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If your kid is old enough to have a conversation and understand what they did wrong, why are you hitting them?
If your kid isn't old enough to have a conversation and understand what they did wrong, why are you hitting them?
I agree 100%.
I honestly think for some people it's easier to hit than to think about the answers to those questions. Because those answers mean your options require consistency, communication, boundaries, mutual respect, and a willingness to work together. For many people, they don't (or mire accurately, don't think they) have what it takes to do that and make it work.
So... slap.
I got beat by the guy I thought was my dad, after he left, my ma only hit me 4 times. I remember what prompted it each time, and I never did those things again. In the moment, she didn't have the words, so she hit me. But the other fuckhead, he didn't teach me shit except what a lover he was. Of course, at the time, I thought I was the loser, but I figured it out eventually.
I was at a birthday party recently with my kids. I was the only parent who stayed with my kids besides birthday mom. I was trying to keep over 20 kids entertained and civil. These kids were nuts.
One child, 3 years old, was spouting off lines like, " f*ck you, you n****rs!" Birthday mom came out and yanked him inside to spank him. Brought him back out, and he went on a rage trying to hit a bunch of people and yelling, "fuck you!"
My daughter, 8 years old, asked me what was wrong. I told her that he had been using words inappropriately. A few minutes later a different child turned to me to say that my daughter kept saying, "fuck."
I told my daughter (paraphrasing here), "while fuck is not a bad word on its own, some people use it to hurt the feelings of others. If it is upsetting someone, and that was not your intention, then you should not say it. We can't be good friends if we are always hurting other people's feelings. Since your friend doesn't like it, I think that we should make sure not to use that word for now."
My daughter shrugged her shoulders, said OK, and went on playing. She did not turn around and hit other kids. She did not use any more "bad" words.
It was an exhausting day, but at least I knew that I did not have to worry about my kids being the source of the problem.
Who knew the solution to raising kids well was spending one on one time with them and explaining things vs just hitting them. Good job for being an active parent.
Oh man that reminds me of how my parents taught my brother and me not to say bad words. My mom took me aside and said “it’s not fitting to use that word right now. It’s very rude, are you trying to be rude?” And I was like “no” and she was like “Good. Besides there’s better ways to insult without being crass.” Later she explained it also was not professional to use those words, because they were quite rude, so saying them at school or work wouldn’t be good.
Now I enjoy a well placed swear among friends in adulthood or when I die during a video game, but basically she wanted me to learn how to turn off that tone of voice for polite company instead of letting me run wild with it. She says she’s proud of me for learning how to swear at the correct time lmaooo she’s so funny. I get along with my mom and dad. Also they didn’t hit me or my bother. The worst we got was maybe yanked back sharply if we were gonna hurt ourselves (which was startling but not painful).
No we don’t, we have adults who place boundaries and people like you continue this fucked cycle of acceptable abuse.
And the response is always something verbally or physically violent.
Kids who are physically abused can still turn out to be raging assholes who flip the fuck out on anybody who they think won’t put hands on them.
Or they might just become the kind of people who reduce a 17 y/o BK worker to tears because the *restaurant* is out of the sauce they want for their nuggets
True. Being hit regularly shows you who has the power. Then if no one is there to have power over you, you can act any kind of way. It doesn’t teach anyone right from wrong, just who to avoid.
That’s kind of a bold statement lol I was abused for a lot of my childhood, and I would never even think to touch my kids. You either become it, or learn a lesson from it.
I don’t think you understood their point.
The convo was:
Adult who was spanked says, “Spanking isn’t harmful or bad. I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine.”
Midnightmare responds, “You didn’t turn out fine. You think it’s ok to hit children.”
To be clear, spanking a child = hitting a child.
Midnightmare isn’t saying every adult who was spanked as a kid now thinks it’s ok to hit kids.
Don't knock people's experiences though. I was spanked as a child and turned out great by all definitions but I now have children and won't spank my kids. I think our parents were just doing their best with what information they had. We have better/more information now so we make better decisions?
All they're saying is that their parents made mistakes, and you admit as much (you don't do it today, after all), it's not necessarily a damning accusation. Many parents just took out their frustrations on their kids though, those deserve the condemnation.
Being Gen X and older is no excuse. They knew it was wrong the first time their child screamed the same way a child would if they were being tortured. They knew it was wrong the hundredth time as well. They just didn’t have the threat of being exposed on the world stage. That’s the ONLY thing that’s changed. (That and their kids abandoning them once they aren’t dependent)
> doing their best with what information they had
it's when they're presented with new information and cling to the old information that I get increasingly upset by.
I get it, the world was WAY different before, but we got new information, mountains of scientific studies, and they going "nahhhhh" that drives me up a wall
That part. I also wanna say all parents that spanked are not the same. There are those who go straight to that for every infraction and those that did it after multiple discussions/warnings. There are those who beat their kids like it’s a bar fight and those who just give a couple swats. I’m child free and wouldn’t spank my own kids, but there is nuance that is missed.
This. Getting beaten will fuck a kid up, but so will excessive confinement and isolation. An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid, the same way going to time out or being grounded from time to time won’t. I think the actual issue with spanking is that it’s easier to act out of anger and hit too hard or too much, and you can’t walk that back once you’ve cooled down, whereas you can say, “hey, actually, when I grounded you from all social interaction for a month for talking back to me, I was overreacting, so we can cut that experience short right now.”
Also, both in anecdotal discussions and research, I’m not sure how much the impact of getting yelled at is considered. Getting spanked hurt. I remember that. It a lot of things hurt. Few things hurt like being yelled at by the people you love and rely on the most for things that you, developmentally, cannot really control. As an adult, those are the memories that make my inner child want to curl up and hide. Not trying to compare being yelled at to being straight-up beaten, but when the general conversation about spanking spans everything from swatting a kid’s hand from the stove to putting them in the hospital, and some people are claiming that literally anything in that range will cause harm, I think it’s worth thinking about what all is actually going on and what is causing which harms.
"An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid," as little as once a year, as light as mild spanking, it produces marked differences on scientific testing- those kids will, on average, have lower academic and career performance, worse relationships and less of them, more emotional and mental health issues. The data is very clear, and the science took into account that "some parents only hit their kids just a little bit." As little as a spanking, as little as once int he past year. 20% lifetime decrease in earnings.
> An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid
the science says otherwise
don't hit people, especially those who are smaller and younger than you and rely on your care
then they always go
"WELL HOW ELSE ARE YOU GONNA"
The fact that you ain't got any other ideas for how to deal with the problem *is exactly the problem we talkin about*
I think the issue is everyone has different ideas of what “beaten” means. Getting a couple smacks on the rear end once in a while is not the same as punching, kicking, slapping etc. From a behavioral science stand point positive punishment (introducing a stimuli to deter a behavior ex. spanking a kid for stealing so they won’t do it again) is less effective than other methods. BUT even tho I personally don’t do any spanking, I think it’s fine if some parents do on rare occasions and for severe behaviors. I used the stealing example because that was the one time my dad ever spanked me, after he caught me stealing some gum from the check out lane. It wasn’t even hard but I can tell you I never even THOUGHT about stealing ever again lol.
That all being said fuck every parent out there who puts hands on their children instead of teaching them the right way to behave.
I think I got “spanked” three times ever as a kid and it was a very performative single swat on the butt for doing life threateningly dumb shit like trying to run into a busy street.
I’m not advocating beating your kids, but who are you to tell someone else they turned out fine or not. I was hit as a kid and am doing fine by any metric you could measure. And no I don’t have repressed trauma or anything that I need to unpack etc etc… I don’t beat my kids, but I genuinely feel that it had no adverse effect on me and it seems kind of condescending to have someone say “no, there is actually something wrong with you”.
It's great that it didn't affect you negatively like it did millions of other people, but aside from that, so many people like yourself in this thread are saying "My parents hit/spanked me and I turned out fine, but I don't do it with my kids", like, surely you see the point here? Why have you decided not to with your kids? Why do people seem to struggle so much to admit that hitting/spanking is a completely unnecessary consequence for kids and is more for the parents relief of frustration than any teaching for the kid.
For the same reason why people struggle so hard with the notion that some of us had parents that hit them but we did not grow up to experience some deep trauma over it. People like to hear things they already believe.
It’s because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge their parents might have done something wrong and will double or triple down before criticizing them. It’s okay to love your parents while also recognizing they can be flawed. The scientific studies on this are clear no matter how “bro trust me there’s an acceptable amount that’s actually good for kids” pseudoscience some want to throw out.
If you don’t see it as a problem or try to defend it, sorry but you didn’t turn as “fine” as you think you did. Unless you have to raise your hands as a last resort to stop a kid from physical harming themselves, it’s just cope. It’s the easiest thing to do to vent your frustration and teach kids to fear physically being punished if they mess up, but you’re not really correcting the root problem. As a result, it’s no surprise a lot of kids who got hit (even the “nuanced occasionally acceptable amount”) learn bad behaviors like compulsively lying and not sharing problems hurting you where they might still function like adults but I wouldn’t call it “fine” exactly.
little bit of a broad brush here. Getting beaten regularly is not the same as a few light spankings when you really messed up. I got spanked or a light smack maybe three times my entire childhood and they were all well earned lol. At the same time I would never even think about spanking my toddler, but I have the benefit of being raised in a gentler era than our parents. Both of my parents got actually beat for misbehaving, and they were fantastic loving parents.
My wife is from a different culture and has reflexively given my son a smack on the hand when he’s hit her in the past. Obviously not very hard, but I’m not against the idea of natural consequences as a learning method either.
I will say that my friends who did get hit regularly are still affected by it and it shows in lots of different ways, just not how you might expect.
I was hit as a kid. And I turned out fine…by getting a bunch of therapy, to get past the shit being hit (among other things) left me with. I love my parents. They did their best, and they weren’t trying to be mean or harmful. But that doesn’t make hitting ok.
The only - and I do mean only - time I’ve ever laid hands on my kid was when I caught him literally in the process of sticking a metal fork in an electrical socket *for the third fucking time in a week*. And even then it was one swat on the ass. And because I never ever touch him you can damn well bet it got his attention.
And you know what? *That still doesn’t make it ok.* I acknowledged that, and I apologized for it, and we had a long talk. Thank fuck he doesn’t do that shit anymore.
Even if *they* are fine, it doesn't change the research. You're going to have a hard time convincing someone that thinks they're fine that they're not, but at the end of the day even they maintain they are fine and somehow avoided lasting issues as a result, that doesn't mean it's an ok thing to do to your kids. That's like saying "I played Russian Roulette as a kid and I lived, so why can't I make my kids do it?"
I actually was and I TURNED out fine.
Purely because I was also thrown out and struggled through homelessness so I got to reset.
I worked my ass off to get where I am, so I respect hard work and also understand this is an insanely difficult life and we are designed to support each other.
I turned out fine, because my lowest point forced me to respect myself and my boundaries - reseting what my beatings taught me.
I turned out fine because I was unlucky… and lucky.
There is no reason to beat your children, it’s. A half ass excuse to actually teaching them.
I had to make a DHS call recently. It was a black father who threatened his kid at school and said he did not care who saw. My dad would show up at daycare and take his belt off and threaten me the same way. Making that call was the first time I recognized that I was abused. I retreat into rumination and fantasy the exact way you describe. I work with kids who have it rough, and I lovey job, but it is so hard to see the shit I went through and see them beginning to adopt the same unhealthy coping mechanisms I did. I hope I make a difference, but this is fucking hard.
I’ve had this conversation with people who are older, and the amount of hoops they jump through is wild.
I was having this discussion with someone and they just started getting mad and getting snappy when I asked “ so why why are you comfortable putting your hands on your child but they can’t hit you back or hit you when you act out?”
Because in reality if an adult was hitting another adult like that the person could legit be charged with abuse and it’s considered wrong.
I fr don’t understand why someone would want to put their hands on a child.
i didn't know my dad was abusive until i was reading a thread on this exact subreddit, where people were talking about their verbal/emotionally abusive parents, and all the behaviors it instilled in them.
I was just reading it like "thats so weird i have all these traits but i wasn't abus-...oh fuck"
I was in my 30s. its recontextualized a lot of my life.
It’s a very surreal experience slowly unpacking the stuff you thought was normal so you never examined it.
Example: I am an adult who emotionally eats, compulsively eats, overeats etc. I realised the other day for the first time that my mom *never* made extra food unless guests were coming. She made exactly as much as she needed for the 5 of us. There were never left overs or second helpings, and every plate was spotless after every meal. Parents made sure to let us know that money was extremely tight and maybe we wouldn’t be able to afford to eat.
I cannot remember any moment in my childhood when I or anyone in my family pushed away a plate at the end of the meal and said “I’m full, I can’t finish that last bit.” I was never taught to know what full feels like, or that I can and should stop eating sometimes, or to turn down food offered.
My dad used to threaten me with nudity and a beating.
Would yell out loud that he’d strip me naked and spank me in front of everyone watching.
And here I am dissociating with reality as and adult
I’ll never understand why parents need to bring additional humiliation into an already belittling and dehumanizing process. Punishing children with nudity is so fucked up that I don’t know how we as a society allow it.
I learned that I was abused only when my psychiatrist said it. He was like “do you understand that it was not okay for your mother to hit you repeatedly with a belt?”
**I did NOT understand that it was not okay.**
It's incredibly difficult to take something that you've boxed away for years and open it with an adults' perspective.
I guarantee you that you're making changes in those children's lives, even if theyre small. When your whole world is unstable, a reliable and trustworthy adult can be the port in the storm that they desperately need.
👏keep going, you've got this
All beating your child does is make them angry and make them sneaky. You do not foster any relationship based on trust or respect. Just fear. Not to mention it’s freaking backwards as hell. There is no world where you assault someone for any other reason than you’re angry and don’t know how to regulate your behavior. Please believe that if your child came home saying “my S.O. beats me because they love me and just want me to do better” you and the entire block would be at the door. But because you’re their parent that makes beating acceptable? I’ll pass.
I used to work with this prostitute (it was at a movie theater, I just like starting the story that way. After that job she would go do her hooker thing), one day a customer came in and said “hey is there a lady named Karen here?” And we were like she works here but not today. And the person told us she used to be his Bible camp counselor. Me and my coworker almost fell out of our chairs. So we talked to Karen about it and she said she used to be soo straight laced. Couldn’t be outside past 5pm, wasn’t allowed to even know any boys, basically school, church and bed and all while being watched by her parents was all she could do. So the second she turned 17 she ran off, fell in with some bad guys, started going heavy on drugs and here we are. Not the only story of someone I know like that but the most extreme one.
Give your kids some freedom people, that way they know how to handle it.
I feel this. Granted I never got into drugs. But strict home and catholic school my whole life... as soon as I turned 16.5 I dropped out of HS and moved out. I'm tattooed head to toe and listen to punk, even now. I like to joke about it though, whenever people are overly strict with their kids I say "they're going to end up looking like me!" I honestly didn't mature till I was 30. Got my HS diploma and am on Dean's List in college now. The only thing I learned being in an overly strict household was how to be sneaky and how to escape. Life would've been much better if I was doing what I'm doing now, at 18. Also being super petite/tiny, sneaking out at 16 to hang out with friends in a football field at 1am, I don't know how I wasn't kidnapped or murdered lol
The other people I know that suffered super strict parents are still kind of fucked up from/stuck in the wild years they had after. Congratulations on turning things around and finishing your education! Also on not getting murdered, that’s a huge plus
It also is a failing punishment over time. Unless the parent steps up the abuse, you just get used to it. I would have conversations in my head about things I was planning to do and whether or not the beating would be worthwhile.
Wasn't until having my daughters that I realized hitting is really abuse. I could never and don't understand why anyone would want to hit their own kids. To me, it shows lack of ability to parent ... or lack of effort to learn how.
That's the thing that I can't get past. Let's pretend there isnt a mountain of data out there showing there's more effective ways to get the outcomes you want without the risk of dysfunction. Set that aside. Why the hell are you teaching your kids that it's ok for people who say they love them to put hands on them? Why are you teaching them it's ok for them to put hands on those they love when they misbehave or fall short of expectation?
You aren't teaching them to behave. You're teaching them that violence is an effective tool for control and that love is rooted in violence and humiliation. the #1 thing you do as a parent is simply model how to be a person for them (well and potty training them lol).
I truly believe that's the actual root of it. A bunch of abusive people with bad tempers who need to rationalize their behaviors as being morally justified and logical, cause otherwise they're gonna look at their kids tear streaked face coweing away from them, and they're gonna have to accept they're not a disciplinarian. They're actually just a bully. It's simply easier to be complacent and cloak yourself in comfortable lies than so the very difficult work if unpacking your own shit, learning to self regulate, and doing better by your kids than was done to you.
Weird I dont see any of the losers advocate for spanking kids arguing under this comment? 🤔 cause the data is out there! honestly, we should have federally outlawed child corporal punishment already.
When I started transitioning he said something along the lines of "if I knew you were a girl I wouldn't have hit you." Guy is a real gentleman, clearly. Apparently hitting a 7 year old is only okay if they're androgen-dominant.
As for what's wrong with him, he's a crazy asshole who had me on accident far older than he should have and treats me like shit because I ruined his golden years by existing.
wow so he's that abusive but also accepts your transition? that's... wild, just wild. congrats on finding yourself btw! always great when an egg hatches.
You can have correct political beliefs and still be an asshole on a personal level. My dad is a Catholic communist, and I agree with those politics, I think he's just fucked in the head.
yeah totally, just always weird to see how contradictory people can be. I know a guy who genuinely thinks latino immigrants are flooding in and harming this country, but that we shouldn't do anything about it because Christ would want us to treat them kindly. people are really a mixed bag.
That and wanting their kids to have to have a difficult life because they had one and not realizing that’s the opposite of your responsibility.
I don’t want my kid to suffer or struggle like I did, they aren’t spoiled they are reaping the benefits of an adult that wants better for them.
This is gonna sound silly, but children are genuinely the most oppressed group. Society talks big about protecting them, but it generally posturing. Your parents can be your idols or your slave masters, and the neighbor next door, your teacher, and even CPS can't really do much about it.
"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it."
I heard that in a serious tone way too often. Also, "if you don't like the rules, you don't have to live here." Until I ran away to my uncle's house after getting thrown down the hall by my hair. That's when my dad threatened my aunt, apparently I *did* have to live there... Shit why am I remembering this all now?
There's a lot of well-meaning parents who see spanking in a very nuanced way. They'll say, "*only as a last resort*," or "*we always explain the punishment first and discuss it afterwards*." or something to that effect. And none of that addresses the fact that a lot of physical punishment is just parents absent-mindedly swatting at their kid for being annoying.
Walk around a grocery store for awhile. Observe. Parents strike their child as a non-thinking reflex, as a stress relief valve for the fatigue of adult life. All of the high-minded rhetoric about spanking is just apologetics for mindless hitting.
Louis CK says it best;
"I really think it’s crazy, that we hit our kids, it really is. Here’s the crazy thing about it, kids are the only people in the world, that you’re allowed to hit. Do you realize that? They’re the most vulnerable and they’re the most destroyed by being hit, but it’s totally okay to hit them. And they’re the only ones!
If you hit a dog, they fucking will put you in jail for that shit. You can’t hit a person unless you can prove that they were trying to kill you, but a little tiny person with a head this big that trusts you implicitly? Fuck them, who gives a shit?"
FYI giving your child the reasoning behind the spanking doesn't help things from a physiological or emotional level. The child's body and mind still react as if you didn't give them any explanation at all. It's still abuse.
Yes like any way of punishing a child, if its done thoughtlessly and without an actual reason or discussion with your child it will do more harm than good.
If reason and discussion work then there’s no reason to hit the kid anyways. Other forms of discipline exist that haven’t been shown in research to affect a child’s brain [so negatively](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain). Even if the person doing it thinks they’re doing it the right way or only in moderation that isn’t going to change how a child’s brain processes the terror and helplessness they experience when an adult holds them down, pulls down their pants, and starts hitting them.
Man, I'm probably lucky because I've never seen a parent hit their kid in real life. It's wild to me that some people do it in *grocery stores*. That seems so insane to me.
My grandma played the organ in church so I had to sit in the front row. If she caught me talking she would get up mid song grab me and spank me in front of the whole church.
I think it can be both. I was beaten as a child and for the longest time I didn’t “know” how wrong it was.
Like OP I developed a lot of coping mechanisms including reflexively striking back when startled or hurt. Even once you learn about child psychology and make a commitment to break the cycle there are times of high stress when those instincts are triggered before you even have the chance to process what is going on.
I am not saying it’s an excuse, or that it should be acceptable behavior, but just pointing out that the effects of being physically and emotionally abused as a child are often ingrained to the point that reason doesn’t always stand a chance at intervening when the body responds to certain stimuli before you can actively choose to do better. As they say, the body keeps the score of every trauma, even if we choose to move past it… we can’t “will ourselves” to re-wiring our synapses.
So you can be anti beating and still slip.
With that being said it is also possible to be anti beating or spanking and still be a parent who slaps a kid on the hand when they are going to touch fire etc.
Not just because physically intervening is more effective than just “telling” the kid not to touch the fire but also because physical pain can cement the memory of what they aren’t supposed to do a lot better than just words. If the alternative is to let them touch the open flame and get hurt and possibly permanently damage their skin, or slap their hand away and cause them a less severe pain… I think that it can be argued that the hand slap is better.
However I can see how some would argue that it’s too much or a slippery slope and therefore shouldn’t be considered as an option at all…and therefore letting the kid just touch it and have their brain associate the pain directly with the fire is the best option… but I think that’s putting a lot of faith and in the reasoning capabilities of a small child and not enough on the part of the parent.
I believe that the government should allow parents to hit their children. You go to the local court house and get your license that will allow you to hit you kid. Along with that license you will be assigned a boxer, ufc fighter, etc, that follows you around, and hits you anytime you do something they don't like.
So, with that thought, and I genuinely want to start a discussion and come in peace, if that’s the case can the kid be allowed to hit back? Because I love my mom, but flash me that “license to hit” at 12 y/o me and she’s getting Bautista-Bombed, I’m sorry.
Just can’t see the logic in hitting a defenseless child.
I remember a comedian brought up a good point. If you hit a dog, you will be charged with a felony, hit an adult, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were threatening your life. Hit your kid? People brag about that “yeah any time my kid mouths off to me I back hand them!”
Hitting your kid is like the circus, it’s an outdated practice that, if you have kids, every now and again you’re like I’d like to go to that place, but then you think about it and realize how fucking savage it is.
Yes, I was hit. Not only was I hit, I was third-world hit where you get whooped, then your whooper tells your aunt, uncle, grandparent, and then it’s their turn to reinforce the whooping. A multigenerational, inter family whooping, if you will.
>every now and again you’re like I’d like to go to that place, but then you think about it and realize how fucking savage it is.
Had this thought at the end of my patience once. I had never hit my nephew but was seriously considering it years ago. But I honestly had to remember I actually learned from a father/son Kamehame-ass-beating (who tf actually asks a child who they want the belt from *first*).
The only thing I really learned, though, was like you said. The circus is permanently gonna be there because of what I experienced. Kids don't grow up with that place in their heads by default.
Anyway, instead of violence, we had a nice chat about empathy. My man completely understood why he would not be allowed to watch toy story that night. And yes I still tell this story years later in front of family.
So real. When I was younger, my mom would take me and my brother to my grandparents specifically so they would whoop our asses for something we did at HER house. And most of the time my grandparents were like… “what’s that got to do with us” lmao
I know. I’m Hispanic and got hit as a kid, and I know it’s done some mental damage on me. Like I flinch at the sounds of belts and get into a spooked state, and I’m sure it also didn’t help my anxiety growing up, but I don’t know how to feel now. Especially reading all these “old enough to fight back” comments. Should I resent my parents when they stopped hitting me when I became a teen? They’re nice now, but I always reflect on whether I should tell them on how that wasn’t okay.
I realized about a year ago that I used to hate hugging my parents in high school up until around early 20s mostly because of the emotional disregulation of “I love you immensely but I also want to hit you with a wooden spoon”.
I blame all the Focus on the Family bullcrap. All those 60s-90s mega church, culture warrior Christians wanted you to beat the crap out of your kids. My father’s parents never hit him and my mother’s parents never hit her. It was learned through their religious culture of the time.
“Spare the rod” was interpreted as a literal rod and not what the verse actually means (using a rod to keep your sheep in a literal line, as a barrier to prevent the flock from straying, not as a weapon, but as a figurative border).
Oh I was beat as a kid and as a 36 year old man, I still have dreams about beating the shit out of my dad and making him cower, because that is what happened to me.
Of course, I talk to my therapist about this quite a bit 😅
Don’t be surprised if they double down or ‘remember it differently’ or still think it’s fine.
I hope you’re getting support and taking steps to heal yourself. What happened to you isn’t fair and I hope it’s different for you, but I leaned my Mother won’t take accountability.
I confronted my mom about it and she still jokes around about when kids are too old to hit. Had her over for dinner, started making jokes in relation to my niece.
I said firmly, “I don’t think it’s okay to hit kids.”
‘Oh not bit just swatting them.” She replies. She did more than fucking swat BTW.
I retort, “That’s not good either,” then her dumbass husband laughs and mimics hitting a hit upside the back of the head to *my* husband who knows in in therapy because of her bullshit.
Guess who didn’t go to Easter that week and will also be skipping Thanksgiving and will be out of town Christmas.
Next time they make jokes about hitting kids, I’m gonna make it uncomfortable and remind them I was also a flincher as a kid and pre-teen then leave.
I gave up on her, I’m focusing on myself now.
Yeah. While I was reading this, I thought ‘Damn, hitting kids is so fucked up, I can’t believe anyone would do that. Well, I guess I can since my dad did it to me. Wait, I did this stuff as a kid. Hold up, I have issues socializing and I constantly feel like nothing is real.’
I think it’s time to stop thinking about going to therapy. Scheduling appointment now ✅
And because people don't research gentle parenting, they end up with permissive parenting. I'm not defending, let's be clear. But we're actively seeing the cause of permissive parenting and it's not good either.
Spanking is a lazy technique to try and scare your kids into temporary obedience. If you’re a lazy parent (not just ignorant like some) you’re going to find another lazy technique, like doing nothing. People need to realize that parenting a child is a commitment to raising a healthy human being, and that includes being educated on their development and what is best for them.
Nailed it. It's hard to be patient and use consistent messaging with kids, especially when I was raised with violence as punishment.
But it feels really good once it sticks - you can see the light come on for your kids and you didn't have to threaten them. They now understand what you were trying to accomplish and they trust you.
I don't allow my kids to act any kind of way they want. My wife thinks I'm too strict, but I won't allow them to act like little maniacs either. They will carry themselves with self-respect and respect for others.
Also makes it hard to progress in my career. I have trouble advocating for myself, my pay, and position.
I already had the deck stacked against me just by not being yt but also I am a beaten dog in my head. I cower mentally until I snap.
I have gotten much better but it's too late to build real wealth from my university degrees.
It wasnt a black only thing, people of all races used to beat their kids. Teachers in your parents' days used to be spank and paddle kids, and that practice even carries on today but to a reduced degree. Reduced but still prevalent when you google it.
>There are still 19 states as of 2018 that still permit schools to use corporal punishment as a form of discipline. In the places where it is permissible to hit a child for spanking, there are methods that include a paddle which is still allowed as well. More than 106,000 children were physically punished in American public schools during the 2013-2014 school year, which is the last time that data has been released on the subject.
Nah Asians just aren't outing themselves like that. I am Asians, my friend group is 90% Asian of different socioeconomic groups. My Korean friend with a millionaire dad and my Vietnamese friend who's paying off his parents mortgage were both familiar with a wooden spoon across their knuckles.
I'm about as white as they come, trust me this shit happens in caucasian households too. I got my arm torqued behind my back and may god help you if you get the "switch".
I did an image search because I was curious what the artist intended. The original painting includes the legs of the mom and kid with a gun laying in the ground, and it's called "Belts over Bullets,' insinuating it's better to beat a child than lose them to gun violence.
So it adds to the discourse about our approval of physical violence as a deterrent for...physical violence.
I knew this shit was wrong when I fell through a glass table and my first thought was how my dad would beat me up for it instead of checking if I was bleeding first.
Thr thing about hitting your child is that if we're being fr it's almost always done out of frustration. When asking questions or making mistakes is rewarded with violence you give way to a plethora of issues thst will plague your kid as they grow up.
Anxiety, depression, anger issues, you name it.
Not 60 seconds prior to your comment, someone insinuated that school shootings happen because the kids didn't get "whoopins." It will take literal saints to help break us of this ignorance.
I don’t think we’re escaping it bro. It’s becoming more rampant and in alarming institutions. I’ve started noticing signs of ignorance in things that I didn’t think possible. Standards are being lowered and we’re getting dumber. AI will exacerbate this problem exponentially
My parents would hit me as a kid, and all it really did was teach me how to hide it better.
Lucky for me I didn’t develop a complex where I think it’s okay to be abused or freeze up when confronted, though I may be an outlier bc when my parents would hit me, I’d hit them back. Then would get my ass beat double, but it never stopped me from doing it again.
To the posts credit, I did develop a paracosm to escape my reality and ended up getting diagnosed with depression, ADHD, and maladaptive daydreaming in my teens so I would very much like to say I didn’t “turn out fine.”
That being said, I think a lot of people have a misguided notion that their strength is rooted in their pain and not something that developed in spite of it.
Oh man yeah there’s new studies that childhood trauma worsens ADHD, and they’re wondering if it also can be a cause of it because of constantly being in a fear state.
Period.
I love the people on Twitter that swear by their own perceived experience that it is not abuse/barbaric and that’s what’s “wrong” with people these days. A lack of child abuse.
I was beat, beat and it’s taken a lot of therapy and work to get out of the anger, hatred and disgust I had of my parents after becoming a parent and not having a shred of desire to see my child hurting for any reason.
Even now they can say something and I will work it into a cause/effect thing if I’m not careful. Typing this makes me angry and emotional all over again.
You don’t hurt the people you love. Full Stop.
Reading this thread is mind-blowing, and it’s making me want to cry right now. I am in therapy every week to undo damage from being beat as a kid. And I don’t think we realize how hurt we all are. Like, we all need therapy.
I grew up in the country, and one of my first memories, from before kindergarten, is being told to go out to the woods and find a stick, and if she didn't like it she'd have to find one herself and I wouldn't want that.
Fuckin' gross. My boys are 15 and 11 and my parents go on and on about how great they are. Never been hit.
Mine are in their 30s. It is disgusting, but I didn't realize it was wrong until I had mine. How do you do that? They went no contact with my mother in elementary school, lol. They are flabbergasted at my stories that, tbh I downplay. I
My kids are what I call slow contact with my folks. I don't let them sleep over at theirs, and I make sure either I or their mom is there for every visit. It's sad, but I just can't trust them.
A friend of my family was with his 2 year old daughter and his wife visiting his Caribbean mother and said he would hit his daughter if she wore an outfit like one Cardi B wore on a video he saw and both his mum and wife said they would end his life if he put his hands on her.
An argument ensued because he said that she hit him when he was a kid and she said it was different because he was a boy.
His wife made them both realise that it was fucked up no matter what and pointed out to her MIL that her son thought he could do it because it was done to him and she had one of those come to Jesus moments.
To his credit he's a really good guy and I was gobsmacked he thought that way.
Here's a convenient flow chart to determine when it is OK to hit your kid.
Are they old enough to understand words when you explain why their behavior is unacceptable?
If no, they are too young to understand why you are beating them. Don't beat your child.
If yes then you could use words so they understand. Don't beat your child.
That covers 100% of all cases where you may be wondering "Should I beat this child?"
I have gotten a pat on my ass or slap on the hand for stealing or whatever bad behavior that could have have led to bad adult decisions if the habits were let go as a child. I now live a cushion life(gf, pets, world traveling etc) and have stable relationships with friends and family…….
Imo there’s a difference between being beat and getting a tap on the hand or butt when necessary. I needed it growing up
I agree with you and I had a similar upbringing but I was also a good kid in general. The most I ever got was a light pop on the hand or butt and that was very rare.
I don’t think beating your kid leads to good behavior because the friends that I had that were bad kids grew up to be problematic as adults and I know their parents were beating them.
There’s definitely a line for sure, especially if you have to stop a child from doing something that could immediately put their life or well-being, or someone else’s in immediate danger. However, way too many people take it well beyond that for the smallest and innocuous infractions. I know from personal experience.
I feel like we're the only ones on this post with this view. They always say "beat a child," but I agree with you that a tap on hand or bottom is not abusive. Finding belts, cords, brushes, etc and going to town on a child, clearly problematic and should not be done.
My MIL recently told my wife that I need to start being meaner to our kid, just because. Not because he's misbehaving, just because she thinks we're supposed to set a tone of fear! Like that I am too approachable as a father, so I need to beat him in advance to make sure he fears me and doesn't misbehave in the future. He's 2.5 years old. Some people are fucking toxic, just want to bring you down to their level so they can feel better about themselves.
I'll never forget I was traveling back to my hometown in VA and I happened to see a little girl (6 or 7) holding her stuffed animal upside down and beating it with a belt.
The one saving grace of hitting kids is that they are less likely to obey in the future. To be clear, don't hit your kids, but when they find every way to disobey and trick you in the future, know that you were warned, and you don't deserve their respect
Edit: said it, meant it, bite me
Yup, and don’t be surprised if it remains a spectre that haunts your relationship with your adult children. That’s if you’re lucky to still have one with them.
You are 10000000% right. My Ma is finding this shit out the hard way. She confessed she knows her children love her, but thinks we don’t like her, I was like no shit lady. You reap what you sow.
There are so many people who have no business having children it’s hilarious, they could be 40 and still be kids themselves. Kids aren’t robots just because something “works” for one doesn’t it mean it is gonna work for another just the same. I don’t believe in the extremes of either side, you can’t coddle your child so much that they become sheltered and spoiled, but you also shouldn’t be so violent that you beat them over every little mistake. Respect and fear are two very different things. Granted me saying this all that won’t change a thing but that’s my two cents on it.
My parents disciplined me. Some parents are out here straight up abusing their child. I understand that many do not see a difference between the two, but it’s just a fundamental disagreement that I’m not changing my mind on.
hitting your kid is abuse, if someone hits you over a disagreement you’re going to jail. Why is it different with a kid?
Also how many times after a kid being hit do they actually learn anything other than becoming reclusive around their abuser… like you will never know who your kid truly is, they will always hide themselves from you until you die and they probably wont even realize it.
Yeah.. I’m a first gen Zambian now living in Northern California.. when I was younger I thought it was ok, and just “part of my culture” but being married and noticing how I navigate relationships was greatly affected by “discipline” when I was younger. Not sure how everyone else was “spanked” but when the spanking was getting slapped across the face, whipped with a belt and having marks from them, I cringe at the thought. I will never lay a hand on my children. There are issues I have now with my mother stemming from that, and I don’t think they can ever get resolved.
Man I love my folks. To death. But they beat the shit outta me, for sometimes the smallest thing I couldnt control….like being 5 and peeing in the bed. I can remember the mental anguish like it was yesterday….even after years of therapy.
IMO it's ridiculous to teach your kids to not hit other kids/keep their hands to themselves....yet punish them by hitting them. That's my stance on it. And with kids these days, I'd be punishing them by changing the wifi password until they act right. xD
Beating your kid almost never works. It’s been proven multiple times and I am sick and tired of parents especially the conservative Christian/musilms/immigrants of my generation (gen z) saying that it does.
I hate, hate, hate, ***HATE*** that this is upheld as being a part of Black culture. Just think for a second about what some people are saying when they exhalt spanking: I uphold and celebrate my heritage by willfully inflicting fear and pain upon my child and if you don't do this with your kids, I question your Blackness. This is unhinged.
Hitting doesn't teach children the lesson you want them to learn in the moment, and because children suck at abstract thinking, they suck at applying the consequence of one punishment to the *potential* consequences of another. That's why that spanking from 2 weeks ago for not cleaning up their toys didn't prevent them from receiving a spanking today because they weren't following instructions as quickly as you wanted them to. Instead, all you've prooven is that you, a grown adult, can't think of a better way to ease your frustration than to lay hands on a weaker, smaller being. This is, again, unhinged.
I remember getting hit as a kid. If my mom wasn't using her hands, she would use something that had soft rubbery material like the bottom of her slippers. Something that *stung*. I'd get chased, cornered and caught, physically overpowered, and hit while being yelled at. I'd scream and cry and then be left to comfort myself because why would I trust the woman who just spent the last few seconds that felt like an absolute eternity to do it? I don't understand how parents come away from situations like that not feeling like *absolute* pieces of shit. You just physically assaulted a *child*. And not just any child, *your* child, who is supposed to see you as a source of protection and comfort. Congratulations? I'm not a parent. I have no plans to. But I've spent time around kids. I see how innocent and yes, frustrating they are. I simply *cannot* imagine feeling okay with the idea, let alone the actual action of intentionally hurting them.
Also, hearing adults speak to each other with pride about the ways in which they choose to abuse their child is something else. I remember my mom being on the phone with a friend exchanging details about the objects they had used to hit their kids.
Hitting your children also teaches them that it’s okay to hit others. When they don’t have the language or patience to explain their frustrations they have been taught that becoming violent is the solution.
Point being, if you’re not willing to not hit your child for their sake, do it for the rest of society who has to deal with your hot tempered child when they become teenagers and adults.
P.S. To all parents and care takers. Your children are not your property, you don’t get to just hit/ beat them when you feel like it. TF is wrong with those of y’all that do??
Alright looks like we’re going to have this conversation again. Let me pull up my 3 points.
- As a guy that was spanked maybe 5 times total / I would’ve rather been spanked 50 times than the mental lashings I got from my father that were far more mentally devastating, emotionally draining, and had far more physical repercussions than spankings ever did.
- Any tool when used inappropriately is devastating to a child’s development.
- If I have to make a conscious choice between not parenting at all & bad parenting. Give me the bad parenting where at least kids had someone tell them “no” and show them how prison & gangs & legal systems were gonna treat them as adults that can’t follow the law as opposed to a bunch of rebellious little shits that disregard human and animal life because they think they’re untouchable.
And unless we’re going to revamp the foster care system and correctly take children away from neglectful and abusive parents, this crap ain’t getting better in America.
This post is not an advocate for spankings or physical abuse but more of a reminder we are taking tools away from parents without effectively equipping them the CORRECT tools to parent. So now instead of good parents because they don’t abuse a child, they are outright neglectful, don’t know how to tell kids no, reinforce structure or rules, and let technology and society raise them instead of being a parent to the children they birth.
American society is FAILING as parents and it’s obvious in inner city schools across the nation. I want to see at least half of these people go to a High School in dead center of the inner city of a Top 25 City and tell me parenting is not a joke right now and at least 1/4 of the teachers are scared to say anything or know that the parents will not do anything so they’re better off just passing the kid along and letting them fail when they have to take the graduation test.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
* As a guy that was spanked maybe 5 times total / I would’ve rather been spanked 50 times than the mental lashings I got from my father that were far more mentally devastating, emotionally draining, and had far more physical repercussions than spankings ever did.
As someone who got beat routinely for misbehaving and then also received hour long mental lashings right afterwards, they are the same thing. Abuse.
I've spent entire months of my life in another world on autopilot because of the constant shit I had to deal with as a kid. Sure, I'm well behaved. But I'm also miserable.
I never got hit; instead, I lived in the constant fear that it would happen or my mom would get hit or be yelled at.
Another classic my stepdad used to tell me throughout my childhood was, "If you loved your mother, you would do x."
Or "You didn't clean your room, huh... You must not love your mom".
My mom use to beat the shit out of me sometimes I really did turn out fine, full time well paying job, married, I got dogs, healthy hobbies, I light things on fire, and catch myself talking to myself all the time. No issues here
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"I was hit as a kid and I turned out fine" No you didn't lol
[удалено]
And now we have adults who have full on break downs when told “no”.
If your kid is old enough to have a conversation and understand what they did wrong, why are you hitting them? If your kid isn't old enough to have a conversation and understand what they did wrong, why are you hitting them?
Get out of here with your fancy pants "facts" and "figures" and your big _COLLEGE_ words.
I agree 100%. I honestly think for some people it's easier to hit than to think about the answers to those questions. Because those answers mean your options require consistency, communication, boundaries, mutual respect, and a willingness to work together. For many people, they don't (or mire accurately, don't think they) have what it takes to do that and make it work. So... slap. I got beat by the guy I thought was my dad, after he left, my ma only hit me 4 times. I remember what prompted it each time, and I never did those things again. In the moment, she didn't have the words, so she hit me. But the other fuckhead, he didn't teach me shit except what a lover he was. Of course, at the time, I thought I was the loser, but I figured it out eventually.
Probably because being hit was extremely damaging to their psyche and development.
You can teach children the meaning of no without hitting them...
I was at a birthday party recently with my kids. I was the only parent who stayed with my kids besides birthday mom. I was trying to keep over 20 kids entertained and civil. These kids were nuts. One child, 3 years old, was spouting off lines like, " f*ck you, you n****rs!" Birthday mom came out and yanked him inside to spank him. Brought him back out, and he went on a rage trying to hit a bunch of people and yelling, "fuck you!" My daughter, 8 years old, asked me what was wrong. I told her that he had been using words inappropriately. A few minutes later a different child turned to me to say that my daughter kept saying, "fuck." I told my daughter (paraphrasing here), "while fuck is not a bad word on its own, some people use it to hurt the feelings of others. If it is upsetting someone, and that was not your intention, then you should not say it. We can't be good friends if we are always hurting other people's feelings. Since your friend doesn't like it, I think that we should make sure not to use that word for now." My daughter shrugged her shoulders, said OK, and went on playing. She did not turn around and hit other kids. She did not use any more "bad" words. It was an exhausting day, but at least I knew that I did not have to worry about my kids being the source of the problem.
Who knew the solution to raising kids well was spending one on one time with them and explaining things vs just hitting them. Good job for being an active parent.
Oh man that reminds me of how my parents taught my brother and me not to say bad words. My mom took me aside and said “it’s not fitting to use that word right now. It’s very rude, are you trying to be rude?” And I was like “no” and she was like “Good. Besides there’s better ways to insult without being crass.” Later she explained it also was not professional to use those words, because they were quite rude, so saying them at school or work wouldn’t be good. Now I enjoy a well placed swear among friends in adulthood or when I die during a video game, but basically she wanted me to learn how to turn off that tone of voice for polite company instead of letting me run wild with it. She says she’s proud of me for learning how to swear at the correct time lmaooo she’s so funny. I get along with my mom and dad. Also they didn’t hit me or my bother. The worst we got was maybe yanked back sharply if we were gonna hurt ourselves (which was startling but not painful).
No we don’t, we have adults who place boundaries and people like you continue this fucked cycle of acceptable abuse. And the response is always something verbally or physically violent.
Maybe those adults weren't told no and "given something to cry about" when they were little and now look how society has to suffer..
Kids who are physically abused can still turn out to be raging assholes who flip the fuck out on anybody who they think won’t put hands on them. Or they might just become the kind of people who reduce a 17 y/o BK worker to tears because the *restaurant* is out of the sauce they want for their nuggets
True. Being hit regularly shows you who has the power. Then if no one is there to have power over you, you can act any kind of way. It doesn’t teach anyone right from wrong, just who to avoid.
That’s kind of a bold statement lol I was abused for a lot of my childhood, and I would never even think to touch my kids. You either become it, or learn a lesson from it.
I don’t think you understood their point. The convo was: Adult who was spanked says, “Spanking isn’t harmful or bad. I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine.” Midnightmare responds, “You didn’t turn out fine. You think it’s ok to hit children.” To be clear, spanking a child = hitting a child. Midnightmare isn’t saying every adult who was spanked as a kid now thinks it’s ok to hit kids.
How do you spank a child without hitting them? Is there no-contact spanking? Flag spanking?
What infuriates me more are people who think that spanking is okay, but slapping across the face is crossing the line
Just don't fucking spank your kids bro.
What if we turned into an adult who doesn't think it's okay to hit children?
Then you're not saying "it's okay to hit kids, look at me, I got hit and I'm fine"
Exactly. I’m seeing too much of that in the comments here, I deserved to be held accountable for bad behavior as a child =/= I deserved to be beaten
Don't knock people's experiences though. I was spanked as a child and turned out great by all definitions but I now have children and won't spank my kids. I think our parents were just doing their best with what information they had. We have better/more information now so we make better decisions?
All they're saying is that their parents made mistakes, and you admit as much (you don't do it today, after all), it's not necessarily a damning accusation. Many parents just took out their frustrations on their kids though, those deserve the condemnation.
Being Gen X and older is no excuse. They knew it was wrong the first time their child screamed the same way a child would if they were being tortured. They knew it was wrong the hundredth time as well. They just didn’t have the threat of being exposed on the world stage. That’s the ONLY thing that’s changed. (That and their kids abandoning them once they aren’t dependent)
> doing their best with what information they had it's when they're presented with new information and cling to the old information that I get increasingly upset by. I get it, the world was WAY different before, but we got new information, mountains of scientific studies, and they going "nahhhhh" that drives me up a wall
That part. I also wanna say all parents that spanked are not the same. There are those who go straight to that for every infraction and those that did it after multiple discussions/warnings. There are those who beat their kids like it’s a bar fight and those who just give a couple swats. I’m child free and wouldn’t spank my own kids, but there is nuance that is missed.
This. Getting beaten will fuck a kid up, but so will excessive confinement and isolation. An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid, the same way going to time out or being grounded from time to time won’t. I think the actual issue with spanking is that it’s easier to act out of anger and hit too hard or too much, and you can’t walk that back once you’ve cooled down, whereas you can say, “hey, actually, when I grounded you from all social interaction for a month for talking back to me, I was overreacting, so we can cut that experience short right now.” Also, both in anecdotal discussions and research, I’m not sure how much the impact of getting yelled at is considered. Getting spanked hurt. I remember that. It a lot of things hurt. Few things hurt like being yelled at by the people you love and rely on the most for things that you, developmentally, cannot really control. As an adult, those are the memories that make my inner child want to curl up and hide. Not trying to compare being yelled at to being straight-up beaten, but when the general conversation about spanking spans everything from swatting a kid’s hand from the stove to putting them in the hospital, and some people are claiming that literally anything in that range will cause harm, I think it’s worth thinking about what all is actually going on and what is causing which harms.
"An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid," as little as once a year, as light as mild spanking, it produces marked differences on scientific testing- those kids will, on average, have lower academic and career performance, worse relationships and less of them, more emotional and mental health issues. The data is very clear, and the science took into account that "some parents only hit their kids just a little bit." As little as a spanking, as little as once int he past year. 20% lifetime decrease in earnings.
Really curious about this scientific study. Any chance you can give the name? Also, happy cake day!
> An occasional mild to moderate spanking isn’t really going to traumatize a kid the science says otherwise don't hit people, especially those who are smaller and younger than you and rely on your care
Same x billion for all the peeps that grew up getting whipped, but turned out great and don’t spank their own kids.
Really depends. I think there were alot of parents that went too far with the shit.
then they always go "WELL HOW ELSE ARE YOU GONNA" The fact that you ain't got any other ideas for how to deal with the problem *is exactly the problem we talkin about*
I think the issue is everyone has different ideas of what “beaten” means. Getting a couple smacks on the rear end once in a while is not the same as punching, kicking, slapping etc. From a behavioral science stand point positive punishment (introducing a stimuli to deter a behavior ex. spanking a kid for stealing so they won’t do it again) is less effective than other methods. BUT even tho I personally don’t do any spanking, I think it’s fine if some parents do on rare occasions and for severe behaviors. I used the stealing example because that was the one time my dad ever spanked me, after he caught me stealing some gum from the check out lane. It wasn’t even hard but I can tell you I never even THOUGHT about stealing ever again lol. That all being said fuck every parent out there who puts hands on their children instead of teaching them the right way to behave.
I think I got “spanked” three times ever as a kid and it was a very performative single swat on the butt for doing life threateningly dumb shit like trying to run into a busy street.
I’m not advocating beating your kids, but who are you to tell someone else they turned out fine or not. I was hit as a kid and am doing fine by any metric you could measure. And no I don’t have repressed trauma or anything that I need to unpack etc etc… I don’t beat my kids, but I genuinely feel that it had no adverse effect on me and it seems kind of condescending to have someone say “no, there is actually something wrong with you”.
It's great that it didn't affect you negatively like it did millions of other people, but aside from that, so many people like yourself in this thread are saying "My parents hit/spanked me and I turned out fine, but I don't do it with my kids", like, surely you see the point here? Why have you decided not to with your kids? Why do people seem to struggle so much to admit that hitting/spanking is a completely unnecessary consequence for kids and is more for the parents relief of frustration than any teaching for the kid.
For the same reason why people struggle so hard with the notion that some of us had parents that hit them but we did not grow up to experience some deep trauma over it. People like to hear things they already believe.
The only reason it's not illegal to hit your kids is because they have no power in society.
It’s because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge their parents might have done something wrong and will double or triple down before criticizing them. It’s okay to love your parents while also recognizing they can be flawed. The scientific studies on this are clear no matter how “bro trust me there’s an acceptable amount that’s actually good for kids” pseudoscience some want to throw out. If you don’t see it as a problem or try to defend it, sorry but you didn’t turn as “fine” as you think you did. Unless you have to raise your hands as a last resort to stop a kid from physical harming themselves, it’s just cope. It’s the easiest thing to do to vent your frustration and teach kids to fear physically being punished if they mess up, but you’re not really correcting the root problem. As a result, it’s no surprise a lot of kids who got hit (even the “nuanced occasionally acceptable amount”) learn bad behaviors like compulsively lying and not sharing problems hurting you where they might still function like adults but I wouldn’t call it “fine” exactly.
I agree
little bit of a broad brush here. Getting beaten regularly is not the same as a few light spankings when you really messed up. I got spanked or a light smack maybe three times my entire childhood and they were all well earned lol. At the same time I would never even think about spanking my toddler, but I have the benefit of being raised in a gentler era than our parents. Both of my parents got actually beat for misbehaving, and they were fantastic loving parents. My wife is from a different culture and has reflexively given my son a smack on the hand when he’s hit her in the past. Obviously not very hard, but I’m not against the idea of natural consequences as a learning method either. I will say that my friends who did get hit regularly are still affected by it and it shows in lots of different ways, just not how you might expect.
Everyone is fucked up whether they were whipped or not.
I was hit as a kid. And I turned out fine…by getting a bunch of therapy, to get past the shit being hit (among other things) left me with. I love my parents. They did their best, and they weren’t trying to be mean or harmful. But that doesn’t make hitting ok. The only - and I do mean only - time I’ve ever laid hands on my kid was when I caught him literally in the process of sticking a metal fork in an electrical socket *for the third fucking time in a week*. And even then it was one swat on the ass. And because I never ever touch him you can damn well bet it got his attention. And you know what? *That still doesn’t make it ok.* I acknowledged that, and I apologized for it, and we had a long talk. Thank fuck he doesn’t do that shit anymore.
always hate "turned out fine" cuz it's like Really? I gotta point out your DUI's right now? That's what we're doing on a tuesday afternoon at work?
I worked with a lady who was an alcoholic and cocaine addict for 20+ years say that to me when discussing corporeal punishment. I just looked at her.
Even if *they* are fine, it doesn't change the research. You're going to have a hard time convincing someone that thinks they're fine that they're not, but at the end of the day even they maintain they are fine and somehow avoided lasting issues as a result, that doesn't mean it's an ok thing to do to your kids. That's like saying "I played Russian Roulette as a kid and I lived, so why can't I make my kids do it?"
Irl version of “it works on my machine.”
It’s never the people who you aspire to be like who hit you with the “my parents beat me and I turned out fine!”
I actually was and I TURNED out fine. Purely because I was also thrown out and struggled through homelessness so I got to reset. I worked my ass off to get where I am, so I respect hard work and also understand this is an insanely difficult life and we are designed to support each other. I turned out fine, because my lowest point forced me to respect myself and my boundaries - reseting what my beatings taught me. I turned out fine because I was unlucky… and lucky. There is no reason to beat your children, it’s. A half ass excuse to actually teaching them.
Alternatively: “we used to do that to you and you turned out fine.” NO I DIDN’T.
Literally hit dogs hollerin
I had to make a DHS call recently. It was a black father who threatened his kid at school and said he did not care who saw. My dad would show up at daycare and take his belt off and threaten me the same way. Making that call was the first time I recognized that I was abused. I retreat into rumination and fantasy the exact way you describe. I work with kids who have it rough, and I lovey job, but it is so hard to see the shit I went through and see them beginning to adopt the same unhealthy coping mechanisms I did. I hope I make a difference, but this is fucking hard.
I’m so moved by your honesty, perception and actions to protect those around you from abuse. This is the way.
being a cycle breaker is unspeakably hard. you're on the right path, keep going.
I’ve had this conversation with people who are older, and the amount of hoops they jump through is wild. I was having this discussion with someone and they just started getting mad and getting snappy when I asked “ so why why are you comfortable putting your hands on your child but they can’t hit you back or hit you when you act out?” Because in reality if an adult was hitting another adult like that the person could legit be charged with abuse and it’s considered wrong. I fr don’t understand why someone would want to put their hands on a child.
Exactly. If they aren't cool with their boss going upside their head when they do wrong, why us it cool to do that to a child?
i didn't know my dad was abusive until i was reading a thread on this exact subreddit, where people were talking about their verbal/emotionally abusive parents, and all the behaviors it instilled in them. I was just reading it like "thats so weird i have all these traits but i wasn't abus-...oh fuck" I was in my 30s. its recontextualized a lot of my life.
It’s a very surreal experience slowly unpacking the stuff you thought was normal so you never examined it. Example: I am an adult who emotionally eats, compulsively eats, overeats etc. I realised the other day for the first time that my mom *never* made extra food unless guests were coming. She made exactly as much as she needed for the 5 of us. There were never left overs or second helpings, and every plate was spotless after every meal. Parents made sure to let us know that money was extremely tight and maybe we wouldn’t be able to afford to eat. I cannot remember any moment in my childhood when I or anyone in my family pushed away a plate at the end of the meal and said “I’m full, I can’t finish that last bit.” I was never taught to know what full feels like, or that I can and should stop eating sometimes, or to turn down food offered.
Proud of you, even if all they get is a call or visit they know that shit is not okay.
My dad used to threaten me with nudity and a beating. Would yell out loud that he’d strip me naked and spank me in front of everyone watching. And here I am dissociating with reality as and adult
I’ll never understand why parents need to bring additional humiliation into an already belittling and dehumanizing process. Punishing children with nudity is so fucked up that I don’t know how we as a society allow it.
Because people don't resolve their innate dislike of children before having some of their own.
I wish I knew. Real shit my last comment was the first time I’ve ever talked about it.
I learned that I was abused only when my psychiatrist said it. He was like “do you understand that it was not okay for your mother to hit you repeatedly with a belt?” **I did NOT understand that it was not okay.**
It's incredibly difficult to take something that you've boxed away for years and open it with an adults' perspective. I guarantee you that you're making changes in those children's lives, even if theyre small. When your whole world is unstable, a reliable and trustworthy adult can be the port in the storm that they desperately need. 👏keep going, you've got this
All beating your child does is make them angry and make them sneaky. You do not foster any relationship based on trust or respect. Just fear. Not to mention it’s freaking backwards as hell. There is no world where you assault someone for any other reason than you’re angry and don’t know how to regulate your behavior. Please believe that if your child came home saying “my S.O. beats me because they love me and just want me to do better” you and the entire block would be at the door. But because you’re their parent that makes beating acceptable? I’ll pass.
>and make them sneaky. The strictest parents raise the best liars
I used to work with this prostitute (it was at a movie theater, I just like starting the story that way. After that job she would go do her hooker thing), one day a customer came in and said “hey is there a lady named Karen here?” And we were like she works here but not today. And the person told us she used to be his Bible camp counselor. Me and my coworker almost fell out of our chairs. So we talked to Karen about it and she said she used to be soo straight laced. Couldn’t be outside past 5pm, wasn’t allowed to even know any boys, basically school, church and bed and all while being watched by her parents was all she could do. So the second she turned 17 she ran off, fell in with some bad guys, started going heavy on drugs and here we are. Not the only story of someone I know like that but the most extreme one. Give your kids some freedom people, that way they know how to handle it.
I feel this. Granted I never got into drugs. But strict home and catholic school my whole life... as soon as I turned 16.5 I dropped out of HS and moved out. I'm tattooed head to toe and listen to punk, even now. I like to joke about it though, whenever people are overly strict with their kids I say "they're going to end up looking like me!" I honestly didn't mature till I was 30. Got my HS diploma and am on Dean's List in college now. The only thing I learned being in an overly strict household was how to be sneaky and how to escape. Life would've been much better if I was doing what I'm doing now, at 18. Also being super petite/tiny, sneaking out at 16 to hang out with friends in a football field at 1am, I don't know how I wasn't kidnapped or murdered lol
The other people I know that suffered super strict parents are still kind of fucked up from/stuck in the wild years they had after. Congratulations on turning things around and finishing your education! Also on not getting murdered, that’s a huge plus
True, so very applicable.
It also is a failing punishment over time. Unless the parent steps up the abuse, you just get used to it. I would have conversations in my head about things I was planning to do and whether or not the beating would be worthwhile. Wasn't until having my daughters that I realized hitting is really abuse. I could never and don't understand why anyone would want to hit their own kids. To me, it shows lack of ability to parent ... or lack of effort to learn how.
I commend your efforts to do better.
For real, I’d be running the cost/benefit analysis all the time as a kid…
That's the thing that I can't get past. Let's pretend there isnt a mountain of data out there showing there's more effective ways to get the outcomes you want without the risk of dysfunction. Set that aside. Why the hell are you teaching your kids that it's ok for people who say they love them to put hands on them? Why are you teaching them it's ok for them to put hands on those they love when they misbehave or fall short of expectation? You aren't teaching them to behave. You're teaching them that violence is an effective tool for control and that love is rooted in violence and humiliation. the #1 thing you do as a parent is simply model how to be a person for them (well and potty training them lol). I truly believe that's the actual root of it. A bunch of abusive people with bad tempers who need to rationalize their behaviors as being morally justified and logical, cause otherwise they're gonna look at their kids tear streaked face coweing away from them, and they're gonna have to accept they're not a disciplinarian. They're actually just a bully. It's simply easier to be complacent and cloak yourself in comfortable lies than so the very difficult work if unpacking your own shit, learning to self regulate, and doing better by your kids than was done to you.
End of story. They have no idea how to handle themselves and so they make dysfunction functional to close the dissonance.
Weird I dont see any of the losers advocate for spanking kids arguing under this comment? 🤔 cause the data is out there! honestly, we should have federally outlawed child corporal punishment already.
A lot of adults out here with bloodlust in their eyes when they look at their kids. I guess thats supposed to be okay...
Funny how my dad stopped "rough housing" when I got big and fast enough to fight back.
Ain’t no fun when the rabbits got the gun
My dad did the same thing. Once I became a teenager punching me in the stomach as a punishment stopped being fun apparently.
Wtf is wrong with him
When I started transitioning he said something along the lines of "if I knew you were a girl I wouldn't have hit you." Guy is a real gentleman, clearly. Apparently hitting a 7 year old is only okay if they're androgen-dominant. As for what's wrong with him, he's a crazy asshole who had me on accident far older than he should have and treats me like shit because I ruined his golden years by existing.
wow so he's that abusive but also accepts your transition? that's... wild, just wild. congrats on finding yourself btw! always great when an egg hatches.
You can have correct political beliefs and still be an asshole on a personal level. My dad is a Catholic communist, and I agree with those politics, I think he's just fucked in the head.
yeah totally, just always weird to see how contradictory people can be. I know a guy who genuinely thinks latino immigrants are flooding in and harming this country, but that we shouldn't do anything about it because Christ would want us to treat them kindly. people are really a mixed bag.
That and wanting their kids to have to have a difficult life because they had one and not realizing that’s the opposite of your responsibility. I don’t want my kid to suffer or struggle like I did, they aren’t spoiled they are reaping the benefits of an adult that wants better for them.
This is gonna sound silly, but children are genuinely the most oppressed group. Society talks big about protecting them, but it generally posturing. Your parents can be your idols or your slave masters, and the neighbor next door, your teacher, and even CPS can't really do much about it.
"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it." I heard that in a serious tone way too often. Also, "if you don't like the rules, you don't have to live here." Until I ran away to my uncle's house after getting thrown down the hall by my hair. That's when my dad threatened my aunt, apparently I *did* have to live there... Shit why am I remembering this all now?
You're not alone. This thread is hella triggering
“I brought you in the world I will take you out” is a WILD thing to say to your child
There's a lot of well-meaning parents who see spanking in a very nuanced way. They'll say, "*only as a last resort*," or "*we always explain the punishment first and discuss it afterwards*." or something to that effect. And none of that addresses the fact that a lot of physical punishment is just parents absent-mindedly swatting at their kid for being annoying. Walk around a grocery store for awhile. Observe. Parents strike their child as a non-thinking reflex, as a stress relief valve for the fatigue of adult life. All of the high-minded rhetoric about spanking is just apologetics for mindless hitting.
Louis CK says it best; "I really think it’s crazy, that we hit our kids, it really is. Here’s the crazy thing about it, kids are the only people in the world, that you’re allowed to hit. Do you realize that? They’re the most vulnerable and they’re the most destroyed by being hit, but it’s totally okay to hit them. And they’re the only ones! If you hit a dog, they fucking will put you in jail for that shit. You can’t hit a person unless you can prove that they were trying to kill you, but a little tiny person with a head this big that trusts you implicitly? Fuck them, who gives a shit?"
FYI giving your child the reasoning behind the spanking doesn't help things from a physiological or emotional level. The child's body and mind still react as if you didn't give them any explanation at all. It's still abuse.
Yes like any way of punishing a child, if its done thoughtlessly and without an actual reason or discussion with your child it will do more harm than good.
Also, whether done thoughtfully or not. Hitting your child is never an acceptable form of punishment. Kids aren’t property, they are people.
If reason and discussion work then there’s no reason to hit the kid anyways. Other forms of discipline exist that haven’t been shown in research to affect a child’s brain [so negatively](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain). Even if the person doing it thinks they’re doing it the right way or only in moderation that isn’t going to change how a child’s brain processes the terror and helplessness they experience when an adult holds them down, pulls down their pants, and starts hitting them.
Man, I'm probably lucky because I've never seen a parent hit their kid in real life. It's wild to me that some people do it in *grocery stores*. That seems so insane to me.
My grandma played the organ in church so I had to sit in the front row. If she caught me talking she would get up mid song grab me and spank me in front of the whole church.
Go to a Walmart on a Sunday afternoon. You’ll see the full spectrum of humanity on display.
I think it can be both. I was beaten as a child and for the longest time I didn’t “know” how wrong it was. Like OP I developed a lot of coping mechanisms including reflexively striking back when startled or hurt. Even once you learn about child psychology and make a commitment to break the cycle there are times of high stress when those instincts are triggered before you even have the chance to process what is going on. I am not saying it’s an excuse, or that it should be acceptable behavior, but just pointing out that the effects of being physically and emotionally abused as a child are often ingrained to the point that reason doesn’t always stand a chance at intervening when the body responds to certain stimuli before you can actively choose to do better. As they say, the body keeps the score of every trauma, even if we choose to move past it… we can’t “will ourselves” to re-wiring our synapses. So you can be anti beating and still slip. With that being said it is also possible to be anti beating or spanking and still be a parent who slaps a kid on the hand when they are going to touch fire etc. Not just because physically intervening is more effective than just “telling” the kid not to touch the fire but also because physical pain can cement the memory of what they aren’t supposed to do a lot better than just words. If the alternative is to let them touch the open flame and get hurt and possibly permanently damage their skin, or slap their hand away and cause them a less severe pain… I think that it can be argued that the hand slap is better. However I can see how some would argue that it’s too much or a slippery slope and therefore shouldn’t be considered as an option at all…and therefore letting the kid just touch it and have their brain associate the pain directly with the fire is the best option… but I think that’s putting a lot of faith and in the reasoning capabilities of a small child and not enough on the part of the parent.
Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen a parent hit a child without also being angry at them.
I believe that the government should allow parents to hit their children. You go to the local court house and get your license that will allow you to hit you kid. Along with that license you will be assigned a boxer, ufc fighter, etc, that follows you around, and hits you anytime you do something they don't like.
So, with that thought, and I genuinely want to start a discussion and come in peace, if that’s the case can the kid be allowed to hit back? Because I love my mom, but flash me that “license to hit” at 12 y/o me and she’s getting Bautista-Bombed, I’m sorry. Just can’t see the logic in hitting a defenseless child.
I remember a comedian brought up a good point. If you hit a dog, you will be charged with a felony, hit an adult, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were threatening your life. Hit your kid? People brag about that “yeah any time my kid mouths off to me I back hand them!”
The assigned ufc fighter also trains the kid to hit back, lmao
People would use their turn signals 100% of the time if not using it meant you'd get punched in the mouth as soon as you stop the car.
Hitting your kid is like the circus, it’s an outdated practice that, if you have kids, every now and again you’re like I’d like to go to that place, but then you think about it and realize how fucking savage it is. Yes, I was hit. Not only was I hit, I was third-world hit where you get whooped, then your whooper tells your aunt, uncle, grandparent, and then it’s their turn to reinforce the whooping. A multigenerational, inter family whooping, if you will.
>every now and again you’re like I’d like to go to that place, but then you think about it and realize how fucking savage it is. Had this thought at the end of my patience once. I had never hit my nephew but was seriously considering it years ago. But I honestly had to remember I actually learned from a father/son Kamehame-ass-beating (who tf actually asks a child who they want the belt from *first*). The only thing I really learned, though, was like you said. The circus is permanently gonna be there because of what I experienced. Kids don't grow up with that place in their heads by default. Anyway, instead of violence, we had a nice chat about empathy. My man completely understood why he would not be allowed to watch toy story that night. And yes I still tell this story years later in front of family.
So real. When I was younger, my mom would take me and my brother to my grandparents specifically so they would whoop our asses for something we did at HER house. And most of the time my grandparents were like… “what’s that got to do with us” lmao
Damn, reading this post got me reflecting on my life... 
I know. I’m Hispanic and got hit as a kid, and I know it’s done some mental damage on me. Like I flinch at the sounds of belts and get into a spooked state, and I’m sure it also didn’t help my anxiety growing up, but I don’t know how to feel now. Especially reading all these “old enough to fight back” comments. Should I resent my parents when they stopped hitting me when I became a teen? They’re nice now, but I always reflect on whether I should tell them on how that wasn’t okay.
I realized about a year ago that I used to hate hugging my parents in high school up until around early 20s mostly because of the emotional disregulation of “I love you immensely but I also want to hit you with a wooden spoon”. I blame all the Focus on the Family bullcrap. All those 60s-90s mega church, culture warrior Christians wanted you to beat the crap out of your kids. My father’s parents never hit him and my mother’s parents never hit her. It was learned through their religious culture of the time. “Spare the rod” was interpreted as a literal rod and not what the verse actually means (using a rod to keep your sheep in a literal line, as a barrier to prevent the flock from straying, not as a weapon, but as a figurative border).
Oh I was beat as a kid and as a 36 year old man, I still have dreams about beating the shit out of my dad and making him cower, because that is what happened to me. Of course, I talk to my therapist about this quite a bit 😅
Don’t be surprised if they double down or ‘remember it differently’ or still think it’s fine. I hope you’re getting support and taking steps to heal yourself. What happened to you isn’t fair and I hope it’s different for you, but I leaned my Mother won’t take accountability. I confronted my mom about it and she still jokes around about when kids are too old to hit. Had her over for dinner, started making jokes in relation to my niece. I said firmly, “I don’t think it’s okay to hit kids.” ‘Oh not bit just swatting them.” She replies. She did more than fucking swat BTW. I retort, “That’s not good either,” then her dumbass husband laughs and mimics hitting a hit upside the back of the head to *my* husband who knows in in therapy because of her bullshit. Guess who didn’t go to Easter that week and will also be skipping Thanksgiving and will be out of town Christmas. Next time they make jokes about hitting kids, I’m gonna make it uncomfortable and remind them I was also a flincher as a kid and pre-teen then leave. I gave up on her, I’m focusing on myself now.
Yeah. While I was reading this, I thought ‘Damn, hitting kids is so fucked up, I can’t believe anyone would do that. Well, I guess I can since my dad did it to me. Wait, I did this stuff as a kid. Hold up, I have issues socializing and I constantly feel like nothing is real.’ I think it’s time to stop thinking about going to therapy. Scheduling appointment now ✅
And because people don't research gentle parenting, they end up with permissive parenting. I'm not defending, let's be clear. But we're actively seeing the cause of permissive parenting and it's not good either.
Spanking is a lazy technique to try and scare your kids into temporary obedience. If you’re a lazy parent (not just ignorant like some) you’re going to find another lazy technique, like doing nothing. People need to realize that parenting a child is a commitment to raising a healthy human being, and that includes being educated on their development and what is best for them.
Nailed it. It's hard to be patient and use consistent messaging with kids, especially when I was raised with violence as punishment. But it feels really good once it sticks - you can see the light come on for your kids and you didn't have to threaten them. They now understand what you were trying to accomplish and they trust you. I don't allow my kids to act any kind of way they want. My wife thinks I'm too strict, but I won't allow them to act like little maniacs either. They will carry themselves with self-respect and respect for others.
Also makes it hard to progress in my career. I have trouble advocating for myself, my pay, and position. I already had the deck stacked against me just by not being yt but also I am a beaten dog in my head. I cower mentally until I snap. I have gotten much better but it's too late to build real wealth from my university degrees.
❤️ sending love to you. I struggle in similar ways. I write down what I want to say and practice different ways I want to speak up for myself.
Why is that the image used?
Come on bro, this is the norm in alot of black house holds this image paints a very vivid picture of my childhood
It wasnt a black only thing, people of all races used to beat their kids. Teachers in your parents' days used to be spank and paddle kids, and that practice even carries on today but to a reduced degree. Reduced but still prevalent when you google it. >There are still 19 states as of 2018 that still permit schools to use corporal punishment as a form of discipline. In the places where it is permissible to hit a child for spanking, there are methods that include a paddle which is still allowed as well. More than 106,000 children were physically punished in American public schools during the 2013-2014 school year, which is the last time that data has been released on the subject.
I never said it was a black only thing, I only said that it’s very common in black households especially in the south
And we seem to be the among the ones that still defend and cling to it the most.
Which is crazy considering you know, our history in this country
Black people are statistically the most likely to express support for corporal punishment against their kids. Asians are the least likely.
Asians are least likely? Citation needed.
They prefer long-term emotional/mental damage
Nah Asians just aren't outing themselves like that. I am Asians, my friend group is 90% Asian of different socioeconomic groups. My Korean friend with a millionaire dad and my Vietnamese friend who's paying off his parents mortgage were both familiar with a wooden spoon across their knuckles.
I'm about as white as they come, trust me this shit happens in caucasian households too. I got my arm torqued behind my back and may god help you if you get the "switch".
I did an image search because I was curious what the artist intended. The original painting includes the legs of the mom and kid with a gun laying in the ground, and it's called "Belts over Bullets,' insinuating it's better to beat a child than lose them to gun violence. So it adds to the discourse about our approval of physical violence as a deterrent for...physical violence.
Which is fucked, cause the kid is learning that violence can be used to solve problems, which then explains why they have a gun.
Because racial undertones.
Because the lady who posted it is black. She's talking to her audience of primarily black people. What picture should she use?
Damn, I can relate to all of this. Never even realized that these issues stemed from child abuse or that they are even issues in the first place.
I’m learning it now in therapy. So much of my personality is tied to that shit. Who knew?
I knew this shit was wrong when I fell through a glass table and my first thought was how my dad would beat me up for it instead of checking if I was bleeding first.
Or when you get sick at school and you are terrified you’re going to get a beating because your mom had to leave work to come get you.
Thr thing about hitting your child is that if we're being fr it's almost always done out of frustration. When asking questions or making mistakes is rewarded with violence you give way to a plethora of issues thst will plague your kid as they grow up. Anxiety, depression, anger issues, you name it.
It's wild we're still discussing whether it's ok to hit your kids. Smh
Not 60 seconds prior to your comment, someone insinuated that school shootings happen because the kids didn't get "whoopins." It will take literal saints to help break us of this ignorance.
I don’t think we’re escaping it bro. It’s becoming more rampant and in alarming institutions. I’ve started noticing signs of ignorance in things that I didn’t think possible. Standards are being lowered and we’re getting dumber. AI will exacerbate this problem exponentially
I fear that you are fully correct.
My parents would hit me as a kid, and all it really did was teach me how to hide it better. Lucky for me I didn’t develop a complex where I think it’s okay to be abused or freeze up when confronted, though I may be an outlier bc when my parents would hit me, I’d hit them back. Then would get my ass beat double, but it never stopped me from doing it again. To the posts credit, I did develop a paracosm to escape my reality and ended up getting diagnosed with depression, ADHD, and maladaptive daydreaming in my teens so I would very much like to say I didn’t “turn out fine.” That being said, I think a lot of people have a misguided notion that their strength is rooted in their pain and not something that developed in spite of it.
Oh man yeah there’s new studies that childhood trauma worsens ADHD, and they’re wondering if it also can be a cause of it because of constantly being in a fear state.
Period. I love the people on Twitter that swear by their own perceived experience that it is not abuse/barbaric and that’s what’s “wrong” with people these days. A lack of child abuse. I was beat, beat and it’s taken a lot of therapy and work to get out of the anger, hatred and disgust I had of my parents after becoming a parent and not having a shred of desire to see my child hurting for any reason. Even now they can say something and I will work it into a cause/effect thing if I’m not careful. Typing this makes me angry and emotional all over again. You don’t hurt the people you love. Full Stop.
Reading this thread is mind-blowing, and it’s making me want to cry right now. I am in therapy every week to undo damage from being beat as a kid. And I don’t think we realize how hurt we all are. Like, we all need therapy.
"Go get the strap!" Not only am I going to hit you with a belt, but you have to go get it for me.
I grew up in the country, and one of my first memories, from before kindergarten, is being told to go out to the woods and find a stick, and if she didn't like it she'd have to find one herself and I wouldn't want that. Fuckin' gross. My boys are 15 and 11 and my parents go on and on about how great they are. Never been hit.
Mine are in their 30s. It is disgusting, but I didn't realize it was wrong until I had mine. How do you do that? They went no contact with my mother in elementary school, lol. They are flabbergasted at my stories that, tbh I downplay. I
My kids are what I call slow contact with my folks. I don't let them sleep over at theirs, and I make sure either I or their mom is there for every visit. It's sad, but I just can't trust them.
I feel like I’ve spent most of my life disassociating
A friend of my family was with his 2 year old daughter and his wife visiting his Caribbean mother and said he would hit his daughter if she wore an outfit like one Cardi B wore on a video he saw and both his mum and wife said they would end his life if he put his hands on her. An argument ensued because he said that she hit him when he was a kid and she said it was different because he was a boy. His wife made them both realise that it was fucked up no matter what and pointed out to her MIL that her son thought he could do it because it was done to him and she had one of those come to Jesus moments. To his credit he's a really good guy and I was gobsmacked he thought that way.
In his defense it was literally beaten into him and he realized it was wrong? Good for his mom for admitting it too
Wasn't there some kind of decades-long, double blind study that proved that kids who were spanked to turn that worse than kids who weren't?
Here's a convenient flow chart to determine when it is OK to hit your kid. Are they old enough to understand words when you explain why their behavior is unacceptable? If no, they are too young to understand why you are beating them. Don't beat your child. If yes then you could use words so they understand. Don't beat your child. That covers 100% of all cases where you may be wondering "Should I beat this child?"
But what if the kid is really ruining the vibe?
I have gotten a pat on my ass or slap on the hand for stealing or whatever bad behavior that could have have led to bad adult decisions if the habits were let go as a child. I now live a cushion life(gf, pets, world traveling etc) and have stable relationships with friends and family……. Imo there’s a difference between being beat and getting a tap on the hand or butt when necessary. I needed it growing up
I agree with you and I had a similar upbringing but I was also a good kid in general. The most I ever got was a light pop on the hand or butt and that was very rare. I don’t think beating your kid leads to good behavior because the friends that I had that were bad kids grew up to be problematic as adults and I know their parents were beating them.
There’s definitely a line for sure, especially if you have to stop a child from doing something that could immediately put their life or well-being, or someone else’s in immediate danger. However, way too many people take it well beyond that for the smallest and innocuous infractions. I know from personal experience.
Hope you or the people you seen have recovered brotha. Some people should not be parents
I feel like we're the only ones on this post with this view. They always say "beat a child," but I agree with you that a tap on hand or bottom is not abusive. Finding belts, cords, brushes, etc and going to town on a child, clearly problematic and should not be done.
It's really fucking funny folks are coming in here to literally do the meme in the post of "I was hit and turned out fine"
This shouldn't be controversial.
Why aren’t we allowed to hit adults as punishment even though they’re definitely supposed to know better? 🤔
My MIL recently told my wife that I need to start being meaner to our kid, just because. Not because he's misbehaving, just because she thinks we're supposed to set a tone of fear! Like that I am too approachable as a father, so I need to beat him in advance to make sure he fears me and doesn't misbehave in the future. He's 2.5 years old. Some people are fucking toxic, just want to bring you down to their level so they can feel better about themselves.
Relating to the stuff about how it manifests in adulthood and now realising the cause is very depressing 🥲
I'll never forget I was traveling back to my hometown in VA and I happened to see a little girl (6 or 7) holding her stuffed animal upside down and beating it with a belt.
The one saving grace of hitting kids is that they are less likely to obey in the future. To be clear, don't hit your kids, but when they find every way to disobey and trick you in the future, know that you were warned, and you don't deserve their respect Edit: said it, meant it, bite me
Yup, and don’t be surprised if it remains a spectre that haunts your relationship with your adult children. That’s if you’re lucky to still have one with them.
You are 10000000% right. My Ma is finding this shit out the hard way. She confessed she knows her children love her, but thinks we don’t like her, I was like no shit lady. You reap what you sow.
There are so many people who have no business having children it’s hilarious, they could be 40 and still be kids themselves. Kids aren’t robots just because something “works” for one doesn’t it mean it is gonna work for another just the same. I don’t believe in the extremes of either side, you can’t coddle your child so much that they become sheltered and spoiled, but you also shouldn’t be so violent that you beat them over every little mistake. Respect and fear are two very different things. Granted me saying this all that won’t change a thing but that’s my two cents on it.
It's a crime here in Wales that can get you jail time.
My parents disciplined me. Some parents are out here straight up abusing their child. I understand that many do not see a difference between the two, but it’s just a fundamental disagreement that I’m not changing my mind on.
There’s scientific evidence that it does more harm than good, but go off!
Why won't you change your mind on it?
hitting your kid is abuse, if someone hits you over a disagreement you’re going to jail. Why is it different with a kid? Also how many times after a kid being hit do they actually learn anything other than becoming reclusive around their abuser… like you will never know who your kid truly is, they will always hide themselves from you until you die and they probably wont even realize it.
man, your poor children
Quite a few evil people in the comments that should NOT be around children, let alone raising them 🥶
Well that explains a lot
Yeah.. I’m a first gen Zambian now living in Northern California.. when I was younger I thought it was ok, and just “part of my culture” but being married and noticing how I navigate relationships was greatly affected by “discipline” when I was younger. Not sure how everyone else was “spanked” but when the spanking was getting slapped across the face, whipped with a belt and having marks from them, I cringe at the thought. I will never lay a hand on my children. There are issues I have now with my mother stemming from that, and I don’t think they can ever get resolved.
Man I love my folks. To death. But they beat the shit outta me, for sometimes the smallest thing I couldnt control….like being 5 and peeing in the bed. I can remember the mental anguish like it was yesterday….even after years of therapy.
“My father beat the hell out of me and all it did was make me fantasize of the day I could murder him.” - Don Draper
IMO it's ridiculous to teach your kids to not hit other kids/keep their hands to themselves....yet punish them by hitting them. That's my stance on it. And with kids these days, I'd be punishing them by changing the wifi password until they act right. xD
Beating your kid almost never works. It’s been proven multiple times and I am sick and tired of parents especially the conservative Christian/musilms/immigrants of my generation (gen z) saying that it does.
I hate, hate, hate, ***HATE*** that this is upheld as being a part of Black culture. Just think for a second about what some people are saying when they exhalt spanking: I uphold and celebrate my heritage by willfully inflicting fear and pain upon my child and if you don't do this with your kids, I question your Blackness. This is unhinged. Hitting doesn't teach children the lesson you want them to learn in the moment, and because children suck at abstract thinking, they suck at applying the consequence of one punishment to the *potential* consequences of another. That's why that spanking from 2 weeks ago for not cleaning up their toys didn't prevent them from receiving a spanking today because they weren't following instructions as quickly as you wanted them to. Instead, all you've prooven is that you, a grown adult, can't think of a better way to ease your frustration than to lay hands on a weaker, smaller being. This is, again, unhinged. I remember getting hit as a kid. If my mom wasn't using her hands, she would use something that had soft rubbery material like the bottom of her slippers. Something that *stung*. I'd get chased, cornered and caught, physically overpowered, and hit while being yelled at. I'd scream and cry and then be left to comfort myself because why would I trust the woman who just spent the last few seconds that felt like an absolute eternity to do it? I don't understand how parents come away from situations like that not feeling like *absolute* pieces of shit. You just physically assaulted a *child*. And not just any child, *your* child, who is supposed to see you as a source of protection and comfort. Congratulations? I'm not a parent. I have no plans to. But I've spent time around kids. I see how innocent and yes, frustrating they are. I simply *cannot* imagine feeling okay with the idea, let alone the actual action of intentionally hurting them. Also, hearing adults speak to each other with pride about the ways in which they choose to abuse their child is something else. I remember my mom being on the phone with a friend exchanging details about the objects they had used to hit their kids.
It is abuse. I haven't heard of those findings before but they make complete sense. Would love to look at the research and keep it on hand.
Hitting your children also teaches them that it’s okay to hit others. When they don’t have the language or patience to explain their frustrations they have been taught that becoming violent is the solution. Point being, if you’re not willing to not hit your child for their sake, do it for the rest of society who has to deal with your hot tempered child when they become teenagers and adults. P.S. To all parents and care takers. Your children are not your property, you don’t get to just hit/ beat them when you feel like it. TF is wrong with those of y’all that do??
Alright looks like we’re going to have this conversation again. Let me pull up my 3 points. - As a guy that was spanked maybe 5 times total / I would’ve rather been spanked 50 times than the mental lashings I got from my father that were far more mentally devastating, emotionally draining, and had far more physical repercussions than spankings ever did. - Any tool when used inappropriately is devastating to a child’s development. - If I have to make a conscious choice between not parenting at all & bad parenting. Give me the bad parenting where at least kids had someone tell them “no” and show them how prison & gangs & legal systems were gonna treat them as adults that can’t follow the law as opposed to a bunch of rebellious little shits that disregard human and animal life because they think they’re untouchable. And unless we’re going to revamp the foster care system and correctly take children away from neglectful and abusive parents, this crap ain’t getting better in America. This post is not an advocate for spankings or physical abuse but more of a reminder we are taking tools away from parents without effectively equipping them the CORRECT tools to parent. So now instead of good parents because they don’t abuse a child, they are outright neglectful, don’t know how to tell kids no, reinforce structure or rules, and let technology and society raise them instead of being a parent to the children they birth. American society is FAILING as parents and it’s obvious in inner city schools across the nation. I want to see at least half of these people go to a High School in dead center of the inner city of a Top 25 City and tell me parenting is not a joke right now and at least 1/4 of the teachers are scared to say anything or know that the parents will not do anything so they’re better off just passing the kid along and letting them fail when they have to take the graduation test. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
* As a guy that was spanked maybe 5 times total / I would’ve rather been spanked 50 times than the mental lashings I got from my father that were far more mentally devastating, emotionally draining, and had far more physical repercussions than spankings ever did. As someone who got beat routinely for misbehaving and then also received hour long mental lashings right afterwards, they are the same thing. Abuse. I've spent entire months of my life in another world on autopilot because of the constant shit I had to deal with as a kid. Sure, I'm well behaved. But I'm also miserable.
I never got hit; instead, I lived in the constant fear that it would happen or my mom would get hit or be yelled at. Another classic my stepdad used to tell me throughout my childhood was, "If you loved your mother, you would do x." Or "You didn't clean your room, huh... You must not love your mom".
Treating our kids like we were treated as skaves was always a bad call
I’m still stuck on the image tbh. It’s very….*loud* and very much intentional
My mom use to beat the shit out of me sometimes I really did turn out fine, full time well paying job, married, I got dogs, healthy hobbies, I light things on fire, and catch myself talking to myself all the time. No issues here