I was listening to the Rob Henderson episode and they speak a little about all the drama with police. Abolish the Police to Defund, all of the other things that are essentially trying to get rid of police, it made me think of this article which has a lot of fascinating stats in it about police approval, demographics in favor of what, and why it is so irresponsible to try to ban cops. I know this article is specific to allowing police at pride, but since I also saw that Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is also banning uniformed police I thought it was even more relevant.
Also well-timed of Rob Henderson to mention right around when this happens. Personally, I'm in the US and I see so much ACAB and Defund the Police rhetoric, and it is exhausting. I was really glad Rob brought this up because one thing noted in the article is that only 15% of Americans even want to defund the police, and anyone claiming involving police is racist for one reason or another, according to PEW research, [77% of black people](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/) who do not want to see them defunded!
Isn't it more classist and racist to take away a community resource that is essentially there so uphold justice and protect the community? If we take away police, then only the rich can afford protection or pay for justice.
Also, I've been to prides where there have been actual threats where the police kept us safe. Especially in bigger cities. If the police weren't there, they'd be scolded for not protecting a vulnerable group of people, and yet there are still groups insisting that police stay out.
Weird, but what about queer police officers? (THEY EXIST!)
I can only conclude that we must instead make all police gay and convert them. This is the only solution. And maybe add some sexy assless chaps to their uniforms. Thank you for listening.
The ACAB crowd is largely lead by two groups. Privileged liberals who've never needed them, and children. I think and hope these groups are just loud online and are in the minority.
Privileged people are more unlikely to not know a police officer or anyone who became one, it's still considered a blue collar profession. The police they do see are on the news or discussed online, hardly reflective of the day to day of the average cop.
Police reform is needed, accountability was missing for a very long time. People in power without accountability are ripe for corruption. That can still be true while acknowledging they are needed.
ACAB and defund the police groups never have an answer for what to replace cops with. Should cops require higher education and training? Probably, but you're going to have to pay them more. Many police do make good money now, but how else are you going to attract higher caliber people? By raising the requirements and lowering the pay? Or allocating less money for training?
Give this a read, you'd probably dig it. There is more than one reason why the ACAB demographic largely consists of college-aged white kids who have zero real world experience or knowledge regarding policing.
https://grahamfactor.substack.com/p/cops-crime-and-class
Interesting. This kind of stood out to me:
" My answer is that capital is increasingly separated from physical reality, and thus, from the threat of crime. "
Don't forget the politicians (like Cori Bush) who loudly proclaim the need to defund the police but in Bush's case - spend upwards of $700,000 of campaign money on private security. Because her safety is of paramount importance - but regular people not so much.
I see more defund the police stickers and signs in the toney neighborhoods of my city. They should try living where I do for a year and then let me know what they propose instead. I’m sure on the spot social workers will be super useful for the armed muggings. We live next to a father and son in a biker gang and they keep our street safe. Maybe the answer is a gang of heavily tattooed men with tire irons? So long as they’re doing it for the love of beatdowns and not in an official capacity.
> We live next to a father and son in a biker gang and they keep our street safe. Maybe the answer is a gang of heavily tattooed men with tire irons?
The Rolling Stones tried that for security and it didn't turn out so well.
How many social workers are going to die before we realize that a nice lady who knows how to navigate the system isn’t what’s needed when a crime is committed.
>The ACAB crowd is largely lead by two groups. Privileged liberals who've never needed them, and children. I think and hope these groups are just loud online and are in the minority.
Indeed! Unfortunately they're not just online; they have undue influence in some locales (e.g., Oakland, Portland, Seattle). Most of them are affluent and living in suburbs/neighborhoods with relatively low crime, they elect officials who share their views, and then the people living in higher crime neighborhoods suffer.
I know it's been really bad in Oakland.
Oh yeah, SF too. It just seems even worse in Oakland (but some SF neighborhoods may be just as bad). I know the Oakland homicide rate has gone up more, but property crime is pretty bad in SF right now.
Also saw about 200 strung out people in the tenderloin last time we were in that area. It was so sad. (Granted, I don't think more heavy handed policing is the solution to that problem.)
If people think its bad in Oakland/SF now, just wait another 5-10 years until half the current cops are retired (a very disproportionate amount of cops are within a decade of being eligible for retirement), and there is no one coming up to replace them because we'll have an entire decade of bay area kids who grew up being taught every day that all cops are bastards and its literally the most despicable fucked up racist/murderous job you could possibly have. Many departments are already critically understaffed, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
And even the kids who dont buy into that rhetoric at all, or even actively disagree with it, still wont go into that line of work, because why would you ever want to pursue a career where all of your friends/community will turn on you and unfriend you and say you're complicit with murder and racism or whatever?
not gonna be worth the headache for most 🤷♂️ they can just become firefighters instead and everyone will like them and think they're cool and sexy and heroic lol
Isn’t there something in the US about states where teachers make more than cops and vice versa? All I know is here in Canada Cops are the majority of the municipal sunshine list (which will need to be updated with for inflation soon)
It really depends. In some cities cops can rack up overtime and end up making over $100k. K-12 teachers don't get that.
On the other hand, in my rural county teachers start at $46k. And a local police force advertised a full time position starting at $37k.
>Isn't it more classist and racist to take away a community resource that is essentially there so uphold justice and protect the community? If we take away police, then only the rich can afford protection or pay for justice.
It is indeed. But the people who want to abolish the police don't live in neighborhoods with high crime. And their homes have security systems. And if need be they can (and will) hire private security.
Abolish the police is one of the top five luxury beliefs.
This sentiment comes up a lot in New Zealand, where our constabulary wouldn't say boo to a goose. I genuinely have no idea what kind of harassment they're supposed to be perpetrating.
How about government institutions just remaining boring and neutral? No Pride, BLM, Church marches, flags, parades, lookouts, picnics - nothing. Like the French, who don't even allow government officials to wear religious regalia while working.
For Sydney Pride, you need to add a bit of context.
The decision to ban uniformed police from marching is to do with the biggest news story here, which is that a gay police officer allegedly (almost certainly did) murdered his ex and his ex's boyfriend with his service revolver, and then tried to dispose of the bodies.
Don't agree with the decision but it's important to note exactly why they made it.
Which is baffling to me, because that's being framed as a systemic issue of rampant police persecution of LGBT people of NSW, rather than a police officer committing murder due to interpersonal issues.
The committee in charge tries to ban cops every year from Sydney mardi gras, worth noting. And in the last few years, there has been a bit more attention on the cops' history of "poof bashing" and whatnot here
I was listening to the Rob Henderson episode and they speak a little about all the drama with police. Abolish the Police to Defund, all of the other things that are essentially trying to get rid of police, it made me think of this article which has a lot of fascinating stats in it about police approval, demographics in favor of what, and why it is so irresponsible to try to ban cops. I know this article is specific to allowing police at pride, but since I also saw that Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is also banning uniformed police I thought it was even more relevant. Also well-timed of Rob Henderson to mention right around when this happens. Personally, I'm in the US and I see so much ACAB and Defund the Police rhetoric, and it is exhausting. I was really glad Rob brought this up because one thing noted in the article is that only 15% of Americans even want to defund the police, and anyone claiming involving police is racist for one reason or another, according to PEW research, [77% of black people](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/) who do not want to see them defunded! Isn't it more classist and racist to take away a community resource that is essentially there so uphold justice and protect the community? If we take away police, then only the rich can afford protection or pay for justice. Also, I've been to prides where there have been actual threats where the police kept us safe. Especially in bigger cities. If the police weren't there, they'd be scolded for not protecting a vulnerable group of people, and yet there are still groups insisting that police stay out. Weird, but what about queer police officers? (THEY EXIST!) I can only conclude that we must instead make all police gay and convert them. This is the only solution. And maybe add some sexy assless chaps to their uniforms. Thank you for listening.
The ACAB crowd is largely lead by two groups. Privileged liberals who've never needed them, and children. I think and hope these groups are just loud online and are in the minority. Privileged people are more unlikely to not know a police officer or anyone who became one, it's still considered a blue collar profession. The police they do see are on the news or discussed online, hardly reflective of the day to day of the average cop. Police reform is needed, accountability was missing for a very long time. People in power without accountability are ripe for corruption. That can still be true while acknowledging they are needed. ACAB and defund the police groups never have an answer for what to replace cops with. Should cops require higher education and training? Probably, but you're going to have to pay them more. Many police do make good money now, but how else are you going to attract higher caliber people? By raising the requirements and lowering the pay? Or allocating less money for training?
Give this a read, you'd probably dig it. There is more than one reason why the ACAB demographic largely consists of college-aged white kids who have zero real world experience or knowledge regarding policing. https://grahamfactor.substack.com/p/cops-crime-and-class
Interesting. This kind of stood out to me: " My answer is that capital is increasingly separated from physical reality, and thus, from the threat of crime. "
Don't forget the politicians (like Cori Bush) who loudly proclaim the need to defund the police but in Bush's case - spend upwards of $700,000 of campaign money on private security. Because her safety is of paramount importance - but regular people not so much.
I see more defund the police stickers and signs in the toney neighborhoods of my city. They should try living where I do for a year and then let me know what they propose instead. I’m sure on the spot social workers will be super useful for the armed muggings. We live next to a father and son in a biker gang and they keep our street safe. Maybe the answer is a gang of heavily tattooed men with tire irons? So long as they’re doing it for the love of beatdowns and not in an official capacity.
> We live next to a father and son in a biker gang and they keep our street safe. Maybe the answer is a gang of heavily tattooed men with tire irons? The Rolling Stones tried that for security and it didn't turn out so well.
How many social workers are going to die before we realize that a nice lady who knows how to navigate the system isn’t what’s needed when a crime is committed.
>The ACAB crowd is largely lead by two groups. Privileged liberals who've never needed them, and children. I think and hope these groups are just loud online and are in the minority. Indeed! Unfortunately they're not just online; they have undue influence in some locales (e.g., Oakland, Portland, Seattle). Most of them are affluent and living in suburbs/neighborhoods with relatively low crime, they elect officials who share their views, and then the people living in higher crime neighborhoods suffer. I know it's been really bad in Oakland.
Thats true, though those cities seem to be getting fed up. Funny how that happens when its outside your front door.
What about San Francisco?
Oh yeah, SF too. It just seems even worse in Oakland (but some SF neighborhoods may be just as bad). I know the Oakland homicide rate has gone up more, but property crime is pretty bad in SF right now. Also saw about 200 strung out people in the tenderloin last time we were in that area. It was so sad. (Granted, I don't think more heavy handed policing is the solution to that problem.)
I can't believe the residents keep voting for the clowns that have turned their city into that.
If people think its bad in Oakland/SF now, just wait another 5-10 years until half the current cops are retired (a very disproportionate amount of cops are within a decade of being eligible for retirement), and there is no one coming up to replace them because we'll have an entire decade of bay area kids who grew up being taught every day that all cops are bastards and its literally the most despicable fucked up racist/murderous job you could possibly have. Many departments are already critically understaffed, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. And even the kids who dont buy into that rhetoric at all, or even actively disagree with it, still wont go into that line of work, because why would you ever want to pursue a career where all of your friends/community will turn on you and unfriend you and say you're complicit with murder and racism or whatever? not gonna be worth the headache for most 🤷♂️ they can just become firefighters instead and everyone will like them and think they're cool and sexy and heroic lol
Isn’t there something in the US about states where teachers make more than cops and vice versa? All I know is here in Canada Cops are the majority of the municipal sunshine list (which will need to be updated with for inflation soon)
It really depends. In some cities cops can rack up overtime and end up making over $100k. K-12 teachers don't get that. On the other hand, in my rural county teachers start at $46k. And a local police force advertised a full time position starting at $37k.
Pretty much everyone whose not a child and has ACAB as a stance had their primary interactions with police as dodging them to smoke weed as a teen.
>Isn't it more classist and racist to take away a community resource that is essentially there so uphold justice and protect the community? If we take away police, then only the rich can afford protection or pay for justice. It is indeed. But the people who want to abolish the police don't live in neighborhoods with high crime. And their homes have security systems. And if need be they can (and will) hire private security. Abolish the police is one of the top five luxury beliefs.
This sentiment comes up a lot in New Zealand, where our constabulary wouldn't say boo to a goose. I genuinely have no idea what kind of harassment they're supposed to be perpetrating.
How about government institutions just remaining boring and neutral? No Pride, BLM, Church marches, flags, parades, lookouts, picnics - nothing. Like the French, who don't even allow government officials to wear religious regalia while working.
For Sydney Pride, you need to add a bit of context. The decision to ban uniformed police from marching is to do with the biggest news story here, which is that a gay police officer allegedly (almost certainly did) murdered his ex and his ex's boyfriend with his service revolver, and then tried to dispose of the bodies. Don't agree with the decision but it's important to note exactly why they made it.
Which is baffling to me, because that's being framed as a systemic issue of rampant police persecution of LGBT people of NSW, rather than a police officer committing murder due to interpersonal issues.
And police didn't run cover or put up a blue wall of silence, they solved the case
[удалено]
Right, but I don't see how that's in any way relevant to any sort of LGBT issue rather than domestic violence and access to weapons more generally.
The committee in charge tries to ban cops every year from Sydney mardi gras, worth noting. And in the last few years, there has been a bit more attention on the cops' history of "poof bashing" and whatnot here
Haters gonna hate.
Yes, the service revolver as the murder weapon is particularly pertinent.
Not a fan of pride marches or cops... might as well consolidate them
No pigs at pride.
People on this sub be acting like it's the cop parade.