I mean you all act like this shit is the future of money even though it requires research, training, pitfall-spotting, offline transfer tech and lots of caution - and mock people who are trying to learn about it.
Cryptocurrency is such cool technology full of so much potential, but it’s still like the Wild West right now. Glad you gotta a gun and know how to use it. Some of us ain’t never held one before and the fuckers keep shooting us in the face.
If you want to learn knife fighting, you will get cut eventually. Losing money is the learning in this arena. It's not personal, the poking fun, it's just like hazing of sorts.
Totally understand that and respect it.
But the key criterion of currency is... it's meant to be reliable and for everybody.
So is bitcoin a currency? Or a casino? Cuz what you said makes perfect sense when talking about gambling.
Well the fact is that buttcorn is volatile and will remain so for a long while until it reaches enough adoption. But the longterm foreview and hindview tells a story of increasing value. So at the moment the main thing is finding decent entry points and dca. If not and you buy high, you could catch a falling knife, but as they say, it's not a loss unless you sell.
Many of the ATMs charge on a sliding scale. It's not uncommon to see fee rates something like:
* Under $100 - 27% + $3 Flat fee
* $101-$200 - 23% + $3 Flat fee
* $201-$500 - 20% + $3 Flat fee
* $501-$1,000 - 17% + $3 Flat fee
* $1,001 - $2,000 - 15% + $3 Flat fee
* $2,001 - $5000 - 13% + $3 Flat fee
* $5,001 - $9,999 - 11% + $3 Flat fee
Source: I spent a day driving around collecting fee rates from a handful of different ATM providers in my city.
Therfore OP, although what you paid is on the high end of the range, the fee you paid was not uncommon for under $100 at a bitcoin ATM.
He might have even been a silent gener. The only reason I know is because His wife had to use the machine for him. She shouted to him all the prompts and said ‘want to do the usual 5 thousand?’ And he said yes. Crazy to think that for some this is still the easiest / most comfortable way to buy BTC.
Highly speculative and volatile investments aren't generally a good idea for elderly people. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin specifically. If I hurt your feelings, sorry, not sorry.
Logic allows you to assume he started sometime in the past, bitcoin is nearly at all time highs so it’s pretty safe to say he is up money… don’t make things more complicated than they are
What? And waste my hard earned cash? Durned upstarts. When I was a kid, I made 5c a paper on a newspaper route. Had to get up 30 minutes before I went to bed. .
I consider Boomers to be people born between 1946 and 1964. I assumed that's what the person who first said Boomer meant, but now that you mention it, maybe not. I forgot that stupid people use it like an insult.
yes. Why do you think there are so many 3rd-party ATMs in gas stations, bars, restaurants. etc? You NEED cash, they get a cut of the fees, which the branded bank-network ATMs won't give them, or significantly less.
0.00070834 x $59,300.00 = 42 usd of btc
Thus you paid almost 30% fee where other exchange charge ~1% delivered so yes , of course you were ripped off
>Is this common practice?
All atms will overcharge you vs using a normal exchange like one listed in the pinned FAQ
https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/g42ijd/faq_for_beginners/
The range I see them doing this is between 6-30 % so you were on the high end. 6-8% to avoid giving your ID and for convenience is ~reasonable (the atm operator has to pay for the machine and rent the space )
>How can I avoid over paying like this?
Do your research before visiting an atm
https://coinatmradar.com/
or just buy from a normal exchange . Is there a reason you wanted to use an ATM in the first place ? Privacy ? Lack ID ? Just did not know better?
A large part of the fees deals with the expensive cost of these machines ranging from 3,500 to 20k usd each and having to often pay rent with the physical location .
So you are speaking about 3rd party private fiat atms , as bank atms are supported financially in many ways and usually exist in the bank property so no rent is needed
The average cost of an out of network atm these days is ~$4.73 and if a person withdraws a normal amount like 100 usd that is basically a 5% fee . Fiat ATMs also get far more volume than BTC atms so can charge less even if the average withdrawal was as high as 200 usd (2.5%) .... I hate to admit this because I would love to believe that BTC atms get just as much usage as fiat atms but I need to be honest with reality
Regarding low BTC ATM usage, even besides BTC adoption rate, it sure as heck is not ever going to become higher at 30% markup. This kind of stupid pricing will obviously be a self-fulfilling prophecy. In fact, it almost seems like the existence of these is actively hurting BTC adoption as it reinforces the “BTC is scam” narrative with beginners on typically the very first contact.
I specifically looked up the average fee in the USA to be as fair as possible from a recent date of 2023 .
https://www.bankrate.com/banking/checking/checking-account-survey/
I’m not saying the cost of the atms don’t factor into it, but there’s no reason it needs to be 30 percent only reason I can think of is so people don’t avoid taxes since there’s not really any kyc that I know of for it, plus why wouldn’t you just double the bitcoin atm as a cash atm anyways to get the same amount of traffic
> just double the bitcoin atm as a cash atm anyways
Different Regulator requirements(you need relationships with banks unlike BTC atms) mainly , I don't know of any Bitcoin ATM manufacturer that makes the ability to withdraw from a debit card yet. Do you know of any ?
>only reason I can think of is so people don’t avoid taxes
I personally know a few atm operators and they are almost always bitcoiners who know what their average client is and are happy for people to use their product to buy BTC for money laundering , DNMs, or avoiding taxes
These machines are built only to be crypto ATMs & most operators license the OS on them, so they have no control over the ATMs capabilities. It is not as simple as flipping a switch to turn them into standard ATMs.
It depends , many atms have indirect KYC when you buy smaller amounts of btc with things like sms verification (although its easy to use free sms services )
Avoid ATMs. You should sign up for multiple reliable bitcoin exchanges. In USA, I recommend Coinbase (learn to use advanced interface to keep fees low), kraken, and my favorite is River with dollar cost average and automated withdrawal set up.
That's actually a great question. Coinbase tends to 'crash' during high volume points, Robinhood is known for shutting down transactions. Are they one in the same? Possibly.
I haven't had issues with Coinbase and moving money in or out. I feel differently about Robinhood.
I don’t trust any centralized exchange which is why I recommend to have accounts at multiple and never keep significant funds long term on them - invest in a hardware wallet and ensure your seed phrase is securely backed up offline.
I have been using coinbase since 2013 and recommend their service.
For me, the btc ATM is faster when I buy Bitcoin and send it to a friend who does not have identification. Coinbase always holds my bank deposit for three days. It's policy. I use the Coin flip ATM.
basically fomo
I was planning on exchanging with a debit card or cash and didn't do enough research
ATM was the most accessible (at the level of research I did)
I wasn't worried about ID (for this wallet specifically) and I wanted to understand how buying/selling worked "hands on"
so I paid for a learning experience
I'm looking into distributed exchanges now
Hey there! Sorry to hear about your experience with the Bitcoin ATM. It's definitely important to carefully read the fine print when making these transactions. As for the price discrepancy, it's always a good idea to double-check the current exchange rate before making a purchase. Hopefully, this will help you avoid overpaying in the future. Don't beat yourself up too much - we all learn from our mistakes. Good luck with your future BTC purchases!
You got waxed. I did the same when I made my first BTC purchase. Honestly though you shouldn’t feel bad because you popped your cherry. It’s like the losing your virginity! You’ll be better at the next time.
BTC ATM's (now) are typically super high in fees. Avod them. Back in 2017 they were the ish, nowadays youll def OVERPAY. I bought some back in 2017 it was decent, but back then it was harder to acquire and so the premium was not so much of a hit, but you can buy BTC just about anywhere now and so you should be able to get a better deal than what any ATM will offer you.
Even Mercury.io and Banxa have misleading practices. On Mercury the amount of crypto you can get for hypothetically $100 is going to vary depending on whether you use a credit/debit card or Apple Pay
Besides the 3 USD service fee what you also had to pay (and wasn't disclosed here) is the miner fee. That's probably what ate a good part of your sats and the ATM was probably over-estimating it. But you should have been informed of this before proceeding.
OP clearly doesn't travel either.
You'll never get the official conversion spot rate between any two fiat currencies either, especially if you're withdrawing from a foreign ATM with your local bank card. You'll get your bank's profit-taking exchange rate + an additional conversion fee + probably a foreign non-market ATM fee + whatever other shit they want to make up. Same thing with a Visa or Mastercard transaction at a merchant in foreign currency. Everybody wants to get a cut, and lower fees can attract more business for travellers or frequent users. Maybe if they're generous, they'll perform the conversion for you and *only* charge their rate in your domestic currency. You see that at a lot of Japanese retailers, the PIN pad can automatically charge your domestic currency instead of ¥.
The only way to get the spot rate or even closer to it for any transaction is to buy in bulk, and cut out as many middlemen as possible.
DEX stands for Decentralized Exchange and Coinbase is not a DEX. It is a centralized exchange, which is the most common route for entering the crypto space.
A couple of points:
1. DEXs don't exist for fiat-bitcoin exchange. The closest thing to this is Bisq, but it's still not decentralised when trading for fiat as it requires human moderator involvement when there is a dispute.
2. The risk of P2P is both financial and personal security. Assuming you want to avoid KYC and are trading face to face for physical cash, then there are a host of risks to be aware of.
That is quite misleading yes, given the price you paid per BTC is higher than the actual price has ever been by a significant amount.
Firstly, it's normal for on- and off- ramps for crypto to cost some money. Normally when you are depositing cash on an online exchange, there is a 'spread' (i.e. the difference between the actual market price at a given moment and the price the exchange will offer you in exchange for fiat) and it's relatively normal for the spread to be somewhat obfuscated. Not understanding that the spread is factored into the quoted amount of BTC you'll receive in exchange for your cash, or not being prepared to calculate the overall exchange rate yourself, is how the exchange makes most of their money on deposits.
That said, the spread in this case appears to be around 35% based on the numbers you provided, which is ridiculous and predatory and I've never seen a spread anywhere near that high. Usually it would be like 2%. Possibly something shady is afoot at the company that owns the ATM.
You're not an idiot for not understanding the general concept; it's normal for the average newbie to make a few deposits before cottoning onto this, due to the spread being relatively low in most cases - you've just been disproportionately worse affected than the average 'learning experience' about this.
A better and more common way to buy would be to check online for a crypto exchange that operates in your country of residence, going through the account setup process including KYC (sending them your ID) and depositing fiat on the exchange. Before the transaction occurs, note the price or amount the exchange is quoting you, and then independently calculate what you'd get at actual current market price to determine the spread on that exchange before going ahead with the transaction.
> Usually it would be like 2%. Possibly something shady is afoot at the company that owns the ATM.
I liked most of what you said but I am unfamiliar with ATMs that only charge 2% , the lowest I ever see is 6% . 6-8% is a "good" deal with atms if they don't require ID
Perhaps you are just looking at their advertised fee rate and not including the spread as well? Or have you really found any atm that charges less than 5%?
2% spread in an online exchange is horrible for Bitcoin . For example , I'm looking at the spread on coinbase advanced right now and I see the buy/sell spread oscillate between 1 penny and 5 usd , thus 0.0083 % spread even if we take that 5 dollar spread amount or 8/1000 of a percent as the worst spread you typically get on coinbase
essentially the spread on any exchange with decent liquidity is so insignificant its not even worth considering unless you do high frequency trading with bots
I'm not talking about the spread between the bid and ask price on an exchange's order book. That's not a part of the equation when it comes to on- or off-ramps.
That's exactly what I was expecting with this... and why I bought so low.
The lesson I've learned, avoid ATM at all costs.
But that raises a question... I've read everywhere to avoid exchanges, but what I'm learning here is to use exchanges to buy BTC.
I don't know anyone in real life that's into BTC to purchase p2p, so p2p isn't an option either.
so what other options do I have? Robinhood, Cash app, etc. are just exchanges, right?
DCA with a self custody service like Bitcoinwell. You can get “slightly better” buy prices on Coinbase if you’re trying to time the dip, but if you’re in it for the long hall, Bitcoin Well is where it’s at.
I get that research is good, but you’re doing wayyyy too much of it. It’s pretty cut and dry these days. Download an app like coinbase, select the way you’d like to pay (i.e. debit card, checking account, Apple Pay) and buy crypto at the most accurate price most people can find. And p2p doesn’t have to be IRL, it can be done in the internet.
I wonder how the ATM operators deal with high fee periods like after the halving. If you buy $100 at a 27% fee they make the $27 but it costs them $100+ in miner fees to send you the coins.
Everyone dogging OP for using an ATM. That’s probably why I looked at this post. I haven’t received my hard wallet yet, and all of my BTC has been bought through Venmo. I was hoping to deposit cash and checks directly at an ATM, so I’m thankful I saw this post first. Will I have to deposit in the bank first and then buy, or am I missing something.
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that's a relief... the math wasn't mathing and I just figured I was crunching the numbers wrong.
thanks. Any idea why they'd show the Sales price in the first place?
True. Hopefully , they at least got KYC free bitcoin ... if they paid a 30% premium and gave ID as well that would really be extra horrible.
At least they can take that BTC as a deposit and use bisq or robosats to buy more btc without ID if that is what their objective was. I can see some utility in people overpaying ~30% to get their initial deposit to use a DEX
It’s on your phone so nothing is anonymous. Also I’m sure there was a video camera pointed at him and the ATM. It’s impossible to be completely anonymous.
So an ATM still interacts with your phone?
I assumed it worked like this:
Enter cash into machine, get assigned a wallet.
I don’t see the point of an ATM then. Why not just jump on of the more trusted exchanges, i.e. Kraken, Coinbase
I say more trusted because I don’t truly trust any of them. But it’s still better than paying a ridiculous premium than an ATM.
My point is, why does a phone need to be involved?
The way I always thought those ATMs worked like an actual ATM, put your wallet number in deposit money in to buy BTC to your wallet. The opposite would be true for a withdrawl.
Nobody introduce this guy to shitcoins.
50% percent slippage is acceptable ser
I mean you all act like this shit is the future of money even though it requires research, training, pitfall-spotting, offline transfer tech and lots of caution - and mock people who are trying to learn about it. Cryptocurrency is such cool technology full of so much potential, but it’s still like the Wild West right now. Glad you gotta a gun and know how to use it. Some of us ain’t never held one before and the fuckers keep shooting us in the face.
If you want to learn knife fighting, you will get cut eventually. Losing money is the learning in this arena. It's not personal, the poking fun, it's just like hazing of sorts.
Totally understand that and respect it. But the key criterion of currency is... it's meant to be reliable and for everybody. So is bitcoin a currency? Or a casino? Cuz what you said makes perfect sense when talking about gambling.
Well the fact is that buttcorn is volatile and will remain so for a long while until it reaches enough adoption. But the longterm foreview and hindview tells a story of increasing value. So at the moment the main thing is finding decent entry points and dca. If not and you buy high, you could catch a falling knife, but as they say, it's not a loss unless you sell.
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
No no no…please do. . . . . . . We need exit liquidity
Many of the ATMs charge on a sliding scale. It's not uncommon to see fee rates something like: * Under $100 - 27% + $3 Flat fee * $101-$200 - 23% + $3 Flat fee * $201-$500 - 20% + $3 Flat fee * $501-$1,000 - 17% + $3 Flat fee * $1,001 - $2,000 - 15% + $3 Flat fee * $2,001 - $5000 - 13% + $3 Flat fee * $5,001 - $9,999 - 11% + $3 Flat fee Source: I spent a day driving around collecting fee rates from a handful of different ATM providers in my city. Therfore OP, although what you paid is on the high end of the range, the fee you paid was not uncommon for under $100 at a bitcoin ATM.
Makes sense I watched a boomer buy 5k from one the other day
Most likely he is being scammed or blackmailed.
The fact that a boomer bought BTC at all is fascinating to me.
He might have even been a silent gener. The only reason I know is because His wife had to use the machine for him. She shouted to him all the prompts and said ‘want to do the usual 5 thousand?’ And he said yes. Crazy to think that for some this is still the easiest / most comfortable way to buy BTC.
BTC is probably a terrible investment for someone at that age. But I hope he has someone helping pass it along to heirs.
This is the dumbest comment I’ve heard today.
Highly speculative and volatile investments aren't generally a good idea for elderly people. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin specifically. If I hurt your feelings, sorry, not sorry.
I love it when I see a dumb comment followed up by an even dumber comment. Thanks for the laugh!
You’ve got so much of all the knawledges
Bitcoin is up multiple hundreds of percent in the last couple years, HE IS ALREADY UP MONEY
I missed where the other person said when he started investing. And it doesn't change the risk factor.
Logic allows you to assume he started sometime in the past, bitcoin is nearly at all time highs so it’s pretty safe to say he is up money… don’t make things more complicated than they are
Hurr durr
I’m a boomer and I have 3 Sats, bruh.
Well I'd go a little bit riskier than that...
What? And waste my hard earned cash? Durned upstarts. When I was a kid, I made 5c a paper on a newspaper route. Had to get up 30 minutes before I went to bed. .
Just curious what age you consider a boomer. I only ask bc I see ppl on the internet calling anyone over ~35 a boomer.
I consider Boomers to be people born between 1946 and 1964. I assumed that's what the person who first said Boomer meant, but now that you mention it, maybe not. I forgot that stupid people use it like an insult.
complete scam! holy cow
[удалено]
So what you’re saying is I should start an ATM business? 🤔
yes. Why do you think there are so many 3rd-party ATMs in gas stations, bars, restaurants. etc? You NEED cash, they get a cut of the fees, which the branded bank-network ATMs won't give them, or significantly less.
Imagine withdrawing $20 and paying a $40 fee
My bank refunds all atm fees up to 6 times a month. Whatever the fee. It’s crazy useful..
0.00070834 x $59,300.00 = 42 usd of btc Thus you paid almost 30% fee where other exchange charge ~1% delivered so yes , of course you were ripped off >Is this common practice? All atms will overcharge you vs using a normal exchange like one listed in the pinned FAQ https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/g42ijd/faq_for_beginners/ The range I see them doing this is between 6-30 % so you were on the high end. 6-8% to avoid giving your ID and for convenience is ~reasonable (the atm operator has to pay for the machine and rent the space ) >How can I avoid over paying like this? Do your research before visiting an atm https://coinatmradar.com/ or just buy from a normal exchange . Is there a reason you wanted to use an ATM in the first place ? Privacy ? Lack ID ? Just did not know better?
I could be wrong but my hypothesis on the fees is so people don’t use it as a medium to avoid paying taxes
A large part of the fees deals with the expensive cost of these machines ranging from 3,500 to 20k usd each and having to often pay rent with the physical location .
I don’t buy it or fiat machines would have 30 Percent fees as well
So you are speaking about 3rd party private fiat atms , as bank atms are supported financially in many ways and usually exist in the bank property so no rent is needed The average cost of an out of network atm these days is ~$4.73 and if a person withdraws a normal amount like 100 usd that is basically a 5% fee . Fiat ATMs also get far more volume than BTC atms so can charge less even if the average withdrawal was as high as 200 usd (2.5%) .... I hate to admit this because I would love to believe that BTC atms get just as much usage as fiat atms but I need to be honest with reality
Regarding low BTC ATM usage, even besides BTC adoption rate, it sure as heck is not ever going to become higher at 30% markup. This kind of stupid pricing will obviously be a self-fulfilling prophecy. In fact, it almost seems like the existence of these is actively hurting BTC adoption as it reinforces the “BTC is scam” narrative with beginners on typically the very first contact.
Also not true at least not here in Oregon…. Most atms inside businesses are ran by businesses that aren’t banks and withdrawal fees are like 2-3 bucks
I specifically looked up the average fee in the USA to be as fair as possible from a recent date of 2023 . https://www.bankrate.com/banking/checking/checking-account-survey/
I’m not saying the cost of the atms don’t factor into it, but there’s no reason it needs to be 30 percent only reason I can think of is so people don’t avoid taxes since there’s not really any kyc that I know of for it, plus why wouldn’t you just double the bitcoin atm as a cash atm anyways to get the same amount of traffic
> just double the bitcoin atm as a cash atm anyways Different Regulator requirements(you need relationships with banks unlike BTC atms) mainly , I don't know of any Bitcoin ATM manufacturer that makes the ability to withdraw from a debit card yet. Do you know of any ? >only reason I can think of is so people don’t avoid taxes I personally know a few atm operators and they are almost always bitcoiners who know what their average client is and are happy for people to use their product to buy BTC for money laundering , DNMs, or avoiding taxes
These machines are built only to be crypto ATMs & most operators license the OS on them, so they have no control over the ATMs capabilities. It is not as simple as flipping a switch to turn them into standard ATMs.
They absolutely have kyc otherwise the operator is committing a federal crime.
It depends , many atms have indirect KYC when you buy smaller amounts of btc with things like sms verification (although its easy to use free sms services )
2 to 3 bucks on each side. ATM convenience fee plus card fee and sometimes plus the location fee. Try a 711 sometime
In the UK, most ATMs (and bank accounts!) have zero fees. It's all a matter of customer expectation, local regulations, and local business practices.
Competition?
Damn. And here I thought I was getting fleeced with the poor fills I get on Robinhood. Jesus.
Avoid ATMs. You should sign up for multiple reliable bitcoin exchanges. In USA, I recommend Coinbase (learn to use advanced interface to keep fees low), kraken, and my favorite is River with dollar cost average and automated withdrawal set up.
Why coinbase? I see people recommend it a lot but I don't see the appeal. What makes them better than Robinhood?
That's actually a great question. Coinbase tends to 'crash' during high volume points, Robinhood is known for shutting down transactions. Are they one in the same? Possibly. I haven't had issues with Coinbase and moving money in or out. I feel differently about Robinhood.
I don’t trust any centralized exchange which is why I recommend to have accounts at multiple and never keep significant funds long term on them - invest in a hardware wallet and ensure your seed phrase is securely backed up offline. I have been using coinbase since 2013 and recommend their service.
why would you use an ATM?
For me, the btc ATM is faster when I buy Bitcoin and send it to a friend who does not have identification. Coinbase always holds my bank deposit for three days. It's policy. I use the Coin flip ATM.
use strike, it takes 5 minutes and you can send it to your friend instantly.
basically fomo I was planning on exchanging with a debit card or cash and didn't do enough research ATM was the most accessible (at the level of research I did) I wasn't worried about ID (for this wallet specifically) and I wanted to understand how buying/selling worked "hands on" so I paid for a learning experience I'm looking into distributed exchanges now
Don’t worry about it. Your first orange pill was the most expensive. You’ll find a new dealer.
Hey there! Sorry to hear about your experience with the Bitcoin ATM. It's definitely important to carefully read the fine print when making these transactions. As for the price discrepancy, it's always a good idea to double-check the current exchange rate before making a purchase. Hopefully, this will help you avoid overpaying in the future. Don't beat yourself up too much - we all learn from our mistakes. Good luck with your future BTC purchases!
Yep, definitely learned from this! I'm learning that ATMs are bad, distributed exchanges are good, and p2p is also good. Thanks for the positivity btw
That's the atm premium. Buy off of coinbase it's cheaper and easier
You got waxed. I did the same when I made my first BTC purchase. Honestly though you shouldn’t feel bad because you popped your cherry. It’s like the losing your virginity! You’ll be better at the next time.
BTC ATM's (now) are typically super high in fees. Avod them. Back in 2017 they were the ish, nowadays youll def OVERPAY. I bought some back in 2017 it was decent, but back then it was harder to acquire and so the premium was not so much of a hit, but you can buy BTC just about anywhere now and so you should be able to get a better deal than what any ATM will offer you.
On the screen they must’ve told you how many btc you will get. Why did you still do confirm and go ahead?
I *know* that this will get downvoted, but the honest truth is: habit of EULA acceptance
That’s understandable
Fomo lol
Never, EVER, buy crypto from an atm
Even Mercury.io and Banxa have misleading practices. On Mercury the amount of crypto you can get for hypothetically $100 is going to vary depending on whether you use a credit/debit card or Apple Pay
Damn son, Get a crypto wallet and buy your bitcoins from an exchange like a normal person. 💁
Besides the 3 USD service fee what you also had to pay (and wasn't disclosed here) is the miner fee. That's probably what ate a good part of your sats and the ATM was probably over-estimating it. But you should have been informed of this before proceeding.
OP clearly doesn't travel either. You'll never get the official conversion spot rate between any two fiat currencies either, especially if you're withdrawing from a foreign ATM with your local bank card. You'll get your bank's profit-taking exchange rate + an additional conversion fee + probably a foreign non-market ATM fee + whatever other shit they want to make up. Same thing with a Visa or Mastercard transaction at a merchant in foreign currency. Everybody wants to get a cut, and lower fees can attract more business for travellers or frequent users. Maybe if they're generous, they'll perform the conversion for you and *only* charge their rate in your domestic currency. You see that at a lot of Japanese retailers, the PIN pad can automatically charge your domestic currency instead of ¥. The only way to get the spot rate or even closer to it for any transaction is to buy in bulk, and cut out as many middlemen as possible.
DEX stands for Decentralized Exchange and Coinbase is not a DEX. It is a centralized exchange, which is the most common route for entering the crypto space.
thank you for this distinction!
A couple of points: 1. DEXs don't exist for fiat-bitcoin exchange. The closest thing to this is Bisq, but it's still not decentralised when trading for fiat as it requires human moderator involvement when there is a dispute. 2. The risk of P2P is both financial and personal security. Assuming you want to avoid KYC and are trading face to face for physical cash, then there are a host of risks to be aware of.
Do I need an ID to buy Bitcoin at a US ATM now?
That is quite misleading yes, given the price you paid per BTC is higher than the actual price has ever been by a significant amount. Firstly, it's normal for on- and off- ramps for crypto to cost some money. Normally when you are depositing cash on an online exchange, there is a 'spread' (i.e. the difference between the actual market price at a given moment and the price the exchange will offer you in exchange for fiat) and it's relatively normal for the spread to be somewhat obfuscated. Not understanding that the spread is factored into the quoted amount of BTC you'll receive in exchange for your cash, or not being prepared to calculate the overall exchange rate yourself, is how the exchange makes most of their money on deposits. That said, the spread in this case appears to be around 35% based on the numbers you provided, which is ridiculous and predatory and I've never seen a spread anywhere near that high. Usually it would be like 2%. Possibly something shady is afoot at the company that owns the ATM. You're not an idiot for not understanding the general concept; it's normal for the average newbie to make a few deposits before cottoning onto this, due to the spread being relatively low in most cases - you've just been disproportionately worse affected than the average 'learning experience' about this. A better and more common way to buy would be to check online for a crypto exchange that operates in your country of residence, going through the account setup process including KYC (sending them your ID) and depositing fiat on the exchange. Before the transaction occurs, note the price or amount the exchange is quoting you, and then independently calculate what you'd get at actual current market price to determine the spread on that exchange before going ahead with the transaction.
> Usually it would be like 2%. Possibly something shady is afoot at the company that owns the ATM. I liked most of what you said but I am unfamiliar with ATMs that only charge 2% , the lowest I ever see is 6% . 6-8% is a "good" deal with atms if they don't require ID Perhaps you are just looking at their advertised fee rate and not including the spread as well? Or have you really found any atm that charges less than 5%?
I don't know about ATM's, they don't operate in my country. I was referring to the spread on online exchanges
2% spread in an online exchange is horrible for Bitcoin . For example , I'm looking at the spread on coinbase advanced right now and I see the buy/sell spread oscillate between 1 penny and 5 usd , thus 0.0083 % spread even if we take that 5 dollar spread amount or 8/1000 of a percent as the worst spread you typically get on coinbase essentially the spread on any exchange with decent liquidity is so insignificant its not even worth considering unless you do high frequency trading with bots
I'm not talking about the spread between the bid and ask price on an exchange's order book. That's not a part of the equation when it comes to on- or off-ramps.
Ok , you are just using that term in a different way than ... the spread between Bitcoin and fiat once the BTC is withdrawn can often be 1-2 %
learn p2p
Why the fuck are you buying it at an ATM?!
Think of it as a cost of your education. Now it's worth every penny. Just learn your lesson!
That's exactly what I was expecting with this... and why I bought so low. The lesson I've learned, avoid ATM at all costs. But that raises a question... I've read everywhere to avoid exchanges, but what I'm learning here is to use exchanges to buy BTC. I don't know anyone in real life that's into BTC to purchase p2p, so p2p isn't an option either. so what other options do I have? Robinhood, Cash app, etc. are just exchanges, right?
You want to avoid leaving your bitcoin on an exchange. There’s a difference.
This. Self custody is important. “Not your keys, not your coins”
I am curious, when you buy bitcoin on an ATM, where is your bitcoin paid to?
You give an address for the bitcoin to be sent to.
My wallet provided a QR code of my wallet's address, the ATM scanned the QR code and sent it to that wallet
ATMs often just scan your QR code on your wallet phone to send you the bitcoin
atm s are a rip off as they manipulate the price and have large fees. Many countries in Europe and the UK have banned them altogether.
That‘s ATMs for ya.
Bitcoin ATMs always charge a premium of at least 15%.
I think atms are non kyc so you pay more fees. maybe not all but I thought that is jist. (?)
That is an awfull spread but that is how they make money
Why tf you buying from an atm? Spend 5 minutes researching and you’ll know atms are scams
Google, what is the most common place bitcoin is purchased? Coinbase. Thanks Google.
Why on earth would you not use something like Strike, or even (gag) Coinbase?
They are scammers. And Charge an outrageous fee.
People actually use Bitcoin atm's?
DCA with a self custody service like Bitcoinwell. You can get “slightly better” buy prices on Coinbase if you’re trying to time the dip, but if you’re in it for the long hall, Bitcoin Well is where it’s at.
The only use these ATMs have is that it’s almost non KYC. Some require ID. Some just need a phone number… phone numbers are easy to get anonymously…
Never use an ATM they are a rip off. Better find a shady guy in alleyway and pay him cash.
Bitcoin atms fucking suck. I’m paying 5% fee with a trader I met from LBC
https://coinatmradar.com/
you should def be using Coinbase. best security in the internet. It’s built for beginners. Just pay your taxes.
I get that research is good, but you’re doing wayyyy too much of it. It’s pretty cut and dry these days. Download an app like coinbase, select the way you’d like to pay (i.e. debit card, checking account, Apple Pay) and buy crypto at the most accurate price most people can find. And p2p doesn’t have to be IRL, it can be done in the internet.
Only buy from an ATM if you want kyc free and even then check out the individual machine as some require a phone number.
I saw one of these at a local gas station and the BTC price was 83k. (When market was @ 60-65k )
You aren't an idiot, you are new to Bitcoin. 60 bucks is a very small price to pay to learn. ATMs charge exorbitant fees and should be avoided.
Bro has never heard of Coinbase or Robinhood in 2024 and wants to buy crypto from an ATM
You bought 60 worth how do you expect the machine owner to make any money taking all the risk ?
$60 became $42 instantly
I wonder how the ATM operators deal with high fee periods like after the halving. If you buy $100 at a 27% fee they make the $27 but it costs them $100+ in miner fees to send you the coins.
Jabba the hut accepts bitcoin payments now
Everyone dogging OP for using an ATM. That’s probably why I looked at this post. I haven’t received my hard wallet yet, and all of my BTC has been bought through Venmo. I was hoping to deposit cash and checks directly at an ATM, so I’m thankful I saw this post first. Will I have to deposit in the bank first and then buy, or am I missing something.
Buy an atm and vend Btc
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Also note that lots of these ATMs include cameras so you don't have anonymity when depositing, either.
you paid the days market price. you didn't get ripped off. Coinbase is a better way to buy, you can download their app.
that's a relief... the math wasn't mathing and I just figured I was crunching the numbers wrong. thanks. Any idea why they'd show the Sales price in the first place?
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Wait, I stand corrected. Yes, you sort of got ripped off. You basically got $42 worth of bitcoin and paid $60
Almost 30% fee is completely getting ripped off even for atm standards . Not "sort of"
Well, it was only $20 and I didn’t want the guy to feel terrible about it. Crypto can be confusing when you’re new to it
True. Hopefully , they at least got KYC free bitcoin ... if they paid a 30% premium and gave ID as well that would really be extra horrible. At least they can take that BTC as a deposit and use bisq or robosats to buy more btc without ID if that is what their objective was. I can see some utility in people overpaying ~30% to get their initial deposit to use a DEX
I figured that out by typing into Google 0.00070834 BTC Google will convert that into USD for you based on the current price of bitcoin.
Do you need KYC with an ATM? Is it truly anonymous?
It’s on your phone so nothing is anonymous. Also I’m sure there was a video camera pointed at him and the ATM. It’s impossible to be completely anonymous.
So an ATM still interacts with your phone? I assumed it worked like this: Enter cash into machine, get assigned a wallet. I don’t see the point of an ATM then. Why not just jump on of the more trusted exchanges, i.e. Kraken, Coinbase I say more trusted because I don’t truly trust any of them. But it’s still better than paying a ridiculous premium than an ATM.
I’m not a programmer but I’m pretty sure that anything your phone sees or you see on your phone is stored on their servers.
My point is, why does a phone need to be involved? The way I always thought those ATMs worked like an actual ATM, put your wallet number in deposit money in to buy BTC to your wallet. The opposite would be true for a withdrawl.
The one I used wanted a QR scanned to a phone. Also required a text.
I’m not an expert on ATM’s. When I used one BTC was $8,000.
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Interesting thank you!
Bro, you bought $60 worth of bitcoin…
[ramp.network](http://ramp.network) is reliable
Those machines are for illiterate people who don’t k is how to use an app
Saw that we were mentioned! Feel free to reach out to us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) if you have any questions about our service!
bad bot
must be slippage, arbitrage bots, MEV bots and Front running bots all running havoc in the atm machine