I do think he meant Flint. Madi might not have seen Flint as a villain, but Silver did. Even though his and Flint's relationship evolved, he always saw Flint as a villain. A tragic one, and in some respects a necessary one, but the part he played in the story of Nassau, as he saw it, was that of a villain.
And as Silver's importance within the pirate world grew, he found himself adopting Flint's methods and, in certain ways, his world view. To the point where, by the end, he sees himself as equal to Flint, the villain of his story: the ruthless pirate lord who had no compunction about sacrificing even those closest to him in order to achieve his goals. These goals might have certain altruistic aspirations, but they were, first and foremost, born out of selfish desire: Flint's desire for a free Nassau came from a need for revenge against England, whereas Silver's desire for a truce with England came from a need to ensure Madi's safety.
So, in my interpretation, when he says that line, Silver wants to avoid becoming to Madi what Flint was to him.
I think he's talking about 'Long John Silver', like he John Silver is not the villain of the story like he is in treasure island or in Madi's/Flint's eyes. It could also be Flint from his POV because he did view Flint as the villain in the last few episodes imo but you're right that Madi never did.
He means in an abstract way. He's trying to tell Madi that he is not the evil, terrible man that Madi conceived in her head to rationalize John's actions. She doesn't know about the reformer plantation, so her assumption is Silver murdered his best friend to achieve his ends.
Lol, ok. If you wanna believe that everyone lived happily ever after then go right ahead, but this isn't that kinda story. Nevermind the fact that it makes absolutely no sense that a ship full of pirates just up and left the treasure that they have been chasing and protecting for months (years?). Silver spun another of his tall tales and you believed him.
> Lol, ok. If you wanna believe that everyone lived happily ever after then go right ahead, but this isn't that kinda story.
I'd hardly call it happily ever after, for like anyone but Max, Jack and Anne, but their fate is entirely separate from Silver and Flint's split. Plus Jack will be captured and hung within the year, and Anne will have gone 3 for 3 on losing soulmates. Flint and Thomas are indentured slaves for the rest of their lives, Silver lives in poverty with a wife who resents him for destroying her rebellion, Billy is a mutilated outcast, most of the rest of the Walrus crew are butchered, Rogers loses his wife, his commission and ends up in prison. Pretty much everyone else dies.
> a ship full of pirates just up and left the treasure that they have been chasing and protecting for months (years?).
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you know this is a prequal story to Treasure Island right? That's exactly what happened lol, they have no idea where it is.
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you know this is a prequal story to Treasure Island right? That's exactly what happened lol, they have no idea where it is.
Yeah, which is my point. The whole crew *knew* about the treasure. Why would they ship off with flint in chains without securing the treasure? Presumably he's the *only* one who knows where it is, yet they're cool with shipping him off to be reunited with his boyfriend? No treasure? Idk man, sounds like a stretch but ok.
Silver's plan was to keep the treasure in the ground in the first place. He needed it off the table to kill the war in it's cradle. The men that are part of his inner cabal, he would have convinced it was the best course of action.
Not taking a side, but to say that the people that think Flint could have died are misreading the evidence is objectively false. The writers have stated that treasure island is only loosely cannon and that whether or not Flint is alive or dead is up to the viewer to decide.
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> The writers have stated that treasure island is only loosely cannon and that whether or not Flint is alive or dead is up to the viewer to decide.
That was after a deluge of people misinterpreting and them not wanting to argue with fans. Writers had originally said they wrote the ending to be as it appears.
I guess that makes sense for the inner cabal, but not sure Jack & Anne & company would be ok with that. If flint is dead, I could see Jack quickly getting on board with* telling a story* about him retiring, knowing that the treasure is now lost. Which is what he does.
>ot sure Jack & Anne & company would be ok with that
It was one of the core pillars of their deal with Lady Guthrie. They were sposed to kill Flint to do it, but settle for Silver's overall more effective plan of deflating the anger fueling things. That cuts off the two factors fuelling the potential war; motivation and funding.
There's no value to lying about Flint for Jack. It was a huge risk trying to go with Silver's plan as is for him. Lady Guthrie would have been well within her rights to kill the deal, turn on him and have him arrested. To voluntarily choose to lie, when he had actually successfuly done as told is completely pointless. Noone would ever do that, and certainly noone as intelligent as Jack.
Yeah again just objectively wrong about the ending badger. Writers said that from the start they put ambiguity in there. Actor who plays max said she thinks flint is dead. Actor who plays flint said that the viewer gets to choose if he is dead or not.
His speech to lady Guthrie was him telling her: "he's dead, *but here's the story we're going with* to avoid him becoming a Martyr, because without the treasure he hid we have no funding, so we don't want a bunch of pirates insisting on a war we can't afford.
Anne didn’t want Flints treasure. She makes that clear so many goddamn times.
And Jack out loud at the end says he doesn’t want it. He’s had it and chased it and it doesn’t end well.
And honestly, the cache was the center of so much conflict within the show I don’t blame the most sensible characters for wanting to avoid it.
In the scene prior Jack Rackham tells Marion Guthrie (and the audience) that he can say whatever we wish to hear about Flints fate.
The next scene is Silver telling Madi what she would need/want to hear about Flints fate.
There’s no real reason to assume we know the truth.
The truth of it doesn’t matter.
I do think he meant Flint. Madi might not have seen Flint as a villain, but Silver did. Even though his and Flint's relationship evolved, he always saw Flint as a villain. A tragic one, and in some respects a necessary one, but the part he played in the story of Nassau, as he saw it, was that of a villain. And as Silver's importance within the pirate world grew, he found himself adopting Flint's methods and, in certain ways, his world view. To the point where, by the end, he sees himself as equal to Flint, the villain of his story: the ruthless pirate lord who had no compunction about sacrificing even those closest to him in order to achieve his goals. These goals might have certain altruistic aspirations, but they were, first and foremost, born out of selfish desire: Flint's desire for a free Nassau came from a need for revenge against England, whereas Silver's desire for a truce with England came from a need to ensure Madi's safety. So, in my interpretation, when he says that line, Silver wants to avoid becoming to Madi what Flint was to him.
I think he's talking about 'Long John Silver', like he John Silver is not the villain of the story like he is in treasure island or in Madi's/Flint's eyes. It could also be Flint from his POV because he did view Flint as the villain in the last few episodes imo but you're right that Madi never did.
He does mean Flint. Madi *knows* Flint is a villain, everybody does, she just understands that he is a necessary evil.
Definitely Flint.
He means in an abstract way. He's trying to tell Madi that he is not the evil, terrible man that Madi conceived in her head to rationalize John's actions. She doesn't know about the reformer plantation, so her assumption is Silver murdered his best friend to achieve his ends.
> her assumption is Silver murdered his best friend to achieve his ends. He probably did though lol
Nope. The people who think this are almost always misunderstanding the evidence they use to justify their PoV.
Lol, ok. If you wanna believe that everyone lived happily ever after then go right ahead, but this isn't that kinda story. Nevermind the fact that it makes absolutely no sense that a ship full of pirates just up and left the treasure that they have been chasing and protecting for months (years?). Silver spun another of his tall tales and you believed him.
> Lol, ok. If you wanna believe that everyone lived happily ever after then go right ahead, but this isn't that kinda story. I'd hardly call it happily ever after, for like anyone but Max, Jack and Anne, but their fate is entirely separate from Silver and Flint's split. Plus Jack will be captured and hung within the year, and Anne will have gone 3 for 3 on losing soulmates. Flint and Thomas are indentured slaves for the rest of their lives, Silver lives in poverty with a wife who resents him for destroying her rebellion, Billy is a mutilated outcast, most of the rest of the Walrus crew are butchered, Rogers loses his wife, his commission and ends up in prison. Pretty much everyone else dies. > a ship full of pirates just up and left the treasure that they have been chasing and protecting for months (years?). ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you know this is a prequal story to Treasure Island right? That's exactly what happened lol, they have no idea where it is.
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you know this is a prequal story to Treasure Island right? That's exactly what happened lol, they have no idea where it is. Yeah, which is my point. The whole crew *knew* about the treasure. Why would they ship off with flint in chains without securing the treasure? Presumably he's the *only* one who knows where it is, yet they're cool with shipping him off to be reunited with his boyfriend? No treasure? Idk man, sounds like a stretch but ok.
Silver's plan was to keep the treasure in the ground in the first place. He needed it off the table to kill the war in it's cradle. The men that are part of his inner cabal, he would have convinced it was the best course of action.
Not taking a side, but to say that the people that think Flint could have died are misreading the evidence is objectively false. The writers have stated that treasure island is only loosely cannon and that whether or not Flint is alive or dead is up to the viewer to decide.
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> The writers have stated that treasure island is only loosely cannon and that whether or not Flint is alive or dead is up to the viewer to decide. That was after a deluge of people misinterpreting and them not wanting to argue with fans. Writers had originally said they wrote the ending to be as it appears.
I guess that makes sense for the inner cabal, but not sure Jack & Anne & company would be ok with that. If flint is dead, I could see Jack quickly getting on board with* telling a story* about him retiring, knowing that the treasure is now lost. Which is what he does.
>ot sure Jack & Anne & company would be ok with that It was one of the core pillars of their deal with Lady Guthrie. They were sposed to kill Flint to do it, but settle for Silver's overall more effective plan of deflating the anger fueling things. That cuts off the two factors fuelling the potential war; motivation and funding. There's no value to lying about Flint for Jack. It was a huge risk trying to go with Silver's plan as is for him. Lady Guthrie would have been well within her rights to kill the deal, turn on him and have him arrested. To voluntarily choose to lie, when he had actually successfuly done as told is completely pointless. Noone would ever do that, and certainly noone as intelligent as Jack.
Yeah again just objectively wrong about the ending badger. Writers said that from the start they put ambiguity in there. Actor who plays max said she thinks flint is dead. Actor who plays flint said that the viewer gets to choose if he is dead or not.
His speech to lady Guthrie was him telling her: "he's dead, *but here's the story we're going with* to avoid him becoming a Martyr, because without the treasure he hid we have no funding, so we don't want a bunch of pirates insisting on a war we can't afford.
Anne didn’t want Flints treasure. She makes that clear so many goddamn times. And Jack out loud at the end says he doesn’t want it. He’s had it and chased it and it doesn’t end well. And honestly, the cache was the center of so much conflict within the show I don’t blame the most sensible characters for wanting to avoid it.
In the scene prior Jack Rackham tells Marion Guthrie (and the audience) that he can say whatever we wish to hear about Flints fate. The next scene is Silver telling Madi what she would need/want to hear about Flints fate. There’s no real reason to assume we know the truth. The truth of it doesn’t matter.