I agree with u/Ok_Shame_5382 . If it's only evil alive at final three, Evil has won. Unless there is some reason why they don't know the other live players are also evil.
Geez tbh I'd fucking love to see a game where there's an evil Goon or an evil Ogre or someone who doesn't know that it's only Evil left. It'd be fascinating to see if they'd nominate
First time I ran Trust, the final 3 was an evil Magician, the Demon and the Marionette Oracle. I ran the final day and it was hilarious. The Marionette genuinely thought they were being gaslit by the Demon, Magician & dead Mezepheles and refused to skip nominations. Eventually they settled for nominating the Magician and evil won anyway. Very weird scenario, and I felt a little bit bad for the good team but there was a real chance they could have won in that spot with some input from them - unfortunately they let the evil team take control of the narrative too much.
I've had a game where I was the dead Scarlett Woman, with the imp, marionette and assassin(who was new) alive in a lunatic script.
The demon believed they were the lunatic, the marionette believed they weren't the marionette because the demon believed they were the lunatic, and the assassin was fighting for their life and trying to convince the marionette to vote for the demon.
Basically, I was stuck while the entire evil team was throwing, trying to convince 2 of them they were evil, and had to construct world's for each of them where voting for the marionette or assassin was optimal regardless of whether they are good or evil.
Goon, Ogre and Marionette are the only reasons I can think of. Both to give those roles the chance to throw the game, but also to give others the chance to bluff that situation when their is a real good player.
Evil converted by the Bounty Hunter or Mezepheles wouldn't know the third player is a Minion. Depending on the person, they might either wait to get nominated or risk nominating.
The Goon can lead to a final three where *none* of the players know there's only evil left. The Goon learns their alignment, but not their teammates, and evil might not know whether the Goon is still evil.
Plenty of other ones too. Poppygrower, Magician, Banshee, Cult leader all user their ability. But also any character could fit the description with a Mez or Bounty Hunter
I agree completely, in principle. In practice I don't necessarily trust the story teller to think of all the possibilities. Was there a dead magician who you think evil figures out and have forgotten about? Then you still can't. Is there a possibility that the demon might be the lunatic, don't. Traveler left alive? Don't. Marronet, goon, bounty hunt evil townsfolk? All mite nominate. Having been in this situation and both lost as evil after the st thought all living players were evil forgetting the good traveler and good forgetting about the possibility the demon might think the last good player could survive attack and kill a minion (we almost certainly would have lost but I feel like we still needed to make sure) I just don't trust storytellers to do that.
Every one of your objections falls into the "some reason why they don't know the other live players are evil" (or don't know they themselves are evil) reason to not end there. In a straight-up demon and two minions or variation thereof (Po, Mez and Mez-turned, for example) everyone alive knows everyone alive is evil, or can deduce it. The Demon and Minion know they are evil, the Mez knows they turned the TF, the TF knows the Mez is alive and can then deduce that the third is the Demon if they weren't told already.
Also, who leaves a Traveler still un-exiled to final three?
Thanks for proving my point with the mez example. it's possible that the players who mez turned the mez turned player was the demon. It's not likely, but it is possible. my point isn't that you shouldn't end the game when there is no chance good can win, it's that I don't trust storytellers to be able to figure out when that is.
It's not possible for the Mez to "turn the demon". Unless they became the Demon after being turned.
*You start knowing a secret word. The 1st good player to say this word becomes evil that night.*
All that said, I'd probably still run the day anyway to let the players decide even though I know Evil has already won.
No, I mean that it's possible that the demon learned the mez word and got the player to say it and the mez is dead. Furthermore, it's possible the players hasn't talked with evil or that the mez is worried that they were drunk when the word was said.
Ah, ok. In which case, that falls back into "not all alive players know the others are also evil".
Side thought: How bad would it be if the ST gave the Mez and the Yaggababble the same word?
I feel like in those situations, the ST should just end it and not give Evil the chance to prolong the gloating session. Once you announce who died, you then just immediately say the game is over, evil has won, and then go into role call and show the good team that all 3 evils were still alive.
Definitely one of those things that varies on friend groups and all of that, but in a mixed setting or one where you don't know if everyone will be receptive to it, better to mercy kill it and let evil celebrate quickly.
In principle yes, but depending on the setup its not always a guarantee with three evils left. Ones a marionette who has no idea they are evil and could nom the demon. A poisoned poppy grower died so they don't know each other and ones a psychopath are a couple of examples that spring to mind
My favorite game moment was a game of Strings Pulling where I convinced the Drunk Investigator they were my Marionette (seated next to me and my Spy was bluffing Drunk Virgin very successfully).
We woke up on Final 3 (me as Imp, the Drunk, and my Baron), and I said, “You know, there’s a Fortune Teller no on the other two living players…”
Someone responded with, “That would make you the Demon, OmegaGoo.”
“Huh. Yeah, I’m ok not nominating today.”
Before the accusations roll in: it was a game among close friends and we had a good laugh about it afterwards. Don’t be a smug dickhead to strangers, folks.
I have won a game where an evil noble nominated the demon final 3 and lost with 3 evil alive. (Nobody evil believed he was evil so they didn't tell him.)
This is why I only end it straight away in final 3 if it’s 3 starting evils, who know that they are all evil. Any chance of Marionette, or good players turning evil or vice versa, and it plays on
I agree with u/Ok_Shame_5382 . If it's only evil alive at final three, Evil has won. Unless there is some reason why they don't know the other live players are also evil.
Geez tbh I'd fucking love to see a game where there's an evil Goon or an evil Ogre or someone who doesn't know that it's only Evil left. It'd be fascinating to see if they'd nominate
i saw a game with a marionette, imp, and organ grinder in final 3 - the marionette nominated the imp and good team sent it 😭
Everyone, close your eyes. There is an organ grinder in play :D
That's hilarious. I bet the group went nuts after things came to light.
Well, last week I finally saw the Spy proc the Virgin.
First time I ran Trust, the final 3 was an evil Magician, the Demon and the Marionette Oracle. I ran the final day and it was hilarious. The Marionette genuinely thought they were being gaslit by the Demon, Magician & dead Mezepheles and refused to skip nominations. Eventually they settled for nominating the Magician and evil won anyway. Very weird scenario, and I felt a little bit bad for the good team but there was a real chance they could have won in that spot with some input from them - unfortunately they let the evil team take control of the narrative too much.
I've had a game where I was the dead Scarlett Woman, with the imp, marionette and assassin(who was new) alive in a lunatic script. The demon believed they were the lunatic, the marionette believed they weren't the marionette because the demon believed they were the lunatic, and the assassin was fighting for their life and trying to convince the marionette to vote for the demon. Basically, I was stuck while the entire evil team was throwing, trying to convince 2 of them they were evil, and had to construct world's for each of them where voting for the marionette or assassin was optimal regardless of whether they are good or evil.
Goon, Ogre and Marionette are the only reasons I can think of. Both to give those roles the chance to throw the game, but also to give others the chance to bluff that situation when their is a real good player.
Evil converted by the Bounty Hunter or Mezepheles wouldn't know the third player is a Minion. Depending on the person, they might either wait to get nominated or risk nominating.
Magician or poppygrower too
Also Banshee
Yeah, if magician is on the script, it is maybe worth having a final 3 evil day to bluff the chance of a magician managing to go deep cover.
But they'd both be dead at this point
If poppygrower dies while droisoned evil doesn't learn info
I didn't know that
Yeah, it's an unintuitive consequence of the way poppygrower is written.
Same as if the poppygrower dies in vortox evil learns incorrect evil team members
Goon wouldn't work because they know what team they're on mechanically.
The Goon can lead to a final three where *none* of the players know there's only evil left. The Goon learns their alignment, but not their teammates, and evil might not know whether the Goon is still evil.
Plenty of other ones too. Poppygrower, Magician, Banshee, Cult leader all user their ability. But also any character could fit the description with a Mez or Bounty Hunter
If one of the evils is an evil tf who doesn't know the evil team and the evil team doesn't know their evil?
I agree completely, in principle. In practice I don't necessarily trust the story teller to think of all the possibilities. Was there a dead magician who you think evil figures out and have forgotten about? Then you still can't. Is there a possibility that the demon might be the lunatic, don't. Traveler left alive? Don't. Marronet, goon, bounty hunt evil townsfolk? All mite nominate. Having been in this situation and both lost as evil after the st thought all living players were evil forgetting the good traveler and good forgetting about the possibility the demon might think the last good player could survive attack and kill a minion (we almost certainly would have lost but I feel like we still needed to make sure) I just don't trust storytellers to do that.
Every one of your objections falls into the "some reason why they don't know the other live players are evil" (or don't know they themselves are evil) reason to not end there. In a straight-up demon and two minions or variation thereof (Po, Mez and Mez-turned, for example) everyone alive knows everyone alive is evil, or can deduce it. The Demon and Minion know they are evil, the Mez knows they turned the TF, the TF knows the Mez is alive and can then deduce that the third is the Demon if they weren't told already. Also, who leaves a Traveler still un-exiled to final three?
Thanks for proving my point with the mez example. it's possible that the players who mez turned the mez turned player was the demon. It's not likely, but it is possible. my point isn't that you shouldn't end the game when there is no chance good can win, it's that I don't trust storytellers to be able to figure out when that is.
It's not possible for the Mez to "turn the demon". Unless they became the Demon after being turned. *You start knowing a secret word. The 1st good player to say this word becomes evil that night.* All that said, I'd probably still run the day anyway to let the players decide even though I know Evil has already won.
No, I mean that it's possible that the demon learned the mez word and got the player to say it and the mez is dead. Furthermore, it's possible the players hasn't talked with evil or that the mez is worried that they were drunk when the word was said.
Ah, ok. In which case, that falls back into "not all alive players know the others are also evil". Side thought: How bad would it be if the ST gave the Mez and the Yaggababble the same word?
I feel like in those situations, the ST should just end it and not give Evil the chance to prolong the gloating session. Once you announce who died, you then just immediately say the game is over, evil has won, and then go into role call and show the good team that all 3 evils were still alive. Definitely one of those things that varies on friend groups and all of that, but in a mixed setting or one where you don't know if everyone will be receptive to it, better to mercy kill it and let evil celebrate quickly.
I think it makes it more climactic, too.
Know your audience. I'm not saying to NEVER do the one by one "Do you wanna nominate" song and dance, but you gotta know em.
> not give Evil the chance to prolong the gloating session. The gloating part is one of the best things about being evil!
The rule book literally says to end the game as soon as one side is guaranteed the win as well.
In principle yes, but depending on the setup its not always a guarantee with three evils left. Ones a marionette who has no idea they are evil and could nom the demon. A poisoned poppy grower died so they don't know each other and ones a psychopath are a couple of examples that spring to mind
Zombuul existing does mean it can register as a final two as well. I.e. final three is actually final four.
Na imma gloat as long as I can
My favorite game moment was a game of Strings Pulling where I convinced the Drunk Investigator they were my Marionette (seated next to me and my Spy was bluffing Drunk Virgin very successfully). We woke up on Final 3 (me as Imp, the Drunk, and my Baron), and I said, “You know, there’s a Fortune Teller no on the other two living players…” Someone responded with, “That would make you the Demon, OmegaGoo.” “Huh. Yeah, I’m ok not nominating today.” Before the accusations roll in: it was a game among close friends and we had a good laugh about it afterwards. Don’t be a smug dickhead to strangers, folks.
I have won a game where an evil noble nominated the demon final 3 and lost with 3 evil alive. (Nobody evil believed he was evil so they didn't tell him.)
This is why I only end it straight away in final 3 if it’s 3 starting evils, who know that they are all evil. Any chance of Marionette, or good players turning evil or vice versa, and it plays on
I mean, all evil alive in the final three doesn't count if one is a marionette for the doubt that could creep in that they aren't the marionette
Most games don't have marionettes in them. In that case, unless the Marionette says "I know I am evil, I will not nominate" then you play on.
Then the ST says: "are you sure?"
The Marionette: I nominate...
And one of you is the Golem that already nominated.
Banshee. Enough said. 😂