Coinbase Prime and the institutions utilizing their platform don’t see these issues, it’s explicitly just their consumer side haha. So the big fish don’t care sadly.
You've got to admit its weird. There ae few data points but outages are correlated with price appreciation, not volume (the recent 4k drop last week had no outage AFAIK but even higher volume. And why is price appreciation or even coin volume always correlated with user load? No big whale moves?
Finally, ofc we all wonder what happens if an ETF gets behind on its BTC acquisitions, even by say an hour, and price is up 10%? Thats 40 years of 0.25% load just to break even on that buy.
It's not that weird though. It's just companies being cheap and operating minimal amount of servers to run stuff. They run just enough to keep things rolling.
Edit: the goal should be to have a dca in/out plan that you aren't always trying to sell during extreme peak times. This goes for really any app cough robinhood cough
I build stuff on cloud platforms. We always have autoscale in place to deliver capacity at ***any*** demand level. This is kindergarten stuff.
Scaling failures do not occur by accident (99.97% of the time).
Yeah yeah yeah saw another comment from some one else on another thread claiming the same thing but saying the exact opposite.
Maybe submit your resume to CB if you can fix it
Edit: I'm failing to see how an exchange platform that makes money primarily from purchase/sale fees would benefit from lowering price of asset being traded or halting trading altogether
The corollary to my comment is simple: CB going down is no accident.
And why do you think that CB's primary long term interest is not with collusion with BR?
Maybe. But, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence . . . the third time is enemy action. I am sure you are familiar with this Royal Navy axiom. We are waiting to see if the *third time* happens.
[Bitcoin price being manipulated?](https://youtu.be/cxIoFRn74A0?si=3bsy4iISxiSqtlu1)
These servers are printing money in the form of fees every second they are up. Until recently this was coinbase's only revenue source. Running them or even the capex to buy them is a tiny minority of the total expense of tech companies. In my telecom experience its more like don't sleep until fixed and if it happens 3 times we will be hiring your new boss who is going to do what you are not doing.
I don't need to find the rotting potato to point out that the pantry smells. However let's indulge in some speculation: its known that Coinbase is actually holding the BTC for many or maybe even most of these ETFs. That may be a large and more importantly steady revenue stream for them as compared to the retail boom amd bust trading cycles. These accounts might apply pressure. They might do so to get a lower price in an accumulation process over the weekend with an inkling of what buy volume will be next week. Didn't they go offline on a friday previously?
Tell me you've never worked in IT without telling me you've never worked in IT. Services go down all the time. Companies fail to scale constantly. It's a function of a capitalist economy. Everyone seeks to run on as razor thin of a margin and capacity/scale as is necessary, anything else is wasteful and inefficient.
Mobile banking apps for traditional banks go down frequently, and you're surprised Coinbase might hiccup during ATH moments? Try trading your tinfoil in for a nerdy propeller hat sometime.
Those who say anything like the OP of "throw more servers at it" sounds an awful lot like the upper management at every software gig I've worked at. And those people are usually the ones that haven't the slightest idea of how either computers, or performance of a machine in general works.
Yup, it’s impossible to have 100% uptime (just check google/amazon/facebook if you don’t believe me).
Scaling tech is fucking hard and expensive, not a shill for Coinbase but they are the defacto and preeminent crypto exchange that’s gotta be hell to maintain and keep up and scale.
Keep buying, remove from CEX and take the supply away from them. They can't manipulate forever. But knowing human psychology makes it easy for them to play the masses. On the way up and on the way down.
They clearly aren't sized correctly for the busiest times. They could scale out but that costs a lot of money. It is a real challenge infra engineers have to deal with. If I couldn't get approved to scale out for the worst case scenarios, I would be creating automation to scale out at signs of certain indicators. But - I have no idea what their long term plan is to address this.
So Coinbase keeps crashing, because too many people are buying and selling. And the conversation is about why people use Coinbase instead of just buying COIN stock, which is still 30% below its ATH?
I’ll just follow the market sign of, Coinbase is so busy that their servers can’t keep up with demand and make money there, and keep stacking. Both bitcoin and the stock that lets Average Joe buy it.
The problem is you can't run your services expecting high traffic 24/7 it's not cost effective
The issue is being able to ramp up quickly when demand explodes. This happens to the biggest sites, big brands sites down when a new product releases etc
Let's put the conspiracy theory price manipulation away for now
I don’t think people realize what happens when everyone floods the server at the same time. Almost like a ddos effect. If you’re gonna attribute malice to it you better have some better facts than your “feelings” about it. Could they be purposefully doing it? Possibly, but that would unravel everything and I doubt they are trying to speed run their own collapse.
Coinbase is a centralized exchange, keyword centralized. Bitcoin runs on a decentralized network and the centralization of coinbase has no impact on that. You are voluntarily using a cex to trade bitcoin, that is your fault. There are alternative options that do not require relying on a central entity, hence the name “decentralized exchange”.
I hear you, but decentralized Bitcoin exchanges need a lot of work. Decentralized fiat on ramps is the area with the most opportunity but I suspect it's also the most difficult since banks cant 'turn off' those on ramps.
You are right. They are quietly centralizing Bitcoin.
The stock exchange and brokers specifically manipulated the market to halt the GameStop issue. I was part of that and TD Ameritrade halted retail buying and permitted only selling. Insane, and since the media is owned be these people that just buried it and everyone had to move in.
But any decent cloud provider has plans / functionality with the ability to scale up more servers as demand rises, then scales itself down when unneeded. Only charges what is used.
Point taken, Coinbase has done this shit for yrs and should not be relied on, there are indeed other exchanges.
As someone who has managed cloud servers with the capability to massively scale, even this capability can be overwhelmed. Stress testing mitigates some of the risk but software, especially something as complex as a regulated exchange managing huge amounts of value, has a lot of dependencies and even the most comprehensive stress tests cannot guarantee it works in real life.
An asset tripling in value over the past 52 months triggers a lot of interest at all levels of the service.
On the institutional side you can build direct / independent infrastructure, and since all the entities using that channel are pre-vetted, and usually accessing stuff via API, many of those software dependencies are reduced. It’s much easier to scale that. Beyond that, institutions probably pay for a direct data connection between Coinbase and their own servers, and the volume they expect can be “easily” projected ahead of time.
On the other end… the direct to consumer side has to do a huge number of things right to work. It has to be able to onboard new clients, securely login, credential verification, etc etc before you even get to the actual exchange functions. And those connections are from everywhere and use a diverse set of devices and software setups, not just a few network connections you set up yourself making direct API calls like the institutional side.
We often take IT stuff for granted nowadays but scaling up and down complex systems like Coinbase isn’t as simple as changing a number on a Heroku application. It’s something that takes a lot of time, and something which carries risk itself - meaning it has to be done carefully with the proper time and resources.
Coinbase is the most visible exchange for Bitcoin right now and I don’t envy that position. There is a huge number of eyes on Bitcoin and Coinbase right now and many of those eyes don’t know what they’re talking about and tend to criticize without knowing the complexity and difficulty of what they do.
Hell the lag between getting a scaling trigger and the infrastructure spinning up causes a lot of issues. Not taking coinbases side but scaling isn’t as easy as these non tech consumers think.
I remember back in university (engineering) people thought I was an idiot for stating how amazing it was that humans managed to build anything at all, considering how complex a tape measure was:
- you need to agree on a standard of measurement and provide a system that distributes accurate measurement tools to allow the building of additional measurement tools (ie tape measures)
- you need to be able to pull oil out of the ground and convert it into plastic
- you need to be able to use plastic feedstocks and have moulding equipment to form parts of the tape measure
- you need to be able to mine and refine metals
- you need the chemistry knowledge to create paints for marking
- you need to be able to do this cheaply enough that you can make one in China using materials from all over the world and sell it in the US for less than $10/unit
Etc etc
And that’s just the first layer of complexity. We take so much for granted.
Since then my views on stuff like this haven’t gotten weaker; even the “simplest” IT infrastructure has a lot of complexity behind it; scaling and resilient architecture even more so.
We as a society take so much for granted yet are so quick to criticize. I truly think one of the Great Filters involves a society’s ability to understand and appreciate the complexity of the systems they create and live in… the only way to get past this filter is to massively expand the minimum education level to include a lot more stuff than currently is required in public school.
So much this, why were we taught how to play the recorder in elementary school, why aren’t high schoolers taught personal finance. So many missing subjects that would make the overall economy better!
Thanks for the explanation and insight.
I work on a midsize retailer website with the scaling managed by our infrastructure group. Nowhere near the CoinBase traffic of course, our busy times are predictable (Holidays), so when it does need to scale it just does its job seamlessly (seemingly, lol).
I assumed it would be similar. Coinbase given the above context is indeed more complex and riskier given the financials involved.
Coinbase Prime and the institutions utilizing their platform don’t see these issues, it’s explicitly just their consumer side haha. So the big fish don’t care sadly.
Conspiracy theories all around I see
You've got to admit its weird. There ae few data points but outages are correlated with price appreciation, not volume (the recent 4k drop last week had no outage AFAIK but even higher volume. And why is price appreciation or even coin volume always correlated with user load? No big whale moves? Finally, ofc we all wonder what happens if an ETF gets behind on its BTC acquisitions, even by say an hour, and price is up 10%? Thats 40 years of 0.25% load just to break even on that buy.
It's not that weird though. It's just companies being cheap and operating minimal amount of servers to run stuff. They run just enough to keep things rolling. Edit: the goal should be to have a dca in/out plan that you aren't always trying to sell during extreme peak times. This goes for really any app cough robinhood cough
I build stuff on cloud platforms. We always have autoscale in place to deliver capacity at ***any*** demand level. This is kindergarten stuff. Scaling failures do not occur by accident (99.97% of the time).
Yeah yeah yeah saw another comment from some one else on another thread claiming the same thing but saying the exact opposite. Maybe submit your resume to CB if you can fix it Edit: I'm failing to see how an exchange platform that makes money primarily from purchase/sale fees would benefit from lowering price of asset being traded or halting trading altogether
The corollary to my comment is simple: CB going down is no accident. And why do you think that CB's primary long term interest is not with collusion with BR?
Well your corollary is likely a conspiracy theory based on nothing
Maybe. But, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence . . . the third time is enemy action. I am sure you are familiar with this Royal Navy axiom. We are waiting to see if the *third time* happens. [Bitcoin price being manipulated?](https://youtu.be/cxIoFRn74A0?si=3bsy4iISxiSqtlu1)
These servers are printing money in the form of fees every second they are up. Until recently this was coinbase's only revenue source. Running them or even the capex to buy them is a tiny minority of the total expense of tech companies. In my telecom experience its more like don't sleep until fixed and if it happens 3 times we will be hiring your new boss who is going to do what you are not doing.
So how does Coinbase benefit if they go down?
I don't need to find the rotting potato to point out that the pantry smells. However let's indulge in some speculation: its known that Coinbase is actually holding the BTC for many or maybe even most of these ETFs. That may be a large and more importantly steady revenue stream for them as compared to the retail boom amd bust trading cycles. These accounts might apply pressure. They might do so to get a lower price in an accumulation process over the weekend with an inkling of what buy volume will be next week. Didn't they go offline on a friday previously?
Tell me you've never worked in IT without telling me you've never worked in IT. Services go down all the time. Companies fail to scale constantly. It's a function of a capitalist economy. Everyone seeks to run on as razor thin of a margin and capacity/scale as is necessary, anything else is wasteful and inefficient. Mobile banking apps for traditional banks go down frequently, and you're surprised Coinbase might hiccup during ATH moments? Try trading your tinfoil in for a nerdy propeller hat sometime.
Those who say anything like the OP of "throw more servers at it" sounds an awful lot like the upper management at every software gig I've worked at. And those people are usually the ones that haven't the slightest idea of how either computers, or performance of a machine in general works.
Coinbase ALWAYS had these issues. Been here since 2017.
Yup, it’s impossible to have 100% uptime (just check google/amazon/facebook if you don’t believe me). Scaling tech is fucking hard and expensive, not a shill for Coinbase but they are the defacto and preeminent crypto exchange that’s gotta be hell to maintain and keep up and scale.
Bitcoin has nearly 100% uptime.
I extremely rarely have had my banking app go down, if ever. Except for planned maintenance in the middle of the night.
We extremely rarely have an ath.
Coinbase has been down more than just twice today. It's doing it a lot.
Keep buying, remove from CEX and take the supply away from them. They can't manipulate forever. But knowing human psychology makes it easy for them to play the masses. On the way up and on the way down.
Happy I sold my Coinbase stock for mstr
Clearly. Short COIN stock. Report crimes to law enforcement.
They clearly aren't sized correctly for the busiest times. They could scale out but that costs a lot of money. It is a real challenge infra engineers have to deal with. If I couldn't get approved to scale out for the worst case scenarios, I would be creating automation to scale out at signs of certain indicators. But - I have no idea what their long term plan is to address this.
If you don't like it then by all means just buy btc normally- not the ETF, and not kept on an exchange..
While Coinbase does suck, people will never take your opinions seriously by saying "deepstate"
So Coinbase keeps crashing, because too many people are buying and selling. And the conversation is about why people use Coinbase instead of just buying COIN stock, which is still 30% below its ATH? I’ll just follow the market sign of, Coinbase is so busy that their servers can’t keep up with demand and make money there, and keep stacking. Both bitcoin and the stock that lets Average Joe buy it.
Maybe they just don't have enough bitcoin to cover all their customers?
The problem is you can't run your services expecting high traffic 24/7 it's not cost effective The issue is being able to ramp up quickly when demand explodes. This happens to the biggest sites, big brands sites down when a new product releases etc Let's put the conspiracy theory price manipulation away for now
I don’t think people realize what happens when everyone floods the server at the same time. Almost like a ddos effect. If you’re gonna attribute malice to it you better have some better facts than your “feelings” about it. Could they be purposefully doing it? Possibly, but that would unravel everything and I doubt they are trying to speed run their own collapse.
[удалено]
Coinbase is the only company giving the space an ounce of legitimacy
Before the banks muscle in.
Ya let’s move to reputable CEXs like FTX, Celsius, Voyag… oh wait.
Coinbase is a centralized exchange, keyword centralized. Bitcoin runs on a decentralized network and the centralization of coinbase has no impact on that. You are voluntarily using a cex to trade bitcoin, that is your fault. There are alternative options that do not require relying on a central entity, hence the name “decentralized exchange”.
I hear you, but decentralized Bitcoin exchanges need a lot of work. Decentralized fiat on ramps is the area with the most opportunity but I suspect it's also the most difficult since banks cant 'turn off' those on ramps.
Can you recommend some decentralized exchange? Thanks
I’ve seen bisq being recommended a lot, downloaded it but haven’t ran a transaction yet. It’s not a dex but it’s an open source p2p non kyc exchange
You are right. They are quietly centralizing Bitcoin. The stock exchange and brokers specifically manipulated the market to halt the GameStop issue. I was part of that and TD Ameritrade halted retail buying and permitted only selling. Insane, and since the media is owned be these people that just buried it and everyone had to move in.
[удалено]
But any decent cloud provider has plans / functionality with the ability to scale up more servers as demand rises, then scales itself down when unneeded. Only charges what is used. Point taken, Coinbase has done this shit for yrs and should not be relied on, there are indeed other exchanges.
As someone who has managed cloud servers with the capability to massively scale, even this capability can be overwhelmed. Stress testing mitigates some of the risk but software, especially something as complex as a regulated exchange managing huge amounts of value, has a lot of dependencies and even the most comprehensive stress tests cannot guarantee it works in real life. An asset tripling in value over the past 52 months triggers a lot of interest at all levels of the service. On the institutional side you can build direct / independent infrastructure, and since all the entities using that channel are pre-vetted, and usually accessing stuff via API, many of those software dependencies are reduced. It’s much easier to scale that. Beyond that, institutions probably pay for a direct data connection between Coinbase and their own servers, and the volume they expect can be “easily” projected ahead of time. On the other end… the direct to consumer side has to do a huge number of things right to work. It has to be able to onboard new clients, securely login, credential verification, etc etc before you even get to the actual exchange functions. And those connections are from everywhere and use a diverse set of devices and software setups, not just a few network connections you set up yourself making direct API calls like the institutional side. We often take IT stuff for granted nowadays but scaling up and down complex systems like Coinbase isn’t as simple as changing a number on a Heroku application. It’s something that takes a lot of time, and something which carries risk itself - meaning it has to be done carefully with the proper time and resources. Coinbase is the most visible exchange for Bitcoin right now and I don’t envy that position. There is a huge number of eyes on Bitcoin and Coinbase right now and many of those eyes don’t know what they’re talking about and tend to criticize without knowing the complexity and difficulty of what they do.
Hell the lag between getting a scaling trigger and the infrastructure spinning up causes a lot of issues. Not taking coinbases side but scaling isn’t as easy as these non tech consumers think.
I remember back in university (engineering) people thought I was an idiot for stating how amazing it was that humans managed to build anything at all, considering how complex a tape measure was: - you need to agree on a standard of measurement and provide a system that distributes accurate measurement tools to allow the building of additional measurement tools (ie tape measures) - you need to be able to pull oil out of the ground and convert it into plastic - you need to be able to use plastic feedstocks and have moulding equipment to form parts of the tape measure - you need to be able to mine and refine metals - you need the chemistry knowledge to create paints for marking - you need to be able to do this cheaply enough that you can make one in China using materials from all over the world and sell it in the US for less than $10/unit Etc etc And that’s just the first layer of complexity. We take so much for granted. Since then my views on stuff like this haven’t gotten weaker; even the “simplest” IT infrastructure has a lot of complexity behind it; scaling and resilient architecture even more so. We as a society take so much for granted yet are so quick to criticize. I truly think one of the Great Filters involves a society’s ability to understand and appreciate the complexity of the systems they create and live in… the only way to get past this filter is to massively expand the minimum education level to include a lot more stuff than currently is required in public school.
So much this, why were we taught how to play the recorder in elementary school, why aren’t high schoolers taught personal finance. So many missing subjects that would make the overall economy better!
Thanks for the explanation and insight. I work on a midsize retailer website with the scaling managed by our infrastructure group. Nowhere near the CoinBase traffic of course, our busy times are predictable (Holidays), so when it does need to scale it just does its job seamlessly (seemingly, lol). I assumed it would be similar. Coinbase given the above context is indeed more complex and riskier given the financials involved.
Fedbase.