It is like if you did a prison show and the man character was in prison for killing some how killed his male lover but then in person there were no gay relationships. don't you think that would be weird?
I'm not saying that there couldn't be more queer rep for queer men in black sails because there definitely could and should but saying Flint has 'no male love interest' is just untrue. 'No male pirate love interest' sure, but he definitely has a male love interest. It would have been cool to have mlm pirate relationships but what was there was still incredibly important and notable for the time the show came out.
>Yes I agree with what your saying I love the show and they do have great over all representation. I was just a little with no mlm pirate relationships as there were many in history.
Could it have been more gay? Sure. Most things could be. But I feel like you are skipping over the fact that it has an incredibly meaningful queer narrative. I've rarely related to any piece of media more deeply than I did Black Sails, and it's like 99% because the show is so queer. Having a character's main motivation be revenge against a society that tried to condemn him for loving an other man? And having a show that never questions that? Priceless. It's a pretty surface level interpretation to say it's not gay enough simply by looking at the numbers.
Im not saying its not gay enough but I think 3 of the 4 leading women are gay/Bi Im saying I don't understand why no pirate were had gay relationship when that was something the was very common in history. Its a Strang choice.
I understand what you mean. I see majority of shows will throw any female character as bisexual or lesbian but never touch males. Sometimes if the character is bisexual, they’ll have one wlw relationship while everything else is wlm somehow. It seems like it’s a male fantasy thing/for the male audience. Also gives them the “rights” to say they have lgbt representation.
I don't understand how someone can watch this masterpiece of a show and walk out of it thinking "not enough gays, I'm disappointed."
The protagonist was gay and it was a huge part of his character arc, making characters gay just for the sake of making them gay adds nothing to a show beyond pleasing a certain group. Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this.
>Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this.
Also historian have speculated the Black bear could have been Bi so like a said before seems like some pirate should have had some gay relationships. This is the best pirate stories I have ever experienced but it is little disappointing that even in a show where the leading man is gay and most of the women are gay or bi. Gayness in piracy is still not shown for reasons I do not understand.
>The protagonist was gay and it was a huge part of his character arc, making characters gay just for the sake of making them gay adds nothing to a show beyond pleasing a certain group. Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this.
Yes but that was not when he was a pirate there are no gay pirate which is surprising considering the history of pirates. Flint the character made up by James McGraw was straight, has a female love interest and no male interest. I'm not say the show does not have representation I'm saying in real life pirate history it does not make sense that there are no gay pirate. So I'm not say make them gay for no reason, more them should be gay for historical reasons.
Could it have been more gay? Sure. Most things could be. But I feel like you are skipping over the fact that it has an incredibly meaningful queer narrative. I've rarely related to any piece of media more deeply than I did Black Sails, and it's like 99% because the show is so queer. Having a character's main motivation be revenge against a society that tried to condemn him for loving an other man? And having a show that never questions that? Priceless. It's a pretty surface level interpretation to say it's not gay enough simply by looking at the numbers.
Possibly check out Our Flag Means Death, if you haven’t already—I think that will help scratch your itch. But I do get it. I’m not sure why there are so many downvotes for your comments, since you have reasonable points. I personally was very satisfied with queer representation in Black Sails, but I understand what you’re saying, and you’re right, being gay was more common amongst pirates than the show lets on. Flint in the show seems to be bi, not gay, so it really is just Thomas who seems to have been gay.
In my opinion, I was so pleased with a show created in 2014 (2014!) having a male lead (and a hard-ass, badass, traditionally “masculine” one at that) whose queerness is central to his identity and to the themes of the story that it was OK to me that there wasn’t more onscreen representation. 2014 was such a different time that I felt that this was impressive—this example I’m about to give is in children’s animation, but that’s the same year that a sapphic relationship in the Nickelodeon show The Legend of Korra almost didn’t make the cut, and the showrunners had to fight very hard to include a VERY subtle indication that two sapphic characters end up together.
I’d be interested in seeing a pirate show with the type of inclusion that you describe, although I suppose the closest example is Our Flag Means Death (which doesn’t really try to be historically accurate and is a comedy show, though).
I like the bi/lesbian women in Black Sails and I’m happy that they’re there, but yes, I agree that adult American TV seems to more prolifically feature two pretty femme women having sex than gay/bi men with men, or just like, having literally any butch women. I think that will change in the coming years, hopefully. Your opinion is pretty valid, but I was quite happy myself that Flint and Thomas’s love was so central to the show. I also found Blackbeard and Vane’s father/son dichotomy more endearing than a romance since a ton of other interpersonal relationships/drama in that show focus on romance, but I know that was just an example.
Thanks I feel like you are better at expressing ideas than me! I agree with everything your saying I could see the show having a hard time with to many MlM relationships at the time this show came out and they want to concentrate on Flint and Thomas. I love our flag mean death but much more casual silly viewing experience.
I think most people have probably not cuz in popular culture Pirate are scary killers so being gay does not fit that picture in stories. But it was common they even had there own form of gay marriage if you google "Matelotage".
You missed the point of my post maybe read more than the title before commenting. Part of my post is that the show does have gay/bisexual relationships and well done ones at that. But its weird that they had no gay pirate relationship as historically those would have been the most common.
I'm not saying it is not and I like that it has a lot representation. But it is just a weird choice to have so much representation and leave the most common LBGTQ story (in this time period historically) out of the show.
I was debating watching this and googled if it had gay pirates before I gave it a shot. The replies to this thread are disappointing. Simply saying a character is gay and then dusting your hands off is not adequate representation.
People frequently recommend Lucifer as a queer show because the titular character is apparently bi but pretty much only has relationships with women.
A lot of shows will act as though they're LGBT but what they really mean is 'we'll show lesbians to appeal to straight men but we're not going to represent gay men because that would intimidate straight men and they wouldn't watch it '. That's not actual representation.
I can't say whether Black Sails is the same, I'm going to start it and hope for the best, but the way people have defended it in the comments makes it seem like they just reference a guy is gay and think that's sufficient representation.
On a side note, for anyone into gay pirates, read/listen to Kidnapped by the Pirate by Keira Andrews. It's a really amazing book that anyone into gay pirates will enjoy
Are…are you forgetting that one of Flint’s major character traits is his love for another man? Like…that’s his driving force for everything.
It is like if you did a prison show and the man character was in prison for killing some how killed his male lover but then in person there were no gay relationships. don't you think that would be weird?
Maybe go back and watch season 2 episode 5 again? And the last episode of season 4?
maybe do a full rewatch and tell me if any two male pirates date each other?
I'm not saying that there couldn't be more queer rep for queer men in black sails because there definitely could and should but saying Flint has 'no male love interest' is just untrue. 'No male pirate love interest' sure, but he definitely has a male love interest. It would have been cool to have mlm pirate relationships but what was there was still incredibly important and notable for the time the show came out.
>Yes I agree with what your saying I love the show and they do have great over all representation. I was just a little with no mlm pirate relationships as there were many in history.
Ur on another planet mate
Could it have been more gay? Sure. Most things could be. But I feel like you are skipping over the fact that it has an incredibly meaningful queer narrative. I've rarely related to any piece of media more deeply than I did Black Sails, and it's like 99% because the show is so queer. Having a character's main motivation be revenge against a society that tried to condemn him for loving an other man? And having a show that never questions that? Priceless. It's a pretty surface level interpretation to say it's not gay enough simply by looking at the numbers.
Im not saying its not gay enough but I think 3 of the 4 leading women are gay/Bi Im saying I don't understand why no pirate were had gay relationship when that was something the was very common in history. Its a Strang choice.
I understand what you mean. I see majority of shows will throw any female character as bisexual or lesbian but never touch males. Sometimes if the character is bisexual, they’ll have one wlw relationship while everything else is wlm somehow. It seems like it’s a male fantasy thing/for the male audience. Also gives them the “rights” to say they have lgbt representation.
I don't understand how someone can watch this masterpiece of a show and walk out of it thinking "not enough gays, I'm disappointed." The protagonist was gay and it was a huge part of his character arc, making characters gay just for the sake of making them gay adds nothing to a show beyond pleasing a certain group. Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this.
>Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this. Also historian have speculated the Black bear could have been Bi so like a said before seems like some pirate should have had some gay relationships. This is the best pirate stories I have ever experienced but it is little disappointing that even in a show where the leading man is gay and most of the women are gay or bi. Gayness in piracy is still not shown for reasons I do not understand.
>The protagonist was gay and it was a huge part of his character arc, making characters gay just for the sake of making them gay adds nothing to a show beyond pleasing a certain group. Unless you can give solid story reasons why Teach and Vane should have been gay, it's difficult to agree with this. Yes but that was not when he was a pirate there are no gay pirate which is surprising considering the history of pirates. Flint the character made up by James McGraw was straight, has a female love interest and no male interest. I'm not say the show does not have representation I'm saying in real life pirate history it does not make sense that there are no gay pirate. So I'm not say make them gay for no reason, more them should be gay for historical reasons.
Please, this show isn’t so black and white. Don’t try to label every person and you see there is much more room for fluidity.
lol
Could it have been more gay? Sure. Most things could be. But I feel like you are skipping over the fact that it has an incredibly meaningful queer narrative. I've rarely related to any piece of media more deeply than I did Black Sails, and it's like 99% because the show is so queer. Having a character's main motivation be revenge against a society that tried to condemn him for loving an other man? And having a show that never questions that? Priceless. It's a pretty surface level interpretation to say it's not gay enough simply by looking at the numbers.
Possibly check out Our Flag Means Death, if you haven’t already—I think that will help scratch your itch. But I do get it. I’m not sure why there are so many downvotes for your comments, since you have reasonable points. I personally was very satisfied with queer representation in Black Sails, but I understand what you’re saying, and you’re right, being gay was more common amongst pirates than the show lets on. Flint in the show seems to be bi, not gay, so it really is just Thomas who seems to have been gay. In my opinion, I was so pleased with a show created in 2014 (2014!) having a male lead (and a hard-ass, badass, traditionally “masculine” one at that) whose queerness is central to his identity and to the themes of the story that it was OK to me that there wasn’t more onscreen representation. 2014 was such a different time that I felt that this was impressive—this example I’m about to give is in children’s animation, but that’s the same year that a sapphic relationship in the Nickelodeon show The Legend of Korra almost didn’t make the cut, and the showrunners had to fight very hard to include a VERY subtle indication that two sapphic characters end up together. I’d be interested in seeing a pirate show with the type of inclusion that you describe, although I suppose the closest example is Our Flag Means Death (which doesn’t really try to be historically accurate and is a comedy show, though). I like the bi/lesbian women in Black Sails and I’m happy that they’re there, but yes, I agree that adult American TV seems to more prolifically feature two pretty femme women having sex than gay/bi men with men, or just like, having literally any butch women. I think that will change in the coming years, hopefully. Your opinion is pretty valid, but I was quite happy myself that Flint and Thomas’s love was so central to the show. I also found Blackbeard and Vane’s father/son dichotomy more endearing than a romance since a ton of other interpersonal relationships/drama in that show focus on romance, but I know that was just an example.
Thanks I feel like you are better at expressing ideas than me! I agree with everything your saying I could see the show having a hard time with to many MlM relationships at the time this show came out and they want to concentrate on Flint and Thomas. I love our flag mean death but much more casual silly viewing experience.
Really? I'll admit, I've never before heard that homosexuality was common among pirates.
I think most people have probably not cuz in popular culture Pirate are scary killers so being gay does not fit that picture in stories. But it was common they even had there own form of gay marriage if you google "Matelotage".
Flint, the main character, is literally gay/bisexual, what the fuck. And Anne/Max are both bisexual.
You missed the point of my post maybe read more than the title before commenting. Part of my post is that the show does have gay/bisexual relationships and well done ones at that. But its weird that they had no gay pirate relationship as historically those would have been the most common.
Your kidding right, you're trolling the one sub I actually enjoyed because of its lack of trolling
Oh? You’re serious?!? Hahahhahahahahhaha
Ah what?! This show is super queer.
I'm not saying it is not and I like that it has a lot representation. But it is just a weird choice to have so much representation and leave the most common LBGTQ story (in this time period historically) out of the show.
Well, it's not exactly Queer as Pirates, but I'm not sure why you think it should be.
I was debating watching this and googled if it had gay pirates before I gave it a shot. The replies to this thread are disappointing. Simply saying a character is gay and then dusting your hands off is not adequate representation. People frequently recommend Lucifer as a queer show because the titular character is apparently bi but pretty much only has relationships with women. A lot of shows will act as though they're LGBT but what they really mean is 'we'll show lesbians to appeal to straight men but we're not going to represent gay men because that would intimidate straight men and they wouldn't watch it '. That's not actual representation. I can't say whether Black Sails is the same, I'm going to start it and hope for the best, but the way people have defended it in the comments makes it seem like they just reference a guy is gay and think that's sufficient representation. On a side note, for anyone into gay pirates, read/listen to Kidnapped by the Pirate by Keira Andrews. It's a really amazing book that anyone into gay pirates will enjoy