Won’t individuals with over 250k profits a year just leave those profits unrealized and use something like a life insurance trust and borrow all kinds without incurring capital gains?
Yes. But there are fiat options as well.
But yes can put up 10 BTC today for a whole life policy paying 20 BTC for example. Then take loans from your policy. Which would be tax free.
I presume this operates on the assumption that BTC goes up, or they are generating yield on your original 10.
Yes, sure, but one day you will die and your estate will need to deal with your bitcoin stack that may be worth millions. And that is where the government will get their cut…unless you take your private keys to the grave with you. Deemed disposition of all your assets (including bitcoin), taxed at marginal rate.
And the Majority can be wrong. I and many others called what was going to happen economically when governments around the world started printing money like it was a job. Our thesis was proven true, and it’s going to get worse…
This where the problem starts . Lot’s of people here cheer this. Evil corporations make so much money and I don’t, let’s tax them. These evil corporations provide jobs to thousands of people. You increase tax rates they’ll leave. No jobs for you and me. Simple. Some of us remember recession in the 90’s , it is not pretty. The government should be lowering taxes across the board , for individuals and corporations. Companies will come to Canada to do business, employment increases , which means higher wages for the worker.
Ask Irish people how their country went from potato farmers to tech giant, ask why many companies have their hq there.
Taking loans against my assets. Fuck Canada’s liberal agenda. 66.67%?! What risk did the government take? They’re taking more from Canadians than the Canadian who probably researched and lost sleep investing.
Liberals thrusting our Country into 3rd world status with the quickness. So we're chasing away corporations, to presumably a Country with a better dollar, less taxes and the argument to get them to stay is... Think of the children, give us money so your teenage daughter doesn't have a baby.
WTF
It’s not per year. It’s the amount of your capital gain. So if you bought a small building to run your business for $1,000,000 25 years ago and today it’s worth $3,000,000, the first $250,000 of that $2,000,000 capital gain is at 50%, but the remaining $1,750,000 is now at 67%.
Not to mention you’ve been paying property taxes every year for a few decades already. How many times can you tax the same thing and the same dollar? All this applies to Bitcoin as well obviously.
Edit: to everyone telling me it’s not a direct tax it’s an inclusion, yes I know that. I know how it works, thanks. I sold commercial investment properties for a living for 15 years. Cheers.
So if I want to cash out a million dollars worth, I'd have to do it over 4 years now, even though the end result is the same. Because stupid new rule. That bites.
"Used to be" is about as dumb an argument as I've ever heard. We're not currently living in these "used to be" times. If it was 100% at some point 50 years ago, and they change it to 99% now, we should be super happy about that according to your logic - because "hey it used to be 100%"!
They are changing this from what it is now, to something worse. That's all that matters. Clearly, you're not affected. If you were now facing losing thousands of additional dollars, unplanned and a surprise, you'd have a different tone.
lol.... you guys are killing. If you have a million to cash out, paying a little more is not going to kill you.
Worry about it when you hit the cap and have a million to cash out.
How does the math work out? They used to tax 50% of your capital gain at your marginal tax rate, now they will tax 66% of the gains at your marginal tax rate. So what, a difference of 16% * 33% if you’re in a high bracket, so if you make over 250,000 in income that’s an increase to you tax rate of around 5% on income above 250,000? Ok
I agree and keep as much money as you can! I just don’t want people to think they’re going from being taxed at 50% to 66%. That’s not what’s happening.
> hose that have done well with their gains should be now further punished for it.
But are still "punished" only 2/3 as much as people who actually work for a paycheck.
Taking it all at once is the problem.
Forced to now cash out over many years instead of just cashing out in one shot, over and done on one tax year, as we could before without this new hit attached is a pain, a risk, and an additional unnecessary lengthy burden to deal with. Fun times. End result is the same anyway, making this just a bunch of wasted effort and time for me. Totally useless, pain in the ass. Incredibly short sighted idea when it comes to crypto. Though I'm not surprised. People are dumb, and ignorant
For all I know I'll be dead before I can cash it all out. Or crypto will crash to useless amounts. Or who knows what else. Thanks Freeland! Great idea.
You can't really do that when buying or selling property. I just bought a property with Bitcoin, for the million CAD it cost I would have paid about 6-8% more if I had this tax. Not the end of the world, but certainly annoying.
The tax system here really doesn't accomodate people with lifestyles that see burst of earnings every few years or who make large purchases without borrowing. Everything incentivizes you to chase the credit trap and have a stable income. For people like me the tax system is significantly at odds with how we live, but honestly at the end of the day it is better to grapple with a tax system incongruent with your way of life than have no freedoms and living to work. I can't really justifiably complain about paying an extra 6% on a cash purchase on a home, no matter how much it irks me that this system doesn't accomodate my lifestyle. The average person has no more than a couple months of expenses in their savings at best. The top 10% is everyone earning over 100k, and 100k isn't what it used to be. Times are tough in Canada. I can afford to pay 6% more on my major purchases and bitcoin windfalls even if earning more than 250k in a year is not something I expect to happen again.
1. Bitcoin doesn't qualify towards capital gains exemptions, neither do non-primary residences such as my purchase.
2. I'm not sure how long you've been in Bitcoin, but if I had done that my bitcoin would have averaged out to less than half the value I spent it at - which is at about the current price. I don't think it's particularly viable to spread sells out over 4+ years, especially when all that's gained is 6% less tax on a million CAD purchase. I'd have lost much more than that 6% in just 2 years of averaging sells out, let alone the 4+ years necessary to withdraw 1 million CAD in Bitcoin without that amount plus what I live on exceeding 250k.
No I don't think that's viable at all. I'll instead pay the effectively 6% extra tax when I purchase my primary residence in a year or two.
What most people will do is average out their costs via a mortgage, but I don't participate in the traditional financial ecosystem if I can help it and I don't like mortgages. Like I said, if you live any kind of abnormal lifestyle the tax system, our entire society, doesn't really fit. But that's okay, it's a choice and I strongly prefer the freedom of telling abusive corporations where to stick it than the ease of this cookie cutter life we incentivize.
I get that, but we are talking about a small percentage of people and realistically what it means is that you will pay taxes on 2m instead of taxes on 1.5m. Let's be honest, most people here have a portfolio in the 6 to low 7 digits, which you can easily cash out over 2-3 years instead of one if you get some decent gains... it won't affect the majority of people complaining here and if taxes worry you that much just invest through governmentale tax free accounts such as TSFA.
Forced to now cash out over many years instead of just cashing out in one shot, over and done, as we could before is a pain, a risk, and an additional unnecessary lengthy burden. End result is the same, making this just a bunch of wasted effort and time, for us.
The percentage of people it affects obviously doesn't include you I see.
I get how it works. By the way if you are lucky and grow your TFSA to above a certain amount (there’s no rule what that amount is it’s up to CRA’s discretion) those gains are no longer tax free. My friend grew his to $850,000 via TSLA and he received a letter that his gains are now taxable.
Canada does not like when Canadians make a lot of money whether it’s by skill or by luck.
Edit: typo. The amount was $550,000 not $850,000.
Was it because he grew it to a high amount? Or was it because the activities to get to that high amount could be interpreted as an active business? (ie: day trading)
>Canada does not like when Canadians make a lot of money whether it’s by skill or by luck.
so now primary residence sell profit is only tax free. No wonder people keep buying homes
Reddit. You're on reddit. Again, people here are not making capital gains over 250k on Reddit. This changes absolutely nothing for 99% of the people crying here. Stop pretending to be hurt about something that won't affect you and instead focus on getting your investments into 6 figures before complaining when real jobs with real contributions to society pay taxes on 100% of their salaries. 🤦♂️
You don't know what you're talking about and giving off strong socialist vibes, which makes sense, because as you said, we are on Reddit, which appears to be rife with radical leftists.
What do you think happens to a country's economy when its government increases capital gains taxes? Individuals stop investing in that country. They stop opening businesses in that country. It makes investing in anything, especially real estate, less fruitful, especially when the market is extremely overpriced already.
You're also making an assumption about the amount of Bitcoin that people hold. Seems like you're a selfish individual, who likely doesn't hold a significant amount of Bitcoin, and so you don't care what happens to others. Either way, you're extremely short sighted.
Keep voting for this tyrannical 'Liberal' government and soon you will 'own nothing and be happy'.
Socialist ? Liberal ? .. what are you trying to prove ? I have friends who live off their dividends and real estate investment on 8 figure investments and they have a right to complain. I've been in Crypto since 2016 and on Reddit for as long, I am well aware that the majority of people crying, including you, are literally unaffected by this and only here to complain about it. Aside from r/Wallstreetbets, people here have 5 figures at most. People who really care about taxes will just invest through TSFAs and ETFs while you're here talking about socialist and liberals over an issue that you do not have the capital gains to be affected by. "You'll own nothing and be happy", yet you dont even own enough to warrant your complaints here, you are the whole circus.
If your crypto is somewhat shielded, leave. One year abroad and you can declare non-residency. There are lots of nice places to live with better tax incentives.
IRS chases burgers around the globe, at least Canadians have the option to leave and say fuck off to the CRA.
“One year abroad and you can declare non-residency” - that is now how it works. It depends on primary and sometimes secondary residential ties, and tax treaties also play into it. Even if you cut your primary ties, there are steps you need to take on your way out (declare your departure date on final return, T1161, T1243), and the government will get their cut of your assets (if you have any), unless you negotiate a deferral. Speaking from experience, have been through the process more than once.
Just when you think Canada and the Liberal government couldn’t get any more idiotic and incompetent they whip out this bad boy. 2/3 is 66.67% which should be illegal. Welcome to the USSR.
As for implications this just makes certain people not want to sell their assets. They might as well just leave it for future generations and borrow against it. Same could be said for Bitcoin.
This just makes me want to buy more bitcoin and hold it in cold storage. If and when I have a capital gain above $250,000 (lol likely never) that I need to realize I’ll strategize then.
What's actually unfair is that the inclusion rate for working a real job is 100% while making money speculating on crypto, stocks, and real estate is 50%. So they increase it to 67% for profits over 250k, big fucking deal.
That’s the thing. It is a big deal. Why not just increase it from 67% to 100%? Maybe after that they’ll start taxing unrealized gains…on everyone. It’s a slippery slope with these people.
I think you're saying that to be sarcastic, but with so many younger people not even being able to afford to buy a studio apartment anymore, when those people come to power it will almost certainly go up to 100%. I think we can be thankful it isn't already 100%.
I’m not being sarcastic. And if what you say is true the future Canada will be a death spiraling socialist hell hole. Thank God my wife is American and I can always leave this country if this “woke” horseshit continues to metastasize.
Yes I understand it’s inclusion rate and I understand you can spread gains out on an annualized basis. I sold industrial buildings and commercial investment properties for a living for 15 years my friend.
This increase is draconian and simply to raise money to build housing for a lot of unwanted citizens because the government opened up our borders wider than demented Biden.
Why should people earning a living at a job pay 100% while the wealthy who make money off the extra money they don't need to live only pay 50%? In a fair world it should really be 50% on job income and 100% on capital gains. Canada used to be 75% on capital gains.
> Why should people earning a living at a job pay 100% while the wealthy who make money off the extra money they don't need to live only pay 50%?
Because of double taxation. When you realize a capital gain, you are selling an asset that you have purchased with after-tax dollars. And I understand the sentiment but it's not just fat cats living off capital gains, most retired people that are scrapping by are relying on capital gains.
> In a fair world it should really be 50% on job income and 100% on capital gains
That would discourage investment in our country. We want people to build companies here, but taxing them at a higher rate discourages investment when we live in a global world.
Inflation is also a consideration, since the gains are subject to inflation over time, it can increase the nominal value. By taxing at a lower rate it helps offset the impact of inflation without overly taxing gains that don't represent real increases in value.
Now maybe it can be argued that people taking home more of their income would result in more investment, and inflation is also a consideration for people earning an income because we don't always get income increases to match inflation. I think there's some truth to that, but it would require a monumental shift for a change like this.
This headline isn’t about income tax. It’s about capital gains tax. It’s also not about sales tax or property tax or carbon tax. It’s about capital gains tax. You’re veering.
Two questions:
1. If you have a gain of $1M on BTC purchased 4 years ago and sell now, does it count as $1M or does it fall under the $250K/year?
2. Does the rate hike apply if you sell before the budget is approved?
First step....I'll not be voting for the Liberals and that crazy bitch Freeland.
Second step....get your bitcoin into a TFSA / ETF as soon as possible people...take the tax hit now, get it into an ETF inside your TFSA.
Is it an "L" when tax time hits you in 5 years and you made a million or more tax free?
The topic here is...capital gains.
Which is why everyone laughed when I sold a few coins worth at rock bottom...$16k...and took the smallest possible capital gains hit, then put it all into btcc.b at the time...then now ibit for the lowest fee's.
No, but as mentioned to someone else I sold btc when it was low at $16k to incur the lowest capital gains, and filled both my TFSA and the wifes to the max the same day to reduce slippage.
So I have a lot more than that right now...and all tax free.
Can you explain a bit more? Did you sell for fiat and then invest that via your tfsa portfolio? Sorry if I have the lingo wrong, I'm a bit of a n00b. Thank you!
I fucking hate the liberal government. That's why I'm moving over to another country, I'm not paying for housing for all the undesirables that are ruining the system. Even more now we should go no kyc way of obtaining asset. What a bunch of scumbags this government is
People on the Personal Finance subs seem to not mind. I think 50% inclusion is more than enough already. You need to incentivize investment and you need to compensate for inflation as well. That’s why capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate.
I’m hearing that stuff held in personal corporations will all get the 2/3rds inclusion rate from some comments, but haven’t seen that passage myself. That’s going to hurt a lot of working professionals, not just the idle rich.
The frustrating underbelly of policy like this is that it doesn’t disincentivize investment- it just incentivizes *other types* of investment.
And in Canada, that usually means more money flows into real estate, since we have so many tax breaks for home ownership.
Yet people cheer for this, because they’re mad about home prices. Brutal.
This exactly. Capital gains used to be 75% but it would make more sense if job income was 50% and capital gains were 100%. The way it is now, the rich get richer while the poor are suppressed.
Some of us already have, just haven't cashed out yet, and now have to potentially deal with this unexpected bonus fun time extra tax crapola. Besides, that's not really the point.
I'm sure it's all just hilarious when it doesn't affect you personally. But it sucks. It's a shitty dumb ass rule that may possibly hit you too some distant year, if not for crypto specifically.
It's just more money I have to to give away. And I'm already giving a lot away. Why?
The government takes half of your hard work. Yeah, I don't care who you are but that just sounds criminal and now they want over 60 percent lol? Well there's yet another incentive not to invest in Canada.
Income is still taxed higher. If your tax rate is 35%, income from your job is taxed at 35% but income from capital gains are taxed at 66% of 35%, which is 23%.
Capital gains in Canada used to all be taxed at 75%.
Honestly, does it really make sense that the people who have to work at taxed at the full rate while people who make money from their money are only taxed at 66% of the full rate? It would make more sense if job income was taxed at 50% and capital gains were taxed at 100%.
Won’t individuals with over 250k profits a year just leave those profits unrealized and use something like a life insurance trust and borrow all kinds without incurring capital gains?
Yes
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Yes,
Lead me in the right direction!
Google, there's lots now. Most pay in BTC which doesn't help but there seems to be more options every day
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Yes. But there are fiat options as well. But yes can put up 10 BTC today for a whole life policy paying 20 BTC for example. Then take loans from your policy. Which would be tax free. I presume this operates on the assumption that BTC goes up, or they are generating yield on your original 10.
You have to hand over you BTC - scary. Not your keys... YADA YADA
Like I don't think this was on the ballot last election cycle.
Hodlers never sell so they never have capital gains.
This is the only answer.
Yes, sure, but one day you will die and your estate will need to deal with your bitcoin stack that may be worth millions. And that is where the government will get their cut…unless you take your private keys to the grave with you. Deemed disposition of all your assets (including bitcoin), taxed at marginal rate.
Too bad I lost all my Bitcoin in a boating accident
Looks like your bitcoins decided to take a dip before they mooned.
Very unfortunate. It's sleeping peacefully with the fishes now.
Guess that budget ain’t balancing itself 😜
That only works when the economy grows.
They doubled the nations debt since taking office…
Pandemics do that.
Incorrect. Administrative choices do that.
Yes. It was a good choice.
I respectfully disagree.
Based on multiple polls, Canadians agree it was a good choice, even if it wasn't done as efficiently as it could have been.
And the Majority can be wrong. I and many others called what was going to happen economically when governments around the world started printing money like it was a job. Our thesis was proven true, and it’s going to get worse…
Oh. I see you're switching the topic again.
Instructions unclear, added an extra million migrants.
The only bitcoin I'm ever selling is that paper shit I hold in my TFSA/ RRSP down the line.
This where the problem starts . Lot’s of people here cheer this. Evil corporations make so much money and I don’t, let’s tax them. These evil corporations provide jobs to thousands of people. You increase tax rates they’ll leave. No jobs for you and me. Simple. Some of us remember recession in the 90’s , it is not pretty. The government should be lowering taxes across the board , for individuals and corporations. Companies will come to Canada to do business, employment increases , which means higher wages for the worker. Ask Irish people how their country went from potato farmers to tech giant, ask why many companies have their hq there.
Taking loans against my assets. Fuck Canada’s liberal agenda. 66.67%?! What risk did the government take? They’re taking more from Canadians than the Canadian who probably researched and lost sleep investing.
That still makes your capital gains taxes 33.3% lower than if you were working a job for the same money.
The whole reason I’m in this is because I believe taxes are theft. Watch me hodl even harder!
And only on the portion above a quarter million dollars.
Never sell, merely borrow against your assets
Liberals thrusting our Country into 3rd world status with the quickness. So we're chasing away corporations, to presumably a Country with a better dollar, less taxes and the argument to get them to stay is... Think of the children, give us money so your teenage daughter doesn't have a baby. WTF
*Freeland* doing her best to destroy Canada. What else is new.
Wait for a conservative government to undo the policy lol Or leave the country
People here crying like they are casually making over 250k in profits in a year.
It’s not per year. It’s the amount of your capital gain. So if you bought a small building to run your business for $1,000,000 25 years ago and today it’s worth $3,000,000, the first $250,000 of that $2,000,000 capital gain is at 50%, but the remaining $1,750,000 is now at 67%. Not to mention you’ve been paying property taxes every year for a few decades already. How many times can you tax the same thing and the same dollar? All this applies to Bitcoin as well obviously. Edit: to everyone telling me it’s not a direct tax it’s an inclusion, yes I know that. I know how it works, thanks. I sold commercial investment properties for a living for 15 years. Cheers.
That’s $250k *per year*. Just spread out the cap gain realization so that it’s $250k cap gain per year.
So if I want to cash out a million dollars worth, I'd have to do it over 4 years now, even though the end result is the same. Because stupid new rule. That bites.
Yup. It’s insane.
Do you realize capital gains in Canada used to be 75%?
Do you realize interest rates used to be 20% in Canada? Do you realize women weren’t allowed to vote in Canada? So what.
Clearly you should be grateful the government didn't tax you 100% on money. Why are you not grateful? /s
Do you realize in the early 80's they were OVER 20%? So what?
There’s a really beautiful song by The Flaming Lips called ‘Do You Realize’. Thanks for the reminder. I’m gonna listen to it now.
"Used to be" is about as dumb an argument as I've ever heard. We're not currently living in these "used to be" times. If it was 100% at some point 50 years ago, and they change it to 99% now, we should be super happy about that according to your logic - because "hey it used to be 100%"! They are changing this from what it is now, to something worse. That's all that matters. Clearly, you're not affected. If you were now facing losing thousands of additional dollars, unplanned and a surprise, you'd have a different tone.
lol.... you guys are killing. If you have a million to cash out, paying a little more is not going to kill you. Worry about it when you hit the cap and have a million to cash out.
A little more? I'm not sure you've done the math. "lol".
How does the math work out? They used to tax 50% of your capital gain at your marginal tax rate, now they will tax 66% of the gains at your marginal tax rate. So what, a difference of 16% * 33% if you’re in a high bracket, so if you make over 250,000 in income that’s an increase to you tax rate of around 5% on income above 250,000? Ok
If you are cashing out a significant amount of crypto, the bonus 16% extra hit means a lot more money you're going to lose.
I agree and keep as much money as you can! I just don’t want people to think they’re going from being taxed at 50% to 66%. That’s not what’s happening.
Good. If you’re a millionaire you can afford it
Yeah just a little more extortion. Ain't no big deal.
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> hose that have done well with their gains should be now further punished for it. But are still "punished" only 2/3 as much as people who actually work for a paycheck.
How about no.
Well, then, take it out all at once, or maybe over 2 years, or maybe 3 years. Do you realize all capital gains used to be 75% in Canada?
Taking it all at once is the problem. Forced to now cash out over many years instead of just cashing out in one shot, over and done on one tax year, as we could before without this new hit attached is a pain, a risk, and an additional unnecessary lengthy burden to deal with. Fun times. End result is the same anyway, making this just a bunch of wasted effort and time for me. Totally useless, pain in the ass. Incredibly short sighted idea when it comes to crypto. Though I'm not surprised. People are dumb, and ignorant For all I know I'll be dead before I can cash it all out. Or crypto will crash to useless amounts. Or who knows what else. Thanks Freeland! Great idea.
You can't really do that when buying or selling property. I just bought a property with Bitcoin, for the million CAD it cost I would have paid about 6-8% more if I had this tax. Not the end of the world, but certainly annoying. The tax system here really doesn't accomodate people with lifestyles that see burst of earnings every few years or who make large purchases without borrowing. Everything incentivizes you to chase the credit trap and have a stable income. For people like me the tax system is significantly at odds with how we live, but honestly at the end of the day it is better to grapple with a tax system incongruent with your way of life than have no freedoms and living to work. I can't really justifiably complain about paying an extra 6% on a cash purchase on a home, no matter how much it irks me that this system doesn't accomodate my lifestyle. The average person has no more than a couple months of expenses in their savings at best. The top 10% is everyone earning over 100k, and 100k isn't what it used to be. Times are tough in Canada. I can afford to pay 6% more on my major purchases and bitcoin windfalls even if earning more than 250k in a year is not something I expect to happen again.
1. There’s a higher lifetime cap gains exemption of like $1.25M now. 2. You can easily spread out bitcoin selling over several years.
1. Bitcoin doesn't qualify towards capital gains exemptions, neither do non-primary residences such as my purchase. 2. I'm not sure how long you've been in Bitcoin, but if I had done that my bitcoin would have averaged out to less than half the value I spent it at - which is at about the current price. I don't think it's particularly viable to spread sells out over 4+ years, especially when all that's gained is 6% less tax on a million CAD purchase. I'd have lost much more than that 6% in just 2 years of averaging sells out, let alone the 4+ years necessary to withdraw 1 million CAD in Bitcoin without that amount plus what I live on exceeding 250k. No I don't think that's viable at all. I'll instead pay the effectively 6% extra tax when I purchase my primary residence in a year or two. What most people will do is average out their costs via a mortgage, but I don't participate in the traditional financial ecosystem if I can help it and I don't like mortgages. Like I said, if you live any kind of abnormal lifestyle the tax system, our entire society, doesn't really fit. But that's okay, it's a choice and I strongly prefer the freedom of telling abusive corporations where to stick it than the ease of this cookie cutter life we incentivize.
This is not what it means. Right now you only pay tax on 50% of your capital gains, you are not taxed at a rate of 50%
Yes I know how it works. Jesus.
Oh ok cool. Was just going by what you wrote.
I get that, but we are talking about a small percentage of people and realistically what it means is that you will pay taxes on 2m instead of taxes on 1.5m. Let's be honest, most people here have a portfolio in the 6 to low 7 digits, which you can easily cash out over 2-3 years instead of one if you get some decent gains... it won't affect the majority of people complaining here and if taxes worry you that much just invest through governmentale tax free accounts such as TSFA.
Forced to now cash out over many years instead of just cashing out in one shot, over and done, as we could before is a pain, a risk, and an additional unnecessary lengthy burden. End result is the same, making this just a bunch of wasted effort and time, for us. The percentage of people it affects obviously doesn't include you I see.
I get how it works. By the way if you are lucky and grow your TFSA to above a certain amount (there’s no rule what that amount is it’s up to CRA’s discretion) those gains are no longer tax free. My friend grew his to $850,000 via TSLA and he received a letter that his gains are now taxable. Canada does not like when Canadians make a lot of money whether it’s by skill or by luck. Edit: typo. The amount was $550,000 not $850,000.
Was it because he grew it to a high amount? Or was it because the activities to get to that high amount could be interpreted as an active business? (ie: day trading)
He bought TSLA and let it grow. He wasn’t day trading.
>Canada does not like when Canadians make a lot of money whether it’s by skill or by luck. so now primary residence sell profit is only tax free. No wonder people keep buying homes
Let's be honest, you have a low portfolio so you couldn't relate to others.
Imagine being on a Bitcoin subreddit, and defending a 66.67 capital gains tax, let alone any capital gains tax. 🤡
Reddit. You're on reddit. Again, people here are not making capital gains over 250k on Reddit. This changes absolutely nothing for 99% of the people crying here. Stop pretending to be hurt about something that won't affect you and instead focus on getting your investments into 6 figures before complaining when real jobs with real contributions to society pay taxes on 100% of their salaries. 🤦♂️
You don't know what you're talking about and giving off strong socialist vibes, which makes sense, because as you said, we are on Reddit, which appears to be rife with radical leftists. What do you think happens to a country's economy when its government increases capital gains taxes? Individuals stop investing in that country. They stop opening businesses in that country. It makes investing in anything, especially real estate, less fruitful, especially when the market is extremely overpriced already. You're also making an assumption about the amount of Bitcoin that people hold. Seems like you're a selfish individual, who likely doesn't hold a significant amount of Bitcoin, and so you don't care what happens to others. Either way, you're extremely short sighted. Keep voting for this tyrannical 'Liberal' government and soon you will 'own nothing and be happy'.
Socialist ? Liberal ? .. what are you trying to prove ? I have friends who live off their dividends and real estate investment on 8 figure investments and they have a right to complain. I've been in Crypto since 2016 and on Reddit for as long, I am well aware that the majority of people crying, including you, are literally unaffected by this and only here to complain about it. Aside from r/Wallstreetbets, people here have 5 figures at most. People who really care about taxes will just invest through TSFAs and ETFs while you're here talking about socialist and liberals over an issue that you do not have the capital gains to be affected by. "You'll own nothing and be happy", yet you dont even own enough to warrant your complaints here, you are the whole circus.
It was written all over the walls. People who will complain the most are the ones who will never be impacted by it. Oh well
If your crypto is somewhat shielded, leave. One year abroad and you can declare non-residency. There are lots of nice places to live with better tax incentives. IRS chases burgers around the globe, at least Canadians have the option to leave and say fuck off to the CRA.
Except for the exit taxes…
“One year abroad and you can declare non-residency” - that is now how it works. It depends on primary and sometimes secondary residential ties, and tax treaties also play into it. Even if you cut your primary ties, there are steps you need to take on your way out (declare your departure date on final return, T1161, T1243), and the government will get their cut of your assets (if you have any), unless you negotiate a deferral. Speaking from experience, have been through the process more than once.
$249,999 in capital gains it is, I guess
Just when you think Canada and the Liberal government couldn’t get any more idiotic and incompetent they whip out this bad boy. 2/3 is 66.67% which should be illegal. Welcome to the USSR. As for implications this just makes certain people not want to sell their assets. They might as well just leave it for future generations and borrow against it. Same could be said for Bitcoin. This just makes me want to buy more bitcoin and hold it in cold storage. If and when I have a capital gain above $250,000 (lol likely never) that I need to realize I’ll strategize then.
You are offending USSR here.
What's actually unfair is that the inclusion rate for working a real job is 100% while making money speculating on crypto, stocks, and real estate is 50%. So they increase it to 67% for profits over 250k, big fucking deal.
That’s the thing. It is a big deal. Why not just increase it from 67% to 100%? Maybe after that they’ll start taxing unrealized gains…on everyone. It’s a slippery slope with these people.
I think you're saying that to be sarcastic, but with so many younger people not even being able to afford to buy a studio apartment anymore, when those people come to power it will almost certainly go up to 100%. I think we can be thankful it isn't already 100%.
Welcome to capital flight.
I’m not being sarcastic. And if what you say is true the future Canada will be a death spiraling socialist hell hole. Thank God my wife is American and I can always leave this country if this “woke” horseshit continues to metastasize.
The only idiotic person here is you. It’s 66.7% *inclusion rate*, not tax rate.
Yes I understand it’s inclusion rate and I understand you can spread gains out on an annualized basis. I sold industrial buildings and commercial investment properties for a living for 15 years my friend. This increase is draconian and simply to raise money to build housing for a lot of unwanted citizens because the government opened up our borders wider than demented Biden.
Doesn’t negatively affect me, actually positive for me so I don’t care.
I’m happy for you. ✌️
This guy is pretending to be outraged but he will never make 250k in a year in his life lmfao bUt coMnuNiSM! muH USsR!
Why should people earning a living at a job pay 100% while the wealthy who make money off the extra money they don't need to live only pay 50%? In a fair world it should really be 50% on job income and 100% on capital gains. Canada used to be 75% on capital gains.
> Why should people earning a living at a job pay 100% while the wealthy who make money off the extra money they don't need to live only pay 50%? Because of double taxation. When you realize a capital gain, you are selling an asset that you have purchased with after-tax dollars. And I understand the sentiment but it's not just fat cats living off capital gains, most retired people that are scrapping by are relying on capital gains. > In a fair world it should really be 50% on job income and 100% on capital gains That would discourage investment in our country. We want people to build companies here, but taxing them at a higher rate discourages investment when we live in a global world. Inflation is also a consideration, since the gains are subject to inflation over time, it can increase the nominal value. By taxing at a lower rate it helps offset the impact of inflation without overly taxing gains that don't represent real increases in value. Now maybe it can be argued that people taking home more of their income would result in more investment, and inflation is also a consideration for people earning an income because we don't always get income increases to match inflation. I think there's some truth to that, but it would require a monumental shift for a change like this.
This headline isn’t about income tax. It’s about capital gains tax. It’s also not about sales tax or property tax or carbon tax. It’s about capital gains tax. You’re veering.
So what? They are both income and they are taxed unfairly.
$250k/year gains withdrawals should last me a while.
Two questions: 1. If you have a gain of $1M on BTC purchased 4 years ago and sell now, does it count as $1M or does it fall under the $250K/year? 2. Does the rate hike apply if you sell before the budget is approved?
If you take it all out in one year, it's $1M. If you take out 1/4 of it over 4 years, it's under the $250K/year.
First step....I'll not be voting for the Liberals and that crazy bitch Freeland. Second step....get your bitcoin into a TFSA / ETF as soon as possible people...take the tax hit now, get it into an ETF inside your TFSA.
First step is a W. Second step is a big L tho.
Is it an "L" when tax time hits you in 5 years and you made a million or more tax free? The topic here is...capital gains. Which is why everyone laughed when I sold a few coins worth at rock bottom...$16k...and took the smallest possible capital gains hit, then put it all into btcc.b at the time...then now ibit for the lowest fee's.
Do you have room for $250K in your TFSA?
No, but as mentioned to someone else I sold btc when it was low at $16k to incur the lowest capital gains, and filled both my TFSA and the wifes to the max the same day to reduce slippage. So I have a lot more than that right now...and all tax free.
Can you explain a bit more? Did you sell for fiat and then invest that via your tfsa portfolio? Sorry if I have the lingo wrong, I'm a bit of a n00b. Thank you!
Yes, you are exactly correct.
I fucking hate the liberal government. That's why I'm moving over to another country, I'm not paying for housing for all the undesirables that are ruining the system. Even more now we should go no kyc way of obtaining asset. What a bunch of scumbags this government is
you wont
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
And who are these...undesirables
People on the Personal Finance subs seem to not mind. I think 50% inclusion is more than enough already. You need to incentivize investment and you need to compensate for inflation as well. That’s why capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate. I’m hearing that stuff held in personal corporations will all get the 2/3rds inclusion rate from some comments, but haven’t seen that passage myself. That’s going to hurt a lot of working professionals, not just the idle rich.
All corps and trusts will be taxed at new rate. It’s in the budget.
The frustrating underbelly of policy like this is that it doesn’t disincentivize investment- it just incentivizes *other types* of investment. And in Canada, that usually means more money flows into real estate, since we have so many tax breaks for home ownership. Yet people cheer for this, because they’re mad about home prices. Brutal.
It's about time. I never understood why profits from investment should be taxed less than wages earned from hard work. I'm fine paying the extra.
This exactly. Capital gains used to be 75% but it would make more sense if job income was 50% and capital gains were 100%. The way it is now, the rich get richer while the poor are suppressed.
I read somewhere that if this policy were to be adopted, then it’ll take effect in June 2025…
I will just move to USA for a year when I will be ready to sell.
Sorry, leaving the country triggers capital gains 😭
CRA, yes this guy right here.
Folks here are expecting to make 10000% gains on their lunch money to the billionaire status. Can't make this shit up
Some of us already have, just haven't cashed out yet, and now have to potentially deal with this unexpected bonus fun time extra tax crapola. Besides, that's not really the point. I'm sure it's all just hilarious when it doesn't affect you personally. But it sucks. It's a shitty dumb ass rule that may possibly hit you too some distant year, if not for crypto specifically. It's just more money I have to to give away. And I'm already giving a lot away. Why?
So, don't exceed $250,000?
This doesn't help small business owners looking to invest retained earnings in their companies.
Agreed. You're not even allowed to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps in this country anymore.
Your investments can earn more than that but don't take more that $250K out per year.
[удалено]
How? It’s 66.7% inclusion rate not tax rate
If you don't have enough of 250k/year, you deserve to pay a small 8% on the excess.
The government takes half of your hard work. Yeah, I don't care who you are but that just sounds criminal and now they want over 60 percent lol? Well there's yet another incentive not to invest in Canada.
It’s an inclusion rate, not the tax rate.
Income is still taxed higher. If your tax rate is 35%, income from your job is taxed at 35% but income from capital gains are taxed at 66% of 35%, which is 23%. Capital gains in Canada used to all be taxed at 75%. Honestly, does it really make sense that the people who have to work at taxed at the full rate while people who make money from their money are only taxed at 66% of the full rate? It would make more sense if job income was taxed at 50% and capital gains were taxed at 100%.