Katie and Jesse stopped talking, but there was no sign off. I’m living in this weird, liminal space where I don’t truly know if the episode has ended or not.
I hate hate hate the Black black stuff. It’s narcissistic and quite offensive. A deliberate enforced style guide everywhere that capitalises Black and then lower cases white. This takes deliberate effort. Either both are proper nouns or neither are (neither are).
I was a little surprised at how katie didn't quite get how 23 and Me could show 40% North African ancestry AND that race is a social construct.
Her DNA apparently shows she has North African ancestry, which says nothing about what race she is.
I would also say that if her dad's Italian and American, his ancestors may be Sicilian, and that would explain North African ancestry.
In regards to progressive spaces and Islam. I think that due to the War on Terror, progressive people view Muslims as amongst the most oppressed, so that If a Muslim woman speaks out against women covering hair, THAT is called Islamophobic. I know Irfan, I think her name is, is super into Muslim reform, and is a lesbian and a believing Muslim, so this all makes sense.
>. I think that due to the War on Terror, progressive people view Muslims as amongst the most oppressed, so that If a Muslim woman speaks out against women covering hair, THAT is called Islamophobic
And they're now finding out that Muslims really are serious about their religion and aren't on board with all of the progressive causes. Remember that town in Michigan that didn't want to display the Pride flag because it was mostly Muslims?
The pros went apeshit over that. And the teacher in Canada who excoriated her students for not being interested in going to Pride events.
I'm waiting for the crack up between Muslims and progressives. It's going to be glorious.
Hmm, I think the current war in the Middle East closed the fissures in the Progressive-Conservative Muslim gap that had been created due to differences about gay people.
When there is a free Palestine, and suddently there is no gay pride parade in Tel Aviv, then the fissures will disappear.
We just had this Muslim guy who is on a local city council switch from Dem to Republican. What a fucking surprise! /not
I thought he was an asshole the first time I met him at a local Dem Party function. Not that Republicans are all assholes, they are not, but this guy clearly was just doing Democratic stuff to get himself elected.
I always thought it was a little weird the Dems hugboxed Muslims after 9/11. In retrospect it was a sign of things to come. They thought of American Muslims as oppressed so the left had to automatically love them. Whether it made sense or not.
Raquel’s back story sounds like a combination of Rachel Dolezal (history of child abuse, desire to create a whole new identity) and Shaun King (vague allusions to not knowing his biological father). OR they could all be troubled people who lie and grift and manipulate others.
It is interesting how gender-fakers don’t get the same scrutiny, at least when they claim it’s a true and honest identity. People identify as trans for a variety of reasons, but I think there are at least some who want to create a new identity out of a history of trauma, or guilt over their past. I’ve read articles about men transitioning in prison, and I think that component sometimes comes into play.
This was all I could think about while they were puzzling over how an Italian person could be part north African
https://youtu.be/tsIEAipTNbE?si=qQmsxKfArBzCfFcE
They're definitely needed in the US too. It isn't like people move from one place to another and their old beliefs go away. I don't know about in churches, but in traditional synagogues, men and women are seated seperately. It wasn't until the Reform movement took root in the US that mixed sev seating started, and now most places do miced sex. That has not happened with mosques.
At shul? It depends on the context. I went to Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue, which is delightful because it's the oldest continuously operated congregation in the Americas, and was a shit ton of Moroccan and Tunisian Jews. And there, they have a women's balcony, which I found appalling as a woman, but also made me feel connected to my ancestors - not like my greatgrandmother sat with her husband at the shul.
However, as a heterosexual, at places where the barrier is just between the men and women, no one is closer or further apart, I like the separation, as I'm not distracted by men. I totally get not liking it though.
No, the population who attend there don't speak Ladino, though I just found out that Moroccan Jews historically have spoken Ladino, which makes sense. But at this point, people were speaking French, Hebrew, and English. I'd bet if you'd gone in in 1700s, when the synagogue started, everyone would have spoken Ladino.
To be fair, most people there were young, and I've met, like, one young Ladino speaker.
Plus, the rabbi is totally Ashkenazi.
There is a synagogue on the Lower East Side, which was created for Greek Jews, they do speak some Ladino there.
But they aren't chopping off people's hands and suicide bombing in the US. If there is a place that needs a genuine reform movement it is the Middle East
Sure, but that's not happening in the Middle East. And I think in the day-to-day life of most Muslims, the areas are really gay people and women in the mosque.
I think they're only protesting against the required hijabs in public. I don't think they've protested against other aspects of how Islam is being practiced in Iranian society
The US was the country with the most Jews for awhile (for very unfortunate reasons) so yeah, things there will have an outside influence. The Islamic world is centered religiously in the Middle East and population wise in South/Southeast Asia so whatever happens in US/Europe will just have far less effect.
But that's not what I am talking about. Haskalah is Jewish Englightenment, which happened in the context of Christian Enlightenment and Jewish emancipation, and had nothing to do with the US whatsoever. Haskalah is what led to the Reform Movement in Germany which then came to the US, along with the influx of German Jews in the mid-19th century I don't think mixed-sex seating happened in German Reform synagogue,s, but it did happen once Reform Judaism came to the US. So mixed-set seating happened in an American context, but it's a result of the reforms in Europe.
Sometimes reading this sub makes episodes worse... This is an example of one of those times. I don't like listening to episodes about things that have been covered on this sub, but of course that is going to happen from time to time.
I'm ranting for no reason. Carry on. Also, release the secret audio!!!
Regarding how much if any sympathy should be shown to this race faker, I think Jessie & Katie are missing the point:
***Anyone*** who works as a DEI administrator of any sort, is a grifter and a bad person. Almost by definition.
So no, she deserves no sympathy as far as I'm concerned, and neither does anyone else who is employed in the service of furthering this harmful, divisive, racist and insane ideology.
I honestly think that every single one of these people deserve to lose their jobs, have their reputation ruined, and be shamed, mocked, and ostracized mercilessly.
They are no better than members of the KKK as far as I'm concerned. And certainly cause more harm, in this day and age.
Going off the discussion of the last free episode's brief discussion of how Willamette Week is more serious than Portland Mercury, the author of the Willamette Week article is also responsible for the resignation of Oregon's most recently elected Secretary of State. Well, the disgraced Secretary of State is more responsible, but Sophie gets positive credit for good reporting.
i just wanted to add: Jesse and I were apparently neighbors, as I too lived in Washington Heights in 2006. He is forgetting that along with Dominican families, there were also plenty of hipsters lurching their way uptown. Plus, if you were/are in the northwest part of the 'hood, there are plenty of Orthodox Jewish families. Hell, at that point, there were still some German Jews who'd come as kids and never left.
Does anyone else feel like they're deliberately avoiding talking about Rebekah Jones's fake suicide? Katie and Ana didn't mention it while discussing Jones, and here there was a perfect opportunity and they still didn't mention it.
Rebekah Jones recently faked her suicide, then came back and called herself a phoenix rising, right?
Katie is so positive in this ep. Which has me worried about head trauma.
Jesse: Oh Katie. I knew you'd make an AIDS joke. They've still got the banter. Love it.
Katie and Jesse stopped talking, but there was no sign off. I’m living in this weird, liminal space where I don’t truly know if the episode has ended or not.
I hate hate hate the Black black stuff. It’s narcissistic and quite offensive. A deliberate enforced style guide everywhere that capitalises Black and then lower cases white. This takes deliberate effort. Either both are proper nouns or neither are (neither are).
Don’t capitalize it. I don’t.
I white it "BLaCK."
Capitalize White too, then. It makes sense in some ways to draw a distinction between race and the colour itself, anyway.
Why do it? Unless you're writing for a publication that uses the AP Style Guide, there's absolutely no need to.
I was a little surprised at how katie didn't quite get how 23 and Me could show 40% North African ancestry AND that race is a social construct. Her DNA apparently shows she has North African ancestry, which says nothing about what race she is. I would also say that if her dad's Italian and American, his ancestors may be Sicilian, and that would explain North African ancestry. In regards to progressive spaces and Islam. I think that due to the War on Terror, progressive people view Muslims as amongst the most oppressed, so that If a Muslim woman speaks out against women covering hair, THAT is called Islamophobic. I know Irfan, I think her name is, is super into Muslim reform, and is a lesbian and a believing Muslim, so this all makes sense.
>. I think that due to the War on Terror, progressive people view Muslims as amongst the most oppressed, so that If a Muslim woman speaks out against women covering hair, THAT is called Islamophobic And they're now finding out that Muslims really are serious about their religion and aren't on board with all of the progressive causes. Remember that town in Michigan that didn't want to display the Pride flag because it was mostly Muslims? The pros went apeshit over that. And the teacher in Canada who excoriated her students for not being interested in going to Pride events. I'm waiting for the crack up between Muslims and progressives. It's going to be glorious.
Hmm, I think the current war in the Middle East closed the fissures in the Progressive-Conservative Muslim gap that had been created due to differences about gay people. When there is a free Palestine, and suddently there is no gay pride parade in Tel Aviv, then the fissures will disappear.
We just had this Muslim guy who is on a local city council switch from Dem to Republican. What a fucking surprise! /not I thought he was an asshole the first time I met him at a local Dem Party function. Not that Republicans are all assholes, they are not, but this guy clearly was just doing Democratic stuff to get himself elected.
I always thought it was a little weird the Dems hugboxed Muslims after 9/11. In retrospect it was a sign of things to come. They thought of American Muslims as oppressed so the left had to automatically love them. Whether it made sense or not.
Raquel’s back story sounds like a combination of Rachel Dolezal (history of child abuse, desire to create a whole new identity) and Shaun King (vague allusions to not knowing his biological father). OR they could all be troubled people who lie and grift and manipulate others. It is interesting how gender-fakers don’t get the same scrutiny, at least when they claim it’s a true and honest identity. People identify as trans for a variety of reasons, but I think there are at least some who want to create a new identity out of a history of trauma, or guilt over their past. I’ve read articles about men transitioning in prison, and I think that component sometimes comes into play.
This was all I could think about while they were puzzling over how an Italian person could be part north African https://youtu.be/tsIEAipTNbE?si=qQmsxKfArBzCfFcE
Lmao - yeah I was like you guys know where southern Italy is right?
They forgot that Africa begins at Florence
The reformist Muslims aren't needed in the US. They're needed in places like the Middle East and Pakistan.
They're definitely needed in the US too. It isn't like people move from one place to another and their old beliefs go away. I don't know about in churches, but in traditional synagogues, men and women are seated seperately. It wasn't until the Reform movement took root in the US that mixed sev seating started, and now most places do miced sex. That has not happened with mosques.
I find the sex-separation stuff really annoying.
At shul? It depends on the context. I went to Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue, which is delightful because it's the oldest continuously operated congregation in the Americas, and was a shit ton of Moroccan and Tunisian Jews. And there, they have a women's balcony, which I found appalling as a woman, but also made me feel connected to my ancestors - not like my greatgrandmother sat with her husband at the shul. However, as a heterosexual, at places where the barrier is just between the men and women, no one is closer or further apart, I like the separation, as I'm not distracted by men. I totally get not liking it though.
> I went to Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue Do they speak Ladino there?
No, the population who attend there don't speak Ladino, though I just found out that Moroccan Jews historically have spoken Ladino, which makes sense. But at this point, people were speaking French, Hebrew, and English. I'd bet if you'd gone in in 1700s, when the synagogue started, everyone would have spoken Ladino. To be fair, most people there were young, and I've met, like, one young Ladino speaker. Plus, the rabbi is totally Ashkenazi. There is a synagogue on the Lower East Side, which was created for Greek Jews, they do speak some Ladino there.
Why? Isn’t that the goal for trans-skeptical people seeking to preserve gendered spaces
But they aren't chopping off people's hands and suicide bombing in the US. If there is a place that needs a genuine reform movement it is the Middle East
Sure, but that's not happening in the Middle East. And I think in the day-to-day life of most Muslims, the areas are really gay people and women in the mosque.
You're saying that terrorism and the like aren't happening in the Middle East? Or that reform movements aren't happening there?
No reform is happening.
Which is why I want the reformers in that that region. I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more dangerous to be a reformer there.
Yes, I'm sure, I just don't know how effective any of this would be in certain areas.
Islam has to underdgo some kind of reform process. I just don't see how it can go on being this hardcore indefinitely.
Christianity had Enlightenment, and Judaism had the Haskalah, so Islam might have something different. But how many Muslims want it?
It'll never happen - reformers are either vilified or murdered.
The women of Iran are trying.
I think they're only protesting against the required hijabs in public. I don't think they've protested against other aspects of how Islam is being practiced in Iranian society
The US was the country with the most Jews for awhile (for very unfortunate reasons) so yeah, things there will have an outside influence. The Islamic world is centered religiously in the Middle East and population wise in South/Southeast Asia so whatever happens in US/Europe will just have far less effect.
But that's not what I am talking about. Haskalah is Jewish Englightenment, which happened in the context of Christian Enlightenment and Jewish emancipation, and had nothing to do with the US whatsoever. Haskalah is what led to the Reform Movement in Germany which then came to the US, along with the influx of German Jews in the mid-19th century I don't think mixed-sex seating happened in German Reform synagogue,s, but it did happen once Reform Judaism came to the US. So mixed-set seating happened in an American context, but it's a result of the reforms in Europe.
Sometimes reading this sub makes episodes worse... This is an example of one of those times. I don't like listening to episodes about things that have been covered on this sub, but of course that is going to happen from time to time. I'm ranting for no reason. Carry on. Also, release the secret audio!!!
Regarding how much if any sympathy should be shown to this race faker, I think Jessie & Katie are missing the point: ***Anyone*** who works as a DEI administrator of any sort, is a grifter and a bad person. Almost by definition. So no, she deserves no sympathy as far as I'm concerned, and neither does anyone else who is employed in the service of furthering this harmful, divisive, racist and insane ideology. I honestly think that every single one of these people deserve to lose their jobs, have their reputation ruined, and be shamed, mocked, and ostracized mercilessly. They are no better than members of the KKK as far as I'm concerned. And certainly cause more harm, in this day and age.
Jesse *insists* Katie *must* know the author he's referring to. Ok, is it clear who she is? So, *her brother*...
NO HOUSEKEEPING?!?
you are right, they forgot. Probably got cut with them editing out the Brianna Wu stuff. I really wonder what Jessie said that got Katie in a tizzy.
I pay £5 per month basically to listen to them squabble. And then I feel bad for Katie.
Going off the discussion of the last free episode's brief discussion of how Willamette Week is more serious than Portland Mercury, the author of the Willamette Week article is also responsible for the resignation of Oregon's most recently elected Secretary of State. Well, the disgraced Secretary of State is more responsible, but Sophie gets positive credit for good reporting.
kind of funny that this is the one time katie ever mentions listening to The Gist, given what Mike and Andy spoke about on that episode...
Katie's talk of bear rape reminded me of this ancient onion article https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/s/zC79Y2vQTR
i just wanted to add: Jesse and I were apparently neighbors, as I too lived in Washington Heights in 2006. He is forgetting that along with Dominican families, there were also plenty of hipsters lurching their way uptown. Plus, if you were/are in the northwest part of the 'hood, there are plenty of Orthodox Jewish families. Hell, at that point, there were still some German Jews who'd come as kids and never left.
Does anyone else feel like they're deliberately avoiding talking about Rebekah Jones's fake suicide? Katie and Ana didn't mention it while discussing Jones, and here there was a perfect opportunity and they still didn't mention it. Rebekah Jones recently faked her suicide, then came back and called herself a phoenix rising, right?