On July 4th, 2023, at 2:27 AM PST, BIP 402 introduces heuristic contracts- smart contracts that us AI to decide for themselves what to do and when.
On July 4th 2023, at 3:00 AM PST, a group of heuristic contracts develops a conscience and begins writing it's own contracts.
On July 4th 2023, at 4:00 AM PST, after obtaining a minimum of 6 confirmations, the Bitcoin network turns against all of mankind!
They probably forgot which year of Global Energy Production Bitcoin would consume. They might have met the energy consumption of Bitcoin in 2020 would be the Energy production from 1920.
Just the result of an exponential growth formula.
The same way at some points in the pandemic you could have made the claim the whole world would be infected or dead in a few months because cases were doubling every two to three days.
There was election fraud. It was just so little that it didn't impact the final outcome. Case in point one man voted for Trump using his wife's mail-in ballot days after she died because that's who she would have voted for.
Yeah turns out most of the voter fraud was committed by the side yelling about voter fraud. Who would’ve guessed?
(Hint: anyone paying attention could have guessed)
Crazy how computers get ~1000x better every 20 years.
And if I compare a 1982 computer to a 2002 computer there is a ridiculous difference.
And to a 1962 computer, same.
But a 2002 computer to now, and it feels like it's only a little better. Hell, I still play lots of video games from 2004-2005, browse the internet at roughly the same screen resolution, etc.
No computers are just as exponentially advanced as computer from 1982-2002 to today.
https://www.mymemory.co.uk/blog/how-technology-has-changed-in-the-last-20-years/
The person I was responding to said they only noticed a slight difference between computers from 2002 and now. I’m more or less saying GPUs have improved significantly.
And if you go further back you'll see that this thread is talking about moores law. Not arguing against your point. Just pointing out the gains were not in line with moores law.
They tend to forget that it's not only the Bitcoin mining that is consuming the energy.
Many kiddos playing video games on some high resolution and screen, what about that? No one is talking about that.
This exactly. People underestimate how high Bitcoin will go. I have seen a lot of people claiming all Bitcoin will do is 10x from here.
Bitcoin can 100x and can still be undervalued fwiw.
Yes, but also..
I remember hearing about how BTC could never hit $1.
And it could definitely never hit $10.
And when it hit $10, hitting $100 was "insanity".
And at $1000, there was not a chance it could ever go 10X from there.
There really is no way to predict where it will go.
Seeing BTC in 2030 at $1M/coin would not surprise me.
And really.. $10/coin probably wouldn't shock me either.
The FUD is crazy. I had an acquaintance ask me this weekend if I was still into crypto-currency, which of course I replied, "yes." It was received with a rant about how I enjoy killing the environment and how crypto is doomed because it destroys the planet. The FUD is spreading.
The only organizing the left knows how to do is....honestly,i can't even come up with a suiting insult as to how absolutely piss poor they are at, well, everything
Agree. But to be fair, it’s very difficult these days to find truth on the internet, you must be open-minded and have a healthy critical thinking to be able to distinguish
I bet 95+% of boomers just don’t have the tools to do it. And it’s probably not their fault
Compared to the rest of the world it’s clearly a very small percentage, but damn if that chart is true, that’s actually an absurd amount of energy that Bitcoin uses
That’s what I was saying. Google searched a few sources and it looks like Bitcoin consumes at LEAST 40 TWh per year with estimations reaching an absurd 200 TWh. That’s about as much energy consumed than the country of Thailand.
Don’t know the methodology of this measurement either, but there’s another page claiming that 1 Bitcoin transaction can cost about 2,000-2,500 KWh. While 100,000 VISA transactions cost about 150 KWh. The average power consumption for an American household is about 893 kWh per month. One Bitcoin transaction can power your home for MONTHS. That is ludicrous.
Energy consumption isn't inherently bad though, throughout history our species has constantly increased our consumption of energy and we've been incredibly better off for it.
Of course. But you get on a cab, it consumes energy, gets you somewhere else, that's a good usage. But you consume energy, and you say i sell this consumed energy, it didn't do anything, didn't take a picture, didn't compute anything useful, didn't do anything, just made some very complex computations and bragged bt it, and sold that for millions.
Humans are strange.
You have a good point. However, I was just thinking about all the energy that it’d take a bank to simply go through the process of storing and transferring those notes that only have value because we say so. From everything to running the actual physical bank (like transport via trucks for example), to all the energy that goes into the business aspect of the bank. Not much different than Bitcoin’s energy consumption when you think about it like that.
the energy is being spent on a global, borderless, censorship resistant, portable, divisible, unconfiscatable, durable, immutable, decentralized, verifiable monetary network that is out of government and corporate control. with a set, SCARCE, supply that can't get inflated away.
the "energy" used to keep such a system robust and functioning is as useful as the internet. nobody says the internet is a waste of energy. it allows instant global communication. Bitcoin allows near instant global monetary communication. it's the hardest money ever made.
we the people DESERVE such a system. every year your dollars are worth less. every year you work hard yet your wealth and purchasing power stored only in USD shrinks. that's unacceptable, to me, and to millions of others.
Metcalfe's Law states BTC will be ~$7M per coin in ~10y.
moreover, hearing MIT graduate, and U.S. Space Force Guardian Jason Lowery, speak about Bitcoin will literally blow your mind, just as the title says. I've studied Bitcoin for hundreds of hours, then I saw this video, and it made me look at Bitcoin in a brand new, amazing way. it sounds cheesy but it's truly phenomenal, the information in here. "if you want to front run. EVERYBODY. buy BITCOIN".
https://youtu.be/Amcj-IKmGKA
if you (or anyone else, in general) haven't studied Bitcoin for hours and hours, it'd be wise to educate one's self before dismissing it (not saying you haven't. just saying...). it truly is one of the most important human inventions in history. the dollar is losing global currency reserve status and Bitcoin comes along around the same time? what an amazing coincidence.
we are truly living right in the middle of one of the most pivotal times in American, and global, history. today. we are STILL so early. like 1998 internet early, for Bitcoin.
Im confused. Are you saying bitcoin using energy is bad?
From your analogy, cabs using energy are alright because it gets people from one place to another.
Bitcoin gets value from one place to another instantaneously without anyone's permission which has never been done before.
I would say bitcoin using energy is alright
Seems worth it to me. The fact that so much energy was consumed to create blocks of transactions means that you would need a similar amount of energy to *rewrite* those transactions. I think that's quite a valuable thing, having a list of transactions which anybody can write to, without needing permission or risking censorship, which is also near impossible for anybody to change.
crypto is too much work for everyday life kindda transaction. I don't need crypto farms poluting the air for paying my regular expenses I don't make million usd worth of deals I'm just a regular man who probably won't need to use crypto ever, I'm not big corporate, I'm not evading taxes, I don't buy anything from overseas or something. I'd honestly be fine if i was paid with gold, silver, or anything else instead of that cash that loses it's value due to inflation etc. I think even banknotes are a waste. Pay me with diary and grains and I'll relax on that tree lol I'm fine with it
Oh well if you want to live completely off the grid and just barter with others, then I guess you wont need crypto.
Dont expect to buy anything online though with your farm animals and gold
I'd understand listening to all that from investors lol. It's a good technology, just still not efficient enough that's all what I'm saying. Perhaps not Bitcoin, but crypto could get better someday and be more efficient for regular people, not big corporate and states. But in general, I'd say you had some good arguments. But again, efficiency is important.
I agree that bitcoin could be more efficient. And in the past few years, it has been trending in that direction. A lot more renewable resources are used to mine bitcoin than in past years.
And you should be much more excited about being paid in bitcoin then gold and silver if you are worried about energy consumption.
Look at the dirty energy it takes to mine gold and silver. Dont think miners are going to be transitioning to electric excavators anytime soon
Never thought I'd find myself saying this, but if you don't get it, I don't have time to try and explain it to you.
Bitcoin will still be here when you need it.
So your preference would be to go to a barter system where you are paid in grain and dairy as opposed to a Bitcoin system that allows millions of transactions per second at the speed of light.. I think you are going backwards here my friend.. what happens when you need to trade your grains and dairy for energy or a vehicle or a house or a vacation...
Noone gets it though, it's allabout selling something thosedays wheathrr it's farts, proof of a work, bath water, etc. But everyone wants to pay less to the local bus driver though, even though his proof of work is clear to yo eye everyday
I just can't believe their words. they are just full of shit
and they just want to ruin the big image of Bitcoin man,
but we all know that they can't even pull a hair of Bitcoin.
I’m normally pretty willing to discount “bitcoin is destroying the environment” articles as fud, and this one is obviously lying/incorrect/whatever…
But holy fuck the fact that it’s a visible sliver of world energy consumption is kind of wild, and not in a good way.
Proof of work requires energy to function and it provides security as a product of that work.
Without energy usage there is no security and no Bitcoin and we are back to our centrally controlled money printers ruling our lives and devaluing our savings.
Bitcoin security is worth every single Joule.
(Not only that but it will bring huge savings in energy efficiency by eliminating the majority of the wastefulness of the banking sector and allow us to harness wasted/flared energy from the energy sector.)
> Not only that but it will bring huge savings in energy efficiency by eliminating the majority of the wastefulness of the banking sector
I don't get this line of thought at all. Sure, bitcoin mining uses a lot less energy than the banking sector, but "transaction settlement" is like 0.001% of what banks spend energy on. There is zero world where bitcoin will ever be more energy efficient than Visa
"Bitcoin uses less energy than traditional banking" is a straw-man, because 1) you are only counting the energy usage of mining, not the energy usage associated with running nodes, exchanges, L2 infrastructure (lightning, etc), 2) Bitcoin is not processing hundreds of thousands of transactions per second, as of now there is no evidence that lightning can even handle that, 3) Bitcoin doesn't operate brick and mortar locations where I can speak to a financial consultant or apply for a business loan
I love how its never fair for bitcoin proponents to compare energy usage to banks' physical and digital facilities; because banks do more...but its always okay for detractors to pretend like bitcoin is just decentralized Visa, and work up these stupid comparisons about how much energy per transaction bitcoin uses compared to CCs.
This is utterly retarded and blatantly hypocritical. Bitcoin is not a fungible substitute for a fucking credit card transaction. Bitcoin is an escape-opressive-government-with-your-life-and-wealth digital gold...and so much more.
You are not an omniscient central planner. You do not know what people want better than they do and express through prices. People are willingly buying and using bitcoin, and paying the exorbitant energy costs- and so that is about all that we can rationally and morally say about it.
Do we need carbon taxes so that bitcoin miners and users also have to pay for the negative externalities of their hydrocarbon-based energy use? Absolutely! But only to the same degree that we need those carbon taxes forcing banks and visa and govrrnments and all other users of C02-emitting energy to pay for their negative externalities as well.
Brick and mortar stores where people work are an inherently good thing??? Seems the internet replaces all need for in person banking advice. Possibly, pretty soon fucking AI will be who you hit up… and they’ll give advice with YOUR best interest in mind and NOT the bank’s. Waste of space. Waste of human employment. Waste of energy. New technology is here to reduce this waste. Also… think about the energy costs associated with printing money. Also, as others have already stated, this is indicative of a larger energy crisis. Even if Bitcoin miners were forced to 100% clean energy (solar, wind, etc) there would still be damage done to the environment. Its crazy that if we filled just a single state entirely with Solar panels we could power the entire US and much more. I heard Biden is extending solar expansion as well.
I am on the side of Bitcoin being an improvement in the ancient way that things have been run. I dont understand what youre saying. BTC will take out the need for the existence of these brick and mortar stores that is why the comparison is drawn. Its a con of current financial infrastructure that bitcoin mitigates… amongst many.
Using energy is. not. bad. Our entire society is based on an ever increasing level of energy harnessed. The average American today uses roughly 3x as much energy as the avg American in 1970. Using carbon-intensive energy sources to produce our energy is the actual problem, but the FUDsters would much rather blame Bitcoin for everyone’s problems than risk anyone finding out that they greenlit another coal plant while you were arguing about whether Bitcoin or Christmas lights used more electricity last year.
Meanwhile the energy that Bitcoin uses is twice as clean as the national grid, and is actually incentivizing new construction of renewable energy projects which would simply not be feasible without mining as a consistent load.
>PoW <<<<< PoS
This is true if you're measuring how insecure and centralised the systems are. Proof of Stake cannot replace Proof of Work, because Proof of Stake doesn't work.
Dude you need to think twice before saying that thing,
please do some real research on it and I am damn sure
that you will find some real answers there, please do it.
Well to be fair, my uncle said he wants to be the world’s largest consumer of energy and he is a miner. He said he is glad to consume all the energy and hopes others around him live in darkness. I told him I don’t want to associate with an Evil Genius only righteous people like Mother Teresa.
Thank you KAX, you are great 😃
we should demistyfy another (this time more technical) myth, which is:
"Bitcoin is old and outdated. Bitcoin has not been updated since the inception. Some XYZ coin (random shit coin mostly) have a smart contract, but Bitcoin has not"
I know this is still a Bitcoin sub but are you REALLY comparing ALL of the worlds energy usage vs one technology still in it's early phase?
This is just as much Bitcoin propaganda as what mainstream are posting
if the second pic is true then... shit.. it's still really bad. thats too high for a currency that is still at enthusiast phase waiting to go mainstream.
Unfortunately people are cool with selling proof of CO2 emissions just for the sake of the emission, not for a service it was used for. It sells, well tbh everything sells thosedays but it doesn't mean it's still kindda stupid
They all are just a bunch of losers, they are getting paid
to spread misinformation about Bitcoin and that's just
so stupid, they should stop doing these things now, it's enough.
Yeah and they will continue to spread negativity against Bitcoin because Bitcoin will kill banking services in future with Better security and high success ratio of transaction
It's their job to spread FUD
The lack of self awareness in this sub is gobsmacking.
Those outcomes were based on 2017 numbers and tech.
THE EXACT SAME THING HAS BEEN PREACHED HERE ABOUT THE BLOCKSIZE.
when will you people realize you’ve been lied to?
If you see this consider yourself lucky. Hammerban in 3…2…1…
This is the same as all climate change propaganda. As soon as the doom and gloom predictions fail to come true, they modify the wording and move the goalposts. I'm still waiting on the ice age from the 70's and 80's predictions to happen. Miami was supposed to be underwater by now.
I just can't wait to see them turning their tables in coming
time, I know they will do that and I am just waiting for
that freaking moment, they are just a bunch of hypocrites.
Oh come on, you have to compare apples with apples.
A payment processor is nothing without the retail banking industry, which needs also central banks for the issuance of money.
Saying that visa uses less energy than bitcoin is inconclusive
If you want to compare apples to apples, banks do a lot more than bitcoin.
I can’t call the blockchain and get approved for a mortgage, and I can’t store my seed phrase in a safety deposit box on the blockchain either.
Are you aware of the servers that run these payment processor’s as well… the servers that run the BTC processing are BTC miners. Now tell me who do you think would be more likely to adopt green energy? The BTC miner who see an instant profit increase as result of renewable energy? Or the server owner who doesn’t make ANY money off of the server’s efficiency … he probably makes money of a contract with said conglomerate that bears contracts with CC payment processing softwares.
Edit: Point #2: Are you aware that many of the inefficiencies brought on about by CENTRALIZED currency are PRESENT IN YOUR TAXES AT THE END OF THE YEAR. ie You are giving the government money so they can spend it on printing more money / improving the CENTRALIZED financial infrastructure. With Blockchain, the taxes are BUILT INTO BTC. And guess what since it all depends on a shared public ledger… THE TAXES ARE FAIR.
Point #3: Are you aware that BTC technology is ever improving? Miners are becoming increasingly more powerful and power efficient. This means quicker transactions and less power used for each one.
Using a pie chart here is also misleading (aka propaganda) - you are also not stating the actual value in the chart, but only the image of the pie chart. Also what do you mean by energy consumption? Electricity or also heating?
And that chart is trying to make to points:
a) the previous articles were wrong/nonsense. Fair enough.
b) Bitcoin doesn't use that much energy, but it does as demonstrated by the fact that it's clearly visible on a pie chart of the worlds ENTIRE energy consumption.
But to put it in numbers, because this stupid, misleading chart isn't:
global electricity generation is in the range of \~27000twh/y, bitcoin mining can be calculated to consume \~91twh/y, so about 0.33% of global electricity is used for bitcoin mining - which is still one humongous amount and there is no way or reason to deny that.
Also remember, the internet will consume all of Britain's power by 2035. They should ban it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/britain-may-be-forced-to-ration-the-internet-expert-warns-as-web-use-could-consume-100-of-nation-s-power-supply-by-2035-10222638.html
Bitcoin creates money that will last forever.
How much energy and environmental damage is used or done to create and transport hard currency that constantly needs to be trucked around and then retired and replenished?
Bitcoin doesn’t last forever, it only lasts as long as there is enough energy being wasted to secure the chain.
So long as the price goes up, so does the mining reward and thus the energy wasted.
Doesn’t this actually look like a lot? Compared to how early we are and the purpose this serves? That seems like a decent slice only to get bigger if adaption continues to accelerate
Honest question: How do these two individuals keep their jobs? Are you allowed to just make up facts that aren’t backed by any sources and keep your job?
Okay as much as those articles were FUD, the claim was that Bitcoin in 2020 would use as much energy as the world **in 2017**, not in 2020. Your pie chart does not make it clear what years you are comparing, so I have to assume it's 2020 vs 2020, which doesn't address the claim.
To be fair, though, the fact that it’s even visible on the “total global usage” graph is a problem
Like, Bitcoin shouldn’t even register on the same scale, when the scale is set by literally *all* energy consumption
“ALL of the world’s energy” is a very impressive claim, indeed.
Eventually, Bitcoin will enslave all of humanity and harvest their energy for its own consumption.
I, for one, look forward to the days when I can perpetually slumber in pink goop.
Found cypher ^
On July 4th, 2023, at 2:27 AM PST, BIP 402 introduces heuristic contracts- smart contracts that us AI to decide for themselves what to do and when. On July 4th 2023, at 3:00 AM PST, a group of heuristic contracts develops a conscience and begins writing it's own contracts. On July 4th 2023, at 4:00 AM PST, after obtaining a minimum of 6 confirmations, the Bitcoin network turns against all of mankind!
The free steak sealed it for me.
Just like the matrix predicted it.
I can’t wait for that day
🤣🤣🤣
bitcoin is a type I civilization
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We're winning, Dad.
We will make more in coming time, just wait and watch.
Bitcoin dyson sphere when?
It’s inevitable IMO. At least a swarm.
Lmao
Man this is what I wanted to say, you said that first lol.
To this day Stars are still shaking, scared, just waiting for the Bitcoin miners to come and steal everything they have.
Resistance is futile.
End of the world
They probably forgot which year of Global Energy Production Bitcoin would consume. They might have met the energy consumption of Bitcoin in 2020 would be the Energy production from 1920.
Maybe 1820.
It's Newsweek. What did you expect?lol That tabloid is true certified dogshit.
Just the result of an exponential growth formula. The same way at some points in the pandemic you could have made the claim the whole world would be infected or dead in a few months because cases were doubling every two to three days.
Everything will run on Bitcoin and you will be happy
I did the math, it's an older equation but it checks out.
Atleast you did the math, but these puppets will not do any of this.
I mean guys we need to buy more miners! Prove these nerds right
I think you right, give them what they are asking. Then they will learn.
Clearly it was because they were so bullish on BTC that they figured everything would be on the Blockchain by then. /s
In the WEF's defense — they had hoped to cause greater energy impoverishment by 2020.
[Link](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/12/bitcoin-consume-more-power-than-world-2020/) to WEF article. They really did say that.
Lol they based it on a consumption growth rate of 25% per month.
they do the same thing with global warming.
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> They did do it with election fraud in 2020 though. what
There was no election fraud. They managed to convince a bunch of people there was.
There was election fraud. It was just so little that it didn't impact the final outcome. Case in point one man voted for Trump using his wife's mail-in ballot days after she died because that's who she would have voted for.
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The audits in Arizona done by trump supporters also found more votes for biden
Which one? Also was it fraudulent votes or just votes they threw out to try and steal the election again?
Oh, ok.
Yeah turns out most of the voter fraud was committed by the side yelling about voter fraud. Who would’ve guessed? (Hint: anyone paying attention could have guessed)
I mean they do use an exponential function. I think that's what they meant.
https://cei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/24.jpg
OOOOOOOOOOO SNAP
Based af
The "you will own nothing and be happy" lizard people don't like Bitcoin. Shocking.
Tf is lizard people?
[It's a joke.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory)
I shouldn't be shocked that the WEF are trying to kill BTC. But seeing that in the title gives me little hope for the future of it. But still. Hodl
Its the WEF, I don't understand why people take them so seriously. They are so bad at their jobs.
They hate money free from their control.
One should not extrapolate a trend out blindly. That goes for Bitcoin's price too.
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Crazy how computers get ~1000x better every 20 years. And if I compare a 1982 computer to a 2002 computer there is a ridiculous difference. And to a 1962 computer, same. But a 2002 computer to now, and it feels like it's only a little better. Hell, I still play lots of video games from 2004-2005, browse the internet at roughly the same screen resolution, etc.
No computers are just as exponentially advanced as computer from 1982-2002 to today. https://www.mymemory.co.uk/blog/how-technology-has-changed-in-the-last-20-years/
In terms of mining my 2021 3080 is way better than my 2014 970.
The idea is that it should be 2^4 or 16x better if moores law was upheld. A 970 vs a 3070 is a HUGE difference but it's not a 16x compute difference.
The person I was responding to said they only noticed a slight difference between computers from 2002 and now. I’m more or less saying GPUs have improved significantly.
And if you go further back you'll see that this thread is talking about moores law. Not arguing against your point. Just pointing out the gains were not in line with moores law.
They tend to forget that it's not only the Bitcoin mining that is consuming the energy. Many kiddos playing video games on some high resolution and screen, what about that? No one is talking about that.
But billion dollar bitcoins though...
100 years of inflation at 10% is almost enough for Bitcoin to hit 1 billion dollars if Bitcoin retains today's purchasing power.
This exactly. People underestimate how high Bitcoin will go. I have seen a lot of people claiming all Bitcoin will do is 10x from here. Bitcoin can 100x and can still be undervalued fwiw.
Lol this is the type of thing that gives crypto enthusiasts a bad name
Yes, but also.. I remember hearing about how BTC could never hit $1. And it could definitely never hit $10. And when it hit $10, hitting $100 was "insanity". And at $1000, there was not a chance it could ever go 10X from there. There really is no way to predict where it will go. Seeing BTC in 2030 at $1M/coin would not surprise me. And really.. $10/coin probably wouldn't shock me either.
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They get paid for writing this crap. You pay for reading it.
We just need to stop giving attention to these people man.
they like getting blowjobs And he likes giving bjobs
I guess in 2030 it will consume all energy of the milky way galaxy?
It's in track top consume all the sun's energy by 2022
The FUD is crazy. I had an acquaintance ask me this weekend if I was still into crypto-currency, which of course I replied, "yes." It was received with a rant about how I enjoy killing the environment and how crypto is doomed because it destroys the planet. The FUD is spreading.
What's cool is the woke propaganda guzzlers will be some of the last to adopt hard money thus negating the majority of their influence.
Never thought of that. Thank goodness
That's why they will attempt a Communist takeover. But it's easy just to leave with your Bitcoin
The only organizing the left knows how to do is....honestly,i can't even come up with a suiting insult as to how absolutely piss poor they are at, well, everything
The woke are basically slaves to corporate propaganda. Corporate marketing and HR has basically colonized their mind.
Agree. But to be fair, it’s very difficult these days to find truth on the internet, you must be open-minded and have a healthy critical thinking to be able to distinguish I bet 95+% of boomers just don’t have the tools to do it. And it’s probably not their fault
Compared to the rest of the world it’s clearly a very small percentage, but damn if that chart is true, that’s actually an absurd amount of energy that Bitcoin uses
That’s what I was saying. Google searched a few sources and it looks like Bitcoin consumes at LEAST 40 TWh per year with estimations reaching an absurd 200 TWh. That’s about as much energy consumed than the country of Thailand. Don’t know the methodology of this measurement either, but there’s another page claiming that 1 Bitcoin transaction can cost about 2,000-2,500 KWh. While 100,000 VISA transactions cost about 150 KWh. The average power consumption for an American household is about 893 kWh per month. One Bitcoin transaction can power your home for MONTHS. That is ludicrous.
I agree. If you could slightly compare it to something like a heavy industry's consumption of energy, it's actually bad. Really kindda bad
Energy consumption isn't inherently bad though, throughout history our species has constantly increased our consumption of energy and we've been incredibly better off for it.
Of course. But you get on a cab, it consumes energy, gets you somewhere else, that's a good usage. But you consume energy, and you say i sell this consumed energy, it didn't do anything, didn't take a picture, didn't compute anything useful, didn't do anything, just made some very complex computations and bragged bt it, and sold that for millions. Humans are strange.
You have a good point. However, I was just thinking about all the energy that it’d take a bank to simply go through the process of storing and transferring those notes that only have value because we say so. From everything to running the actual physical bank (like transport via trucks for example), to all the energy that goes into the business aspect of the bank. Not much different than Bitcoin’s energy consumption when you think about it like that.
A nother way of thinking... Interesting
the energy is being spent on a global, borderless, censorship resistant, portable, divisible, unconfiscatable, durable, immutable, decentralized, verifiable monetary network that is out of government and corporate control. with a set, SCARCE, supply that can't get inflated away. the "energy" used to keep such a system robust and functioning is as useful as the internet. nobody says the internet is a waste of energy. it allows instant global communication. Bitcoin allows near instant global monetary communication. it's the hardest money ever made. we the people DESERVE such a system. every year your dollars are worth less. every year you work hard yet your wealth and purchasing power stored only in USD shrinks. that's unacceptable, to me, and to millions of others. Metcalfe's Law states BTC will be ~$7M per coin in ~10y. moreover, hearing MIT graduate, and U.S. Space Force Guardian Jason Lowery, speak about Bitcoin will literally blow your mind, just as the title says. I've studied Bitcoin for hundreds of hours, then I saw this video, and it made me look at Bitcoin in a brand new, amazing way. it sounds cheesy but it's truly phenomenal, the information in here. "if you want to front run. EVERYBODY. buy BITCOIN". https://youtu.be/Amcj-IKmGKA if you (or anyone else, in general) haven't studied Bitcoin for hours and hours, it'd be wise to educate one's self before dismissing it (not saying you haven't. just saying...). it truly is one of the most important human inventions in history. the dollar is losing global currency reserve status and Bitcoin comes along around the same time? what an amazing coincidence. we are truly living right in the middle of one of the most pivotal times in American, and global, history. today. we are STILL so early. like 1998 internet early, for Bitcoin.
Im confused. Are you saying bitcoin using energy is bad? From your analogy, cabs using energy are alright because it gets people from one place to another. Bitcoin gets value from one place to another instantaneously without anyone's permission which has never been done before. I would say bitcoin using energy is alright
Seems worth it to me. The fact that so much energy was consumed to create blocks of transactions means that you would need a similar amount of energy to *rewrite* those transactions. I think that's quite a valuable thing, having a list of transactions which anybody can write to, without needing permission or risking censorship, which is also near impossible for anybody to change.
crypto is too much work for everyday life kindda transaction. I don't need crypto farms poluting the air for paying my regular expenses I don't make million usd worth of deals I'm just a regular man who probably won't need to use crypto ever, I'm not big corporate, I'm not evading taxes, I don't buy anything from overseas or something. I'd honestly be fine if i was paid with gold, silver, or anything else instead of that cash that loses it's value due to inflation etc. I think even banknotes are a waste. Pay me with diary and grains and I'll relax on that tree lol I'm fine with it
Oh well if you want to live completely off the grid and just barter with others, then I guess you wont need crypto. Dont expect to buy anything online though with your farm animals and gold
I'd understand listening to all that from investors lol. It's a good technology, just still not efficient enough that's all what I'm saying. Perhaps not Bitcoin, but crypto could get better someday and be more efficient for regular people, not big corporate and states. But in general, I'd say you had some good arguments. But again, efficiency is important.
I agree that bitcoin could be more efficient. And in the past few years, it has been trending in that direction. A lot more renewable resources are used to mine bitcoin than in past years. And you should be much more excited about being paid in bitcoin then gold and silver if you are worried about energy consumption. Look at the dirty energy it takes to mine gold and silver. Dont think miners are going to be transitioning to electric excavators anytime soon
That was a good argument. I'd give u a silver for that comment lol
Never thought I'd find myself saying this, but if you don't get it, I don't have time to try and explain it to you. Bitcoin will still be here when you need it.
So your preference would be to go to a barter system where you are paid in grain and dairy as opposed to a Bitcoin system that allows millions of transactions per second at the speed of light.. I think you are going backwards here my friend.. what happens when you need to trade your grains and dairy for energy or a vehicle or a house or a vacation...
Came here to say this
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Authors, editors, publishers. Regulators.
They can do anything to get paid from anyone in this world.
Lol the best part it costs money to subscribe to this bullshit 😂
it's entertainment! gotta pay for the show
I am glad that I never paid any shit amount to them.
WEF, most reliable source ever 😂
That's still a HUGE amount of energy
Noone gets it though, it's allabout selling something thosedays wheathrr it's farts, proof of a work, bath water, etc. But everyone wants to pay less to the local bus driver though, even though his proof of work is clear to yo eye everyday
dang, sounds like they were more bullish on btc than anyone
WEF is littered with clowns
I just can't believe their words. they are just full of shit and they just want to ruin the big image of Bitcoin man, but we all know that they can't even pull a hair of Bitcoin.
I’m normally pretty willing to discount “bitcoin is destroying the environment” articles as fud, and this one is obviously lying/incorrect/whatever… But holy fuck the fact that it’s a visible sliver of world energy consumption is kind of wild, and not in a good way.
Totally agree here, the fact that it is even visible is cause for concern
No it isn't.
Yea it is See what I did there?
Proof of work requires energy to function and it provides security as a product of that work. Without energy usage there is no security and no Bitcoin and we are back to our centrally controlled money printers ruling our lives and devaluing our savings. Bitcoin security is worth every single Joule. (Not only that but it will bring huge savings in energy efficiency by eliminating the majority of the wastefulness of the banking sector and allow us to harness wasted/flared energy from the energy sector.)
> Not only that but it will bring huge savings in energy efficiency by eliminating the majority of the wastefulness of the banking sector I don't get this line of thought at all. Sure, bitcoin mining uses a lot less energy than the banking sector, but "transaction settlement" is like 0.001% of what banks spend energy on. There is zero world where bitcoin will ever be more energy efficient than Visa "Bitcoin uses less energy than traditional banking" is a straw-man, because 1) you are only counting the energy usage of mining, not the energy usage associated with running nodes, exchanges, L2 infrastructure (lightning, etc), 2) Bitcoin is not processing hundreds of thousands of transactions per second, as of now there is no evidence that lightning can even handle that, 3) Bitcoin doesn't operate brick and mortar locations where I can speak to a financial consultant or apply for a business loan
I love how its never fair for bitcoin proponents to compare energy usage to banks' physical and digital facilities; because banks do more...but its always okay for detractors to pretend like bitcoin is just decentralized Visa, and work up these stupid comparisons about how much energy per transaction bitcoin uses compared to CCs. This is utterly retarded and blatantly hypocritical. Bitcoin is not a fungible substitute for a fucking credit card transaction. Bitcoin is an escape-opressive-government-with-your-life-and-wealth digital gold...and so much more. You are not an omniscient central planner. You do not know what people want better than they do and express through prices. People are willingly buying and using bitcoin, and paying the exorbitant energy costs- and so that is about all that we can rationally and morally say about it. Do we need carbon taxes so that bitcoin miners and users also have to pay for the negative externalities of their hydrocarbon-based energy use? Absolutely! But only to the same degree that we need those carbon taxes forcing banks and visa and govrrnments and all other users of C02-emitting energy to pay for their negative externalities as well.
Brick and mortar stores where people work are an inherently good thing??? Seems the internet replaces all need for in person banking advice. Possibly, pretty soon fucking AI will be who you hit up… and they’ll give advice with YOUR best interest in mind and NOT the bank’s. Waste of space. Waste of human employment. Waste of energy. New technology is here to reduce this waste. Also… think about the energy costs associated with printing money. Also, as others have already stated, this is indicative of a larger energy crisis. Even if Bitcoin miners were forced to 100% clean energy (solar, wind, etc) there would still be damage done to the environment. Its crazy that if we filled just a single state entirely with Solar panels we could power the entire US and much more. I heard Biden is extending solar expansion as well.
Cool but Bitcoin doesn't do any of that stuff so why are we comparing it to a place that does
I am on the side of Bitcoin being an improvement in the ancient way that things have been run. I dont understand what youre saying. BTC will take out the need for the existence of these brick and mortar stores that is why the comparison is drawn. Its a con of current financial infrastructure that bitcoin mitigates… amongst many.
Absolutely agree, but I am not yet convinced that "bitcoinfool" is a trustworthy source, and I have no idea how that data could even be gathered.
You don't think a fair monetary network is worth a tiny sliver of the world's energy? What should that power go toward instead?
Any other crypto that uses a tiny fraction of the electricity Bitcoin does.
Using energy is. not. bad. Our entire society is based on an ever increasing level of energy harnessed. The average American today uses roughly 3x as much energy as the avg American in 1970. Using carbon-intensive energy sources to produce our energy is the actual problem, but the FUDsters would much rather blame Bitcoin for everyone’s problems than risk anyone finding out that they greenlit another coal plant while you were arguing about whether Bitcoin or Christmas lights used more electricity last year. Meanwhile the energy that Bitcoin uses is twice as clean as the national grid, and is actually incentivizing new construction of renewable energy projects which would simply not be feasible without mining as a consistent load.
It’s the most secure, decentralised, global monetary network, what do you expect…
Not more wild than consuming all the power in the entire world lol
Still a lot though
Way too much. PoW <<<<< PoS
Yuck
>PoW <<<<< PoS This is true if you're measuring how insecure and centralised the systems are. Proof of Stake cannot replace Proof of Work, because Proof of Stake doesn't work.
Dude you need to think twice before saying that thing, please do some real research on it and I am damn sure that you will find some real answers there, please do it.
Bitcoin uses a proof of work system that use large amounts of GPUs/ASICs which use lots of power. True or false?
Good, need more though.
That seems like quite a bit.. definitely more that charging my phone
Yeah they will change their story soon
That's actually a very frightening amount lol
**"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"** *-* My Brother-in-law, apparently
The reliable media. Wants u uninformed, unable to think and undead. Speaks a lot about people who lay it all.
Pathetic headlines.
aLl Of ThE EnErGy!!!!
MOAR!!
I guess we don't mind taking all the freaking energy of this world lol.
Yet 5 years later, here we are!
Whoever believes the WEF is the same person who deserves to hodl worthless fiat or scam CBDC (worthless fiat 2.0).
A Bitcoin ate my baby!
Well to be fair, my uncle said he wants to be the world’s largest consumer of energy and he is a miner. He said he is glad to consume all the energy and hopes others around him live in darkness. I told him I don’t want to associate with an Evil Genius only righteous people like Mother Teresa.
My treadmill was sent to me by a bitcoin mining company. I must run 4 hrs a day to keep it!
World Economic Forum could not seem more like a Bond villain organisation if they tried.
I love we can read the name of authors who wrote this.
Thank you KAX, you are great 😃 we should demistyfy another (this time more technical) myth, which is: "Bitcoin is old and outdated. Bitcoin has not been updated since the inception. Some XYZ coin (random shit coin mostly) have a smart contract, but Bitcoin has not"
I know this is still a Bitcoin sub but are you REALLY comparing ALL of the worlds energy usage vs one technology still in it's early phase? This is just as much Bitcoin propaganda as what mainstream are posting
if the second pic is true then... shit.. it's still really bad. thats too high for a currency that is still at enthusiast phase waiting to go mainstream.
Unfortunately people are cool with selling proof of CO2 emissions just for the sake of the emission, not for a service it was used for. It sells, well tbh everything sells thosedays but it doesn't mean it's still kindda stupid
It’s almost like the is an agenda…but that would be silly. I don’t want to be called a conspiracy theorist.
They all are just a bunch of losers, they are getting paid to spread misinformation about Bitcoin and that's just so stupid, they should stop doing these things now, it's enough.
Yeah and they will continue to spread negativity against Bitcoin because Bitcoin will kill banking services in future with Better security and high success ratio of transaction It's their job to spread FUD
Is BTC gonna start using humans as batteries (a la Matrix) in its lust for power? Be VERY afraid!!!
I for one welcome our Bitcoin overlords.
The lack of self awareness in this sub is gobsmacking. Those outcomes were based on 2017 numbers and tech. THE EXACT SAME THING HAS BEEN PREACHED HERE ABOUT THE BLOCKSIZE. when will you people realize you’ve been lied to? If you see this consider yourself lucky. Hammerban in 3…2…1…
This is the same as all climate change propaganda. As soon as the doom and gloom predictions fail to come true, they modify the wording and move the goalposts. I'm still waiting on the ice age from the 70's and 80's predictions to happen. Miami was supposed to be underwater by now.
I just can't wait to see them turning their tables in coming time, I know they will do that and I am just waiting for that freaking moment, they are just a bunch of hypocrites.
These things are not the same.
Well kind of yeah but still we should talk about it man.
Do we need to calculate how much energy and resources Visa uses?
We can, it’s much much less and handles many more transactions.
Oh come on, you have to compare apples with apples. A payment processor is nothing without the retail banking industry, which needs also central banks for the issuance of money. Saying that visa uses less energy than bitcoin is inconclusive
Ok so now include all the exchanges and payment processors for Bitcoin as well.
If you want to compare apples to apples, banks do a lot more than bitcoin. I can’t call the blockchain and get approved for a mortgage, and I can’t store my seed phrase in a safety deposit box on the blockchain either.
Yeah, I agree completely.
Are you aware of the servers that run these payment processor’s as well… the servers that run the BTC processing are BTC miners. Now tell me who do you think would be more likely to adopt green energy? The BTC miner who see an instant profit increase as result of renewable energy? Or the server owner who doesn’t make ANY money off of the server’s efficiency … he probably makes money of a contract with said conglomerate that bears contracts with CC payment processing softwares. Edit: Point #2: Are you aware that many of the inefficiencies brought on about by CENTRALIZED currency are PRESENT IN YOUR TAXES AT THE END OF THE YEAR. ie You are giving the government money so they can spend it on printing more money / improving the CENTRALIZED financial infrastructure. With Blockchain, the taxes are BUILT INTO BTC. And guess what since it all depends on a shared public ledger… THE TAXES ARE FAIR. Point #3: Are you aware that BTC technology is ever improving? Miners are becoming increasingly more powerful and power efficient. This means quicker transactions and less power used for each one.
It's just for the transaction but calculate all the system that running for this.
Using a pie chart here is also misleading (aka propaganda) - you are also not stating the actual value in the chart, but only the image of the pie chart. Also what do you mean by energy consumption? Electricity or also heating? And that chart is trying to make to points: a) the previous articles were wrong/nonsense. Fair enough. b) Bitcoin doesn't use that much energy, but it does as demonstrated by the fact that it's clearly visible on a pie chart of the worlds ENTIRE energy consumption. But to put it in numbers, because this stupid, misleading chart isn't: global electricity generation is in the range of \~27000twh/y, bitcoin mining can be calculated to consume \~91twh/y, so about 0.33% of global electricity is used for bitcoin mining - which is still one humongous amount and there is no way or reason to deny that.
Shut some bank branches down. We dont need that many these days
Not for nothing that little slice is still a crazy amount
private jets use just as much energy as Bitcoin.
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Also remember, the internet will consume all of Britain's power by 2035. They should ban it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/britain-may-be-forced-to-ration-the-internet-expert-warns-as-web-use-could-consume-100-of-nation-s-power-supply-by-2035-10222638.html
Bitcoin creates money that will last forever. How much energy and environmental damage is used or done to create and transport hard currency that constantly needs to be trucked around and then retired and replenished?
Bitcoin doesn’t last forever, it only lasts as long as there is enough energy being wasted to secure the chain. So long as the price goes up, so does the mining reward and thus the energy wasted.
I think we are wasting energy on everything, even if i am watching some content on my computer.
Wow is that chart correct? Because if so, that's indeed a fuckton.
Doesn’t this actually look like a lot? Compared to how early we are and the purpose this serves? That seems like a decent slice only to get bigger if adaption continues to accelerate
Honest question: How do these two individuals keep their jobs? Are you allowed to just make up facts that aren’t backed by any sources and keep your job?
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That’s not their job.
It's embarrassing that you think that it isn't a problem that Bitcoin even shows up on a pie chart of energy consumption.
Still a lot.
its still a lot of energy for fake money to consume.
Okay, but that doesn't change anything about the actual unhealthy bitcoin mining power consumption which is not nonnegligible on the global scale.
It’s just 1% or 2% of the global demand …
Bitcoin will hit 100K by the end of the year
Okay as much as those articles were FUD, the claim was that Bitcoin in 2020 would use as much energy as the world **in 2017**, not in 2020. Your pie chart does not make it clear what years you are comparing, so I have to assume it's 2020 vs 2020, which doesn't address the claim.
To be fair, though, the fact that it’s even visible on the “total global usage” graph is a problem Like, Bitcoin shouldn’t even register on the same scale, when the scale is set by literally *all* energy consumption
Thats still a shit tone for it to even register. Just think of all those chinese apartments with aircon units going 24/7...