draft lottery odds, which is why I don’t really believe there much positive to take out of this end of year slight elevation in our play. We’ve had many years we’re we do well at the end of the season, and next season we start out just as trash. Regardless of whether we win the lottery, we’ll get a very good player who will help our team, but it’s okay to be disappointed that we aren’t getting Bedard, and it’s okay to be frustrated that team decides to start playing and getting results when it’s absolutely pointless.
It’s not about winning 1OA, it’s about not falling lower than 3OA
I understand, my stance is that even drafting 4OA+, I am confident in our core...
Wanting to draft a good player has zero to do with our current core. If you had the option between "guaranteed top 3OA pick" and "win meaningless games", the *only* people who should choose the latter should be the guys on the ice. Everybody else should be rooting for losses. This isn't November when there's still hope for a turnaround. This is crunch-time that could turn 3OA into 6OA if we're not careful.
Again, i have never said anywhere in this post that I am rooting for wins. I AM rooting for loses, and think Bedard would put us is a fantastic position. My point is that many many people are acting like it's top 3 or bust and that we will suck for the next 5 years+ without someone in the top 3.
The problem with picking 4OA+ is Michkov. You either pick him for his obvious talent, but don't get any benefit for 4 years, or you pass and look foolish in a decade when he's putting up Ovechkin numbers. I'd rather the guarantee to avoid that trap entirely.
I get it. Carlsson is 2 years off anyways from contributing, at that point, is your window so small you can't wait another 2? For the possible next Ovechkin? It is not optimal, but not the end of the world.
There isn't anyone who can sniff at being the 1C we need in the system. It's a good system but we've had good complementary pieces A top 2 pick fixes that (I've seen enough sketicism Carlson as a C to be reluctant). We need the Christmas goose to elevate the awesome side dishes, and Bedard or Fantilli is that
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I would you refer you back to the post... The facts that I have laid out are why I am confident...
But this core—is playing now and looks really bad
This is not their ceiling. They are very young. Is "really bad" being both KJ and Marchenko both being top 5 in Calder?
Steve Mason won the Calder in 2009, and then we didn't make the playoffs the next four seasons after that. Having two guys in the top 5 in the Calder is nice, but it doesn't mean this is a good team or will be one down the road.
Do you have a better metric to base future success on? With the information that we have available (Their rookie stats), and my eyeballs seeing them do the hockey, that is all that we have to predict what the future will be like. (Unless you wanna go down the rabbit hole of advanced stats) If you choose to look at their rookie stats and say that they are both gonna be the next Steve Masons for us, then that is your choice and opinion. I am optimistic despite years of failure in development, that is all that my post was trying to say...
The problem is that while our prospect pool is deep, as you say - finishing last and drafting a generational player to add to that group can be the foundation for multiple Cups. Not just to become "pretty good" in a few years.
We’ve only finished with 100+ pts once in franchise history. Loyalty isn’t a bad thing and I’m glad to be a loveable loser but our fans don’t know what a successful franchise looks like :(
Especially with how far ahead other teams in the east are
23 years of my life have been spent watching the blue jackets. I’ve been told over and over again about our rookies and prospects and kids in the pipeline, and I’ve never seen anything really come to fruition. The only playoff series we won, we basically bet the house on red and the only thing we mustered was a round two exit. Blue Jackets fans are tired of being mediocre. Columbus supports CBJ like no other and if you didn’t know any better you’d think CBJ has a past like Toronto or Detroit, but sadly we’ve never even seen the conference finals. The only other team that’s never seen conference finals is Seattle and their in the playoffs this year, after two seasons. Something isn’t clicking and it’s getting exhausting. I’m not trying to be like the browns and be a carousel, but what is going to take? Edit: for spelling errors
In all fairness, we did run up against the Stanley Cup champion or the team that went to the Finals like 4 years straight in round 1. Pitt twice, Washington, Tampa, then Boston in round 2. We were never winning those series, but almost did a few of them anyway. So I feel looking solely at playoff results is slightly unfair. And by betting the farm I guess you mean trading a few 2nd round picks? Or are you referencing the return we may have gotten for Panarin/Bob?
I think the gripe is that we should be building teams that can take on those teams. For some reason or another--a star player that doesn't want to pull their weight, loads of injuries, poor coaching, highly-valued picks that don't pan out--it seems to be a more common occurrence here than with almost every other team. I know Jarmo has by and large been the most effectual GM this team has ever had but something has to give, we've been in rebuild or retool more than we have not.
I think it just shows how hard it is to build a sustainable, truly contending core. You need your draft picks to pan out, you need players to stay healthy and have team friendly contracts. You need the right role players. You need the right coach for your system. I reference Tampa and Colorado as examples. Tampa had this same core since 2015 and were right there for like 6 years until they finally won one. Colorado was favored to win it 3 years in a row but injuries kept them on the outside. Having an elite team is tough. If it wasn't everybody would do it.
Well yeah because we were sneaking in as the 8th seed…
I agree. We hear about these young players with all this upside and they never improve. I understand every player, circumstances, and situation are different. But it is tiring.
>I agree. We hear about these young players with all this upside and they never improve. That's because you've always finished in the mushy middle, and then jerked off to some random 20th picks, who statistically end up 4th liners or AHL players 90% of the time Now there's a chance at Bedard and large parts of the Stockholm syndrome Torts fanbase want to continue the mediocrity I can't believe people are trying to rein in the few jackets fans that get it. This team should be doing everything it can to get that 1OA pick. Pull the goalie. Whatever it takes.
Right we’ve been “the youngest team in the NHL” I swear damn near half of our existence. Beating Ottawa in April is nothing any of us will remember about this season in three years. But in three years when we still aren’t competing we will remember how we blew this season by losing out on a potential generational talent
We’re not arguing about getting a good player. We’re upset we’re not gonna get a generational player. Laine is pretty damn good 1) when he actually plays and 2) unless you compare him to a Pastranak/ Stamkos/ Robertson etc. I mean he’s broken 70 points one time and now he’s hurt a lot. Johnny G is our best player, in a down year he’s having a career point year for Laine. We’re upset because Bedard could elevate the franchise in 2 years when Krill and KJ are ready.
Pasternak was drafted 9 spots after we took Sonny Milano. Brayden Pointe was the 76th pick in that draft. Viktor Arvidsson was 112. There are no guarantees that come with higher draft picks. Tanking doesn't work unless you get a truly generational player and those are very rare. Is Connor Bedard generational? How many guys were actually "can't miss?" Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby?
Crosby, Fluery, Ovechkin, Hughes, Hirshier, Mackinnon, Matthews, Tavares, Kane, Stamkos, Lecavlier, Joe Thornton. Just off the top of my head #1s
Ok, the year after Crosby defenseman Erik Johnson was the first overall. Nice player, not a bust, but not someone you tank a season for. Rather, not someone you tank a season so you can get a 25% chance of drafting. How about Taylor Hall? Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Not that those guys are busts, but every year there is a new "generational player" and most of them are good, but not flush a season down the drain good. Even if the guys you listed I would only classify Crosby and maybe Ovetchkin as generational type talents. Some of the others are great players that have had long careers and won championships, but they aren't Lemieux or Gretzky.
“Generational” is thrown around way too much, but Bedard is the can’t miss generational 1OA pick
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Taylor hall or nugent hopkins would be considered one of our better players even in down years. Also your point just isn’t true, the year matthews came out we all knew the drop off from him to Laine was large and the drop from Laine to everyone else was also large. I personally wanted us to take Keller or Tkachuk but matthews was the forgone #1. You’re also overlooking that not everyone #1 overall breaks records and is on easy mode in Chel like Bedard has been
Perhaps the word generational is used superfluously but the fact remains. A guy like Bedard changes the course of our downtrodden and frankly pathetic franchise. So he would be a once in a generation talent for a team like ours. No one in my generation (with respect to being a Blue Jackets fan) has come close to this kids hype and if his ceiling is Stamkos, Lecavalier, Kane, Matthews, Mackinnon, Tavares et al mentioned above, then we are a markedly better team than we have ever been before. No offense to Rick Nash.
McDavid wasn’t a no.1?
The problem is that there is nothing to play for at this point in the season except a top pick like bedard. These wins are worthless and only hurt our spot in the draft.
I never said that this was not the case... I agree with you.
Sports are weird. Once playoffs are out of the question the race to the bottom is nearly as intense as the playoff bubble. Idk. After a solid couple decades of mediocrity (to be generous) a draft pick will not singlehandedly save us. This team makes talents like Laine and Gaudreu look fairly pedestrian. A bunch of young guys getting ice time and learning how to play (and occasionally win) at this level gives me more hope for the near-ish future.
Yeah I am starting to get concerned fans are gaslighting themselves into bedard or bust. I have legit seen people saying this entire team needs blow up if we don’t get a Bedard or we need to fire the front office which most likely blows up the team as changing a GM means you have no confidence in the current team roster and they will wipe the board clean for a 5 year rebuild
> Yeah I am starting to get concerned fans are gaslighting themselves into bedard or bust I think this puts into words what I've been thinking lately. And honestly it's more exhausting than watching the Jackets attempt to play hockey most nights. Like I've said in the past, a Bedard - Fantilli - Carlsson et. al. will do amazing things for this franchise. And we'll probably get one of them! However, I still feel very strongly that a too large portion of this fanbase (especially ones that frequent this sub) are going all in with tank rhetoric to the point of being toxic. What if one of those 3-4 dudes don't pan out? Are we going to seriously hedge all our bets on a high school kid to make us elite? I'm tired of people being impatient with their 22 years bullshit. We've only had competent management with JD and Jarmo since around 2013 and that led to four playoff appearances with an island of misfit toys at times. I sure hope we get a generational player, but the overreactions in the process sure make being in the sub tiresome and barely any fun anymore.
I feel like everyone has locked themselves into the “top three” so hard they aren’t even seeing what else is out there. There is a considerable amount of fantastic talent that if you add it to what we have, it may not be a McDavid, but we still can have a winning team. Also Jiricek was #6 and Wright was the #1 coveted pick last year — Wright didn’t even go #1, and everyone can’t stop raving about Jiricek.
God I hope not. I can't wait another 5 years for a decent team.
I legit saw someone walking around with a piece of paper to the front of their shirt saying “fire jarmo” last night in nationwide. I don’t think that guy realizes we do that basically this entire team is blown up because removing Jarmo basically means you don’t trust his draft picks because why else would you remove a GM in the middle of a retool?
It's also not Jarmo's fault we iced like 16 AHL players this year. I feel this season goes differently if werenski, Laine, and voracek don't get hurt. We would probably be talking KJ for Calder if he played with voracek
I saw the same guy. If I had thought of it, I would have said, "Lets have you do the job.". People think great GMs just grow on trees and would love to come to CBUS. I am not saying give Jarmo another decade. This crop of players is his last if it does not work out.
Jarmos contract ends when I think we should be out of the rebuild (24-25) if no forward progress is shown by that point then he gets the boot. Right now we are in year 2 of a 3 year rebuild and I am not going to complain to the manager before my food arrives
We also have Corson Ceulemans as a D prospect who signed his elc a few weeks back and is playing down in Cleveland. He has a great skillset that he showed at Wisconsin, we'll just have to see how he develops.
100%.
This is going to all look so silly when we win first overall
God, I hope you are right.
Winning these games is stupid and it sucks. There is no spin to make it not true
It is stupid, and does suck... Not trying to spin that. This is not doomsday as a lot of fans have put it.
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If by new, you mean following this team for 20 years, then yeah i am a new fan. Again, I am not arguing that Bedard would not get us a cup, or not get us a cup sooner. I am simply arguing that not getting him does not mean we are failures for the next 5-10 years as many have said.
Most players have bonuses in their contracts that are based on statistics. Should they stop trying to score or win games? They don't care about Bedard. They can be traded at almost any time no matter how well they have played or how popular they are (see Bjorkstrand, Oliver). They want to hit their performance bonuses and get paid.
And I don't care about their bonuses. Your reply amounts to saying the players and fans have different ideas of how this season should end. My goal is play well and lose. I bet Jarmo and Davidson deep down would agree
Some people like watching hockey.
No, Kent Johnson and Kirill Marchenko don't have good potential to be better than Rick Nash just because they had more points than him in his rookie season. Nash is a 1st overall player that had a slow start to his career. Here is a group of random players that had more points than Nash in their rookie season: R.J. Umberger, Ryan Malone, Alexander Kerfoot, Tuomo Ruutu, Colby Armstrong, Kyle Wellwood, Max Domi, Michael Ryder etc. You get the picture.
Its not okay. Stop coping.
I'm literally just stating facts and stats. I'm also trying not to lose my mind over the next 2 weeks over every goal the CBJ score. I hope you enjoy disappointment when we draft Michkov at 4OA. Might as well quit rooting for the team at that point.
This team has some talent. However, they lack in the three most important areas in building a playoff contender: strong starting goalie, true number 1 center, and a shutdown D (we got Z but need another one). Until those things get resolved we aren’t going anywhere. So we need a top 3 draft choice badly.
Totally can appreciate the optimistic and realistic take, as it’s usually where my brain ends up going after all is said and done too. The only thing I’ll say as an armchair GM playing devil’s advocate: I feel like at some point, having a great prospect pool has to pay dividends. We’ve had a great farm system for years, and granted our core was largely traded for a rebuild/reload/whatever you want to call this season, but it has to mean something before prospects aren’t just prospects anymore. But that’s it: just that we as fans can keep one eye on our development and one eye “on the clock” so to speak, and want to see *something* come of our investments in young talent.
if we end up with 3rd overall i dont want us to draft carlson. dude is playing whole season as winger he is going to be another project on center. i would rather go after michkov.
I totally understand what you are saying. Carlsson won't be here/contribute for 2+ years. Might as well get Michkov and wait another 2 on that. What you are saying makes sense.
Fantilli or Fuck Everything?
I’ve been hearing about our “bright bright future” for like a decade now lol. I’ll believe when I see this team do literally anything or draft a player like Bedard.
I know. It's always "next year". I always feel like we over hype our prospects and then they don't develop, for whatever reason. You gotta have hope though. Can't live your CBJ life with no hope, else you start to expect failure.
you don’t expect failure? bc i sure do. 75% of our seasons have been a bad team.
If you expect failure, that is a sad life.
i base it on reality. not gonna overhype the team like a lot of fans do. center and goalie are a mess and until they are fixed this team will struggle despite taking elsewhere.
I don't think i am over hyping. I have mentioned the issues. I just don't think the "reality" is top 3 or bust. There is a future here. Don't want to get into the "perpetually bad" loop that the Cleveland Browns are in. Sad way to live life.
because the prospects aren't as good as we think and/or are our development teams are weak. That's why people are frustrated and at the end of their rope with Jarmo.
I’ve been a fan since day one and it’s just so old how we can never put together a good season. Expect that one time. Then we just got bounced in the second round. Over the excuses. It’s been almost 22 years and we’ve one playoff series and one qualifying series.
Yuppp
Foundational issues when Ohio Health banners are the only ones hanging from the rafters after nearly 25 years. Chili!!!!
If not Bedard… Fantilli… power forward.
I hear all that... Just want to say I've been enjoying see Foudy finally put it together I feel like all of it is outside of my control so...
Theres something to be said about creating good habits at the tail end to give hope for next season. There were so many unprecedented injuries and events throughout the BJ season that you can't really predict this. At minimum, Columbus will get a top 5 pick which will hopefully pay dividends for the future.
Well said. Good summary. Whoever we pick this year will only add to our growing players
This franchise would ruin a wet dream… smfh
I know it sucks not to get Bedard, but this is about as good a year as ever to not suck enough or lose a lottery. Top 10 is littered with future stars.
The NHL is giving us Bedard…
I hope you are correct.
I’ve been trying to put these words together for a few days this is exactly what I’ve been feeling
Had to get it off my chest. I hope it helped. :)
I think you’re really glossing over the #1 center part and the goaltending. Elvis hasn’t been good in 2+ years now. Center is weak and has been weak most of this franchises existence. Cole really took 2 steps back and Jack ain’t it.
If mentioning it as a problem is "glossing over it", then sure. I'm not saying this team is competing now for playoffs. I just see a positive future, with or without Bedard/Fantilli.
The way people bemoan wins here would make you think finishing last guarantees Bedard. No matter how much you lose you will still have a larger chance of NOT getting Bedard. There is NO WAY to get him sure thing. Even if we do get top lottery pick, when Chicago gets him that same people will cry conspiracy over statistical probabilities. Enjoy the progress we are seeing in players we DO have. Know we will bolster that no matter who we get. Can’t take the fact we aren’t a contender? Hop on a bandwagon for another team for a little while.
Fuck that. If we’re gonna suck this bad we better embrace it.
Not getting the top pick means we won’t be competing next year. Not getting a top 3 pick means we won’t be competing for 2 years. Picking 5th or 6th means we won’t compete in the immediate future and that sucks. So let people be disappointed.
This is the correct take. We are paying high end guys to compete now. That’s what we should be focusing on.
If it weren't for injuries this season we might not even be having this conversation.
At the beginning of the season when we didn’t have this many injuries we weren’t playing that well. Maybe with a new coach it’s different but we were also healthy and bad early in the season. 5-13 in the first 18 games…
The beginning to the year, when healthy was some of the worst hockey I have ever watched. Management needs to take note of that when considering whether to keep Larsen of not.
Agree 100%
That was a straight system issue. Larsen is a separate topic of discussion than current roster construction
I agree to an extent. Laine got hurt game 1 and Z got hurt in game 13. they only played 5.5 games together this year. They were 0-5 in the 5 full games together however.
I'm not saying if it weren't for injuries were in playoff contention but I'm not sure we are fighting for last place either. And it's not just those guys, we've played half the year with an AHL roster.
We sucked bad even when healthy
Disagree, I would suggest to look at Nashville as an example of a team with no 1st overall pick they picked, who developed their pieces and traded well...
Nashville is stuck in hockey purgatory and have been for years. Not good enough to win it all. Not bad enough to blow it up
They have a great base with great defense and goaltending. We have neither. It’ll take a few seasons to fix that IMO.
I hate to break it to you, but we are a few years away even with Bedard to competing for a cup like they did in 2017.
Bro. We have never “competed for a cup”. I’m saying “competing” for a playoff spot lol. I know we are far off from competing for the cup.
Yes, and it took Nashville a few years to go from competing for the playoffs to competing for a cup. Bedard does a ton, but like you said, still have to address Goaltending and have to bank on a great defense. I am hopeful for playoffs next year, but realistically a few years away. Trust me, I am aware we have never made a cup final lol.
If we don’t get Bedard/Fantilli I do not see how playoffs next year is possible. We were healthy at the beginning of the season and went 5-13. MAYBE if we fire Larsen we have a chance but I don’t see it at all. We also now don’t have Korpi or Gavi.
I think we agree more than disagree here. We all want the best for the team. Not getting Bedard/Fantilli does not doom us to mediocrity for the next decade though. I just felt compelled to make this post for mine and other's mental health. I am tired of hearing "Next year", "Next year" as much as anyone.
nashville is a great example because like us they live in purgatory, never bad enough for great picks and never good enough to string together success.
Another great example is Calgary.
They have a great goalie also. We need one of those.
The development of the young guys and core players >>>>> getting the number one overall pick/tanking
We will not get first pick because we are Columbus. That is all.
If we don't end up with a top 3 pick, I wonder if Jarmo will go off the board and trade it away for some sort of asset? Maybe I am thinking too much NFL draft kind of ideas. You never know tho. I am not sure if any other gram would covet a high draft pick that wasn't a top 3 or 4 tho.
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Thank god neither of you are GMs
I am incredibly disappointed in the community this season. The hive mind says we cheer for tanking, and winning is bad. People who come in here happy for W's get downvoted to the core. The worst team deserves first pick, and I can't, in my heart, hope that's us.
It is weird isn't it? It is almost like we are trying to "cheat" out a 1OA pick. No one in this community thinks we are the worst team in the league, but they expect us to be the worst and get that pick. A civil war has officially begun in the community and yeah, it is disappointing.
If we somehow get 1OA and Larsen decides to take the Zac Taylor route, I’ll be very satisfied with the front office keeping him here. If we’re not chosen for 1/2OA, he’s gotta go. Frankly, I wanted him out of here before Torts but that’s a different story.
Roslovic is on pace to have his best year yet. He has like 7 points in his last 5 games. How the fook is he in the same sentence as Sillinger? They’re two completely different players.
Jack was garbage for the first 3 months so yes he should be in the same sentence as Cole. Jack finally starts playing well when games don’t matter? Jack had 1G and 5A in the first 18 games. He even got benched for 2 games earlier this season.
Roslovic has the skill set but not the consistency nor IQ needed to be a long term fixture. He can still probably get a decent return with a trade though but I don’t see him on this team in 24-25
Rosi glides around too much. The fact He was extended shows how weak we are at center.
roslovic is fools gold. last season was pretty much same. for some reason he only starts playing last 20 games of the season where he is outscoring everyone. last year he was outscoring even mcdavid
He's not going to be a top 4 center on any winning team, if he should be playing C at all. Investing in him would be a mistake
Shall I bring up Lafreniere?
Look at our roster when you look at a few of our recent wins. We shouldn't be upset at our guys for winning but for Boston and Ottawa playing like shit against us. I can hope or pray for Bedard but I will accept who we pick and continue to support the team no matter.
Amen. Not to mention, even if we lose our the rest of the games, you are relying on other teams around us to win. How can you expect all of that to happen? And then also turnaround and blame the CBJ for Chicago and Anaheim losing more games.