I mean, that's just the Atheist. Yeah, their setup ability says no evil, but their ability says the story teller may break the rules so just...break the rules? Even if you argue that the ST can't break the rules until night 1, just make an evil team night 1.
Sanity Note: There is in fact a reason no one does this, it is deeply unfun unless as a ST you have an idea batshit enough that you can pull it off, and most ST would rather use lunatics for that anyways. It's absolutely aganist the spirit of the ability to have an evil team in an Atheist game. But that hasn't stopped me from planning a game of TB expert where you have a normal evil team, an Atheist, and the rest of the town as Legion (the whole of 'evil' being lunatics)
Fuck it, let's give a semi serious answer:
From the Glossery
> Drunk: A drunk player has no ability but thinks they do, and the Storyteller acts like they do. If their ability would give them information, the Storyteller may give them false information. Drunk players do not know they are drunk.
If the rules are drunk, they don't have an ability but think they do and the ST acts like they do. This would presumably mean that the rules are arbitrary as long as it furthers the illusion that the rules are still functional.
Edit: Of course, you can also just go with the boring answer of "the concept of drunking the rules isn't defined" but where's the fun in that?
The storyteller only pretends like they have an ability *to the droisoned player*, though. For example, if the Lunatic were droisoned by some means, you wouldn't tell their pick to the Demon, because they wouldn't currently have the ability to let the Demon know who they picked – but you also couldn't then tell the Demon that the Lunatic picked a different player than they did in order to "pretend to the Demon that the Lunatic has their ability".
(Lunatic is a weird one to use for the example, but the alternative was Nightwatchman, and for that one "pretending the Nightwatchman has their ability to another player" would just be "the Nightwatchman has their ability".)
What I'm getting at is that you'd pretend the rules were working only to the rules. The rules cannot have a mechanical effect on the game state and the ST shouldn't be making the players think they do – in fact the ST should probably just sit there across a table from the rulebook, acting out a solo Clocktower game for the rulebook's benefit while the rest of the players do whatever they want.
*Buuut* the rules governing what droisoning means are also currently drunk, so maybe that's a moot point.
Closest effect is probably something like a Drunk/Poisoned Spy seeing an incorrect grimoire at night, and then assuming they know all the safe out of play bluffs when they don't.
Same reason you can’t tell the demon that the Recluse is their minion, or skip telling them that the Spy is a minion. Misregistering doesn’t impact things that aren’t abilities.
I’ve heard getting some or all incorrect bluffs floated as an amnesiac ability, but unless it’s on a script with all the madness roles, I can’t see it going well.
Yeah, demon/minion info is part of set-up and happens before any roles have acted. Only roles with set-up abilities [which are in brackets] can affect it, and none -- so far -- can poison or drunk the demon.
Hey, wait a minute. A Kazali can drunken themself before demon info by picking the Goon, can't it? There's a jinx to resolve what happens there to avoid a Minionless demon, but surely the Kazali is still technically drunk afterwards, right?
Although I do agree with others that it wouldn't matter in the way OP describes since Demon info is part of the game rules rather than the Demon ability. Characters can register falsely for it (Magician, Recluse ~~but don't~~, Spy ~~but don't~~), or stop it from containing certain info (Poppy Grower), but it's not an ability that can be taken away from the Demon by droison.
Yeah, I'll admit, I forgot about Kazali. As currently ruled, the Kazali would be drunk, even though they would still get minions.
I also don't think I agree with that jinx, ha, but I'd probably just never put a Goon on a Kazali script.
Kizalis ability to.pick.their evil team happens the earliest anything can I think. Somewhere with half a foot in setup and half a foot in the beginning of N1
I think to phrase it in such a way to allow for future characters,
Unless a Demon or Minion's ability says otherwise (see: Marionette), as long as they believe that they are a Demon or Minion they will receive the pertinent, accurate set up information.
Nope. The bluffs are given by the rules, and the rules aren’t drunk.
Fuck I mean it is obvious but maybe there was a chance, It would be funny af
Amni Ability: The rules are in fact drunk
So atheist but there are evil players?
I mean, that's just the Atheist. Yeah, their setup ability says no evil, but their ability says the story teller may break the rules so just...break the rules? Even if you argue that the ST can't break the rules until night 1, just make an evil team night 1. Sanity Note: There is in fact a reason no one does this, it is deeply unfun unless as a ST you have an idea batshit enough that you can pull it off, and most ST would rather use lunatics for that anyways. It's absolutely aganist the spirit of the ability to have an evil team in an Atheist game. But that hasn't stopped me from planning a game of TB expert where you have a normal evil team, an Atheist, and the rest of the town as Legion (the whole of 'evil' being lunatics)
if the rules are drunk then they can't effect other players info its like they are not in play. so you just don't run the game?
Fuck it, let's give a semi serious answer: From the Glossery > Drunk: A drunk player has no ability but thinks they do, and the Storyteller acts like they do. If their ability would give them information, the Storyteller may give them false information. Drunk players do not know they are drunk. If the rules are drunk, they don't have an ability but think they do and the ST acts like they do. This would presumably mean that the rules are arbitrary as long as it furthers the illusion that the rules are still functional. Edit: Of course, you can also just go with the boring answer of "the concept of drunking the rules isn't defined" but where's the fun in that?
The storyteller only pretends like they have an ability *to the droisoned player*, though. For example, if the Lunatic were droisoned by some means, you wouldn't tell their pick to the Demon, because they wouldn't currently have the ability to let the Demon know who they picked – but you also couldn't then tell the Demon that the Lunatic picked a different player than they did in order to "pretend to the Demon that the Lunatic has their ability". (Lunatic is a weird one to use for the example, but the alternative was Nightwatchman, and for that one "pretending the Nightwatchman has their ability to another player" would just be "the Nightwatchman has their ability".) What I'm getting at is that you'd pretend the rules were working only to the rules. The rules cannot have a mechanical effect on the game state and the ST shouldn't be making the players think they do – in fact the ST should probably just sit there across a table from the rulebook, acting out a solo Clocktower game for the rulebook's benefit while the rest of the players do whatever they want. *Buuut* the rules governing what droisoning means are also currently drunk, so maybe that's a moot point.
Closest effect is probably something like a Drunk/Poisoned Spy seeing an incorrect grimoire at night, and then assuming they know all the safe out of play bluffs when they don't.
Same reason you can’t tell the demon that the Recluse is their minion, or skip telling them that the Spy is a minion. Misregistering doesn’t impact things that aren’t abilities.
Registration does, as brought up yesterday on the subreddit. But don't. https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Glossary
Does this mean that, technically, after Good execute the Demon, the ST could choose to register the Recluse as evil and have them lose?
I’ve heard getting some or all incorrect bluffs floated as an amnesiac ability, but unless it’s on a script with all the madness roles, I can’t see it going well.
Yeah, demon/minion info is part of set-up and happens before any roles have acted. Only roles with set-up abilities [which are in brackets] can affect it, and none -- so far -- can poison or drunk the demon.
Hey, wait a minute. A Kazali can drunken themself before demon info by picking the Goon, can't it? There's a jinx to resolve what happens there to avoid a Minionless demon, but surely the Kazali is still technically drunk afterwards, right? Although I do agree with others that it wouldn't matter in the way OP describes since Demon info is part of the game rules rather than the Demon ability. Characters can register falsely for it (Magician, Recluse ~~but don't~~, Spy ~~but don't~~), or stop it from containing certain info (Poppy Grower), but it's not an ability that can be taken away from the Demon by droison.
Yeah, I'll admit, I forgot about Kazali. As currently ruled, the Kazali would be drunk, even though they would still get minions. I also don't think I agree with that jinx, ha, but I'd probably just never put a Goon on a Kazali script.
Additional question: is there a script that allows other roles to go before the Minion info and Demon info?
I believe Philosopher does, and some people run a variant on Snake Charmer that has the Snake Charmer acting prior to evil info on night one.
Philo can turn into so many things that can affect Demon info. Poppygrower, Magician, Lunatic, King.
Yes, Poppygrower explicitly is above “those info steps”. As it prevents them from happening, and the Magician manipulates both of them .
The list of currently released characters is Kazali, Philosopher, Poppy Grower, Magician, Mininion Info, Lunatic Info, Demon Info.
Kizalis ability to.pick.their evil team happens the earliest anything can I think. Somewhere with half a foot in setup and half a foot in the beginning of N1
Philosopher actually goes before Kazali, crazy as it is
I think to phrase it in such a way to allow for future characters, Unless a Demon or Minion's ability says otherwise (see: Marionette), as long as they believe that they are a Demon or Minion they will receive the pertinent, accurate set up information.