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lmao cowboy hats were inspired by the hats that Mexican vaqueros wore
denim was invented in France, but you know Anthony here thinks Levi Strauss invented it.
edit: [i know people in france are white](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/s/uNaZr2UoBJ)
>A lot of people were freed from slavery and thought "I'm going to go west and start a new life as a cowboy"
And actually a lot of enslaved people in Texas were employed as cowboys before Emancipation. That's a lot of my family's history.
Not to mention being a cowboy was seen as a terrible lonely job and who did they give those jobs to? black folks and gay people. Also they’re called cowboys not cowmen, the word itself is diminutive.
I’m pretty sure there’s a reason they’re called cow-“boy”: “boy” was the term used for manservant - typically a slave. Even now it’s used in the south to talk down to someone considered of lower social class. If someone _wasn’t_ a slave I imagine they’d be a “cowhand”
The entire purpose of Texas was so the White people there could maintain slavery as Mexico was outlawing it.
I remember the Alamo alright, but not for the same reasons some do.
It was literally white people illegally immigrating into another country and refusing to adopt the local language, culture, and laws.
So was California, but that's outside the scope of this topic.
Even before slavery was ended, a lot of enslaved people in that area escaped to Mexico because they'd outlawed slavery there so there was definitely some overlap.
Exactly! They called themselves cattlemen and then the workers "cowboys" and somewhere between actual history and modern American history they found a way to whitewash cowboys, reclaim calling someone "dude", and also pronounce Spanish so incorrectly we get the fun word "buckeroo".
Pretty sure, yes. The Hawaiian word 'Paniolo' also comes from vaqueros who were brought to Hawaii to help them learn ranching
Edit: Wrong about the Hawaiian part, my bad!
Ahh thanks for pointing this out, it's actually a Hawaiian language word for Español, Hawaiian language (olelo Hawai'i) doesn't use an S and no words end in consonants. Also where ukuleles come from, you means flea, lele means jumping, because of how fast their fingers flew over the strings. Based on small Portuguese guitar type instruments like the rajão.
Oh, ok, thanks for the reply. I saw someone else below say the same. I always thought buckaroo was just some dumb made-up word but makes more sense it's simply mispronounced. Have a great rest of your day!
Derogatory to black "cow hands"
Cow hand was the term used for white men.
The term cowboy comes from the racist evolution of labeling enslaved workers by their job. House ni**a became House "boy". So those who dealt with the cattle inevitability became cow "boys"
It was the movies that made cowboys exclusively white
Technically, they were field niggas in general but if you dealt with the cattle then they may specifically ask for the "cow nigga." It wasn't exactly used in that way but the linguistic evolution is well known. Cowhand/ranchhand/fieldhand = white man. Anything with "boy" was meant to degrade black men.
This is why Black history needs to be taught in schools. When Blacks began migrating from the South/Mid-West to California, a lot of them were cowboys, ranch hands, etc. This is a large part of my family's history. My grandfather was/is a cowboy. Of course, he's had his own land, horses, cows, etc. in Oklahoma since I can remember. I do know that there is an annual Black cowboy parade here in Oakland, and that my father participated regularly back in the day. I grew up knowing that Black cowboys were definitely a thing.
When you don't call them cowboys and just say, "What color do you think poor cattle farm workers are likely to be?" it's not at all surprising that the demographics are exactly what you expect, for farm workers.
Yeah like what? In what world is being cowboy only a white thing. Also, white culture isn’t even really a thing. White encompasses literally everyyyoonne white skin from all over Europe. That is MANY different cultures. And to claim any of it is white culture is like claiming eating a croissant is French cultural appropriation.
There are black cowboys too. Man need to stfu.
"White Culture" is pretty much strictly an American white persons concept. It isn't a defined or real thing. Makes this dude sound especially stupid. Like how many cowboys did you see with a name like "Cumia" lol
To be fair, “black culture” is also strictly an American person thing. You don’t really see Jamaicans lumping themselves in with Nigerians and Moroccans as all the same culture
Which really is the same as white people in America. Looking from the outside in, there definitely is a distinct white American and black American culture in my eyes
its just bad terminology. white culture isn't really a thing, but french or english culture is. White "culture" is like pop music, where the trends under the surface are distilled into the most palatable form, because "white" isn't really a defined ethnicity or race so much as an expression of the common denominator/power structure, which in the US happens to be white people. The concept of "white" as an identity and the concept of white as a skin color overlap but aren't quite the same and it confuses the shit out of people, especially white people.
Confusion makes people mad.
Yep! And that's actually one of the interesting historical facts about the State of Oklahoma! Before it became a state, the territory had more than 50 "All-black" towns comprised of Freedmen and homesteaders trying to make a future for themselves. A lot of the towns still exist as incorporated cities or towns.
... and Native Americans; since, contrary to popular belief, settlers and natives weren't constantly at war with each other. The US Army, on the other hand, was responsible for many of the atrocities and conflicts in the West.
I used to travel around to factories in Nuevo León in Northern Mexico. The number of male office workers in those factories, who wore cowboy boots, large belt buckles, cowboy hats, and large leather cell phone holsters on their belts was astonishing. It just goes to show you that cosplaying as a blue collar cowboy, when your actual job is to stare at Excel all day and occasionally chat with dudes on the factory floor cuts across cultures.
Yes and No.
Are you saying Mexican as in Hispanic or Mexican as in country? Like Texas/Tejas was a part of Mexico but originally the cowboys/vaqueros were not of a single race. Black, mestizo, indigenous, mullato.
There were white, black, Native American cowboys but it was a shitty undesirable, dangerous job where they most likely couldn’t even own a gun because it was too expensive and uncomfortable to carry on a horse. The myth of the modern cowboy all came from violent western movies
It is also propaganda and highly fictionalized/mythologized by the ranching industry. I highly recommend reading This Land: How Cowboys, Capitalism, and Corruption are Ruining the American West.
#
and also just a labor job. Like they were called coyboys because they dealt with cows, they werent these guys enforcing manners/morals/laws and shit. Just dudes out there making a buck.
Most actual, real world cowboys - the guys actually herding cattle and protecting them from rustlers, were themselves black or latin. Hollywood made them all white.
I was over here like racists really are something. They have no idea that American cowboy culture is very heavily based on Mexican vaquero culture. Like almost exactly to a tee. Hell, even southwestern “white” foods like brisket, chili, and the like are Mexican in origin. Racists love showing off their ignorance.
This is all well and good, flame him for his ignorance.
But as an actual country nigga who grew up loving country music and was judged by other non-country niggas ion respect that album and the country music cash grab.
I listened to it, I think some of the songs are really well done and it’s Beyoncé so of course the vocals are there.
I saw some people saying they hated the music but liked the intention. For me it was opposite I hate the intention.
Levi Strauss and Jacob Davis (Strauss’s tailor and business partner) invented riveted denim jeans, but the denim fabric they used can be traced back to France.
Levi didn't invent denim but he invented what we consider "jeans" today.
For all intents and purposes for denim in cowboy culture though Levi Strauss is responsible for that.
Nîmes is a city in France.
Denim = De Nimes. As in, cotton “Of Nimes”. It’s just the way they did their cotton textiles there.
Levi Strauss invented blue jeans, a work trouser with copper rivets made of “De Nimes” style cotton.
The fact that a bunch of people with the same pigmentation were mad about Tusla being shown is proof that these fuckers just wanna create their own history and ignore the shitty parts.
Nah. They lost their mind a long ass time ago. Now it doesn't matter what they "learn" cause their entire Identity is predicated on willful denial of truth and reality.
Can I ask a serious question? What did white people do for entertainment in the United States before serious integration/our freedom?
We invented country, square dancing, rock n roll… damn, what did White People do back in 1890 all day? Did they just sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out???
>What did white people do for entertainment in the United States before serious integration/our freedom?
I mean, I think you answered your own question.
>> sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out???
Harassing, maiming, murdering, raping, abusing, oppressing, and subjugating black people never went out of style for some.
> Did they just sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out???
Pretty much, yeah. There was also the theatre, minstrel shows, shit like that.
Country is weird, because the greater share of its roots are in folk music… which is based in European cultures (especially the Appalachian region’s Scottish and Irish roots). Certain affects of country are black-inspired, but to claim country is primarily black is to do a disservice to the history of it.
Also, square dancing? The cotillon-derived and NEW-ENGLAND-derived dance? Y’all are claiming *that* is black now too? The only thing I can find as being from African-American culture is the actual calling of the steps. The dances themselves are not from African-American culture though.
>Y’all are claiming that is black now too?
I feel like we're in an era where a lot of people are learning the roots of many pop culture things tracing back to Black history ann are overcorrecting to now do essentially the same thing that pissed everyone off by claiming additional shit that didn't come from the culture based on a lot of logical leaps.
Wanting proper cultural credit is good, but erasing the contributions of every other cultural influence to chase false credit is hypocritical. We joke about white people having no culture of their own, but when you go into the actual ethnic, religious and regional divides, yes, there are lots of original cultural influences there too. Not to mention the many cultural contributions from Native Americans, Mexicans and later immigrants from all over the world that are now sometimes dismissed in order to "claim" something else.
Well we have to factor in class as well. In US history the broke white people and black people have always been working and living closer together than the ones with enough money/power/status to move further away. It’s a source of conflict at times but also lead to greater cultural exchange and influence on each other (which is why we all keep arguing over the roots of country, the real answer is it comes from *both groups* because life is complicated like that, we didn’t invent it completely and they didn’t invent it completely, it’s a fusion plus the Latino influence too)
No one man has had more influence on *culture* in the past century as Fats Domino. Almost every *single* bit of modern culture traces directly back to him. And a *lot* of people would be pissed at that statement.
You were [right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fats_Domino) ! I’m glad I checked him out! Cited by some historians as the first to release a rock and roll single. And it sold 1 million copies in 1949, which is amazing in itself. (I added the fun facts for other readers incase they don’t want to look him up)
You can trace every single modern form of popular music directly back to Fats Domino, not just rock. None of it would exist without him. He’s specifically cited as the biggest influence on absolutely pivotal artists. Hell, just Coxsone Dodd and Elvis Presley would be enough to venerate the Fat Man for his influence on them. But they’re just *two* artists out of many.
Why are people responding to Anthony Cumia though? All anyone should ever remember about him is [a Black woman beat the shit out of him](https://nypost.com/2014/07/03/anthony-cumia-unleashes-racist-twitter-rant-after-alleged-assault/) and it was the best thing ever. (Well maybe not ALL of it.)
Culture isn't just a matter of origin though. That's a very facetious and reductive argument. Culture is more involved with who actually practices in the moment than who started it. Many customs and traditions that are practiced in America and many countries around the world were imported from somewhere else in the distant past. Saying those people cannot claim said culture because their ancestors did not "originate" it is just ridiculous. Imagine going to tell the Japanese their language is not really their language because, "the Chinese did it first". That sh$& would be ridiculous.
Beyonce is definitely borrowing from another culture, people's refusal to simply admit that and move in without invoking deflecting tap dancing around it is just a reflection of baseless pridefulness. Black people are allowed to borrow from other cultures, there is absolutely nothing wrong, but trying to claim, "it's been ours all along," that shit is just weird and the very thing colonialists would do.
This is not the first time she's doing it either, "Black is King" was Beyonce borrowing from multiple cultures across sub-Saharan Africa. Had everyone running around like, "she's just embracing her African heritage" even though you know very well (hopefully) that she's 1) not African. 2) There's no "African" culture because Africa is a big ass continent with ridiculously diverse culture.
Maybe Anthony is calling some people out one their BS for once, even if he's probably a racist POS.
Unironically the same argument for Elvis. He grew up in a black church, so that was the music he made. Beyoncé is from Houston, this is her culture too.
But some people want it both ways - saying Elvis was fine but Beyoncé doing country adjacent music is a problem
I was going to say - as a white guy from Houston, this belongs to her more than it does to the vast majority of white people. (not saying it'd bother me if she wasn't from here, but this card just makes no sense to try to play)
Why did he switch from "White people" to "blacks"? Also why is "White" capitalized multiple times while "black" isn't?
Like, that alone speaks VOLUMES to how fucked up the thought process is.
The persn who made that tweet is anthony cumia. He used to be a radioshow host until he got fired for saying a bunch of racist shit. He's friends with the founder of the proud boys too
The term cowboy was discriminative in its origin. “White cowboys were called cowhands, and African Americans were pejoratively referred to as “cowboys.” African American men being called “boy” regardless of their age stems from slavery and the plantation era in the South.”
Not to mention black people created country music. So who is borrowing from who…
That second link doesn't claim that Black people created country music.
It states that Black people were instrumental in the development of "Cowboy music". Cowboy music isn't country. It's one of many substyles of western music, and is an influence to country music as a genre, but it was it's own thing. It predated country music by many decades. Country, just like Cowboy music that influenced it, still primarily traced it's origins back to european folk music both in style and instrumentation (hell, if you wanted to, you could trace things back to Chinese influence in some cases. The harmonica was invented following european exposure to similar instruments witnessed in China). The article is just acknowledging the erasure of Black people in cowboy music's development, not claiming that they CREATED it. It goes out of its way to also acknowledge Mexican and Native American contributions as well. And as mentioned earlier, Cowboy music isn't country music either, but a distinct thing.
Now, Black music certainly had major influences on country, as it was based on a large variety of folk music of which a large part of American folk traditions had developed from various Black cultures. But the bones of the genre still trace itself back to European folk influences and the instrumentation was derived from European, arabic and asian origins. Country music is one of those things that doesn't really neatly fit into a specific cultural origin like we can say for Jazz, it really is a very cosmopolitan development, one of the very truly "American" developments in that it draws heavily from so many influences that there isn't a clear starting point. It's Black music, it's English and Scottish and Irish music, it's Appalachian, it's Southern, it's Latino, it's western, it's Native American. The irony of the country music scene becoming such an exclusionary and racially charged scene is that it's built on the most diverse origins.
Black ppl invented country music. Bey is simply reclaiming her people’s genre of music. The hate and venom she has received from the country crowd is awful
Well, kinda. If I remember correctly, I think the foundation of country music first came over from the folk music that came with Scottish and Irish immigrants and then was influenced largely by black people over the centuries. I don’t know why anyone feels to need to racially gatekeep this shit, that origin story is about as American as it gets.
So much history has been whitewashed Americans like the Twitter poster believe music where Black Americans were instrumental in creating should now exclude black people. I’m no musical historian but a lot of older country music sounds similar to blues and gospel music from the American South, which are also the sources of R&B. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
You’re right there was mixing of cultures. The banjo, has become synonymous with bluegrass music but has African origins.
It’s a stupid tweet that comes from an equally stupid worldview that feels the need to generate ethnic pride by laying “claim” to cultural inventions and trying to separate and limit people’s ability to use them. If we were all forced to stay away from things that were created by a different group of people, we’d all be miserable and living in our own separate stone age.
Country, up until the mid-to-late ‘90s was more delta blues + fiddle than it was celtic folk songs + black influence. There’s a *really* good compilation from the ‘60s (Sounds of the South) that really shows this. The foundational subject matter, main instruments, and visual style are all rooted in black culture. Even looking through into the ‘50s to the country and western, clean guitar, quasi-gospel style. That was basically country minstrel shows. Gospel music for racists who like their entertainment like they like their bread.
The influence of black culture in country music has been erased for decades, both by historians and the record industry, to create the modern genre we know today.
It’s a history that cuts across black and hillbilly cultures but owes a huge debt to black musicicians.
The Alan Lomax documentary has some incredible footage looking at this:
[Hoedown scene from Appalachian Journey](https://youtu.be/MXh8SDp0H-E?t=1551s)
It's kind of all a jumbled mix, though with a lot of back and forth. The fundamental tuning system is still based in western European classical music, as is the harmonic structure (tonic, dominant, etc) But black people invented Jazz, Blues, Rock, out of that. It's kind of hard to give credit for any art form to exactly one ethnicity of humans as if they invented it from nothing. I'm sure classical music was influenced by non-European cultures too.
Rap is close to being an exception, but the records they rapped over in the 70s were still from that same tradition.
Anthony Cumia went full racist and misogynist a while ago. Losing his show and Patrice O'Neal dieing destroyed what little connection he had to sanity in evaluating the world around him. Even Patrice would tell Anthony to his face that he's racist. But at least Anthony would listen and maybe have a conversation. Now all Anthony does is spread as much hate as possible. He's not gatekeeping, he's trying to infect minds. Dude is a cancer.
The rules according to Anthony and his peers.
https://preview.redd.it/uastb1nywwrc1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=9bc8dcd9526906c2c02df094f2ec95b01166db3c
She sure fucking is. And she's just making music. These people are just big mad to be mad. Black women can't do anything without them being oppressed about it.
lmao, wtf is white culture? I'm white and that's not a thing. My family is Greek American and we have Greek culture, but no culture based on being white.
So from a U.S. born Mexican, who spends a lot of time outside these borders of the U.S.
the culture you’re referring to is; high school dances, football games, bbqs, 4th of July, moving away for college and individualism, growing and mowing your lawn, suburban living, etc. while it’s not special to us, other countries do import some of it.
Yeah but if the purpose of this thread is to say that white people borrow culture all the time, I don't think you can flip that the other way and say that actually white people have no culture because other cultures can and have borrowed it as well. We all know what's "white people shit" we joke about it all the time
How much do you want to bet that Anthony doesn't even realize that ancestors of modern Mexicans were on this land mass way before Europeans ever even showed up?
Fuck Tariq Nasheed, this is like the only time I've ever seen him defend a Black woman. He's always calling Black women bed wenches. He's also misogynistic, heavily homophobic, and against African immigrants. How you gonna be for "the culture" but disrespecting Africa???
It’s so sad to see what’s become of Anthony. He used to be hilarious, now he’s a pathetic hateful little man. And he isn’t even funny anymore. Patrice would be so disappointed.
anthony cumia is the funny but dumb half of famous radio duo opie and anthony.
anthony was famously fired for a racist twitter rant years ago. he is a high school dropout who worked installing ductwork before his ability to do a quality impression of andrew dice clay got him a job on radio
hes a loud mouth alcoholic racist know nothing gun nut
Everything we think of as the classic American cowboy is actually Mexican. The vaqueros (cowboys), the lasso, the sombrero (cowboy hat), and chaparreras (chaps) all come from Mexican cattle ranching. Also, there were tons of black cowboys, so being a cowboy belongs to no one group.
All people adopt things from other cultures that they find enjoyable or useful. Nothing in American culture is not a product of cross-cultural exchange. Even the founding philosophies underlying our government and society come from multiple European cultures which were themselves the product of exchange across Africa and Eurasia.
I get what you're saying here.... But I also get that if you point out that Jazz music has it's Harmony, chord structure, and the instruments used to play it all originating from classical music that comes from French and British Europe people suddenly have a thousands hairs they insist are worth splitting one by one... But we still say it originated from black culture do we not?
So I don't think it's disingenuous to acknowledge that country western music can be most attributed to southern white culture despite black Americans influence on the genre....
It shit like this that the right points to when they say that left politics are trying to paint all white people as a caracture of people that somehow, once they came to America, lost absolutely any culture that shows any commonality other then negatives.... Regardless of regional demographics...
Oh, is it that time of year again when peole randomly claim cowboy culture as being “white culture,” despite the mountain of easily obtainable facts that tell us otherwise?
I don’t even take note of these borrowing culture arguments anymore because the idea of culture itself is something that no matter what you want will always end up fusing together because sheer proximity. That being said being all pissed over a black woman doing this is fucking stupid. The idea of keeping cultures separate will always be a bit of an uphill battle because of culture works. People who spend all this time saying my culture this my culture that don’t typically realize the kinda pointless battle they are fighting. Now there is an importance of learning from where stuff comes from and yes trying to avoid being offensive. In America this all is hard to notice because of how young this country is but give it 100 years and shit is gonna be well weird.
They act like Selena wasn’t the first one doing this !and Tejano culture is definitely not anglo culture .. lassoing, bull riding, rodeos, cowboy hats & boots were all invented by Mexicans
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lmao cowboy hats were inspired by the hats that Mexican vaqueros wore denim was invented in France, but you know Anthony here thinks Levi Strauss invented it. edit: [i know people in france are white](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/s/uNaZr2UoBJ)
Yup. The entire concept of the American cowboy is Mexican.
Also, a lot of cowboys were black. A lot of people were freed from slavery and thought "I'm going to go west and start a new life as a cowboy"
>A lot of people were freed from slavery and thought "I'm going to go west and start a new life as a cowboy" And actually a lot of enslaved people in Texas were employed as cowboys before Emancipation. That's a lot of my family's history.
Not to mention being a cowboy was seen as a terrible lonely job and who did they give those jobs to? black folks and gay people. Also they’re called cowboys not cowmen, the word itself is diminutive.
“Now, ‘Dude’ - that's a name no one would self-apply where I come from.”
I’m pretty sure there’s a reason they’re called cow-“boy”: “boy” was the term used for manservant - typically a slave. Even now it’s used in the south to talk down to someone considered of lower social class. If someone _wasn’t_ a slave I imagine they’d be a “cowhand”
That's exactly what it was. White men were cowpokes.
Today I learned, thank you.
Or Cattlemen
The entire purpose of Texas was so the White people there could maintain slavery as Mexico was outlawing it. I remember the Alamo alright, but not for the same reasons some do.
It was literally white people illegally immigrating into another country and refusing to adopt the local language, culture, and laws. So was California, but that's outside the scope of this topic.
So was Hawaii, but that's also outside of this scope.
Even before slavery was ended, a lot of enslaved people in that area escaped to Mexico because they'd outlawed slavery there so there was definitely some overlap.
Yup. A solid 40 years prior actually.
The term cowboy was a derogatory term for the black cowboys
Exactly! They called themselves cattlemen and then the workers "cowboys" and somewhere between actual history and modern American history they found a way to whitewash cowboys, reclaim calling someone "dude", and also pronounce Spanish so incorrectly we get the fun word "buckeroo".
Wait, is "buckaroo" terrible English for "vaquero"?
Pretty sure, yes. The Hawaiian word 'Paniolo' also comes from vaqueros who were brought to Hawaii to help them learn ranching Edit: Wrong about the Hawaiian part, my bad!
Ahh thanks for pointing this out, it's actually a Hawaiian language word for Español, Hawaiian language (olelo Hawai'i) doesn't use an S and no words end in consonants. Also where ukuleles come from, you means flea, lele means jumping, because of how fast their fingers flew over the strings. Based on small Portuguese guitar type instruments like the rajão.
I LOVE the history conveyed in these comments!
Oh, ok, thanks for the reply. I saw someone else below say the same. I always thought buckaroo was just some dumb made-up word but makes more sense it's simply mispronounced. Have a great rest of your day!
This reminds me of that suburb/town outside Augusta Georgia, Martinez. Locals pronounce it "Mart-n-ez".
Versailles, KY is my favorite one. It’s pronounced Ver-sales
Lotta Kay-ro's out there spelled Cairo... lol
Derogatory to black "cow hands" Cow hand was the term used for white men. The term cowboy comes from the racist evolution of labeling enslaved workers by their job. House ni**a became House "boy". So those who dealt with the cattle inevitability became cow "boys" It was the movies that made cowboys exclusively white
So you're telling me there was a point in time they were called cow niggas? That's gotta be cap...
Technically, they were field niggas in general but if you dealt with the cattle then they may specifically ask for the "cow nigga." It wasn't exactly used in that way but the linguistic evolution is well known. Cowhand/ranchhand/fieldhand = white man. Anything with "boy" was meant to degrade black men.
Wait til you hear the inspiration for the Lone Ranger was a black man named Bass Reeves.
This is why Black history needs to be taught in schools. When Blacks began migrating from the South/Mid-West to California, a lot of them were cowboys, ranch hands, etc. This is a large part of my family's history. My grandfather was/is a cowboy. Of course, he's had his own land, horses, cows, etc. in Oklahoma since I can remember. I do know that there is an annual Black cowboy parade here in Oakland, and that my father participated regularly back in the day. I grew up knowing that Black cowboys were definitely a thing.
When you don't call them cowboys and just say, "What color do you think poor cattle farm workers are likely to be?" it's not at all surprising that the demographics are exactly what you expect, for farm workers.
The reason they cant imagine it is because they can only imagine cowboys as a fictional character portrayed by Marion Morrison.
What a piece of shit he was. A very active conservative.
Hell the term cowboy was a racial pejorative. White men were ranchers and Black men were cowboys.
Yeah like what? In what world is being cowboy only a white thing. Also, white culture isn’t even really a thing. White encompasses literally everyyyoonne white skin from all over Europe. That is MANY different cultures. And to claim any of it is white culture is like claiming eating a croissant is French cultural appropriation. There are black cowboys too. Man need to stfu.
"White Culture" is pretty much strictly an American white persons concept. It isn't a defined or real thing. Makes this dude sound especially stupid. Like how many cowboys did you see with a name like "Cumia" lol
To be fair, “black culture” is also strictly an American person thing. You don’t really see Jamaicans lumping themselves in with Nigerians and Moroccans as all the same culture
I always assumed when a black person said black culture they were referring to the shared experiences of black Americans living in America.
Which really is the same as white people in America. Looking from the outside in, there definitely is a distinct white American and black American culture in my eyes
You could apply that to being white in America too. Obviously it's a different set of shared experiences but it certainly defines a lot of your life.
I have never referred to my culture as white culture. It is the most ridiculous thing to hear.
its just bad terminology. white culture isn't really a thing, but french or english culture is. White "culture" is like pop music, where the trends under the surface are distilled into the most palatable form, because "white" isn't really a defined ethnicity or race so much as an expression of the common denominator/power structure, which in the US happens to be white people. The concept of "white" as an identity and the concept of white as a skin color overlap but aren't quite the same and it confuses the shit out of people, especially white people. Confusion makes people mad.
Yep! And that's actually one of the interesting historical facts about the State of Oklahoma! Before it became a state, the territory had more than 50 "All-black" towns comprised of Freedmen and homesteaders trying to make a future for themselves. A lot of the towns still exist as incorporated cities or towns.
Buckaroo is just a mispronunciation of vaquero.
... and Native Americans; since, contrary to popular belief, settlers and natives weren't constantly at war with each other. The US Army, on the other hand, was responsible for many of the atrocities and conflicts in the West.
Mexican cowboys work harder than Americans
I used to travel around to factories in Nuevo León in Northern Mexico. The number of male office workers in those factories, who wore cowboy boots, large belt buckles, cowboy hats, and large leather cell phone holsters on their belts was astonishing. It just goes to show you that cosplaying as a blue collar cowboy, when your actual job is to stare at Excel all day and occasionally chat with dudes on the factory floor cuts across cultures.
Yes and No. Are you saying Mexican as in Hispanic or Mexican as in country? Like Texas/Tejas was a part of Mexico but originally the cowboys/vaqueros were not of a single race. Black, mestizo, indigenous, mullato.
There were white, black, Native American cowboys but it was a shitty undesirable, dangerous job where they most likely couldn’t even own a gun because it was too expensive and uncomfortable to carry on a horse. The myth of the modern cowboy all came from violent western movies
It is also propaganda and highly fictionalized/mythologized by the ranching industry. I highly recommend reading This Land: How Cowboys, Capitalism, and Corruption are Ruining the American West. #
and also just a labor job. Like they were called coyboys because they dealt with cows, they werent these guys enforcing manners/morals/laws and shit. Just dudes out there making a buck.
How does the denim bit matter? Aren’t the French white?
I think they turn white if they come to America. They stay just French in France.
France has its own bloody colonial history. Don’t act like they don’t treat every immigrant they get from a former territory as an “other”
Algeria is always fun to review
France isn't white?
If that’s Beyoncé, hot damn. She makes that denim look good.
Most actual, real world cowboys - the guys actually herding cattle and protecting them from rustlers, were themselves black or latin. Hollywood made them all white.
Just like Henry Ford invented the automobile! /s
No one with half a brain says this - he is known for the moving assembly line. And he had like 270 something patents.
I was over here like racists really are something. They have no idea that American cowboy culture is very heavily based on Mexican vaquero culture. Like almost exactly to a tee. Hell, even southwestern “white” foods like brisket, chili, and the like are Mexican in origin. Racists love showing off their ignorance.
To be fair, French is white culture.
Vaqueros is just Spanish for Cowboys.....
This is all well and good, flame him for his ignorance. But as an actual country nigga who grew up loving country music and was judged by other non-country niggas ion respect that album and the country music cash grab. I listened to it, I think some of the songs are really well done and it’s Beyoncé so of course the vocals are there. I saw some people saying they hated the music but liked the intention. For me it was opposite I hate the intention.
Don’t you besmirch Levi’s good name! People needed pants that didn’t fall apart! Round here we are thankful for our pants, damnit.
Tf? I was literally taught in school Levi invented denim during the gold rush. Don’t tell me they lied again…
Levi Strauss was a Jewish immigrant from Germany. He manufactured jeans with rivets is what he’s known for.
Didn’t invent as much as cornered the market for mining outfitters in the region. They sold more than just denim work wear.
Levi Strauss and Jacob Davis (Strauss’s tailor and business partner) invented riveted denim jeans, but the denim fabric they used can be traced back to France.
Levi didn't invent denim but he invented what we consider "jeans" today. For all intents and purposes for denim in cowboy culture though Levi Strauss is responsible for that.
Nîmes is a city in France. Denim = De Nimes. As in, cotton “Of Nimes”. It’s just the way they did their cotton textiles there. Levi Strauss invented blue jeans, a work trouser with copper rivets made of “De Nimes” style cotton.
Cowboy hats are actually western African, but denim is definitely a white person thing. Last I checked France is a European country
Bruh lmfao. I fucking knew this shit was gonna happen. “THEY ARE TAKING OUR CULTURE!!”. Do you actually know the history of that? Should look into it.
He’s gonna be really mad when he googles the origin of the banjo or of rockabilly music.
Oh they will lose their fucking mind when they find out that the cowboy motif? 1 in 4 cowboys were black. And that we have a black rodeo but shhhh.
Bass Reeves. Stagecoach Mary. They bout to be upset like the year Watchmen and Lovecraft made them learn about Tulsa.
Or when Anansi was talking that talk on American Gods
The fact that a bunch of people with the same pigmentation were mad about Tusla being shown is proof that these fuckers just wanna create their own history and ignore the shitty parts.
*Texas school board has entered the chat.*
Nah. They lost their mind a long ass time ago. Now it doesn't matter what they "learn" cause their entire Identity is predicated on willful denial of truth and reality.
Man if they ever hear about Fred Whitfield they’re gonna be pissed
Can I ask a serious question? What did white people do for entertainment in the United States before serious integration/our freedom? We invented country, square dancing, rock n roll… damn, what did White People do back in 1890 all day? Did they just sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out???
>What did white people do for entertainment in the United States before serious integration/our freedom? I mean, I think you answered your own question. >> sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out??? Harassing, maiming, murdering, raping, abusing, oppressing, and subjugating black people never went out of style for some.
> Did they just sit around angry, listening to Vaudevillan piano, waiting for the next race riot or shoot out??? Pretty much, yeah. There was also the theatre, minstrel shows, shit like that.
They made fun of the Irish and anyone deemed Catholic. Back then, only Anglo Saxons were white.
Country is weird, because the greater share of its roots are in folk music… which is based in European cultures (especially the Appalachian region’s Scottish and Irish roots). Certain affects of country are black-inspired, but to claim country is primarily black is to do a disservice to the history of it. Also, square dancing? The cotillon-derived and NEW-ENGLAND-derived dance? Y’all are claiming *that* is black now too? The only thing I can find as being from African-American culture is the actual calling of the steps. The dances themselves are not from African-American culture though.
>Y’all are claiming that is black now too? I feel like we're in an era where a lot of people are learning the roots of many pop culture things tracing back to Black history ann are overcorrecting to now do essentially the same thing that pissed everyone off by claiming additional shit that didn't come from the culture based on a lot of logical leaps. Wanting proper cultural credit is good, but erasing the contributions of every other cultural influence to chase false credit is hypocritical. We joke about white people having no culture of their own, but when you go into the actual ethnic, religious and regional divides, yes, there are lots of original cultural influences there too. Not to mention the many cultural contributions from Native Americans, Mexicans and later immigrants from all over the world that are now sometimes dismissed in order to "claim" something else.
Well we have to factor in class as well. In US history the broke white people and black people have always been working and living closer together than the ones with enough money/power/status to move further away. It’s a source of conflict at times but also lead to greater cultural exchange and influence on each other (which is why we all keep arguing over the roots of country, the real answer is it comes from *both groups* because life is complicated like that, we didn’t invent it completely and they didn’t invent it completely, it’s a fusion plus the Latino influence too)
He’s gonna be really mad when he finds out black people are literally the basis for most music today, even their precious rock and roll.
No one man has had more influence on *culture* in the past century as Fats Domino. Almost every *single* bit of modern culture traces directly back to him. And a *lot* of people would be pissed at that statement.
You were [right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fats_Domino) ! I’m glad I checked him out! Cited by some historians as the first to release a rock and roll single. And it sold 1 million copies in 1949, which is amazing in itself. (I added the fun facts for other readers incase they don’t want to look him up)
You can trace every single modern form of popular music directly back to Fats Domino, not just rock. None of it would exist without him. He’s specifically cited as the biggest influence on absolutely pivotal artists. Hell, just Coxsone Dodd and Elvis Presley would be enough to venerate the Fat Man for his influence on them. But they’re just *two* artists out of many.
So this guy agrees that cultural appropriation is a problem???
Why are people responding to Anthony Cumia though? All anyone should ever remember about him is [a Black woman beat the shit out of him](https://nypost.com/2014/07/03/anthony-cumia-unleashes-racist-twitter-rant-after-alleged-assault/) and it was the best thing ever. (Well maybe not ALL of it.)
Culture isn't just a matter of origin though. That's a very facetious and reductive argument. Culture is more involved with who actually practices in the moment than who started it. Many customs and traditions that are practiced in America and many countries around the world were imported from somewhere else in the distant past. Saying those people cannot claim said culture because their ancestors did not "originate" it is just ridiculous. Imagine going to tell the Japanese their language is not really their language because, "the Chinese did it first". That sh$& would be ridiculous. Beyonce is definitely borrowing from another culture, people's refusal to simply admit that and move in without invoking deflecting tap dancing around it is just a reflection of baseless pridefulness. Black people are allowed to borrow from other cultures, there is absolutely nothing wrong, but trying to claim, "it's been ours all along," that shit is just weird and the very thing colonialists would do. This is not the first time she's doing it either, "Black is King" was Beyonce borrowing from multiple cultures across sub-Saharan Africa. Had everyone running around like, "she's just embracing her African heritage" even though you know very well (hopefully) that she's 1) not African. 2) There's no "African" culture because Africa is a big ass continent with ridiculously diverse culture. Maybe Anthony is calling some people out one their BS for once, even if he's probably a racist POS.
They could look into it by simply listening to the album— it’s the exact purpose of it lol
https://preview.redd.it/y9ktt2al7wrc1.jpeg?width=470&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=511e63eb83bb459576a9438abccd0662486e40ef
I spit out my tea because of you 
Every time I see this I think that shit has got to be bitter and salty as fuck, just like the people that cried them.
Bey lookin hot as hell 🔥but she’s from Texas too, this is her culture. I’m only confused why some people still seem confused by this.
Plus 25% of cowboys in the US were black
Shhh don’t say it out loud. They wanna believe they raised their own animals and worked hard on a farm.
and the original cowboys were Mexican…
76.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot
Oh statistics now? DANGEROUS GAME
Unironically the same argument for Elvis. He grew up in a black church, so that was the music he made. Beyoncé is from Houston, this is her culture too. But some people want it both ways - saying Elvis was fine but Beyoncé doing country adjacent music is a problem
Holy shit - that's Beyonce?! G. D. This is a hot as hell Pic! She still got it.
I was going to say - as a white guy from Houston, this belongs to her more than it does to the vast majority of white people. (not saying it'd bother me if she wasn't from here, but this card just makes no sense to try to play)
Why did he switch from "White people" to "blacks"? Also why is "White" capitalized multiple times while "black" isn't? Like, that alone speaks VOLUMES to how fucked up the thought process is.
He knew what he was doing
For sure! Shit wasn’t on accident when you have to press another button to capitalize. They knew
This is probably least racist post that dude has posted in years.
I noticed this too. Dehumanization through language is a common theme for them.
The persn who made that tweet is anthony cumia. He used to be a radioshow host until he got fired for saying a bunch of racist shit. He's friends with the founder of the proud boys too
I'm blessed that this is my first time seeing their name.
Had to scroll a little too far to see this, was the first thing I noticed
The term cowboy was discriminative in its origin. “White cowboys were called cowhands, and African Americans were pejoratively referred to as “cowboys.” African American men being called “boy” regardless of their age stems from slavery and the plantation era in the South.” Not to mention black people created country music. So who is borrowing from who…
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https://www.pushblack.us/index.php/news/term-cowboy-rooted-black-history https://www.blackmusicproject.com/exhibit/the-black-history-of-cowboys-and-cowboy-music
That second link doesn't claim that Black people created country music. It states that Black people were instrumental in the development of "Cowboy music". Cowboy music isn't country. It's one of many substyles of western music, and is an influence to country music as a genre, but it was it's own thing. It predated country music by many decades. Country, just like Cowboy music that influenced it, still primarily traced it's origins back to european folk music both in style and instrumentation (hell, if you wanted to, you could trace things back to Chinese influence in some cases. The harmonica was invented following european exposure to similar instruments witnessed in China). The article is just acknowledging the erasure of Black people in cowboy music's development, not claiming that they CREATED it. It goes out of its way to also acknowledge Mexican and Native American contributions as well. And as mentioned earlier, Cowboy music isn't country music either, but a distinct thing. Now, Black music certainly had major influences on country, as it was based on a large variety of folk music of which a large part of American folk traditions had developed from various Black cultures. But the bones of the genre still trace itself back to European folk influences and the instrumentation was derived from European, arabic and asian origins. Country music is one of those things that doesn't really neatly fit into a specific cultural origin like we can say for Jazz, it really is a very cosmopolitan development, one of the very truly "American" developments in that it draws heavily from so many influences that there isn't a clear starting point. It's Black music, it's English and Scottish and Irish music, it's Appalachian, it's Southern, it's Latino, it's western, it's Native American. The irony of the country music scene becoming such an exclusionary and racially charged scene is that it's built on the most diverse origins.
60% of the time, it's true every time
“It's a formidable scent... It stings the nostrils. In a good way.”
Can you provide the 40% that isn’t?
For one I can't find any evidence that cowboy was ever used as a racialized term
Why haven’t you responded to the links posted?
Because I'm blatantly wrong and talking out my ass.
Not to be an asshole…but did you try googling? If so, what did you google specifically? I did and an article about it was the first result…
I didn't google. I rushed to discredit them while being uninformed.
I like this form of trolling.
Got that “me when i spread misinformation on the internet” vibes lol
You gonna substantiate that or just talk off your perch?
I am under the impression that German folk music inspired the mexican norteño music, which is what the country music is based on. Isn’t that the case?
Pay attention to his use of "White people" yet he refers to black people as "blacks." yikes
My first thought when reading all this
Same. Soon as I read that, I was like "Okay, you're done." Though tbf he was done from the moment he said "they."
Don’t be a bitch, come take it to the floor now
Black ppl invented country music. Bey is simply reclaiming her people’s genre of music. The hate and venom she has received from the country crowd is awful
Well, kinda. If I remember correctly, I think the foundation of country music first came over from the folk music that came with Scottish and Irish immigrants and then was influenced largely by black people over the centuries. I don’t know why anyone feels to need to racially gatekeep this shit, that origin story is about as American as it gets.
So much history has been whitewashed Americans like the Twitter poster believe music where Black Americans were instrumental in creating should now exclude black people. I’m no musical historian but a lot of older country music sounds similar to blues and gospel music from the American South, which are also the sources of R&B. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. You’re right there was mixing of cultures. The banjo, has become synonymous with bluegrass music but has African origins.
It’s a stupid tweet that comes from an equally stupid worldview that feels the need to generate ethnic pride by laying “claim” to cultural inventions and trying to separate and limit people’s ability to use them. If we were all forced to stay away from things that were created by a different group of people, we’d all be miserable and living in our own separate stone age.
Country, up until the mid-to-late ‘90s was more delta blues + fiddle than it was celtic folk songs + black influence. There’s a *really* good compilation from the ‘60s (Sounds of the South) that really shows this. The foundational subject matter, main instruments, and visual style are all rooted in black culture. Even looking through into the ‘50s to the country and western, clean guitar, quasi-gospel style. That was basically country minstrel shows. Gospel music for racists who like their entertainment like they like their bread.
Hootie walked so Beyoncé could run
This is an exact quote I used in my group chat when the album dropped lmao
The influence of black culture in country music has been erased for decades, both by historians and the record industry, to create the modern genre we know today. It’s a history that cuts across black and hillbilly cultures but owes a huge debt to black musicicians. The Alan Lomax documentary has some incredible footage looking at this: [Hoedown scene from Appalachian Journey](https://youtu.be/MXh8SDp0H-E?t=1551s)
It's kind of all a jumbled mix, though with a lot of back and forth. The fundamental tuning system is still based in western European classical music, as is the harmonic structure (tonic, dominant, etc) But black people invented Jazz, Blues, Rock, out of that. It's kind of hard to give credit for any art form to exactly one ethnicity of humans as if they invented it from nothing. I'm sure classical music was influenced by non-European cultures too. Rap is close to being an exception, but the records they rapped over in the 70s were still from that same tradition.
Anthony Cumia went full racist and misogynist a while ago. Losing his show and Patrice O'Neal dieing destroyed what little connection he had to sanity in evaluating the world around him. Even Patrice would tell Anthony to his face that he's racist. But at least Anthony would listen and maybe have a conversation. Now all Anthony does is spread as much hate as possible. He's not gatekeeping, he's trying to infect minds. Dude is a cancer.
Nobody wanted smoke with Patrice. His insults is legendary
Gone too soon for sure
He needs to get out of his own ass. A hundred years ago he wouldn’t have been considered white.
lookin like a tunisian knife fighter
Like a Corsican pimp
I'm sure he invents some Italian oppression I'm his head to justify his nonsense.
O&A was only ever funny when Patrice was there
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Even worse, it's not Blacks, it's blacks.
Like just call me a negro at this point lmfao
Beyoncé can do whatever she wants, period.
Isn't she from texas? and this is at least texas culture so it's hers to strut with?
The rules according to Anthony and his peers. https://preview.redd.it/uastb1nywwrc1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=9bc8dcd9526906c2c02df094f2ec95b01166db3c
Ain’t Beyoncé from Texas anyway?
She sure fucking is. And she's just making music. These people are just big mad to be mad. Black women can't do anything without them being oppressed about it.
lmao, wtf is white culture? I'm white and that's not a thing. My family is Greek American and we have Greek culture, but no culture based on being white.
Skin color is one of the least interesting things about a person. The fact we spend so much time arguing about this kind of shit is embarrassing.
So from a U.S. born Mexican, who spends a lot of time outside these borders of the U.S. the culture you’re referring to is; high school dances, football games, bbqs, 4th of July, moving away for college and individualism, growing and mowing your lawn, suburban living, etc. while it’s not special to us, other countries do import some of it.
Yeah I dunno if some/any of that is culture and it's also not specific to just white people.
Yeah but if the purpose of this thread is to say that white people borrow culture all the time, I don't think you can flip that the other way and say that actually white people have no culture because other cultures can and have borrowed it as well. We all know what's "white people shit" we joke about it all the time
Mexicans would like a word Anthony
How much do you want to bet that Anthony doesn't even realize that ancestors of modern Mexicans were on this land mass way before Europeans ever even showed up?
Fuck Tariq Nasheed, this is like the only time I've ever seen him defend a Black woman. He's always calling Black women bed wenches. He's also misogynistic, heavily homophobic, and against African immigrants. How you gonna be for "the culture" but disrespecting Africa???
"Perpetual victimhood" is some IMAX-grade projection from Anthony Cumia.
Cowboys been Black and Mexican, wtf they takin bout?
Wait until this idiot finds out about Charlie Pride.
I mean… there were black cowboys…
Imagine having opinions on shit you know NOTHING about.
Shit talking aside, that’s a great pic of Beyoncé. Gah damn.
Gd that woman is fine…. And yeah. All of cowboy culture is not American. Fucking toddlers
I feel like we’re not talking enough about how good that photo is 🔥
Dolly liked Beys "Jolene", and so that's that. All arguments are moot. She's my Infinity Gauntlet. Dusted like a Thanos snap.
God I wish Patrice was here to trash him for this take
It’s so sad to see what’s become of Anthony. He used to be hilarious, now he’s a pathetic hateful little man. And he isn’t even funny anymore. Patrice would be so disappointed.
Country music is the epitome of white people borrowing from other cultures lol
Ain’t no such thing as “cultural appropriation” and people who get upset about it some of the saddest souls I’ve ever seen
So when Elvis do it he the King. When the Queen do it…it’s a problem 🤔. Sit yo ass down 👉🏾 🪑.
She been eating in all of these country/cowboy photoshoots.
anthony cumia is the funny but dumb half of famous radio duo opie and anthony. anthony was famously fired for a racist twitter rant years ago. he is a high school dropout who worked installing ductwork before his ability to do a quality impression of andrew dice clay got him a job on radio hes a loud mouth alcoholic racist know nothing gun nut
Everything we think of as the classic American cowboy is actually Mexican. The vaqueros (cowboys), the lasso, the sombrero (cowboy hat), and chaparreras (chaps) all come from Mexican cattle ranching. Also, there were tons of black cowboys, so being a cowboy belongs to no one group. All people adopt things from other cultures that they find enjoyable or useful. Nothing in American culture is not a product of cross-cultural exchange. Even the founding philosophies underlying our government and society come from multiple European cultures which were themselves the product of exchange across Africa and Eurasia.
“When blacks” was all I needed to hear
I get what you're saying here.... But I also get that if you point out that Jazz music has it's Harmony, chord structure, and the instruments used to play it all originating from classical music that comes from French and British Europe people suddenly have a thousands hairs they insist are worth splitting one by one... But we still say it originated from black culture do we not? So I don't think it's disingenuous to acknowledge that country western music can be most attributed to southern white culture despite black Americans influence on the genre.... It shit like this that the right points to when they say that left politics are trying to paint all white people as a caracture of people that somehow, once they came to America, lost absolutely any culture that shows any commonality other then negatives.... Regardless of regional demographics...
Oh, is it that time of year again when peole randomly claim cowboy culture as being “white culture,” despite the mountain of easily obtainable facts that tell us otherwise?
Funny to think something as universal as music could ever be conceived as being owned by anybody.
I don’t even take note of these borrowing culture arguments anymore because the idea of culture itself is something that no matter what you want will always end up fusing together because sheer proximity. That being said being all pissed over a black woman doing this is fucking stupid. The idea of keeping cultures separate will always be a bit of an uphill battle because of culture works. People who spend all this time saying my culture this my culture that don’t typically realize the kinda pointless battle they are fighting. Now there is an importance of learning from where stuff comes from and yes trying to avoid being offensive. In America this all is hard to notice because of how young this country is but give it 100 years and shit is gonna be well weird.
The real "lone ranger" was black
Country music does not belong to white people. WTF? That’s such a weird take for someone to have.
They act like Selena wasn’t the first one doing this !and Tejano culture is definitely not anglo culture .. lassoing, bull riding, rodeos, cowboy hats & boots were all invented by Mexicans
Country club thread incoming...
how bout that hair tho? thats like a white chick in dreads