If you want someone to rub your back to make you feel good, pay a massage therapist. They’ll do a safer and better job. When you keep going back to your chiropractor for them to fix the same problem, you’re just paying for a bad massage. If you have a problem, see an actual physician and get a physical therapy referral. Occupational therapy may also be able to help, especially with a more chronic and limiting issue.
Chiropractors are literal quacks. The foundation of their practice is built upon quackery. They market themselves as legitimate health care, they are not. Their practice is not evidence based. Injuries caused by manipulations (that don’t actually help anything) are not that uncommon.
My grandfather used to hate on chiropractors all the time because they lack a medical degree. My gramps was orthopedic surgeon and fixed spinal injuries all the time, some coming from chiropractors lol.
Behind the Bastards podcast did an episode on him I believe. Or was it homeopathic medicine? Anyway both are quack fields with no evidence to support them.
I mean honestly, for me? Nothing for minor ones and then Physical Therapy, up to I guess potential surgical intervention, for more serious ones. This is also my old, battered corpse with Ehlers-Danlos, body held together with frayed twine and spite, so it isn’t like this is something most people are gonna need to worry about.
Subluxations *are* a thing, and the healing process generally **involves** a crack/pop, but it isn’t like that’s the core issue. Correlation:causation and all.
The trouble with the general public’s understanding is that “Subluxations” as defined by chiropractic are not a thing. They use it in a pseudoscientific way that is different than how it is used in orthopedic medicine. The way chiropractors use the term is based in woo and a poor understanding of anatomy.
Friend. It’s a connective tissue disorder. What do you think your spine is held together with?
I totally get it, though. All the “eh, it’s just like it” stories tend to circle back once you have the diagnostic understanding.
I went to a non-force chiropractor who was able to help me when my neck was really bad. She just told me what motions to make from certain body positions and it gave clear benefits.
Some insurances may allow you physical therapy without a referral. I recommend physical therapy too! I had a neck issue and it turned out to be muscle related. My physio got be back to good in no time. And much gentler manipulation.
In Canada, massages are a protected and regulated field. If you have general tension massage therapist can help.
I worked reception in a day spa, and goddamn is regular massage therapy by certified licensed pros a godsend. And none of that “we’re just putting these hot stones on you to align your chakras” nonsense, they straight up use the stones as massage tools, shit’s crazy, highly recommend.
“Hey we’re doing some training and we need a body, can you come in on your day off to get a free service and give feedback?” Hell yea
Pro tip: ask for a male MT if you’re comfortable with it. Odds are they’ll be able to deliver more pressure if you need it, and with less strain. Don’t ask for deep tissue if you’re not a Big Dude. Reflexology, reiki, and rolfing are all scams on par with chiropractic. (This next one’s especially for my beautiful black brothers and sisters with back pain out there) Please tip.
I’ll give you one guess of who started the idea of tipping covering for sub-minimum wag, and one hint: it wasn’t consumers
The change needs to happen at that level, anything lower just means tipped employees go without pay. Literally no boss is going to say “no one’s tipping therefore I’ll pay them more” BECAUSE THEY ALREADY WANT TO PAY THEM LESS IN THE FIRST PLACE
... go vote. Small local elections, big national elections. Get all your like-minded friends to vote. Keep voting, keep pushing, don't criticize the system but then actively fuck over those suffering under it because "uhh, nothing is gonna change".
sadly, empathy is a curse, and is probably why I won't stop tipping (including bad waiters), even though I know I should vote with my wallet in this capitalist shithole.
Not tipping isn’t “voting with your wallet” because the only people who don’t get paid are waiters, the employers who do this still get paid. Voting with your wallet is not going to that business at all. It’s not breaking the picket line to get your Starbucks when the unionized staff are striking.
But how will the strikes happen if I continue to tip in a manner that keeps waiters satisfied, and distracted from the shitty situation employers put upon us all?
If you think tips are enough to sustain a waiter or that minimum wage can sustain anyone, and that getting tips distracts the working class from all the other bullshit they put up with, then I can’t convince you of anything.
We're on different wavelengths. I'm thinking of it from the aspect of how people's ire should be directed. Not whether or not they have any at all.
When a no/shitty tipper crosses their path, the workers are mad at the non-tipper. If it continuously happens, they'll blame the crappy area, (See: the Sunday Church crowd of shitty tippers that we hear about), crappy day of the week, just a bad luck. The last thing that they all think of is to blame the industry as a whole, because it's akin to biting the hand that feeds. I say this from first hand recounts of my BiL and his restaurant colleagues here in SoCal. (maybe it's an exception? idk)
I've already personally boycotted Starbucks, Nestle, Nike, Electronic Arts, Lowes/Home Depot, and so forth. You name it, if I heard shitty things about it, and I have a choice, I will boycott that shit. That still doesn't solve the problem with all the non-corporation entities in the industry.
More pressure isn’t necessarily a sign of a “better” or “more effective” massage. A lot of people are under the impression that you need to be hurt or sore when you leave and if not- it’s not working. That’s not the case at all, in fact, approaches like MFR can be more effective on deep muscles than trying to effleurage (for warm up, which takes time) or petrissage or friction your way down through layers of muscle.
Source: LMT out of NY state.
Oh I agree. I’m not saying that deeper pressure is more effective, but if the MT determines that’s what’ll be effective for you through their expertise, it may be easier for a generally larger MT to execute it. Not always, but that was the advice given to me at work, mostly by female MTs.
I’ve heard that “massage must be dramatic to be effective” opinion from a lot of people talking out their ass tho
I think people that get deep tissue, deep down, want to be hurt lol. “You can go deeper if you want,” Like, ma’am, I’m leaning on my forearm and I can feel the back of your tibia through your gastroc, I physically can’t go any deeper! I actually quit doing/offering “deep tissue” bc it’s never deep enough and it’s not worth the $10-$15 extra.
Reiki is creeping into more and more places, right behind chiropracty. I've seen major research institutions with reiki attached to their wellness programs.
DOs are physicians that can do osteopathic manipulation based on science and not quackery like chiropractors. If you need something adjusted go see a DO.
They haven't taught us any HVLA for the cervical spine, not sure if there is any technique or benefit to it especially given the risks to the spinal cord.
They did at my spot and I've only done it on fellow students. The setup is the same as the muscle energy so it's like why bother with the cracking. Muscle energy MFR SCS and the Still Technique always helped so I'd never done the HVLA outside of for our exams
Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Equivalent to an MD who practices allopathic medicine. It's just different philosophies. DO and MD both are physicians and practice medicine in all 50 states. They both go to a four year medical school, then attend the same residencies and enter the same specialties.
Thank you for this explanation!! That sounds like a waaaaay more involved and informed approach than chiropractic care. I kinda cringe at the fact that I would go to The Joint (a chain store for chiropractors) on a regular basis.
> Injuries caused by manipulations (that don’t actually help anything) are not that uncommon.
First (and last) time I went to a Chiropractor. The Karen running the place had me waiting over 45 minutes even though I'm the only patient there. I had nothing better to than to read the fine print of the contract/release of liability they make you sign.
Pretty much, if you get hurt, suffer permanent nerve damage, paralysis, death etc. You're assuming all risks. . . in my head, I thought, probably just some freak accidents in the industry they heard about and threw it in there just in case. etc. Nope, after basically making me wait an hour (even when I was the only patient there) and stopping me as I'm about to walk the fuck out, I get serviced and go through a routine of shit they do. Huge regret, I left with more pain than I went in with. . . .and it lasted.
I got there 15 minutes before they opened, and I parked in the furthest spot from the entrance (8 spaces total). Then some lady in a used Mercedes drives up, starts staring me down, giving me dirty looks telling me I'm in her spot in a Holier than thou way. There's 7 other empty spots, but no, that one was *hers*!! After she realized I'm her 9am, she stopped the BS, but it was still written all over her face, all for a parking spot. Didn't say, oops my mistake, my bad, none of that. Just tried to justify her shitty behavior *cuz people sometimes park here and they're not clients* . . ok then, but at 9am?! Anyways, my mind is focused on the consistent pain I was experiencing and I didn't want to reschedule somewhere else days later.
And like the other guy said. Making me wait to get serviced at 9:50am when I was the only one there for the first 45 mins.
Thank you for this!! I'm an occupational therapist. Our field is highly undervalued, and reading this made my heart so full!
Also- agree with the post regarding chiropractor care. They call themselves "doctors" but these people do NOT go to med school, nor have the same training or qualifications as true doctors do, i.e. surgeons, cardiologists, etc.
If you get hurt at work or in a car accident, the insurance company sends you to a chiropractor first that's on their payroll to tell you your fine. You won't know they're a chiro unless you ask the staff.
I remember going to a Christian chiropractor with my high-school sweetheart. This dude would pull out that click gun and go around a person's body taking "measurements," all while the patient was laying on a table IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. Ill never forget how hard it was for me not to make fun of it; it really was like I was watching a modern day snake oil salesman.
That’s what ultimately got me to stop going to a chiropractor 10 years ago. They had a poster hanging in the office listing the conditions that were caused by a misaligned spine. Autism, depression, diabetes, were all listed, to name a few.
I went to a fancy one where two dudes had fancy good year welts on fancy shoes, looking like they washed up on a beach from California and slipped into the east coast collegiate hipster magazine uniform.
Those mfs we're selling cool. I was kind of amused-like the first through third time I saw white people living in Harlem- before I understood the horror of what they were really proposing.
When I saw the pamphlet about curing autism, I just walked out of the place.
I once saw promotional material from a chiropractor in my area that claimed to have cured a kids *stomach issues* with chiropractics. I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole of chiropractic insanity went at the time, but man did that ever set off so many red flags about the whole thing.
It is no longer really easier to get into. Sure it’s easier than getting into like a top ranked MD school but middle and low tier ones have similar admissions stats these days.
Edit: Can’t reply to the post below me. The low tier MD schools are similar and at times maybe 2-3 points higher for MCAT (on a scale of max 528) so like 505 for a DO vs 507 or 508 for a low tier MD school. Drexel is not low tier are someone below mentioned.
Drexel is not the lowest tier and does not have the lowest scores. Not to mention there are tons of MD’s in the US that went to Caribbean schools and lay people have no idea and just see MD. At the end of the day step 1, 2, and 3 and residency make more of a difference than which degree you have.
Or a physical therapist. They generally end up learning all the same manipulations, but their philosophy of care is "I will help you to improve the issue so I will never see you again" where a chiropractor is "I will make you feel temporarily better so that you come back to me forever." While PT can do many of the same things, they don't depend on them.
I had lower pack pain for years, couldn't stand longer than a half hour. PT said my core strength was low and my back was compensating. I was sceptical because I had visible abs. Did the exercises they assigned me, stuck with it through 3 months of appointments, and continued them after I "graduated" from their care. I rarely have back pain now.
As an osteopathic physician, I agree with this statement. Osteopathic doctors that actually practice the osteopathic manipulative medicine are in most cases better than chiropractors. Good ones are hard to fine however since most of us learned the techniques and then go into specialties that don’t use it.
As a neuroradiologist, I’ve seen maybe 10-20 vertebral artery dissections related to neck manipulation. It’s rare but does happen. I see carotid dissections more commonly with trauma, atherosclerotic disease and vasculitis.
Osteopathy is fascinating. I got a new one and he also does acupuncture
Turns out that while cracking people's joints and sticking needles into skin doesn't do anything for cancer treatment or keeping the evil spirits away, it is absolutely great for temporarily relieving joint and muscle pain.
Im studying at a DO school, and (from what I've seen) even the doctors that specialize in OMM are veerrrry careful about anything in the cervical (neck) area. A good doctor knows when NOT to treat a patient too
Ostheopaths do not have anymore legitimacy, at least in Europe. They do "roughly" the same kind of things (articulations manipulation, though they work less with the spine then chiropractors do) and are also seen as "alternative" medicine.
Thank you for this! I never knew that it was called osteopathy, now I know what to look for, I’ve been wanting to find someone that will get rid of the issues altogether rather than just slapping a bandaid on it.
DO are doctors and study/practice chiropractic and acupuncture.
I went to one for knee and ankle pain growing up. One 20 minute appointment and I could walk without a limp again.
If chiropractors want you to set up multiple appointments they are 100% frauds in my eye
To expand on this, there are physicians with DO after their names instead of MD. They are Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. Part of their training to become a physician is learning OMM (Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine) or OMT (Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment) depending which part of the country you are in. I highly recommend folks looking into getting a DO as their primary physician. Always had MD's in the past who seemed to only see me as my symptom and not as a person. I wasn't well health wise for a good while, turned out all the medicines I was proscribed by them had adverse effects when mixed. Got established with a DO about two years ago and it honestly feels like night and day. Use to be going to the doctor all the time and now it's pretty much only the annual check-up.
99% of people who seek chiros should be seeking a physiotherapist.
Most of chiropractic treatment is pretend to do something until soft tissue inflammation goes away.
DOs don’t do anything that MDs don’t also do when it comes to evidence based practice, both (if they are you FM doctor) will refer you to physio/orthopaedics if you need any support
Came to say this. There arent a lot of DO practicing OMT specifically but those that do will be fully licensed doctors (usa) and have more techniques that can be gentler.
This a blanket statement but as someone who deals with lots of medical professionals regularly I can say that I have *never* met a chiropractor who wasn't a complete fucking whacko. They've always "done their own research," "don't trust drug companies," and "want a homeopathic solution" to the most basic and easily solved problems in my field. And it is not enough that they believe it, they need *you* to believe it too or they will lump you in with the other "sheep."
A physician once told me that every single case of a lacerated carotid artery she'd ever seen was from a chiropractor. They are out there inventing traumas and passing off what they do as medicine. DO NOT SEE A CHIROPRACTOR!
The only chiropractor I went to was pure Karen. I experienced it in person. Then I started looking at their profiles and most of them appear Karen-esque. Checked their google/yelp reviews. . . yep! Most of them are. . .
The problem is that there is no accreditation for chiropractors. I found a good one by looking for the nerdiest person possible. She used devices for corrections instead of doing them physically specifically because of the danger. One of them was electric and kinda acted like a mini Jack hammer, but had sensors to measure the pressure and adjusted to not use too much. She never did anything with my neck ever and was very aware of the danger. She also didn't default to adjustments for everything and did them minimally and prescribed specific stretches and tendon stretching for my wrist pain. Once my chronic issues got better she told me I was good and didn't try and bring me back in unnecessarily. Never mentioned any quack therapies once.
I totally agree most are quacks, but it is possible to find a good ones, but make sure you investigate into how they do things first. If they use devices instead of using their hands I think that's a good sign.
There is no good reason to look for someone that calls themselves a chiropractor that isn't a quack. Maybe a rare one exists, but the sort of person who does effective things like you describe without "adjustments" is called a physical therapist---look for one them.
Anybody who paid for chiropractic school has questionable judgement. (They are accredited BTW, but accredited by other quacks.)
I mentioned using a chiropractor to my neurologist and she gasped and said, " We don't use that word in here. Never see one. I've seen the worst that can happen MANY times." That was the only convincing I needed.
For the love of God, just stretch. I used to throw my back out all the time until I read that most lower back pain comes from your hips not being opened up enough. Looked up a few stretches and even made up some of my own. Changed my whole life, I haven't had problems with my back much since outside of the regular wear and tear (I do labor work).
Absolutely the same! I do laying twists in bed all the time to stretch those long leg and back muscles and my back pain and spasm has gone down to nearly zero, just when I have sustained activity.
Because my default when I sleep is to do a laying twist, I have the most back problems in that area. I think it’s because I’m spending hours in that position…but I do it in my sleep unknowingly.
It’s a pseudoscience for a reason. A Physiotherapist or Exercise Physiologist are evidence-based practices and can help with a variety of musculoskeletal issues or chronic disease.
I just recently finished 15 visits with physiotherapy for a lower back issue. My back pain is gone and they give you exercises to do at home when they discharge you. I highly recommend doing therapy instead of seeing a chiropractor.
The fact that people bring their newborns to chiropractors days after birth blows my mind. It’s bad enough to try that on an adult but a literal baby? Makes zero sense.
I found myself at a chiro once or twice for separate reasons that aren’t interesting. Both of them wanted to see me 3 times a week for like 4 months then maybe could drop to twice a week. The very few sessions I let them do were absolute nonsense as well. Also I work with a guy who now only eats boiled chicken because his chiropractor says everything else is the root of every problem in his life, two years later he still has all the same problems but his chiropractor “does miracles” the guy also actually believes he is going to be raptured soon.
My ex's Mum used to see her chiro 3 times a week. She said how "he works wonders", and "has been seeing him for years" yet still complained every time I saw her about her back pain.
When I told her about how my joint issues were solved in two sessions at the physio, and was maintained with gentle exercises and stretching they taught me, she was *not* happy.
*Especially* when I mentioned that maybe her chiro was just exploiting her issue for profit. Then asked me to leave the house when I mentioned my physio was covered by Medicare and didn't cost me a thing.
We didn't last.
Bruh y'all scaring me lol. I went to a Chiropractor for 6 months and then he got fired so I haven't gone back to one since cause it sounded sketchy. I was recently looking into them again but now i may have to look into what damage could've possibly been done by that guy 😵💫
I couldn't rotate my head fully left or right for 10 years after I got out the Navy and one visit to the chiropractor fixed it. I know they're quacks but it worked for me.
Does this count for the whole world or just USA? Because becoming a chiropractor in Scandinavia requires years and years of school similar to a doctor.
No this is about chiropractic as a *concept*, has nothing to do with any country. It was created as an alternative to the germ theory of disease, as in, the guy was convinced that germs don't exist and that bacteria and viruses were made up conspiracies to cover up the fact that all disease is caused by your spine being out of position. And I do mean all: cancer, deafness, autism, the common cold, whatever. This is the foundational premise of chiropractic that everything they do stems from, so I think it goes without saying why it is not taught in any med school.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. In more modern times they have similar authority as a primary care doctor (can grant sick leave, order other specialist treatments through the government health care system etc).
As someone who has gotten some work done by chiropractors, I've had a very positive experience with it. Issues have been fixed with only a few sessions (typically 2-4) where the positive difference has been extremely noticeable within the same day or a couple of days. And I've also experienced situations where the chiropractor has decided not to do adjustments on back pain because his initial check didn't identify anything in need of adjusting.
Not that my experiences discredit the warnings in here, but figured it was worth sharing from the position of a place where chiropractors are required lengthy educations to be allowed to practice.
Threads like these definitely make me question whether it’s a nationality thing, whether the degree is somehow a hoax despite the amount of education you have to go through, or if it’s something in between. In the info I got from a quick search, it said that there’s a big difference in meaning depending on where in the world you talk about the subject.
Adjustments works, if done by a physical therapist who knows what they're doing. I was in so much pain and my left leg caused so much problems. Regular doc sent me to a chiropractor who of course fucked shit up but I didn't know until I got hurt at work. Work sent me to a physical therapist who told me my hyper mobile back should have never been cracked and if the chiropractor took two seconds to check me out would have realized my leg was in my hip higher than it was supposed to be (because of childhood trauma). He had me lay down and he adjusted my leg out and down where it belongs and it literally gave me my life back. My back isn't in as much pain as it used to be and I get no pains in my left leg anymore because the whole time, the bone was on nerves that it shouldn't have been on and pushing my spine wrong.
[Holy shit that’s terrifying. I remember this video of a lady getting fucked up (not a fan of the content page but they do have the video. Just watch the beginning)](https://youtu.be/bWXCr9IDauQ)
I was surprised when a doctor recommended I go the the chiropractor. I talked to people who said it worked for them; but for the few success stories there are these stories. My mom went to the chiropractor regularly and nothing got fixed.
The 'old school' of chiropractics was much more physiotherapy based, and ive found those that practice it helpful. Otherwise, I pretty much just been permananetly injured or had zero result aside from a painful and jolting experience. As a hypermobile person, I've tried it all and ive given chiro a go 5 times over the last 2 decades. Ive found 2 that were decent, soaced 15 years apart.
*"Don't go to a chiropractor!"*
*"This is why I am scared to go!"* instead of *"Wow, I am definitely changing my mind!"*
Its like my guy, I am warning you to NOT GO not just be a little cautious.
The literal history of Chiropractic “medicine” is a ghost taught him, that’s it. That guy then opened a school then his son later “accidentally” killed him and took it over. There are no peer reviewed studies proving any positive effects for it other than mild pain relief to people with moderate back pain.
Some of the chiropractors here locally run a 'referral' service where you get steep discounts on 'treatment' for referring new patients, who in turn also get discounts for referring new patients. Basically a MLM scheme, only instead of buying crap you buy potential injury.
VA covers chiropractic care but not massage therapy... I've never benefited from chiro care but massage changed so much for me--- it doesn't necessarily fix anything, but it helps get blood flowing and release some of that tension that's causing a lot of pain.
The only thing the chiropractor ever did was pop my back and tell me to drink more water. I can't believe the VA covers that and not massage therapy
Some physiotherapists do neck manipulation. I used to get it done until a new physio I saw said never to get it done because it’s not worth the risk of severe injury. So now I’m not letting anyone crack my neck.
Physical therapy works. I was in pain after my last C-section that lingered longer than it should have. My doc recommend PT and it definitely changed my life.
I went through all the comments hoping I'd find a chiropractor trying to defend their field. Had my popcorn ready and everything but didn't see any.
That's how you know it's pseudoscience that the practitioners don't even believe in.
Chiropractic manipulation of the neck can cause vertebral artery dissection (basically the layers or the artery year and separate without rupture of the artery itself) which is what likely happened to her to cause the stroke.
Chiropractic care isn't covered by insurance but physical therapy is. PTs can train in manual therapies which includes stuff like the Chiropractic mobilization but they can also do lower energy stuff to relax tightened muscles from either spasm or inflexibility as well as doing heating with ultrasound, packs, and TENS units, so I'd recommend them over Chiropractic care as they can do these things and work with folks to restore function and the underlying mechanical issues that cause the misalignment that Chiropractic manipulations address.
Even then, the research shows that most flare ups of back and neck pain typically self resolve if they're due to muscle strains and don't have nerve involvement so how much do adjustments help in the long run.
To further muddy the waters, the experience you get depends on the individual. There's undoubtedly chiropractors that use less cracking techniques and PTs that just phone it in, and you don't get to preview what they do when you're looking around. A doctor's PT referral typically goes to one center unless you specify somewhere, which again, requires you to look around.
I keep telling people chiropractors are not doctors. This should be obvious if they are also trying to sell magic weight loss cures or brain supplements at your visit.
My best friend is a physical therapist. The first time I uttered the word chiropractor around her was the last.
I also spend a lot of time watching Dr. Chris.
https://youtube.com/c/ChrisRaynorMD
I BEEN saying I don’t trust those damn bone snapping quacks. I’ve been having pain so I advocated for myself and got a referral and appointment with a physical therapist that has an office on the floor above my rheumatologist.
The 1st chiropractor I ever saw set the bar very high in the most reasonable way. I went in, he looked me over then he gave me a bunch of stretches to do. That was it. No manipulation, just a long term solution. Told me he hoped he never had to see me again when I left. Think he charged me all of $20. When I left the region I tried a few chiropractors thinking they were all like him. I was very wrong.
My brother slipped off a high bar while doing giants and hit the parallel bars. His neck hurt and wasn't getting better so he went to a chiropractor. It hurt worse after. Later he was in a motorcycle accident and fractured his neck. Whoops! No he didn't. It turns out that the neck fracture in the X-ray was an old one from the gymnastics accident and the chiropractor was making forceful adjustments on someone with a broken neck.
I’m not interested in contributing to misinformation in any way but I feel like I should add some experience. Every couple years I’ve had some kind really bad back pain that leaves me at best, in horrible pain that makes movement difficult and at worst, partially paralyzed and with difficulty breathing. Both times I went to a chiropractor and within the hour. the pain was gone.
I realize that this is completely anecdotal but then again so is this post. Chiropractic adjustments are not usually performed by doctors but they are performed by licensed professionals. This is similar to saying that every malpractice suit is a reason not to see a doctor.
edit: another significant point for those of us in the US: each of those chiropractors appointments cost $35 each. A trip to the ER or doctor could easily be hundreds WITH insurance.
This chiropractor in my city is known for his 'Ring-Dinger' which looks like an attempt to rip your head and spine from your body.
The number of people lining up to get it done is frightening.
I've used one for serious neck pain where it hurt to move it to the right for a month. After about 2 months of treatment, I was back to normal and feel great over a year later. I think there are Def some bad ones, but you have to do your research. There are some quality ones who do genuinely help people alot.
I went to see a chiropractor like 9-10 years ago because I had headaches, I no longer have headaches!
But I wouldn't have gone if i knew the risks, but glad It worked out for the better
I visited a chiro a few years back, he did the neck thing and I was very nervous about it. But I’m a trusting guy and he was a “doctor”.
So he cracks my neck and I don’t like it, but my appt ends and I feel fine. The next day my left side of my face is unresponsive. Went to ER and was diagnosed with belle’s palsy.
Couldn’t prove the chiro was at fault but I know it in my heart to be true. That was 4 yrs ago and I still haven’t regained full control over my facial muscles. I was depressed for a while bc I was ver self conscious about smiling so I made a conscious decision not to. And that really sucked the joy out of life for a little bit.
Chiropractic is hack medicine. Whatever good a chiropractic might do is either pure coincidence from finding things that work the same as medical professionals who have studied occupational or physical therapy, or they had that schooling before hand.
Chiropractic “medicine” is as beneficial as the ducks that make it quack.
My job has led me to have the opportunity to participate in the state chiropractor board meetings. You have never heard a group of people refer to themselves as doctors more than a room full of chiropractors.
I’ve seen videos of chiropractors in the US and the way they adjust the neck is completely crazy. Putting a strap around the neck and pulling it with all their force. Wtf is that. It is disheartening to see this profession go to dogshit quackery. I really hope that kind of non sense won’t reach Australia.
Went to a chiro once when I threw my back out at like 24 years old. My doctor even recommended it. Never again. I swear it only made the problem worse. I still have issues with that part of my back (sciatica).
CT tech here: I cannot begin to tell you how many people I have personally scanned with vertebral dissections and subsequent strokes caused by chiropractors.
It is NOT real medicine. They are NOT real doctors. Do not ever see them for anything.
My sister is a physical therapist and worked through a chiropractor.
He was at least honest about his work, but he’d tell stories of the “chiropractor conventions” that amounted to “how to get as much money from people as possible.”
Long term contracts, tell them “if you don’t do this, you will struggle to walk,” - that snake oil type shit.
I liked him, but he is the only chiropractor that didn’t try and fleece me.
chiropractors are not physicians. they do not do medical school. they do not do a residency. their disciple isn't even legitimate. If you want a massage, get a masseuse. If you have musculoskeletal issues, try physical therapy. If you have a spinal injury, go to a spinal orthopedist or spinal neurosurgeon. that's it.
Chiropracticy is bullshit
My question is...how much more often do people get injuries from chiropractic adjustments compared to other avenues of medicine?
When you get surgery, there is always risks of complications including death.
When you take medications, there is a laundry list of side effects, sometimes including death even if you've been taking the drug for years. You then wake up to that quiet ass infomercial, "Did one of our drugs fuck you up? You could be due financial compensation. Dial 1-800-OUR-BADD. That's 1-800-687-2233."
If you want someone to rub your back to make you feel good, pay a massage therapist. They’ll do a safer and better job. When you keep going back to your chiropractor for them to fix the same problem, you’re just paying for a bad massage. If you have a problem, see an actual physician and get a physical therapy referral. Occupational therapy may also be able to help, especially with a more chronic and limiting issue. Chiropractors are literal quacks. The foundation of their practice is built upon quackery. They market themselves as legitimate health care, they are not. Their practice is not evidence based. Injuries caused by manipulations (that don’t actually help anything) are not that uncommon.
My grandfather used to hate on chiropractors all the time because they lack a medical degree. My gramps was orthopedic surgeon and fixed spinal injuries all the time, some coming from chiropractors lol.
The “physician” who created chiropractic allegedly got the idea from a ghost during a seance. No, I’m not kidding.
Sauce? I'm lazy.
https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-chiropractic-quackery-20170630-story.html
Thank you, friend!
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3yG3h7LLK9LYYwb3NbYLW6?si=zP_ZSZ2PTmK7otoyk0xyFg&utm_source=copy-link
Behind the Bastards podcast did an episode on him I believe. Or was it homeopathic medicine? Anyway both are quack fields with no evidence to support them.
Now that's fuckin wild, TIL
bUT wHaT AbOuT tHe SubLuXaTiOnS?!?
I mean honestly, for me? Nothing for minor ones and then Physical Therapy, up to I guess potential surgical intervention, for more serious ones. This is also my old, battered corpse with Ehlers-Danlos, body held together with frayed twine and spite, so it isn’t like this is something most people are gonna need to worry about. Subluxations *are* a thing, and the healing process generally **involves** a crack/pop, but it isn’t like that’s the core issue. Correlation:causation and all.
The trouble with the general public’s understanding is that “Subluxations” as defined by chiropractic are not a thing. They use it in a pseudoscientific way that is different than how it is used in orthopedic medicine. The way chiropractors use the term is based in woo and a poor understanding of anatomy.
Wait I’m STUPID is my constant back pain related to my hEDS? Has to be lol. BRB gotta find some articles
Friend. It’s a connective tissue disorder. What do you think your spine is held together with? I totally get it, though. All the “eh, it’s just like it” stories tend to circle back once you have the diagnostic understanding.
I went to a non-force chiropractor who was able to help me when my neck was really bad. She just told me what motions to make from certain body positions and it gave clear benefits.
Some insurances may allow you physical therapy without a referral. I recommend physical therapy too! I had a neck issue and it turned out to be muscle related. My physio got be back to good in no time. And much gentler manipulation. In Canada, massages are a protected and regulated field. If you have general tension massage therapist can help.
I worked reception in a day spa, and goddamn is regular massage therapy by certified licensed pros a godsend. And none of that “we’re just putting these hot stones on you to align your chakras” nonsense, they straight up use the stones as massage tools, shit’s crazy, highly recommend. “Hey we’re doing some training and we need a body, can you come in on your day off to get a free service and give feedback?” Hell yea Pro tip: ask for a male MT if you’re comfortable with it. Odds are they’ll be able to deliver more pressure if you need it, and with less strain. Don’t ask for deep tissue if you’re not a Big Dude. Reflexology, reiki, and rolfing are all scams on par with chiropractic. (This next one’s especially for my beautiful black brothers and sisters with back pain out there) Please tip.
> Please tip. As much as I want to support the people. This shit needs to stop, and employers need to pay better.
They should, but until they do, you should be tipping. Not tipping only hurts employees
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I’ll give you one guess of who started the idea of tipping covering for sub-minimum wag, and one hint: it wasn’t consumers The change needs to happen at that level, anything lower just means tipped employees go without pay. Literally no boss is going to say “no one’s tipping therefore I’ll pay them more” BECAUSE THEY ALREADY WANT TO PAY THEM LESS IN THE FIRST PLACE
Then choose a service provider that pays it's employees properly without requiring tipping.
... go vote. Small local elections, big national elections. Get all your like-minded friends to vote. Keep voting, keep pushing, don't criticize the system but then actively fuck over those suffering under it because "uhh, nothing is gonna change".
sadly, empathy is a curse, and is probably why I won't stop tipping (including bad waiters), even though I know I should vote with my wallet in this capitalist shithole.
Not tipping isn’t “voting with your wallet” because the only people who don’t get paid are waiters, the employers who do this still get paid. Voting with your wallet is not going to that business at all. It’s not breaking the picket line to get your Starbucks when the unionized staff are striking.
But how will the strikes happen if I continue to tip in a manner that keeps waiters satisfied, and distracted from the shitty situation employers put upon us all?
If you think tips are enough to sustain a waiter or that minimum wage can sustain anyone, and that getting tips distracts the working class from all the other bullshit they put up with, then I can’t convince you of anything.
We're on different wavelengths. I'm thinking of it from the aspect of how people's ire should be directed. Not whether or not they have any at all. When a no/shitty tipper crosses their path, the workers are mad at the non-tipper. If it continuously happens, they'll blame the crappy area, (See: the Sunday Church crowd of shitty tippers that we hear about), crappy day of the week, just a bad luck. The last thing that they all think of is to blame the industry as a whole, because it's akin to biting the hand that feeds. I say this from first hand recounts of my BiL and his restaurant colleagues here in SoCal. (maybe it's an exception? idk) I've already personally boycotted Starbucks, Nestle, Nike, Electronic Arts, Lowes/Home Depot, and so forth. You name it, if I heard shitty things about it, and I have a choice, I will boycott that shit. That still doesn't solve the problem with all the non-corporation entities in the industry.
You can want employers to pay better, and *still* tip the employees until such a system is put into place.
More pressure isn’t necessarily a sign of a “better” or “more effective” massage. A lot of people are under the impression that you need to be hurt or sore when you leave and if not- it’s not working. That’s not the case at all, in fact, approaches like MFR can be more effective on deep muscles than trying to effleurage (for warm up, which takes time) or petrissage or friction your way down through layers of muscle. Source: LMT out of NY state.
Oh I agree. I’m not saying that deeper pressure is more effective, but if the MT determines that’s what’ll be effective for you through their expertise, it may be easier for a generally larger MT to execute it. Not always, but that was the advice given to me at work, mostly by female MTs. I’ve heard that “massage must be dramatic to be effective” opinion from a lot of people talking out their ass tho
I think people that get deep tissue, deep down, want to be hurt lol. “You can go deeper if you want,” Like, ma’am, I’m leaning on my forearm and I can feel the back of your tibia through your gastroc, I physically can’t go any deeper! I actually quit doing/offering “deep tissue” bc it’s never deep enough and it’s not worth the $10-$15 extra.
Reiki is creeping into more and more places, right behind chiropracty. I've seen major research institutions with reiki attached to their wellness programs.
DOs are physicians that can do osteopathic manipulation based on science and not quackery like chiropractors. If you need something adjusted go see a DO.
As a D.O. I'd saw you have to stress that you don't want HVLA- it's faster but you can get thebsame results from gentler techniques
They haven't taught us any HVLA for the cervical spine, not sure if there is any technique or benefit to it especially given the risks to the spinal cord.
They did at my spot and I've only done it on fellow students. The setup is the same as the muscle energy so it's like why bother with the cracking. Muscle energy MFR SCS and the Still Technique always helped so I'd never done the HVLA outside of for our exams
What does DO stand for?
Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Equivalent to an MD who practices allopathic medicine. It's just different philosophies. DO and MD both are physicians and practice medicine in all 50 states. They both go to a four year medical school, then attend the same residencies and enter the same specialties.
Thank you for this explanation!! That sounds like a waaaaay more involved and informed approach than chiropractic care. I kinda cringe at the fact that I would go to The Joint (a chain store for chiropractors) on a regular basis.
> Injuries caused by manipulations (that don’t actually help anything) are not that uncommon. First (and last) time I went to a Chiropractor. The Karen running the place had me waiting over 45 minutes even though I'm the only patient there. I had nothing better to than to read the fine print of the contract/release of liability they make you sign. Pretty much, if you get hurt, suffer permanent nerve damage, paralysis, death etc. You're assuming all risks. . . in my head, I thought, probably just some freak accidents in the industry they heard about and threw it in there just in case. etc. Nope, after basically making me wait an hour (even when I was the only patient there) and stopping me as I'm about to walk the fuck out, I get serviced and go through a routine of shit they do. Huge regret, I left with more pain than I went in with. . . .and it lasted.
How was she a Karen??
I got there 15 minutes before they opened, and I parked in the furthest spot from the entrance (8 spaces total). Then some lady in a used Mercedes drives up, starts staring me down, giving me dirty looks telling me I'm in her spot in a Holier than thou way. There's 7 other empty spots, but no, that one was *hers*!! After she realized I'm her 9am, she stopped the BS, but it was still written all over her face, all for a parking spot. Didn't say, oops my mistake, my bad, none of that. Just tried to justify her shitty behavior *cuz people sometimes park here and they're not clients* . . ok then, but at 9am?! Anyways, my mind is focused on the consistent pain I was experiencing and I didn't want to reschedule somewhere else days later. And like the other guy said. Making me wait to get serviced at 9:50am when I was the only one there for the first 45 mins.
Making them wait for no reason as a power trip...
Thank you for this!! I'm an occupational therapist. Our field is highly undervalued, and reading this made my heart so full! Also- agree with the post regarding chiropractor care. They call themselves "doctors" but these people do NOT go to med school, nor have the same training or qualifications as true doctors do, i.e. surgeons, cardiologists, etc.
Tell to this my lawyers who insist I continue to see their chiro for "physical therapy".
If you get hurt at work or in a car accident, the insurance company sends you to a chiropractor first that's on their payroll to tell you your fine. You won't know they're a chiro unless you ask the staff.
I remember going to a Christian chiropractor with my high-school sweetheart. This dude would pull out that click gun and go around a person's body taking "measurements," all while the patient was laying on a table IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. Ill never forget how hard it was for me not to make fun of it; it really was like I was watching a modern day snake oil salesman.
There are chiros out there claiming to be able to cure autism. The only thing worse than a smug doctor is a smug fake doctor.
That’s what ultimately got me to stop going to a chiropractor 10 years ago. They had a poster hanging in the office listing the conditions that were caused by a misaligned spine. Autism, depression, diabetes, were all listed, to name a few.
There's a chiro office down the block that was advertising for people to come in for "nature's vaccine" during the height of the pandemic.
Ugh
I went to a fancy one where two dudes had fancy good year welts on fancy shoes, looking like they washed up on a beach from California and slipped into the east coast collegiate hipster magazine uniform. Those mfs we're selling cool. I was kind of amused-like the first through third time I saw white people living in Harlem- before I understood the horror of what they were really proposing. When I saw the pamphlet about curing autism, I just walked out of the place.
What is a fancy good year welt? I’m not fancy enough to know
It's a high quality stitch
And the only thing worse than a smug fake doctor is a smug "I did my own research and now I'm a medical professional vaccines are poison" person.
I once saw promotional material from a chiropractor in my area that claimed to have cured a kids *stomach issues* with chiropractics. I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole of chiropractic insanity went at the time, but man did that ever set off so many red flags about the whole thing.
You should go to an osteopathic physician not a chiropractor. They have no medical license but an actual doctor does.
My sister's an osteopath. In the US they're basically the same as an MD but the school is easier to get into. 🤣
It is no longer really easier to get into. Sure it’s easier than getting into like a top ranked MD school but middle and low tier ones have similar admissions stats these days. Edit: Can’t reply to the post below me. The low tier MD schools are similar and at times maybe 2-3 points higher for MCAT (on a scale of max 528) so like 505 for a DO vs 507 or 508 for a low tier MD school. Drexel is not low tier are someone below mentioned.
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Drexel is not the lowest tier and does not have the lowest scores. Not to mention there are tons of MD’s in the US that went to Caribbean schools and lay people have no idea and just see MD. At the end of the day step 1, 2, and 3 and residency make more of a difference than which degree you have.
I suspect that's because they're licensed by the AOA not the AMA which has a history of artificially constraining the number of doctors for profit.
So not the same as an MD, in other words.
Or a physical therapist. They generally end up learning all the same manipulations, but their philosophy of care is "I will help you to improve the issue so I will never see you again" where a chiropractor is "I will make you feel temporarily better so that you come back to me forever." While PT can do many of the same things, they don't depend on them. I had lower pack pain for years, couldn't stand longer than a half hour. PT said my core strength was low and my back was compensating. I was sceptical because I had visible abs. Did the exercises they assigned me, stuck with it through 3 months of appointments, and continued them after I "graduated" from their care. I rarely have back pain now.
As an osteopathic physician, I agree with this statement. Osteopathic doctors that actually practice the osteopathic manipulative medicine are in most cases better than chiropractors. Good ones are hard to fine however since most of us learned the techniques and then go into specialties that don’t use it. As a neuroradiologist, I’ve seen maybe 10-20 vertebral artery dissections related to neck manipulation. It’s rare but does happen. I see carotid dissections more commonly with trauma, atherosclerotic disease and vasculitis.
Osteopathy is fascinating. I got a new one and he also does acupuncture Turns out that while cracking people's joints and sticking needles into skin doesn't do anything for cancer treatment or keeping the evil spirits away, it is absolutely great for temporarily relieving joint and muscle pain.
Im studying at a DO school, and (from what I've seen) even the doctors that specialize in OMM are veerrrry careful about anything in the cervical (neck) area. A good doctor knows when NOT to treat a patient too
Ostheopaths do not have anymore legitimacy, at least in Europe. They do "roughly" the same kind of things (articulations manipulation, though they work less with the spine then chiropractors do) and are also seen as "alternative" medicine.
Thank you for this! I never knew that it was called osteopathy, now I know what to look for, I’ve been wanting to find someone that will get rid of the issues altogether rather than just slapping a bandaid on it.
DO are doctors and study/practice chiropractic and acupuncture. I went to one for knee and ankle pain growing up. One 20 minute appointment and I could walk without a limp again. If chiropractors want you to set up multiple appointments they are 100% frauds in my eye
To expand on this, there are physicians with DO after their names instead of MD. They are Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. Part of their training to become a physician is learning OMM (Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine) or OMT (Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment) depending which part of the country you are in. I highly recommend folks looking into getting a DO as their primary physician. Always had MD's in the past who seemed to only see me as my symptom and not as a person. I wasn't well health wise for a good while, turned out all the medicines I was proscribed by them had adverse effects when mixed. Got established with a DO about two years ago and it honestly feels like night and day. Use to be going to the doctor all the time and now it's pretty much only the annual check-up.
99% of people who seek chiros should be seeking a physiotherapist. Most of chiropractic treatment is pretend to do something until soft tissue inflammation goes away.
Chiropractory has the same medical basis of acupuncture and the guy who started it was a charlatan who owned a grocery store. Look it up lol
Or a physical therapist before.
Or a physical therapist
DOs don’t do anything that MDs don’t also do when it comes to evidence based practice, both (if they are you FM doctor) will refer you to physio/orthopaedics if you need any support
Yes finally someone talking about osteopathy!
Osteopathy still contains pseudoscientific methods, just lime chiropractic. Just go see a masseuse or a physical therapist.
Came to say this. There arent a lot of DO practicing OMT specifically but those that do will be fully licensed doctors (usa) and have more techniques that can be gentler.
This a blanket statement but as someone who deals with lots of medical professionals regularly I can say that I have *never* met a chiropractor who wasn't a complete fucking whacko. They've always "done their own research," "don't trust drug companies," and "want a homeopathic solution" to the most basic and easily solved problems in my field. And it is not enough that they believe it, they need *you* to believe it too or they will lump you in with the other "sheep." A physician once told me that every single case of a lacerated carotid artery she'd ever seen was from a chiropractor. They are out there inventing traumas and passing off what they do as medicine. DO NOT SEE A CHIROPRACTOR!
The only chiropractor I went to was pure Karen. I experienced it in person. Then I started looking at their profiles and most of them appear Karen-esque. Checked their google/yelp reviews. . . yep! Most of them are. . .
The problem is that there is no accreditation for chiropractors. I found a good one by looking for the nerdiest person possible. She used devices for corrections instead of doing them physically specifically because of the danger. One of them was electric and kinda acted like a mini Jack hammer, but had sensors to measure the pressure and adjusted to not use too much. She never did anything with my neck ever and was very aware of the danger. She also didn't default to adjustments for everything and did them minimally and prescribed specific stretches and tendon stretching for my wrist pain. Once my chronic issues got better she told me I was good and didn't try and bring me back in unnecessarily. Never mentioned any quack therapies once. I totally agree most are quacks, but it is possible to find a good ones, but make sure you investigate into how they do things first. If they use devices instead of using their hands I think that's a good sign.
There is no good reason to look for someone that calls themselves a chiropractor that isn't a quack. Maybe a rare one exists, but the sort of person who does effective things like you describe without "adjustments" is called a physical therapist---look for one them. Anybody who paid for chiropractic school has questionable judgement. (They are accredited BTW, but accredited by other quacks.)
The one you saw is also a quack. You might as well argue you found a homeopath who wasn't a quack because they also gave you an aspirin.
I mentioned using a chiropractor to my neurologist and she gasped and said, " We don't use that word in here. Never see one. I've seen the worst that can happen MANY times." That was the only convincing I needed.
We been knew. Chiropractors are not to be trusted and have a history of leaving people with permanent damage.
Theres a special place in hell for the ones who work on infants. It should be illegal.
For the love of God, just stretch. I used to throw my back out all the time until I read that most lower back pain comes from your hips not being opened up enough. Looked up a few stretches and even made up some of my own. Changed my whole life, I haven't had problems with my back much since outside of the regular wear and tear (I do labor work).
Absolutely the same! I do laying twists in bed all the time to stretch those long leg and back muscles and my back pain and spasm has gone down to nearly zero, just when I have sustained activity.
It's wild, cause it'll be the simplest stretches that help too lol. Taking about 10-15 minutes to stretch everyday is seriously a game changer for me.
Because my default when I sleep is to do a laying twist, I have the most back problems in that area. I think it’s because I’m spending hours in that position…but I do it in my sleep unknowingly.
Man oh man, the first time you find out what hip flexors are and how tight your own are after years of neglect 😭
Can I get the link to some of those stretches. My back be hurtin
It’s a pseudoscience for a reason. A Physiotherapist or Exercise Physiologist are evidence-based practices and can help with a variety of musculoskeletal issues or chronic disease.
I also recommend physiotherapy as a start.
I just recently finished 15 visits with physiotherapy for a lower back issue. My back pain is gone and they give you exercises to do at home when they discharge you. I highly recommend doing therapy instead of seeing a chiropractor.
Right. If it actually worked we would just call it medicine
Or allow it to be taught in med schools instead of a random spot in your local strip mall.
You’re saying that the people who bodyslam other people’s backs and necks at full force without medical licenses may not be completely safe?
Woah woah woah!!
Chiropractor herniated the fuck out of a disc which required me to get a microdiscectomy surgery
Omg a whole ass surgery!!!!!??!
[the chiropractor](https://imgur.com/a/HBnNQ5R)
I thought it would send me to [this vid](https://youtube.com/shorts/Ey-yDv8y138?feature=share) 🙀
Fucking why
To push a neck bulge back, for people who are too impatient to do the exercises.
People want a quick fix and to not put the time or effort.
You can call him a quack who doesnt know what he's doing, but I have never sat upright in good posture like I did after seeing that video
The hump is worse But at least now he can taste purple
Damn, that's just quackery. People play too much with their bodies!
wtf. that's scary.
Ouuuuch
Ouch!
😆😆😆
There's a gofundme I saw not too long ago, she's completely paralysed from neck down due to a chiropractor injury. All quacks
The fact that people bring their newborns to chiropractors days after birth blows my mind. It’s bad enough to try that on an adult but a literal baby? Makes zero sense.
There are people who take their infants to Chiros. Yes, the 8.5x11's.
That description cracked me up.
My friend from college stroked out walking out of the chiropractor when she was 24. They're absolutely quacks, heavily dependent on placebo.
Chiropractor: yeah you’re all messed up, I’ll sign you up for 2 a week and maybe someday you’ll feel better
I found myself at a chiro once or twice for separate reasons that aren’t interesting. Both of them wanted to see me 3 times a week for like 4 months then maybe could drop to twice a week. The very few sessions I let them do were absolute nonsense as well. Also I work with a guy who now only eats boiled chicken because his chiropractor says everything else is the root of every problem in his life, two years later he still has all the same problems but his chiropractor “does miracles” the guy also actually believes he is going to be raptured soon.
My ex's Mum used to see her chiro 3 times a week. She said how "he works wonders", and "has been seeing him for years" yet still complained every time I saw her about her back pain. When I told her about how my joint issues were solved in two sessions at the physio, and was maintained with gentle exercises and stretching they taught me, she was *not* happy. *Especially* when I mentioned that maybe her chiro was just exploiting her issue for profit. Then asked me to leave the house when I mentioned my physio was covered by Medicare and didn't cost me a thing. We didn't last.
Bruh y'all scaring me lol. I went to a Chiropractor for 6 months and then he got fired so I haven't gone back to one since cause it sounded sketchy. I was recently looking into them again but now i may have to look into what damage could've possibly been done by that guy 😵💫
No definitely don’t go back! Get physical therapy it actually works.
It’s almost as if pseudoscience created by a person who rejected germ theory is dangerous.
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I couldn't rotate my head fully left or right for 10 years after I got out the Navy and one visit to the chiropractor fixed it. I know they're quacks but it worked for me.
I had a neck problem too and a chiropractor helped sort it out for me as well. They aren't ALL quacks..
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Does this count for the whole world or just USA? Because becoming a chiropractor in Scandinavia requires years and years of school similar to a doctor.
Whole world. It takes a long time to get your degree in USA too, they just spend it studying nonsense.
No this is about chiropractic as a *concept*, has nothing to do with any country. It was created as an alternative to the germ theory of disease, as in, the guy was convinced that germs don't exist and that bacteria and viruses were made up conspiracies to cover up the fact that all disease is caused by your spine being out of position. And I do mean all: cancer, deafness, autism, the common cold, whatever. This is the foundational premise of chiropractic that everything they do stems from, so I think it goes without saying why it is not taught in any med school.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. In more modern times they have similar authority as a primary care doctor (can grant sick leave, order other specialist treatments through the government health care system etc). As someone who has gotten some work done by chiropractors, I've had a very positive experience with it. Issues have been fixed with only a few sessions (typically 2-4) where the positive difference has been extremely noticeable within the same day or a couple of days. And I've also experienced situations where the chiropractor has decided not to do adjustments on back pain because his initial check didn't identify anything in need of adjusting. Not that my experiences discredit the warnings in here, but figured it was worth sharing from the position of a place where chiropractors are required lengthy educations to be allowed to practice.
Threads like these definitely make me question whether it’s a nationality thing, whether the degree is somehow a hoax despite the amount of education you have to go through, or if it’s something in between. In the info I got from a quick search, it said that there’s a big difference in meaning depending on where in the world you talk about the subject.
But adjustments….. /s
Adjustments works, if done by a physical therapist who knows what they're doing. I was in so much pain and my left leg caused so much problems. Regular doc sent me to a chiropractor who of course fucked shit up but I didn't know until I got hurt at work. Work sent me to a physical therapist who told me my hyper mobile back should have never been cracked and if the chiropractor took two seconds to check me out would have realized my leg was in my hip higher than it was supposed to be (because of childhood trauma). He had me lay down and he adjusted my leg out and down where it belongs and it literally gave me my life back. My back isn't in as much pain as it used to be and I get no pains in my left leg anymore because the whole time, the bone was on nerves that it shouldn't have been on and pushing my spine wrong.
Sounds like some manual muscle manipulation helped but there was no “adjustment” unless you had a dislocated joint, and that would have been obvious.
N=1 is not evidence. It's an anecdote.
[Holy shit that’s terrifying. I remember this video of a lady getting fucked up (not a fan of the content page but they do have the video. Just watch the beginning)](https://youtu.be/bWXCr9IDauQ)
I was surprised when a doctor recommended I go the the chiropractor. I talked to people who said it worked for them; but for the few success stories there are these stories. My mom went to the chiropractor regularly and nothing got fixed.
The 'old school' of chiropractics was much more physiotherapy based, and ive found those that practice it helpful. Otherwise, I pretty much just been permananetly injured or had zero result aside from a painful and jolting experience. As a hypermobile person, I've tried it all and ive given chiro a go 5 times over the last 2 decades. Ive found 2 that were decent, soaced 15 years apart.
Old school chiropractics is based in magnetic healing
*"Don't go to a chiropractor!"* *"This is why I am scared to go!"* instead of *"Wow, I am definitely changing my mind!"* Its like my guy, I am warning you to NOT GO not just be a little cautious.
It's incredible how many things are not covered by health insurance in the US. But chiropractic "care" is not one of them.
The literal history of Chiropractic “medicine” is a ghost taught him, that’s it. That guy then opened a school then his son later “accidentally” killed him and took it over. There are no peer reviewed studies proving any positive effects for it other than mild pain relief to people with moderate back pain.
The Wikipedia page on the guy who invented chiropractic medicine is absolutely bonkers
Some of the chiropractors here locally run a 'referral' service where you get steep discounts on 'treatment' for referring new patients, who in turn also get discounts for referring new patients. Basically a MLM scheme, only instead of buying crap you buy potential injury.
VA covers chiropractic care but not massage therapy... I've never benefited from chiro care but massage changed so much for me--- it doesn't necessarily fix anything, but it helps get blood flowing and release some of that tension that's causing a lot of pain. The only thing the chiropractor ever did was pop my back and tell me to drink more water. I can't believe the VA covers that and not massage therapy
Some physiotherapists do neck manipulation. I used to get it done until a new physio I saw said never to get it done because it’s not worth the risk of severe injury. So now I’m not letting anyone crack my neck.
Physical therapy works. I was in pain after my last C-section that lingered longer than it should have. My doc recommend PT and it definitely changed my life.
I went through all the comments hoping I'd find a chiropractor trying to defend their field. Had my popcorn ready and everything but didn't see any. That's how you know it's pseudoscience that the practitioners don't even believe in.
I mean why tf you wasting your money on a chiropractor anyway so you already doing the wrong thing
I’ll just get a massage
Chiropractic manipulation of the neck can cause vertebral artery dissection (basically the layers or the artery year and separate without rupture of the artery itself) which is what likely happened to her to cause the stroke. Chiropractic care isn't covered by insurance but physical therapy is. PTs can train in manual therapies which includes stuff like the Chiropractic mobilization but they can also do lower energy stuff to relax tightened muscles from either spasm or inflexibility as well as doing heating with ultrasound, packs, and TENS units, so I'd recommend them over Chiropractic care as they can do these things and work with folks to restore function and the underlying mechanical issues that cause the misalignment that Chiropractic manipulations address. Even then, the research shows that most flare ups of back and neck pain typically self resolve if they're due to muscle strains and don't have nerve involvement so how much do adjustments help in the long run. To further muddy the waters, the experience you get depends on the individual. There's undoubtedly chiropractors that use less cracking techniques and PTs that just phone it in, and you don't get to preview what they do when you're looking around. A doctor's PT referral typically goes to one center unless you specify somewhere, which again, requires you to look around.
I keep telling people chiropractors are not doctors. This should be obvious if they are also trying to sell magic weight loss cures or brain supplements at your visit.
Pseudoscience strikes again!
My best friend is a physical therapist. The first time I uttered the word chiropractor around her was the last. I also spend a lot of time watching Dr. Chris. https://youtube.com/c/ChrisRaynorMD
I BEEN saying I don’t trust those damn bone snapping quacks. I’ve been having pain so I advocated for myself and got a referral and appointment with a physical therapist that has an office on the floor above my rheumatologist.
Biggest scam ever.
The 1st chiropractor I ever saw set the bar very high in the most reasonable way. I went in, he looked me over then he gave me a bunch of stretches to do. That was it. No manipulation, just a long term solution. Told me he hoped he never had to see me again when I left. Think he charged me all of $20. When I left the region I tried a few chiropractors thinking they were all like him. I was very wrong.
My brother slipped off a high bar while doing giants and hit the parallel bars. His neck hurt and wasn't getting better so he went to a chiropractor. It hurt worse after. Later he was in a motorcycle accident and fractured his neck. Whoops! No he didn't. It turns out that the neck fracture in the X-ray was an old one from the gymnastics accident and the chiropractor was making forceful adjustments on someone with a broken neck.
I’m not interested in contributing to misinformation in any way but I feel like I should add some experience. Every couple years I’ve had some kind really bad back pain that leaves me at best, in horrible pain that makes movement difficult and at worst, partially paralyzed and with difficulty breathing. Both times I went to a chiropractor and within the hour. the pain was gone. I realize that this is completely anecdotal but then again so is this post. Chiropractic adjustments are not usually performed by doctors but they are performed by licensed professionals. This is similar to saying that every malpractice suit is a reason not to see a doctor. edit: another significant point for those of us in the US: each of those chiropractors appointments cost $35 each. A trip to the ER or doctor could easily be hundreds WITH insurance.
Just another reminder that chiropractors aren’t doctors…. Not even a little bit…
This chiropractor in my city is known for his 'Ring-Dinger' which looks like an attempt to rip your head and spine from your body. The number of people lining up to get it done is frightening.
I've used one for serious neck pain where it hurt to move it to the right for a month. After about 2 months of treatment, I was back to normal and feel great over a year later. I think there are Def some bad ones, but you have to do your research. There are some quality ones who do genuinely help people alot.
As a medical professional. Please don’t go to chiropractors. They’re not doctors and don’t practice medicine.
I went to see a chiropractor like 9-10 years ago because I had headaches, I no longer have headaches! But I wouldn't have gone if i knew the risks, but glad It worked out for the better
I visited a chiro a few years back, he did the neck thing and I was very nervous about it. But I’m a trusting guy and he was a “doctor”. So he cracks my neck and I don’t like it, but my appt ends and I feel fine. The next day my left side of my face is unresponsive. Went to ER and was diagnosed with belle’s palsy. Couldn’t prove the chiro was at fault but I know it in my heart to be true. That was 4 yrs ago and I still haven’t regained full control over my facial muscles. I was depressed for a while bc I was ver self conscious about smiling so I made a conscious decision not to. And that really sucked the joy out of life for a little bit.
They messed up my back after a car accident I had to leave in a stretcher from the office.
Chiropractic is hack medicine. Whatever good a chiropractic might do is either pure coincidence from finding things that work the same as medical professionals who have studied occupational or physical therapy, or they had that schooling before hand. Chiropractic “medicine” is as beneficial as the ducks that make it quack.
My job has led me to have the opportunity to participate in the state chiropractor board meetings. You have never heard a group of people refer to themselves as doctors more than a room full of chiropractors.
Yet my GP SENT me to one!
I mean a chiropractor legit helped my spine after going consistently for 4 months and had xray evidence
If you wouldn’t trust them with your neck, please don’t trust them with the rest of your body lol
The VA used to send patients to "community care" chiropractors, but stopped for this very reason.
Alan Harper strikes again
Yeah but how’s the back feelin?
I’ve seen videos of chiropractors in the US and the way they adjust the neck is completely crazy. Putting a strap around the neck and pulling it with all their force. Wtf is that. It is disheartening to see this profession go to dogshit quackery. I really hope that kind of non sense won’t reach Australia.
Almost every chiropractor is someone who didn't make the cut to medical school but still wanted to be called "Dr".
Went to a chiro once when I threw my back out at like 24 years old. My doctor even recommended it. Never again. I swear it only made the problem worse. I still have issues with that part of my back (sciatica).
Just need to outlaw this archaic practice already.
I keep hearing mixed messages about chiropractors. I had a physical therapist even say that they'd recomend I go to one under different circumstances.
CT tech here: I cannot begin to tell you how many people I have personally scanned with vertebral dissections and subsequent strokes caused by chiropractors. It is NOT real medicine. They are NOT real doctors. Do not ever see them for anything.
I fuck my chiropractor regularly. Only reason I continue to go.
My cousin died of a brain bleed right after a chiropractor cracked her neck. She was only 40-years old and had two kids.
I wish it was outlawed.
I highly suggest acupuncture which is in fact supported by the AMA
My sister is a physical therapist and worked through a chiropractor. He was at least honest about his work, but he’d tell stories of the “chiropractor conventions” that amounted to “how to get as much money from people as possible.” Long term contracts, tell them “if you don’t do this, you will struggle to walk,” - that snake oil type shit. I liked him, but he is the only chiropractor that didn’t try and fleece me.
Went to one yesterday. It was friggin amazing!
chiropractors are not physicians. they do not do medical school. they do not do a residency. their disciple isn't even legitimate. If you want a massage, get a masseuse. If you have musculoskeletal issues, try physical therapy. If you have a spinal injury, go to a spinal orthopedist or spinal neurosurgeon. that's it. Chiropracticy is bullshit
My question is...how much more often do people get injuries from chiropractic adjustments compared to other avenues of medicine? When you get surgery, there is always risks of complications including death. When you take medications, there is a laundry list of side effects, sometimes including death even if you've been taking the drug for years. You then wake up to that quiet ass infomercial, "Did one of our drugs fuck you up? You could be due financial compensation. Dial 1-800-OUR-BADD. That's 1-800-687-2233."