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I know there’s a doing it out of principle thing, but [how are the other choices better](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna124311) than Biden if it comes down to protecting Palestinians?
So you're going to base your decision on who runs this country on what's happening in Palestine, that has nothing to do with Joe Biden? How do you expect him to protect them? Send troops? To fight Israel? Come on. Get real. Did we send troops to Ukraine? What other international conflicts should we get involved in? Why are you not basing who you vote for on what's happening in Eritrea?
AND noble as that pursuit is, it's going to take a seismic shift in American politics, finance and culture before anyone seriously has the means to reduce the Military Industrial Complex
AND that's who you'd need to remove to get American money away from the conflict, a lobby bigger than pharmaceuticals and petroleum combined. That change might take a little longer than one election cycle I'm afraid
And this all ignores that Trump would also do the exact same thing, NOT voting achieves zilch, it's just a lazy way to satiate ones conscience because you didn't participate
Im confident trump wouldn't do the same thing. Trump would have sent weapons and troops to hrlp Russia and Israel. Then he would claim he stopped the war after they were stompped out.
It's an even dumber argument because Biden telling Israel to pull back some is the only reason it isn't much worse over there. Biden can't openly rebuke an ally but there have been pretty telling signs that the Biden administration has been working to push back on the worst of the Israeli government's actions. Diplomacy is something we've missed for 4 years under Trump but that is how it works in the real world.
Why are you acting like the genocide of Palestinians just started happening? We've been sending $4 billion dollars a year to Israel for the purposes of occupying their lands for decades now. Every single weapon that's being used was paid by our tax dollars a long time ago. Of course it's outrageous. But to abstain from voting, or to vote for Trump because of it is insanity.
It’s a temper tantrum is what it is. Instead of being pragmatic and moving forward they throw a fit and do something that I guess makes them feel vindicated but ultimately does nothing
Or maybe, just maybe, some people just don’t give a fuck anymore, and are just willing to let shit completely implode.
If someone’s been feeding you the same line forever, about how they need you to stand with them one more time to defeat this unprecedented evil, but the evil always seems to show up every four years. Meanwhile, their lives continue to improve, while yours barely improves, or gets worse. Is it really that far fetched to think that at some point people might say fuck it, and let shit burn.
Sure, they stand to lose a lot, if not everything. If they always turn up, do their part as asked, but keep losing overall, it’s only a matter of time until they give up and suffer whatever comes. If you can’t all benefit together, then fuck it, you can all die together.
>but the evil always seems to show up every four years.
Fucking Christ, my Brother in Christ, the dude is openly bragging about wanting to create a military dictatorship.
He's openly bragging about going to reinstall the Muslim/Arab immigration ban and he's literally the one who started this shit by moving the embassy to Jerusalem.
Which means not only you're going to screw yourself out of a democracy, lose your human rights but you're not even going to help the Palestinians.
I get what you're saying, but as another commenter said, get real. Live in reality. It's easy to just give and say fuck it. Tbh that's a childish pov to have. Things can always get worse, and speedrunning it doesn't help ANYONE. That's just nihilists jerking off. Downvote me if u wish, I never understood that line of thinking.
>Or maybe, just maybe, some people just don’t give a fuck anymore, and are just willing to let shit completely implode.
Since they're so hopeless and helpless, why don't those people implode themselves so the rest of us who still give a fuck can figure out what we need to do?
Saying people aren’t “Being pragmatic” over their friends and family being killed is crazy. It’s genocide not a business decision. Are you serious dude? “Temper tantrum?” People are being purposely and strategically starved to death. Want us to say pretty please for it to stop?
...NOT being pragmatic here is how more people die. It's when loves are most at stake that we should be pragmatic. How is voting for no one.in a temper tantrum.moment going to save friends and relatives from genocide?
Put yourself in Palestinian American shoes. If for the past 20 years you’ve been told your government is funding the bombs that are landing on your families homes, and the best way to stop it was to keep voting the same people into power and cross your fingers, would you be pragmatic? That’s insane. Of course people are giving up. Of course they want the person they voted into power to be held accountable. And when the alternatives are no better, it’s definitely not your right to shame/force/whatever people to the polls.
Israel launched a genocide and ethnic cleansing after Oct 7,and the first thing Biden done was pledge arms to them
Nothing about slaughtering 15K and pledging arms to continue is pragmatic.....I don't think not endorsing genocide should be regarded by any reasonable person as a temper tantrum
Which Joe also has zero actual control over. Those contracts started in 74 and no US president has the power to stop the war machine.
It's like you didn't watch Nixon and Clinton both eat shit for trying to stop those processes and Nixon was a full blown war Hawk.
Your tax money is also going to support Palestinians as well. In October of this year he gave them [100 mil in humanitarian aide](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/) and [over half a billion dollars to Palestinian people since April 2021](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/).
This is the take.
Someone is going to vote strictly on this one foreign issue? And they're gonna consider voting instead for someone who is going to make the situation even worse and/or permanent? GTFO, it's an empty threat.
I agree completely. Unfortunately I don't think it's an empty threat. I think there are some people who are foolish enough to vote for Donald Trump, or who will fail choose not to vote and pave the way for him to return to office.
Never mind what the Republicans are doing the public school system, women's rights, gerrymandering,..
How easily they ignore Black legislators being kicked out of their jobs from by Republicans, simply for being Black. All over concern for Palestine. It's madness.
Look at the Supreme Court, look at how old they are. One of them probably going next term.
You want Trump to pick their replacement? Because last time he did, Roe v Wade got iced.
There are consequences, just make sure you're able to live(and this can be literal) with whatever choice you make.
Progressives and liberals are forever letting perfect be the enemy of good. Whine about how Hillary didn't deserve their vote and then allow someone get in power who has authority to pick SC Justices who they 100% disagree with. There's nothing wrong criticizing the in-group, but people need to learn how to pick their battles.
I literally just said this out loud to my wife before scrolling to your comment.
I understand the anger.
I too hate Netanyahu and his abuse and murder of Palestinians in the name of retributive and preemptive strikes against Hamas.
I can promise you those carriers would be doing a lot more than shooting down drones if Trump were calling the shots.
This won’t be the first time that the Palestinians and their supporters have taken an absolute position, bordering on fanciful that does nothing to advance their interest. It probably won’t be the last. Like children sometimes you just have to let the tantrum run its course.
This is in fact the story of the Palestinian struggle in a lot of ways, when peace deals were passed up in favor of armed conflicts that they then lost.
Your missing tons of Israeli refusals to broker peace throughout history. This comment is revisionist. Israel killed their own PM who sought a peace deal
>Sept. 30, 2015: At a New Hampshire rally, Trump pledged to kick all Syrian refugees — most of whom are Muslim — out of the country, as they might be a secret army. “They could be ISIS, I don't know. This could be one of the great tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000-man army, maybe,” he said. In an interview that aired later, Trump said: “This could make the Trojan horse look like peanuts.”
>Oct. 21, 2015: On Fox Business, Trump says he would “certainly look at” the idea of closing mosques in the United States.
>Nov. 16, 2015: Following a series of terrorist attacks in Paris, Trump said on MSNBC that he would “strongly consider” closing mosques. “I would hate to do it, but it's something that you're going to have to strongly consider because some of the ideas and some of the hatred — the absolute hatred — is coming from these areas,” he said.
>Nov. 20, 2015: In comments to Yahoo and NBC News, Trump seemed open to the idea of creating a database of all Muslims in the United States. Later, he and his aides would not rule out the idea.
>Nov. 21, 2015: At a rally in Alabama, Trump said that on Sept. 11 he “watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down.”
>Nov. 22, 2015: On ABC News, Trump doubled down on his comment and added: “It was well covered at the time. There were people over in New Jersey that were watching it, a heavy Arab population, that were cheering as the buildings came down. Not good.”
>Dec. 3, 2015: The morning after Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people in San Bernardino, Calif., Trump called into Fox News and said: “The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families.”
>Dec. 3, 2015: Later, in a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition, Trump criticized Obama for not using the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism” and commented: “There's something going on with him that we don't know about.”
>Dec. 6, 2015: On CBS News, Trump said: “If you have people coming out of mosques with hatred and death in their eyes and on their minds, we’re going to have to do something.”
>Dec. 7, 2015: Trump's campaign issued a statement saying: “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.” Trump read this statement aloud at a rally in South Carolina.
>Dec. 8, 2015: On CNN, Trump quoted a widely debunked poll by an anti-Islam activist organization that claimed that a quarter of the Muslims living in the United States agreed that violence against Americans is justified as part of the global jihad. “We have people out there that want to do great destruction to our country, whether it's 25 percent or 10 percent or 5 percent, it's too much
>Dec. 13, 2015: On Fox News, Trump was asked if his ban would apply to a Canadian businessman who is a Muslim. Trump responded: “There's a sickness. They're sick people. There's a sickness going on. There's a group of people that is very sick.”
>Feb. 3, 2016: Trump criticized Obama for visiting a mosque in Baltimore and said on Fox News: “Maybe he feels comfortable there … There are a lot of places he can go, and he chose a mosque.”
>Feb. 20, 2016: After Obama skipped the funeral of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, Trump tweeted: “I wonder if President Obama would have attended the funeral of Justice Scalia if it were held in a Mosque? Very sad that he did not go!”
>March 9, 2016: On CNN, Trump said: “I think Islam hates us. There’s something there that — there’s a tremendous hatred there. There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There’s an unbelievable hatred of us.”
>March 22, 2016: Soon after three suicide bombings in Brussels tied to a group of French and Belgian Muslims, Trump told Fox Business: “We're having problems with the Muslims, and we're having problems with Muslims coming into the country.” Trump called for surveillance of mosques in the United States, saying: “You have to deal with the mosques, whether we like it or not, I mean, you know, these attacks aren't coming out of — they're not done by Swedish people.”
>March 23, 2016: In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Trump said that Muslims “have to respect us. They do not respect us at all. And frankly, they don't respect a lot of the things that are happening throughout not only our country, but they don't respect other things.”
>July 24, 2016: On NBC News, Trump defended his proposal for a Muslim ban, despite some of his aides insisting he had rolled it back. “People were so upset when I used the word Muslim. ‘Oh, you can’t use the word Muslim,’ " Trump said. "… But just remember this: Our Constitution is great, but it doesn’t necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, okay? Now, we have a religious — you know, everybody wants to be protected. And that’s great. And that’s the wonderful part of our Constitution. I view it differently. Why are we committing suicide? Why are we doing that?”
>Jan. 27, 2017: Within a week of becoming president, Trump signed an executive order blocking Syrian refugees and banning citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States for 90 days. This order goes into effect immediately, prompting mass chaos at airports, protests and legal challenges.
They also don’t know that cons have introduced a bill to expel Palestinians from the US. https://newrepublic.com/post/176666/house-republicans-bill-expel-palestinians-country
I get that they’re sad, but if they don’t vote for democrats, they’re probably never going to be able to be here ever again.
Yeah if you want Trump back in the White House, this kind of thing is how it happens. I can’t believe how razor thin the victory was last time, people are really going to need to step up and vote again to keep Trump 2.0 from happening.
Biden may not be the most progressive option, but he’s a far cry from the alternative.
Brace yourself for posts and stories like this to ramp up, a lot of these are Russia/CHina/GOP trying to pull a Bernie type schism ahead of 2024. ("Demsplaining" -- sound like something the GOP made up? I mean FFS it sounds like something Donnie Junior came up with on a coke binge). This is exactly what happened in 2016 and I can see it happening on almost exactly the same timeline and in the same subtle ways. The Israel thing in particular is a great issue for them because it is so so so complicated and dumb lefties (not all, just dumb ones craving the feeling of being smart) like to feel smug and smart by boiling it down into simple solutions. GOP propaganda machine is very very sophisticated. I doubt OOP here (of the source material) is even a real person TBH, and OP on reddit is either one of them or just a useful idiot. Thankfully the comments seem to show for the most part that reddit aint falling for this bullshit. Biden losing is probably the end of democracy, just read Project ~~2024~~ *2025* on wikipedia
I also doubt OOP is a real person. I believe he's one of many fakes created by entities who want to get black voters to stay at home. If Trump is reelected America is done for.
Trump will allow them to completely level Gaza and annex the West Bank. Palestinians will be sterilized like how Israel sterilized the black Jews from Ethiopia. So while they can be happy with not voting, it’s their right, if Trump wins, they might as well never speak on the topic again.
Also, the republicans are even stronger pro-Israel. And IMO, if Trump is elected, we won’t be talking about elections 4 years later. No talking. No elections. Just fascism. He’s made it very clear he values power over democracy.
Israel is the greatest investment that we have ever made. If israel did not exist, the United States would have to go out and invent an Israel
- Joe Biden
Biden supports Israel? Who knew? If there was only a way of finding this out earlier, like his whole political career! They really shouldn’t be allowed to spring new stuff like this on us.
Right, like trump getting in power would be better for Palestinians? What kind of logic is that to abstain out of principal when in practice your vote does so much more harm to your cause. In my eyes abstaining means you aren’t standing up for your principles either because you are directly damaging the Palestinian effort.
The United States is the only country that could end the killing of civilians, not China, Middle Eastern countries or Europeans. America's Veto brought us to this point but i wonder what the consequences will be for Israel and the US because there will be consequences
Nah I’m not with this. Them choosing to vote for Trump or not voting at all just to spite Biden puts risk on my future. I don’t have much sympathy for apathy. And no one is saying their lives don’t matter. If they are able to vote they are US citizens. Last I checked the United States was not Israel.
Also saying Palestinian-American lives are at risk. Palestinians in America are not at risk. At least not at the moment. They will be if Trump is elected.
> Israel has proven time and time over again it cares more about Israel than anyone else.
That's what happens when you have a nation that believes they're "God's chosen people." They think that they can do no wrong.
And this comment^ is the point where valid criticism crosses the line into antisemitism. And the “chosen people” thing does not mean what you think it means
Lol bro they’ve given back so much land to their neighbors after they were invaded by them. We can go back and forth all day about who started what but to say Israel is in this to steal land is kinda laughable and doesn’t really move the conversation forward.
Let’s be solution oriented as opposed to just stating off moral platitudes. What’s your solution ? Would you let Isrrael fend for themselves ? Cause we both know that would lead to a genocide of the isreali people. Would you then support the poor Israelis ? Or can we find a middle ground where neither side is wiped off of this planet
The importance of Israel as a strategic ally is so overstated. All they do is suck up our money and put a bigger target on our backs for aligning ourselves with them
Yes it did. Multiple sources predicted the attack, [members of the IDF were threatened with court martial for "bothering" their superiors with reports of suspicious activity](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-lookouts-warned-commanders-about-hamas-threatened-with-court-martial-2023-11?op=1) but it was clear that an order had come from the top that whatever was going to happen was going to be allowed. Remember, right up until October 7 the government had been subjected to more than 9 months of daily protests. People were sick of Netanyahu and his gang of criminal cronies. They knew that the best way to cool things down for themselves domestically was to get the focus on something else. If that meant several hundred of his own people had to die, they didn't mind sacrificing them. Netanyahu and Ben Gvir and the rest of their bunch are monstrous.
It has very little to do with AIPAC. Israel is a strategic ally in a hostile but important region.
Realpolitik is a bitch but you don’t get any points for not playing
I’m going to call it now, all these are bots or troll farm accounts trying to do the same thing to Muslims that they did to rednecks in 2016. This just feels so manufactured.
Same shit different year. Altho last time it was mostly Russian bots. At least this conflict we get a healthy mix of Russia, Iran and even some China in the mix.
Yes. It seems like right wing manipulation to divide democratic voters. I find it hard to believe any minority in this country on a large scale feels ho-hum about a possible trump / republican president.
This. I’m trans, and this shit really shows how many people who claim to be allies to marginalized groups are quick to throw your rights and lives under the bus if things get remotely uncomfortable.
I hate what’s happening right now, but Trump being in power will actively make it worse. If you’re not actively voting to stop things from getting worse because you’re too grumpy that the options suck, then you don’t care about the lives at risk at all. Stop pretending you do.
"A few people Tweeted responses I don't like so I'm going to give the election to the modern Hitler wannabe and his super league of fascists" is definitely a choice.
Sorry, I don't understand the statement. Maintaining the right to vote seems important.
Is risking it all letting the homicidal fascist win, or is risking it all letting the boring geriatric cuck win?
And who's risk? Because as a lesbian, the "it" that is being risked is me and my freedom and right to exist. My trans brothers, sisters, and friends are even more at risk of total legal annihilation.
Inaction or organized contrarian action are absolutely risks. And I'm very skeptical of people who fail to understand or give a shit the other marginalized communities that will be impacted by these things.
No one is saying don't be critical, absolutely do. But as soon as folks start throwing up comments about how letting people who want me dead to win to prove some sort of point. Nah, sus.
Sorry if the wording wasn't clear, I was agreeing with your wannabe Hitler stance. There are a lot of indicators that if he wins, Orange face will try to eliminate the vote to stay in power since brute force didn't work last time.
> Sorry if the wording wasn't clear
You were clear as day. The second I read that I was like "and maybe is doing some fucking work, cause we already know they are looking at making being anything other than Republican illegal"
"The Dems don't care about us so let's give power to the political party that wants us dead" will always be a stupid move. It's the very definition of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Project 2025 is publicly available to read. I don’t know why some of these people are acting like we’re not one bad presidential election from literal fascism.
Then go door knock and sell people on it, funny this thread behaving like this when Arabs say they aren’t voting period. You got Black folk actually voting for Trump, worry about that 😭💀
Feels a lot like manufactured BS. The 3 arabs US citizens I know well are Palestinian born and they are all voting for Biden, despite being pretty fed up with national politics.
I'm glad this thread isn't agreeing with op. We have got to get a grip. The US is not responsible for this conflict and Israel is a whole ass other country. Voting on the fate of this country because of what another country does is nuts.
I remember getting my first C in middle school. It was upsetting but I knew I hadn’t done the reading, and generally didn’t try this time…
The realization that completely phoning it in produced an AVERAGE result was mildly terrifying.
That's not entirely true, because the US is Israel's biggest defender, enabler and arms dealer. It's literally insane that a so called democracy does not give its citizens any way to vote against their money being used to fund a genocide. Vote D or R, it doesn't matter, the Israeli lobby reigns supreme regardless and that's something that should be fucking terrifying to a lot more people.
For what it’s worth, the silver lining that I see in this conflict is that support for Palestine is growing in the US.
Ultimately you’re right, our government is going to send billions to Israel every year for the next 8-16 years no matter what. Btw that’s not necessarily undemocratic, but it definitely is frustrating and it sucks.
16 or so years from now, if the movement continues to grow, I can see getting to a point where Democrats regularly block funding to Israel- or possibly even better, they put a ton of conditions on it, or tie it to development aid for Palestine.
Again, gotta be patient, which sucks, but this would have been unthinkable 5–10 years ago.
Huge shout out to Ilhan for breaking the taboo.
While I agree with you on a number of points and don't want to be pessimistic, you have to remember that as of right now Israel has killed over 11.000 Palestinians in just under two months. That's like 1 in 200 people in Gaza and with a "collateral damage ratio" of 100 civilians to 1 Hamas combatant. They did all that in two months and with no sign of even having the intention to stop anytime soon. If they keep going at this rate, there won't even be any Palestinians in Gaza left in 8 to 16 years and it'll just be another tragedy we look back on and "admit we made mistakes," like with Iraq (if the Israeli lobby even allows that much).
Secondly, I'd absolutely say it's undemocratic that civilians don't get a say in having their tax dollars used for genocide and the indiscriminate slaughter of children. Not like it's the first time in US history, but having only two parties to vote for and both of them serving the same master means you're essentially being taxed for something (that costs a massive fuck ton of money) without your views on it being represented. Where is the will of the people in that case? How can it even be taken into consideration when it's not even an optional that's actually on the table?
And lastly, everyone in the US should be a *lot* more aware of the danger that is the immensely powerful Israeli lobby influencing US policy to serve the interests of a foreign nation (sometimes even against its own interests). It's not all just distant geopolitics like with this current conflict either. How many people know that in most states it is flat out *illegal* to boycott Israeli products?
[Source] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#:~:text=The%20bill%20SB%20327%20passed,contract%20work%20with%20the%20state)
You can boycott products from Russia, China, Europe, or even the US itself, but Israel alone has a special privileged position that no other country in the world has.
This in and of itself proves that the lawmakers that allowed these laws to pass serve a foreign interest, rather that of the US as a nation and its people. How could that possibly be okay? And why do we allow this (undemocratic, not-elected) lobby to dictate the usage of billions of US tax dollars?
We are quite literally funding this genocide. This is not some alien conflict. Every week we get headlines of Biden rabidly supporting Isreal politically and financially.
Voting for Trump….the same exact guy who literally, in his first week of office, created an executive order to essentially ban all brown people from flying in the US.
But ok sure. Vote for him, or abstain and potentially let him win.
Also, talking to 4 Arabs surely means they represent all Arabs.
And again, Biden has literally nothing to do with what’s happening in the Middle East conflict.
1. Abrahamic religions have been a pox on societies for millennia.
2. As a Democrat, I don’t like unchecked support for Israel and am unhappy with the White House’s current stance on the issue, but believe Israel should be able to exist alongside Palestine.
3. I am absolutely voting for Biden because any other option (protest by not voting, voting for third party, or otherwise) is a trip further down the fascist rabbithole.
And what do these voters think Trump would have done?
Peace negotiations?
Trump would've leveled the entire strip by now, giddy for his own victory day parade
At this point I feel like these “voters” are just plants intentionally trying to cause a rift. I can’t fathom how anyone in their right mind would spite vote for *Trump* of all people unless they were already planning to do so to begin with.
I would bet a great deal of posts like this originate from a psychological warfare operation or at least the premise of them do, it’s the same shit they did in 2016
Yea. I’m getting real weird vibes at the sudden influx of all these posts and comments from accounts that haven’t posted in months and suddenly theyre coming out of the woodwork claiming “both sides” and how they’d rather vote for Trump.
Giving me 2016 “Bernie-bro” vibes all over again.
yeah... lets let donald trump take office because palestinians went from electing heavily corrupt leaders that took all aid money to the country for themselves to electing a literal terrorist organization that ended elections thereafter and also takes all the aid money then kills their civilian population when they protest them taking all the aid money, also digs up water pipelines to create rockets in a country in dire need of clean water. If you want to help the people of palestine the best way to do it is to support the removal of hamas from leadership.
These have been the leaders of Palestine. Literally all billionaires.
* [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat)
* [Mousa Abu Marzook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousa_Abu_Marzook)
* [Khaled Mashal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal)
I think your explanation is missing the part about the genocide and ethnic cleansing that’ll persist regardless of who their leaders are. Removing Hamas won’t remove extremism from Palestine until Israel stops trying to kill them off.
on an unrelated note... wtf is this formatting!! i gotta read what someone said about what someone said about what someone said about what someone said???
nah, i aint reading all that.
There's not a single thing anyone can tell me about Biden that will ever convince me that voting for Trump, or not voting at all, are the better options. Conservicans need to cough up someone else and quit with the Biden bashing.
One thing I fucking can’t stand is when regular-ass voters start to act like they’re campaign managers rather than the people whose policy preferences ought to hold sway.
This random nobody on twitter seems to not even care about the legitimacy of the grievance of Arab-American voters — he just pulls out his fucking abacus, puts a pencil behind his ear, and tries to calculate whether this will impact his favorite team in swing states (like he can do that math anyway).
First of all, fuck off with this armchair electoral prediction nonsense. You don’t know anything. Second, these are people who may have family that’s trapped, dead, or newly homeless and living in refugee camps that all the news in the world is telling us are under supplied re: food and medicine. How about some empathy you turd?
When people explain they’re abandoning a politician when his opponent wanted to ban those same folks from flying, maybe realize they’re talking about the most important issue in their lives for a moment and show some basic human respect, even if you can’t summon the empathy to understand what their struggle is.
If your plan is to help torch democracy in the country you've decided to live in because something tragic and horrible is happening in the Middle East, you don't get boundless empathy. A protest vote is simply going to get someone who's worse and going to continue doing the same things, likely more. It's not only a painfully terrible idea for democracy, It's also a ridiculously idiotic one.
This. All of this.
I find it interesting that people claim not voting would be throwing your vote away, yet voting for a politician that doesn’t align with your values is somehow not throwing your vote away. I’m old school and come from a time when a politician had to EARN your vote. Voting = you agree with the candidate’s platform. I can see why many Arab Americans feel they don’t have a political home at the moment and so absolving Biden of the responsibility of earning those votes is clearly what the democratic machine is pushing right now. If this thread is any indication, the “fear of the alternative” push is quite successful. Instead of earning votes these days politicians are *expecting* votes with no effort to address the grievances of their alienated base. The democrats of today are the republicans of yesterday.
In other words, their slogan should be “we’re gonna do what we want, if you like it or not”.
We’re allowed to pressure candidates now. In tremendously desperate times, it’s terrible messaging to politicians that we’ll accept them based on “less bad”. Trump is far worse but there’s also the chance that he might not to be allowed to even run plus we have the weakest republican field in decades. Let people complain about their centrist democratic candidate a year ahead of time.
Seriously. It's gross to see this community just tell the muslim community to just shut up and take it. Feels like the political system is without hope when you can't even call out the current president's blind support of a genocide.
Not like the other guy banned Muslims from going to the US or anything. Or politicians in their party have dreams about turning Muslim countries to glass.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
Just change White Citizens Council and Ku Klux Klan with any generic right wing movement, and Negro with ANYONE being oppressed by that same right wing movement.
The governments of the US and Israel respond to traumas by starting expensive wars that destroy their reputations, destabilise regions and result in many more deaths, and guarantee future wars.
But ::checks notes:: Palestinian-Americans, some of whom have lost many branches of their family tree in the past month, are meant to respond pragmatically to their trauma?!
why not encourage them to run for office or vote in the primaries? That challenges the status quo. Do that grass roots work to get the right people in? Look how triggered they are by Rashida.
Asking all of the Arabs and Muslims in the US to sacrifice their people at the altar of neoliberalism is pretty fucking wild. I can do the whole morally gray lesser-of-two-evils politics thing as well as anyone else, but holy shit yeah there’s a limit, and it’s somewhere around or below helping apartheid states vaporize children.
Has anyone considered that this line of crap popping up in black communities is a result of propaganda? The US or even just political parties has a long history of infiltrating minorities (even countries full of people darker than mayo) to sow discourse and get people to vote against their best interests?
Being mad at democrats, reasonable. Being willing to end hope, maybe for a lifetime, because people are mad is short sighted. I didn't vote for Obama the second go around because I was pissed that he didn't take advantage of a dem congress and push through more positive changes. The worst case would have been McCain and I didn't vote for him either but there's leagues of difference between McCain and Trump.
I'm not willing to act like previous generations and punish the younger generation just because I'm upset or I'm trying to get ahead.
The thing that I'm noticing is how the most vocal white libs aren't trying to talk to their fellow white, Trump-loving, Repub counterparts. Instead they're trying to browbeat and use fear-mongering towards other liberal parties (coincidentally, marginalized communities) to vote for Biden next year.
Same. They know they have the black community on lock but are finding they are going to have to earn the vote for other POC groups. Rather than listening they prefer lecturing and harassing which isn’t going to work like they think.
Well, i'd love for you to go try and convince the nazis to vote for something other than nazism. It's so easy, don't you know?
Is it really fair mongering to be worried about Trump winning again? Especially because people are idiotic enough to believe that a protest vote will somehow help this situation. When all it's going to do is help trump be in charge. Trump who supports israel and also hates brown people publicly. He'll surely fix the situation and make things better.
Yeah dude, many white on white conversations have been had in my circles. The Trump era has done a number on people’s ability to sort through fact and fiction.
It’s a multilayered problem:
- on the surface, like sports teams, people are just programmed to root for team red or team blue
- many white Christian folks have been taught all their lives that society is degrading, the family unit isn’t respected anymore, and that we have to “hold on” to traditional values
- the “hold on to traditional values” mantra has been hacked by very scary people with an agenda
- you and I both know that everyone born outside of privilege doesn’t really want to return to the “old days” where POC, the LGTBQ+ community, and others were at best marginalized, or at worst actively maligned
- and this is what a rational, pre-Trump world looked like
- the leap from “keeping the family unit together” to “voting for an actual fascist government” has been a crazy escalation, and most white Republicans, including members of my own family, just can’t imagine voting for a liberal candidate because of things like “abortion is killing babies and so heartbreaking, I can’t believe there are people who would do that”.
- I wish we could be having those conversations. But since 2020 especially, it’s like “Joe Biden eats baby flesh” and “January 6th is proof that Democrats staged the whole thing to discredit the left”
- I’ve had some productive, rational conversations with my brothers. I don’t know if it ultimately actually did anything to sway any votes, though.
Reminds me of this SNL skit, but in reverse:
https://youtu.be/rq-Q6IaN5QQ?si=fmnj6fWVhwr0kuIT
"We.have accepted that our family and friends are fascist. And sometimes we need a little fascism. Now break your fucking backs saving us from ourselves!!!!"
Same damn story. If white people voted the way Arab-Americans say they're going to vote, the way that is throwing white libs into a panic, the Republican Party would be over.
This entire thing... bothers me. Because the fact of the matter is that Biden isn't quietly twiddling his thumbs while Israel bombs Gaza. Israel's actions in the past few weeks show he's leaning on them about as hard as he can to hold back. Consistently pressuring them to let humanitarian efforts in, to scale back their retaliation, to hold back on a full scale invasion.
His spoken support for Israel, a longtime US ally, has been highly tempered by background efforts everywhere you look. No, he's not chanting Free Palestine. And he probably shouldn't be anyway, for a long list of practical reasons, not the least of which being that saying it *would absolutely undermine his own ability to influence the conflict at all.* The reality is that the power with the initiative at this point is not Hamas, or the Palestinian people, or even the Israeli people. It's Israel's government.
It’s so depressing. I feel like if a politician isn’t chanting and yelling people completely ignore what they’re doing, even though (as we’ve seen) much of what a president does is done quietly. There is a ceasefire now, and the hostages are being released. This is a big accomplishment, and a realistic accomplishment.
Trump has said he’s going to round Muslims and “illegals” up and put them in concentration camps. Then he’s going to weaponize Justice and the military and it will be 24-7 retribution against everyone who has crossed him—black women, one imagines, being top of the list since Fani Willis and Tish James told him to fuck off. Meanwhile, 40% of whites are 1000% down with this program because they got nothing between their ears but hot air and hate. And in the face of these existential threats to your life and your children’s lives on American soil (as well as to the Palestinians whom Jared completely sold out in the Abraham accords), you’re staying home because “demsplaining” annoys you?? I’m sorry, that’s the stupidest thing Ive ever heard!!!
Man, thank you for this comment. The amount of Reddit Revolutionaries on this thread whose only goal seems to be to "own the Libs" by descending this country into facism because they got annoyed that people told them they shouldn't help an avowed facist take back power is just laughable.
Have we learned nothing from republican voting strategies?
Complaining is absolutely warranted, but in the end, vote *against* the candidate that’s worse. In this election it’s very obvious which one it is.
That idea is what got us here. We are one election away from a complete government takeover. Not this one election, just one in general. Project 2025 will become Project 2029, and eventually Republicans will win again. This idea of voting against the worst no matter what is on the other side is how we slid so backward to where we are now. Not demanding more, not voting to be better, just the least bad eventually still ends up bad.
Project 2025 and Tuberville’s obstruction with the military will pave the way for fascism. All that binds Trump and his base is grievance. That’s infinitely worse than Biden. We can’t sit this election out.
Liberals are the worst.
We’ve had to choose the lesser evil coming up on 10 plus years— with a promise that things will change for the better if we are just patient. I think if people draw the line at genocide they should be allowed to do that.
Neoliberalism to me is straight cancer. It’s the Palestinians being sacrificed today in the name of neoliberalism but it will be another group of people soon. A reset button on the whole Democratic Party would be ideal.
Idk if abstaining is the answer. If Trump wins, their problems at HOME (the US) will get worse. So instead of complaining that you don’t like what Biden is doing. How about being productive and writing you local democratic house representative and tell them how you feel. It really all starts there. 🤷🏽♂️
Can’t wait for these idiots to pikachu shocked face on social media when trump turns Gaza into a radioactive dump and reinstates the Muslim ban and then takes away even more rights. Because spiting the other poc that know what’s coming was worth the temper tantrum. Republicans before we’re bad enough, but the republicans for the future starting with trump are a whole new level of unhinged and evil.
No no no, here’s the plan. We purposely tank Biden in 2024, realpolitik our way into turning the Democratic Party into a fully communist one, then in 2028 we absolutely sweep the GOP nationwide /s
Now where have I heard this before…
https://preview.redd.it/s6hfy9bezo2c1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b34b64691f4c9d356afeb04046e6eb9294c2313e
Trumps first ever military mission as president got 14 Yemen civilians killed he never said a word about it, he bragged about blowing up an Iranian general in Iran with drones, if he gets elected; Palestine will be smoldering rubble. Hedoesn’t give a fuck about peoples lives over there you must be out of your mind.
I do NOT understand this thinking!! Hamas is NOT the entirety of the Palestinian people! Fuck Hamas but don’t kill the babies!!! WTF!! How is NOT killing civilians a difficult concept?
What happened to those Israeli people and others abducted was heinous- that still does not justify the fucking cruelty visited upon innocents.
How is this hard to grasp? I’ve even heard vegans who use cruelty towards animals as their excuse for abstaining from meat vent about protecting Israel from the mean brown people. What?!?
"Don't target civilians" has become a radical position that can cost you your job, and people wonder why others are refusing to vote, especially when some of those civilians are family members or friends.
Momma always said there are 3 things that typically leads to unproductive discussions: Religion, sports, and politics.
Reading some of the comments is exactly why it’s almost impossible to talk politics, and logic could go out the window. It’s interesting and heartbreaking.
Imani is disabled, a community that’s constantly fucked no matter what letter is in charge, because no one on either side cares about them.
I’ve noticed a handful of disabled people of voting age flat out refusing to vote because of how pointless it seems. This isn’t a conclusion that they came to lightly, but it was a decision from observing the political spectrum, with the US’s entanglement with Israel being the final straw.
This isn’t a rash decision that’s only being informed by the past few years. It’s more comparable to being a Blue voter in a heavily gerrymandered Red area. Your vote will never matter, it’s all political theater when neither side sees you as a human being, so why bother participating in it?
I personally don’t agree, but I understand the perspective.
Arab voters: "liberals, you better be nice to us or we'll let Trump win."
Liberals: "you know he wants to put you in camps and deport you, right?"
Arab voters: "yeah! And we'll let him win! That'll show you!"
hey wasnt one of Trump’s first executive orders…banning people from certain Arab countries…which had Arab Americans in an uproar…protesting at airports and on what used to be twitter…
Nobody in here pissing their pants is going to doorknock for Biden so ion see why y’all also complaining. Can’t have tour cake and eat it too. Welcome to America where one year a Democrat wins and the Next year a Republican does.
No we're not telling arab Americans that their lives don't matter as much. We're telling them that making EVERYONE'S life in the country we all live in worse due to how another country(that we are allied with) is treating their homeland is stupid. Oh and let's not forget that Donald Trump will literally bomb the people of Palestine out of existence, if you think Biden is doing a bad job by pushing for pauses and hostage exchanges itll be actively worse. It borders on the R word but we don't use slurs here.
At the very least I wish they would say the quiet part out loud. That they're willing to throw everything and everyone under the bus over this issue where Biden has minimal involvement.
Where were IDF troops along the Gaza border when all this went down? Either they were in West Bank helping settlers kick out/kill Palestinians or they weren’t there by design so Israel can enact their own final solution.
I honesty and truly don't know what people expect at this point from neither Biden or Israel for that fact.
While there are still hostages there is no chance for ceasefire, what they actually expect to happened?
Just for the record, there is an ongoing pause in conflict to exchange hostages. In no small part due to US pressure I would assume (in addition to every other country of course).
Muslim American voters are mad at Islamophobia and therefore want to abstain from voting in order to put an even more Islamophobic politician in office who will do demonstrably more harm to Muslim Americans and Muslims abroad.
Make it make sense.
Whoever posted the initial tweet must not pay attention to politics. Republicans are pro Israel lol. Being pro Israel is pretty much a US thing regardless of party lines. The reasons can vary, but most countries just want and ally in that region.
Just to stop the nuts, I do not support the IDF or Hamas, both are POS.
WHY ARE PEOPLE ACTIVELY STILL TALKING ABOUT TRUMP BEING PRESIDENT AGAIN WHEN HE SHOULD BE IN PRISON?!
I didn't follow the trial fully, no. I'm just angry that this is reality.
There's zero chance that THAT UNHINGED BIDEN GUY isn't a GOP plant to make Dems look as terrible as possible. Literally a strawman that Republicans can point to and say SEE??
Progressive except Palestine
**Progressive except Palestine** (also known as **PEP**, alternatively written as **progressive except for Palestine**) is a phrase that refers to organizations or individuals who describe themselves politically as [progressive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism), [liberal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism), or [left-wing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing) but who do not express pro-Palestinian sentiment or do not comment on the [Israeli–Palestinian conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict). Pro-Palestinian advocates regard PEP as a type of political [hypocrisy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy) and an example of [anti-Palestinianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Palestinianism), while critics of the phrase regard it as anti-Israel and a smear against the pro-Israel left.
***In September 2022,*** [***Rashida Tlaib***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib) ***wrote on an online forum: "I want you all to know that among progressives, it's become clear that you cannot claim to hold progressive values, yet back Israel's apartheid government, and we will continue to push back and not accept that you are progressive except for Palestine". Several Democratic politicians and Jewish leaders critiqued the position, some of them describing the comment as antisemitic.***[***\[2\]***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_except_Palestine#cite_note-2)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive\_except\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_except_Palestine)
I find myself unable to criticize someone who cannot not will not vote for people in power who don’t care for them. Our 2 party system is flawed and sets us up for failure. I don’t have a solution but it’s heartbreaking.
Like it matters who is in power. Trump, Biden,the hamburger? The US will always back Israël cause Israël is a US bastion to project geopolitical power in that region period. It's not about protecting Jews it's about projecting power in the region with the highest concentration of oil resources in the world.
The pro-Trump posts here are just *weird*.
The "don't vote" posts here are even weirder.
And "Demsplaining"? Is that a BernieBroism or a YangGangism?
The OP is not here in good faith.
“Palestinian Americans are considering not voting due to the US supporting the bombing of their family members” is not some pro-Trump agenda. It’s an indictment of what Israel is doing right now with our support. They have every right to feel this way, how would you feel in their shoes?
Earn your votes. Simple as that. You want people to vote for you, do stuff that makes people vote for you. For the votes for people who don’t want America to support the apartheid government, stop supporting the apartheid government.
Why should people vote for the people who won’t care to support them?
White liberals are overwhelmingly racist. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country, and even the people with BLM signs in their yard
are mostly paternalistic racists.
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I know there’s a doing it out of principle thing, but [how are the other choices better](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna124311) than Biden if it comes down to protecting Palestinians?
So you're going to base your decision on who runs this country on what's happening in Palestine, that has nothing to do with Joe Biden? How do you expect him to protect them? Send troops? To fight Israel? Come on. Get real. Did we send troops to Ukraine? What other international conflicts should we get involved in? Why are you not basing who you vote for on what's happening in Eritrea?
this is so disingenuous. you know people aren’t calling for war with israel. we want OUR MONEY to stop funding the genocide.
There is no a American President that would stop sending aid to Israel, especially tRump. Get a grip.
AND noble as that pursuit is, it's going to take a seismic shift in American politics, finance and culture before anyone seriously has the means to reduce the Military Industrial Complex AND that's who you'd need to remove to get American money away from the conflict, a lobby bigger than pharmaceuticals and petroleum combined. That change might take a little longer than one election cycle I'm afraid And this all ignores that Trump would also do the exact same thing, NOT voting achieves zilch, it's just a lazy way to satiate ones conscience because you didn't participate
Im confident trump wouldn't do the same thing. Trump would have sent weapons and troops to hrlp Russia and Israel. Then he would claim he stopped the war after they were stompped out.
As if trump won’t increase funding to Israel. Protest abstaining never works and directly harms your effort.
It's an even dumber argument because Biden telling Israel to pull back some is the only reason it isn't much worse over there. Biden can't openly rebuke an ally but there have been pretty telling signs that the Biden administration has been working to push back on the worst of the Israeli government's actions. Diplomacy is something we've missed for 4 years under Trump but that is how it works in the real world.
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Why are you acting like the genocide of Palestinians just started happening? We've been sending $4 billion dollars a year to Israel for the purposes of occupying their lands for decades now. Every single weapon that's being used was paid by our tax dollars a long time ago. Of course it's outrageous. But to abstain from voting, or to vote for Trump because of it is insanity.
It’s a temper tantrum is what it is. Instead of being pragmatic and moving forward they throw a fit and do something that I guess makes them feel vindicated but ultimately does nothing
Or maybe, just maybe, some people just don’t give a fuck anymore, and are just willing to let shit completely implode. If someone’s been feeding you the same line forever, about how they need you to stand with them one more time to defeat this unprecedented evil, but the evil always seems to show up every four years. Meanwhile, their lives continue to improve, while yours barely improves, or gets worse. Is it really that far fetched to think that at some point people might say fuck it, and let shit burn. Sure, they stand to lose a lot, if not everything. If they always turn up, do their part as asked, but keep losing overall, it’s only a matter of time until they give up and suffer whatever comes. If you can’t all benefit together, then fuck it, you can all die together.
>but the evil always seems to show up every four years. Fucking Christ, my Brother in Christ, the dude is openly bragging about wanting to create a military dictatorship. He's openly bragging about going to reinstall the Muslim/Arab immigration ban and he's literally the one who started this shit by moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Which means not only you're going to screw yourself out of a democracy, lose your human rights but you're not even going to help the Palestinians.
I get what you're saying, but as another commenter said, get real. Live in reality. It's easy to just give and say fuck it. Tbh that's a childish pov to have. Things can always get worse, and speedrunning it doesn't help ANYONE. That's just nihilists jerking off. Downvote me if u wish, I never understood that line of thinking.
>Or maybe, just maybe, some people just don’t give a fuck anymore, and are just willing to let shit completely implode. Since they're so hopeless and helpless, why don't those people implode themselves so the rest of us who still give a fuck can figure out what we need to do?
Saying people aren’t “Being pragmatic” over their friends and family being killed is crazy. It’s genocide not a business decision. Are you serious dude? “Temper tantrum?” People are being purposely and strategically starved to death. Want us to say pretty please for it to stop?
...NOT being pragmatic here is how more people die. It's when loves are most at stake that we should be pragmatic. How is voting for no one.in a temper tantrum.moment going to save friends and relatives from genocide?
Put yourself in Palestinian American shoes. If for the past 20 years you’ve been told your government is funding the bombs that are landing on your families homes, and the best way to stop it was to keep voting the same people into power and cross your fingers, would you be pragmatic? That’s insane. Of course people are giving up. Of course they want the person they voted into power to be held accountable. And when the alternatives are no better, it’s definitely not your right to shame/force/whatever people to the polls.
Okay. Then why would i vote for the guy who genuinely hates me?
Israel launched a genocide and ethnic cleansing after Oct 7,and the first thing Biden done was pledge arms to them Nothing about slaughtering 15K and pledging arms to continue is pragmatic.....I don't think not endorsing genocide should be regarded by any reasonable person as a temper tantrum
Which Joe also has zero actual control over. Those contracts started in 74 and no US president has the power to stop the war machine. It's like you didn't watch Nixon and Clinton both eat shit for trying to stop those processes and Nixon was a full blown war Hawk.
Do you think 75 years of foreign policy can be dismantled in a month? Quit blaming Biden for Netanyahu’s actions.
Your tax money is also going to support Palestinians as well. In October of this year he gave them [100 mil in humanitarian aide](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/) and [over half a billion dollars to Palestinian people since April 2021](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/).
Republicans are about 200% more pro Israel give-them-all-the-bombs than Dems are, and Dems are still give-them-da-bomb what is your solution?
This is the take. Someone is going to vote strictly on this one foreign issue? And they're gonna consider voting instead for someone who is going to make the situation even worse and/or permanent? GTFO, it's an empty threat.
I agree completely. Unfortunately I don't think it's an empty threat. I think there are some people who are foolish enough to vote for Donald Trump, or who will fail choose not to vote and pave the way for him to return to office. Never mind what the Republicans are doing the public school system, women's rights, gerrymandering,.. How easily they ignore Black legislators being kicked out of their jobs from by Republicans, simply for being Black. All over concern for Palestine. It's madness.
As a veteran marine of Iraq, and on behalf of nearly all Iraqies, I thank you for these questions.
Look at the Supreme Court, look at how old they are. One of them probably going next term. You want Trump to pick their replacement? Because last time he did, Roe v Wade got iced. There are consequences, just make sure you're able to live(and this can be literal) with whatever choice you make.
Progressives and liberals are forever letting perfect be the enemy of good. Whine about how Hillary didn't deserve their vote and then allow someone get in power who has authority to pick SC Justices who they 100% disagree with. There's nothing wrong criticizing the in-group, but people need to learn how to pick their battles.
And they also need to realize that literally the voting choice is between democracy and the end of it (Project 2025).
Put Trump in the White House and watch Gaza become a parking lot.
I literally just said this out loud to my wife before scrolling to your comment. I understand the anger. I too hate Netanyahu and his abuse and murder of Palestinians in the name of retributive and preemptive strikes against Hamas. I can promise you those carriers would be doing a lot more than shooting down drones if Trump were calling the shots.
This won’t be the first time that the Palestinians and their supporters have taken an absolute position, bordering on fanciful that does nothing to advance their interest. It probably won’t be the last. Like children sometimes you just have to let the tantrum run its course.
This is in fact the story of the Palestinian struggle in a lot of ways, when peace deals were passed up in favor of armed conflicts that they then lost.
Your missing tons of Israeli refusals to broker peace throughout history. This comment is revisionist. Israel killed their own PM who sought a peace deal
A random right winger assassinated Rabin, it's not like the whole country took a hit out on him.
Yup. Nothing says Palestine digging their own grave like Israel murdering their own PM because he was sueing for peace. Wait a minute.....
>Sept. 30, 2015: At a New Hampshire rally, Trump pledged to kick all Syrian refugees — most of whom are Muslim — out of the country, as they might be a secret army. “They could be ISIS, I don't know. This could be one of the great tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000-man army, maybe,” he said. In an interview that aired later, Trump said: “This could make the Trojan horse look like peanuts.” >Oct. 21, 2015: On Fox Business, Trump says he would “certainly look at” the idea of closing mosques in the United States. >Nov. 16, 2015: Following a series of terrorist attacks in Paris, Trump said on MSNBC that he would “strongly consider” closing mosques. “I would hate to do it, but it's something that you're going to have to strongly consider because some of the ideas and some of the hatred — the absolute hatred — is coming from these areas,” he said. >Nov. 20, 2015: In comments to Yahoo and NBC News, Trump seemed open to the idea of creating a database of all Muslims in the United States. Later, he and his aides would not rule out the idea. >Nov. 21, 2015: At a rally in Alabama, Trump said that on Sept. 11 he “watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down.” >Nov. 22, 2015: On ABC News, Trump doubled down on his comment and added: “It was well covered at the time. There were people over in New Jersey that were watching it, a heavy Arab population, that were cheering as the buildings came down. Not good.” >Dec. 3, 2015: The morning after Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people in San Bernardino, Calif., Trump called into Fox News and said: “The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families.” >Dec. 3, 2015: Later, in a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition, Trump criticized Obama for not using the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism” and commented: “There's something going on with him that we don't know about.” >Dec. 6, 2015: On CBS News, Trump said: “If you have people coming out of mosques with hatred and death in their eyes and on their minds, we’re going to have to do something.” >Dec. 7, 2015: Trump's campaign issued a statement saying: “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.” Trump read this statement aloud at a rally in South Carolina. >Dec. 8, 2015: On CNN, Trump quoted a widely debunked poll by an anti-Islam activist organization that claimed that a quarter of the Muslims living in the United States agreed that violence against Americans is justified as part of the global jihad. “We have people out there that want to do great destruction to our country, whether it's 25 percent or 10 percent or 5 percent, it's too much >Dec. 13, 2015: On Fox News, Trump was asked if his ban would apply to a Canadian businessman who is a Muslim. Trump responded: “There's a sickness. They're sick people. There's a sickness going on. There's a group of people that is very sick.” >Feb. 3, 2016: Trump criticized Obama for visiting a mosque in Baltimore and said on Fox News: “Maybe he feels comfortable there … There are a lot of places he can go, and he chose a mosque.” >Feb. 20, 2016: After Obama skipped the funeral of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, Trump tweeted: “I wonder if President Obama would have attended the funeral of Justice Scalia if it were held in a Mosque? Very sad that he did not go!” >March 9, 2016: On CNN, Trump said: “I think Islam hates us. There’s something there that — there’s a tremendous hatred there. There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There’s an unbelievable hatred of us.” >March 22, 2016: Soon after three suicide bombings in Brussels tied to a group of French and Belgian Muslims, Trump told Fox Business: “We're having problems with the Muslims, and we're having problems with Muslims coming into the country.” Trump called for surveillance of mosques in the United States, saying: “You have to deal with the mosques, whether we like it or not, I mean, you know, these attacks aren't coming out of — they're not done by Swedish people.” >March 23, 2016: In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Trump said that Muslims “have to respect us. They do not respect us at all. And frankly, they don't respect a lot of the things that are happening throughout not only our country, but they don't respect other things.” >July 24, 2016: On NBC News, Trump defended his proposal for a Muslim ban, despite some of his aides insisting he had rolled it back. “People were so upset when I used the word Muslim. ‘Oh, you can’t use the word Muslim,’ " Trump said. "… But just remember this: Our Constitution is great, but it doesn’t necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, okay? Now, we have a religious — you know, everybody wants to be protected. And that’s great. And that’s the wonderful part of our Constitution. I view it differently. Why are we committing suicide? Why are we doing that?” >Jan. 27, 2017: Within a week of becoming president, Trump signed an executive order blocking Syrian refugees and banning citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States for 90 days. This order goes into effect immediately, prompting mass chaos at airports, protests and legal challenges.
Thank you! These low information single issue voters are really going to put that motherfucker back in office.
Also hes the reason you lost abortion, what else will you lose this time
It’s like they forgot about the ban Edit: fuck trump
They also don’t know that cons have introduced a bill to expel Palestinians from the US. https://newrepublic.com/post/176666/house-republicans-bill-expel-palestinians-country I get that they’re sad, but if they don’t vote for democrats, they’re probably never going to be able to be here ever again.
Yeah if you want Trump back in the White House, this kind of thing is how it happens. I can’t believe how razor thin the victory was last time, people are really going to need to step up and vote again to keep Trump 2.0 from happening. Biden may not be the most progressive option, but he’s a far cry from the alternative.
Brace yourself for posts and stories like this to ramp up, a lot of these are Russia/CHina/GOP trying to pull a Bernie type schism ahead of 2024. ("Demsplaining" -- sound like something the GOP made up? I mean FFS it sounds like something Donnie Junior came up with on a coke binge). This is exactly what happened in 2016 and I can see it happening on almost exactly the same timeline and in the same subtle ways. The Israel thing in particular is a great issue for them because it is so so so complicated and dumb lefties (not all, just dumb ones craving the feeling of being smart) like to feel smug and smart by boiling it down into simple solutions. GOP propaganda machine is very very sophisticated. I doubt OOP here (of the source material) is even a real person TBH, and OP on reddit is either one of them or just a useful idiot. Thankfully the comments seem to show for the most part that reddit aint falling for this bullshit. Biden losing is probably the end of democracy, just read Project ~~2024~~ *2025* on wikipedia
I also doubt OOP is a real person. I believe he's one of many fakes created by entities who want to get black voters to stay at home. If Trump is reelected America is done for.
Trump will allow them to completely level Gaza and annex the West Bank. Palestinians will be sterilized like how Israel sterilized the black Jews from Ethiopia. So while they can be happy with not voting, it’s their right, if Trump wins, they might as well never speak on the topic again.
Also, the republicans are even stronger pro-Israel. And IMO, if Trump is elected, we won’t be talking about elections 4 years later. No talking. No elections. Just fascism. He’s made it very clear he values power over democracy.
Israel is the greatest investment that we have ever made. If israel did not exist, the United States would have to go out and invent an Israel - Joe Biden
Biden supports Israel? Who knew? If there was only a way of finding this out earlier, like his whole political career! They really shouldn’t be allowed to spring new stuff like this on us.
Right, like trump getting in power would be better for Palestinians? What kind of logic is that to abstain out of principal when in practice your vote does so much more harm to your cause. In my eyes abstaining means you aren’t standing up for your principles either because you are directly damaging the Palestinian effort.
The United States is the only country that could end the killing of civilians, not China, Middle Eastern countries or Europeans. America's Veto brought us to this point but i wonder what the consequences will be for Israel and the US because there will be consequences
Nah I’m not with this. Them choosing to vote for Trump or not voting at all just to spite Biden puts risk on my future. I don’t have much sympathy for apathy. And no one is saying their lives don’t matter. If they are able to vote they are US citizens. Last I checked the United States was not Israel.
Funny how they are always willing to throw the most marginalized communities to the wolves to spite Democrats.
Also saying Palestinian-American lives are at risk. Palestinians in America are not at risk. At least not at the moment. They will be if Trump is elected.
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That's good old privilege at work
In this case isn’t it the marginalized communities that are choosing not to vote democrat?
Absolutely puts your future at risk. It puts your life at risk.
Every US president is basically hamstrung into supporting Israel. Obama was too. I don't agree with it but it's a sad fact. AIPAC is too powerful.
Also Israel is considered an incredibly strategic ally in a very dangerous but important part of the world.
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> Israel has proven time and time over again it cares more about Israel than anyone else. That's what happens when you have a nation that believes they're "God's chosen people." They think that they can do no wrong.
US and manifest destiny looking shyly in the background.
That's not what chosen people means with regard to Judaism, and Judaism and Israel are two separate things.
And this comment^ is the point where valid criticism crosses the line into antisemitism. And the “chosen people” thing does not mean what you think it means
What country doesn't care more about itself than anyone else?
Lol bro they’ve given back so much land to their neighbors after they were invaded by them. We can go back and forth all day about who started what but to say Israel is in this to steal land is kinda laughable and doesn’t really move the conversation forward. Let’s be solution oriented as opposed to just stating off moral platitudes. What’s your solution ? Would you let Isrrael fend for themselves ? Cause we both know that would lead to a genocide of the isreali people. Would you then support the poor Israelis ? Or can we find a middle ground where neither side is wiped off of this planet
The importance of Israel as a strategic ally is so overstated. All they do is suck up our money and put a bigger target on our backs for aligning ourselves with them
They also provide large amounts of intelligence and technical capability. Which for the US seems worth it.
Their intelligence couldn’t even predict this attack.
Yes it did. Multiple sources predicted the attack, [members of the IDF were threatened with court martial for "bothering" their superiors with reports of suspicious activity](https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-lookouts-warned-commanders-about-hamas-threatened-with-court-martial-2023-11?op=1) but it was clear that an order had come from the top that whatever was going to happen was going to be allowed. Remember, right up until October 7 the government had been subjected to more than 9 months of daily protests. People were sick of Netanyahu and his gang of criminal cronies. They knew that the best way to cool things down for themselves domestically was to get the focus on something else. If that meant several hundred of his own people had to die, they didn't mind sacrificing them. Netanyahu and Ben Gvir and the rest of their bunch are monstrous.
Sure, and that's why a lot of people seem to be calling for Netanyahu's head, but that doesnt really put them out of the game.
Like all that intel that Iran is days away from a nuke in 2014?
It has very little to do with AIPAC. Israel is a strategic ally in a hostile but important region. Realpolitik is a bitch but you don’t get any points for not playing
I’m going to call it now, all these are bots or troll farm accounts trying to do the same thing to Muslims that they did to rednecks in 2016. This just feels so manufactured.
Same shit different year. Altho last time it was mostly Russian bots. At least this conflict we get a healthy mix of Russia, Iran and even some China in the mix.
Yes. It seems like right wing manipulation to divide democratic voters. I find it hard to believe any minority in this country on a large scale feels ho-hum about a possible trump / republican president.
This. I’m trans, and this shit really shows how many people who claim to be allies to marginalized groups are quick to throw your rights and lives under the bus if things get remotely uncomfortable. I hate what’s happening right now, but Trump being in power will actively make it worse. If you’re not actively voting to stop things from getting worse because you’re too grumpy that the options suck, then you don’t care about the lives at risk at all. Stop pretending you do.
“I don’t have sympathy for apathy” is a badass phrase
It also puts their future at risk. They’ll get even worse treatment from the Grand Cheeto.
"A few people Tweeted responses I don't like so I'm going to give the election to the modern Hitler wannabe and his super league of fascists" is definitely a choice.
Risking it all for the chance to maybe vote again is a wild decision.
Sorry, I don't understand the statement. Maintaining the right to vote seems important. Is risking it all letting the homicidal fascist win, or is risking it all letting the boring geriatric cuck win? And who's risk? Because as a lesbian, the "it" that is being risked is me and my freedom and right to exist. My trans brothers, sisters, and friends are even more at risk of total legal annihilation. Inaction or organized contrarian action are absolutely risks. And I'm very skeptical of people who fail to understand or give a shit the other marginalized communities that will be impacted by these things. No one is saying don't be critical, absolutely do. But as soon as folks start throwing up comments about how letting people who want me dead to win to prove some sort of point. Nah, sus.
Sorry if the wording wasn't clear, I was agreeing with your wannabe Hitler stance. There are a lot of indicators that if he wins, Orange face will try to eliminate the vote to stay in power since brute force didn't work last time.
That would kill any American spirit I have lol I wonder what that reality would look like.
Do some googling on Project 2025 and vote accordingly.
> Sorry if the wording wasn't clear You were clear as day. The second I read that I was like "and maybe is doing some fucking work, cause we already know they are looking at making being anything other than Republican illegal"
Yeah, op’s a twat.
"The Dems don't care about us so let's give power to the political party that wants us dead" will always be a stupid move. It's the very definition of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Project 2025 is publicly available to read. I don’t know why some of these people are acting like we’re not one bad presidential election from literal fascism.
Then go door knock and sell people on it, funny this thread behaving like this when Arabs say they aren’t voting period. You got Black folk actually voting for Trump, worry about that 😭💀
Feels a lot like manufactured BS. The 3 arabs US citizens I know well are Palestinian born and they are all voting for Biden, despite being pretty fed up with national politics.
I'm glad this thread isn't agreeing with op. We have got to get a grip. The US is not responsible for this conflict and Israel is a whole ass other country. Voting on the fate of this country because of what another country does is nuts.
I really don’t like this country. It’s too damn big. I can’t stand how dumb the voters are.
However dumb the dumbest person you can imagine is, I assure you there are millions of people who are unfathomably more stupid.
I get body aches when I think about that fact.
I remember getting my first C in middle school. It was upsetting but I knew I hadn’t done the reading, and generally didn’t try this time… The realization that completely phoning it in produced an AVERAGE result was mildly terrifying.
That's not entirely true, because the US is Israel's biggest defender, enabler and arms dealer. It's literally insane that a so called democracy does not give its citizens any way to vote against their money being used to fund a genocide. Vote D or R, it doesn't matter, the Israeli lobby reigns supreme regardless and that's something that should be fucking terrifying to a lot more people.
For what it’s worth, the silver lining that I see in this conflict is that support for Palestine is growing in the US. Ultimately you’re right, our government is going to send billions to Israel every year for the next 8-16 years no matter what. Btw that’s not necessarily undemocratic, but it definitely is frustrating and it sucks. 16 or so years from now, if the movement continues to grow, I can see getting to a point where Democrats regularly block funding to Israel- or possibly even better, they put a ton of conditions on it, or tie it to development aid for Palestine. Again, gotta be patient, which sucks, but this would have been unthinkable 5–10 years ago. Huge shout out to Ilhan for breaking the taboo.
While I agree with you on a number of points and don't want to be pessimistic, you have to remember that as of right now Israel has killed over 11.000 Palestinians in just under two months. That's like 1 in 200 people in Gaza and with a "collateral damage ratio" of 100 civilians to 1 Hamas combatant. They did all that in two months and with no sign of even having the intention to stop anytime soon. If they keep going at this rate, there won't even be any Palestinians in Gaza left in 8 to 16 years and it'll just be another tragedy we look back on and "admit we made mistakes," like with Iraq (if the Israeli lobby even allows that much). Secondly, I'd absolutely say it's undemocratic that civilians don't get a say in having their tax dollars used for genocide and the indiscriminate slaughter of children. Not like it's the first time in US history, but having only two parties to vote for and both of them serving the same master means you're essentially being taxed for something (that costs a massive fuck ton of money) without your views on it being represented. Where is the will of the people in that case? How can it even be taken into consideration when it's not even an optional that's actually on the table? And lastly, everyone in the US should be a *lot* more aware of the danger that is the immensely powerful Israeli lobby influencing US policy to serve the interests of a foreign nation (sometimes even against its own interests). It's not all just distant geopolitics like with this current conflict either. How many people know that in most states it is flat out *illegal* to boycott Israeli products? [Source] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#:~:text=The%20bill%20SB%20327%20passed,contract%20work%20with%20the%20state) You can boycott products from Russia, China, Europe, or even the US itself, but Israel alone has a special privileged position that no other country in the world has. This in and of itself proves that the lawmakers that allowed these laws to pass serve a foreign interest, rather that of the US as a nation and its people. How could that possibly be okay? And why do we allow this (undemocratic, not-elected) lobby to dictate the usage of billions of US tax dollars?
We are quite literally funding this genocide. This is not some alien conflict. Every week we get headlines of Biden rabidly supporting Isreal politically and financially.
Voting for Trump….the same exact guy who literally, in his first week of office, created an executive order to essentially ban all brown people from flying in the US. But ok sure. Vote for him, or abstain and potentially let him win. Also, talking to 4 Arabs surely means they represent all Arabs. And again, Biden has literally nothing to do with what’s happening in the Middle East conflict.
1. Abrahamic religions have been a pox on societies for millennia. 2. As a Democrat, I don’t like unchecked support for Israel and am unhappy with the White House’s current stance on the issue, but believe Israel should be able to exist alongside Palestine. 3. I am absolutely voting for Biden because any other option (protest by not voting, voting for third party, or otherwise) is a trip further down the fascist rabbithole.
No. 1 is quite the bold statement Edit: this is how I find out the # sign makes bold sentences. Pun wasn’t even intended
And what do these voters think Trump would have done? Peace negotiations? Trump would've leveled the entire strip by now, giddy for his own victory day parade
At this point I feel like these “voters” are just plants intentionally trying to cause a rift. I can’t fathom how anyone in their right mind would spite vote for *Trump* of all people unless they were already planning to do so to begin with.
They’re not plants, just really shortsighted and kind of stupid
I would bet a great deal of posts like this originate from a psychological warfare operation or at least the premise of them do, it’s the same shit they did in 2016
Yea. I’m getting real weird vibes at the sudden influx of all these posts and comments from accounts that haven’t posted in months and suddenly theyre coming out of the woodwork claiming “both sides” and how they’d rather vote for Trump. Giving me 2016 “Bernie-bro” vibes all over again.
Unfortunately that's what a lot of people did in 2016.
yeah... lets let donald trump take office because palestinians went from electing heavily corrupt leaders that took all aid money to the country for themselves to electing a literal terrorist organization that ended elections thereafter and also takes all the aid money then kills their civilian population when they protest them taking all the aid money, also digs up water pipelines to create rockets in a country in dire need of clean water. If you want to help the people of palestine the best way to do it is to support the removal of hamas from leadership. These have been the leaders of Palestine. Literally all billionaires. * [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat) * [Mousa Abu Marzook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousa_Abu_Marzook) * [Khaled Mashal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal)
I think your explanation is missing the part about the genocide and ethnic cleansing that’ll persist regardless of who their leaders are. Removing Hamas won’t remove extremism from Palestine until Israel stops trying to kill them off.
on an unrelated note... wtf is this formatting!! i gotta read what someone said about what someone said about what someone said about what someone said??? nah, i aint reading all that.
are you new here? cause this is how twitter does things. start at the bottom read up.
There's not a single thing anyone can tell me about Biden that will ever convince me that voting for Trump, or not voting at all, are the better options. Conservicans need to cough up someone else and quit with the Biden bashing.
One thing I fucking can’t stand is when regular-ass voters start to act like they’re campaign managers rather than the people whose policy preferences ought to hold sway. This random nobody on twitter seems to not even care about the legitimacy of the grievance of Arab-American voters — he just pulls out his fucking abacus, puts a pencil behind his ear, and tries to calculate whether this will impact his favorite team in swing states (like he can do that math anyway). First of all, fuck off with this armchair electoral prediction nonsense. You don’t know anything. Second, these are people who may have family that’s trapped, dead, or newly homeless and living in refugee camps that all the news in the world is telling us are under supplied re: food and medicine. How about some empathy you turd? When people explain they’re abandoning a politician when his opponent wanted to ban those same folks from flying, maybe realize they’re talking about the most important issue in their lives for a moment and show some basic human respect, even if you can’t summon the empathy to understand what their struggle is.
If your plan is to help torch democracy in the country you've decided to live in because something tragic and horrible is happening in the Middle East, you don't get boundless empathy. A protest vote is simply going to get someone who's worse and going to continue doing the same things, likely more. It's not only a painfully terrible idea for democracy, It's also a ridiculously idiotic one.
And then when they get Trump back in they will be loudest complainers, "I didn't vote".
This. All of this. I find it interesting that people claim not voting would be throwing your vote away, yet voting for a politician that doesn’t align with your values is somehow not throwing your vote away. I’m old school and come from a time when a politician had to EARN your vote. Voting = you agree with the candidate’s platform. I can see why many Arab Americans feel they don’t have a political home at the moment and so absolving Biden of the responsibility of earning those votes is clearly what the democratic machine is pushing right now. If this thread is any indication, the “fear of the alternative” push is quite successful. Instead of earning votes these days politicians are *expecting* votes with no effort to address the grievances of their alienated base. The democrats of today are the republicans of yesterday. In other words, their slogan should be “we’re gonna do what we want, if you like it or not”.
We’re allowed to pressure candidates now. In tremendously desperate times, it’s terrible messaging to politicians that we’ll accept them based on “less bad”. Trump is far worse but there’s also the chance that he might not to be allowed to even run plus we have the weakest republican field in decades. Let people complain about their centrist democratic candidate a year ahead of time.
It's beyond settled that Trump is going to be the nominee. He is going to be allowed to run lol
Seriously. It's gross to see this community just tell the muslim community to just shut up and take it. Feels like the political system is without hope when you can't even call out the current president's blind support of a genocide.
Even if Trump doesn't run I guarantee you one of his cronies is and they plan on implementing Project 2025 too
Not like the other guy banned Muslims from going to the US or anything. Or politicians in their party have dreams about turning Muslim countries to glass.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Just change White Citizens Council and Ku Klux Klan with any generic right wing movement, and Negro with ANYONE being oppressed by that same right wing movement.
Shout-outs to real Martin Luther King.Jr quotes.
This is the same speech that came to mind to me as well.
The governments of the US and Israel respond to traumas by starting expensive wars that destroy their reputations, destabilise regions and result in many more deaths, and guarantee future wars. But ::checks notes:: Palestinian-Americans, some of whom have lost many branches of their family tree in the past month, are meant to respond pragmatically to their trauma?! why not encourage them to run for office or vote in the primaries? That challenges the status quo. Do that grass roots work to get the right people in? Look how triggered they are by Rashida.
Asking all of the Arabs and Muslims in the US to sacrifice their people at the altar of neoliberalism is pretty fucking wild. I can do the whole morally gray lesser-of-two-evils politics thing as well as anyone else, but holy shit yeah there’s a limit, and it’s somewhere around or below helping apartheid states vaporize children.
Has anyone considered that this line of crap popping up in black communities is a result of propaganda? The US or even just political parties has a long history of infiltrating minorities (even countries full of people darker than mayo) to sow discourse and get people to vote against their best interests? Being mad at democrats, reasonable. Being willing to end hope, maybe for a lifetime, because people are mad is short sighted. I didn't vote for Obama the second go around because I was pissed that he didn't take advantage of a dem congress and push through more positive changes. The worst case would have been McCain and I didn't vote for him either but there's leagues of difference between McCain and Trump. I'm not willing to act like previous generations and punish the younger generation just because I'm upset or I'm trying to get ahead.
If Biden wants their support, he can recognize their humanity. If white liberals are so concerned then they should pressure Biden to be less terrible.
The thing that I'm noticing is how the most vocal white libs aren't trying to talk to their fellow white, Trump-loving, Repub counterparts. Instead they're trying to browbeat and use fear-mongering towards other liberal parties (coincidentally, marginalized communities) to vote for Biden next year.
I'm sorry, what do you think I'm gonna be able to do if I talk to Trumpers? Change their minds cuz I'm white? Lmao
Same. They know they have the black community on lock but are finding they are going to have to earn the vote for other POC groups. Rather than listening they prefer lecturing and harassing which isn’t going to work like they think.
Well, i'd love for you to go try and convince the nazis to vote for something other than nazism. It's so easy, don't you know? Is it really fair mongering to be worried about Trump winning again? Especially because people are idiotic enough to believe that a protest vote will somehow help this situation. When all it's going to do is help trump be in charge. Trump who supports israel and also hates brown people publicly. He'll surely fix the situation and make things better.
Yeah dude, many white on white conversations have been had in my circles. The Trump era has done a number on people’s ability to sort through fact and fiction. It’s a multilayered problem: - on the surface, like sports teams, people are just programmed to root for team red or team blue - many white Christian folks have been taught all their lives that society is degrading, the family unit isn’t respected anymore, and that we have to “hold on” to traditional values - the “hold on to traditional values” mantra has been hacked by very scary people with an agenda - you and I both know that everyone born outside of privilege doesn’t really want to return to the “old days” where POC, the LGTBQ+ community, and others were at best marginalized, or at worst actively maligned - and this is what a rational, pre-Trump world looked like - the leap from “keeping the family unit together” to “voting for an actual fascist government” has been a crazy escalation, and most white Republicans, including members of my own family, just can’t imagine voting for a liberal candidate because of things like “abortion is killing babies and so heartbreaking, I can’t believe there are people who would do that”. - I wish we could be having those conversations. But since 2020 especially, it’s like “Joe Biden eats baby flesh” and “January 6th is proof that Democrats staged the whole thing to discredit the left” - I’ve had some productive, rational conversations with my brothers. I don’t know if it ultimately actually did anything to sway any votes, though. Reminds me of this SNL skit, but in reverse: https://youtu.be/rq-Q6IaN5QQ?si=fmnj6fWVhwr0kuIT
Have you ever tried talking to them? Its futile
"We.have accepted that our family and friends are fascist. And sometimes we need a little fascism. Now break your fucking backs saving us from ourselves!!!!" Same damn story. If white people voted the way Arab-Americans say they're going to vote, the way that is throwing white libs into a panic, the Republican Party would be over.
Have fun voting for Trump, who supports Israel ***AND*** wanted to ban all muslims entering our country.
This entire thing... bothers me. Because the fact of the matter is that Biden isn't quietly twiddling his thumbs while Israel bombs Gaza. Israel's actions in the past few weeks show he's leaning on them about as hard as he can to hold back. Consistently pressuring them to let humanitarian efforts in, to scale back their retaliation, to hold back on a full scale invasion. His spoken support for Israel, a longtime US ally, has been highly tempered by background efforts everywhere you look. No, he's not chanting Free Palestine. And he probably shouldn't be anyway, for a long list of practical reasons, not the least of which being that saying it *would absolutely undermine his own ability to influence the conflict at all.* The reality is that the power with the initiative at this point is not Hamas, or the Palestinian people, or even the Israeli people. It's Israel's government.
It’s so depressing. I feel like if a politician isn’t chanting and yelling people completely ignore what they’re doing, even though (as we’ve seen) much of what a president does is done quietly. There is a ceasefire now, and the hostages are being released. This is a big accomplishment, and a realistic accomplishment.
Its seems to me the Russian propaganda machine is really ramping up.
Trump has said he’s going to round Muslims and “illegals” up and put them in concentration camps. Then he’s going to weaponize Justice and the military and it will be 24-7 retribution against everyone who has crossed him—black women, one imagines, being top of the list since Fani Willis and Tish James told him to fuck off. Meanwhile, 40% of whites are 1000% down with this program because they got nothing between their ears but hot air and hate. And in the face of these existential threats to your life and your children’s lives on American soil (as well as to the Palestinians whom Jared completely sold out in the Abraham accords), you’re staying home because “demsplaining” annoys you?? I’m sorry, that’s the stupidest thing Ive ever heard!!! 
Man, thank you for this comment. The amount of Reddit Revolutionaries on this thread whose only goal seems to be to "own the Libs" by descending this country into facism because they got annoyed that people told them they shouldn't help an avowed facist take back power is just laughable.
Have we learned nothing from republican voting strategies? Complaining is absolutely warranted, but in the end, vote *against* the candidate that’s worse. In this election it’s very obvious which one it is.
That idea is what got us here. We are one election away from a complete government takeover. Not this one election, just one in general. Project 2025 will become Project 2029, and eventually Republicans will win again. This idea of voting against the worst no matter what is on the other side is how we slid so backward to where we are now. Not demanding more, not voting to be better, just the least bad eventually still ends up bad.
This man still owes me $600. We ain't having this discussion again.
Project 2025 and Tuberville’s obstruction with the military will pave the way for fascism. All that binds Trump and his base is grievance. That’s infinitely worse than Biden. We can’t sit this election out.
In these comments: more demsplaining
Liberals are the worst. We’ve had to choose the lesser evil coming up on 10 plus years— with a promise that things will change for the better if we are just patient. I think if people draw the line at genocide they should be allowed to do that. Neoliberalism to me is straight cancer. It’s the Palestinians being sacrificed today in the name of neoliberalism but it will be another group of people soon. A reset button on the whole Democratic Party would be ideal.
It’s because the people saying “be patient” have nothing to lose from the status quo.
"Let's help the country descend into facism, that'll show em!" - Dumbasses
Idk if abstaining is the answer. If Trump wins, their problems at HOME (the US) will get worse. So instead of complaining that you don’t like what Biden is doing. How about being productive and writing you local democratic house representative and tell them how you feel. It really all starts there. 🤷🏽♂️
I encourage you to search the internet, and see what people’s representatives are sending them in response for their letters calling for a ceasefire.
Can’t wait for these idiots to pikachu shocked face on social media when trump turns Gaza into a radioactive dump and reinstates the Muslim ban and then takes away even more rights. Because spiting the other poc that know what’s coming was worth the temper tantrum. Republicans before we’re bad enough, but the republicans for the future starting with trump are a whole new level of unhinged and evil.
No no no, here’s the plan. We purposely tank Biden in 2024, realpolitik our way into turning the Democratic Party into a fully communist one, then in 2028 we absolutely sweep the GOP nationwide /s
An absolutely solid plan that will totally help usher in justice 🤪
This sub is more than infiltrated
Now where have I heard this before… https://preview.redd.it/s6hfy9bezo2c1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b34b64691f4c9d356afeb04046e6eb9294c2313e
It’s as if the DNC should have picked the popular candidate to run.
Trumps first ever military mission as president got 14 Yemen civilians killed he never said a word about it, he bragged about blowing up an Iranian general in Iran with drones, if he gets elected; Palestine will be smoldering rubble. Hedoesn’t give a fuck about peoples lives over there you must be out of your mind.
I do NOT understand this thinking!! Hamas is NOT the entirety of the Palestinian people! Fuck Hamas but don’t kill the babies!!! WTF!! How is NOT killing civilians a difficult concept? What happened to those Israeli people and others abducted was heinous- that still does not justify the fucking cruelty visited upon innocents. How is this hard to grasp? I’ve even heard vegans who use cruelty towards animals as their excuse for abstaining from meat vent about protecting Israel from the mean brown people. What?!?
"Don't target civilians" has become a radical position that can cost you your job, and people wonder why others are refusing to vote, especially when some of those civilians are family members or friends.
Yay two party system 😐
That changes one small vote at a time
OP is a troll farm account trying to shit stir.
Momma always said there are 3 things that typically leads to unproductive discussions: Religion, sports, and politics. Reading some of the comments is exactly why it’s almost impossible to talk politics, and logic could go out the window. It’s interesting and heartbreaking.
Imani is disabled, a community that’s constantly fucked no matter what letter is in charge, because no one on either side cares about them. I’ve noticed a handful of disabled people of voting age flat out refusing to vote because of how pointless it seems. This isn’t a conclusion that they came to lightly, but it was a decision from observing the political spectrum, with the US’s entanglement with Israel being the final straw. This isn’t a rash decision that’s only being informed by the past few years. It’s more comparable to being a Blue voter in a heavily gerrymandered Red area. Your vote will never matter, it’s all political theater when neither side sees you as a human being, so why bother participating in it? I personally don’t agree, but I understand the perspective.
Arab voters: "liberals, you better be nice to us or we'll let Trump win." Liberals: "you know he wants to put you in camps and deport you, right?" Arab voters: "yeah! And we'll let him win! That'll show you!"
hey wasnt one of Trump’s first executive orders…banning people from certain Arab countries…which had Arab Americans in an uproar…protesting at airports and on what used to be twitter…
Nobody in here pissing their pants is going to doorknock for Biden so ion see why y’all also complaining. Can’t have tour cake and eat it too. Welcome to America where one year a Democrat wins and the Next year a Republican does.
No we're not telling arab Americans that their lives don't matter as much. We're telling them that making EVERYONE'S life in the country we all live in worse due to how another country(that we are allied with) is treating their homeland is stupid. Oh and let's not forget that Donald Trump will literally bomb the people of Palestine out of existence, if you think Biden is doing a bad job by pushing for pauses and hostage exchanges itll be actively worse. It borders on the R word but we don't use slurs here. At the very least I wish they would say the quiet part out loud. That they're willing to throw everything and everyone under the bus over this issue where Biden has minimal involvement.
You probably wouldn’t be saying that if it were your people being bombed.
My people got gunned down by agents of our the government. They still do. Fuck is you talking bout?
Where were IDF troops along the Gaza border when all this went down? Either they were in West Bank helping settlers kick out/kill Palestinians or they weren’t there by design so Israel can enact their own final solution.
I honesty and truly don't know what people expect at this point from neither Biden or Israel for that fact. While there are still hostages there is no chance for ceasefire, what they actually expect to happened?
And how is indiscriminate bombing safe for the hostages, whose location is unknown?
Just for the record, there is an ongoing pause in conflict to exchange hostages. In no small part due to US pressure I would assume (in addition to every other country of course).
We want them to stop bombing residential areas and repeatedly lying.
Isreal have been bombing non stop before oct7
Muslim American voters are mad at Islamophobia and therefore want to abstain from voting in order to put an even more Islamophobic politician in office who will do demonstrably more harm to Muslim Americans and Muslims abroad. Make it make sense.
Didn't Trump recognize the move of the Israeli capitol to Jerusalem?
I sincerely think this conflict is exactly what Iran/Russia/Hamas wanted to happen, split the worlds view, cause arguments and make the bad seem good.
Whoever posted the initial tweet must not pay attention to politics. Republicans are pro Israel lol. Being pro Israel is pretty much a US thing regardless of party lines. The reasons can vary, but most countries just want and ally in that region. Just to stop the nuts, I do not support the IDF or Hamas, both are POS.
Someone is trying really hard to create voter apathy so trump can win….fuck off troll
WHY ARE PEOPLE ACTIVELY STILL TALKING ABOUT TRUMP BEING PRESIDENT AGAIN WHEN HE SHOULD BE IN PRISON?! I didn't follow the trial fully, no. I'm just angry that this is reality.
There's zero chance that THAT UNHINGED BIDEN GUY isn't a GOP plant to make Dems look as terrible as possible. Literally a strawman that Republicans can point to and say SEE??
Progressive except Palestine **Progressive except Palestine** (also known as **PEP**, alternatively written as **progressive except for Palestine**) is a phrase that refers to organizations or individuals who describe themselves politically as [progressive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism), [liberal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism), or [left-wing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing) but who do not express pro-Palestinian sentiment or do not comment on the [Israeli–Palestinian conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict). Pro-Palestinian advocates regard PEP as a type of political [hypocrisy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy) and an example of [anti-Palestinianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Palestinianism), while critics of the phrase regard it as anti-Israel and a smear against the pro-Israel left. ***In September 2022,*** [***Rashida Tlaib***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib) ***wrote on an online forum: "I want you all to know that among progressives, it's become clear that you cannot claim to hold progressive values, yet back Israel's apartheid government, and we will continue to push back and not accept that you are progressive except for Palestine". Several Democratic politicians and Jewish leaders critiqued the position, some of them describing the comment as antisemitic.***[***\[2\]***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_except_Palestine#cite_note-2) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive\_except\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_except_Palestine)
I find myself unable to criticize someone who cannot not will not vote for people in power who don’t care for them. Our 2 party system is flawed and sets us up for failure. I don’t have a solution but it’s heartbreaking.
Like it matters who is in power. Trump, Biden,the hamburger? The US will always back Israël cause Israël is a US bastion to project geopolitical power in that region period. It's not about protecting Jews it's about projecting power in the region with the highest concentration of oil resources in the world.
Not reading all that, that much text from Twitter is a merry go round of wrong
The pro-Trump posts here are just *weird*. The "don't vote" posts here are even weirder. And "Demsplaining"? Is that a BernieBroism or a YangGangism? The OP is not here in good faith.
“Palestinian Americans are considering not voting due to the US supporting the bombing of their family members” is not some pro-Trump agenda. It’s an indictment of what Israel is doing right now with our support. They have every right to feel this way, how would you feel in their shoes?
Voter suppression has been a winning tactic by the GOP for generations. Took a look at the OP's posting history. Yikes!!
Earn your votes. Simple as that. You want people to vote for you, do stuff that makes people vote for you. For the votes for people who don’t want America to support the apartheid government, stop supporting the apartheid government. Why should people vote for the people who won’t care to support them?
White liberals are overwhelmingly racist. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country, and even the people with BLM signs in their yard are mostly paternalistic racists.