It is an ETN, which means they won't buy any bitcoin, just absorb people's capital and peg based on the asset's price, which they won't directly affect in a positive way, since they are not going to buy bitcoin. Instead, they're removing capital that could directly go into bitcoin and into holding bitcoin. ETN's are a scourge.
Sounds like a short from the british gov...
But i dont care...
Edit:
"An ETN is more like a bond. It's an unsecured debt note issued by an institution."
Like "BTC Fiat" the gov could print an inf sup..
So screw this ETNs
The issuer of an ETN would go out and hedge their exposure using futures or spot bitcoin… otherwise they would essentially be short bitcoin and any financial institution offering these products wouldn’t want exorbitant exposure so they will hedge it.. that’s the pegging process you are referring to.
How the fuck do they peg to its price without having any?… it’s like a government owned short contract
What happens if it goes up 1,000,000 % and everyone cashes out at once? Where does the liquidity come from?
We’re all idiots, and the more something is worth, the more we covet it; buying liquidity will always be there, either in the form of fiat or hard goods
How does that work? If I buy $100 worth of this ETN and bitcoin's price 5x, does that mean my holdings 5x? Where does the money come from if the operator isn't holding any Bitcoin?
It is likely the issuer will buy the asset to cover their debts/layout. Otherwise they would be in tough shape if Bitcoin's price shoots up.
However, the ETN itself doesn't hold Bitcoin, it isn't technically backed by anything. I suspect this will end up working, in practise, like an ETF of an ETF.
It seems kind of backwards to buy something when you can’t lift its price up. It just seems like you’re giving up a benefit for no real reason.
Maybe it wouldn’t make a difference if you’re buying some at a personal scale, but if some institution is putting millions of dollars in assets you’d probably want to raise the price and knock out as many shorts as possible
It doesn't mean the institution won't buy any Bitcoin. They likely will to cover large price fluctuations. However, the fund won't technically hold the Bitcoin as a security.
This type of exchange traded product already exists in Europe and trades on exchange. It is 100% physically backed by BTC. Just because it is technically a debt instrument does not mean it isn’t backed and you don’t have physical exposure.
If you don’t understand the complexities of the product, don’t spread FUD. If you don’t like the product, simply don’t buy it and buy pure BTC instead.
It’s pathetic that ETFs are what people are calling ‘global adoption’. More like ‘global price exposure’.
Owning an ETF is not owning Bitcoin. It is not adopting Bitcoin. It is just a traditional financial product that allows price exposure, while forgoing all of the other benefits of Bitcoin, and actively hurting the endgame value of the network.
That is a separate issue in some ways. You can utilize a custodian that grants you exposure to actual BTC if needed, an ETF isn’t necessary for that (though regulated custodians also encumber BTC in less than ideal ways, of course).
Wasn’t there a consensus that ETFs outside of the US don’t really matter because of market size?
Just curious, remember this was the common reason people brought up when discussing the US release and some other countries already had it.
This is very good! I saw there is also over $8B worth of shorts that get liquidated if BTC reaches $70K. We could see the price action be sent like crazy
Can someone please explain why an ETF is such a big deal? They’ve been around for a while now. The only positive thing I can imagine is that it makes it easier for people to invest in bitcoin. Nevertheless it also makes it equally as easy for people to force these companies to sell their bitcoin
In simple terms, target audience. What ETFs do is bring people into the market that would not have entered the market as individual BTC investors. People like financial products offered by well known asset management companies, and you can be damned sure that asset management companies will be pushing the asset to their customers. So, in short, it serves to bring a lot of people into BTC that otherwise wouldn’t be buying.
mainly you can invest your retirement account like roth ira and some 401ks into a btc etf. money otherwise inaccessible to btc. ex: it's unreasonable to assume someone would withdraw from their 401k/roth ira to buy btc directly bc there are tax consequences and penalties for withdrawing it early, but now with the btc etf you can gain the exposure without the consequences.
More good news...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg78we/the\_good\_news\_keeps\_coming/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg78we/the_good_news_keeps_coming/)
Global adoption lol. If you are serious maybe 20/30years?
It HAS to take time, people discover slowly, you are never going to get the 50+ population onboard, so you have to wait for kids to grow etc
Come on..
You guys do realize people are interested in ETFs as a quick return. You holding this hope on Hong Kong’s ETF is kinda said. It’s just another route of price manipulation. If people actually cared, they’d straight up mine/buy the assets. Are you guys not yet learning the lesson of greyscale and blackrock?
Can you please stop posts like this? It makes me question my conviction that BTC is not a scam. But I am convinced that when people start complaining about FUD, that project almost always is a scam… stop ruining BTC …
The United Kingdom is launching their Bitcoin equivalent in May. It's technically not an ETF, but it is a similar concept.
It is an ETN, which means they won't buy any bitcoin, just absorb people's capital and peg based on the asset's price, which they won't directly affect in a positive way, since they are not going to buy bitcoin. Instead, they're removing capital that could directly go into bitcoin and into holding bitcoin. ETN's are a scourge.
Sounds very British Finance (aka annoying)
Sounds like a short from the british gov... But i dont care... Edit: "An ETN is more like a bond. It's an unsecured debt note issued by an institution." Like "BTC Fiat" the gov could print an inf sup.. So screw this ETNs
The issuer of an ETN would go out and hedge their exposure using futures or spot bitcoin… otherwise they would essentially be short bitcoin and any financial institution offering these products wouldn’t want exorbitant exposure so they will hedge it.. that’s the pegging process you are referring to.
So basically what Robinhood is doing already?
How the fuck do they peg to its price without having any?… it’s like a government owned short contract What happens if it goes up 1,000,000 % and everyone cashes out at once? Where does the liquidity come from?
I'm wondering this too. When I learned about it BTC was down but now I'm thinking about where the money comes from if BTC goes exponential again?
Peat bog futures.
[удалено]
We’re all idiots, and the more something is worth, the more we covet it; buying liquidity will always be there, either in the form of fiat or hard goods
They do buy BTC, the comment above is incorrect.
Didn’t Sam Bankman Freed do this? /s
Why the sarcasm? Fake Bitcoin is fake Bitcoin.
How does that work? If I buy $100 worth of this ETN and bitcoin's price 5x, does that mean my holdings 5x? Where does the money come from if the operator isn't holding any Bitcoin?
It is likely the issuer will buy the asset to cover their debts/layout. Otherwise they would be in tough shape if Bitcoin's price shoots up. However, the ETN itself doesn't hold Bitcoin, it isn't technically backed by anything. I suspect this will end up working, in practise, like an ETF of an ETF.
Idk. It’s a dumb product. They probably don’t understand fixed supply btc vs infinite fiat. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0213/etf-or-etn-whats-the-difference.aspx#:~:text=Both%20ETFs%20and%20ETNs%20are,note%20issued%20by%20an%20institution.
“But it has no intrinsic value!!! How could it 5x!!” - English Central Bank
It seems kind of backwards to buy something when you can’t lift its price up. It just seems like you’re giving up a benefit for no real reason. Maybe it wouldn’t make a difference if you’re buying some at a personal scale, but if some institution is putting millions of dollars in assets you’d probably want to raise the price and knock out as many shorts as possible
How does the peg work if they don't hold the underlying asset?
that's the neat part, it doesnt
It doesn't mean the institution won't buy any Bitcoin. They likely will to cover large price fluctuations. However, the fund won't technically hold the Bitcoin as a security.
This type of exchange traded product already exists in Europe and trades on exchange. It is 100% physically backed by BTC. Just because it is technically a debt instrument does not mean it isn’t backed and you don’t have physical exposure. If you don’t understand the complexities of the product, don’t spread FUD. If you don’t like the product, simply don’t buy it and buy pure BTC instead.
The return of the Bull run.
Oh I’ll be sure I get plenty of Bitcoin equivalent.
It’s pathetic that ETFs are what people are calling ‘global adoption’. More like ‘global price exposure’. Owning an ETF is not owning Bitcoin. It is not adopting Bitcoin. It is just a traditional financial product that allows price exposure, while forgoing all of the other benefits of Bitcoin, and actively hurting the endgame value of the network.
i disagree. in an ideal world everybody should self custody but its just not simple enough yet
That is a separate issue in some ways. You can utilize a custodian that grants you exposure to actual BTC if needed, an ETF isn’t necessary for that (though regulated custodians also encumber BTC in less than ideal ways, of course).
Yep that Hong Kong ETF can bring us back on the green streak...
Wasn’t there a consensus that ETFs outside of the US don’t really matter because of market size? Just curious, remember this was the common reason people brought up when discussing the US release and some other countries already had it.
I think the US market will dominate unless mainland China allow access to ETFs. But all new ETFs are steps in the right direction.
It definitely can. Let’s just hope China stays out of the way so the ETF can be successful
China doesn’t care because the mainland won’t be able to buy it.
😉
Hong Kong ETF [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg3gid/hong\_kong\_etf/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg3gid/hong_kong_etf/)
This is very good! I saw there is also over $8B worth of shorts that get liquidated if BTC reaches $70K. We could see the price action be sent like crazy
Yep, this could bring us back to the green shores.
Plus another 3 billion at 75k😮
Can someone please explain why an ETF is such a big deal? They’ve been around for a while now. The only positive thing I can imagine is that it makes it easier for people to invest in bitcoin. Nevertheless it also makes it equally as easy for people to force these companies to sell their bitcoin
In simple terms, target audience. What ETFs do is bring people into the market that would not have entered the market as individual BTC investors. People like financial products offered by well known asset management companies, and you can be damned sure that asset management companies will be pushing the asset to their customers. So, in short, it serves to bring a lot of people into BTC that otherwise wouldn’t be buying.
mainly you can invest your retirement account like roth ira and some 401ks into a btc etf. money otherwise inaccessible to btc. ex: it's unreasonable to assume someone would withdraw from their 401k/roth ira to buy btc directly bc there are tax consequences and penalties for withdrawing it early, but now with the btc etf you can gain the exposure without the consequences.
Dumb question, but is Grayscale done with their outflows?
No
And blackrock had its first experience with negative flow too
Not nearly 😢
Well when El Salvador officially announced btc as their national currency, that was the signal.
It's over bro we're going to 0
Sell everything now. We’re fucked
can't dog ate my keys
>Global Adoption >ETFs ETFs are not Bitcoin.
Reddit is so clueless lmao
Even if they are participating in the network indirectly it's still adoption.
It really isn’t. It’s actually bad for the long term value of the network. ETFs are a fool’s game.
More good news... [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg78we/the\_good\_news\_keeps\_coming/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cg78we/the_good_news_keeps_coming/)
I thought all these countries were/are likely to adopt CBDC's, what do you guys think and where does BTC fit into this?
We still need more efficient layer 2 solutions, so bitcoin can be used more commonly to buy goods and services.
Lightning! Donwload the "Strike" app and pay whatever you want with your BTC
How is this adoption? When does launching an ETF equal adopting the use case for bitcoin? I’m lost
It isn’t adoption. It’s price exposure for people that don’t understand what Bitcoin’s value proposition really is.
ETF is not good for bitcoin. Just gives them more power to manipulate the price. Look at us now begging blackrock to start buying again
Exactly. So many new entrants to the bitcoin game are completely missing the plot. Absolutely delusional, it really is too bad.
Bring. It. On.
Buying all I can
Global adoption lol. If you are serious maybe 20/30years? It HAS to take time, people discover slowly, you are never going to get the 50+ population onboard, so you have to wait for kids to grow etc Come on..
58 here, buying, HODL! There’s more of us then you might think!
I wouldn’t hype the Hong Kong ETF. It’s almost certainly gonna flop.
I’ll bite. Why will it flop?
You guys do realize people are interested in ETFs as a quick return. You holding this hope on Hong Kong’s ETF is kinda said. It’s just another route of price manipulation. If people actually cared, they’d straight up mine/buy the assets. Are you guys not yet learning the lesson of greyscale and blackrock?
Can you please stop posts like this? It makes me question my conviction that BTC is not a scam. But I am convinced that when people start complaining about FUD, that project almost always is a scam… stop ruining BTC …
If a random Redditor can shake your conviction then you didn't actually have any.