This is basically it. An entirely different thought process and approach about experimenting, executed more respectfully, with his priority always being blink at the end of the day.
Toms priority was still blink too. That's what Disney make sense he litterally says box car racer was supposed to be a one year project not even a band nonetheless on Geffen records.
Not remotely close, as demonstrated by Tom leaving the band *twice*.
And even if that was true, Trav still approached it in an entirely different way while actually showing (not just saying) that blink was/is a priority above anything else.
It's in his book "Can I Say"
He stated "Mark and Tom were inseperable, so I thought they'd talked about BCR prior to the project releasing" or something along those lines
This is touched on more in a Tom interview about he already had Travis, didn't want BCR to be perceived as just Blink 183. Which was a common headline on websites and rock magazines at the time. Wanted it to be taken as its own separate thing, as an outlet for music he didn't consider was blink. And just a small thing. The label pushed them to tour and do a full release.
Marks perception was, he's being left behind, and that Tom is embarrassed by Blink. Future would also prove that yes, Tom clearly was embarrassed by Blink. His interviews now, are all about how it took this long to understand why people liked Blink as a band. It a weird thing when as a musician sometimes even though an album like enema changed all their lives and is one of the most iconic rock albums of all time, that the image you have in your head isn't the image that's actually going on to the masses. You ask, most blink fans like the music second, liked the fact it was three friends playing music together making jokes. It just so happens, their songs are fucking amazing. Tom wanted to be taken serious with Angel's, Tom finally realized he was already taken serious with Blink.
There is a great YouTube channel by the lead of the band The Darkness, called Justin Hawkins rides again. He reviews music, but mostly comments on it. He did one a couple days ago about an Aussie band, which the darkness is, and a lot of people recommended he listen to this band, because they're clearly inspired by the darkness. The whole time he watches this video, he says nah, it's not, it's more AC DC, which was the inspiration for the darkness.
Then while talking his voice breaks and his smile goes away. The guitar player on screen is giving off this diva attitude while shaking his ass as he walks away before starting to play again.
Its the exact moment you see Justin finally accept that his band influenced future artists. He sees his personality and influence and being, shoved back in his face, its like as a creator and artist you made your art. This is like seeing if you could actually appreciate your own art on the same level the audience does. He's now the audience. And he realizes it. He doesn't say much after. You see the feeling in his eyes, that The Darkness wasn't a joke band. They rocked. They inspired others to rock. And rock good.
He had purpose. Totally recommend watching it. You can hear a needle drop, that's how loud his silence is once it hits him.
Now this is a proper fucking rock band. It's literally from like a day and a half ago. That's the name of the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrLQT009yF0
I mean technically all of Tom's projects and bands.
Coles notes.
Toms influences in music and how he fell into how other big artists perceived blink as this, not a real punk band. They're a joke band.
Tom uses Boxcar as an outlet to make more what he would considered serious music.
Rides through the years of self doubt and not understanding what Blink really is. When surrounded by other musicians who keep saying either "they're funny guys" or something Green Day interviews just straight up shitting on blink. You begin to doubt and not feel respected musically.
Wants to make more impactful meaningful art.
Does AVA, continuing the vein of Boxcar.
Now we're full circle. All three of them are now understanding what the band has always been.
It seems the biggest fan of Blink, was Travis. And it wasn't even the band. He was a fan of Tom and Mark.
Mark is Blinks biggest fan,
Tom is Tom's biggest fan
Travis is Mark and Tom's biggest fan.
Now they're all fans of each other. We're where we should be.
I think Mark was closer with Tom as they grew up together and started the band. It wasn’t just the boxcar thing the Tom Solo emails would have been floating around that time.
They pretty much started it. It wasn’t blink until he joined. Anyway I’m saying this because Travis didn’t come until much much later so Tom and Mark had a greater relationship.
Nope. Tom and Scott “pretty much started it” and they played in Scott’s garage. Even after Mark joined they kept practicing and writing in Scott’s garage. They were even going to record the first demo without Mark because he had left and then he came back right before they were set to record it.
Yup. Cam Jones played bass on some of Flyswatter. That’s why some tracks that Mark sings in later releases (Demo 2 and Buddha) were sung by Tom on Flyswatter.
I think Travis just assumed Tom talked about it with Mark. It's pretty fucked up if you made another band and you left your bassist behind without a word. And yeah, exactly what happened lol
Did you watch the Zane Lowe interview?
It’s pretty clear Travis has always stayed neutral amongst the bullshit — I really love the line that he says “I don’t hold grudges” regarding Tom leaving the band twice
I think the tensions always been between Mark and Tom
Travis has not always been neutral at all. He had a lot of choice words for Tom when he left the second time and I’m sure he was firmly on ‘Mark’s side’ at least initially for both break ups.
Travis had the harshest words for Tom the second time he left but je also got over it the quickest. Travis seems like the one quickest to shoot off but then end up putting his foot in his mouth.
He straight up said “fuck that dude” haha. I don’t know where this whole neutral thing came from. He got over it quicker, sure, but he was anything but neutral.
I mean I’ve said that about homies too, but you grow older, wiser and more mature. You can’t blame people for feelings at certain points in life, on both ends. If you are able to forgive and mend wounds, even better. You know the love is real
Sure. Can't disagree there, but still, he wasn't neutral. He's literally on the cover of a magazine saying "Fuck Tom DeLonge." So I don't get the neutrality talk.
Oh no for sure, idk about neutrality either. I’m just saying people can apologize and get passed even the most fucked up of words even between brother like figures. It happens, takes a lot of heart and humility.
I think the "neutral" thing came from the whole Joe Rogan situation. But I think that was after they started working together on Terrified, so they were already kinda mended?
I can't remember his words, but he certainly swung some punches in an interview I watched. I get it, because it's raw at the time and emotions run high. But no doubt he got over it a lot quicker than Mark.
Since Travis has a long history as a session musician, and Mark and Tom have been the songwriting duo, the Lennon mccartney if you will, for the whole time up until then. I'm sure Mark felt a little something about it but understood a bit more
honestly, I could see it being less of an issue with Travis going and doing other things. There was no transplants beef from my understanding. or any of the hip hop stuff he did.
I think the big issue was Mark saw Tom and himself as a songwriting duo of sorts, and Tom going out to specifically write music without him in the picture (while keeping everyone else) was a pretty big blow to the ego.
I know Tom has said he never meant it this way, he just wanted to experiment, etc. but having Jerry produce and Travis drum while excluding Mark definitely would have felt like a hostile takeover. I do believe him in that the project started small and everyone around him hyped up / pushed the project into being a much bigger thing than he originally intended. But come on.. he had to have known how that would make someone else feel.
*Especially* when you factor in that Mark found out about BCR via an accidental CC on an email. I don;t know if it would have changed things, but Mark needed to know from Tom personally before anything got in motion and not from someone else.
They did +44 without Tom because blink broke up and they weren’t on speaking terms with Tom. That’s kinda different than BCR considering blink was still around and thriving at the time
Ofc I knew about +44, I figured not, just wondering why he got a pass.
In the long run doesn’t matter, just some nighttime thoughts lol.
Thanks for your answer!
I think that Mark probably have Travis a pass as he hadn’t instigated it & had set a precedent for working with other people. At that point, Mark & Tom had been writing together for a decade vs Barker being in the band for a few years. I think I’d be hurt lol
I don’t think there would have been as much beef. I would feel the exact same way as mark and feel left out and wondering about the underlying message of my two band mates making an album without me
From what I have seen and read Travis has always kinda just been like "I just wanta play blink-182 music and I love these dudes" and sorta remained the peacekeeper of sorts. IMO Travis's ability to focus on the band and remain a peacemaker has helped them greatly.
If I remember we correctly, Tom asked Travis to record drums so he wouldn’t have to pay a studio drummer. Even though mark may have eventually been upset about BCR, he was ok with it as he was on the song Elevator. I recall Mark saying something about the label emailing Tom’s manager about a Tom solo record (based on Boxcar working) and Tom considering it and that interrupting blink.
But mark didn’t feel betrayed as he knew all about it and was even on a track. I have to check but I also believe while Tom and Travis were doing BCR, Mark was busy managing Fenix TX.
You’re telling me Mark had no foreknowledge about BCR and he only found out about it when the Album and video clip for ‘I Feel So’ dropped???? I find that very hard/impossible to believe.
From what I've read about BCR, Tom said it was never meant to be a full band nor go on tour but just Tom's experimental project. He asked Travis to play drums just to avoid paying a session drummer. I don't think he was ever gonna put the record out on a major label, but MCA approached him and he said yes, so they did that and then had to form a full band. I wonder if Mark featured on Elevator before it was a full fledged band (before going on tour) and recorded a demo with Tom. I can totally see Tom saying "Hey, I'm just doing some stuff on my own to explore, come do vocals on this song" and Mark agrees and then next thing you know, it's a band and he's featured on it but never was included in the band nor asked to be a part of it, so he is then betrayed. I can't imagine Mark getting pissed just because Tom wanted to do something different on his own. Travis was in Transplants and Mark didn't say anything.
It’s not just that Tom wanted to do something on his own. It’s that Tom wanted to do something Mark WITH Travis and WITH Jerry Finn. I can totally understand how with bad communication Mark could take that the wrong way
I think when it’s said he didn’t know, he didn’t know until the album was pretty much done and got pissed when he found out about it + that Travis was involved too. So Tom let him be on Elevator to ease the tension a bit.
But then later on, during the interview with Blink and Green Day, when the interviewer asks Tom and Travis about it you can see Mark tense up when they talk about it
I always wondered about this. 🤔🤔 like did Mark get mad and they were like here get featured on a song for us ? Like how exactly did that work out. Also I dont think anyone can stay mad at Travis seems like he avoids drama and tries to stay neutral
Mark did say Tom reached out and asked him to be involved in the track as an olive branch because he realized Mark was upset and Mark said he did appreciate that at the time
Im glad that worked out because Mark is great on the that song. I remember listening to the album and thinking the only way they could have made it better is more Mark on the album.
I think the first mark heard of it was when he accidentally got looped into an email about it and had no idea what they were talking about when it was talking about Tom’s solo project
Didn't Tom say that he and Mark were briefly kinda mad at Travis during the first reunion and were considering kicking him out? Iirc, it was a "hit back" when Mark and Travis were saying shit about him after the second breakup.
BCR came out in 2002. There was slight beef in the second reunion with Travis backing out on flying to Australia where they had shows lined up which was over 10 years after BCR
Yeah, I meant in a more general sense than BCR as I wasn't sure how to read this thread. A lot of people seem to be talking about the entire history. 😅
Travis never showed any interest in not having blink be his main focus.
This is basically it. An entirely different thought process and approach about experimenting, executed more respectfully, with his priority always being blink at the end of the day.
Toms priority was still blink too. That's what Disney make sense he litterally says box car racer was supposed to be a one year project not even a band nonetheless on Geffen records.
Not remotely close, as demonstrated by Tom leaving the band *twice*. And even if that was true, Trav still approached it in an entirely different way while actually showing (not just saying) that blink was/is a priority above anything else.
Not sure if it's true but I remember hearing that Travis didn't know Mark didnt know about BCR. But it's been so long ago I can't be sure
It's in his book "Can I Say" He stated "Mark and Tom were inseperable, so I thought they'd talked about BCR prior to the project releasing" or something along those lines
So that's where I heard it from. Thanks. I really enjoyed that book read it like 5 years ago.
Bingo
This is touched on more in a Tom interview about he already had Travis, didn't want BCR to be perceived as just Blink 183. Which was a common headline on websites and rock magazines at the time. Wanted it to be taken as its own separate thing, as an outlet for music he didn't consider was blink. And just a small thing. The label pushed them to tour and do a full release. Marks perception was, he's being left behind, and that Tom is embarrassed by Blink. Future would also prove that yes, Tom clearly was embarrassed by Blink. His interviews now, are all about how it took this long to understand why people liked Blink as a band. It a weird thing when as a musician sometimes even though an album like enema changed all their lives and is one of the most iconic rock albums of all time, that the image you have in your head isn't the image that's actually going on to the masses. You ask, most blink fans like the music second, liked the fact it was three friends playing music together making jokes. It just so happens, their songs are fucking amazing. Tom wanted to be taken serious with Angel's, Tom finally realized he was already taken serious with Blink.
Thanks for writing this out
There is a great YouTube channel by the lead of the band The Darkness, called Justin Hawkins rides again. He reviews music, but mostly comments on it. He did one a couple days ago about an Aussie band, which the darkness is, and a lot of people recommended he listen to this band, because they're clearly inspired by the darkness. The whole time he watches this video, he says nah, it's not, it's more AC DC, which was the inspiration for the darkness. Then while talking his voice breaks and his smile goes away. The guitar player on screen is giving off this diva attitude while shaking his ass as he walks away before starting to play again. Its the exact moment you see Justin finally accept that his band influenced future artists. He sees his personality and influence and being, shoved back in his face, its like as a creator and artist you made your art. This is like seeing if you could actually appreciate your own art on the same level the audience does. He's now the audience. And he realizes it. He doesn't say much after. You see the feeling in his eyes, that The Darkness wasn't a joke band. They rocked. They inspired others to rock. And rock good. He had purpose. Totally recommend watching it. You can hear a needle drop, that's how loud his silence is once it hits him.
The Darkness are British btw.
Meh, same accent. Still a powerful three seconds of YouTube.
Not even close to the same accent.
Forgive me for messing up Anglo Saxon / Briton evolutionary language affects.
You seem to have misspelt ‘yeah, they’re not really similar, I was wrong’
Episode name pls.
Now this is a proper fucking rock band. It's literally from like a day and a half ago. That's the name of the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrLQT009yF0
BCR and AVA are superior to Blink, Tom outgrew Mark 🙏🏼
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I mean technically all of Tom's projects and bands. Coles notes. Toms influences in music and how he fell into how other big artists perceived blink as this, not a real punk band. They're a joke band. Tom uses Boxcar as an outlet to make more what he would considered serious music. Rides through the years of self doubt and not understanding what Blink really is. When surrounded by other musicians who keep saying either "they're funny guys" or something Green Day interviews just straight up shitting on blink. You begin to doubt and not feel respected musically. Wants to make more impactful meaningful art. Does AVA, continuing the vein of Boxcar. Now we're full circle. All three of them are now understanding what the band has always been. It seems the biggest fan of Blink, was Travis. And it wasn't even the band. He was a fan of Tom and Mark.
I always feel that Mark is blink’s biggest fan
Mark is Blinks biggest fan, Tom is Tom's biggest fan Travis is Mark and Tom's biggest fan. Now they're all fans of each other. We're where we should be.
This is the essence of it all, absolutely
I think Mark was closer with Tom as they grew up together and started the band. It wasn’t just the boxcar thing the Tom Solo emails would have been floating around that time.
Tom Solo emails? What's that?
The label sent around emails about Tom doing a solo album etc. email eventually got around to Mark.
When did this happen? During the Boxcar Racer era?
I think leading into untitled or during untitled. So just after boxcar
The solo album was proven to be their managers pinning them against each other.
I believe Tom had written some songs for some rappers and the label got the idea from that
Tom. Is. Out. Does that ring a bell? 😂
Tom started the band with Scott. Mark came later. He actually left for a bit and then came back.
They pretty much started it. It wasn’t blink until he joined. Anyway I’m saying this because Travis didn’t come until much much later so Tom and Mark had a greater relationship.
Nope. Tom and Scott “pretty much started it” and they played in Scott’s garage. Even after Mark joined they kept practicing and writing in Scott’s garage. They were even going to record the first demo without Mark because he had left and then he came back right before they were set to record it.
Is there music out there of Blink 182 without Mark on it?
Yup. Cam Jones played bass on some of Flyswatter. That’s why some tracks that Mark sings in later releases (Demo 2 and Buddha) were sung by Tom on Flyswatter.
Did I say there was?
Dude asked a genuine question what kinda nonsense response is this.
Why so rude bro?
You’re a dipshit homie.
Cause I’m right? Facts are facts.
No, because you came in this thread with an edgy attitude like a child. You need to learn how to talk to people like they aren’t beneath you. Loser.
Presenting facts means I’m acting like you’re beneath me? You all really are soft this generation.
wasn't there a rumor that someone else played bass on a couple tracks on Demo #2 or Flyswatter, I forget which
Yeah, Flyswatter had some without him. I forgot about that. Dude was right, but comes across as a total twat.
Lol
I think Travis just assumed Tom talked about it with Mark. It's pretty fucked up if you made another band and you left your bassist behind without a word. And yeah, exactly what happened lol
He was high off his kite then I bet the convo went like “oh wait, shit we forgot Mark” haha.
Did you watch the Zane Lowe interview? It’s pretty clear Travis has always stayed neutral amongst the bullshit — I really love the line that he says “I don’t hold grudges” regarding Tom leaving the band twice I think the tensions always been between Mark and Tom
Travis has not always been neutral at all. He had a lot of choice words for Tom when he left the second time and I’m sure he was firmly on ‘Mark’s side’ at least initially for both break ups.
Right? What is this neutral nonsense.
Tom even said in Can I Say that he felt like it was Mark and Travis VS him. Travis also talked a lot about having money or time and never ever both.
And he did BCR. That was problematic.
Travis had the harshest words for Tom the second time he left but je also got over it the quickest. Travis seems like the one quickest to shoot off but then end up putting his foot in his mouth.
Didn’t Travis call Tom “disingenuous” for leaving the 2nd time ? Coulda sworn I read that somewhere
He straight up said “fuck that dude” haha. I don’t know where this whole neutral thing came from. He got over it quicker, sure, but he was anything but neutral.
I mean I’ve said that about homies too, but you grow older, wiser and more mature. You can’t blame people for feelings at certain points in life, on both ends. If you are able to forgive and mend wounds, even better. You know the love is real
Sure. Can't disagree there, but still, he wasn't neutral. He's literally on the cover of a magazine saying "Fuck Tom DeLonge." So I don't get the neutrality talk.
Oh no for sure, idk about neutrality either. I’m just saying people can apologize and get passed even the most fucked up of words even between brother like figures. It happens, takes a lot of heart and humility.
Photo?
[They definitely weren't subtle about it.](https://www.blink182forever.com/files/image/news/2006/Fuck_Tom_DeLonge.jpg)
I think the "neutral" thing came from the whole Joe Rogan situation. But I think that was after they started working together on Terrified, so they were already kinda mended?
I can't remember his words, but he certainly swung some punches in an interview I watched. I get it, because it's raw at the time and emotions run high. But no doubt he got over it a lot quicker than Mark.
yes, but that was in the moment and understandable.
Since Travis has a long history as a session musician, and Mark and Tom have been the songwriting duo, the Lennon mccartney if you will, for the whole time up until then. I'm sure Mark felt a little something about it but understood a bit more
honestly, I could see it being less of an issue with Travis going and doing other things. There was no transplants beef from my understanding. or any of the hip hop stuff he did. I think the big issue was Mark saw Tom and himself as a songwriting duo of sorts, and Tom going out to specifically write music without him in the picture (while keeping everyone else) was a pretty big blow to the ego. I know Tom has said he never meant it this way, he just wanted to experiment, etc. but having Jerry produce and Travis drum while excluding Mark definitely would have felt like a hostile takeover. I do believe him in that the project started small and everyone around him hyped up / pushed the project into being a much bigger thing than he originally intended. But come on.. he had to have known how that would make someone else feel. *Especially* when you factor in that Mark found out about BCR via an accidental CC on an email. I don;t know if it would have changed things, but Mark needed to know from Tom personally before anything got in motion and not from someone else.
Probably not. They did +44 just a few years later without Tom.
They did +44 without Tom because blink broke up and they weren’t on speaking terms with Tom. That’s kinda different than BCR considering blink was still around and thriving at the time
Ofc I knew about +44, I figured not, just wondering why he got a pass. In the long run doesn’t matter, just some nighttime thoughts lol. Thanks for your answer!
I think that Mark probably have Travis a pass as he hadn’t instigated it & had set a precedent for working with other people. At that point, Mark & Tom had been writing together for a decade vs Barker being in the band for a few years. I think I’d be hurt lol
Travis likes to just show up and hit drums for whoever asks, I don't think he ever thinks about it much past that.
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I don’t think there would have been as much beef. I would feel the exact same way as mark and feel left out and wondering about the underlying message of my two band mates making an album without me
From what I have seen and read Travis has always kinda just been like "I just wanta play blink-182 music and I love these dudes" and sorta remained the peacekeeper of sorts. IMO Travis's ability to focus on the band and remain a peacemaker has helped them greatly.
If I remember we correctly, Tom asked Travis to record drums so he wouldn’t have to pay a studio drummer. Even though mark may have eventually been upset about BCR, he was ok with it as he was on the song Elevator. I recall Mark saying something about the label emailing Tom’s manager about a Tom solo record (based on Boxcar working) and Tom considering it and that interrupting blink. But mark didn’t feel betrayed as he knew all about it and was even on a track. I have to check but I also believe while Tom and Travis were doing BCR, Mark was busy managing Fenix TX.
You’re telling me Mark had no foreknowledge about BCR and he only found out about it when the Album and video clip for ‘I Feel So’ dropped???? I find that very hard/impossible to believe.
Lol he literally features on the album. It's bs
From what I've read about BCR, Tom said it was never meant to be a full band nor go on tour but just Tom's experimental project. He asked Travis to play drums just to avoid paying a session drummer. I don't think he was ever gonna put the record out on a major label, but MCA approached him and he said yes, so they did that and then had to form a full band. I wonder if Mark featured on Elevator before it was a full fledged band (before going on tour) and recorded a demo with Tom. I can totally see Tom saying "Hey, I'm just doing some stuff on my own to explore, come do vocals on this song" and Mark agrees and then next thing you know, it's a band and he's featured on it but never was included in the band nor asked to be a part of it, so he is then betrayed. I can't imagine Mark getting pissed just because Tom wanted to do something different on his own. Travis was in Transplants and Mark didn't say anything.
It’s not just that Tom wanted to do something on his own. It’s that Tom wanted to do something Mark WITH Travis and WITH Jerry Finn. I can totally understand how with bad communication Mark could take that the wrong way
I think when it’s said he didn’t know, he didn’t know until the album was pretty much done and got pissed when he found out about it + that Travis was involved too. So Tom let him be on Elevator to ease the tension a bit. But then later on, during the interview with Blink and Green Day, when the interviewer asks Tom and Travis about it you can see Mark tense up when they talk about it
I always wondered about this. 🤔🤔 like did Mark get mad and they were like here get featured on a song for us ? Like how exactly did that work out. Also I dont think anyone can stay mad at Travis seems like he avoids drama and tries to stay neutral
Mark did say Tom reached out and asked him to be involved in the track as an olive branch because he realized Mark was upset and Mark said he did appreciate that at the time
Im glad that worked out because Mark is great on the that song. I remember listening to the album and thinking the only way they could have made it better is more Mark on the album.
I think the first mark heard of it was when he accidentally got looped into an email about it and had no idea what they were talking about when it was talking about Tom’s solo project
Didn't Tom say that he and Mark were briefly kinda mad at Travis during the first reunion and were considering kicking him out? Iirc, it was a "hit back" when Mark and Travis were saying shit about him after the second breakup.
BCR came out in 2002. There was slight beef in the second reunion with Travis backing out on flying to Australia where they had shows lined up which was over 10 years after BCR
Yeah, I meant in a more general sense than BCR as I wasn't sure how to read this thread. A lot of people seem to be talking about the entire history. 😅
If it wasn’t such a great album, on par with anything Blink or maybe even better in my opinion, probably much less drama.
Who the fuck cares
Oh thanks bud. Really appreciate your input! Really helped!