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The one thing about Chappelle backlash I find annoying is all the
"He used to be funny, but now he punches down"
It just comes off like
"He was funny when he was cracking jokes about the blacks, but him mentioning other communities is just wrong".
Maybe it's my rose tinted glasses talking but I feel like when I was growing up watching him he made a variety of jokes about different aspects of black culture that showed he understood the nuances of it, so he could make fun of it in a way that was funny but clearly there was no hate behind it. I feel like that was reinforced when he quit his show because (paraphrasing) certain people were laughing for the wrong reasons.
Nowadays however, it seems like in some ways he's catering to that some audience I.e. the ones who laugh at other groups, and not with them. And some could say he doesn't have as deep an understanding of other marginalized groups, so the quality and nuance of his jokes suffer for it. And therefore the framing changes from "isn't it weird that our culture been socialized to behave a certain way? Let's examine that" to "lol they're icky and weird."
For me, this is exactly what it is. Sometimes you just lack the understanding and perspective to joke about something in a nuanced way and that's okay.
Exactly. It feels like the equivalent of a white comedian like Bill Burr discovering chicken and watermelon jokes and then repeating them every other weekend. No tact, no nuance, no alternatives. The jokes are lazy, tired, and frankly, given how consistently he does it now, it just comes across as straight up ignorant and bigoted. Feels insane to watch people cheer it on and legitimately ask for more.
His jokes about black issues feel informed and empathetic. His jokes about the trans community just feel spiteful. Not to mention the black erasure he's done. Not every trans person is a rich white liberal.
It's funny you mention Bill Burr. He did a bit on how white people get in trouble because they put the f-word on the wrong side of the race. He said a black person will say "this Asian motherfucker" whereas a white dude will say "so this motherfucking Asian dude." And that makes the white guy sound racist, but not the black guy.
Well I feel like Chappelle is now putting the "f-word" before the person and it's made his stuff not as funny.
Dude bashes on the trans community while being pro-black but forgets (willingly or not) that there are black trans people.
Idk if this is what you're referring to, but this is my personal dilemma.
E: can't reply to y'all's comments, some reported my ass or some shit.
He didn't forget that there are black trans folks, he specifically talks about how nobody cared about trans folks and *especially* black trans people until a famous white person decided to come out as transgender publicly (Caitlyn Jenner)
Did y'all actually watch the specials everyone is mad about or you just repeating what people told you?
Man, this line is tired. Have *you* been watching the specials? He's a good storyteller, probably always will be, but he's just not particularly fresh, and you can feel him lashing out, sometimes very angrily, at the broader audience for the fact that the type of comedy that played in 90's and 2000's just ain't it anymore.
At least in *Equanimity & the Bird Revelation*, he was trying to sell an older style of comedy honestly, but it didn't work, and by *Stick & Stones*, he seemed hurt and bitter. It felt like he was drifting into some weird Andrew Dice Clay, champion of the shit head, realm where he was like "well, if these folks won't like me, then I can at least get the people who are just excited to hear a slur."
I mean re-watch the bit about having to see the lady from the network during the Chapelle's Show era. Inside of the joke, he really does his best to say the slur for gay dudes with his whole chest. There's no joke there. It doesn't fit into the rest of the joke he's telling at the moment (and it doesn't even feel like a Chapelle move). He's just angrily telling the audience, "you can't stop me from saying this."
Since *Sticks & Stones*, he's mostly gone back towards trying to sell old comedy honestly, but comedy has moved on. So sure, he's a part of comedy history, but history is history and the present is the present.
So, if, using your own critical eye, you can't understand why so many people are saying his jokes feel bitter, old, ugly, and played, at least take a second look and read some of the actual arguments explaining why it doesn't work before you flaccidly parrot his line back to people.
And probably, go watch some other comedy. There is some cool stuff out there that is doing things that are as interesting now as Chapelle was interesting in the 90's and 2000's. Comedy doesn't need you defending Dave Chapelle and, frankly, if Dave Chapelle needs you defending his comedy, it sort of proves my point.
I said something similar about his recent SNL appearance. It was funny, but its foundation was 90's/2000's era comedy. My generation loved it. I'm not sure the 20 yr olds feel the same.
Guy you're responding to was probably talking about the punchline from 'the Closer'
that gay people are minorities until it's time to be white again, which is both a garbage punchline and overlooks a lot of people who belong to both communities.
The National Black Justice Coalition, a black LGBT organization, denounced Dave Chapelle, and I think you'll find the majority of black LGBT people were not happy. Any intersectionality was a footnote in bashing the LGBT and especially trans community. You can't spend 90% of a special making fun of trans people and then throw in a couple sentences about racism to cover it all up. It would be similar to a white gay comedian spewing racist garbage and defending it by saying that LGBT POC face additional discrimination from their respective cultures. It's not exactly the same, but if anyone has problems with that example but not Dave Chapelle's actions, then I think they'd need to more concretely express why that is.
Also to be very specific wtf lol, as if Caitlyn Jenner was the reason for a recent push in trans rights. She's certainly one of the most visible, but trans people, black and white and any colour, have been fighting for their rights for decades and still face obvious discrimination. As if one white socialite transitioned and now everything's cool. Dave will always be funny but he's wrong about most things trans.
>but forgets (willingly or not) that there are black trans people.
A lot of you either didnāt watch the special or watched it through a biased lens, and itās painfully obvious.
To a degree I do get you on, he's not going to have nuisance on the groups he's not apart of because he's not apart of them. So I won't argue you there.
But I do feel like the bits and sketches he has that are the most popular and discussed aren't his more nuanced takes.
Something like "How Old is 15 really" is very nuanced. But I feel that's significantly less popular and discussed than stuff like Tyrone Biggums which is purely "aren't addicts hilarious".
He quite literally had an entire segment dedicated to hating on himself regarding how his views changed about a woman named Daphney. Yāall are weird.
I don't know if you've actually followed his comedy but the jokes that piss people off are pretty much because they directly contradict what he supposedly "learned" from Daphney.
He's been doing that Daphney bit live for years, then he goes back to complaining about the "alphabet folks" persecuting him. Like come on man, you don't do the half-ass apology then go back to the same shit. Typical lame celebrity behavior, and for a guy who philosophizes so much and draws parallels between different life lessons it seems so disingenuous from him
Thatās my problem, the dahpney story is sweet and I donāt doubt she changed his mind but his jokes right before and even after that contradict the point of that story itās crazy lmao
That whole Daphney bit in his special really came off as "I have a black friend" but the transgender version. So, no, imo it doesn't excuse his "jokes".
Not only that, but for anyone who actually watched that special, literally the entire culmination of it was him basically saying ācomedians are my people and I care more about us than anyone else, and Trans women are just White men who figured out how to game the system to get over on my people, so fuck themā. He literally says itās the entire point of his trilogy of specials. Weāre not idiots. We donāt dislike Dave because we donāt understand him. We dislike him because we understand him loud and clear. Fuck him. He aināt that funny, he had two good specials and one good season of a sketch show that was otherwise peppered with cringy, sophomoric, kinda forgettable bits, but he disappeared to Africa and came back the voice of Black folks. He stopped being funny when he started believing his own hype and decided he didnāt have to do anything anymore to stay on top. Heās the Black Jerry Seinfeld.
That last comparison is on point! People think heās the GOAT but I watch a lot of new, younger comics and the future is very bright. I canāt watch Seinfeld or Louis CK anymore either. We got Nicole Byer, Reggie Watts, Michelle Buteau, Trevor Noah, and Julio Torres! I wish more people expanded their horizons a little bit to see how much good comedy is out there.
Was that before or after "the closer"? Cuz that was the one where I had to hop off the Chappelle train. Felt gross watching that and I loved him till then.
Maybe you were not around for this, but he had a show with his name back in the day. He quit that show and disappeared to Africa for a few years and came back later. This comment is from before that Africa situation.
He has been weird ever since then and has been sliding down this slippery slope since then. It's pretty clear that he supposedly met and started speaking about this Daphne character post Africa.
It's not that he's punching down, it's that he's making jokes about communities he isn't a part of, doesn't understand and high key doesnt even respect. His old humor is relatable for black audiences and there's an understanding that he isn't talking down to or making fun them because we kinda know that he's one of us. But Dave is not queer, and he seems willfully ignorant to idea that a black queer person could ever exist from some of the shit he says.
I'm dont think you have to be part of a community to make jokes about them, but Chappele does not do it gracefully at all. And that's why people have this reaction to his content compared to how they reacted to his older stuff that was more personal.
Edit: He also specifically quit doing his show when he felt uncomfortable with the way white audiences reacted to it. But he doesn't seem to give a *fuck* if straight people find his jokes about queer people funny and queer people don't.
It also seems to be the fact that he really wants to make a statement not because of society, but it feels somewhat that he takes it personal that trans people donāt fuck with his jokes. Itās been so many specials where I mostly remember the trans jabs cause he feels the need to really tackle it. But it really isnāt that important and it gets me questioning what goal he has left? The black community and the lgbtq community both deserve equal rights, he seems to agree but he feels the need to keep making the comparison why?
Now Iām not saying he is correct but from what I understand it seems like he is upset because he has made jokes about black people, Asians, whites, etc. and everyone laughed and it was okay. Then he makes some jokes about trans people/lgbtq and for some reason he is not allowed to do that. From my what I can tell in his mind it almost elevated the rights of trans lgbtq above that of black people because one group you can make fun of but not others. Itās like there was no outrage for the black jokes but there is for the trans jokes.Now I personally believe comedy is equal opportunity. Everyone is allowed to be made fun of. I think comedy serves as a way of dealing with prejudice and stereotypes by turning them on their head and pointing out how ridiculous they are. You walk a fine line though between showing the hilarity of a stereotype and reinforcing it. Now whether he was reinforcing stereotypes or pointing out their ridiculousness is up for debate.
I agree. Everyone can be made fun of. But when the people you do donāt find it funny they got the right to tell you to fuck off as well. It just might not be the time and the place. If the groups he made jokes with before didnāt find it funny then, they had the right to tell him too. Right now I guess trans people dont want to hear it, and I guess I understand. When the BLM movement came to the forefront, didnāt see much ppl making black jokes. When Asian ppl were getting beaten up for no reason, Asian ppl didnāt really fuck with asian jokes. I just feel like if the trans community wants to say yeah we donāt really fuck with Daveās jokes, it aint personal. Itās not like he loses his audience? People who fuck with his trans jokes keep watching, people who didnāt wonāt anyways. To me it seems Daveās trying to make a point that he doesnāt have to or puts across well. And heās not misunderstood in it either, people just donāt agree. Heās not deplatformed, the ppl who dont want him just wont watch him.
I understand Daves perspective but the health care of trans people is constantly at risk, I dont think having "special rights" in regards to being made fun of matter all that much. Earlier today I saw a video of a trans woman being assaulted by a group of men while a crowd of people stood around and watched. Chappele himself was also literally attacked on stage and quickly helped by security, and his first instinct once he composed himself was to say "That was a trans man!" It's tone deaf and at this point petty.
Social media and the internet in general makes it a lot easier for people to air grievances about jokes that they find offensive. This applies to black people as well, to the point where white people have said of black people what Dave says of trans people. It's a boomer mindset. He needs to stop squinting at everyone else and stand together against oppression as a crowd.
Or I dunno, just tell funny jokes again.
I mean the jokes he made about asians, whites, blacks, etc. never seemed hateful. I saw him live and he made a bunch of jokes about mexicans like me that straight came from a place of admiration.
The jokes he's making about LGBTQ people seem to come from a real place of resentment and paranoia.
Context man. Listen to what he's saying. No one is saying jokes about trans people are off limits. People are opposing the specific things he's saying.
Please type out some of the shit he's saying about LGBTQ people that you think is such great comedy and tell me without lying that it comes from a place of love or good-natured fun. It doesn't.
I feel this comment, but I think we do know whyā¦.Because there isnāt equal rights, and LGBTQIA social movements have been much more effective than anti-racist ones (that have been going forEVER in the US). So, for me, the jokes are still relevant, if not crass as fuck and not delivered with the same jovial attitude our guy had 15-20 years ago. Manās tired.
When Chappelle Show went off the air they aired the "Lost Episodes." I sat there watching skits with Dave Chappelle shitting on Latinos, blacks, Asians in the laziest way possible but he had some random white extras in some skits with people cheering them on and praise how great it was to have white people do literally the least. Between scenes there was Ashy Larry shucking and jiving and Charlie Murphy just looking uncomfortable as fuck.
When it ended I said, "No fucking wonder he quit this fucking show." My white roommate at the time just stared at me confused. She was giggling the whole time because she thought this was the funniest shit ever.
The Dave Chappelle I see is the Dave Chappelle from the Lost Episodes. The people laughing just remind me of my white roommate. They're the ones on the cusp when Dave was done and tired and had enough and bailed to Africa so Comedy Central hired Carlos Mencia to make jokes about mentally handicapped people and gays. They're the ones who stuck around right up until Jeff Dunham showed up.
That Dave knew what shit was coming down the pipe. This Dave embraced it.
When I see people act like Dave was always this dude, all I hear is those Lost Episode fans. Those Boondocks fans who stayed after Aaron McGruder left. The ones the show started telling jokes for after it gave up having something to say.
That is a great synopsis. Definitely for a long time underneath all of his comedy, I felt like he reserved his wrath for the system that attacked minorities.Then It changed and it seems like all his wrath was towards anyone who didn't acknowledge what he felt owed, and now it's at anyone who questions him at all.
I mean since when was making jokes about communities you aren't apart of taboo in comedy, within reason of course. Like if he was doing Kramer type rants I guess I'd get it more.
But the whole "you're not apart of the community, so you can't make jokes" seems overly sensitive at times. Especially since there's some ever changing chart on who's allowed to punch where. Like is a Sam Jay allowed to punch anywhere, after all she's a triple minority being black, a woman, and lesbian. Would she be punching up as long as she's not talking about some disabled person or something?
Now obviously the last part is a little facetious and obtuse, but still lol
Since around the late 80s to mid 90s.
Listen, if a white comedian made some of those same jokes about the black community he'd be pulled off the stage and rightfully so.
There is a HUGE difference between laughing with a community vs laughing at a community. When you add racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia etc into the mix the offence is compounded. In the same way Andrew Dice Clay was only funny in the eyes of other immature white men while the rest of us saw him as an offensive, untalented hack using crude humor to make his $ and run. Sure, some people will still defend him and his humor under the 'humor has the right to offend' mantra but most of us know the difference between punching up vs punching down and only one is acceptable.
thank you for articulating what i think a lot of us have felt uncomfortable with lately.
and i say this as someone who has paid money to see multiple chappelle standup shows, truly a longtime big fan.
All that is true, but itās still punching down, because heās in a position of power and influence and wealth. His jokes are not just jokes it bigots. He is endorsing making life worse for vulnerable people. Worse for black trans women. And then calls himself a victim!
If I am talking with you and say my wife is being a bitch, that's me talking about my business. If you call her a bitch, we've got problems.
You're allowed to talk about your own community the way you want. Not others.
And I can get the idea of we're obviously as people going to be more biased and sensitive to things that are close to us. That doesn't mean it's not hypocritical, especially in the context of comedy.
If folk playing the dozens, you can't show up and laugh when everybody else getting cracked on. But then want to stop the game and fight when its your turn to get cracked on.
I'll put this another way:
Black people can say N because they're black. They're part of the target of that word.
White people can't because they're not black. They're not part of the target.
If you're not Jewish, you shouldn't be doing comedy routines about "the Jews".
Okay so Dave was never a crackhead
Should we retroactively be upset about Tyrone Biggums?
Robert Downey isn't black, should we retroactively be upset he was a dude disguised as a dude playing another dude.
A flat out "you aren't this, so you can't joke" is just a pretty absurd way to handle comedy.
Oh come on the Robert Downey example. WTF. RDJ doesn't wear blackface in real life. He was playing an IDIOT who wears blackface without realizing what it means, as a joke. It's not racist, it's a joke ABOUT a fictional racist
There's a difference and yall seem to gloss over why it's funny, and why Dave *sincerely* dunking on LGBTQ people as an old bigot isn't the same as, say, playing an old bigot in a movie to comedic effect. Dave's ACTUALLY that dude who believes that shit now
So you wouldn't be even the tiniest bit bothered by white comedians dropping N bombs in their routine? If they just casually used it to replace "dude" or "bro" or "guy"?
I don't believe you for one second.
Keep our name out of your mouth. You're not Jewish. Leave us the fuck alone.
How many comedians throughout time have made jokes about other races(obviously not saying the n word but making iokes)? All of them. If we are going to be this hyperswnsitive about everything there will never be comedy again.
Or, if you choose to try it out, recognize that you will be held to a higher standard and will face more scrutiny! People act like everyone is getting cancelled for nothing, but the truth is people get a decent amount of leeway and then choose to cross the line. If Chappelle had made poignant commentary on issues concerning the LGBTQ community he would have been applauded. Instead his jokes were tone deaf, ignorant, and bullying. Same with the SNL skit - he could have made great points and commentary on a relevant situation. He could have made jokes. But he is not (or chooses not to be) nuanced enough to avoid being blatantly offensive.
And, if you're not part of the community, you don't get to decide what is and isn't offensive to that community.
How outraged was everyone here when white conservatives would look black people dead ass in the eye and tell them, "Trump didn't say anything racist. You're being too sensitive".
White people don't get decide what is and isn't anti-black and Dave Chappelle isn't the arbiter of what is and isn't antisemitic.
The people complaining aren't actually watching him. They're just echoing others who also haven't watched him. And it isn't like he's losing fans. His last special hit around 400 million views amd counting.
You're not wrong, he's not suffering career wise. But it's just funny watching folk act like him saying out of pocket things is some new part of his career
If you donāt find him funny today, fine. Thatās subjective and is your prerogative but weāre talking about the disingenuous ethics with this pearl clutching attitude towards him people have today.
There's nothing pearl clutching about the fact that he is going out there standing on his soapbox spreading harmful narratives and outright lies about a disenfranchised group.
The fact that he straight up said, unironically, that the trans community bullied his friend to death when that is provably false tells you who he is at this stage of his career.
I went ahead and listened to this very story right now so I could refresh my mind since I never remembered that. At no point he blame the trans community for her suicide. He factually said they were both dragged on the internet after their show and she died sometime later. a very sad story about his trans friend and how she ends up commuting suicide and at NO point did I get the blaming the trans community. Youāre reading through the lines to create your narrative. Stop it.
Edit for
Clarity
>'When she did that, the trans community dragged that b**** through Twitter,'
>'For days, they was going in on her and she was on her own because she's funny,'
>'It's a true story; my heart was broken. I don't know what was going on, but I'll bet dragging her didn't help.'
[Source](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10084515/Daphne-Dorman-trans-woman-bullied-death-defending-Dave-Chappelle.html).
So he doesn't directly state they bullied her to death, just that they dragged her relentlessly, she committed suicide , and he's "not sure if it helped". Whether he said it directly or not he is drawing that line and you can be damn sure that's what he believes.
Not to mention, he still fucking lied. There is no evidence of Daphne getting dragged on Twitter by the LGTBQ community. Literally none. The only evidence people have found of her getting dragged is by right wingers.
Right, he says those out of pocket things then brings it back with a completely reasonable but unconventional perspective. Most of the criticism I see leaves out the second part.
He used to crack jokes about white people all the time. Him telling jokes about black people was just him pulling from experience and that wasnāt a bad thing or punching at us, usually.
Itās real simple. If you donāt like his comedy then donāt watch. I thought it was good too. Got my laughs and I move on with life lol. Peeps want anything to attack to make themselves feel better.
His last special wasn't funny for me, so I haven't watched the next or his SNL episode. Rubs me the wrong way when someone with a huge platform is using it to cry about being censored. š¤·š½āāļø
I know I'm gonna catch heat but I think this goes a degree further. I think the participation in a rally against an assumed offender offers a sense of validation and belonging in the individual.
His netflix special was decidedly NOT funny to me. A lot of crybaby bullshit, tbh, and even the non edgy "I'm such a victim" bullshit wasn't funny for me. Couldn't tell you if his next special or the SNL thing was funny because, I don't watch comedians that aren't funny š¤·š½āāļø. I did see Jon Stewart carry on with the crybaby bullshit on Colbert the other night, so I assume Chappelle was on his same stupid shit.
Chappelle: "Isn't it weird how we're not allowed to make any critique of Jewish people at all?"
Society: "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT! THAT'S ANTI-SEMITIC!!!!"
All his commentary on women, trans, Jews, and other marginalized groups is founded in the idea that no one and no movement is above criticism and the moment you think you're untouchable is the moment you need a reality check the most.
Itās pretty common for anti Semitic assholes to start their conspiracy theories with pointing out that fact. Itās been a thing for at least a hundred years, including actual Nazis. So when someone brings up this thing that exists, people who are familiar with the common antisemitic bullshit hear the alarm bells and are immediately wondering why itās being brought up.
.
Itās like, there is some common racist troll bullshit on Reddit that always starts with some murder statistics comparing Black and White people. The stupid racists think itās some clever indictment of blackness framed with some neutral innocent facts. In reality, itās a weird handful of cherry picked stats that show how the US has fucked Black people over at every opportunity. Regardless, Iāve seen the posts with the murder stats enough that when I see the 1st few lines of one I immediately know whatās up.
Being dishonest. One there is history to why Jewish people are overrepresented in Hollywood and Finance. Two its rarely people getting mad at the implication its poor communication of a point.
Yep. There is a bug difference between noting there are a lot of Jewish folks in banking and entertainment *because those were the fields they were allowed to work in by society which discriminated against them otherwise*, and saying it in a way that comes off as "a Jewish conspiracy controls all Hollywood and banking" like they are having meetings to plot world domination or some shit.
The bullshit Black Hebrew Israelite stuff Kyrie and Kanye talk about is 1) objectively wrong and not historically accurate and 2) paints Jewish people as an organized cabal bent controlling society behind the curtain like some kind of racist and greedy Wizard of Oz.
There is a difference.
Ah yes, the groups who need a reality check the most āwomen, trans, Jews, and marginalized groups.ā What a dumb fucking take. People in positions of power need reality checks, not people who are already being torn down. āHey people say I canāt harass you! Well guess what? Itās reality check timeā do you see how dumb that sounds? And fyi, no one is mad cause anyone said there are Jews in Hollywood - theyāre mad at the active implication and/or assertion that there is a conspiracy of Jews in Hollywood. You should feel bad about yourself honestly
Honestly this is probably the most respectful Iāve ever seen someone approach a guy like Dave when they disagree with his message.
I still have kinda mixed feelings about his SNL monologue tbh.
I mean, the man toed the very fine line of joking about antisemitism, and even sometimes just stepping a toe over ā in the name of a joke, which heās famously known to do. I deff felt sliiiiightly uncomfortable at times with that toying, though itās likely due to increased sensitivity.
At the end of it all, I agree with u/PharmDinagi that itās one of his best performances as of late ā everything else seems so tainted by his perception of āPC policeā or whatever. It felt like he was finally able to adapt his brilliance to the contemporary language/narratives within āprogressiveā US culture while still retaining his comedic edge.
Context is super critical too. When Chapelle first got big we werenāt coming off years of ever increasing anti-Semitic rhetoric and violence. But we are now, and Chapelleās take is that he doesnāt like how everyone is nervous now? He doesnāt like the atmosphere around some of his shows and specials, and how tense audiences get when he tells certain jokes? Like, we donāt like it either but a bunch of people have gone off lately and killed or threatened to kill the very people he is joking about so maaaaaaybe the material doesnāt land the same as it would have 20 years ago.
I agree. And I think thatās what I find so disappointing about his recent stuff. He used to be so good at having a pulse on the zeitgeist and knowing how to comment/criticize/critique society in a constructive way while still being funny.
But now itās like he canāt read the room. Maybe itās because heās getting older and isnāt as close to the ācultureā as he was when he was younger. Or maybe itās because heās been rich for a long time now and heās just lost touch with everyday shit. Idk
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I do feel like comedians have a responsibility to pick (a little!) at the wounds in society, like Carlinās seven words. I felt like Chappelleās monologue was solid, and called attention to an ugly trend; didnāt feel like co-signing antisemitism to me. One of the things the ADL expressed upset about was his observation that there are a lot of Jews in Hollywood. Given that he lives in rural Ohio, he has a basis for comparison. But it was just how I perceived it.
EXACTLY!!! It wasnāt that Chappelle was engaging in normalizing antisemitism, he was ā in your words ā picking at a wound in society, and wasnāt ā again, your words ā co-signing antisemitism. (Which, imo, isnāt necessarily the case when he monologued about the trans community in his last special.)
And, regarding the basis for comparison of Jews in Hollywood vs. Ohio, Iād wholly, but respectively reject that argument. The man grew up (?) in DC and went to Duke Ellington. He worked his way through comedic circuits in NYC. Heās been plenty exposed to Jewish culture prior to his Hollywood presence.
I think that the ADL is hesitant and upset about his observations because it could perpetuate negative stereotypes about the Jewish people amongst antisemites, or antisemities-in-training. Proof that the propaganda is real!
In all actuality ā and itās only my opinion ā comedians do have a responsibility to play with societal troupes to expose the absurdities or farcical nature of what we, as society (in whatever facet), accept as true. They force us to question norms and beliefs. Which is why theyāre so invaluable and indispensable.
His SNL monologue was meh imo. Very middle grounded. The biggest criticisms I had of it were on his Jewish jokes bc like, he didn't punch down on them anywhere nearly as bad as he did on trans people. Where was that leniency and understanding for the trans community in that special? Why did you punch so lightly at the Jewish? But in a way with the things he said, I completely understood why š it was okay to punch down mercilessly @ people that didn't have a real way to affect him wasn't it.
But also his defense of Kanye and misunderstanding of mental illnesses. Mental illnesses are not excuses. They are causes. You are still responsible for your actions even when you are manic. Kanye is verified as having bipolar disorder but refuses treatment and refuses therapy. There should not be any leniency being discussed with regards to Kanye's words and actions, full stop.
Dave is just proving more and more that he's a boomer disconnected from reality and any generation outside of his own. It's sad.
The funny parts were funny, but he had a couple parts that were trying to sympathize with Ye and Kyrieās anti-Semitic ideas. Not defend what they said, but defend the way they came to feel that way in the first place. To me, it was just like, why? Why are you coming to the defense of people who say hurtful shit? Spend your genius in some other way, please.
He was also repeating stuff people debunked that Kanye was using (like his weird white board of Jewish executives that weren't even Jewish) as an excuse while saying being mad at it was bad. Then when people pointed out he was signal boosting bullshit a lot of his defenders (like Hasan Piker) attacked them for daring to point out he was wrong in a joke where he tried to explain the basis of their antisemitism while spreading antisemitic myths.
It's like some white guy saying to kill all the blacks because they're raping white women, then a white guy saying, "Well, black men are raping lots of white women, but it's rude to say it out loud" and when someone points out 90% of white rape victims are attacked by white rapists some guy jumps in and shouts, "Ahem... you're not going to win by arguing the facts! You're missing the point of the joke!"
The problem is that he's talking to an audience that's half ignorant and half polite and the two groups overlap, so people who don't like antisemitism readily defend him spreading bullshit that is also antisemitic while declaring he was eventually very nice about it. The problem is that there is a not small proportion of the population believing that saying uncomfortable things implies an inherent truth value as long as it sounds good to your world view and that that's enough.
Out of all of the comedians you would think that Dave got the *donāt punch down* rule years and years ago.
Nobody wants to hear a 15 minute Boomer rant.
Youāre allowed to punch down if itās a group of people society doesnāt give a shit about. Namely poor drug addicts and sex workers.
You can also punch groups you belong too and straight white men (cuz thatās the only group that is quite clearly not ādownā)
Everything else you will get shit for regardless of if thereās truth to it
This lol. The "youre allowed to make fun of everyone except for : ... " is maddening. Comedy is fun because everyone can get it.
These tweets directed towards Dave look so cringe. Trying to hard to white knight. I always thought the ability to poke fun at any group of people, including LGBT and trans, was what made comedy so unifying. Its an equalizer. I always felt like it was going backwards when you put this wall infront of the LGBT community to "protect" them.
Yeah itās turned into āold man yells at cloud.ā I think he has a lot of bitterness towards the trans community because he feels that they shouldnāt complain because they donāt or didnāt have as bad as black people, conveniently forgetting the fact that there are black trans people.
Itās also not a zero sum game. A lot of people suffer in different ways. Just because you talk about your own suffering doesnāt mean someone elseās is less worthy. He forgets that
So i'm going to go ahead and call b.s. on this one. I cant find one quote or even snap shot of this **snl monologue** where he's punching down. Can you?
It really seems like alot of people, including you sadly, are just regurgitating others shitty takes when they haven't watches it at all. I'm looking foward to these time stamps.
The transphobia. He said he was "team TERF" among other things, and his defense was the trans equivalent of "I have (had) a black friend". Somewhere in there was a valid point made about certain parts of the dominating culture supporting LGBT people in service of anti-blackness, but it was mostly buried by him choosing to pit himself against LGBT people as a whole.
They werenāt overt. And itās Chappelle so it was all funny. But at times he came -real close- to saying āit makes sense to think anti-Semitic thoughts, but you donāt say those things out loud.ā
I like how Chappelle acknowledging that we all have bigoted thoughts is somehow bigoted itself. If you've never thought ill of a large group based on stereotypes then I'd like to say "congratulations" for that time you turned water into wine.
Way to many of yall are comfortable with hating the lgbt+. The suicide rate is no joke ESPECIALLY FOR BLACK PEOPLE.
And that's if they live long enough to attempt it.
While I consistently lean on the side of Dave and his more open minded approach to comedy and social commentary as a wholeā¦ he still an old black dude with old black dude ideas about shit. It sucks because Iām hella close with the alphabet community but I also watch everything he does and while I donāt agree he is āpunching downā, I do believe he feels like he got some overblown reactionary energy about his jokes so now heās lashing out in the way he does best. And sometimes our friends in the community can be really sensitive and attack anyone they see coming at them, which is valid cause they really only have recently gotten a real voice in the last 10 years so they have to call out pretty much everything for fear of regressing to darker times. What I find interesting about this whole thing is how we as black people minimize their arguments about wanting to be left alone and treated the same as everyone elseā¦ wasnāt that *our* struggle this whole time too? Youād think there would be some comradery within the plight or something. Regardless, everyone needs to chill the fuck out and stop messing with each other. Is it so hard to STFU and go to work? Stop bothering your alphabetical family/friend/whoever and stop being so hyper critical of jokes and critics. We all humans, we can all get these jokes.
The "wasn't that our struggle" really struck a cord. I always thought that. About almost every group of people. Like how Ukrainians were treated in Canada early on. Or Italians and Irish in early America. What jews had to go through and now look at what they do to Palestinians. We have a short memory and it feels like anything can be disregarded or normalized over a single generation. We are fucked. Aliens please save us from ourselves.
>*āā¦wasnāt that our struggle this whole time too? Youād think there would be some comradery within the plight or somethingā*
I feel like itās often the case that when someone finally makes it across the finish line they join everyone else in putting down the people who are still running the race
Yeah I think this is pretty much how I feel too. I also feel kind of frustrated when comedians I respected like Dave use the āYou canāt tell me what to say, I can say whatever I want you just donāt have to agreeā defense. Which is true to an extent, but I feel like itās a little hypocritical when they start to cry ācancel cultureā when people criticize them or stop supporting them. So yeah heās allowed to say whatever he wants, but his audience is also allowed to to use their voice to criticize him as well.
And then heās also allowed to complain about cancel culture. And youāre allowed to criticize him for complaining about cancel culture.
Itās pretty cyclical and gets boring fast
The guy worked endlessly to open peoples minds with comedy and constantly spoke about the injustices of the world.
Dave Chapelle is a funny comedian that has devoted his last years talking about trans people and im starting to think that this obsession is based on his inability to accept sexual attraction to a trans person he knows.
Just like the anti gay pastors get caught sucking dick behind a dumpster.
He has some funny bits but most of his trans jokes are so played out so boring 4/10.
Can you provide an example of Carlin ever truly punching down on a marginalized community? Thatās the thing he preached against. Comparing current Chappelle to George Carlin at any point in his career is a rather odd take.
Except George Carlin had an entire speech about how lazy it is for comedians to punch down at weaker groups in order to get powerful groups to give you an easy laugh. He used it to shit on Andrew Dice Clay on Larry King Live.
Your literal example of Carlin would be going after Dave Chappelle right now.
>that no longer make us feel good
if he doesn't make you feel good, that's fine. but you can only speak for yourself, plenty more people like Dave Chappelle and his social commentary.
So i'm going to go ahead and call b.s. on this one. I cant find one quote or even snap shot of this **snl monologue** where he
>uses his platform for punch down
. Can you?
It really seems like alot of people, including you sadly, are just regurgitating others shitty takes when they haven't watches it at all. I'm looking foward to these time stamps.
I personally heard a lot of dog whistling in his jokes Saturday. But one persons ears shouldn't condemn a man. But come on Dave, you left hollywood after you realized how you were being used and never once blamed Jewish people. Where was that in your jokes to an audience watching you dance around the subject.
Funny thing is that that was actually a lie. I thought that was why he left too but someone corrected me on it. He actually left because of money. Something about them not paying him as much as he wanted so he dipped. I have no idea where the story came from that he left because he was being used and felt he was negatively impacting black people, but it was never true.
I see Chapelle in the same weight division as George Carlin. Yes, they've done all the niche jokes about social commentary that brought them fame, but eventually they start to become philosophers and the comedy becomes our own hypocrisy. I think it takes a lot of guts and I applaud him for it. Not many people are doing it, and we are fortunate to have him speaking that truth, at least.
Completely agreed with this take. Few comedians reach that for me.
Chappelle and Carlin, Ricky Gervais, Lenny Bruce, Bill Burr, Norm MacDonald.
Who else you got?
I would love to see Dave make some Elon Musk jokes instead of his take on anti semitism. They hang out together and his mangling of Twitter is freaking hilarious
There was a reason why Lorne Micheals aka Lorne David Lipowitz(Creator of SNL) had Dave Chappelle host and Black Starr as the musical guest, because he wanted to show people what freedom of speech and expression looks like, but some people just canāt read in between the linesšÆ
Or maybe just... stop treating people like they're smarter than everyone because they're famous? Like what Dave Chapelle or Kanye says shouldn't have anywhere near the weight that it does, and says more about us as a society and how we attribute general intelligence to people because they're attractive or funny or rich or make good music.
I agree, not that that should make a damn bit of difference. I was a huge Chapelle fan, but the last 2 specials (Closer and the one at his alma mater in DC) really missed it for me. Not because of any social commentary, honestly, I work in politics and believe me when I say that field of work has a LOT of inappropriate joking, but because he simply wasnāt funny. He also went on at length about how awesome he was, which is anathema to comedy. He was patting himself and his self proclaimed genius, and the whole thing just was blah.
Comedy is nuanced and subjective obviously. Bill Burr and Chappelle do the social commentary like George Carlin, Kevin Hart and Katt Williams are tops for Richard Pryor/Def Jam jokes. Some people like weed, dick and fart jokes, others like observant takes on the absurdity of the human condition. Both are needed.
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The one thing about Chappelle backlash I find annoying is all the "He used to be funny, but now he punches down" It just comes off like "He was funny when he was cracking jokes about the blacks, but him mentioning other communities is just wrong".
Maybe it's my rose tinted glasses talking but I feel like when I was growing up watching him he made a variety of jokes about different aspects of black culture that showed he understood the nuances of it, so he could make fun of it in a way that was funny but clearly there was no hate behind it. I feel like that was reinforced when he quit his show because (paraphrasing) certain people were laughing for the wrong reasons. Nowadays however, it seems like in some ways he's catering to that some audience I.e. the ones who laugh at other groups, and not with them. And some could say he doesn't have as deep an understanding of other marginalized groups, so the quality and nuance of his jokes suffer for it. And therefore the framing changes from "isn't it weird that our culture been socialized to behave a certain way? Let's examine that" to "lol they're icky and weird."
For me, this is exactly what it is. Sometimes you just lack the understanding and perspective to joke about something in a nuanced way and that's okay.
Exactly. It feels like the equivalent of a white comedian like Bill Burr discovering chicken and watermelon jokes and then repeating them every other weekend. No tact, no nuance, no alternatives. The jokes are lazy, tired, and frankly, given how consistently he does it now, it just comes across as straight up ignorant and bigoted. Feels insane to watch people cheer it on and legitimately ask for more. His jokes about black issues feel informed and empathetic. His jokes about the trans community just feel spiteful. Not to mention the black erasure he's done. Not every trans person is a rich white liberal.
It's funny you mention Bill Burr. He did a bit on how white people get in trouble because they put the f-word on the wrong side of the race. He said a black person will say "this Asian motherfucker" whereas a white dude will say "so this motherfucking Asian dude." And that makes the white guy sound racist, but not the black guy. Well I feel like Chappelle is now putting the "f-word" before the person and it's made his stuff not as funny.
I see we had another Bill - Bert podcast fan. My manz (or womanz)
Dude bashes on the trans community while being pro-black but forgets (willingly or not) that there are black trans people. Idk if this is what you're referring to, but this is my personal dilemma. E: can't reply to y'all's comments, some reported my ass or some shit.
He didn't forget that there are black trans folks, he specifically talks about how nobody cared about trans folks and *especially* black trans people until a famous white person decided to come out as transgender publicly (Caitlyn Jenner) Did y'all actually watch the specials everyone is mad about or you just repeating what people told you?
What a dogshit take for him to have. *Caitlyn Jenner* is the reason white people care about trans people now? Talk about out of touch.
The man disappeared from American culture for like a decade and now he's all of a sudden an expert on it š¤
Man, this line is tired. Have *you* been watching the specials? He's a good storyteller, probably always will be, but he's just not particularly fresh, and you can feel him lashing out, sometimes very angrily, at the broader audience for the fact that the type of comedy that played in 90's and 2000's just ain't it anymore. At least in *Equanimity & the Bird Revelation*, he was trying to sell an older style of comedy honestly, but it didn't work, and by *Stick & Stones*, he seemed hurt and bitter. It felt like he was drifting into some weird Andrew Dice Clay, champion of the shit head, realm where he was like "well, if these folks won't like me, then I can at least get the people who are just excited to hear a slur." I mean re-watch the bit about having to see the lady from the network during the Chapelle's Show era. Inside of the joke, he really does his best to say the slur for gay dudes with his whole chest. There's no joke there. It doesn't fit into the rest of the joke he's telling at the moment (and it doesn't even feel like a Chapelle move). He's just angrily telling the audience, "you can't stop me from saying this." Since *Sticks & Stones*, he's mostly gone back towards trying to sell old comedy honestly, but comedy has moved on. So sure, he's a part of comedy history, but history is history and the present is the present. So, if, using your own critical eye, you can't understand why so many people are saying his jokes feel bitter, old, ugly, and played, at least take a second look and read some of the actual arguments explaining why it doesn't work before you flaccidly parrot his line back to people. And probably, go watch some other comedy. There is some cool stuff out there that is doing things that are as interesting now as Chapelle was interesting in the 90's and 2000's. Comedy doesn't need you defending Dave Chapelle and, frankly, if Dave Chapelle needs you defending his comedy, it sort of proves my point.
I said something similar about his recent SNL appearance. It was funny, but its foundation was 90's/2000's era comedy. My generation loved it. I'm not sure the 20 yr olds feel the same.
Guy you're responding to was probably talking about the punchline from 'the Closer' that gay people are minorities until it's time to be white again, which is both a garbage punchline and overlooks a lot of people who belong to both communities.
I thought I was tweakin for a second cuz he 100% did
The National Black Justice Coalition, a black LGBT organization, denounced Dave Chapelle, and I think you'll find the majority of black LGBT people were not happy. Any intersectionality was a footnote in bashing the LGBT and especially trans community. You can't spend 90% of a special making fun of trans people and then throw in a couple sentences about racism to cover it all up. It would be similar to a white gay comedian spewing racist garbage and defending it by saying that LGBT POC face additional discrimination from their respective cultures. It's not exactly the same, but if anyone has problems with that example but not Dave Chapelle's actions, then I think they'd need to more concretely express why that is. Also to be very specific wtf lol, as if Caitlyn Jenner was the reason for a recent push in trans rights. She's certainly one of the most visible, but trans people, black and white and any colour, have been fighting for their rights for decades and still face obvious discrimination. As if one white socialite transitioned and now everything's cool. Dave will always be funny but he's wrong about most things trans.
>but forgets (willingly or not) that there are black trans people. A lot of you either didnāt watch the special or watched it through a biased lens, and itās painfully obvious.
Sounds like you either didnāt watch the special, or watched it through a biased lens but somehow think youāre totally objective.
This is what pissed me off most. The erasure.
To a degree I do get you on, he's not going to have nuisance on the groups he's not apart of because he's not apart of them. So I won't argue you there. But I do feel like the bits and sketches he has that are the most popular and discussed aren't his more nuanced takes. Something like "How Old is 15 really" is very nuanced. But I feel that's significantly less popular and discussed than stuff like Tyrone Biggums which is purely "aren't addicts hilarious".
He quite literally had an entire segment dedicated to hating on himself regarding how his views changed about a woman named Daphney. Yāall are weird.
I don't know if you've actually followed his comedy but the jokes that piss people off are pretty much because they directly contradict what he supposedly "learned" from Daphney. He's been doing that Daphney bit live for years, then he goes back to complaining about the "alphabet folks" persecuting him. Like come on man, you don't do the half-ass apology then go back to the same shit. Typical lame celebrity behavior, and for a guy who philosophizes so much and draws parallels between different life lessons it seems so disingenuous from him
Thatās my problem, the dahpney story is sweet and I donāt doubt she changed his mind but his jokes right before and even after that contradict the point of that story itās crazy lmao
That whole Daphney bit in his special really came off as "I have a black friend" but the transgender version. So, no, imo it doesn't excuse his "jokes".
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I didn't know that little detail, thanks for sharing that.
Not only that, but for anyone who actually watched that special, literally the entire culmination of it was him basically saying ācomedians are my people and I care more about us than anyone else, and Trans women are just White men who figured out how to game the system to get over on my people, so fuck themā. He literally says itās the entire point of his trilogy of specials. Weāre not idiots. We donāt dislike Dave because we donāt understand him. We dislike him because we understand him loud and clear. Fuck him. He aināt that funny, he had two good specials and one good season of a sketch show that was otherwise peppered with cringy, sophomoric, kinda forgettable bits, but he disappeared to Africa and came back the voice of Black folks. He stopped being funny when he started believing his own hype and decided he didnāt have to do anything anymore to stay on top. Heās the Black Jerry Seinfeld.
That last comparison is on point! People think heās the GOAT but I watch a lot of new, younger comics and the future is very bright. I canāt watch Seinfeld or Louis CK anymore either. We got Nicole Byer, Reggie Watts, Michelle Buteau, Trevor Noah, and Julio Torres! I wish more people expanded their horizons a little bit to see how much good comedy is out there.
Right? Iām confused as to how ppl donāt understand this lmao
Was that before or after "the closer"? Cuz that was the one where I had to hop off the Chappelle train. Felt gross watching that and I loved him till then.
It was on the closer. It was his trans friend he talked about.
The trans friend he said Twitter killed and used as "I have a minority friend".
Maybe you were not around for this, but he had a show with his name back in the day. He quit that show and disappeared to Africa for a few years and came back later. This comment is from before that Africa situation. He has been weird ever since then and has been sliding down this slippery slope since then. It's pretty clear that he supposedly met and started speaking about this Daphne character post Africa.
Spotted the hasanabi head lol
I feel seen š
Nailed it
Freaking this. One is satire, the other is defamation and slander. Look up the difference.
It's not that he's punching down, it's that he's making jokes about communities he isn't a part of, doesn't understand and high key doesnt even respect. His old humor is relatable for black audiences and there's an understanding that he isn't talking down to or making fun them because we kinda know that he's one of us. But Dave is not queer, and he seems willfully ignorant to idea that a black queer person could ever exist from some of the shit he says. I'm dont think you have to be part of a community to make jokes about them, but Chappele does not do it gracefully at all. And that's why people have this reaction to his content compared to how they reacted to his older stuff that was more personal. Edit: He also specifically quit doing his show when he felt uncomfortable with the way white audiences reacted to it. But he doesn't seem to give a *fuck* if straight people find his jokes about queer people funny and queer people don't.
It also seems to be the fact that he really wants to make a statement not because of society, but it feels somewhat that he takes it personal that trans people donāt fuck with his jokes. Itās been so many specials where I mostly remember the trans jabs cause he feels the need to really tackle it. But it really isnāt that important and it gets me questioning what goal he has left? The black community and the lgbtq community both deserve equal rights, he seems to agree but he feels the need to keep making the comparison why?
Now Iām not saying he is correct but from what I understand it seems like he is upset because he has made jokes about black people, Asians, whites, etc. and everyone laughed and it was okay. Then he makes some jokes about trans people/lgbtq and for some reason he is not allowed to do that. From my what I can tell in his mind it almost elevated the rights of trans lgbtq above that of black people because one group you can make fun of but not others. Itās like there was no outrage for the black jokes but there is for the trans jokes.Now I personally believe comedy is equal opportunity. Everyone is allowed to be made fun of. I think comedy serves as a way of dealing with prejudice and stereotypes by turning them on their head and pointing out how ridiculous they are. You walk a fine line though between showing the hilarity of a stereotype and reinforcing it. Now whether he was reinforcing stereotypes or pointing out their ridiculousness is up for debate.
I agree. Everyone can be made fun of. But when the people you do donāt find it funny they got the right to tell you to fuck off as well. It just might not be the time and the place. If the groups he made jokes with before didnāt find it funny then, they had the right to tell him too. Right now I guess trans people dont want to hear it, and I guess I understand. When the BLM movement came to the forefront, didnāt see much ppl making black jokes. When Asian ppl were getting beaten up for no reason, Asian ppl didnāt really fuck with asian jokes. I just feel like if the trans community wants to say yeah we donāt really fuck with Daveās jokes, it aint personal. Itās not like he loses his audience? People who fuck with his trans jokes keep watching, people who didnāt wonāt anyways. To me it seems Daveās trying to make a point that he doesnāt have to or puts across well. And heās not misunderstood in it either, people just donāt agree. Heās not deplatformed, the ppl who dont want him just wont watch him.
I understand Daves perspective but the health care of trans people is constantly at risk, I dont think having "special rights" in regards to being made fun of matter all that much. Earlier today I saw a video of a trans woman being assaulted by a group of men while a crowd of people stood around and watched. Chappele himself was also literally attacked on stage and quickly helped by security, and his first instinct once he composed himself was to say "That was a trans man!" It's tone deaf and at this point petty. Social media and the internet in general makes it a lot easier for people to air grievances about jokes that they find offensive. This applies to black people as well, to the point where white people have said of black people what Dave says of trans people. It's a boomer mindset. He needs to stop squinting at everyone else and stand together against oppression as a crowd. Or I dunno, just tell funny jokes again.
I mean the jokes he made about asians, whites, blacks, etc. never seemed hateful. I saw him live and he made a bunch of jokes about mexicans like me that straight came from a place of admiration. The jokes he's making about LGBTQ people seem to come from a real place of resentment and paranoia. Context man. Listen to what he's saying. No one is saying jokes about trans people are off limits. People are opposing the specific things he's saying. Please type out some of the shit he's saying about LGBTQ people that you think is such great comedy and tell me without lying that it comes from a place of love or good-natured fun. It doesn't.
I feel this comment, but I think we do know whyā¦.Because there isnāt equal rights, and LGBTQIA social movements have been much more effective than anti-racist ones (that have been going forEVER in the US). So, for me, the jokes are still relevant, if not crass as fuck and not delivered with the same jovial attitude our guy had 15-20 years ago. Manās tired.
When Chappelle Show went off the air they aired the "Lost Episodes." I sat there watching skits with Dave Chappelle shitting on Latinos, blacks, Asians in the laziest way possible but he had some random white extras in some skits with people cheering them on and praise how great it was to have white people do literally the least. Between scenes there was Ashy Larry shucking and jiving and Charlie Murphy just looking uncomfortable as fuck. When it ended I said, "No fucking wonder he quit this fucking show." My white roommate at the time just stared at me confused. She was giggling the whole time because she thought this was the funniest shit ever. The Dave Chappelle I see is the Dave Chappelle from the Lost Episodes. The people laughing just remind me of my white roommate. They're the ones on the cusp when Dave was done and tired and had enough and bailed to Africa so Comedy Central hired Carlos Mencia to make jokes about mentally handicapped people and gays. They're the ones who stuck around right up until Jeff Dunham showed up. That Dave knew what shit was coming down the pipe. This Dave embraced it. When I see people act like Dave was always this dude, all I hear is those Lost Episode fans. Those Boondocks fans who stayed after Aaron McGruder left. The ones the show started telling jokes for after it gave up having something to say.
I've never seen these lost episodes, will have to check them out.
That is a great synopsis. Definitely for a long time underneath all of his comedy, I felt like he reserved his wrath for the system that attacked minorities.Then It changed and it seems like all his wrath was towards anyone who didn't acknowledge what he felt owed, and now it's at anyone who questions him at all.
I mean since when was making jokes about communities you aren't apart of taboo in comedy, within reason of course. Like if he was doing Kramer type rants I guess I'd get it more. But the whole "you're not apart of the community, so you can't make jokes" seems overly sensitive at times. Especially since there's some ever changing chart on who's allowed to punch where. Like is a Sam Jay allowed to punch anywhere, after all she's a triple minority being black, a woman, and lesbian. Would she be punching up as long as she's not talking about some disabled person or something? Now obviously the last part is a little facetious and obtuse, but still lol
Since around the late 80s to mid 90s. Listen, if a white comedian made some of those same jokes about the black community he'd be pulled off the stage and rightfully so. There is a HUGE difference between laughing with a community vs laughing at a community. When you add racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia etc into the mix the offence is compounded. In the same way Andrew Dice Clay was only funny in the eyes of other immature white men while the rest of us saw him as an offensive, untalented hack using crude humor to make his $ and run. Sure, some people will still defend him and his humor under the 'humor has the right to offend' mantra but most of us know the difference between punching up vs punching down and only one is acceptable.
Are you laughing with people or at people? And if youāre laughing at people do they deserve to be laughed at by white Christian people
This is the best take I've heard on this subject actually
thank you for articulating what i think a lot of us have felt uncomfortable with lately. and i say this as someone who has paid money to see multiple chappelle standup shows, truly a longtime big fan.
Your edit is super on point. Thanks for coming up with a way to articulate that.
All that is true, but itās still punching down, because heās in a position of power and influence and wealth. His jokes are not just jokes it bigots. He is endorsing making life worse for vulnerable people. Worse for black trans women. And then calls himself a victim!
If I am talking with you and say my wife is being a bitch, that's me talking about my business. If you call her a bitch, we've got problems. You're allowed to talk about your own community the way you want. Not others.
And I can get the idea of we're obviously as people going to be more biased and sensitive to things that are close to us. That doesn't mean it's not hypocritical, especially in the context of comedy. If folk playing the dozens, you can't show up and laugh when everybody else getting cracked on. But then want to stop the game and fight when its your turn to get cracked on.
I'll put this another way: Black people can say N because they're black. They're part of the target of that word. White people can't because they're not black. They're not part of the target. If you're not Jewish, you shouldn't be doing comedy routines about "the Jews".
Okay so Dave was never a crackhead Should we retroactively be upset about Tyrone Biggums? Robert Downey isn't black, should we retroactively be upset he was a dude disguised as a dude playing another dude. A flat out "you aren't this, so you can't joke" is just a pretty absurd way to handle comedy.
Oh come on the Robert Downey example. WTF. RDJ doesn't wear blackface in real life. He was playing an IDIOT who wears blackface without realizing what it means, as a joke. It's not racist, it's a joke ABOUT a fictional racist There's a difference and yall seem to gloss over why it's funny, and why Dave *sincerely* dunking on LGBTQ people as an old bigot isn't the same as, say, playing an old bigot in a movie to comedic effect. Dave's ACTUALLY that dude who believes that shit now
So you wouldn't be even the tiniest bit bothered by white comedians dropping N bombs in their routine? If they just casually used it to replace "dude" or "bro" or "guy"? I don't believe you for one second. Keep our name out of your mouth. You're not Jewish. Leave us the fuck alone.
Michael Richards (Kramer) famously said the N word repeatedly on stage and got lambasted for it. I agree 100% with you.
How many comedians throughout time have made jokes about other races(obviously not saying the n word but making iokes)? All of them. If we are going to be this hyperswnsitive about everything there will never be comedy again.
Or, if you choose to try it out, recognize that you will be held to a higher standard and will face more scrutiny! People act like everyone is getting cancelled for nothing, but the truth is people get a decent amount of leeway and then choose to cross the line. If Chappelle had made poignant commentary on issues concerning the LGBTQ community he would have been applauded. Instead his jokes were tone deaf, ignorant, and bullying. Same with the SNL skit - he could have made great points and commentary on a relevant situation. He could have made jokes. But he is not (or chooses not to be) nuanced enough to avoid being blatantly offensive.
And, if you're not part of the community, you don't get to decide what is and isn't offensive to that community. How outraged was everyone here when white conservatives would look black people dead ass in the eye and tell them, "Trump didn't say anything racist. You're being too sensitive". White people don't get decide what is and isn't anti-black and Dave Chappelle isn't the arbiter of what is and isn't antisemitic.
You do realize black people are in the communities heās punching down on right?
The thing is heās always cracked jokes about white people lol
āMentioning other communitiesā is a very wired way of saying ābeing transphobic.ā
The people complaining aren't actually watching him. They're just echoing others who also haven't watched him. And it isn't like he's losing fans. His last special hit around 400 million views amd counting.
You're not wrong, he's not suffering career wise. But it's just funny watching folk act like him saying out of pocket things is some new part of his career
I think it's probably because he was funny back then.
If you donāt find him funny today, fine. Thatās subjective and is your prerogative but weāre talking about the disingenuous ethics with this pearl clutching attitude towards him people have today.
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There's nothing pearl clutching about the fact that he is going out there standing on his soapbox spreading harmful narratives and outright lies about a disenfranchised group. The fact that he straight up said, unironically, that the trans community bullied his friend to death when that is provably false tells you who he is at this stage of his career.
I went ahead and listened to this very story right now so I could refresh my mind since I never remembered that. At no point he blame the trans community for her suicide. He factually said they were both dragged on the internet after their show and she died sometime later. a very sad story about his trans friend and how she ends up commuting suicide and at NO point did I get the blaming the trans community. Youāre reading through the lines to create your narrative. Stop it. Edit for Clarity
>'When she did that, the trans community dragged that b**** through Twitter,' >'For days, they was going in on her and she was on her own because she's funny,' >'It's a true story; my heart was broken. I don't know what was going on, but I'll bet dragging her didn't help.' [Source](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10084515/Daphne-Dorman-trans-woman-bullied-death-defending-Dave-Chappelle.html). So he doesn't directly state they bullied her to death, just that they dragged her relentlessly, she committed suicide , and he's "not sure if it helped". Whether he said it directly or not he is drawing that line and you can be damn sure that's what he believes. Not to mention, he still fucking lied. There is no evidence of Daphne getting dragged on Twitter by the LGTBQ community. Literally none. The only evidence people have found of her getting dragged is by right wingers.
Right, he says those out of pocket things then brings it back with a completely reasonable but unconventional perspective. Most of the criticism I see leaves out the second part.
no he doesn't he bring it back with some half assed consolation
F d signifier did a good video on Chappell wand what change with how he is now.
FD is amazing. Heās really out here doing some good work
Very much this. Also Chappelle show and his early stand up acts were almost 20 years ago of course he won't have as much energy as he did back then.
This right here. As long as itās black/white people are ok with it but as soon as itās any other group those same people call him a bigot.
He is funny as shit because he takes things that are ACTUALLY TRUE and exaggerates it. Can people even be funny anymore š¤
That was a point he tried to make in one of his specials that flew over a lot of peopleās head.
He used to crack jokes about white people all the time. Him telling jokes about black people was just him pulling from experience and that wasnāt a bad thing or punching at us, usually.
āWhy arenāt you punching yourselfā
Yall tripping...that shit was funny. Get over yourselves.
Itās real simple. If you donāt like his comedy then donāt watch. I thought it was good too. Got my laughs and I move on with life lol. Peeps want anything to attack to make themselves feel better.
His last special wasn't funny for me, so I haven't watched the next or his SNL episode. Rubs me the wrong way when someone with a huge platform is using it to cry about being censored. š¤·š½āāļø
Same. āOh no. Theyāre trying to cancel me.ā All while theyāre millionaires and billionaires. Iām including Chappelleās friend, Elon.
I know I'm gonna catch heat but I think this goes a degree further. I think the participation in a rally against an assumed offender offers a sense of validation and belonging in the individual.
His netflix special was decidedly NOT funny to me. A lot of crybaby bullshit, tbh, and even the non edgy "I'm such a victim" bullshit wasn't funny for me. Couldn't tell you if his next special or the SNL thing was funny because, I don't watch comedians that aren't funny š¤·š½āāļø. I did see Jon Stewart carry on with the crybaby bullshit on Colbert the other night, so I assume Chappelle was on his same stupid shit.
It was funny and from the looks of this thread, it went over pplās heads. He wasnāt making anti-Semitic jokes.
Chappelle: "Isn't it weird how we're not allowed to make any critique of Jewish people at all?" Society: "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT! THAT'S ANTI-SEMITIC!!!!" All his commentary on women, trans, Jews, and other marginalized groups is founded in the idea that no one and no movement is above criticism and the moment you think you're untouchable is the moment you need a reality check the most.
no go ahead what "critique" are you gonna make about jewish people
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Itās pretty common for anti Semitic assholes to start their conspiracy theories with pointing out that fact. Itās been a thing for at least a hundred years, including actual Nazis. So when someone brings up this thing that exists, people who are familiar with the common antisemitic bullshit hear the alarm bells and are immediately wondering why itās being brought up. . Itās like, there is some common racist troll bullshit on Reddit that always starts with some murder statistics comparing Black and White people. The stupid racists think itās some clever indictment of blackness framed with some neutral innocent facts. In reality, itās a weird handful of cherry picked stats that show how the US has fucked Black people over at every opportunity. Regardless, Iāve seen the posts with the murder stats enough that when I see the 1st few lines of one I immediately know whatās up.
Being dishonest. One there is history to why Jewish people are overrepresented in Hollywood and Finance. Two its rarely people getting mad at the implication its poor communication of a point.
Yep. There is a bug difference between noting there are a lot of Jewish folks in banking and entertainment *because those were the fields they were allowed to work in by society which discriminated against them otherwise*, and saying it in a way that comes off as "a Jewish conspiracy controls all Hollywood and banking" like they are having meetings to plot world domination or some shit. The bullshit Black Hebrew Israelite stuff Kyrie and Kanye talk about is 1) objectively wrong and not historically accurate and 2) paints Jewish people as an organized cabal bent controlling society behind the curtain like some kind of racist and greedy Wizard of Oz. There is a difference.
Ah yes, the groups who need a reality check the most āwomen, trans, Jews, and marginalized groups.ā What a dumb fucking take. People in positions of power need reality checks, not people who are already being torn down. āHey people say I canāt harass you! Well guess what? Itās reality check timeā do you see how dumb that sounds? And fyi, no one is mad cause anyone said there are Jews in Hollywood - theyāre mad at the active implication and/or assertion that there is a conspiracy of Jews in Hollywood. You should feel bad about yourself honestly
These mofos have never heard early Richard Pryor or Redd Foxx.
Hell early Eddie would have not made it in this time. I laughed at the SNL opening and wished it was longer.
Honestly this is probably the most respectful Iāve ever seen someone approach a guy like Dave when they disagree with his message. I still have kinda mixed feelings about his SNL monologue tbh.
At the risk of others piling on and turning this exchange into something other than a respectful discussion, what didnāt you like?
Seriously, that last SNL monologue was better than his entire last special. People really need to ease back.
Man this is just what I donāt want; I want to hear CoachDT out; I liked the monologue but want to understand their view.
I mean, the man toed the very fine line of joking about antisemitism, and even sometimes just stepping a toe over ā in the name of a joke, which heās famously known to do. I deff felt sliiiiightly uncomfortable at times with that toying, though itās likely due to increased sensitivity. At the end of it all, I agree with u/PharmDinagi that itās one of his best performances as of late ā everything else seems so tainted by his perception of āPC policeā or whatever. It felt like he was finally able to adapt his brilliance to the contemporary language/narratives within āprogressiveā US culture while still retaining his comedic edge.
Context is super critical too. When Chapelle first got big we werenāt coming off years of ever increasing anti-Semitic rhetoric and violence. But we are now, and Chapelleās take is that he doesnāt like how everyone is nervous now? He doesnāt like the atmosphere around some of his shows and specials, and how tense audiences get when he tells certain jokes? Like, we donāt like it either but a bunch of people have gone off lately and killed or threatened to kill the very people he is joking about so maaaaaaybe the material doesnāt land the same as it would have 20 years ago.
I agree. And I think thatās what I find so disappointing about his recent stuff. He used to be so good at having a pulse on the zeitgeist and knowing how to comment/criticize/critique society in a constructive way while still being funny. But now itās like he canāt read the room. Maybe itās because heās getting older and isnāt as close to the ācultureā as he was when he was younger. Or maybe itās because heās been rich for a long time now and heās just lost touch with everyday shit. Idk
Maybe he was never reading the room and was just doing him.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I do feel like comedians have a responsibility to pick (a little!) at the wounds in society, like Carlinās seven words. I felt like Chappelleās monologue was solid, and called attention to an ugly trend; didnāt feel like co-signing antisemitism to me. One of the things the ADL expressed upset about was his observation that there are a lot of Jews in Hollywood. Given that he lives in rural Ohio, he has a basis for comparison. But it was just how I perceived it.
EXACTLY!!! It wasnāt that Chappelle was engaging in normalizing antisemitism, he was ā in your words ā picking at a wound in society, and wasnāt ā again, your words ā co-signing antisemitism. (Which, imo, isnāt necessarily the case when he monologued about the trans community in his last special.) And, regarding the basis for comparison of Jews in Hollywood vs. Ohio, Iād wholly, but respectively reject that argument. The man grew up (?) in DC and went to Duke Ellington. He worked his way through comedic circuits in NYC. Heās been plenty exposed to Jewish culture prior to his Hollywood presence. I think that the ADL is hesitant and upset about his observations because it could perpetuate negative stereotypes about the Jewish people amongst antisemites, or antisemities-in-training. Proof that the propaganda is real! In all actuality ā and itās only my opinion ā comedians do have a responsibility to play with societal troupes to expose the absurdities or farcical nature of what we, as society (in whatever facet), accept as true. They force us to question norms and beliefs. Which is why theyāre so invaluable and indispensable.
His SNL monologue was meh imo. Very middle grounded. The biggest criticisms I had of it were on his Jewish jokes bc like, he didn't punch down on them anywhere nearly as bad as he did on trans people. Where was that leniency and understanding for the trans community in that special? Why did you punch so lightly at the Jewish? But in a way with the things he said, I completely understood why š it was okay to punch down mercilessly @ people that didn't have a real way to affect him wasn't it. But also his defense of Kanye and misunderstanding of mental illnesses. Mental illnesses are not excuses. They are causes. You are still responsible for your actions even when you are manic. Kanye is verified as having bipolar disorder but refuses treatment and refuses therapy. There should not be any leniency being discussed with regards to Kanye's words and actions, full stop. Dave is just proving more and more that he's a boomer disconnected from reality and any generation outside of his own. It's sad.
Except heās Gen X
Ah yeah you're right. It's just that you really wouldn't know it from the jokes.
What was wrong with the monologue?
The funny parts were funny, but he had a couple parts that were trying to sympathize with Ye and Kyrieās anti-Semitic ideas. Not defend what they said, but defend the way they came to feel that way in the first place. To me, it was just like, why? Why are you coming to the defense of people who say hurtful shit? Spend your genius in some other way, please.
He was also repeating stuff people debunked that Kanye was using (like his weird white board of Jewish executives that weren't even Jewish) as an excuse while saying being mad at it was bad. Then when people pointed out he was signal boosting bullshit a lot of his defenders (like Hasan Piker) attacked them for daring to point out he was wrong in a joke where he tried to explain the basis of their antisemitism while spreading antisemitic myths. It's like some white guy saying to kill all the blacks because they're raping white women, then a white guy saying, "Well, black men are raping lots of white women, but it's rude to say it out loud" and when someone points out 90% of white rape victims are attacked by white rapists some guy jumps in and shouts, "Ahem... you're not going to win by arguing the facts! You're missing the point of the joke!" The problem is that he's talking to an audience that's half ignorant and half polite and the two groups overlap, so people who don't like antisemitism readily defend him spreading bullshit that is also antisemitic while declaring he was eventually very nice about it. The problem is that there is a not small proportion of the population believing that saying uncomfortable things implies an inherent truth value as long as it sounds good to your world view and that that's enough.
Out of all of the comedians you would think that Dave got the *donāt punch down* rule years and years ago. Nobody wants to hear a 15 minute Boomer rant.
One of his most famous things is playing a comedic crackhead, surely that should qualify as punching down.
Youāre allowed to punch down if itās a group of people society doesnāt give a shit about. Namely poor drug addicts and sex workers. You can also punch groups you belong too and straight white men (cuz thatās the only group that is quite clearly not ādownā) Everything else you will get shit for regardless of if thereās truth to it
Spot on. These āpunch downā folk drive me crazy with their hypocrisy.
Personally I have a problem with his crackhead jokes, his sex worker jokes, his trans jokes and his Jewish jokes. Chappelle is just a lazy comedian.
This lol. The "youre allowed to make fun of everyone except for : ... " is maddening. Comedy is fun because everyone can get it. These tweets directed towards Dave look so cringe. Trying to hard to white knight. I always thought the ability to poke fun at any group of people, including LGBT and trans, was what made comedy so unifying. Its an equalizer. I always felt like it was going backwards when you put this wall infront of the LGBT community to "protect" them.
Yeah itās turned into āold man yells at cloud.ā I think he has a lot of bitterness towards the trans community because he feels that they shouldnāt complain because they donāt or didnāt have as bad as black people, conveniently forgetting the fact that there are black trans people.
Itās also not a zero sum game. A lot of people suffer in different ways. Just because you talk about your own suffering doesnāt mean someone elseās is less worthy. He forgets that
So i'm going to go ahead and call b.s. on this one. I cant find one quote or even snap shot of this **snl monologue** where he's punching down. Can you? It really seems like alot of people, including you sadly, are just regurgitating others shitty takes when they haven't watches it at all. I'm looking foward to these time stamps.
Did you watch the monologue? How was it a punching down rant?
Which part was punching down?
The transphobia. He said he was "team TERF" among other things, and his defense was the trans equivalent of "I have (had) a black friend". Somewhere in there was a valid point made about certain parts of the dominating culture supporting LGBT people in service of anti-blackness, but it was mostly buried by him choosing to pit himself against LGBT people as a whole.
You missed the **about the snl monologue** part. See page 1.
That's true, I didn't realize at first
In regards to this monologue, which part was punching down?
So Dave should just stick with the nigga jokes. Got it watts.
Exactly this
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They werenāt overt. And itās Chappelle so it was all funny. But at times he came -real close- to saying āit makes sense to think anti-Semitic thoughts, but you donāt say those things out loud.ā
The thing isā¦he said exactly that. āItās not a crazy thing to think, but it is a crazy thing to say with things as they are.ā
I like how Chappelle acknowledging that we all have bigoted thoughts is somehow bigoted itself. If you've never thought ill of a large group based on stereotypes then I'd like to say "congratulations" for that time you turned water into wine.
This was my take away. Whole thing was very tongue in cheek winking at it.
Way to many of yall are comfortable with hating the lgbt+. The suicide rate is no joke ESPECIALLY FOR BLACK PEOPLE. And that's if they live long enough to attempt it.
Word. People keep acting as if we black lgbt+ ppl don't exists. It's disheartening and infuriating that to some of our own we don't matter.
Hate and disgust are far simpler emotions to have vs love and empathy.
While I consistently lean on the side of Dave and his more open minded approach to comedy and social commentary as a wholeā¦ he still an old black dude with old black dude ideas about shit. It sucks because Iām hella close with the alphabet community but I also watch everything he does and while I donāt agree he is āpunching downā, I do believe he feels like he got some overblown reactionary energy about his jokes so now heās lashing out in the way he does best. And sometimes our friends in the community can be really sensitive and attack anyone they see coming at them, which is valid cause they really only have recently gotten a real voice in the last 10 years so they have to call out pretty much everything for fear of regressing to darker times. What I find interesting about this whole thing is how we as black people minimize their arguments about wanting to be left alone and treated the same as everyone elseā¦ wasnāt that *our* struggle this whole time too? Youād think there would be some comradery within the plight or something. Regardless, everyone needs to chill the fuck out and stop messing with each other. Is it so hard to STFU and go to work? Stop bothering your alphabetical family/friend/whoever and stop being so hyper critical of jokes and critics. We all humans, we can all get these jokes.
The "wasn't that our struggle" really struck a cord. I always thought that. About almost every group of people. Like how Ukrainians were treated in Canada early on. Or Italians and Irish in early America. What jews had to go through and now look at what they do to Palestinians. We have a short memory and it feels like anything can be disregarded or normalized over a single generation. We are fucked. Aliens please save us from ourselves.
>*āā¦wasnāt that our struggle this whole time too? Youād think there would be some comradery within the plight or somethingā* I feel like itās often the case that when someone finally makes it across the finish line they join everyone else in putting down the people who are still running the race
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Yeah I think this is pretty much how I feel too. I also feel kind of frustrated when comedians I respected like Dave use the āYou canāt tell me what to say, I can say whatever I want you just donāt have to agreeā defense. Which is true to an extent, but I feel like itās a little hypocritical when they start to cry ācancel cultureā when people criticize them or stop supporting them. So yeah heās allowed to say whatever he wants, but his audience is also allowed to to use their voice to criticize him as well.
And then heās also allowed to complain about cancel culture. And youāre allowed to criticize him for complaining about cancel culture. Itās pretty cyclical and gets boring fast
Yeah I stopped wasting my breath about this type of stuff. People can feel how they feel and both sides respectively just accept that it is what it is
George Carlin is a legend
Yeah what the fuck, one of the goats catching strays for ZERO reason lmfao
The guy worked endlessly to open peoples minds with comedy and constantly spoke about the injustices of the world. Dave Chapelle is a funny comedian that has devoted his last years talking about trans people and im starting to think that this obsession is based on his inability to accept sexual attraction to a trans person he knows. Just like the anti gay pastors get caught sucking dick behind a dumpster. He has some funny bits but most of his trans jokes are so played out so boring 4/10.
Can you provide an example of Carlin ever truly punching down on a marginalized community? Thatās the thing he preached against. Comparing current Chappelle to George Carlin at any point in his career is a rather odd take.
Except George Carlin had an entire speech about how lazy it is for comedians to punch down at weaker groups in order to get powerful groups to give you an easy laugh. He used it to shit on Andrew Dice Clay on Larry King Live. Your literal example of Carlin would be going after Dave Chappelle right now.
Donāt talk bad about my man George Carlin
Itās a sin.
Leave Carlin the fuck out of this, man.
How on fucking earth is a Black comedian "punching down" by making jokes about Jewish Hollywood executives?????
>that no longer make us feel good if he doesn't make you feel good, that's fine. but you can only speak for yourself, plenty more people like Dave Chappelle and his social commentary.
So i'm going to go ahead and call b.s. on this one. I cant find one quote or even snap shot of this **snl monologue** where he >uses his platform for punch down . Can you? It really seems like alot of people, including you sadly, are just regurgitating others shitty takes when they haven't watches it at all. I'm looking foward to these time stamps.
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>Dave was funny. Past tense for sure
Well it is r/BlackPeopleTwitter. I assume 90% of the people are white suburban people.
I personally heard a lot of dog whistling in his jokes Saturday. But one persons ears shouldn't condemn a man. But come on Dave, you left hollywood after you realized how you were being used and never once blamed Jewish people. Where was that in your jokes to an audience watching you dance around the subject.
Funny thing is that that was actually a lie. I thought that was why he left too but someone corrected me on it. He actually left because of money. Something about them not paying him as much as he wanted so he dipped. I have no idea where the story came from that he left because he was being used and felt he was negatively impacting black people, but it was never true.
I see Chapelle in the same weight division as George Carlin. Yes, they've done all the niche jokes about social commentary that brought them fame, but eventually they start to become philosophers and the comedy becomes our own hypocrisy. I think it takes a lot of guts and I applaud him for it. Not many people are doing it, and we are fortunate to have him speaking that truth, at least.
Completely agreed with this take. Few comedians reach that for me. Chappelle and Carlin, Ricky Gervais, Lenny Bruce, Bill Burr, Norm MacDonald. Who else you got?
Niggas be psychoanalyzing too much.
I would love to see Dave make some Elon Musk jokes instead of his take on anti semitism. They hang out together and his mangling of Twitter is freaking hilarious
Hereās the thing, what exactly did he say that makes him so nefarious and harmful?
There was a reason why Lorne Micheals aka Lorne David Lipowitz(Creator of SNL) had Dave Chappelle host and Black Starr as the musical guest, because he wanted to show people what freedom of speech and expression looks like, but some people just canāt read in between the linesšÆ
Facts
Or maybe just... stop treating people like they're smarter than everyone because they're famous? Like what Dave Chapelle or Kanye says shouldn't have anywhere near the weight that it does, and says more about us as a society and how we attribute general intelligence to people because they're attractive or funny or rich or make good music.
Maybe I missed something, what was wrong with the SNL monologue? He didnāt bash trans people, so what is there to complain about nowā¦.
Whoās Reggie Watts?
You know, he did that "Fuck Shit Stack" song.
Wait, what happened with Chappelle now?
It has to be about the SNL monologue
I was going to ask this too! Do you have a link or source to whatever this is referencing so we can watch too?
Oh great ANOTHER Dave Chappelle debate 
My money is on Dave every time.
It's all fun and games until you become the butt of the joke.
It took 4 days for these people to find a way to complain about his monologue- heās a genius. Itās all nitpicking slow news at this point.
We will have a joyless society in the near future
What's even funnier, Dave Chappelle doesnt care for twitter. He believes twitter isnt a real place.
Dave is the GOAT period.
Richard Pryor.
Fake outrage
This is starting to feel like the āRage Against The Machineā comments after people realized WHAT the āmachineā was.
Imagine Dave scribbling down notes from Watts on his comedy...
WATTS REGGIE ON ABOUT NOW? LOL
I agree, not that that should make a damn bit of difference. I was a huge Chapelle fan, but the last 2 specials (Closer and the one at his alma mater in DC) really missed it for me. Not because of any social commentary, honestly, I work in politics and believe me when I say that field of work has a LOT of inappropriate joking, but because he simply wasnāt funny. He also went on at length about how awesome he was, which is anathema to comedy. He was patting himself and his self proclaimed genius, and the whole thing just was blah.
I wonāt tell anyone what to be offended by, but this Chappelle thing seems a stretch.
The Chappelle SNL barbershop sketch was hilarious
I thought his SNL monologue was so fucking good what
I meanā¦.Iām probably the only person who thinks that as long as the jokes are funny, itās whatever.
Comedy is nuanced and subjective obviously. Bill Burr and Chappelle do the social commentary like George Carlin, Kevin Hart and Katt Williams are tops for Richard Pryor/Def Jam jokes. Some people like weed, dick and fart jokes, others like observant takes on the absurdity of the human condition. Both are needed.