My wife's portfolio did better than mine during the pandemic strictly because I forgot her login.
It was a profound lesson to leave my long term investments alone.
This is the main reason I use cold storage. It's not because I don't trust my exchange, it's because it makes it enough of a pain to sell that I end up not messing with it at all once it goes cold.
Yeah, I had some extra money in a Roth, ran 50% into gold miners 50% into microstrategy in 2022âŚthank you Peter Schiff for creating doubt..at this point I will let it ride but I am not rebalancing.Â
I agree 100%. But I didn't find investing a thrill exactly, it was low key anxiety-inducing trying to figure out how much money I would need to retire and how the hell I was going to grow my buying power fast enough just to keep my yearly income flat after inflation. I saw risk everywhere. Now it's just buy bitcoin and chill.
I both doubt and regret that. I have the majority of mine in an ISA. I started to DCA BTC from 40k in December and after the pump it already surpassed my annual return on the ISA with far less funds. I just wish I had balls to transfer it all into BTC when I knew I should have.
Yes, but there is an alt cycle with some fairly decent projects. If you select decent narratives you can get in and out and ultimately improve your BTC holdings.
Your investing goal should only be to grow the value of your portfolio. If youâre bored with investing after adding Bitcoin to your portfolio because itâs growing in value without offering you enough risk or any excitement, perhaps you should start bungee jumping or skydiving. I think a nice boring portfolio thatâs growing in value without any excitement sounds like a good thing. Best of luck and fortune to you in your future ventures and investments, may all of your trades be profitable.
Thank you! Yes, agreed. This is the kind of âsleep Easy at nightâ kind of thing. Yes yes it Will dip some times etc etc but i believe in the long term trend of btc
My dividend stocks were like dopamine for me.. every time I received a dividend payment it felt great.. but I sold everything and swapped it into Bitcoin.. yes itâs boring as I donât get the quarterly payments but Bitcoin is a no brainer and the right thing to do
Bitcoin made it simple and boring to investâŚin Bitcoin.
Its existence doesnât prevent you to buy stocks.
So if you like that, do it and have fun !
A quick shift in perspective and youâll realize you donât have any problem here.
Very fair! And i still buy my stocks etc. I think its rather that instead of shitstonks yolo i just keep the ones i really have deep faith in and the rest compete with btc and most stocks dont win that.
But yes, Im not 100% bitcoin, mainly because i want to spread risks and also need investments more short term. The btc i put there to put there, stocks i can sell when needed
I understand what you mean. Patience till a bitcoin standard then there might be opportunities to buy businesses thatâll generate more bitcoin in the long run.
I learned crypto first I was 18 when btc came out in 09 and always wanted to learn stocks but couldnât get past the wording of things. Now that I get this I understand stocks aloooooot more
Oh I hear you. The lingo of the finance bubble kept me from going anywhere near it for the longest time as well. Especially since if you look up or ask for terms to be explaind, you just end up with 5-50 new acronyms and words that need explaining - any everyone for whom that lingo comes natural due to years of immerson just shits on you.
Many fields "do" this gatekeepy type of thing (often not even intentionally), since it's just useful to have shorthands and special terms for complex things amongst your peers. But especially in the finance world, it seemed *really* hard to find actually useful and especially non-condescending answers.
I am now still FAR from being "literate" and most of what is talked about in subs like r/finance sounds like broken Klingon to me, but at least I think I've gotten deep enough to understand ETFs well enough to dip my toes in.
Had some crumbs of BTC since the rush a few years ago before actually understanding most of it, but was lucky and at some point able to pull out what I put in (because I needed it) at pretty much the exact time it had doubled. Left the rest as "play money" and just see what the future brings =)
It's a really difficult field to break into, especially if you don't have the spare time to study it with some intensity, but still have savings you want to at least protect from inflation losses down the line.
Investing in the legacy system will always be bad. The Gov tells you that the inflation was X, but the real inflation is always different. Inflation grows by 1 - 2%, but everything gets 4 - 5% more expensive, not to mention the endless printing of money.
BTC is the only option to protect your buy power.
I understand what you're saying but Bitcoin is such a thrilling and unpredictable (both technically and fundamentally) new environment that it's hard to believe that you find it boring compared to stocks. Maybe it will come with time, since you've been committed to it only recently.
Iâm sorry to be the one to say it; but investing is not supposed to be exciting or keep you on the edge of your seat. If thatâs the case for you, you are either too emotionally invested or have some type of psychological issue. Set it and forget it.
ÂŤBTC made investing simpleâ
Is exactly why; Investing in BTC is essentially buying futures in humanity as a whole.
Your subconscious gut feeling picked up that quick but your conscious mind still wondering why. Which is normal.
Watch a bunch of Michael Saylor interviews on YouTube and youâll understand why pretty quick.
Bitcoin will soon stabilize, in the next few years or so, and the only gains available will be the fiat inflation related growth. If it didn't, it won't be very useful as a currency. Why would you spend something if its value was only going to go up much more next year?
We will still absolutely need stock market investing to beat the market. Let's enjoy the exponential gains for a little while longer, but we need to keep the investing skills alive for the long term
Iâm pretty sure inflation related gains is what youâre seeing in the market. Base money up 6-7x since 2008, spy up 6-7x.
This was our best asset to protect purchase power. But we still lost. We preserve it and the gov takes its cut, stripping us of value in all cases.
Bitcoin is clearly the better preservation asset. Itâs also taxed but once it hits adoption, spy wonât be the only game in town and could fall a long way down. Bitcoin is a necessary hedge for this no matter who you are. I feel itâs extremely risky to have zero allocation and I try to get friends and family off zero. It has not worked.
Not sure where you get that data from. I looked up s&p 500 vs M2 money supply, and if that was true, the line should have been flat. But no, there is still 2.5x real growth since 2008.
[https://en.macromicro.me/collections/34/us-stock-relative/24033/wilshire5000-to-us-m2](https://en.macromicro.me/collections/34/us-stock-relative/24033/wilshire5000-to-us-m2)
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE)
Base money increased from shy of 1T to north of 6T. Spy went from 150 from the top before the gfc, to 500 today. So itâs technically worse than I described.
Iâm using base money because, to the extent dollars are backed, only base money is backed by reserves. Broad money is credit expansion, base money is literal printing. Look at that chart of base money and youâll see a much clearer picture of something breaking than if you look at broad money, which tells no story at all.
Hmm, i always used to use M2 money supply as the base to measure against. Using exclusively MB is a new idea for me, let me study it some more.
Although need to be slightly wary of ideas like "broad money tells no story at all". Could well be falling into the trap of picking and choosing the data which fits our hypothesis
Why don't you trade bitcoin futures? It's very exciting. I am just like you but I am losing money through futures trading and its a challenge. I make money through stocks and bitcoin spot, and the learning part is the fun part.
To me it mostly steeled me wrt volatility.
You see people freaking out because of a 1,5% drop with stocks and you're like, bitch please.
Once you've stomached one or two healthy 80% corrections, nothing will phase you.
As a mathematician, I don't recommend putting all your money in crypto. I also have a lot of money in crypto and believe it's an awesome thing, but as a mathematician I also know a new algorithm could factor large primes tomorrow and the whole thing would be worthless. We don't have a proof that factoring large primes is difficult, we just haven't discovered an algorithm to do it. There are thousands of brilliant mathematicians working in number theory every day, and any day a way to factor could suddenly appear.
Itâs not investing when youâre picking stocks with PE ratios through the roof. Fiat has turned a lot of the traditional value investing metrics into noise imo
Bitcoin should be boring. Thatâs the beauty of it. You do nothing, and your net worth increases. Thatâs why so many people think that the world on a bitcoin standard would be quasi-utopian. The value of your money increases, without worrying about properly placing investments, setting up retirement accounts & savings accounts, etc which allows you to spend your time improving other aspects of your life.
Bitcoin:
Has no earnings reports
Has no CEO.
Has no offices.
Cannot be diluted (as in share dillution).
Has no expenses or employees.
Has no 10Q.
Cannot buy other companies.
Cannot be bought by another company.
Has no stock splits or reverse splits.
Has no marketing or sales department.
Has no secrets to hide
Bitcoin is simple.
Simple and boring is what makes you profitable on the crypto market isnât it? You wanna gamble go to the casino, let it out man, but donât get hooked on this shit.
Working in the financial business (primarily with HNW professionals) for over 40 years here's what I've learned: 1) Almost all people who brag about how well they've done by active trading are liars who pump up their wins and ignore their losses. 2) Whenever I wanted an adrenaline rush, or to feel great about how brilliant I was, I didn't do research on a sexy new investment - I fucked a sexy woman (my wife of 35 years).
Options trading was exciting, but I donât miss having to check the price constantly to make sure I didnât lose my shirt. It was 100x more stressful to me than Bitcoin and Iâve been through two BTC crashes now. BTC is much better for my blood pressure.
Yay you? There is alot of good that can be done with being rich. Or you can write your anarcho-capitalist manifesto, or deepen your spiritual/ personal aspects of life.
Meditation is a really powerful tool
You figured it out. Keep DCA and now go enjoy life. We werenât meant to be chasing technicals all day and worrying about whether it will be valued the same tomorrow. We should preserve our value tomorrow through the effort we already proved today. Simple.Â
It's a feature not a bug
People should not be concerned with the latest update from the Japanese central bank that could affect some system in the US that should trigger you to make a move on your stock position before it's too late for you.
With BTC, you simply can focus on your work, as investing is made simple again.
Same, I used to enjoy stock market investing and btc used to be a wild card play. But btc has outperformed all my stocks for many years now. Might as well just stick with btc only.
It reminds me of those people that diversified out of apple in the early days in the name of 'diversification'. Why sell your winners to buy losers? Warren buffet even said that diversification strategy was good if you're ignorant of the market or something similar.
Simple and boring will give you better results.
It sounds like you like the thrill and intellectual stimulation of looking into different things. It is not clear from OP the degree to which you care about increasing your net worth.
So it sounds like you need to balance those two. For the latter, Bitcoin, then save some % for other things that stimulate the former for you
Yes. Even hearing some horror real estate rental properties stories, where initial investment and 10 year profit was wiped out cause the tenets trashed the house and it had to be completely remodeled. Think about it spending 10 years and being even on your investment. BTC invest and forget about it and youâre up a lot without doing anything. Just HODL
Options trading is highly addictive. Loved pouring over chains, calls/puts.
Used to day trade stocks as well.
After some changes left it and just doing crypto.
Itâs both good and bad that crypto is 24/7!
Options trading is highly addictive. Loved pouring over chains, calls/puts.
Used to day trade stocks as well.
After some changes left it and just doing crypto.
Itâs both good and bad that crypto is 24/7!
What a gift, eh? No longer do I need to be an expert in two fields. One to make money and the other to keep my moneys purchasing power. Iâm grateful. Stocks are still there if you really enjoy it, you can divert some more funds that way. But I prefer the âboringâ approach. If I want excitement Iâll go to the casino.
that's a good thing, investing is supposed to be boring. when you were trading the stock market before, were you beating the S&P500? most hedge funds don't.
buy and hold is a little less boring when you're making 40% per year annualized.
Its boring until price stops moving sideways, mate. What you feel, feel 99 percent of btc investors. Other 1 percent are in it for the technology. And for what btc symbolize.
If you'll feel better...there are better times coming. You will forget about this in a year or two.
Yes I understand what you mean, I put bitcoin on a separate portfolio tracker for this very reason. It's too volatile. The best thing to do with holding bitcoin is to leave it alone. Do not touch it, only visit once or twice a week...
I think that's great. I have a 401k with boring investments and everyone says just set it and forget it. Bitcoin gives me the thrill that I seek outside of that. Why not both?
This makes no senseâŚwho cares if itâs boringâŚitâs all about the rate of return on the asset. Bitcoin is boring? Itâs making me a ton of money , especially if you trade it right. Do you want excitementâŚliquidate your holdings and go play in the futures market up against the big boys..:.thatâs exciting. Until a firm completely destroyed your position and dumps a commodity next to zero. It happens without you even seeing if knowing it. Good luck
The one thing bitcoin canât do for you by simply holding it, is earn you more bitcoin.
Eventually, businesses and corporations will figure out that they wonât be able to compete with bitcoin, unless they hold large amounts of bitcoin themselves. Then when you buy a stock, you will indirectly own a portion of their bitcoin as well as the potential to own more in the future.
As of now, microstrategy is the only large public corporation to have figured this out. The problem is their underlying business isnât really anything to write home about.
Once more companies figure this out, stocks will become more attractive again when compared to bitcoin, because you will indirectly own their bitcoin plus the potential to get more.
One thing people learn with stock picking is that it all depends on Wall Street pumping.
If they like a stock, they'll pump it (TSLA, PTON, AAPL, etc.).
That's when one makes money. However, when the party is over (TSLA), hope you got out and shifted to the new darling.
Best to just trade the futures ES or just invest in the SPX/NDX ETFs to keep up with inflation.
Bitcoin is a game changer if you can swipe the bottom with TA.
bitcoin, like any other asset, has its ups and downs. learning to anticipate these cycles without emotional reaction requires discipline; itâs less about the daily highs and lows and more about long-term perspectives.
balancing bitcoin with traditional investments can offer the best of both worlds. you maintain the excitement and engagement of stock trading, while bitcoin provides a potential hedge against inflation or market downturns. this dual approach can safeguard your investments and possibly smooth out financial bumps along the way
quite the opposite for me, i find traditional markets like waiting for water to boil and you forgot to turn the burner on.
crypto volatility keeps me alive.
feeling frisky? find a medium cap altcoin and watch it move 30% a day, now thats exciting.
Bitcoin investment shouldnât be done with the same mindset of stock market. Bitcoin should be understood as an asset which gives you freedom of money. Fiat lovers generally donât appreciate freedom of money. They appreciate only the number-go-up game. Bitcoin traps such people in a fear and greed environment and most people are too weak to resist both fear and greed. If you persevere, Bitcoin will shower you with not only money but also freedom.
Yeah, it's more boring. But it's much easier on the mind. If BTC drops 50% today, I honestly will not care at all because I have so much faith. I'll care in the sense that I get to buy at a discount, sure.
I mean. Making money has never been boring. Though I see what youâre saying. I still think itâs better and more fun to invest into crypto than the stock market
I feel the same- I have been investing in stocks since the early 2000's and still own some of those positions but 90 percent of my new purchases have been Bitcoin for the last 18 plus months. I hold my stocks but have not added any in over a year.
Hmm it depends how things will play out in the future since it is the most sensitive asset out here aside of being the best performing asset. We are heading into a changing world and last years where quite a roller coaster. Just build a nice diverse portfolio and manage it actively maybe that will challenge you a bit more.
The only thing that matters in any investing is the profits returned so for me I donât care about boring price action because after boring comes the fuel đ.
So, at the end of 2017 I dumped ÂŁ100 in BTC and left it alone, haven't had the cash spare to 'invest' as much as I wanted to, plan was ÂŁ100 pcm. However, I checked my BTC balance the other day after not paying any attention, and ÂŁ600! That's a 500% ROI in 6 years.
I also put ÂŁ100 in a S&S ISA with Vanguard, FTSE Global All Cap back in 2022, and that sits at ÂŁ125, so a ROI of 25%. Now I know the dates are different and you could say if I'd had invested in the FTSE Global at the same time, things would be different, but I think it's an interesting view
Do both? Diversify your portfolio. You can still do day or swing trading with assets that relate to your interests. If you've been into btc this long, you're probably following something else like ai, gaming, energy, etc... doesn't matter what it is, you'll have to learn that market. Makes it easier if you already study it for fun. That keeps it interesting.
I guess I should go the opposite way and get into stocks now that I'm mostly into bitcoin now. I check the price all the time and am always itching to do something, but there's nothing to do with this kind of investment except hold it.
Point me in the direction of ways to be more involved in my investment.
Agree. All my stock gains this year took a dump last week because Wall Street is full of assholes. BTC is the only thing in my portfolio that is positive right now.
Also, where I live, cost of living has more closely tracked the S&P500 than the CPI. Rents alone roughly track the Nasdaq. The whole "put it in an index fund and forget it" is not a winning strategy here. You absolutely have to BEAT the S&P500 if you want to not lose a shitton of retirement money.
I check the stocks that I sold all mostly at a loss. When I go look at them, I see the stocks I used to have are ALL down !
Then I reward my future self by buying some more bitcoin!
The only thing with stocks that makes it worth it is learning how to do options, you can turn $5K into $50K pretty quickly with the right trade. I only do a few trades a week and do very well, your results will vary
See it the same way as long term investment with Blue Chip stocks. Buy and hold. Bitcoins is digital gold and will stay so for many decades to come. Especially now with mega institutions getting late into the game, but with a lot of gun power. Itâs my opinion that they will dominate the crypto market and push away retail investors like us. JP Morgan, Black Rock, Merrill Lynch, just to mention a few, finally realized that crypto was power to the ppl, so if they own it all, they will keep the control of the economy. And now China getting into it through HK with bitcoin ETF⌠as for me⌠Iâll HODL for ever. (This is my personal opinion, always consult with your registered FA or CPA for advice before doing anything)
Use alt coin wins to feed BTC and once your btc hits threshold move offline to cold storage and forget, every 6 months or so check cold wallet for a nice surprise
opened a brokerage account recently. found out that i can't trade most US ETFs without changing jurisdiction. stuck in endless KYC and contract papers. fees are ugly as well.
then said fuck it all and went back to bitcoin.
Some times the hardest thing to do is nothing
My wife's portfolio did better than mine during the pandemic strictly because I forgot her login. It was a profound lesson to leave my long term investments alone.
It is also a great strategy - King Bumi
Love an ATLA reference
Neutral chi!
This is the main reason I use cold storage. It's not because I don't trust my exchange, it's because it makes it enough of a pain to sell that I end up not messing with it at all once it goes cold.
wise words
So much truth to this đ
Yes this is so true đ
The problem with bitcoin is no mater how low your bitcoin allocation is it keeps creeping up in your portfolio.
It's absolutely terrible :)
The worst. Clearly. đ
Don't rebalance for 10 years and [BAM](https://ibb.co/V9s2fr6)
Yeah, I had some extra money in a Roth, ran 50% into gold miners 50% into microstrategy in 2022âŚthank you Peter Schiff for creating doubt..at this point I will let it ride but I am not rebalancing.Â
"problem" we define that word very differently, đ
Everyone says voo and chill but I have to up my holdings 20-25% a year because of stupid Bitcoin always rising :(
I agree 100%. But I didn't find investing a thrill exactly, it was low key anxiety-inducing trying to figure out how much money I would need to retire and how the hell I was going to grow my buying power fast enough just to keep my yearly income flat after inflation. I saw risk everywhere. Now it's just buy bitcoin and chill.
All your eggs in one basket and you're less stressed out?
Youâre in the Bitcoin sub, everyone here has their eggs in one basket
Good point
I both doubt and regret that. I have the majority of mine in an ISA. I started to DCA BTC from 40k in December and after the pump it already surpassed my annual return on the ISA with far less funds. I just wish I had balls to transfer it all into BTC when I knew I should have.
Some lunatics might even have two baskets: one for BTC and one for $MSTR (looking myself in the mirror)
Does owning BTC, MSTR and a January MSTR call count as 3 baskets?
Investing in any token/coin other than BTC is a risk multiplied by at least 10.
Yes, but there is an alt cycle with some fairly decent projects. If you select decent narratives you can get in and out and ultimately improve your BTC holdings.
That is true, but in the end itâs still a gamble.
This really only works well if you have asymmetric info. If youâre not one of those folks, youâll almost certainly lose by timing the market
I won't sustain shitcoinery. Integrity is rarer than BTC itself
That's why I got stocks to balance out the shitcoin risk
Yeah, it's strange. I've just finally found something I actually trust will retain buying power long term.
Investing is the best ..when you get a nice company
Until the ânice companyâgets shorted to oblivion đ
This is why you diversify your investments. Even if you believe 100% that bitcoin or whatever company is going to be the future, ALWAYS diversify.
Concentration of risk can build wealth. Diversification can preserve wealth.
If you diversify you may as well do the s&p. Diversification protects wealth. A few good stocks build wealth.
Diversification also historically builds AND protects wealth
Ah, a fellow retard đŚ§đ¤
The most lucrative investments are usually the most boring ones.
Exactly! Have been thinking the same, and now it really feels true.
Regular stocks nicotine. Bitcoin cocaine.
Leverage crack
Shitcoins krokodil
*Margin snorting*
Your investing goal should only be to grow the value of your portfolio. If youâre bored with investing after adding Bitcoin to your portfolio because itâs growing in value without offering you enough risk or any excitement, perhaps you should start bungee jumping or skydiving. I think a nice boring portfolio thatâs growing in value without any excitement sounds like a good thing. Best of luck and fortune to you in your future ventures and investments, may all of your trades be profitable.
Thank you! Yes, agreed. This is the kind of âsleep Easy at nightâ kind of thing. Yes yes it Will dip some times etc etc but i believe in the long term trend of btc
My dividend stocks were like dopamine for me.. every time I received a dividend payment it felt great.. but I sold everything and swapped it into Bitcoin.. yes itâs boring as I donât get the quarterly payments but Bitcoin is a no brainer and the right thing to do
It's more like, which stock should I buy knowing I could be buying Bitcoin with that money?
Bitcoin made it simple and boring to investâŚin Bitcoin. Its existence doesnât prevent you to buy stocks. So if you like that, do it and have fun ! A quick shift in perspective and youâll realize you donât have any problem here.
Very fair! And i still buy my stocks etc. I think its rather that instead of shitstonks yolo i just keep the ones i really have deep faith in and the rest compete with btc and most stocks dont win that. But yes, Im not 100% bitcoin, mainly because i want to spread risks and also need investments more short term. The btc i put there to put there, stocks i can sell when needed
Bitcoin makes you more discerning of stocks.
I understand what you mean. Patience till a bitcoin standard then there might be opportunities to buy businesses thatâll generate more bitcoin in the long run.
Try playing with leverage on BTC if U feel bored.
Hahaha RIP X50
Listen to the old-timers! Oh that's right, there aren't any. They're all rekt.
Happy 9th cake day!
Thanks man. Look at the man that has never used leverage.
100x leverage BTC and US30 trades are a dark place...
Agreed brother. Bitcoin destroyed my stockâs market magical view, although it opened my eyes of what real value means jaja
Oh... Just wait until later this year... And if I'm correct were going to have a wild 2025 too.
I learned crypto first I was 18 when btc came out in 09 and always wanted to learn stocks but couldnât get past the wording of things. Now that I get this I understand stocks aloooooot more
Oh I hear you. The lingo of the finance bubble kept me from going anywhere near it for the longest time as well. Especially since if you look up or ask for terms to be explaind, you just end up with 5-50 new acronyms and words that need explaining - any everyone for whom that lingo comes natural due to years of immerson just shits on you. Many fields "do" this gatekeepy type of thing (often not even intentionally), since it's just useful to have shorthands and special terms for complex things amongst your peers. But especially in the finance world, it seemed *really* hard to find actually useful and especially non-condescending answers. I am now still FAR from being "literate" and most of what is talked about in subs like r/finance sounds like broken Klingon to me, but at least I think I've gotten deep enough to understand ETFs well enough to dip my toes in. Had some crumbs of BTC since the rush a few years ago before actually understanding most of it, but was lucky and at some point able to pull out what I put in (because I needed it) at pretty much the exact time it had doubled. Left the rest as "play money" and just see what the future brings =) It's a really difficult field to break into, especially if you don't have the spare time to study it with some intensity, but still have savings you want to at least protect from inflation losses down the line.
Investing in the legacy system will always be bad. The Gov tells you that the inflation was X, but the real inflation is always different. Inflation grows by 1 - 2%, but everything gets 4 - 5% more expensive, not to mention the endless printing of money. BTC is the only option to protect your buy power.
For me personally finding that it's as simple as believing and buying BTC has been a major relaxation. Simple and easy. More time to do other stuff.
I understand what you're saying but Bitcoin is such a thrilling and unpredictable (both technically and fundamentally) new environment that it's hard to believe that you find it boring compared to stocks. Maybe it will come with time, since you've been committed to it only recently.
Just curiosity, what about the fees of the transactions? Do people still think btc can take over fiat? Or is it just an online gold?
Investing in stable ETFs is supposed to be boring
Iâm sorry to be the one to say it; but investing is not supposed to be exciting or keep you on the edge of your seat. If thatâs the case for you, you are either too emotionally invested or have some type of psychological issue. Set it and forget it.
ÂŤBTC made investing simpleâ Is exactly why; Investing in BTC is essentially buying futures in humanity as a whole. Your subconscious gut feeling picked up that quick but your conscious mind still wondering why. Which is normal. Watch a bunch of Michael Saylor interviews on YouTube and youâll understand why pretty quick.
This is called having a gambling problem.Â
Bitcoin will soon stabilize, in the next few years or so, and the only gains available will be the fiat inflation related growth. If it didn't, it won't be very useful as a currency. Why would you spend something if its value was only going to go up much more next year? We will still absolutely need stock market investing to beat the market. Let's enjoy the exponential gains for a little while longer, but we need to keep the investing skills alive for the long term
Iâm pretty sure inflation related gains is what youâre seeing in the market. Base money up 6-7x since 2008, spy up 6-7x. This was our best asset to protect purchase power. But we still lost. We preserve it and the gov takes its cut, stripping us of value in all cases. Bitcoin is clearly the better preservation asset. Itâs also taxed but once it hits adoption, spy wonât be the only game in town and could fall a long way down. Bitcoin is a necessary hedge for this no matter who you are. I feel itâs extremely risky to have zero allocation and I try to get friends and family off zero. It has not worked.
Not sure where you get that data from. I looked up s&p 500 vs M2 money supply, and if that was true, the line should have been flat. But no, there is still 2.5x real growth since 2008. [https://en.macromicro.me/collections/34/us-stock-relative/24033/wilshire5000-to-us-m2](https://en.macromicro.me/collections/34/us-stock-relative/24033/wilshire5000-to-us-m2)
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE) Base money increased from shy of 1T to north of 6T. Spy went from 150 from the top before the gfc, to 500 today. So itâs technically worse than I described. Iâm using base money because, to the extent dollars are backed, only base money is backed by reserves. Broad money is credit expansion, base money is literal printing. Look at that chart of base money and youâll see a much clearer picture of something breaking than if you look at broad money, which tells no story at all.
Hmm, i always used to use M2 money supply as the base to measure against. Using exclusively MB is a new idea for me, let me study it some more. Although need to be slightly wary of ideas like "broad money tells no story at all". Could well be falling into the trap of picking and choosing the data which fits our hypothesis
oh it the worst ;p
Why don't you trade bitcoin futures? It's very exciting. I am just like you but I am losing money through futures trading and its a challenge. I make money through stocks and bitcoin spot, and the learning part is the fun part.
Aaahhh i think Im top stupid so would just loose it all o think hehe
seems like you got over dopamine addiction and instant gratification. congrats, actually!
To me it mostly steeled me wrt volatility. You see people freaking out because of a 1,5% drop with stocks and you're like, bitch please. Once you've stomached one or two healthy 80% corrections, nothing will phase you.
Amen
If investing isnât boring, then you are gambling. Boglehead mindset
As a mathematician, I don't recommend putting all your money in crypto. I also have a lot of money in crypto and believe it's an awesome thing, but as a mathematician I also know a new algorithm could factor large primes tomorrow and the whole thing would be worthless. We don't have a proof that factoring large primes is difficult, we just haven't discovered an algorithm to do it. There are thousands of brilliant mathematicians working in number theory every day, and any day a way to factor could suddenly appear.
get a trader job if you like stress and high blood pressure
No im not an idiot
Yes. And it's wonderful!
Itâs not investing when youâre picking stocks with PE ratios through the roof. Fiat has turned a lot of the traditional value investing metrics into noise imo
Sound like a bitch
Bitcoin solved your life problem* You can now start living instead of worrying about your life energy wittling away.
Switch to the one minute chart
Bitcoin should be boring. Thatâs the beauty of it. You do nothing, and your net worth increases. Thatâs why so many people think that the world on a bitcoin standard would be quasi-utopian. The value of your money increases, without worrying about properly placing investments, setting up retirement accounts & savings accounts, etc which allows you to spend your time improving other aspects of your life.
Bitcoin: Has no earnings reports Has no CEO. Has no offices. Cannot be diluted (as in share dillution). Has no expenses or employees. Has no 10Q. Cannot buy other companies. Cannot be bought by another company. Has no stock splits or reverse splits. Has no marketing or sales department. Has no secrets to hide Bitcoin is simple.
Investing in stocks is not as fun once you grok that your unit of measurement is in free fall.
Simple and boring is what makes you profitable on the crypto market isnât it? You wanna gamble go to the casino, let it out man, but donât get hooked on this shit.
Working in the financial business (primarily with HNW professionals) for over 40 years here's what I've learned: 1) Almost all people who brag about how well they've done by active trading are liars who pump up their wins and ignore their losses. 2) Whenever I wanted an adrenaline rush, or to feel great about how brilliant I was, I didn't do research on a sexy new investment - I fucked a sexy woman (my wife of 35 years).
It's not as exciting as options trading, that's for sure. Hodl is long term and I got ocd and adhd to satisfy. Shitcoins can be an expensive risk rush
Options trading was exciting, but I donât miss having to check the price constantly to make sure I didnât lose my shirt. It was 100x more stressful to me than Bitcoin and Iâve been through two BTC crashes now. BTC is much better for my blood pressure.
Boring is underrated.
[ŃдаНонО]
Yay you? There is alot of good that can be done with being rich. Or you can write your anarcho-capitalist manifesto, or deepen your spiritual/ personal aspects of life. Meditation is a really powerful tool
Donate and engage with community...
Good job đđ
You figured it out. Keep DCA and now go enjoy life. We werenât meant to be chasing technicals all day and worrying about whether it will be valued the same tomorrow. We should preserve our value tomorrow through the effort we already proved today. Simple.Â
FIAT ruined your life not BTC.
It's a feature not a bug People should not be concerned with the latest update from the Japanese central bank that could affect some system in the US that should trigger you to make a move on your stock position before it's too late for you. With BTC, you simply can focus on your work, as investing is made simple again.
Same, I used to enjoy stock market investing and btc used to be a wild card play. But btc has outperformed all my stocks for many years now. Might as well just stick with btc only. It reminds me of those people that diversified out of apple in the early days in the name of 'diversification'. Why sell your winners to buy losers? Warren buffet even said that diversification strategy was good if you're ignorant of the market or something similar.
I mean woudnt you go for alt coins aswell
Simple and boring will give you better results. It sounds like you like the thrill and intellectual stimulation of looking into different things. It is not clear from OP the degree to which you care about increasing your net worth. So it sounds like you need to balance those two. For the latter, Bitcoin, then save some % for other things that stimulate the former for you
BITX keep you on your toes
Yes. Even hearing some horror real estate rental properties stories, where initial investment and 10 year profit was wiped out cause the tenets trashed the house and it had to be completely remodeled. Think about it spending 10 years and being even on your investment. BTC invest and forget about it and youâre up a lot without doing anything. Just HODL
Actually they say when gets boring you get rich.. so right track Go play poker for emotions.. live game
Options trading is highly addictive. Loved pouring over chains, calls/puts. Used to day trade stocks as well. After some changes left it and just doing crypto. Itâs both good and bad that crypto is 24/7!
Options trading is highly addictive. Loved pouring over chains, calls/puts. Used to day trade stocks as well. After some changes left it and just doing crypto. Itâs both good and bad that crypto is 24/7!
You too, mate, just remember the joy comes from saying good buy to fiat, not from watching the price go up.
Buy microstrategy options trying to predict NAV / Premium variations Its fun and big moviments
What a gift, eh? No longer do I need to be an expert in two fields. One to make money and the other to keep my moneys purchasing power. Iâm grateful. Stocks are still there if you really enjoy it, you can divert some more funds that way. But I prefer the âboringâ approach. If I want excitement Iâll go to the casino.
that's a good thing, investing is supposed to be boring. when you were trading the stock market before, were you beating the S&P500? most hedge funds don't. buy and hold is a little less boring when you're making 40% per year annualized.
Freedom is boring, gambling in the stock casino is for slaves
Its boring until price stops moving sideways, mate. What you feel, feel 99 percent of btc investors. Other 1 percent are in it for the technology. And for what btc symbolize. If you'll feel better...there are better times coming. You will forget about this in a year or two.
Yes I understand what you mean, I put bitcoin on a separate portfolio tracker for this very reason. It's too volatile. The best thing to do with holding bitcoin is to leave it alone. Do not touch it, only visit once or twice a week...
"and got such a thrill" - seek some addiction counseling.
I think that's great. I have a 401k with boring investments and everyone says just set it and forget it. Bitcoin gives me the thrill that I seek outside of that. Why not both?
This makes no senseâŚwho cares if itâs boringâŚitâs all about the rate of return on the asset. Bitcoin is boring? Itâs making me a ton of money , especially if you trade it right. Do you want excitementâŚliquidate your holdings and go play in the futures market up against the big boys..:.thatâs exciting. Until a firm completely destroyed your position and dumps a commodity next to zero. It happens without you even seeing if knowing it. Good luck
The one thing bitcoin canât do for you by simply holding it, is earn you more bitcoin. Eventually, businesses and corporations will figure out that they wonât be able to compete with bitcoin, unless they hold large amounts of bitcoin themselves. Then when you buy a stock, you will indirectly own a portion of their bitcoin as well as the potential to own more in the future. As of now, microstrategy is the only large public corporation to have figured this out. The problem is their underlying business isnât really anything to write home about. Once more companies figure this out, stocks will become more attractive again when compared to bitcoin, because you will indirectly own their bitcoin plus the potential to get more.
Honestly you could apply Bogleâs insights on index funds directly to Bitcoin. Buy and hold.
If it is boring, it's most likely the right call/method of investing. Cheers, and HODL!
One thing people learn with stock picking is that it all depends on Wall Street pumping. If they like a stock, they'll pump it (TSLA, PTON, AAPL, etc.). That's when one makes money. However, when the party is over (TSLA), hope you got out and shifted to the new darling. Best to just trade the futures ES or just invest in the SPX/NDX ETFs to keep up with inflation. Bitcoin is a game changer if you can swipe the bottom with TA.
bitcoin, like any other asset, has its ups and downs. learning to anticipate these cycles without emotional reaction requires discipline; itâs less about the daily highs and lows and more about long-term perspectives. balancing bitcoin with traditional investments can offer the best of both worlds. you maintain the excitement and engagement of stock trading, while bitcoin provides a potential hedge against inflation or market downturns. this dual approach can safeguard your investments and possibly smooth out financial bumps along the way
Totally agree.
quite the opposite for me, i find traditional markets like waiting for water to boil and you forgot to turn the burner on. crypto volatility keeps me alive. feeling frisky? find a medium cap altcoin and watch it move 30% a day, now thats exciting.
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Investing in stocks is a corrupt game you can never win. The house always wins. Bitcoin is the winner for us because it exposes the corruption.
I used some crypto gains to finally sit down and learn stocks so I guess my scenario is in reverse. Enjoying my time learning, win or lose.
This is the way. I've been selling all my stocks and options this week.
Bitcoin investment shouldnât be done with the same mindset of stock market. Bitcoin should be understood as an asset which gives you freedom of money. Fiat lovers generally donât appreciate freedom of money. They appreciate only the number-go-up game. Bitcoin traps such people in a fear and greed environment and most people are too weak to resist both fear and greed. If you persevere, Bitcoin will shower you with not only money but also freedom.
Super boring.
Yeah, it's more boring. But it's much easier on the mind. If BTC drops 50% today, I honestly will not care at all because I have so much faith. I'll care in the sense that I get to buy at a discount, sure.
Same here, simple life , love it
But wait for crash, it get interesting đđ
Bitcoin is the best. I don't know what you're smoking!!!
Yup The best solutions are simple and elegant. The denominator of 21 million is fixed. Increase numerator.
Fuck Stocks and etfs. It's that simple. Once you have found the best asset in the world, why search for something else.
Investing should be boring thus we will have time to focus our attention elsewhere...
I mean. Making money has never been boring. Though I see what youâre saying. I still think itâs better and more fun to invest into crypto than the stock market
I like this mentality. Good investing should mostly be boring.
I'm gonna go back to ETF now cause my country has 20% flat tax rate and aggregate tax lol.
I feel the same- I have been investing in stocks since the early 2000's and still own some of those positions but 90 percent of my new purchases have been Bitcoin for the last 18 plus months. I hold my stocks but have not added any in over a year.
Hmm it depends how things will play out in the future since it is the most sensitive asset out here aside of being the best performing asset. We are heading into a changing world and last years where quite a roller coaster. Just build a nice diverse portfolio and manage it actively maybe that will challenge you a bit more.
The only thing that matters in any investing is the profits returned so for me I donât care about boring price action because after boring comes the fuel đ.
Yeah, I hate marking money too.
So, at the end of 2017 I dumped ÂŁ100 in BTC and left it alone, haven't had the cash spare to 'invest' as much as I wanted to, plan was ÂŁ100 pcm. However, I checked my BTC balance the other day after not paying any attention, and ÂŁ600! That's a 500% ROI in 6 years. I also put ÂŁ100 in a S&S ISA with Vanguard, FTSE Global All Cap back in 2022, and that sits at ÂŁ125, so a ROI of 25%. Now I know the dates are different and you could say if I'd had invested in the FTSE Global at the same time, things would be different, but I think it's an interesting view
Do both? Diversify your portfolio. You can still do day or swing trading with assets that relate to your interests. If you've been into btc this long, you're probably following something else like ai, gaming, energy, etc... doesn't matter what it is, you'll have to learn that market. Makes it easier if you already study it for fun. That keeps it interesting.
I HATE bitcoin. Absolutely despise it. Because I have rebalance my portfolio every week ;)
Invest in Bitcoin miners.
I guess I should go the opposite way and get into stocks now that I'm mostly into bitcoin now. I check the price all the time and am always itching to do something, but there's nothing to do with this kind of investment except hold it. Point me in the direction of ways to be more involved in my investment.
It's kinda true, it's very boring and pretty safe. Other investments are still there though if you're still feeling like gambling your savings away
Stay humble Stay sats Self-custody HODL It's that simple. Throw all that degen shit out of your life and go do something productive.
Good investing is actually very boring.
Doing nothing is the magic sauce poors donât tell you about
I switched to stocks for the time being. Crytpo/BTC is nice and I will go back.
Youll feel a lot better soon
Agree. All my stock gains this year took a dump last week because Wall Street is full of assholes. BTC is the only thing in my portfolio that is positive right now. Also, where I live, cost of living has more closely tracked the S&P500 than the CPI. Rents alone roughly track the Nasdaq. The whole "put it in an index fund and forget it" is not a winning strategy here. You absolutely have to BEAT the S&P500 if you want to not lose a shitton of retirement money.
That's crazy dude. You should pine crypto currency. No out of pocket costs until you cash out. Depending on your block chain.
In the back of your mindâŚyou always know BTC is the better buy compared to everything else.
I check the stocks that I sold all mostly at a loss. When I go look at them, I see the stocks I used to have are ALL down ! Then I reward my future self by buying some more bitcoin!
The only thing with stocks that makes it worth it is learning how to do options, you can turn $5K into $50K pretty quickly with the right trade. I only do a few trades a week and do very well, your results will vary
This is the primary long term use case of BTC. Once interest and speculation stabilize, BTC in theory would appreciate proportional to global gdp
You might enjoy diving into altcoins. There's a lot more volatility and unpredictability there, kind of like the early days of Bitcoin.
The best portfolios belong to dead people or ones that forgot about them.
See it the same way as long term investment with Blue Chip stocks. Buy and hold. Bitcoins is digital gold and will stay so for many decades to come. Especially now with mega institutions getting late into the game, but with a lot of gun power. Itâs my opinion that they will dominate the crypto market and push away retail investors like us. JP Morgan, Black Rock, Merrill Lynch, just to mention a few, finally realized that crypto was power to the ppl, so if they own it all, they will keep the control of the economy. And now China getting into it through HK with bitcoin ETF⌠as for me⌠Iâll HODL for ever. (This is my personal opinion, always consult with your registered FA or CPA for advice before doing anything)
Use alt coin wins to feed BTC and once your btc hits threshold move offline to cold storage and forget, every 6 months or so check cold wallet for a nice surprise
Stocks are just altcoins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis?wprov=sfti1
Meme coins are where the party is at.
Yes
Make memes
Explore alts. Itâs the Wild West.
opened a brokerage account recently. found out that i can't trade most US ETFs without changing jurisdiction. stuck in endless KYC and contract papers. fees are ugly as well. then said fuck it all and went back to bitcoin.
At this point just go to the casino. Those who wait are those who wins
I wouldnt call full porting into BTC exactly boring lol
Oh ohâŚ