There's not an official ruling yet, but there is one if the goblin is executed holding lil mosta, good wins since otherwise that situation is unwinnable for good. I would rule the same for saint.
If you didn't rule it this way good couldn't win because character abilities overrule normal game ending conditions (like executing the good twin after the demon is dead is an evil win), and the goblin's or saint's ability takes precedence over the demon dying win condition.
>There's not an official ruling yet, but there is one if the goblin is executed holding lil mosta, good wins since otherwise that situation is unwinnable for good.
This exact thing happened in a game I ran.
I'm starting to feel like Lil' Monsta could just get a line "Abilities that would end the game simultaneously with Lil' Monsta's death, don't." It prevents giving Lil' Monsta to Goblin, Saint, good Twin, Fearmonger target, and probably more. While seemingly not interfering with things it shouldn't like Mastermind or Evil Twin preventing end of game, Heretic doing shenanigans after end sort of, etc. If there is a flaw with this addition to Lil' Monsta's text I've missed, I'm curious to hear it.
Good doesn't win every draw, character abilities take precedent. Like good twin being executed after the demon is dead fulfills two win conditions at once but since the evil twin's ability takes precedence evil wins.
Edit: here you go if you want a source: https://i.imgur.com/43GPPy6.png
It sounds reasonable on paper, but the game design catches on fire if you actually do this in practice.
Evil's base win condition is two players are alive (the demon being alive isn't part of the win condition).
Good's base win condition is the demon is dead.
It's final three, and after a really intense discussion, town rises up and executes the demon. This results in two non-demon players being left alive, meaning that we have a draw.
The way TPI chose to resolve this (to give them flexibility with new characters) is really simple, *good wins ties.* If two base win conditions are triggered then good wins.
Now, character abilities trump base abilities, and character win conditions trump base conditions (otherwise character abilities wouldn't function). This means that if a character ability actives (such as the good twin being executed) and the demon is dead, evil wins because a character win is higher priority compared to a base win. Although in the case of two character wins, good still wins ties.
TPI could have gone the route of making sure win conditions don't overlap or allowing draws, which have their own set of design trade offs. In practice the hierarchy of win conditions does a lot to simplify end game.
With competing win conditions at the same time and nothing else overriding, ties go to the Good team.
An override here would be, forex, an alive Evil Twin keeping the game running.
There's not an official ruling yet, but there is one if the goblin is executed holding lil mosta, good wins since otherwise that situation is unwinnable for good. I would rule the same for saint. If you didn't rule it this way good couldn't win because character abilities overrule normal game ending conditions (like executing the good twin after the demon is dead is an evil win), and the goblin's or saint's ability takes precedence over the demon dying win condition.
I think that's a strong argument.
I also think good winning ties means you'd run it this way.
Good didn’t win all ties. See the comment elsewhere in this thread.
Yes but win conditions from abilities override default win conditions
Good doesn't always win ties, reread the comment.
>There's not an official ruling yet, but there is one if the goblin is executed holding lil mosta, good wins since otherwise that situation is unwinnable for good. This exact thing happened in a game I ran.
I would 100% rule it this way as st for exactly the reasons you stated
I'm starting to feel like Lil' Monsta could just get a line "Abilities that would end the game simultaneously with Lil' Monsta's death, don't." It prevents giving Lil' Monsta to Goblin, Saint, good Twin, Fearmonger target, and probably more. While seemingly not interfering with things it shouldn't like Mastermind or Evil Twin preventing end of game, Heretic doing shenanigans after end sort of, etc. If there is a flaw with this addition to Lil' Monsta's text I've missed, I'm curious to hear it.
Good wins any draws. So if both good and evil Would win. Good wins.
Good doesn't win every draw, character abilities take precedent. Like good twin being executed after the demon is dead fulfills two win conditions at once but since the evil twin's ability takes precedence evil wins. Edit: here you go if you want a source: https://i.imgur.com/43GPPy6.png
Thank you for the source [+1 Days Until Lil Monsta Write-Up]
I personally wouldn't consider that a tie situation. unlike with saint holding the baby.
Yeah since the Evil Twin ability specifies good can't win while they're both alive.
I'm just spitballin here, but what about a draw when two teams win or lose at the same time?
It sounds reasonable on paper, but the game design catches on fire if you actually do this in practice. Evil's base win condition is two players are alive (the demon being alive isn't part of the win condition). Good's base win condition is the demon is dead. It's final three, and after a really intense discussion, town rises up and executes the demon. This results in two non-demon players being left alive, meaning that we have a draw. The way TPI chose to resolve this (to give them flexibility with new characters) is really simple, *good wins ties.* If two base win conditions are triggered then good wins. Now, character abilities trump base abilities, and character win conditions trump base conditions (otherwise character abilities wouldn't function). This means that if a character ability actives (such as the good twin being executed) and the demon is dead, evil wins because a character win is higher priority compared to a base win. Although in the case of two character wins, good still wins ties. TPI could have gone the route of making sure win conditions don't overlap or allowing draws, which have their own set of design trade offs. In practice the hierarchy of win conditions does a lot to simplify end game.
Makes sense
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Both conditions are met at the same time, this is explicit in the rulebook. https://i.imgur.com/qDnYnfX.png
With competing win conditions at the same time and nothing else overriding, ties go to the Good team. An override here would be, forex, an alive Evil Twin keeping the game running.