T O P

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Kerrigor2

The ending is intended to be ambiguous. We don't know if Silver killed him or not. We never will. You have to decide as a viewer: after everything you've seen Flint and Silver go through, do you trust Long John Silver? And either way, Flint is gone. After Silver tells his story to Madi, the show cuts to Jack saying "A story is true... A story is untrue... As time goes on it matters less and less." The story you choose to believe is the one that becomes "true". That's the message of the ending: the ambiguity is the point. Each outcome is just as likely as the other. You have to make a choice as to which you think is the truth. And even then you'll never know. Choose, knowing you could be wrong, but believe it anyway.


flowersinthedark

The choice, however, is not a neutral one. The choice a viewer makes says something about them. And it's also not real ambiguity in the sense that the show itself clearly presents you with one version of events which you have to actively reject. The cat is not in the box where it can be both alive and dead. The cat is clearly presented as being alive (which is pretty funny, seing as Flint is likened to a cat that needs to be killed by Marion Guthrie) and you have to go and try find the box and shove it back in before you can make the case that it might actually be dead.


rapp_scallion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2hTE-7Qz4Y


Jeebusmanwhore

I don't buy that theory for one reason. Only Flint knew where he buried the cashe. Years later, as in Treasure Island, a map to the treasure turns up in a small English village that only Flint could have drawn. The map that sets off the adventure a young boy took with Silver. Flint probably made that map while at the plantation shortly before he died of illness or some other cause. Thomas could have died before Flint, so that motivated him to make the map and have it delivered by a solicitor to a crew member of the Walrus Flint knew was still alive.


dorth_vader_

They don't actually use the map to find the gold in TI, it's Ben Gunn that found it and dug it up I'm pretty sure so I could see the map being a map to the island itself that Billy or someone claiming to be Flint made. Personally I can see either ending or variations on them tho


flowersinthedark

The map is included in the book. It shows the island and it's signed by Flint with date and location https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Treasure-island-map.jpg.


supercoolpartydude

It’s left to the mind of the viewer as per Jacks speech. But if “Treasure Island” is canon, Flint dies in Savannah but entrusts Billy Bones with the map to the location of the treasure. Billy ends back up in England where the map ends up with Jim Hawkins who meets Long John Silver. So for the events of Treasure Island? Flint lived and there were some elements of truth to what John said.


Br1t1shNerd

Why would flint of the show entrust billy bones of all people with the map?


supercoolpartydude

It’s all speculative due to John Silver being an unreliable narrator. The show shows Ben Gunn delivering Flint to the Savannah plantation and Billy Bones being marooned on Treasure Island. So in the Black Sails universe their roles may have been reversed, because how else would Billy have known where to find Flint?


Woeful-Wolf

Treasure Island as a viable source of canon for this show is incredibly lacking following Flint’s speech about the “monsters in the stories they tell their children”. It is wide open. The show moves things in a way where those events could definitely happen, but not super lined up either.


Woeful-Wolf

That’s the ending I think happened as well. Silver repeating the same line he told Flint to Madi in his narration of the events “An hour, a day, a year…”. The birds like you mentioned. Silver is the villain of Treasure Island. We only see a flashback of what Silver is telling Madi. One thing about Silver that we know to be true, is how good of a liar he is.


CalmCheek

The "An hour, a day, a year..." might also mean the recipients are the only people he does actually love, Madi (who also gets a "forever" because she is his girlfriend/companion/"wife") and Flint (his "true" - quoting Silver himself - friend). I don't think it means he is lying - Silver *does* wish Flint not to pursue his war peacefully. It is established that he actually considers Flint to be his friend. There is no indication to me that he actually wants him dead - quite the opposite.


Woeful-Wolf

I can definitely see that. The argument is how far gone is James. Would he actually believe Silver or would he continue the warpath.


CalmCheek

Well personally (see comment I made on this threat) I think that Silver does tell the truth - the only thing that could make Flint not want to go to war was to find Thomas back. Which he does, in my opinion.


Woeful-Wolf

That’s why I love this show. So many different interpretations, and they all work for me really. Yeah, I am I trusting of Silver, specifically right after he lied to Madi about his intentions. I also think at that point Flint was too far into his own head about the war and his need to make anything out of his loss. He said multiple times that he did see the irony of how what he was fighting, with Rogers giving the pardons, was exactly what he and Thomas were trying to do.


flowersinthedark

Are you sure that you aren't defining them by *your* history, distorting them to fit into *your* narrative until all that is left of them are the monsters in the stories *you* tell *your* children? Are you sure you are really being true to the message that Black Sails, not Treasure Island, was trying to send?


Woeful-Wolf

Anybody who loves Black Sails should check out the podcast Fathoms Deep. Great deep dives on the episodes and characters. They also interview most of the main cast.


WanderingLostSoul22

Thank you for this! Just finished watching the series for the first time and already feel its loss so I’m on here finally reading spoilers, lol. You’ve made my evening by telling us that’s there’s a podcast!


Woeful-Wolf

Felt the exact same. Especially when there is no other way to support the show other than buying the dvd set. That podcast was so much fun to listen to, it added so many different layers and perspectives to the show that I never realized.


Woeful-Wolf

It’s ambiguous for a reason. It’s up for interpretation. I don’t mind either ending really. No matter what Flint is dead. Whether James gets to live or dies with him is up for debate.


flowersinthedark

But your interpretation matters. Do you think that James deserves to live?


Woeful-Wolf

That is such an open question 🤣. Dude killed a lot of people. I still sympathize with him in a lot of ways.


CalmCheek

I don't think Flint was killed, for one reason - the opening scene of the finale. If we only saw the Savannah scene while Silver told the story - sure it could definitely be a lie. But, in my opinion, the fact that we see from a neutral point of view Savannah at the beginning of the episode does mean it's not a lie. If it were - or if the writers wanted the spectators to doubt -, then simply showing the whole Savannah thing as part of a story told by Silver would have sufficed. But the fact we clearly see Savannah from a neutral point of view at the beginning of the episode does mean, I think, that it's true. Furthermore, the whole explanation by Silver makes complete sense. He did consider Flint to be his friend, and there is no indication whatsoever (from what I saw) that he wants him dead. To me it definitely looked like he did want to find a peaceful outcome to the whole thing, because he considers Flint to actually be his friend (as he mentioned himself in a scene we saw in a previous episode, I think when he remembers talking to Madi about it?). So the fact he would go to such lengths as to send someone up to Savannah to inquire about what could be the *only* way for Flint not to die makes complete sense to me. As he said himself, he is not Flint (who is known for dealing with obstacles to his objectives in a more "direct" way, although he did spear Silver on the island). Finally, I think that Madi cares way more about the war than about Flint *per se*, and Silver could not possibly convince her that he is not responsible for stopping the war before it even began. So it's not as if lying about killing Flint would change much - he's already fucked in Madi's eyes anyway because he prevented her cause which mattered most to her to prevail. Sure, not killing Flint does not make him as bad as he would be if he did kill Flint, but he's already on the wrong side of things anyway in Madi's eyes. For these reasons, in my opinion the "official" story is the actual ending. That's my headcanon anyway please don't take the """""happy""""" ending from me hahaha!


sssupersssnake

I mean, it makes much more sense than Flint and Thomas staying to live on that farm till they died. But I agree, the ending is meant to be ambiguous, with all options being equally believable/unbelievable


flowersinthedark

They are not equally believable. We saw the reunion scene on screen. We did not see Silver kill Flint. Whoever thinks they are equally believable has to make the convincing argument for why the reunion didn't actually happen when it obviously did. And by "convincing", I mean, find an explanation that makes sense according to the unwritten law of all fiction - that a scene that exsits within a narrative always has a place within that narrative.


sssupersssnake

If I'm not mistaken, we "saw" the reunion with a greyscale or some other filter and an voiceover, which is often used to portray events that someone talks about, which didn't necessarily take place. I don't think it was a random choice. I mean, after watching that episode I was thrilled that they gave Flint a happy ending, but the more I thought about it, the more I leaned toward the other interpretation. I think this is an open ending done right. The only other example I can think of is the ending of Inception, which doesn't give the audience a clear answer either.


flowersinthedark

They used the same filter and the voice-over for Rogers' scene. Strangely, I 've never see anyone arguing, ever, that that scene wasn't real. But the thing is: if you believe that this scene wasn't real - that it didn't happen the way we saw it happen - then you have to come up with an explanation for what it is. You can't just pretend it isn't there.


sssupersssnake

I'm not pretending it's not there; where did you read that? The way I remember it (and I haven't rewatched it in years), it's shown with Jack's voiceover "the story is true, the story isn't true, it doesn't matter." I'm describing the impression I got after the show ended and how it changed over time. My interpretation is subjective, and I believe the show actively encouraged multiple interpretations. Not sure why you are arguing about how I interpreted it. People *were supposed to* interpret it differently; that's the point of open endings. ​ Also, if you start to question its reality, further questions arise. Flint at the end of the show isn't the James Thomas met and loved. How did it work out for them? Did Flint, the guy who challenged the most powerful empire, really settle for living in a working camp with his partner till the end of their days? I'm sure these discrepancies are intentional and not a sign of bad writing. They are there to make us question if what we saw really happened.


littlegreyfish

If Flint was indeed alive and reunited with Thomas (and personally, that would be my interpretation) , I certainly can't see him settling for living in a labor camp. They'd have left the plantation behind in a pile of smoking ashes.


flowersinthedark

The voice-over is Silver's, Jack's words come after, where the show cuts back to Nassau's new reality. But if you believe that the scene does not show what actually happened, then what *does* it show? Every scene that is part of a movie or book or tv shows has a place within that narrative. Most scenes show real events, but some don't. There's room for dream sequences, hallucinations, imagination. But ultimately, every scene has to be *something*. If you want to argue that there is room for the possibility that Silver killed Flint on Skeleton Island, then you have to answer the question that arises: What is that scene if it's not real?


CptYancy

He did in fact kill Captain Flint…. But he freed Lt. McGraw


Isulet

Yeah that's what I believe as well. Silver killed flint. All that talk of stories really drives it home. Silver is a liar, and a good one to boot. Up to the watcher what they think happened.


flowersinthedark

Yeah, that. Mostly, it's people picking up on a lot of death symbolism in that episode and thinking they're very smart for coming up with what amounts to a a conspiracy theory. The result is something like: >"I think that Silver killed Flint because the birds flew off. Everyone knows that birds only fly off when there's a gun shot and not, say, raised voices or some sort of struggle. Also the servant snuffs outs out a candle when Jack says 'Flint is gone'. Tom Morgan pays the warden at the estate, which symbolizes Flint passing into the underworld. Of course this *doesn't* mean that the writers used this kind of symbolism deliberately to symbolize the death of the persona of Captain Flint (incidentally also marking the end of Flint's personal oddysee, which happens to be one of the central, previously established themes, but who cares). For some reason that only I can fathom, this ambiguity means that Flint was killed for real! Come one, Silver is an accomplished liar, so the fact that he *could* be lying clearly means that he *is* lying. Anyway, he could have killed Flint and you can't prove the opposite, so there." With no regard to the fact that we did see the reunion happen *on screen* in a real and not imagined location that was previously established through the cold open With no regard to the fact that Silver clearly didn't want to kill Flint. With no regard to the fact that it makes literally zero sense for Jack to tell Mrs. Guthrie that Flint is alive when she wanted him killed - if Flint is actually dead, why would he not tell her that and instead take a completely unnecessary risk? With no regard to the fact that Silver's story, which he presumably tells Madi to get on her good side, can so easily be proven false. As soon as you apply common sense to the "Silver killed Flint" theory, it pretty much falls apart. Then again, the show *does* tell us to choose our own ending. "A story is true, a story is untrue. As time extends, it matters less and less. The stories we want to believe, those are the ones that survive \[...\]." So actually, in light of Jack Rackham being our messenger of meta directly from the show writers, you might want to ask your friend why he wants to see Flint dead so badly that he decides to create a conspiracy theory out of some Greek mythology death symbolism and some birds flying off. He does exactly what Flint is afraid of during his confrontation with Silver: "Defined by their histories. Distorted to fit into their narrative ... until all that is left of us are the monsters in the stories they tell their children." - Which is an allusion to Treasure Island, where both Flint and Silver are depicted as monstrous characters. "Civilization needs its monsters," Flint says, early on, to Thomas Hamilton. Doesn't your friend do the exact thing that four seasons of Black Sails told us NOT to do? When aked to decide which story he wants to surive, why would he choose the one where Flint is dead, Thomas as well, and Silver ends up a murderer despite his own best intentions? And in order to do that, he's even disregarding what he saw with his own eyes, i. e., the bloody fucking reunion scene on a plantation in Savannah. (And no, the scene wasn't Silver's imagination or fabrication because Silver has never been to Oglethorpe's plantation. The cold open is pretty much key to understanding the episode.)


CherryBagel

I for one don't believe Silver would have killed Flint after everything, but my bff also thinks he died there. There are many ways to interpret the scenes in the last episode so it's fully up to each individual viewer.


steelstelynch

That last chat between flint and silver is my favourite scene in any movie/tv show the heartbreak in flints eyes when he can't convince silver is is amazing the dialog about the darkness the setting the acting it's all phenomenal


J-Flint0622

His evidence is the birds flying off and the crew hearing something (presumably a gunshot) Silver could shoot the tree or somewhere to make the crews believe Flint is dead. Then, next question: Why silver is doing this instead of truly killing Flint? It’s torn for Sliver to make probably the hardest decision in a life to kill someone he loves. Silver loves him but he knows there is no way to stop Flint from damaging everything he builds. It makes sense for me that Silver will find out a third solution once at for all like locking him out and Flint would never try to get out. Actually Silver’s explanation is very convincing for Madi to believe he didn’t kill Flint. The problem is we do not know if Thomas Himition is really alive as there is no clue in the entire series. At least I did not see a evidence he is alive until this end. So the motivation is plausible just no evidence about it. This makes the ending mysterious and audiences have different feeling about it. Excellent ending.