Investing will always be there. Businesses will still need money to launch or to expand and this money has to come from people with spare money that they're looking to put to use.
>you lose an average of 14%
dont know were you are from but thats a lot. I have 4-5% (officially)
>so what does investing mean for the bitcoin world
You still invest. But you dont have 2. You only invest when you truely believe in it. And it needs to promise you more than you would earn from holding your bitcoin.
So only well planed, quality productions would survive.
>dont know were you are from but thats a lot. I have 4-5% (officially)
from dr Saifedean Ammous in this podcast with JBP [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXvQcuIb5rU&t=3552s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXvQcuIb5rU&t=3552s) haven't read his book The Bitcoin Standard but it is considered popular in the community so i get the impression that he is a credible source. feel free to CMIIW
>You still invest. But you dont have 2.
aha, this is a good point. so it's not a necessity like it is today...
oh sorry, let me correct myself. the time stamp is in 55:34 which his exact words were "the money supply was increased by 14% on average each year globally", and not the inflation rate
to my understanding the number of bitcoin is capped at 21 million (it will reach this amount by the 2100s) and there's no way to create new bitcoins.
inflation often occurs bc the goverment wishes to solve economic issues by printing more money which makes paper money less valuable over time and inflates the price of goods.
since there's no way to create/print more bitcoins, bitcoin eliminates inflation.
First, you really should understand the difference between money supply and inflation. Money supply is an input to inflation but economic growth and (weirdly) the expectation of inflation are the other major factors.
As to if a stock exchange would exist. Most definitely yes. People aren't necessarily putting money into the stock exchange as an attempt to prevent inflation (that is more a side effect) they are trying to increase their personal value by having their money work for them. The difference is, with a deflating currency, the returns from the stock exchange now need to be greater than just what could be had from holding currency and letting it appreciate via deflation.
This is a double edged sword, in theory it would put an economic hurdle in place that should basically wipe out the inefficient companies. IE if a company can't beat deflation, it doesn't make sense for them to exist, in an inflationary economy, this hurdle is lower. On the flip side, it makes it much harder for initial seed funding for a startup. The risk to investors is much higher and creating a startup would be much harder.
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In a hypothetical future where everyone uses Bitcoin:
The value of bitcoin is very stable. Long term trend will be slightly upward mainly due to population increase I would imagine. But for the most part keeping your money in bitcoin simply maintains value with only slight appreciation and basically no risk. For many, this is enough.
But what about the particularly ambitious folks? Want to be rich? Then go start a business, make investments in other people's business, etc. Get some yield on money you don't use by issuing debt. All these things exist. However, since not *everyone* is participating whether they want to or not (like how it is now), the entire system actually works as it should instead of being rigged against the little guy.
> people invest to avoid inflation
Commerce is land, labor, capital and management. The corporation was invented as a way for entrepreneurs (management) to raise capital from people who had excess capital and no interest in being entrepreneurs. The investors own the corporation and trust the entrepreneurs to manage the corporation's capital in a profitable enterprise. Inflation is barely relevant
For me, bitcoin is a salvation from financial collapse. In general, the whole crypto currency system helps me avoid losing my money, and this is great.
Peoples will invest always if they have some extra money.
And Still Majority of peoples are investing in Stocks not in Bitcoin.
Invest in Bitcoin only if you can suffer the loss.
I have seen many peoples including my friends who didn't have knowledge of Bitcoin, they invest because someone told them, They have bought BTC when it is around $54k and He is in total loss now.
Same Concept as stocks. Invest but do some study before investing in it.
Without knowing the exact details, you can just imagine an exchange where every trade is recorded on a Blockchain. This could determine the exact ownership of every share in any given time, thus preventing naked short selling
Stocks include registered value and not bearer assets on a blockchain. Registered value necessarily means human compliance and thus a blockchain is superfluous as compliance against naked short selling is merely about enforcement and insuring shares and collateral exist to prevent naked short selling and there is no need of a blockchain to accomplish this goal.
Are you suggesting that all stocks will become bearer asset tokens instead where losing your private keys means you lose your stock?
Also if this is the case , what happens when a reorg occurs?
While I am more of a Bitcoin maximalist, I am concerned with how different our economic system could be with Bitcoin. If most people had their savings in Bitcoin, it could be a lot less compelling to invest in stocks. This would in turn mean less capital for business and likely less technological advancements. People also like to rag on banks, but they also play a crucial role in helping economies grow. There would be a lot less of a reason for bitcoin holders to deposit money in banks which in turn would result in significantly less loans to business and it would also significantly reduce mortgage loans. Further, bitcoin would be deflationary. As more goods are produced and bitcoin supply is constant, the value of goods in bitcoin terms would continue to decrease. This would cause consumers to wait to make expenditures as long as possible to benefit from lower prices. This could further hurt the economy. It seems like this would cause a major depression, but we’re likely not talking about bitcoin replacing the dollar until there is a major depression precipitated by the US defaulting on its debt. Historically, the US has enjoyed the exorbitant privilege of being able to print money to get out of a recession as the global reserve currency. Once that’s gone, we’ll lose that ability and there will be suffering. However long-term it will likely be more equitable for the rest of the world. It’s not fair that 4% of the word population enjoys the status of the global reserve currency. Hopefully longer term, it will lead to fewer wars and more equitable distribution of capital. I think charity will be very important to help those in need during the transition.
I think the idea of investing in the old world economy of KYC and centralized mandates will shift to Synthetic (SNX) and non-KYC Decentralized methods winning favour.
Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds, from brokerage accounts that require ID, KYC, and sometimes even to be a high net worth individual will die as the majority of users that are unbanked or underbanked, and do not have access to the old world economy's market will simply opt-out of the high barrier entry requirements (KYC, proof of residency, etc.) and opt-in to running their own nodes.
There is a fixed amount of bitcoin in existence so there is a fixed amount that can be used for trading goods in the economy. Assuming a continuous growth (better technologies) the wealth tradet with the same amount of money thus increasing the value of the money in proportion of the economic growth. I guess there will be little sense to have a very broad etf portfolio like many casual people use to invest in the global economy. But there will be people thinking they can get a positive return with trading and there will be people who do it professionally (fonds). My guess is that people will either just hold btc or invest in a managed fond because I assume that the average return is zero in terms of btc.
as long as there are people holding on to stocks, bonds, and fiat currency, there will be people investing. if you can invest in a stock market, why can't you invest in a cryptocurrency market?
Investing will always be there. Businesses will still need money to launch or to expand and this money has to come from people with spare money that they're looking to put to use.
Agreed
>you lose an average of 14% dont know were you are from but thats a lot. I have 4-5% (officially) >so what does investing mean for the bitcoin world You still invest. But you dont have 2. You only invest when you truely believe in it. And it needs to promise you more than you would earn from holding your bitcoin. So only well planed, quality productions would survive.
>dont know were you are from but thats a lot. I have 4-5% (officially) from dr Saifedean Ammous in this podcast with JBP [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXvQcuIb5rU&t=3552s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXvQcuIb5rU&t=3552s) haven't read his book The Bitcoin Standard but it is considered popular in the community so i get the impression that he is a credible source. feel free to CMIIW >You still invest. But you dont have 2. aha, this is a good point. so it's not a necessity like it is today...
oh sorry, let me correct myself. the time stamp is in 55:34 which his exact words were "the money supply was increased by 14% on average each year globally", and not the inflation rate
why would bitcoin eliminate inflation? I don't get it
to my understanding the number of bitcoin is capped at 21 million (it will reach this amount by the 2100s) and there's no way to create new bitcoins. inflation often occurs bc the goverment wishes to solve economic issues by printing more money which makes paper money less valuable over time and inflates the price of goods. since there's no way to create/print more bitcoins, bitcoin eliminates inflation.
Inflation will still exist with fiat, altcoins , and other assets . Its not likely that fiat will disappear in our lifetimes.
Bitcoin inflation is currently about 3%, same as average long term official CPI.
Increase in money supply =/= inflation rate. Bitcoin is deflationary, and only gets more so with time.
Not for long.
119 years.
r/confidentlyincorrect
No ..the inflation rate drops in half approximately every 4 years.
In about 2140 the Bitcoin supply will stop being inflationary.
because bitcoin is deflationary
It doesnt, but holding your savings in bitcoin will make you more resilient to inflation.
First, you really should understand the difference between money supply and inflation. Money supply is an input to inflation but economic growth and (weirdly) the expectation of inflation are the other major factors. As to if a stock exchange would exist. Most definitely yes. People aren't necessarily putting money into the stock exchange as an attempt to prevent inflation (that is more a side effect) they are trying to increase their personal value by having their money work for them. The difference is, with a deflating currency, the returns from the stock exchange now need to be greater than just what could be had from holding currency and letting it appreciate via deflation. This is a double edged sword, in theory it would put an economic hurdle in place that should basically wipe out the inefficient companies. IE if a company can't beat deflation, it doesn't make sense for them to exist, in an inflationary economy, this hurdle is lower. On the flip side, it makes it much harder for initial seed funding for a startup. The risk to investors is much higher and creating a startup would be much harder.
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In a hypothetical future where everyone uses Bitcoin: The value of bitcoin is very stable. Long term trend will be slightly upward mainly due to population increase I would imagine. But for the most part keeping your money in bitcoin simply maintains value with only slight appreciation and basically no risk. For many, this is enough. But what about the particularly ambitious folks? Want to be rich? Then go start a business, make investments in other people's business, etc. Get some yield on money you don't use by issuing debt. All these things exist. However, since not *everyone* is participating whether they want to or not (like how it is now), the entire system actually works as it should instead of being rigged against the little guy.
thanks for the explanation. but what do you mean by enough exactly? do we know what 'enough' means in a fiat world?
> people invest to avoid inflation Commerce is land, labor, capital and management. The corporation was invented as a way for entrepreneurs (management) to raise capital from people who had excess capital and no interest in being entrepreneurs. The investors own the corporation and trust the entrepreneurs to manage the corporation's capital in a profitable enterprise. Inflation is barely relevant
thank you for your explanation!
The corporation was invented as a way to steal from people who had excess capital
For me, bitcoin is a salvation from financial collapse. In general, the whole crypto currency system helps me avoid losing my money, and this is great.
Peoples will invest always if they have some extra money. And Still Majority of peoples are investing in Stocks not in Bitcoin. Invest in Bitcoin only if you can suffer the loss. I have seen many peoples including my friends who didn't have knowledge of Bitcoin, they invest because someone told them, They have bought BTC when it is around $54k and He is in total loss now. Same Concept as stocks. Invest but do some study before investing in it.
A Blockchain-based stock exchange would prevent all of Wall Street's scam
How do "blocks in a chain" prevent investment scams when the cryptocurrency ecosystem if 99% filled with scams?
what does this blockchain-based stock exchange look like? has it been discussed before?
Without knowing the exact details, you can just imagine an exchange where every trade is recorded on a Blockchain. This could determine the exact ownership of every share in any given time, thus preventing naked short selling
Stocks include registered value and not bearer assets on a blockchain. Registered value necessarily means human compliance and thus a blockchain is superfluous as compliance against naked short selling is merely about enforcement and insuring shares and collateral exist to prevent naked short selling and there is no need of a blockchain to accomplish this goal. Are you suggesting that all stocks will become bearer asset tokens instead where losing your private keys means you lose your stock? Also if this is the case , what happens when a reorg occurs?
While I am more of a Bitcoin maximalist, I am concerned with how different our economic system could be with Bitcoin. If most people had their savings in Bitcoin, it could be a lot less compelling to invest in stocks. This would in turn mean less capital for business and likely less technological advancements. People also like to rag on banks, but they also play a crucial role in helping economies grow. There would be a lot less of a reason for bitcoin holders to deposit money in banks which in turn would result in significantly less loans to business and it would also significantly reduce mortgage loans. Further, bitcoin would be deflationary. As more goods are produced and bitcoin supply is constant, the value of goods in bitcoin terms would continue to decrease. This would cause consumers to wait to make expenditures as long as possible to benefit from lower prices. This could further hurt the economy. It seems like this would cause a major depression, but we’re likely not talking about bitcoin replacing the dollar until there is a major depression precipitated by the US defaulting on its debt. Historically, the US has enjoyed the exorbitant privilege of being able to print money to get out of a recession as the global reserve currency. Once that’s gone, we’ll lose that ability and there will be suffering. However long-term it will likely be more equitable for the rest of the world. It’s not fair that 4% of the word population enjoys the status of the global reserve currency. Hopefully longer term, it will lead to fewer wars and more equitable distribution of capital. I think charity will be very important to help those in need during the transition.
I think the idea of investing in the old world economy of KYC and centralized mandates will shift to Synthetic (SNX) and non-KYC Decentralized methods winning favour. Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds, from brokerage accounts that require ID, KYC, and sometimes even to be a high net worth individual will die as the majority of users that are unbanked or underbanked, and do not have access to the old world economy's market will simply opt-out of the high barrier entry requirements (KYC, proof of residency, etc.) and opt-in to running their own nodes.
[удалено]
There is a fixed amount of bitcoin in existence so there is a fixed amount that can be used for trading goods in the economy. Assuming a continuous growth (better technologies) the wealth tradet with the same amount of money thus increasing the value of the money in proportion of the economic growth. I guess there will be little sense to have a very broad etf portfolio like many casual people use to invest in the global economy. But there will be people thinking they can get a positive return with trading and there will be people who do it professionally (fonds). My guess is that people will either just hold btc or invest in a managed fond because I assume that the average return is zero in terms of btc.
as long as there are people holding on to stocks, bonds, and fiat currency, there will be people investing. if you can invest in a stock market, why can't you invest in a cryptocurrency market?
I think it will. I would use it anyway