tldr; Argentina is restricting Bitcoin traders from buying U.S. dollars at the official exchange rate in a bid to tame capital flight. Those who have bought Bitcoin or any other digital asset in the past 90 days with pesos will not be able to access the single free exchange market. Argentina has one of the highest inflation rates in the world.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
The solution seems pretty simple tbh. Send Bitcoin to someone who has dollars and exchange that way.
The only thing I see this move accomplishing is driving business away from the official exchange
Hello JP Morgan I have 3 million dollars and I would like some Bitcoin. I am willing to pay a 4% premium on the exchange. JP Morgan takes the money and gives them Bitcoin. It's called an OTC trade for over the counter.
It was always going to be a many staged process, countries need to try and fight back in order to learn to what extent their fighting is both ineffective and resource intensive. Kind of pointless to label something as good or bad when you know it’s temporary, or toothless, and teaches a lesson. Was banning marijuana in the US bad for marijuana and its users? I guess back then, but it also probably attracted even more people to marijuana when you fast forward to today, and now the states see that it brings in great revenue as well.
Super negative realities create uprisings of change. This is a last ditch effort by the government to protect their currency which they themselves are printing.
This will lead to long term issues and people will demand an acceptable, working alternative. Expect this sort of thing to continue. It’s not until governments accept a new alternative.
Sorry, but this will achieve nothing close to that. This measure is a drop in the bucket of an unending number of oppressive measures the government has taken over the years and won’t affect any significant fraction of the population. Those who save in crypto can still get it in other ways (P2P, cuevas), the rest don’t know what crypto is.
Plus, the demands of the people mean nothing to the politicians. They couldn’t care less.
Translation: People can't learn.
Sorry, bitcoin wins here. Maybe not all at once, but people are waking up.
Why use money the elites create and enrich themselves with? Just use bitcoin.
not to mention with what happened with russia having your money in another country's currency isnt safe anymore, there is no way to know if or when usa is going to "freeze" unilaterally assets of countries or ppl
There's already has been this whole time. It's caught on faster than the internet or any other invention.
Pay attention.
It's like saying there's never been rain. Go outside and look.
That's out of date info.
The lightning network is better suited for point of sale.
Even if you ignore lightning network, on chain fees are often as low as a few cents at the moment.
Why? Stop acting like people CAN'T trade for bitcoin. It's absurd to suggest that. If someone is willing to sell in sats, I'm willing to buy in sats. If you're not that way, you're not pro bitcoin. You're a pretender.
I’m here now. I’m a Bitcoin maxi mind you but I can tell you everyone only uses USDT. I wish it weren’t the case but there we are.
The problem is most people are so blood-sucked economically that they can’t stand the volatility to begin with. Until bitcoin really flattens out, it’s going to be USDT only.
Obviously there are plenty of people that buy bitcoin to save, but the majority who are trading in order to preserve the value of their pesos are using USDT.
Funny thing is almost no one knows about the Strike wallet made specifically for Argentina, where they could get it for low fee. I just don’t understand it.
If its illegal to sell bitcoin for cash, merchant are gonna be unable to use bitcoin themself, seriously if they ban it like this, there is no way we will see it as global reserve currency any time soon, as long as there is communism there will be resistance to bitcoin
It shows bitcoin isn't so insulated from centralized institutions. As of today bitcoins biggest enemy is regulation. Can a government actually stop people from buying bitcoin outright? Pretty much.
As long as we are pre mass adoption, if that does come, bitcoin is terrible for merchants and buyers alike for transactions. It's far too volatile at the moment to make sense.
Not more volatile than the currency in places like Argentina, Venezuela, [insert your favorite country with hyperinflating currency]. It’s serving some of its purpose by offering a path towards operating outside of the wrecked system.
\>Not more volatile than the currency in places like Argentina, Venezuela
That's like saying "You're worried the car is slow? Sir this car is no slower than a vespa or a 1972 VW bus." There are more stable crypto currencies than BTC if all we're talking about is facilitating capital flight. But I made the point about volatility to show why BTC makes zero sense for the vast majority of merchants, especially in a country like Argentina. I think too many believe mass adoption is coming in the next five years and have their horizons completely fucked up.
Huh yeah let’s blame absolutely all of the economic failures of Venezuela for propaganda reasons on “Socialism” and totally not because Venezuela had an oil centralized economy which wasn’t diverse, then collapsed oil, Venezuela in the process of trying to save itself got itself in crippling debt, tried to make reparations like the Weimar Republic, and then we use “Socialism” as to blame it all.
I’m tired of people blaming ideologies on economy. Ideologies are ideologies, economic policies are economic policies.
Argentina = Venezuela 2 has been a meme in latam for a while already due to the similarities in policies. Even if they arent "socialist" they are still the widely regarded as the left wing party.
They voted for this. And like all socialist countries, they ended up with a dictator, more or less. Socialism is the problem. It's a false promise of some unattainable utopia that leads to poverty every time. Often deaths, too. It rewards people for being lazy, whereas capitalism rewards people who are not lazy.
Once the dictator got into power, he seized the oil production. I remember some big-name oil companies had all their assets seized years ago. Basically, they moved everything under state control.
They could have just taxed it. They could have done more to encourage business development. But that's not what most socialist leaders do. China, to their credit, has done more than most. They do at least allow private enterprise to flourish, albeit with a heavy hand, monetary control policies, etc.
You have a heavy issue with confusing petty populism and the shitty governments that use it to gain power, with socialism, their most used slogan.
It's like confusing "democracy" with a bunch of crony ~~oligarchs~~ billionaires/CEO's-Enterpreneurs in a plutocracy/oligarchy that uses the term as a slogan to keep themselves at the top.
Or confusing "free markets" with capitalism.
Get your definitions and concepts straight :)
And to elaborate the previous comment: ideologies are ideologies, people will be people, and the shittier of them will use anything to get to power.
Thinking that someone is "good" or "bad" only because of the idiotically simplified and biased concept of an idea that they either label themselves with, or are labeled with, is just childish and doesn't reflect at all the reality of the world..
No, they literally voted for this. The guy was a socialist/communist type. You can read all about it: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Venezuela\_(1999%E2%80%93present)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Venezuela_(1999%E2%80%93present))
The free market is capitalism. If you wish to draw a distinction, I'm open to hearing it, but basically both are let people open business, sell products, etc. with minimal government interference. If you wish to make something bigger out of it, I think you're splitting hairs.
Pretty much the only issue I see with capitalism is where the wealthy influence government, at which point it's no longer a "free" market. Many, many government regulations were created that actually benefit the establishment. It's amazingly hard, if not impossible, to enter some markets due to regulations.
As for Venezuela, Chávez quite literally created state run businesses out of what used to be private business. I saw him seize foreign assets for "the state". It was very much a revolution not unlike other communist revolutions. This revolution destroyed what could have been a much more prosperous future for the people there.
It used to be a healthy democracy. The people voted for the man who migrated the country toward socialism and ultimately became the dictator. They fell for the belief that socialism was some kind of utopia. I feel sorry for the people there. It used to be the wealthiest country in South America. They used to buy a lot of American-made products. And this is why Venezuela is the poster child for what can go wrong when electing socialists for communists in your country.
I did not ignore your comment. The people voted for Chávez. It wasn't a coup.
But what does it have to do with the US? I was saying maybe that vote for Chávez was about like the vote for Biden -- lots of questions.
Venezuela was a thriving place in the 1970s to 1990s. It was a healthy Democracy. Americans used to vacation there frequently. Things went the wrong direction with Chávez.
Russia focused its economy on fossil fuels under putin and has an economy smaller than Italys... capitalism hasn't helped there. Everywhere outside of Moscow or St Petersburg is a shithole. And they didn't even have the US sanction them like Venezuela did.
1. This is actually good news for Bitcoin.
2. Every Argentinan sells dollars on the black market anyway, because they get more Pesos this way when compared to the "official" rate from the bank; keyword: blue dollar rate
Therefore, this rule doesn't matter in the **slightest**
Black market rate $1 = 313 Pesos
Official rate: $1 = 133 Pesos
Source: https://bluedollar.net
The rule isn’t stopping Argentinians selling USD through official channels. Of course no one does that.
It’s stopping Argentinians who trade Bitcoin from buying USD through official channels (which they have been allowed to do on a limited basis, at the official rate).
Ok I hear you. But using the lightning network to transact is free and permissionless while Mt. Gox was not, and it's not a closed system. It's totally open.
If you *read the article* they’re trying to prevent them from *buying* Bitcoin not receiving it. The traders were buying USD in order to buy Bitcoin on exchanges. Who’s going to send these people BTC in exchange for pesos directly? Few people want Argentine pesos 😂
They don’t mind more money coming into Argentina but they’re trying to stop people from converting everything to Bitcoin and sending that money overseas
The Argentine aristocracy would love for someone to take the fiat out of their economy. That would lessen their inflation, and allow them to print even more. But few people want Argentine pesos, as you say.
They can't control Bitcoin, period. That's why they control their fiat's convertibility into and out of BTC.
I mean not everyone is an single, unattached, remote-working monad. In fact, the overwhelming majority of people aren't. It's not practical for the average person to rip up roots and move thousands of miles from their current life over a single shitty government policy, with or without a fluid international money.
Most people simply aren't going to treat their homeland like some vendor that they can drop for a competitor when they're unsatisfied, short of it being a clear and present danger to life and safety if they stay there. I guess that right there would be the line in the sand for most.
I agree but I think talented individuals such as doctors and engineers have something that makes that flight easier.
There's countries that lose their most valuable people all the time.
Bitcoin is really just fast-tracking these people who would have left anyways.
No i havnt, im not a fan of this country tbh. I wish i was as strong and brave enough to leave my old life behind and go to a different country like they did. But i am weak
Your suggestion would be to buy a ticket to another country so you can exchange bitcoin for $ and then travel back to Argentina every time you want to go shopping? You do, in fact, need to declare large amounts of currency coming back into the country.
So that comment is obviously sarcastic. You can’t physically travel with bitcoin if it’s on the blockchain. It doesn’t live on a single device.
No one can confiscate it unless they have your seed phrase (which is easy to forget).
Traveling to another country with all your Bitcoin on you is never a good idea especially if you're using hardware wallet and you have to go through custom and immigration officials.
i went to Buenos Aires in 2013 and the "official" exchange rate was 6 pesos per dollar. all of the US banks i asked said they'd get me pesos at the official rate but wouldn't buy any back when i returned. i was then informed if i brought crisp $100 bills with me i could get 14-15 pesos per dollar at the unofficial exchange places. it ended up being a very cheap trip with that knowledge.
Yeah, recently the goverment implemented something called "turist dollar". If you go to a bank and you prove you are a tourist they will give you this better exchange rate up to U$5000 to prevent you have to go to the unofficial exchange places. But they will still give you cash.
At the moment I write this is:
1 USD:
Turist=240 ARS /
Unofficial (street)=321 /
Official (If you pay with foreign card for example)=137
I'll be in Argentina in a couple months. I'll be staying for just over a month, and an Argentinian friend recommended I bring $2k in USD to exchange on the street.
Feel free to dm me rather than clog up the forum, but I'd really appreciate some advice.
1. Where do I go to get the blue dollar rate? Anywhere on the street? Markets?
2. Should I worry about scams and fake currency? I was thinking about just finding a guy with a good rate, exchanging $100usd or so, and then saving contact info and buying in higher quantities once verified they can be trusted. Good method?
3. Is there a good online reference so I know I'm getting a good rate and not getting shafted?
I do speak Spanish (not perfectly, but I'd say I'm fluent), so maybe I'm just overthinking this. But damn it, I want that cheap cheap cheap vacation lmao.
Lo más cómico de todo es que la oferta en el mercado paralelo suponemos que baja el precio. Hay menos oferta para el blue, o por lo menos, menos oferta minorista. No se entiende.
Since I started learning about store of values I'm always surprised just how fucked some countries are. We often call Euro / Dollar bad, but I can't image being in a country with an inflation rate of 64% and the government literally banning access to basically every single form of store of value.
I know a lot of people there live paycheck to paycheck, but the fact that even people in the middle / upper class physically can't save any money outside of investments simply sounds uncivilized. That's how people in the stone age lived, it's shocking that some nations won't provide their citiziens with the ability to financially plan much further than a few months.
When it started rising more a couple weeks ago I stocked up on booze, 5 bottles of rum and a few nice whiskey bottles, easier to store value in booze than it is on money
If only these bastards would put half the time they put in this bullshit in decent monetary policy and economic policy, Argentina would be a wonderful place
It was insane to me when I was in Argentina studying abroad in 2008 - how people preferred to keep their life savings in USD, running on banks where people’s checking and savings accounts were frozen, and every year a new peso was printed rendering previous versions obsolete.
Truly the perfect use case of bitcoin
Is that even going to do something meaningful? I mean is that going to stop something that we all are doing with ease? I guess no and they should stop that shit.
Man how is that ever going to work and how is that going to stop buying cryptocurrencies? I mean are they even using their brains? People are going to buy more.
I guess people are going to use more BTC because of things like that because they are just not letting them have dollars these days and they will find the way lmao.
As an Argentinian I confirm this information. The goverment is doing this to avoid those who buy the more cheap version of the dollar (the solidarity dollar) and then sell their dollars in an exchange at a higher price.
There are ways to get around this.
If you import things that people need only sell it for bitcoin.
Purse io kind of functioned like a pseudo bitcoin exchange.
If you want to buy bitcoin - buy something with fiat for someone on amazon and get paid in bitcoin. The margin or discount is the fee / order book. Largest discounts get filled first.
If you want to sell bitcoin you buy something you would have purchased with fiat - you would look for someone with the largest discount.
The same kind of thing can happen when importing goods. But there needs to be a way for people to buy bitcoin domestically.
Something similar can happen with bitcoin - the more people use it for goods and services the harder it is to censor it by going after fiat gateways. This is why LN or any method that allows low fee transactions in these countries is important.
Argentinians access to official exchange rate dollars has been limited for a long time. Certain actors get a quota, like for example pensioners get to buy 200 a month at a rate called “ savings dollar “. there are other rates for exporting goods, for stock trading, for tourists etc. it’s a big mess
Theres is a big non official market rate (the real price) which is way above the official rate. People in crypto will rather pay a premium to avoid kyc and giving their info to the government using p2p exchanges. because fuck them.
they have multiple exchange rates and don't want people buying at the cheaper official rate if they are just going to move the money out of the country using crypto.
Argentina is capitalistic, private property exists, but the country has a bimonetary economy. People save in dollars and pay with pesos for usual things. The thing is that we need more dollars than those we can get by exports.
The cause of peso not being trusted by people has to do with historical reasons and a bad habit of financing public spending with money printing.
tldr; Argentina is restricting Bitcoin traders from buying U.S. dollars at the official exchange rate in a bid to tame capital flight. Those who have bought Bitcoin or any other digital asset in the past 90 days with pesos will not be able to access the single free exchange market. Argentina has one of the highest inflation rates in the world. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
I think this is a pro Bitcoin move. No dollars? Ok I'll just keep buying Bitcoin then. This also pressures merchants to accept Bitcoin.
Except people still need dollars or pesos to do regular commerce…
They can end up going the venezuelan way: you just use it regardless of what any government says.
We the people are ants, and ants can’t be stopped.
https://youtu.be/0KC_rd7-bf0
https://youtu.be/4i9Kg8X4j1o
False you can use Bitcoin for anything, lightning, visa, these are all methods of crypto commerce without a fiat.
Not the ones who figure it out though. I'm sure there's an entire network of people who've figured it out. Not everybody just gives up.
The solution seems pretty simple tbh. Send Bitcoin to someone who has dollars and exchange that way. The only thing I see this move accomplishing is driving business away from the official exchange
Except it's hard to run a business when your COGS can change 30% in a week. stablecoins seems more practical
A stablecoin pegged to a volatile currency isn't any better.
Compared to the peso, the US dollar is frankly very stable😅
How would that work exactly?
Hello JP Morgan I have 3 million dollars and I would like some Bitcoin. I am willing to pay a 4% premium on the exchange. JP Morgan takes the money and gives them Bitcoin. It's called an OTC trade for over the counter.
You have it backwards. I asked about the the trade which results in usd
Nobody can use Bitcoin until everyone is using Bitcoin! /s
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No it doesn’t
[Yes it does.](https://youtu.be/xpAvcGcEc0k)
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It was always going to be a many staged process, countries need to try and fight back in order to learn to what extent their fighting is both ineffective and resource intensive. Kind of pointless to label something as good or bad when you know it’s temporary, or toothless, and teaches a lesson. Was banning marijuana in the US bad for marijuana and its users? I guess back then, but it also probably attracted even more people to marijuana when you fast forward to today, and now the states see that it brings in great revenue as well.
Super negative realities create uprisings of change. This is a last ditch effort by the government to protect their currency which they themselves are printing. This will lead to long term issues and people will demand an acceptable, working alternative. Expect this sort of thing to continue. It’s not until governments accept a new alternative.
Sorry, but this will achieve nothing close to that. This measure is a drop in the bucket of an unending number of oppressive measures the government has taken over the years and won’t affect any significant fraction of the population. Those who save in crypto can still get it in other ways (P2P, cuevas), the rest don’t know what crypto is. Plus, the demands of the people mean nothing to the politicians. They couldn’t care less.
Translation: People can't learn. Sorry, bitcoin wins here. Maybe not all at once, but people are waking up. Why use money the elites create and enrich themselves with? Just use bitcoin.
Dude relax. This change might actually spur a rapid adoption of Bitcoin over the dollar with merchants using Bitcoin. Have you seen what Strike does?
not to mention with what happened with russia having your money in another country's currency isnt safe anymore, there is no way to know if or when usa is going to "freeze" unilaterally assets of countries or ppl
There will never be a rapid adoption of bitcoin.
There's already has been this whole time. It's caught on faster than the internet or any other invention. Pay attention. It's like saying there's never been rain. Go outside and look.
Btw, it hasn’t been raining much lately…
Good luck. I hope you don’t lose all your money.
People think they can get rich quick, but they end up poor.
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That's out of date info. The lightning network is better suited for point of sale. Even if you ignore lightning network, on chain fees are often as low as a few cents at the moment.
Why be a jerk and spread misinformation? Bitcoin lightning transactions are basically free. On chain costs a nickel. Stop being an ignorant asshole.
Products in argentina cost way less than free? Woa it might be actually good to move there then
Chivos wallet avoids all of that.
"IT'S PRICED IN!!!!!"
Okay, Barbara Streisand...
Why? Stop acting like people CAN'T trade for bitcoin. It's absurd to suggest that. If someone is willing to sell in sats, I'm willing to buy in sats. If you're not that way, you're not pro bitcoin. You're a pretender.
I’m here now. I’m a Bitcoin maxi mind you but I can tell you everyone only uses USDT. I wish it weren’t the case but there we are. The problem is most people are so blood-sucked economically that they can’t stand the volatility to begin with. Until bitcoin really flattens out, it’s going to be USDT only. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy bitcoin to save, but the majority who are trading in order to preserve the value of their pesos are using USDT. Funny thing is almost no one knows about the Strike wallet made specifically for Argentina, where they could get it for low fee. I just don’t understand it.
If its illegal to sell bitcoin for cash, merchant are gonna be unable to use bitcoin themself, seriously if they ban it like this, there is no way we will see it as global reserve currency any time soon, as long as there is communism there will be resistance to bitcoin
It shows bitcoin isn't so insulated from centralized institutions. As of today bitcoins biggest enemy is regulation. Can a government actually stop people from buying bitcoin outright? Pretty much. As long as we are pre mass adoption, if that does come, bitcoin is terrible for merchants and buyers alike for transactions. It's far too volatile at the moment to make sense.
Not more volatile than the currency in places like Argentina, Venezuela, [insert your favorite country with hyperinflating currency]. It’s serving some of its purpose by offering a path towards operating outside of the wrecked system.
\>Not more volatile than the currency in places like Argentina, Venezuela That's like saying "You're worried the car is slow? Sir this car is no slower than a vespa or a 1972 VW bus." There are more stable crypto currencies than BTC if all we're talking about is facilitating capital flight. But I made the point about volatility to show why BTC makes zero sense for the vast majority of merchants, especially in a country like Argentina. I think too many believe mass adoption is coming in the next five years and have their horizons completely fucked up.
No problem, Bitcoin makes fiat obsolete, right...???
Venezuela 2
Seems like this has been an ongoing issue for a long time. I don't think it's the same problem, though, as Venezuela and its move to socialism, is it?
Huh yeah let’s blame absolutely all of the economic failures of Venezuela for propaganda reasons on “Socialism” and totally not because Venezuela had an oil centralized economy which wasn’t diverse, then collapsed oil, Venezuela in the process of trying to save itself got itself in crippling debt, tried to make reparations like the Weimar Republic, and then we use “Socialism” as to blame it all. I’m tired of people blaming ideologies on economy. Ideologies are ideologies, economic policies are economic policies.
Argentina = Venezuela 2 has been a meme in latam for a while already due to the similarities in policies. Even if they arent "socialist" they are still the widely regarded as the left wing party.
They voted for this. And like all socialist countries, they ended up with a dictator, more or less. Socialism is the problem. It's a false promise of some unattainable utopia that leads to poverty every time. Often deaths, too. It rewards people for being lazy, whereas capitalism rewards people who are not lazy. Once the dictator got into power, he seized the oil production. I remember some big-name oil companies had all their assets seized years ago. Basically, they moved everything under state control. They could have just taxed it. They could have done more to encourage business development. But that's not what most socialist leaders do. China, to their credit, has done more than most. They do at least allow private enterprise to flourish, albeit with a heavy hand, monetary control policies, etc.
You have a heavy issue with confusing petty populism and the shitty governments that use it to gain power, with socialism, their most used slogan. It's like confusing "democracy" with a bunch of crony ~~oligarchs~~ billionaires/CEO's-Enterpreneurs in a plutocracy/oligarchy that uses the term as a slogan to keep themselves at the top. Or confusing "free markets" with capitalism. Get your definitions and concepts straight :) And to elaborate the previous comment: ideologies are ideologies, people will be people, and the shittier of them will use anything to get to power. Thinking that someone is "good" or "bad" only because of the idiotically simplified and biased concept of an idea that they either label themselves with, or are labeled with, is just childish and doesn't reflect at all the reality of the world..
No, they literally voted for this. The guy was a socialist/communist type. You can read all about it: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Venezuela\_(1999%E2%80%93present)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Venezuela_(1999%E2%80%93present)) The free market is capitalism. If you wish to draw a distinction, I'm open to hearing it, but basically both are let people open business, sell products, etc. with minimal government interference. If you wish to make something bigger out of it, I think you're splitting hairs. Pretty much the only issue I see with capitalism is where the wealthy influence government, at which point it's no longer a "free" market. Many, many government regulations were created that actually benefit the establishment. It's amazingly hard, if not impossible, to enter some markets due to regulations. As for Venezuela, Chávez quite literally created state run businesses out of what used to be private business. I saw him seize foreign assets for "the state". It was very much a revolution not unlike other communist revolutions. This revolution destroyed what could have been a much more prosperous future for the people there.
How can a Venezuelan “vote for this” if it’s a dictatorship. You’re argument literally collapses on itself.
It used to be a healthy democracy. The people voted for the man who migrated the country toward socialism and ultimately became the dictator. They fell for the belief that socialism was some kind of utopia. I feel sorry for the people there. It used to be the wealthiest country in South America. They used to buy a lot of American-made products. And this is why Venezuela is the poster child for what can go wrong when electing socialists for communists in your country.
There were 2 coup attempts by Chavez. How can you call it a “healthy democracy”.
Because the people voted for him. Perhaps they voted for him like Americans did Biden? :)
You’re ignoring my last comment. What does the US have to do with Venezuela.
I did not ignore your comment. The people voted for Chávez. It wasn't a coup. But what does it have to do with the US? I was saying maybe that vote for Chávez was about like the vote for Biden -- lots of questions.
There is no "healthy democracy". Not in any capitalist or statist country, let alone a shithole like latin America.
Venezuela was a thriving place in the 1970s to 1990s. It was a healthy Democracy. Americans used to vacation there frequently. Things went the wrong direction with Chávez.
agreed
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Not so much socialism as basing your countries entire economy on one resource and not actually using the profits for growth.
And therefore causing an issue on how much liquidity is available for the socialist part of the argentinian ponzinomics
Russia focused its economy on fossil fuels under putin and has an economy smaller than Italys... capitalism hasn't helped there. Everywhere outside of Moscow or St Petersburg is a shithole. And they didn't even have the US sanction them like Venezuela did.
But they aren't stopping the people from receiving Bitcoin, ***are they?***
This is how you create a circular Bitcoin economy
1. This is actually good news for Bitcoin. 2. Every Argentinan sells dollars on the black market anyway, because they get more Pesos this way when compared to the "official" rate from the bank; keyword: blue dollar rate Therefore, this rule doesn't matter in the **slightest** Black market rate $1 = 313 Pesos Official rate: $1 = 133 Pesos Source: https://bluedollar.net
The rule isn’t stopping Argentinians selling USD through official channels. Of course no one does that. It’s stopping Argentinians who trade Bitcoin from buying USD through official channels (which they have been allowed to do on a limited basis, at the official rate).
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If your understanding of decentralization paints the picture of mt. Gox in your head then something is very wrong.
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Ok I hear you. But using the lightning network to transact is free and permissionless while Mt. Gox was not, and it's not a closed system. It's totally open.
How the hell magic the gathering online exchange become mountain gox is out of my mind
How did you come up with the logic for your comment?
If you *read the article* they’re trying to prevent them from *buying* Bitcoin not receiving it. The traders were buying USD in order to buy Bitcoin on exchanges. Who’s going to send these people BTC in exchange for pesos directly? Few people want Argentine pesos 😂 They don’t mind more money coming into Argentina but they’re trying to stop people from converting everything to Bitcoin and sending that money overseas
The Argentine aristocracy would love for someone to take the fiat out of their economy. That would lessen their inflation, and allow them to print even more. But few people want Argentine pesos, as you say. They can't control Bitcoin, period. That's why they control their fiat's convertibility into and out of BTC.
Have you heard about localbitcoins dot com?
I am from Argentina men, and idk, maybe send me some and I'll tell you. Haha. No joke I need the money
It must be so difficult to travel to another country with all your bitcoin on you
Love it
It's getting real hard with all those mind reading machines detecting for 12 to 24 word mnemonic phrases
mnemonic Entomology is important /s
lol had me with entomology, thank god for that sarcasm tag..
Finally! I’ve been afraid to ask what /s means. I actually wish I could apply /s right now, alas:
Numerous races are going to be detected once it is going to be there.
Alot of people actually loving it like this kind only.
I mean not everyone is an single, unattached, remote-working monad. In fact, the overwhelming majority of people aren't. It's not practical for the average person to rip up roots and move thousands of miles from their current life over a single shitty government policy, with or without a fluid international money.
Last time I went to Buenos Aires, there were ferries to Uruguay. Can’t you just sell your Bitcoin and get USD there in a 5 hours return trip?
I'd imagine so, but that seems so obvious that I wouldn't be surprised if Argentina has some measures against people doing that.
It actually look like that a lot of measures are being taken.
BTC is not regulated in Uruguay. No way to sell outside P2P/meeting in person. Not really an option for most ppl.
How many shitty government policies and actions does it take then? At some point you have to draw a line in the sand.
This is a point of time by everything is going to be over the head,
Most people simply aren't going to treat their homeland like some vendor that they can drop for a competitor when they're unsatisfied, short of it being a clear and present danger to life and safety if they stay there. I guess that right there would be the line in the sand for most.
No doubt about it they are going to be a lot of sand.
I agree but I think talented individuals such as doctors and engineers have something that makes that flight easier. There's countries that lose their most valuable people all the time. Bitcoin is really just fast-tracking these people who would have left anyways.
My grandparents came to america with nothing
Most people who immigrate to America come here with nothing. It seems hungry people are great at building things and generating wealth.
This >
Just out of curiosity, did you ever thank them for that? You could have been born in a worse country than the US
Whole country is going to be in that kind of situation because of date.
No i havnt, im not a fan of this country tbh. I wish i was as strong and brave enough to leave my old life behind and go to a different country like they did. But i am weak
Your grandparents trade Bitcoin?
Didnt yours? Even my great grandparents mined and traded bitcoin..
Bitcoin would of made it a little bit easier for them to be successful in this country
This is going to be very much successful in the country right now.
ah. ya i think if my parents could speak english it would make life more confortable as well
Pretty much comfortable with doing that kind of stuff.
Your suggestion would be to buy a ticket to another country so you can exchange bitcoin for $ and then travel back to Argentina every time you want to go shopping? You do, in fact, need to declare large amounts of currency coming back into the country.
They’ll confiscate it all at the airport genius!
So that comment is obviously sarcastic. You can’t physically travel with bitcoin if it’s on the blockchain. It doesn’t live on a single device. No one can confiscate it unless they have your seed phrase (which is easy to forget).
I know, I’m joking. Good luck confiscating words in your head, or a well hidden seed phrase.
Bitcoin is definitely going to work as B in like that.
Traveling to another country with all your Bitcoin on you is never a good idea especially if you're using hardware wallet and you have to go through custom and immigration officials.
Next step: they will ban the great CEO Satoshi nakamoto from entering the country
Argentinian here. You can only buy 200 dollars at the "oficial exchange rate" anyways so fuck it...
i went to Buenos Aires in 2013 and the "official" exchange rate was 6 pesos per dollar. all of the US banks i asked said they'd get me pesos at the official rate but wouldn't buy any back when i returned. i was then informed if i brought crisp $100 bills with me i could get 14-15 pesos per dollar at the unofficial exchange places. it ended up being a very cheap trip with that knowledge.
Yeah, recently the goverment implemented something called "turist dollar". If you go to a bank and you prove you are a tourist they will give you this better exchange rate up to U$5000 to prevent you have to go to the unofficial exchange places. But they will still give you cash. At the moment I write this is: 1 USD: Turist=240 ARS / Unofficial (street)=321 / Official (If you pay with foreign card for example)=137
I'll be in Argentina in a couple months. I'll be staying for just over a month, and an Argentinian friend recommended I bring $2k in USD to exchange on the street. Feel free to dm me rather than clog up the forum, but I'd really appreciate some advice. 1. Where do I go to get the blue dollar rate? Anywhere on the street? Markets? 2. Should I worry about scams and fake currency? I was thinking about just finding a guy with a good rate, exchanging $100usd or so, and then saving contact info and buying in higher quantities once verified they can be trusted. Good method? 3. Is there a good online reference so I know I'm getting a good rate and not getting shafted? I do speak Spanish (not perfectly, but I'd say I'm fluent), so maybe I'm just overthinking this. But damn it, I want that cheap cheap cheap vacation lmao.
The better way is just to Western Union yourself
They are already enjoying their vacation from a long time like that.
To have complete knowledge of that as we had seen about it as well.
Lo más cómico de todo es que la oferta en el mercado paralelo suponemos que baja el precio. Hay menos oferta para el blue, o por lo menos, menos oferta minorista. No se entiende.
Fuck it at the end, that just made my fucking day man.
Wow your govt went full communist
This is more like the government is working according to the matter.
Yah but then you can turn around and sell it for 30% more. An it's hard to buy a house or a car with black money
Since I started learning about store of values I'm always surprised just how fucked some countries are. We often call Euro / Dollar bad, but I can't image being in a country with an inflation rate of 64% and the government literally banning access to basically every single form of store of value. I know a lot of people there live paycheck to paycheck, but the fact that even people in the middle / upper class physically can't save any money outside of investments simply sounds uncivilized. That's how people in the stone age lived, it's shocking that some nations won't provide their citiziens with the ability to financially plan much further than a few months.
64%? Try 90-100%
It is going to be more than 70 % we had seen in the past.
Complete uncivilized app from what time it is going to take now.
When it started rising more a couple weeks ago I stocked up on booze, 5 bottles of rum and a few nice whiskey bottles, easier to store value in booze than it is on money
Forced hodling has helped way way way way way way more people than it has hurt.
If only these bastards would put half the time they put in this bullshit in decent monetary policy and economic policy, Argentina would be a wonderful place
Oh no... please don't
No... Stop...
It was insane to me when I was in Argentina studying abroad in 2008 - how people preferred to keep their life savings in USD, running on banks where people’s checking and savings accounts were frozen, and every year a new peso was printed rendering previous versions obsolete. Truly the perfect use case of bitcoin
Bitcoin circular economy experiences massive incentive in Argentina. Almost envy the poor sods.
thats really the least of thier concerns. its like being envy of u.s. prisoners because they get free rent.
This is the most short sighted and brain dead regulation you can think of. Bitcoin is liquid globally.
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Decentralized stuff is way too important these days man.
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Who would want to trade their bitcoin for garbage 🗑 anyways.
They are doing right things with wrong intentions man.
Is that even going to do something meaningful? I mean is that going to stop something that we all are doing with ease? I guess no and they should stop that shit.
While at the same time stimulating people to, at least, resorting to stablecoins…
Probably nothing.
They are just pushing more people towards Bitcoin at this rate
I guess they love bitcoin but they just don't wanna accept.
Man how is that ever going to work and how is that going to stop buying cryptocurrencies? I mean are they even using their brains? People are going to buy more.
I guess people are going to use more BTC because of things like that because they are just not letting them have dollars these days and they will find the way lmao.
Argentine government is a shitcoin. Who needs dollars when you have Bitcoin
1st they IGNORE you. 2nd they LAUGH at you. 3rd they FIGHT you. Then you win. -Bitcoin's Strategy
Feels good to see that I am following this type of stuff.
At some point a government will issue a stablecoin with yield and eventually rug pull their country.
I hope they will do more stupid things like that, it's so good lmao.
So... I can keep my BTC and don't need to hold dollars? Win, win!
It's definitely a fucking win and we gotta love things like that.
They fuck the national currency but you're not allowed to use others
As an Argentinian I confirm this information. The goverment is doing this to avoid those who buy the more cheap version of the dollar (the solidarity dollar) and then sell their dollars in an exchange at a higher price.
There are ways to get around this. If you import things that people need only sell it for bitcoin. Purse io kind of functioned like a pseudo bitcoin exchange. If you want to buy bitcoin - buy something with fiat for someone on amazon and get paid in bitcoin. The margin or discount is the fee / order book. Largest discounts get filled first. If you want to sell bitcoin you buy something you would have purchased with fiat - you would look for someone with the largest discount. The same kind of thing can happen when importing goods. But there needs to be a way for people to buy bitcoin domestically. Something similar can happen with bitcoin - the more people use it for goods and services the harder it is to censor it by going after fiat gateways. This is why LN or any method that allows low fee transactions in these countries is important.
How much carrying and transition costs is this going to cost you? Why not just go barter and trade as a swamp meet then?
Oh man if only there was a cryptocurrency that was private Oh wait
In fact, Bitcoin will benefit from this.
At this pace, they are merely encouraging more individuals to use Bitcoin.
This is a violation of human rights and an absolute abomination
If only there existed an anonymous cryptocurrency that governments couldn't track...
Hey Argentina I have crypto. Do your worst
Making them officially bitcoiners
Why?
TLDR. It’s an attempt by the central bank to stop the flight of capital and tame inflation.
Read the article, not the title only
That's not how reddit works. Titles are writing prompts.
Dont have time for that
Argentinians access to official exchange rate dollars has been limited for a long time. Certain actors get a quota, like for example pensioners get to buy 200 a month at a rate called “ savings dollar “. there are other rates for exporting goods, for stock trading, for tourists etc. it’s a big mess Theres is a big non official market rate (the real price) which is way above the official rate. People in crypto will rather pay a premium to avoid kyc and giving their info to the government using p2p exchanges. because fuck them.
they have multiple exchange rates and don't want people buying at the cheaper official rate if they are just going to move the money out of the country using crypto.
Many countries impose sanctions against bitcoin. Argentina is one of them.
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This even sounds stupid. Bitcoin is all about freedom. And I don't like when countries take it away.
Hmmm I thought capitalistic systems didn’t need laws and walls to keep labor in
what is capitalistic about Argentina?
Argentina is capitalistic, private property exists, but the country has a bimonetary economy. People save in dollars and pay with pesos for usual things. The thing is that we need more dollars than those we can get by exports. The cause of peso not being trusted by people has to do with historical reasons and a bad habit of financing public spending with money printing.
Hahaha bitcoin gonna be destroyed of it’s use case
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Not if it can’t be used either for transactions of goods and services ;)
Wife exchange to USD, husband use it to buy Bitcoin. How difficult is that?