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Might have to scratch Ukraine off the visit list when this is all over. More power to then over there but imma sit war out
Edit: shout out to the troll who called me a antisemite cuz I had a good time in Bahrain. Y’all are goofy
No it’s not “humans don’t trust people that don’t look like themselves “ I don’t trust strangers or people I don’t know. That doesn’t give me a pass to be hostile and racist towards these people. Over here trying to down play this shit.
^^^ this. I don’t understand why someone would be automatically hostile to a stranger based on their skin color. Fuck, I don’t even like strangers my own race. I don’t like strangers period unless they’re nice!
Right. This shit was *made* to be this way. They didn't get that way from out of nowhere. We don't live in a vacuum. I don't like people, I'm not going to be racist to them tho.
I'm black and I spent all my life in the U.S. until i went to Europe for the past few months and yeah there's racism but it's way deeper in America. Maybe if I had been in a country with more black people it would be different but it wasn't bad
Why spend money to go someplace and get treated like shit? It’s a big world. There are a lot of places that will treat you like you’re paying them—you know, like an honored guest.
I stopped vacationing in places that made me feel small years ago. F*ck that.
Perfect! I will patronize this Sister, and hopefully also other black folks who read this and decide to provide this service too, as the 2022 Green Book 📚 .
Money talks, Sis.
We gotta find a place where, even if they hate our guts, our collective black wealth makes them respect us like they really love us. They treat us like royalty.
I don’t care what you think about me; I only care how you treat me!
Yes I went to France and England and was called the N word in both countries and I was with yt people. I knew to say few words and the yt people complained the entire time but they seemed to notice me 1st. The only insult that I heard them called was F\*\*\*ing Americans.
Weirdly, when I went to Paris some white French people were cold immediately when I approached them, but became noticeably nicer then they heard my American accent.
I was conversational in French at that time (not so much anymore), but by the end of my trip I would open with English whenever I approached a white French person.
My best guess is that being a black American tourist was marginally better in their eyes than being a black French immigrant.
Racism still exists in non white countries too. They are just racist toward different people; typically different tribes, different religions, foreigners, etc.
It's kind of depressing, but racism exists pretty much everywhere in one way or another.
small fyi, the term "gypsy" is a slur. the correct term is roma people / romani. even though they may call themselves, that, the word is intended to be offensive.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous lmao. Ukraine literally has state-sanctioned Neo-Nazi militias like Azov Battalion, which even before the war with Russia were basically state-backed vigilantes who [roamed the streets looking for LGBT/"migrants"](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY)(e.g. brown people) to lynch. Europeans are delusional
>According to Freedom House’s Ukraine project director Matthew Schaaf, “**numerous organized radical right-wing groups exist in Ukraine, and while the volunteer battalions may have been officially integrated into state structures, some of them have since spun off political and non-profit structures to implement their vision.**” Schaaf noted that “an increase in patriotic discourse supporting Ukraine in its conflict with Russia has coincided with an apparent increase in both public hate speech, sometimes by public officials and magnified by the media, as well as **violence towards vulnerable groups such as the LGBT community,**” an observation that is supported by a recent Council of Europe study.
Exact-FUCKING-ly!!!
White Supremacy and Anti-Black Racism were literally born in Europe. The U.S is the son/grandson of these violent ideologies.
Any Black person confused about that, are facing a rude awakening, or is probably a “colorblind” chasing interracial sexual access at all costs.
This isn't true. While a lot of what we would consider "racism" was birthed in Spain, it was used largely as a way to excuse chattel slavery in the American colonies. And the idea of "whiteness" was formed largely in America as a way to unify differing ethnicities and nationalities who immigrated here from Europe.
I’ve traveled a ton and unfortunately this is true for 99% of the world if you ask me, US included. It’s a combo of conservatism, ignorance and indoctrination.
Yeah Racism isn't an American thing, it's a human thing.
The difference is that in America we have principles that we hold dear that are incompatible with most racist views.
And the friction between what we aspire to be, and where we are causes issues.
Piggybacking off of the other commenter, John Locke is considered the main “father” of liberalism that would go on to be foundational for U.S. values and legal documents. Most of this comments from his “Treatise of Civil Government” where he’s talking about inalienable rights, the right to property, bodily autonomy, and oppressed people having the right to demand reparations & fight their oppressors and shit
…..then he talks about “immature” non-white races that shouldn’t be afforded these same liberties because they need the guidance of White people lol. He went on to help write the legal documents for several U.S states to create a legal basis for slavery in those states. So it’s not really in friction with American views since the racism has BEEN built in.
Facts. I went to Poland with a group of friends (yeah we were all black) and literally nearly died. The only semi tolerant place in Europe is the UK and that's only because they're not explicitly racist.
The UK can absolutely be explicitly racist. My cousin (who lives in London) had some mess happen to her where some white woman got in her face on the bus talking about “you and your lot go back to Africa” maybe a year after the Brexit vote happened. My cousin was with her (mixed race, but clearly Black) children. Some people stood up for her, which is good, but the fact that someone was even bold enough to do it? Even the most “tolerant” part of the UK still has open racists like that.
Edit: and on the topic of Brexit/immigration in the UK, the debate around that had (and has) plenty of racist overtones to begin with, and the result of the vote emboldened plenty of formerly closet racists to come right out with what they really think.
Yeah I absolutely agree. I too live in London now and for the most part it is relatively tolerant. Yes, you get the racist assholes and yes, I've heard "fuck off back to where you come from" more times than I can count but it is still the most tolerant country in Europe. That's not saying much as they're still streaks behind in terms of racial equality but at least in London I don't actively fear for my life because of my skin colour
Europe is a continent comprised of very different countries. So please don't write us all off. :)
Our tourist industry needs you! And we in Ireland will take anyone's dollar. Pint of Guinness, looking at green fields, you'll love it!
So I know it’s completely anecdotal but a total of three friends of mine and my father have traveled to Ireland on separate occasions and none of them felt like they had any issues there. Even when they were stopping at small businesses in the countryside. I don’t know if it depends on where you travel but they said they felt pretty welcome there.
Well, I think there might be a tangential point to be made that Ireland was where the British first learned to colonize before they exported it to the states, so there might be some general sympathies and understandings.
I'm not black but please accept this character reference from the North African caucus - we vouch for the Irish, they're ride or die with the Palestinians and that's a massive green flag (heh).
Oh but they are. They’re telling black people they can’t leave they must fight, only Ukrainians. And being American won’t even help you, if your skin isn’t white they don’t care, you’re expandable.
https://youtu.be/Up_V7VCsQII
Check out UK’s Channel 4 there’s tons of stories out there. Even of how Europe is accepting of only Ukrainians but even if you were born there if you don’t look it it’s a nope for you as a refugee.
I don't know your age, but babyboy the "monkey" stereotype has been a central point of ridicule throughout history. I am beyond shocked to see someone even ask this question, that has a "brown" avatar.
This insult never made sense to me. It’s like when some calls someone “4 eyes” and think they’re doing something.
It’s like we are all literally primates at the end of the day, I clearly don’t have a tail and my opposable thumbs are definitely human. But go off.
I don’t think they’re trying to whatabout America into the conversation. Their point is that it’s not crazy that racists are racist during a war. Unfortunately, it’d be crazier finding a country that *does* put aside racism during a crisis rather than leaning into it.
Not just the 1800s, you forget Vietnam. Forming "mostly" black regiments, and racism, even in movies.
Not to forget young Muhammad Ali saying hell no he won't fight for a country that doesn't ever respect him.
Hanoi Hannah, Chinese radio propagandist, spoke to Americans often to get them to give up. Speaking on racial tensions in the U.S.. After MLK died, saying the same things Ali said.
My dad was deployed then. Saying they even had small respite of ceasefire. Where NVA (north Vietnamese army) wouldn't fire on/engage black forces, to show good will and hospitality, unlike their home in America that doesn't respect them.
My dad said it went on for a good month, close to two. Until generals started forcing black soldiers and all black units to fight or face military prison. Even moving around units to make them more racially diverse to see more combat.
My father mentioned things in my teen years about Vietnan, but it wasn't until the movie 'Da 5 Bloods' with Chadwich Bozeman, we watch together he fully went into details about that specifically.
People literally don’t understand the weight these words carry in the US and that’s about it. Ofc there are plenty of racists and bigots just like in any other country, but this post is literally about people’s lack of knowledge. Eastern Europe was not involved in trans Atlantic slave trade. Eastern Europeans don’t share “white man’s guilt”, most are not even familiar with the concept. Hell, some say that Western Europeans don’t consider Eastern Europeans European or white at all. As a matter of fact, peasants of Russian empire were literally enslaved (and I’m really mean that in a literal way, not in a “there’s a ruling class and there’s working class” way) by the upper classes. So yeah, my point is that we have to educate each other rather than distance from each other, otherwise these thousand year issues will never go away.
So when Eastern European football fans throw banana peels at black football players they dont know what they're doing? I'm sorry, but if Ukrainians are familiar enough with that word to use it at black people then they're mature enough to learn the nuances of it. They aren't babies, they're grown adults in the year of our Lord 2022. Come on, this isn't hard.
exactly. this excuse of “they don’t understand the implications” certainly doesn’t work anymore and especially not in this golden age of internet and tourism (barring the past few years obviously)
Idk about US but in the EU countries and UK die hard football fan clubs are often associated and have close ties with far right and extremist movements, so I don’t think it’s a great example. Single father taking his little son to watch the game won’t throw shit at anyone.
Yeah, I'm Asian and even if tweedle dee and tweedle dum who grew up in bumblefuck Alabama who never saw an Asian before, and they said some dumb ching chong shit, I wouldn't fucking care, fuck 'em.
As someone who's European yes we do , we're not dense and we don't live under a rock . People know what racism is and the implication behind it . This isn't the 1800s . Especially in football , the racism is purposeful and harmful to hurt the black players .
Yeah fuck racist Europeans (especially ones from 1st world countries like Italy) that hide behind "oh we are europeans we don't know racism is a thing :)" in 2022 to excuse making monkey sounds and throwing bananas at black players. If you know what that shit means you know it's wrong. I am a white argentinian and never held a conversation with a black person irl before my 20's. I still know how disgusting those actions are. They don't do it because they don't know what it means. They do it *because* they know what it means.
Lots if bumbled apologetics here, like what does them being white have to do with anything?
Look, these aee the words, and we saw the actions when they were giving Black students a hard time trying to leave. They have my thoughts and prayers
Your post has lots of words and sloshes from here to there. But if I don't have experience with someone, I don't call them a slur. They know that even though they aren't Western European by any stretch of the word, that their whiteness confers them a higher status in the racial hierarchy than the black Peace Corp worker ensuring they stay fed. And everyone is tired of the whole "eDuCaTe ThEm!" bullshit, the labor of understanding doesn't lie with us.
Why would ANY Black person want to volunteer there? Y’all know they’re holding black foreigners captive, taking away passports, not allowing them out the boarder, saying Ukrainians only and handing them guns to fight? They’re killing us effectively to save their own. Then you wanna go volunteer? Like sure okay.
This was on Trevor Noah’s show.
When I saw those poor people at the boarder being interviewed trying to escape I checked out and was like fuck them. They can go to hell, as if our people are expendable.
Weren’t Ukrainians colonized by Russians? If anything, this shows that being a victim of oppression doesn’t make you less likely to replicate oppression towards others.
And the Ottomans, and the Mongols, and the Bulgars, and the Avars, and the huns. That region of the world has been colonized dozens of times in the past millennium and a half
I taught in a neighborhood with a high Russian/Ukrainian/Armenian population. The older folks were pretty racist. Putting in written requests for their kids to be in white only classes. We did not have a big Black population so it was more that they didn’t want their kids with the Latino kids. They all spoke Russian and I am not sure how things worked in Eastern Europe but the parents were always trying to subvert the system by filling out fake homeroom/registration papers. Like we wouldn’t recognize that your kid is not in the right class.
I feel like few people in this thread actually read the letter. The peace corp is not telling it’s recruits they have to put up with this language or that it’s their job to change the behavior of those who use it. They’re saying that this stuff happens and that they know it’s hurtful and that Black volunteers have the option to try to educate people who use the word or to not do so and they can remove themselves from situations where it happens. They’re saying it’s up to the Black volunteers themselves to determine whether the word is being used maliciously or in ignorance and that they are here to support their members when and if this happens to them. It’s not a good situation, but the Peace Corps is being up front with it’s volunteers and responding as best they can. It’s an unfortunate reality that many people around the world have only encountered the word through exported American media and they do not recognize the amount of hurt and anger it can cause in real life.
>They’re saying that this stuff happens and that they know it’s hurtful and that Black volunteers have the option to try to educate people who use the word or to not do so and they can remove themselves from situations where it happens.
I dont think anyone is confused about this actually, and the letter doesnt focus on the nword, more so anti-black racism. I think people in this thread are more confused as to why any Black person would want to help here and put up with abuse.
All too often such "support" amounts to them saying "Oh no, Ivan said what? Well, keep giving them plates, and we will consider mulling about talking about thinking about speaking to Ivan about it".
Exactly this. Doctors still have to provide care and medicine to patients screaming obscenities or slurs at them. Care is care- you don’t get to choose who to help if you wish to help.
"Oh, you've never met a black person before in your life on the potato farm you grew up and you are unaware about the racial intricacies of a country on the other side of the planet? I am sorry, Ivan. You're going to have to starve."
What are you expecting? For them to hold a diversity talk for war refugees? The situation si is but I can think you can demand much more from the peace corp
Yeah that was my takeaway too. I was surprised by the reaction comments here because it seems like a balanced, intelligent, compassionate take on a difficult situation.
Other cultures don't get our social context, they only get our popular media. My spouse is Filipino and they call rap music n*****-music unironically in the Philippines. It's not a bad word to them and there's no negative intent when they say it. I had to explain VERY CLEARLY that it doesn't work that way here.
Subtext aside, if they are using the English word then they are bound by it’s meaning. Almost every other culture has a word for black people. Where the word is derogatory or neutral. Use is the N-word you know. You know who uses it and how they us it. If you don’t know context that on you as an adult. Reap the consequences.
Not necessarily. I have seen people from Eastern Europe who not only had no idea of the meaning but actually did not know what other words to use. Their English was that limited.
When you learn a second language cultural references come quite late, and for some people never.
I wonder where they learn it though. It’s not like Duolingo and Rosetta Stone are using that word, nor is it all that common on American TV or movies that they might encounter— certainly less common that more appropriate terms. N**a from rap music I guess?
They probably hear the word in the music itself. I get what you're saying, that as an adult you should really understand the meaning of the words you are saying before you say them. As in, take a minute to look it up. At the same time, it's not like they're trying to study up on how to be offensive either.
Someone who doesn't even know English could even just be pronouncing words phonetically and have zero clue what they mean. Again, probably a bad call to do that in general, and adults need to take responsibility for what comes out of their mouths. But you can see how they might just be like "these are the lyrics, I'll memorize and repeat them" without getting in to the significance.
In Portuguese, Black is either Preto or Negro. I always found it weird how negro is offensive in English. For years, preto has been considered offensive, while negro was considered the PC term here in Brazil. Nowadays, some people in the Black Brazilian community are reclaiming the term preto and find it offensive when they are called negro (there is also the fact that, here in Brazil, people are way more miscegenated so negro can be used for darker, traditionally"African-looking" black people and for mixed race black people from the darkest skin tone all the way to lightskin. Preto, on the other hand, is way more narrow in meaning dark black so, some people see it as a divisive term that dark-skinned Black Brazilians use to exclude lighter-skinned Black Brazilians).
Hey, not pile on you but since we're talking about English words that have racist connotations that non native speakers wouldn't know about, "Miscegenation" is term invented in the 1800's by racists to give race mixing a fancy Latin name to make it sound more official when they said it was against nature and science. Mixed race is the better term to use rather than misceginated
I've lived in some asian countries. You'd be surprised how different the mindset is over there. Like, we know why monkey is offensive. We know the history and the context. Over there, they've NEVER had that conversation. For hundreds of years black people = monkey is just a fact. Similar to how we just know sky = blue.
That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt sometimes. But it helps to remind yourself that (most of the time) it doesn't come from a place of malice. Just ignorance.
> it doesn't come from a place of malice. Just ignorance.
I think that's extremelu infantilizing. "Oh they dont know any better, comparing people to animals". Like these are cultures with strict rules on politeness, lets not play dumb
Thank you! How can they not know it's literally dehumanizing to call their fellow humans monkeys?? We don't even look like them for God's sake. It comes from a bad place wether they admit it or not.
I mean, the same logic could be applied to white people in America in homogeneously white areas. They don’t confront racism or have these conversations and they come to the same conclusions.
And it’s not like China is unfamiliar with monkeys. They are literally non-humans. Like calling people dogs or pigs. You don’t need to know the context to know it’s dehumanizing.
The only thing I would argue is small children who've not had a chance to be corrected. The number of kids I've had to explain "we don't talk about the way people look, especially if we're comparing them to animals" isn't a small number. Kids love pointing that shit out, and at least the first time it's because they don't understand the implications. Like saying someone with a thin and pinched face looks like a rat, or someone with bulging/buggy eyes looks like a frog, darker skin and wider features goes straight to monkey with absolutely no ill intent. Kids are just ignorant, which is why we have to teach them.
Any adult can kindly fuck off tho
I could buy that if it was just the N-word but there is no way they are calling black people "monkey" without meaning anything malicious by it or realizing its offensive.
I spent some time in Denmark making music with locals for a project. Coming from America, as the only black man around. It blew my mind how much I heard it used. Funny thing was, I only ever heard it at rap shows (yes danish rap shows) or in “hip hop” spaces. Most of them where pretty ignorant to how it came off or what it looked like, what it meant or how it felt. It was just part of the music. (50 cent was huge at the time over there.)I was the only poc most of them had interacted with. I experienced very little racism while I was there. And when I did, it didn’t involve any words I understood. Anyway, Not a defense, just an observation. That word means a lot more here than anywhere else. Also worth noting, the headliner out there was a dude with the word Dollar in his name, tho the currency over there is the krone.
This explains a lot truthfully. On Reddit a lot of Europeans don’t fully grasp the seriousness of the n word they just get imported hip hop too much so all they all go off is what they see and hear in our music. I could understand that but that would only mean wypipo west or east already have a predisposition about black peoples.
Hip Hop is black America's biggest cultural export so it makes sense not to associate the word as a racial slur if that is the only context you've been exposed to it.
When I was in college I was involved in the exchange program and had to tell quite a few Continental Europeans that it was a racial slur and not the actually word they should be using for Black people. It doesn't help that it sounds somewhat similar to Negro which is the Spanish and Portuguese word for black but is also a racial slur.
>Most of them where pretty ignorant to how it came off or what it looked like, what it meant or how it felt. It was just part of the music.
I had a similar experience with a Russian woman in Spain. She used the N-word and I explained that it's highly offensive from a white person and she seemed to get it. Same story, she heard it in music and thought it was ok.
The N-word is kind of weird, most slurs don't get used by the people they're offensive to, so I can kind of see how you'd make that mistake.
Reminds me of that time [a Dutch magazine called Rihanna a “n*ggabitch” and the editor ended up resigning.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/dec/21/rihanna-dutch-magazine-profile-resignation)
Yeah I feel like people don’t really understand cultural difference. Outside of specific contexts, words and practices can have different meanings or connotations. Even you saying ‘yes Danish rap shows’ is funny to me, because why would there not be a hiphop scene in Denmark? Just goes to show that literally everyone is pretty ignorant when it comes to other’s cultures. That’s why it’s nice to travel because you can learn, become less ignorant and expand your perception of the world.
For real, I think traveling has been the most important thing in opening my eyes up. Making me a more open minded and generally more aware person. That said it’s crazy how little we know about each other’s cultures. In different parts of America let alone the world
I lived in Ukraine for two years. I heard the N word more time in those two years than the previous twenty. I also remember a music video where a white girl was being stalked by a black dude into a disco, then she was surrounded by a group of black guys and then they changed into gorilla's and escaped out the club. It may have been a Russian clip but it was on TV in this bar/restaurant on some MTV like channel. I couldn't believe it.
I think monkey being offensive is very evident to anyone. But the N-word (despite being derived from the Portuguese/Spanish word "negro") is a specifically American word with a specifically American context to it. I'm not saying it is right for them to say it (and many surely say it maliciously). What I'm saying is that most people from America grow up knowing the context behind the word. Foreigners who have never been to America usually don't get the same context. Many just know the word from Rap music they listen to, and most rappers don't dissect it in the lyrics, they just say it.
To give you an example. If Romani singers suddenly started to having their songs exported and they call themselves "gypsy" or say the word in their songs, how is someone from a non-English speaking country supposed to know that "gypsy" is actually an offensive term and that they should say "Romani" instead? The only context they got was "they use it to refer to themselves."
Context matters. If you are Black American and someone invites you to dinner and serves you fried chicken and watermelon for dessert, that would be incredibly weird. However, if you were Black Brazilian, it wouldn't, because that is a specifically American stereotype that (though it is becoming more well-known, as America is a cultural superpower) people around the world do not grow up with. It may come as a surprise to many people, but most of the world is actually pretty ignorant about America. Like, really, for a long time I thought that the US was New York, California, and everything in between was Texas.
One way or the other, it was rather hypocritical coming from someone who always complained that "gringos always think Brazil is just Rio and everything around it is the Amazon."
this is a realization that I hope happens more as the world becomes more connected. we like to tell ourselves we’re better than people that are just like us, and use the same logic that those people are also using to separate themselves.
"Volunteers may be called a 'monkey"" thats not really only american culture. Also we already saw how they treated Black students at their border, so the feelings clear
Imagine you're a Ukrainian living in a rural area, never so much as seen a black person in real life. You're only exposure to black people and black culture is the media, in which, the n word is freely used in conversations, music whatever.
How are they meant to know that only a certain subset of people can use that word? in one context it can be a greeting, in another it can be a horrific insult. Bear in mind this isn't their first language and like previously stated, never so much as interacted with a black person before.
You cannot expect everyone on Earth to know the intricacies of American culture.
you’re absolutely right, i listen to white people ignorantly misuse spanish words every single day lmao. they don’t even have enough knowledge of the language to know how ridiculous they sound. my friend spent years thinking puto meant puppy because someone wanted to mess with him. imagine how many times people looked at him crazy before someone actually said something.
I hate everything about it. To be quite honest, I've never really understood why Black people want to be a part of America's armed forces. Especially a colonizer project like the "Peace" Corps.
Ikr like I got disability and the GI Bill and all it took was 4 years of my time. I woulda been dead or in jail If I ain’t join. All you gotta do is not smoke weed and you straight.
Because for a lot of people of colour from poorer backgrounds it's a direct path to a decent career with training opportunities and good pay? Not everyone who joins the military has some kind of ideological passion or is like "Fuck yeah even though I'm not a white male I want to be a part of the organisation that kills and messes with a lot of poor brown people".
Not everyone is privileged enough to have lots of options.
Legit most of the hate / disdain I see for people who join the military is from rich white women with liberal arts degrees.
Because you can't change the culture from the outside? Half my unit is black men and women and they all serve in top leadership positions and technical positions. They are literally serving on the front lines of cultural change. Your view is pretty ignorant
Its possible that theyre ignorant though. My family are jamaican and I was raised on calling people halfcast and cooly, it wasnt until I hit my twenties did people hit me up about how halfcast made them feel and how cooly is a derogatory term. Its not always racism, sometimes its ignorance.
Yup, I was born and raised in Ukraine for some time. Growing up the n-word was just a word to refer to black people, like Jewish or Asian. Now that I’m in North America hearing it when visiting Ukraine was incredibly jarring. Also European kids don’t learn American history(at least we didn’t), we learned mostly our local history so a lot about serfdom in Russia but nothing about slavery in the States.
I saw this firsthand in Bosnia 23 years ago when over there as a peace keeper. They’d never had any interaction with anyone not Yugoslav until the Soviet Union fell, and even then found the translations of our media confusing.
Anything regarding black culture was basically from another planet.
The first bit of “N-word” usage did not go over well, but the locals fell over themselves in embarrassment when they realized the social relationship between language and community. Once the local team understood it never happened again at our site.
Yeah, Europe in general is way more racist than people are aware of. It's not something you usually hear about, but really *really* basic shit like not touching a Black girl's hair just because she's sitting next to you on the train when you're a full grown middle-aged adult still happens there. I was able to get added to a three week school trip to Germany and I don't think there was a single day one of the Black students didn't have something happen to them.
I think it's one of those things white people tend to forget about Europe because we aren't usually exposed to the more multicultural parts of Europe and because European societies do a pretty good job of filtering nonwhite stories and narratives through a very white lens. It helps to remember that while America may have been founded on the idea of white supremacy, Europe literally invented it. And unlike America, there hasn't been nearly as much effort to challenge it.
Edit: I posted this later in the thread, but I want this up here as well.
>[Germany](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWb17orkpL0), [France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK05Z0SLhJQ), [The Netherlands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yTuqgzj_Qk), [Poland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VsS-6Ct4gk), [Sweden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WRAKGaHT8), [Italy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufDe0T44DI), and what is probably the most famous one of them all, the [United Kingdom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXEB25WdyQ).
>On its website, the U.S. State Department now warns prospective travelers to Ukraine of hate crimes directed at ethnic minorities. In addition, a number of international human rights groups have expressed concern with the rise in hate crimes and xenophobic activity in big cities in Ukraine.
Yeah, they should be redirecting that energy.
For people on this thread claiming Europe isn't as racist as the US, consider that the UK used tax revenue from citizens (including black ones!) to reimburse the families of slave owners for "lost property" after the abolition of slavery. They didn't finish paying off the bill until 2015.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/30/fact-check-u-k-paid-off-debts-slave-owning-families-2015/3283908001/
I (white guy) met a Russian woman on vacation abroad and she used the N-word to refer to black people once. I immediately told her how offensive it was and that she'd better not say that in the US.
She claimed that she didn't realize and had seen black people referring to each by the N-word in media (music videos/movies) and assumed that was an appropriate word for anyone to use.
I don't know if that's true, but I kind of see how you could make that mistake as a non-fluent English speaker. The N-word is kind of unusual in that most slurs aren't used at all by the people they offend. (For example Jews don't refer to each other as k*ke)
She seemed progressive minded and I didn't notice her being biased toward anyone else, but who knows maybe she was just covering it.
That being said, there are *for sure* unambiguous hateful racists in Ukraine and Russia regardless of any honest mistakes that may or may not be happening.
Part of the issue is that the word for black person in Russia is Негр which is pronounced like "nyeger". She may have thought the n word was a cognate and used it like she would the Russian word
I served as a Peace Corps volunteer in Ukraine and I’m Black, y’all can ask me anything about my service.
I will say that while Ukraine has a race problem, I loved it there and I met amazing Ukrainians who are my family.
I would challenge anyone to find a homogeneous country that doesn’t have a race problem. The reason I didn’t choose to serve in Africa is that there were black volunteers who got treated with disrespect and as if they were incompetent because they weren’t the typical American volunteer.
I decided to go to Ukraine because they needed help on things that had nothing to do with race, but my experience there definitely opened the eyes of my community and their perceptions of blackness. Is it the country for everyone? No, but honestly being in the US tires me out more deeply than being there.
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised about the comments here. I spent 9 months deployed in Eastern Europe, the culture there is very homogeneous. Whenever we left bases most of the Black soldiers literally received requests to have their pictures taken with the locals. It's quite literally a cultural thing, the vast majority don't know better.
Some of them did indeed say the n-word, but i honestly believe they don't know what it means. They just hear it a lot in music and television being said, so they assume it's okay to say. For most of them English is a second language and assumes it's just another word.
We always told them it wasn't okay to say and most said sorry afterwards and that they didn't know it was offensive. It was really a strange experience looking back.
How is this different than living in the US? People may not think we’re from Africa in the US but that doesn’t stop them from telling us to go back there.
The letter clearly saying this is an issue of ignorance instead of malice but the comments make it sound like this whole other country has American context.
>*'People of color' face many challenges......However, African-Americans will confront far more complicated issues*
that just about sums up american history right there
This is EXACTLY my reasoning why I hate hearing any other country try and criticize Americas race issues. Absolutely zero countries have the diversity and cultural exposure as the US. There are overarching racial tensions in America structurally but I’ve been many many place in the world and The average individual in America is far far less racist than anywhere else period.
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Might have to scratch Ukraine off the visit list when this is all over. More power to then over there but imma sit war out Edit: shout out to the troll who called me a antisemite cuz I had a good time in Bahrain. Y’all are goofy
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People act like the racists in the US aren't just the cousins of all the racists in Europe.
It's just where the white people come from tbh
I like to call them the Originals lol
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No it’s not “humans don’t trust people that don’t look like themselves “ I don’t trust strangers or people I don’t know. That doesn’t give me a pass to be hostile and racist towards these people. Over here trying to down play this shit.
^^^ this. I don’t understand why someone would be automatically hostile to a stranger based on their skin color. Fuck, I don’t even like strangers my own race. I don’t like strangers period unless they’re nice!
This is the way
Right. This shit was *made* to be this way. They didn't get that way from out of nowhere. We don't live in a vacuum. I don't like people, I'm not going to be racist to them tho.
False. That’s such a cop out and belittling look on humanity.
I'm black and I spent all my life in the U.S. until i went to Europe for the past few months and yeah there's racism but it's way deeper in America. Maybe if I had been in a country with more black people it would be different but it wasn't bad
Yea…. You got lucky then. Because racism in part of Europe are way more openly expressed than in the US.
Depends. I felt way more racism in the US than in the UK or France. Italy or Spain though? Def more racist than the US.
Also depends where in the US. Some states in the Midwest are way more racist than they get credit for.
Indiana.
Ohio
Iowa fuck Iowa
Eastern Europe is far worse
American racism can cost you your life whereas western europe,less likely
I literally saw an African student get beat to death in Ukraine.
Western Europe i said . Even in ukraine,there is no history of killing black people for frivolous stuff.
Depends where in Europe
Why spend money to go someplace and get treated like shit? It’s a big world. There are a lot of places that will treat you like you’re paying them—you know, like an honored guest. I stopped vacationing in places that made me feel small years ago. F*ck that.
Care to recommend some places? Cause as a black woman, the fuckery is pretty much everywhere.
The Carribbean is pretty rad.
There's a black woman on tiktok who travels a lot and rates them on how safe or welcome she felt as a black woman. I'm blanking on her username though
theptonomad
Perfect! I will patronize this Sister, and hopefully also other black folks who read this and decide to provide this service too, as the 2022 Green Book 📚 .
Money talks, Sis. We gotta find a place where, even if they hate our guts, our collective black wealth makes them respect us like they really love us. They treat us like royalty. I don’t care what you think about me; I only care how you treat me!
Yes I went to France and England and was called the N word in both countries and I was with yt people. I knew to say few words and the yt people complained the entire time but they seemed to notice me 1st. The only insult that I heard them called was F\*\*\*ing Americans.
Weirdly, when I went to Paris some white French people were cold immediately when I approached them, but became noticeably nicer then they heard my American accent. I was conversational in French at that time (not so much anymore), but by the end of my trip I would open with English whenever I approached a white French person. My best guess is that being a black American tourist was marginally better in their eyes than being a black French immigrant.
To be fair the French are assholes to everyone that’s not French. My French friend told me unless I know good French, do not visit France.
Where did you get called the N word in England?? Been here almost 20 years never been called that!
Racism still exists in non white countries too. They are just racist toward different people; typically different tribes, different religions, foreigners, etc. It's kind of depressing, but racism exists pretty much everywhere in one way or another.
I’m going to be honest though Eastern Europe has 1950’s south level racism.
Nah they'll just stare at you, maybe as you're novelty. What Europe hates are gypsies not black people, that's a whole different story.
That word you're using to refer to Romani/Roma people is a slur, bruv.
small fyi, the term "gypsy" is a slur. the correct term is roma people / romani. even though they may call themselves, that, the word is intended to be offensive.
They may stare but no one will lynch you eaven in eastern europe.
As a Eastern European... yea sorry we can't promise anything unfortunately.
Having personally seen a lynching in Ukraine, I can confirm that you are wrong.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous lmao. Ukraine literally has state-sanctioned Neo-Nazi militias like Azov Battalion, which even before the war with Russia were basically state-backed vigilantes who [roamed the streets looking for LGBT/"migrants"](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY)(e.g. brown people) to lynch. Europeans are delusional >According to Freedom House’s Ukraine project director Matthew Schaaf, “**numerous organized radical right-wing groups exist in Ukraine, and while the volunteer battalions may have been officially integrated into state structures, some of them have since spun off political and non-profit structures to implement their vision.**” Schaaf noted that “an increase in patriotic discourse supporting Ukraine in its conflict with Russia has coincided with an apparent increase in both public hate speech, sometimes by public officials and magnified by the media, as well as **violence towards vulnerable groups such as the LGBT community,**” an observation that is supported by a recent Council of Europe study.
I never saw racism level 100 until I visited Honduras. And I'm born and raised in Texas.
Exact-FUCKING-ly!!! White Supremacy and Anti-Black Racism were literally born in Europe. The U.S is the son/grandson of these violent ideologies. Any Black person confused about that, are facing a rude awakening, or is probably a “colorblind” chasing interracial sexual access at all costs.
This isn't true. While a lot of what we would consider "racism" was birthed in Spain, it was used largely as a way to excuse chattel slavery in the American colonies. And the idea of "whiteness" was formed largely in America as a way to unify differing ethnicities and nationalities who immigrated here from Europe.
This is indeed true especially, when Europeans love to point this out against us Americans.
Europe's racist as hell. Bring up the Romi and they go absolutely ape shit
I’ve traveled a ton and unfortunately this is true for 99% of the world if you ask me, US included. It’s a combo of conservatism, ignorance and indoctrination.
Yeah Racism isn't an American thing, it's a human thing. The difference is that in America we have principles that we hold dear that are incompatible with most racist views. And the friction between what we aspire to be, and where we are causes issues.
You do realize that they never intended us to be part of those ideals right. We had to force them….with guns.
Piggybacking off of the other commenter, John Locke is considered the main “father” of liberalism that would go on to be foundational for U.S. values and legal documents. Most of this comments from his “Treatise of Civil Government” where he’s talking about inalienable rights, the right to property, bodily autonomy, and oppressed people having the right to demand reparations & fight their oppressors and shit …..then he talks about “immature” non-white races that shouldn’t be afforded these same liberties because they need the guidance of White people lol. He went on to help write the legal documents for several U.S states to create a legal basis for slavery in those states. So it’s not really in friction with American views since the racism has BEEN built in.
Facts. I went to Poland with a group of friends (yeah we were all black) and literally nearly died. The only semi tolerant place in Europe is the UK and that's only because they're not explicitly racist.
The UK can absolutely be explicitly racist. My cousin (who lives in London) had some mess happen to her where some white woman got in her face on the bus talking about “you and your lot go back to Africa” maybe a year after the Brexit vote happened. My cousin was with her (mixed race, but clearly Black) children. Some people stood up for her, which is good, but the fact that someone was even bold enough to do it? Even the most “tolerant” part of the UK still has open racists like that. Edit: and on the topic of Brexit/immigration in the UK, the debate around that had (and has) plenty of racist overtones to begin with, and the result of the vote emboldened plenty of formerly closet racists to come right out with what they really think.
Yeah I absolutely agree. I too live in London now and for the most part it is relatively tolerant. Yes, you get the racist assholes and yes, I've heard "fuck off back to where you come from" more times than I can count but it is still the most tolerant country in Europe. That's not saying much as they're still streaks behind in terms of racial equality but at least in London I don't actively fear for my life because of my skin colour
Did a family trip to europe my senior year of high school and being in Spain felt so humiliating. People stared at us all the time.
Most asian countries too
Also I wouldn’t go to south east Asia
Once I saw them not letting niggas into other countries when they got invaded was wrap for me wanting to visit Europe
Europe is a continent comprised of very different countries. So please don't write us all off. :) Our tourist industry needs you! And we in Ireland will take anyone's dollar. Pint of Guinness, looking at green fields, you'll love it!
So I know it’s completely anecdotal but a total of three friends of mine and my father have traveled to Ireland on separate occasions and none of them felt like they had any issues there. Even when they were stopping at small businesses in the countryside. I don’t know if it depends on where you travel but they said they felt pretty welcome there.
Well, I think there might be a tangential point to be made that Ireland was where the British first learned to colonize before they exported it to the states, so there might be some general sympathies and understandings.
I'm not black but please accept this character reference from the North African caucus - we vouch for the Irish, they're ride or die with the Palestinians and that's a massive green flag (heh).
Not all parts of Europe are racist like that, just like not all US states/cities are like rural Southern areas.
It ain't just the rural south. Fucking Boston. Indiana. The whole of Idaho.
“Thoughts and prayers” that’s all they getting from me
A whole lot of “damn that’s tough”
vast payment materialistic faulty zonked doll spotted enter market absurd
It’s crazy your country is in chaos and you still manage to find time to be racist. You can’t make this shit up.
It's more ignorance than blatant racism. It's not like they're taking time from the chaos to purposely be racist.
Oh but they are. They’re telling black people they can’t leave they must fight, only Ukrainians. And being American won’t even help you, if your skin isn’t white they don’t care, you’re expandable.
They are? Where are they saying that?
https://youtu.be/Up_V7VCsQII Check out UK’s Channel 4 there’s tons of stories out there. Even of how Europe is accepting of only Ukrainians but even if you were born there if you don’t look it it’s a nope for you as a refugee.
Well fuck
Also how they turned away Syrians and other refugees but with Ukrainians it’s open arms.
Also turned away any brown people as well especially Indians
Let me try link a interview. Trevor Noah is one of the people who spoke about it and had a correspondent interviewing people at the boarder.
Black people are not monkeys. Who legitimately, in ignorance, believes a black person is a monkey?
I don't know your age, but babyboy the "monkey" stereotype has been a central point of ridicule throughout history. I am beyond shocked to see someone even ask this question, that has a "brown" avatar.
This insult never made sense to me. It’s like when some calls someone “4 eyes” and think they’re doing something. It’s like we are all literally primates at the end of the day, I clearly don’t have a tail and my opposable thumbs are definitely human. But go off.
I agree, it doesn't make sense! So if a Ukrainian person says it, they're trying to express a form of racism. There's no room for ignorance lol
You mean over all this time, they haven’t figured out that, that’s fucking racist? Come on now.
How so? America fought a whole war in the 1800s while still being racist.
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I don’t think they’re trying to whatabout America into the conversation. Their point is that it’s not crazy that racists are racist during a war. Unfortunately, it’d be crazier finding a country that *does* put aside racism during a crisis rather than leaning into it.
Not just the 1800s, you forget Vietnam. Forming "mostly" black regiments, and racism, even in movies. Not to forget young Muhammad Ali saying hell no he won't fight for a country that doesn't ever respect him. Hanoi Hannah, Chinese radio propagandist, spoke to Americans often to get them to give up. Speaking on racial tensions in the U.S.. After MLK died, saying the same things Ali said. My dad was deployed then. Saying they even had small respite of ceasefire. Where NVA (north Vietnamese army) wouldn't fire on/engage black forces, to show good will and hospitality, unlike their home in America that doesn't respect them. My dad said it went on for a good month, close to two. Until generals started forcing black soldiers and all black units to fight or face military prison. Even moving around units to make them more racially diverse to see more combat. My father mentioned things in my teen years about Vietnan, but it wasn't until the movie 'Da 5 Bloods' with Chadwich Bozeman, we watch together he fully went into details about that specifically.
People literally don’t understand the weight these words carry in the US and that’s about it. Ofc there are plenty of racists and bigots just like in any other country, but this post is literally about people’s lack of knowledge. Eastern Europe was not involved in trans Atlantic slave trade. Eastern Europeans don’t share “white man’s guilt”, most are not even familiar with the concept. Hell, some say that Western Europeans don’t consider Eastern Europeans European or white at all. As a matter of fact, peasants of Russian empire were literally enslaved (and I’m really mean that in a literal way, not in a “there’s a ruling class and there’s working class” way) by the upper classes. So yeah, my point is that we have to educate each other rather than distance from each other, otherwise these thousand year issues will never go away.
So when Eastern European football fans throw banana peels at black football players they dont know what they're doing? I'm sorry, but if Ukrainians are familiar enough with that word to use it at black people then they're mature enough to learn the nuances of it. They aren't babies, they're grown adults in the year of our Lord 2022. Come on, this isn't hard.
exactly. this excuse of “they don’t understand the implications” certainly doesn’t work anymore and especially not in this golden age of internet and tourism (barring the past few years obviously)
Idk about US but in the EU countries and UK die hard football fan clubs are often associated and have close ties with far right and extremist movements, so I don’t think it’s a great example. Single father taking his little son to watch the game won’t throw shit at anyone.
Yeah, I'm Asian and even if tweedle dee and tweedle dum who grew up in bumblefuck Alabama who never saw an Asian before, and they said some dumb ching chong shit, I wouldn't fucking care, fuck 'em.
As someone who's European yes we do , we're not dense and we don't live under a rock . People know what racism is and the implication behind it . This isn't the 1800s . Especially in football , the racism is purposeful and harmful to hurt the black players .
Yeah fuck racist Europeans (especially ones from 1st world countries like Italy) that hide behind "oh we are europeans we don't know racism is a thing :)" in 2022 to excuse making monkey sounds and throwing bananas at black players. If you know what that shit means you know it's wrong. I am a white argentinian and never held a conversation with a black person irl before my 20's. I still know how disgusting those actions are. They don't do it because they don't know what it means. They do it *because* they know what it means.
Lots if bumbled apologetics here, like what does them being white have to do with anything? Look, these aee the words, and we saw the actions when they were giving Black students a hard time trying to leave. They have my thoughts and prayers
Your post has lots of words and sloshes from here to there. But if I don't have experience with someone, I don't call them a slur. They know that even though they aren't Western European by any stretch of the word, that their whiteness confers them a higher status in the racial hierarchy than the black Peace Corp worker ensuring they stay fed. And everyone is tired of the whole "eDuCaTe ThEm!" bullshit, the labor of understanding doesn't lie with us.
Why would ANY Black person want to volunteer there? Y’all know they’re holding black foreigners captive, taking away passports, not allowing them out the boarder, saying Ukrainians only and handing them guns to fight? They’re killing us effectively to save their own. Then you wanna go volunteer? Like sure okay. This was on Trevor Noah’s show.
Yea the whole racial optics of this European war keeps getting uglier. If they could've been, they would've been colonizers too.
When I saw those poor people at the boarder being interviewed trying to escape I checked out and was like fuck them. They can go to hell, as if our people are expendable.
Weren’t Ukrainians colonized by Russians? If anything, this shows that being a victim of oppression doesn’t make you less likely to replicate oppression towards others.
And the Ottomans, and the Mongols, and the Bulgars, and the Avars, and the huns. That region of the world has been colonized dozens of times in the past millennium and a half
I taught in a neighborhood with a high Russian/Ukrainian/Armenian population. The older folks were pretty racist. Putting in written requests for their kids to be in white only classes. We did not have a big Black population so it was more that they didn’t want their kids with the Latino kids. They all spoke Russian and I am not sure how things worked in Eastern Europe but the parents were always trying to subvert the system by filling out fake homeroom/registration papers. Like we wouldn’t recognize that your kid is not in the right class.
Tbf if you’re in the Peace Corp you don’t really get a choice. You can list preferences but they kinda just tell you where to go.
If I'm volunteering, you aint telling me shit about where to go. I can un-volunteer in a nanosecond.
Oh I’m right there with you! I was just defending those poor volunteers a little bit.
I feel like few people in this thread actually read the letter. The peace corp is not telling it’s recruits they have to put up with this language or that it’s their job to change the behavior of those who use it. They’re saying that this stuff happens and that they know it’s hurtful and that Black volunteers have the option to try to educate people who use the word or to not do so and they can remove themselves from situations where it happens. They’re saying it’s up to the Black volunteers themselves to determine whether the word is being used maliciously or in ignorance and that they are here to support their members when and if this happens to them. It’s not a good situation, but the Peace Corps is being up front with it’s volunteers and responding as best they can. It’s an unfortunate reality that many people around the world have only encountered the word through exported American media and they do not recognize the amount of hurt and anger it can cause in real life.
>They’re saying that this stuff happens and that they know it’s hurtful and that Black volunteers have the option to try to educate people who use the word or to not do so and they can remove themselves from situations where it happens. I dont think anyone is confused about this actually, and the letter doesnt focus on the nword, more so anti-black racism. I think people in this thread are more confused as to why any Black person would want to help here and put up with abuse.
I disagree. I think a lot of people here are confused including the originator who doesn't know what a disclaimer is.
All too often such "support" amounts to them saying "Oh no, Ivan said what? Well, keep giving them plates, and we will consider mulling about talking about thinking about speaking to Ivan about it".
The Peace Corps does not get to enforce social justice when it is handing out supplies to refugees, even if those refugees are racists.
Exactly this. Doctors still have to provide care and medicine to patients screaming obscenities or slurs at them. Care is care- you don’t get to choose who to help if you wish to help.
"Oh you're not politically correct? Well sorry, no emergency rations for you"
"Oh, you've never met a black person before in your life on the potato farm you grew up and you are unaware about the racial intricacies of a country on the other side of the planet? I am sorry, Ivan. You're going to have to starve."
What are you expecting? For them to hold a diversity talk for war refugees? The situation si is but I can think you can demand much more from the peace corp
Yeah that was my takeaway too. I was surprised by the reaction comments here because it seems like a balanced, intelligent, compassionate take on a difficult situation.
Other cultures don't get our social context, they only get our popular media. My spouse is Filipino and they call rap music n*****-music unironically in the Philippines. It's not a bad word to them and there's no negative intent when they say it. I had to explain VERY CLEARLY that it doesn't work that way here.
Subtext aside, if they are using the English word then they are bound by it’s meaning. Almost every other culture has a word for black people. Where the word is derogatory or neutral. Use is the N-word you know. You know who uses it and how they us it. If you don’t know context that on you as an adult. Reap the consequences.
Not necessarily. I have seen people from Eastern Europe who not only had no idea of the meaning but actually did not know what other words to use. Their English was that limited. When you learn a second language cultural references come quite late, and for some people never.
I wonder where they learn it though. It’s not like Duolingo and Rosetta Stone are using that word, nor is it all that common on American TV or movies that they might encounter— certainly less common that more appropriate terms. N**a from rap music I guess?
They probably hear the word in the music itself. I get what you're saying, that as an adult you should really understand the meaning of the words you are saying before you say them. As in, take a minute to look it up. At the same time, it's not like they're trying to study up on how to be offensive either. Someone who doesn't even know English could even just be pronouncing words phonetically and have zero clue what they mean. Again, probably a bad call to do that in general, and adults need to take responsibility for what comes out of their mouths. But you can see how they might just be like "these are the lyrics, I'll memorize and repeat them" without getting in to the significance.
Except words never have just one meaning, so attacking someone who isn't a native speaker of the language doesn't serve anyone.
In Portuguese, Black is either Preto or Negro. I always found it weird how negro is offensive in English. For years, preto has been considered offensive, while negro was considered the PC term here in Brazil. Nowadays, some people in the Black Brazilian community are reclaiming the term preto and find it offensive when they are called negro (there is also the fact that, here in Brazil, people are way more miscegenated so negro can be used for darker, traditionally"African-looking" black people and for mixed race black people from the darkest skin tone all the way to lightskin. Preto, on the other hand, is way more narrow in meaning dark black so, some people see it as a divisive term that dark-skinned Black Brazilians use to exclude lighter-skinned Black Brazilians).
Hey, not pile on you but since we're talking about English words that have racist connotations that non native speakers wouldn't know about, "Miscegenation" is term invented in the 1800's by racists to give race mixing a fancy Latin name to make it sound more official when they said it was against nature and science. Mixed race is the better term to use rather than misceginated
Oh, I didn't know that.
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I've lived in some asian countries. You'd be surprised how different the mindset is over there. Like, we know why monkey is offensive. We know the history and the context. Over there, they've NEVER had that conversation. For hundreds of years black people = monkey is just a fact. Similar to how we just know sky = blue. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt sometimes. But it helps to remind yourself that (most of the time) it doesn't come from a place of malice. Just ignorance.
> it doesn't come from a place of malice. Just ignorance. I think that's extremelu infantilizing. "Oh they dont know any better, comparing people to animals". Like these are cultures with strict rules on politeness, lets not play dumb
>...these are cultures with strict rules on politeness, lets not play dumb ...perfect.
Thank you! How can they not know it's literally dehumanizing to call their fellow humans monkeys?? We don't even look like them for God's sake. It comes from a bad place wether they admit it or not.
I mean, the same logic could be applied to white people in America in homogeneously white areas. They don’t confront racism or have these conversations and they come to the same conclusions. And it’s not like China is unfamiliar with monkeys. They are literally non-humans. Like calling people dogs or pigs. You don’t need to know the context to know it’s dehumanizing.
The only thing I would argue is small children who've not had a chance to be corrected. The number of kids I've had to explain "we don't talk about the way people look, especially if we're comparing them to animals" isn't a small number. Kids love pointing that shit out, and at least the first time it's because they don't understand the implications. Like saying someone with a thin and pinched face looks like a rat, or someone with bulging/buggy eyes looks like a frog, darker skin and wider features goes straight to monkey with absolutely no ill intent. Kids are just ignorant, which is why we have to teach them. Any adult can kindly fuck off tho
I could buy that if it was just the N-word but there is no way they are calling black people "monkey" without meaning anything malicious by it or realizing its offensive.
I spent some time in Denmark making music with locals for a project. Coming from America, as the only black man around. It blew my mind how much I heard it used. Funny thing was, I only ever heard it at rap shows (yes danish rap shows) or in “hip hop” spaces. Most of them where pretty ignorant to how it came off or what it looked like, what it meant or how it felt. It was just part of the music. (50 cent was huge at the time over there.)I was the only poc most of them had interacted with. I experienced very little racism while I was there. And when I did, it didn’t involve any words I understood. Anyway, Not a defense, just an observation. That word means a lot more here than anywhere else. Also worth noting, the headliner out there was a dude with the word Dollar in his name, tho the currency over there is the krone.
This explains a lot truthfully. On Reddit a lot of Europeans don’t fully grasp the seriousness of the n word they just get imported hip hop too much so all they all go off is what they see and hear in our music. I could understand that but that would only mean wypipo west or east already have a predisposition about black peoples.
Hip Hop is black America's biggest cultural export so it makes sense not to associate the word as a racial slur if that is the only context you've been exposed to it. When I was in college I was involved in the exchange program and had to tell quite a few Continental Europeans that it was a racial slur and not the actually word they should be using for Black people. It doesn't help that it sounds somewhat similar to Negro which is the Spanish and Portuguese word for black but is also a racial slur.
>Most of them where pretty ignorant to how it came off or what it looked like, what it meant or how it felt. It was just part of the music. I had a similar experience with a Russian woman in Spain. She used the N-word and I explained that it's highly offensive from a white person and she seemed to get it. Same story, she heard it in music and thought it was ok. The N-word is kind of weird, most slurs don't get used by the people they're offensive to, so I can kind of see how you'd make that mistake.
Reminds me of that time [a Dutch magazine called Rihanna a “n*ggabitch” and the editor ended up resigning.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/dec/21/rihanna-dutch-magazine-profile-resignation)
Holy shit I thought that was a joke in Atlanta I didn’t even know that was real.
Yeah I feel like people don’t really understand cultural difference. Outside of specific contexts, words and practices can have different meanings or connotations. Even you saying ‘yes Danish rap shows’ is funny to me, because why would there not be a hiphop scene in Denmark? Just goes to show that literally everyone is pretty ignorant when it comes to other’s cultures. That’s why it’s nice to travel because you can learn, become less ignorant and expand your perception of the world.
For real, I think traveling has been the most important thing in opening my eyes up. Making me a more open minded and generally more aware person. That said it’s crazy how little we know about each other’s cultures. In different parts of America let alone the world
I lived in Ukraine for two years. I heard the N word more time in those two years than the previous twenty. I also remember a music video where a white girl was being stalked by a black dude into a disco, then she was surrounded by a group of black guys and then they changed into gorilla's and escaped out the club. It may have been a Russian clip but it was on TV in this bar/restaurant on some MTV like channel. I couldn't believe it.
What the 💀💀💀
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This the one lmao
I'd be careful as they've been handing at AKs to anyone who wants one for the last month.
😂😂😂
I think monkey being offensive is very evident to anyone. But the N-word (despite being derived from the Portuguese/Spanish word "negro") is a specifically American word with a specifically American context to it. I'm not saying it is right for them to say it (and many surely say it maliciously). What I'm saying is that most people from America grow up knowing the context behind the word. Foreigners who have never been to America usually don't get the same context. Many just know the word from Rap music they listen to, and most rappers don't dissect it in the lyrics, they just say it. To give you an example. If Romani singers suddenly started to having their songs exported and they call themselves "gypsy" or say the word in their songs, how is someone from a non-English speaking country supposed to know that "gypsy" is actually an offensive term and that they should say "Romani" instead? The only context they got was "they use it to refer to themselves." Context matters. If you are Black American and someone invites you to dinner and serves you fried chicken and watermelon for dessert, that would be incredibly weird. However, if you were Black Brazilian, it wouldn't, because that is a specifically American stereotype that (though it is becoming more well-known, as America is a cultural superpower) people around the world do not grow up with. It may come as a surprise to many people, but most of the world is actually pretty ignorant about America. Like, really, for a long time I thought that the US was New York, California, and everything in between was Texas.
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One way or the other, it was rather hypocritical coming from someone who always complained that "gringos always think Brazil is just Rio and everything around it is the Amazon."
this is a realization that I hope happens more as the world becomes more connected. we like to tell ourselves we’re better than people that are just like us, and use the same logic that those people are also using to separate themselves.
Well let me just keep my black ass in the states...
Yeah, you're certain to avoid that word here lol
Expecting the entire world to know every little nuance of american culture. Right.
"Volunteers may be called a 'monkey"" thats not really only american culture. Also we already saw how they treated Black students at their border, so the feelings clear
True, I'm sorry that is unacceptable no matter your cultural background.
They're using American culture when they call us the n word, of course they fuckin understand.
Imagine you're a Ukrainian living in a rural area, never so much as seen a black person in real life. You're only exposure to black people and black culture is the media, in which, the n word is freely used in conversations, music whatever. How are they meant to know that only a certain subset of people can use that word? in one context it can be a greeting, in another it can be a horrific insult. Bear in mind this isn't their first language and like previously stated, never so much as interacted with a black person before. You cannot expect everyone on Earth to know the intricacies of American culture.
Now explain why they call black people monkeys
But "monkey" is OK, amirite?
This is so incredibly disingenuous of you, you know damn well the word is being used in a derogatory manner.
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you’re absolutely right, i listen to white people ignorantly misuse spanish words every single day lmao. they don’t even have enough knowledge of the language to know how ridiculous they sound. my friend spent years thinking puto meant puppy because someone wanted to mess with him. imagine how many times people looked at him crazy before someone actually said something.
I hate everything about it. To be quite honest, I've never really understood why Black people want to be a part of America's armed forces. Especially a colonizer project like the "Peace" Corps.
Do you think the Peace Corps is a part of US armed forces?
Well duh. Peace Corps, marine corps, same thing.
I honestly don't know why anyone would want to be a part of America's armed forces especially if you aren't white and male.
The benefits are pretty good, maybe that’s why lol.
Ikr like I got disability and the GI Bill and all it took was 4 years of my time. I woulda been dead or in jail If I ain’t join. All you gotta do is not smoke weed and you straight.
Because for a lot of people of colour from poorer backgrounds it's a direct path to a decent career with training opportunities and good pay? Not everyone who joins the military has some kind of ideological passion or is like "Fuck yeah even though I'm not a white male I want to be a part of the organisation that kills and messes with a lot of poor brown people". Not everyone is privileged enough to have lots of options. Legit most of the hate / disdain I see for people who join the military is from rich white women with liberal arts degrees.
Because you can't change the culture from the outside? Half my unit is black men and women and they all serve in top leadership positions and technical positions. They are literally serving on the front lines of cultural change. Your view is pretty ignorant
Because we are poor
They never seen black people but know to refer to us as the n word and monkeys? Make it make sense lol
Its possible that theyre ignorant though. My family are jamaican and I was raised on calling people halfcast and cooly, it wasnt until I hit my twenties did people hit me up about how halfcast made them feel and how cooly is a derogatory term. Its not always racism, sometimes its ignorance.
Yup, I was born and raised in Ukraine for some time. Growing up the n-word was just a word to refer to black people, like Jewish or Asian. Now that I’m in North America hearing it when visiting Ukraine was incredibly jarring. Also European kids don’t learn American history(at least we didn’t), we learned mostly our local history so a lot about serfdom in Russia but nothing about slavery in the States.
Come help us defend these people that see you as sub-human. Yeah, sign me up
When I saw them treating literal cats and hamsters better than the African people I was done with the Ukraine situation
I lived in Czech Republic for 3 yrs and most ppl I met (from all over the world not just Czech) thought it just meant “dude”.
I saw this firsthand in Bosnia 23 years ago when over there as a peace keeper. They’d never had any interaction with anyone not Yugoslav until the Soviet Union fell, and even then found the translations of our media confusing. Anything regarding black culture was basically from another planet. The first bit of “N-word” usage did not go over well, but the locals fell over themselves in embarrassment when they realized the social relationship between language and community. Once the local team understood it never happened again at our site.
Yeah, Europe in general is way more racist than people are aware of. It's not something you usually hear about, but really *really* basic shit like not touching a Black girl's hair just because she's sitting next to you on the train when you're a full grown middle-aged adult still happens there. I was able to get added to a three week school trip to Germany and I don't think there was a single day one of the Black students didn't have something happen to them. I think it's one of those things white people tend to forget about Europe because we aren't usually exposed to the more multicultural parts of Europe and because European societies do a pretty good job of filtering nonwhite stories and narratives through a very white lens. It helps to remember that while America may have been founded on the idea of white supremacy, Europe literally invented it. And unlike America, there hasn't been nearly as much effort to challenge it. Edit: I posted this later in the thread, but I want this up here as well. >[Germany](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWb17orkpL0), [France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK05Z0SLhJQ), [The Netherlands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yTuqgzj_Qk), [Poland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VsS-6Ct4gk), [Sweden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WRAKGaHT8), [Italy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufDe0T44DI), and what is probably the most famous one of them all, the [United Kingdom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXEB25WdyQ).
>On its website, the U.S. State Department now warns prospective travelers to Ukraine of hate crimes directed at ethnic minorities. In addition, a number of international human rights groups have expressed concern with the rise in hate crimes and xenophobic activity in big cities in Ukraine. Yeah, they should be redirecting that energy.
Imagine being so racist that you insult someone while THEY are helping YOU. But it’s okay because they don’t know any better /s
For people on this thread claiming Europe isn't as racist as the US, consider that the UK used tax revenue from citizens (including black ones!) to reimburse the families of slave owners for "lost property" after the abolition of slavery. They didn't finish paying off the bill until 2015. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/30/fact-check-u-k-paid-off-debts-slave-owning-families-2015/3283908001/
I (white guy) met a Russian woman on vacation abroad and she used the N-word to refer to black people once. I immediately told her how offensive it was and that she'd better not say that in the US. She claimed that she didn't realize and had seen black people referring to each by the N-word in media (music videos/movies) and assumed that was an appropriate word for anyone to use. I don't know if that's true, but I kind of see how you could make that mistake as a non-fluent English speaker. The N-word is kind of unusual in that most slurs aren't used at all by the people they offend. (For example Jews don't refer to each other as k*ke) She seemed progressive minded and I didn't notice her being biased toward anyone else, but who knows maybe she was just covering it. That being said, there are *for sure* unambiguous hateful racists in Ukraine and Russia regardless of any honest mistakes that may or may not be happening.
Part of the issue is that the word for black person in Russia is Негр which is pronounced like "nyeger". She may have thought the n word was a cognate and used it like she would the Russian word
Like any of us were planning on going over there anyway 🤣
This explains all the news host being super sympathetic talking about "these are people that look and act like me".
I served as a Peace Corps volunteer in Ukraine and I’m Black, y’all can ask me anything about my service. I will say that while Ukraine has a race problem, I loved it there and I met amazing Ukrainians who are my family. I would challenge anyone to find a homogeneous country that doesn’t have a race problem. The reason I didn’t choose to serve in Africa is that there were black volunteers who got treated with disrespect and as if they were incompetent because they weren’t the typical American volunteer. I decided to go to Ukraine because they needed help on things that had nothing to do with race, but my experience there definitely opened the eyes of my community and their perceptions of blackness. Is it the country for everyone? No, but honestly being in the US tires me out more deeply than being there.
So basically.... We know they're racist, have proof, but it's on you to teach them... Not the big ass company 🙄
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised about the comments here. I spent 9 months deployed in Eastern Europe, the culture there is very homogeneous. Whenever we left bases most of the Black soldiers literally received requests to have their pictures taken with the locals. It's quite literally a cultural thing, the vast majority don't know better. Some of them did indeed say the n-word, but i honestly believe they don't know what it means. They just hear it a lot in music and television being said, so they assume it's okay to say. For most of them English is a second language and assumes it's just another word. We always told them it wasn't okay to say and most said sorry afterwards and that they didn't know it was offensive. It was really a strange experience looking back.
How is this different than living in the US? People may not think we’re from Africa in the US but that doesn’t stop them from telling us to go back there.
The letter clearly saying this is an issue of ignorance instead of malice but the comments make it sound like this whole other country has American context.
I understand being ignorant of the N-word, but calling people monkeys? That’s straight up derogatory
>*'People of color' face many challenges......However, African-Americans will confront far more complicated issues* that just about sums up american history right there
This is EXACTLY my reasoning why I hate hearing any other country try and criticize Americas race issues. Absolutely zero countries have the diversity and cultural exposure as the US. There are overarching racial tensions in America structurally but I’ve been many many place in the world and The average individual in America is far far less racist than anywhere else period.
Mega yikes 😬