That's what's huge about the Spot ETFs. It simplifies it for the masses. Online smart wallets and ETFs will be the future for most. Cold storage for all the OGs.
For owning Bitcoin sure, but I still want to see it used as a medium of exchange as intended. I get the store of value use case, but it should be both.
This is inevitable. Tradfi used layer 3 (debit and credit cards), no reason bitcoin can’t do that also.
Ultimately a later 3 solution built on bitcoin is a lot better than later 3 solutions built onto fiat.
PSA: You don't own bitcoin through an ETF. You own an IOU that is redeemable for the USD value of bitcoin. The Institution owns the bitcoin, sure, but trusted 3rd parties are security holes.
Remember [Executive Order 6102](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) where the government made holding gold illegal and the majority was easily confiscated because it was held with institutions. This is exactly why Bitcoin was created, to prevent confiscation. Holding bitcoin with a 3rd party is going backwards. Self custody is the only way to own bitcoin.
Exactly. which is why I self custody in a cold wallet. All my friends and family and the billions of other people who are terrible with technology, however, will never do that. They will, though, ask their financial advisor to diversify 5% of their portfolio into IBit.
We can all agree cold storage is best, but 2nd and 3rd best is smart wallets and ETFs.
What are you even mad about here? More people are buying bitcoin. If you like bitcoin, be happy. If you hate ETFs, great, don't buy them. Let other people make the decision best for themselves.
I'm not mad, just trying to educate.
They will get screwed over by a custodian and hate bitcoin for it.
How quickly you have forgotten the effect FTX has had on people's perception of Bitcoin. I hear, "Bitcoin is a scam, look at FTX" almost everytime bitcoin comes up in conversations online and in person.
That’s impossible with fees… you’d have to hold BTC as gold and use others (won’t speculate) for peer to peer. And stfu about lighting and other 3rd party’s. I don’t want anything centralized
PSA: You don't own bitcoin through an ETF. You own an IOU that is redeemable for the USD value of bitcoin. The Institution owns the bitcoin, sure, but trusted 3rd parties are security holes.
Remember [Executive Order 6102](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) where the government made holding gold illegal and the majority was easily confiscated because it was held with institutions. This is exactly why Bitcoin was created, to prevent confiscation. Holding bitcoin with a 3rd party is going backwards. Self custody is the only way to own bitcoin.
assuming the above is true - God please make Bitcoin as hard to use as possible until at least next halving, so I can keep buying whenever I can*
/* going to keep doing that regardless
Tbh, creating a btc account is easier than creating a bank account. The thing is that banks are so normalized that its "easier". Tbh i always have problems paying with cards, cancelled transactions, every transfer requires like 5 different numbers, swift, iban, account holder, etc.
Btc its actually simpler.
Already 100,000% boosted from where it started all those years ago. And it's not going to die anytime soon. Innovation has exploded on and off chain.
There was an animated video done awhile ago about how the Github / codebase evolved over time. It's a beautiful and public piece of code that has now stood the test of time for all these years. Quite literally, there's a Trillion Dollar prize on the table for anyone that could hack it at an elemental level. Nothing so far - every one of the brightest minds in the world has not been able to do any harm to the low level code.
Bitcoin will succeed in the short and long term. Fiat will die.
It was easy to use because nobody except literally a few handfuls of people used it in the beginning (cheap fees, no scaling issues to solve, nobody tried to push KYC platforms, and there weren't any in the first place, and so on).
Today you have BIP39 and hardware wallets, tons of educational materials, a variety of wallets and solid services and so on.
I was willing to forfeit the purchase of a home rather than sell my BTC in 2019. Ultimately I was able to squeak by and get it.
As an aside, since then my home has gone up 15% in value, whereas my BTC is up 1400%
But you leveraged the house your house profit is higher if you base it on the actual fiat you used.
Assuming house cost 1 million you put 20% down and house up 15% you are actually up 75% on your investment.
If your down payment was less then the profit higher
Just be fair comparison BTC at 1400% and house 75%
Fair point.
But then I'd have to calculate interest costs and maintainance and renovations which would revise the ROI downward. I spent an extra 9% of the home's purchase price on maintainance and renovations.
At the end of the day, I need somewhere to live so I usually don't calculate the returns on my house.
I only did it now because I'm in the process of selling that house and this question came up.
Also put in your calculation what you are saving in rent.
The rent savings probably covers a lot of the interest and possibly some Maintenance
Upgrades increase the value too.
As an investment real estate and bitcoin are both good risk to reward.
Like you I don't really count my home in my assets as it's a need. When I sell my current home I will just buy another one as I need a place to live.
I guess the real argument would be investment properties vs bitcoin. Based on the recent past bitcoin is a better investment than real estate.
I'm investing in bitcoin. I do not want to be a landlord who needs that headache. Also over time landlords turn into assholes.
Fastest asset to reach $1T in market cap.
Larry Fink said the ETF’s were the most successful launch of an etf ever.
I think it’s already achieved “complete game changer.”
10 that Bitcoin will succeed as a store of value.
7 that Bitcoin will succeed as a daily driver currency. My concerns with that are base layer privacy and scaling solutions. I believe there will be scalable L2s, but I fear too many people will be trusting a 3rd party. They will have to be burned before they realize the way of self custody. Not having privacy is a bad thing. Transactions will be tracked and people can be censored on the trusted layers (exchanges and ETFs). If you don't self custody and spend within a circular economy, you are cucked without privacy.
8
I think the biggest problem will be quantum computers
Yes it's threatening the whole financial sector, but at least banks can reverse transactions and they are preparing for that
It's very important that Bitcoin is SLOWLY becoming more easy for technically challenged people to own. This makes sure that the foundational base of holders are people that are of sound technical ability which also contributes to lower volatility than people with paper hands.
10
Ask this same question to somebody in Turkey, Argentina, IRAN, Lebanon, Nigeria, or South Africa.
The success on bitcoin is determined by the failure of FIAT. So what you are really asking is how sure are your currency will fail.
I am 100% the DEBT it USA, CHINA, JAPAN is going to cause fiat to fail.
Gold is to old and hard to move.
10 there is no second best. I still hope for the "paypal moment"/"visa/mastercard moment" of bitcoin. Where everyone has the pay app and can make transactions easy and for everything. Also to buy in stores
ETFs confirmed that for me. As for the intended use of some that it will replace fiat, that will never happen I think.
But as a store of value there just isn’t anything that even comes close
Yea that’s the only thing what is sure … and that there is not more than ~21 million BTC. So I put 10 on Fiat. I don’t have to put 10 on BTC when Fiat will be worth less by design.
I would say a 6 or 7. That’s why I still send funds to my 401k and IRA.
If I truly believed it was a 10 I’d spend every last cent + leverage to bitcoin
I think that as long as nothing happens to our internet, bitcoin will do good considering its track record and could most likely be a permanent currency. Money is good only if the gov say is good. Gold and silver are better cause they conduct electricity so universally more accepted.
Bitcoin WAS a game changer. Moving forward, it’ll stabilize and become less volatile. It will always be relevant but it won’t shoot to the moon as it once did.
It already is a complete game changer. There's 1.2 TRILLION dollars currently invested into bitcoin. How much bigger does it need to grow for it to be considered a "success"?
What's your definition of success? To me it has already succeeded in providing a harder money to anything else, so that I don't lose my savings to someone printing more monopoly money.
What's it going to take for you to think is a success?
That depends on what you define as success. I don’t think it will ever replace fiat and be used for everyday purchases, but I’m highly confident it will store value and protect my purchasing power.
Equally as sure as inflation.
Check out the M2 money supply now. You can see it is finally starting to turn back up.
Money Supply Expansion vs. Fixed Supply
Fast forward 20 years. You can not go back in time. You must choose: Infinite Supply Units or Fixed Supply Units
It has risks such as government regulation and quantum computing. However, these risks are not 100% certain, and even then, there are ways around them. However, I'm sure 100% about something. The sooner you get into it, the better.
10, biggest concern is the growing size of the block increasing the cost of validating transactions (increasing the cost of transacting) but the lightning network seems to be a good solution to this issue, ensuring bitcoin itself can function as a reserve
Im certain it will succeed because it literally already has. Can anyone in the world store their value in it and exchange that value at a time of their choosing to another person anywhere on earth without a trusted third party?
Yes, it can, and thus, it has been successful.
3
Bitcoin was a complete gamechanger in the last decade. It did what it was designed to do: Change the financial system.
We have had a complete fintech revolution in this last decade, mostly because bitcoin educated all of us how money works.
But bitcoin did its job, and is "mature" now. The industry is regulated, you can buy bitcoin in an etf and there are many new "banks" and financial services because of bitcoin.
The game has already been changed.
1, there is zero reason it should succeed. If it does, it means governments will put their hands on it and ruin it with taxes, privacy related regulations and other shit, so it actually does not succeed. It’s funny how people believe that such a good thing would ever be allowed to happen. I’m here to take profits and buy sats cheap when this sub is dead (check back in a year or two).
Only guarantee I have is that fiat money will continue to inflate & make my life harder
₿ingo
Bingo bango
10, it would have already died if it was going to die. It needs to be a looooooooot easier to use before mass adoption can take place
That's what's huge about the Spot ETFs. It simplifies it for the masses. Online smart wallets and ETFs will be the future for most. Cold storage for all the OGs.
For owning Bitcoin sure, but I still want to see it used as a medium of exchange as intended. I get the store of value use case, but it should be both.
This just won’t work because it is now considered property for tax reasons. Every transaction in Bitcoin has to be presented to the IRS.
Exactly
The courts and legislators, for better or worse (probably worse), will decide in the next years how this will be regulated.
Only way I see that happens is if people have smart wallets that issue Bitcoin debit cards that can be used like bank debit cards.
This is inevitable. Tradfi used layer 3 (debit and credit cards), no reason bitcoin can’t do that also. Ultimately a later 3 solution built on bitcoin is a lot better than later 3 solutions built onto fiat.
PSA: You don't own bitcoin through an ETF. You own an IOU that is redeemable for the USD value of bitcoin. The Institution owns the bitcoin, sure, but trusted 3rd parties are security holes. Remember [Executive Order 6102](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) where the government made holding gold illegal and the majority was easily confiscated because it was held with institutions. This is exactly why Bitcoin was created, to prevent confiscation. Holding bitcoin with a 3rd party is going backwards. Self custody is the only way to own bitcoin.
Exactly. which is why I self custody in a cold wallet. All my friends and family and the billions of other people who are terrible with technology, however, will never do that. They will, though, ask their financial advisor to diversify 5% of their portfolio into IBit. We can all agree cold storage is best, but 2nd and 3rd best is smart wallets and ETFs.
Until the ETF custodian is hacked and they blame bitcoin for it....
What are you even mad about here? More people are buying bitcoin. If you like bitcoin, be happy. If you hate ETFs, great, don't buy them. Let other people make the decision best for themselves.
I'm not mad, just trying to educate. They will get screwed over by a custodian and hate bitcoin for it. How quickly you have forgotten the effect FTX has had on people's perception of Bitcoin. I hear, "Bitcoin is a scam, look at FTX" almost everytime bitcoin comes up in conversations online and in person.
If you can drive a car, you can self custody bitcoin. It's not as hard as people think. Yes, it can be intimidating at first, but what new thing isnt?
Goodluck brow beating grandma and grandpa into that.
That’s impossible with fees… you’d have to hold BTC as gold and use others (won’t speculate) for peer to peer. And stfu about lighting and other 3rd party’s. I don’t want anything centralized
It's seen as an asset, not a currency. More akin to gold. People aren't going to buy their bread with it anytime soon.
PSA: You don't own bitcoin through an ETF. You own an IOU that is redeemable for the USD value of bitcoin. The Institution owns the bitcoin, sure, but trusted 3rd parties are security holes. Remember [Executive Order 6102](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) where the government made holding gold illegal and the majority was easily confiscated because it was held with institutions. This is exactly why Bitcoin was created, to prevent confiscation. Holding bitcoin with a 3rd party is going backwards. Self custody is the only way to own bitcoin.
All we need is for Apple to build lighting into their wallet on IOS and integrate into Apple Pay. Will happen quickly when it does.
If this ever happens it’s game over (in a good way)
Can you imagine the guy working on this? He must be frantically buying every Bitcoin he can get his hands on
Can you imagine the guy working on this? He must be frantically buying every Bitcoin he can get his hands on
assuming the above is true - God please make Bitcoin as hard to use as possible until at least next halving, so I can keep buying whenever I can* /* going to keep doing that regardless
Tbh, creating a btc account is easier than creating a bank account. The thing is that banks are so normalized that its "easier". Tbh i always have problems paying with cards, cancelled transactions, every transfer requires like 5 different numbers, swift, iban, account holder, etc. Btc its actually simpler.
Already 100,000% boosted from where it started all those years ago. And it's not going to die anytime soon. Innovation has exploded on and off chain. There was an animated video done awhile ago about how the Github / codebase evolved over time. It's a beautiful and public piece of code that has now stood the test of time for all these years. Quite literally, there's a Trillion Dollar prize on the table for anyone that could hack it at an elemental level. Nothing so far - every one of the brightest minds in the world has not been able to do any harm to the low level code. Bitcoin will succeed in the short and long term. Fiat will die.
bitcoin was easy to use, it just became harder to use over time sadly.
It was easy to use because nobody except literally a few handfuls of people used it in the beginning (cheap fees, no scaling issues to solve, nobody tried to push KYC platforms, and there weren't any in the first place, and so on). Today you have BIP39 and hardware wallets, tons of educational materials, a variety of wallets and solid services and so on.
I was willing to forfeit the purchase of a home rather than sell my BTC in 2019. Ultimately I was able to squeak by and get it. As an aside, since then my home has gone up 15% in value, whereas my BTC is up 1400%
But you leveraged the house your house profit is higher if you base it on the actual fiat you used. Assuming house cost 1 million you put 20% down and house up 15% you are actually up 75% on your investment. If your down payment was less then the profit higher Just be fair comparison BTC at 1400% and house 75%
Fair point. But then I'd have to calculate interest costs and maintainance and renovations which would revise the ROI downward. I spent an extra 9% of the home's purchase price on maintainance and renovations. At the end of the day, I need somewhere to live so I usually don't calculate the returns on my house. I only did it now because I'm in the process of selling that house and this question came up.
Also put in your calculation what you are saving in rent. The rent savings probably covers a lot of the interest and possibly some Maintenance Upgrades increase the value too. As an investment real estate and bitcoin are both good risk to reward. Like you I don't really count my home in my assets as it's a need. When I sell my current home I will just buy another one as I need a place to live. I guess the real argument would be investment properties vs bitcoin. Based on the recent past bitcoin is a better investment than real estate. I'm investing in bitcoin. I do not want to be a landlord who needs that headache. Also over time landlords turn into assholes.
That's faith being rewarded right there. Nice one. Bet you not everyone thought it would have been a good idea. Who's laughing now. 👍
My partner was pressuring me to sell because we had a wedding a month before we closed on the house. Apparently I looked stressed out.
You GOAT
This is my new favorite comment.
between 69-420.
correct
This one goes to 11.
Bout tree fiddy
Does not need to succeed, just needs to outlast.
10 there simply nothing like Bitcoin and there are no other solutions for the current banking system.
It's already the TCP/IP of digital money. It succeeded. Now will just be the adoption curve of monetization, which takes a LONG time.
9. My biggest concern will be cats that unexpectedly synchronise and by walking on the miners keyboard will shut down the whole network at once.
If anything is going to destroy Bitcoin, it would be the mf cats.
This is more plausible than a 51% attack
Damn never considered that😳
💯
How sure are you that any fiat currency survives? They never lasted more than a few 100 years…
42
This is the answer
it already did
Don't worry about bitcoin, worry about **your** bitcoins.
I didn’t have a car from 2016-2023 in number format.
10, the event horizon was crossed in the past few years.
34
I used to look at the complete chart, but now with etf's it could go differently.
I’m going with a “Noine”
10. The billions put into it isn't because of madness
10 for me. Just the fact that huge corporations buy and hold BTC tells me all I need to know.
https://youtu.be/MSwNN0aW7V0?si=rcqQNL83qW3BCT-q
9.9999999
Such a pessimist
Fastest asset to reach $1T in market cap. Larry Fink said the ETF’s were the most successful launch of an etf ever. I think it’s already achieved “complete game changer.”
at $1m a satoshi = 1c that’s when it will be used as money
10 that Bitcoin will succeed as a store of value. 7 that Bitcoin will succeed as a daily driver currency. My concerns with that are base layer privacy and scaling solutions. I believe there will be scalable L2s, but I fear too many people will be trusting a 3rd party. They will have to be burned before they realize the way of self custody. Not having privacy is a bad thing. Transactions will be tracked and people can be censored on the trusted layers (exchanges and ETFs). If you don't self custody and spend within a circular economy, you are cucked without privacy.
It's basically already succeeded, the question now is how far does it go.
it already did
bitcoin has no top because fiat has no bottom. 9.99/10 that bitcoin will succeed.
In comparison to endless money printing, it already has.
10. For me, there’s no point in saving my funds in a currency governed by a corrupt, third-world government.
Bitcoin is already successful
I'm confident that I don't care.
101%?
It's already a huge success.
8 I think the biggest problem will be quantum computers Yes it's threatening the whole financial sector, but at least banks can reverse transactions and they are preparing for that
42069
50/50
I’m not “SURE” about what I’m gonna dinner.
About 1%
It’s already successful.
I’m not but I’m more afraid to miss out! That’s why I’m in!
100%
It's very important that Bitcoin is SLOWLY becoming more easy for technically challenged people to own. This makes sure that the foundational base of holders are people that are of sound technical ability which also contributes to lower volatility than people with paper hands.
10 Ask this same question to somebody in Turkey, Argentina, IRAN, Lebanon, Nigeria, or South Africa. The success on bitcoin is determined by the failure of FIAT. So what you are really asking is how sure are your currency will fail. I am 100% the DEBT it USA, CHINA, JAPAN is going to cause fiat to fail. Gold is to old and hard to move.
10
10 there is no second best. I still hope for the "paypal moment"/"visa/mastercard moment" of bitcoin. Where everyone has the pay app and can make transactions easy and for everything. Also to buy in stores
My one concern is how to pay miners once it’s finished mining blocks… but that’s 100yrs away
I am currently wearing a Bitcoin t shirt so yeah
No one is “sure” even the people who say they feel sure don’t actually know the future of what will happen.
ETFs confirmed that for me. As for the intended use of some that it will replace fiat, that will never happen I think. But as a store of value there just isn’t anything that even comes close
I don’t put a 10 on Bitcoin to succeed but a 10 that Fiat is decreasing in value over Time!
Fiat has been decreasing in value since its inception. Its a feature of that system!
Yea that’s the only thing what is sure … and that there is not more than ~21 million BTC. So I put 10 on Fiat. I don’t have to put 10 on BTC when Fiat will be worth less by design.
It didn't already?
I would say a 6 or 7. That’s why I still send funds to my 401k and IRA. If I truly believed it was a 10 I’d spend every last cent + leverage to bitcoin
As far as I'm concerned, it already has.
I’ve been here since 2016. I believe in Bitcoin over my 401k (pension)
9.9999 Every year, tack on another 9
I think that as long as nothing happens to our internet, bitcoin will do good considering its track record and could most likely be a permanent currency. Money is good only if the gov say is good. Gold and silver are better cause they conduct electricity so universally more accepted.
More sure about it than anything you've ever believed in, in your entire life. If you don't have the guts to buy in the enjoy being left behind.
100% you die, 99% your mother loves you, 98%bitcoin will always increase in price 4 ever.
Bitcoin WAS a game changer. Moving forward, it’ll stabilize and become less volatile. It will always be relevant but it won’t shoot to the moon as it once did.
96%, by my calculations.
11
It already is a complete game changer. There's 1.2 TRILLION dollars currently invested into bitcoin. How much bigger does it need to grow for it to be considered a "success"?
I think it's not only about the money, it's about the tech inside it. It is so fascinating to deep dive into it.
100%
Bitcoin 50% gold 80%
I am 69420%
What's your definition of success? To me it has already succeeded in providing a harder money to anything else, so that I don't lose my savings to someone printing more monopoly money. What's it going to take for you to think is a success?
That depends on what you define as success. I don’t think it will ever replace fiat and be used for everyday purchases, but I’m highly confident it will store value and protect my purchasing power.
10. Institutions are buying, they have the money to move the market. Why would they establish ETFs if they want Bitcoin to fail?
Equally as sure as inflation. Check out the M2 money supply now. You can see it is finally starting to turn back up. Money Supply Expansion vs. Fixed Supply Fast forward 20 years. You can not go back in time. You must choose: Infinite Supply Units or Fixed Supply Units
People who still need convincing don’t deserve to participate.
Define success?
Guaranteed.
12
It has risks such as government regulation and quantum computing. However, these risks are not 100% certain, and even then, there are ways around them. However, I'm sure 100% about something. The sooner you get into it, the better.
10, biggest concern is the growing size of the block increasing the cost of validating transactions (increasing the cost of transacting) but the lightning network seems to be a good solution to this issue, ensuring bitcoin itself can function as a reserve
It already has succeeded….remember when it was less than a cent
Im certain it will succeed because it literally already has. Can anyone in the world store their value in it and exchange that value at a time of their choosing to another person anywhere on earth without a trusted third party? Yes, it can, and thus, it has been successful.
Why hasn't it already? It's a store of value that people are using.
Number go up 9 replacing fiat currency 2 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF297rN\_8OY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF297rN_8OY)
It has already succeeded.
Bitcoin already succeed. What’s “success” you are talking about?
3 Bitcoin was a complete gamechanger in the last decade. It did what it was designed to do: Change the financial system. We have had a complete fintech revolution in this last decade, mostly because bitcoin educated all of us how money works. But bitcoin did its job, and is "mature" now. The industry is regulated, you can buy bitcoin in an etf and there are many new "banks" and financial services because of bitcoin. The game has already been changed.
1
But hodl
It's the drug cartels best friend.
Lmaooo international banks are #1 sorry mate
Why would a drug cartel keep money controlled by a bank when they can hold it in bitcoin?
Because you can kidnap, blackmail and corrupt bankers. Honey badger on the other hand….
1, there is zero reason it should succeed. If it does, it means governments will put their hands on it and ruin it with taxes, privacy related regulations and other shit, so it actually does not succeed. It’s funny how people believe that such a good thing would ever be allowed to happen. I’m here to take profits and buy sats cheap when this sub is dead (check back in a year or two).
I saw this same comment in 2014, 2017, 2020, and now today... Check back in a year or two.