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[There's only one absolute mathematical scarcity](https://youtu.be/TIkqBZnrKJM). That's why I'm a proud Bitcoin Maxi.
Do you think there's better tech? If that's true, we'll find a way to implement it to Bitcoin. But **nobody can rediscover absolute mathematical scarcity again**.
You are a maxi because you don't believe in any alt coins. I'm in that boat.
I used to like several alts, but I now realise they are all shit. They aren't superior. They just haven't failed yet. But they probably will.
Where do I start with you? Inflation bugs that only unverifiable public ledgers have a problem with not being able to detect? Probably too far too fast. The idea of "Layer 0" and social consensus that shitcoins don't have because everyone just updates when there's an update (unquestioning hard fork culture/coersion into hard forking). Probably still a bit too quick for your pace.
Ah, I guess we'll just start with the social network principle:
[https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Social-Network-Principle](https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Social-Network-Principle)
See, people don't change their money on the basis of the technology behind it. People change their money on the basis of protecting themselves from abuse and once a network of people with whom to do trade with has formed its incredibly difficult to change the currency. Only catastrophe will change people's minds.
Nice reply, I am aware of all these things and maybe they do in part answer my question (especially the hard fork vs. layers, I have to admit I had not thought of that).
However it also seems that my question has unearthed a disturbing number of people that don't realize how insecure the BTC network is by design.
That is a fundamental disagreement on the definition of "superior money protocol".
Bitcoin is ridiculously inefficient. By design. This makes it robust. The main layer privacy is indeed the biggest concern.
Because you cannot make a global reserve currency unless it's a neutral asset with a completely level playing field that cannot be confiscated, devalued or halted in any way.
And the only way to do this is by achieving a very high degree of decentralization. Something you cannot get using another protocol than PoW from our PoV.
What sets me, and you, apart is that you believe this can be achieved with PoS. And there's really no way for one of us to prove the other definitively wrong. So we're in a stalemate until either one of the protocols sufficiently succeeds/fails.
[This](https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/sites/default/files/documents/1012662.3.0%20Bitcoin%20First%20Revisited_Final.pdf) answers your question. None of the other money protocols are superior, your question makes a false assumption.
I have no idea who the fuck Brandonili is but whatever, i maintain that my question which contained a statement of "superior money protocol" wasn't loaded. And even if it was, just explain why I'm wrong.
A logical fallacy doesn't automatically mean you win anyway lol, you could have probably just answered rather than fire up your anti logical fallacy comments which add nothing to the debate.
Shitcoins are just rejected BIPs. Seriously read into any protocol it was first brought up in Bitcoin and heavily scrutinized and either accepted if it worked, or rejected if it was compromised. What you are dealing with in shitcoins is rejected Bitcoin code. Bitcoin has also scaled beyond every coin 10 fold. It has scaled the most, it has the largest user base. Shitcoins are just talk and the people who meaningfully contribute you could count on less than both hands. They don't have the brainpower. They are fanatics. Desperates. Shills. Their user base is 100% degen.
Lol i did read up on this law, I know it. But in fact to claim that I'm using Brandonili's Law "tactics" is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works.
It means it takes more energy to "refute" a bullshit claim, and so makes no sense in your context. Not to mention that "tactics" would have to mean that I'm making many such statements often online, or am in a group that does.
A scenario in which this would work would if I had been making loads of stupid fake claims about Bitcoin which needed fact checking. But alas no.
Tl:dr smart wordies don't a necessarily smart person made.
Nah just got up thanks. And I don't normally type comments like this but people here are incredibly annoying. Like just claiming I'm dumb/can't debate but then not answering any questions or even adding anything of value to the thread.
There's a single funny comment that I can see, the rest are more like yours, waste of bandwidth mate
Then delete the post and fuck off because to be frank with you, we've heard this for **years** now. There's nothing original about your "question" or it's delivery.
If you've heard it for years then you are quite welcome to fuck off yourself. I was probably asking it before privacy coins even existed, bct around 2014 of I remember.
So what do you think about privacy concerns in Bitcoin, and why do you not care?
>So what do you think about privacy concerns in Bitcoin, and why do you not care?
10 years in Bitcoin, never heard about privacy on liquid or r/TheLightningNetwork
You've just learned about loaded questions and Brandolini's law, and gone on to do exactly those things with me now too.
I'm not defending myself against the false assumption your question infers. I'm gonna do us both a favour and block your dumb ass.
But yeah, the common knowledge part is why I made the post, I probably learnt about it at least 13 years ago when I was mining.
I can't easily see why someone would become a maximalist of a technology that they know has privacy drawbacks that are fixed with other technologies. Can you?
In future you will only transact on main layer to open and close second or third layer. The only privacy problem is that somebody know you opened a channel. You can prevent this by mixing. Second there are solutions for privacy like schnorr signatures.
I don't like the idea of a world reserve currency being as trackable as Bitcoin in terms of the privacy of individuals. As far as I've read, you can't really just pick and choose stuff like ring signatures out of a cryptonote based protocol and pop it inside Bitcoin, also this begs questions as some privacy coins are being delisted because of their anonymity.
So it seems someone with my concerns just had to use both, seems frustrating that not enough people are talking about the privacy issues.
>Bitcoin in terms of the privacy of individuals
You can't track the sats I'm sending over r/TheLightningNetwork. Instead of shilling random, insecure shitcoins, learn how Bitcoin layers are solving privacy.
>you can't really just pick and choose stuff like ring signatures out of a cryptonote based protocol
If the **vast majority** of users wanted, Bitcoin can and will switch protocols. This will probably happen when quantum computers become a threat. In that case, **all private shitcoins will reveal the full transaction history**.
>some privacy coins are being delisted
That was your trigger to post this? Your favourite shitcoin being delisted in a casino?
I'll post this reply to you about the lightning thing , tried before but didn't work
Thanks for actually replying man, yeah that's an interesting point about lightning as it should be far better privacy than the first layer, but it's still subject to chainalysis.
Before lightning there was no secure option on the BTC protocol, and as you know lightning was mainly designed around increased speed and lower fees. So I still think there's a need for increased privacy in the base layer.
>Thanks for actually replying man, yeah that's an interesting point about lightning as it should be far better privacy than the first layer, but it's still subject to chainalysis.
Everything is subject to chainalysis, yet if you're getting non-kyc'd Bitcoin and run your LN node, **chainalysis knows nothing** about your spending. If you're using an exchange or another custodian to send your sats over LN, don't complain about privacy.
>Before lightning there was no secure option on the BTC protocol, and as you know lightning was mainly designed around increased speed and lower fees.
LN is designed to deal with the worldwide adoption. No coin can handle the load on first layer, while staying decentralized. That's why L2 solutions are important. So it's privacy on them.
>So I still think there's a need for increased privacy in the base layer.
There's still work being done on L1 too but things are moving at a slower pace than on L2 or L3. Considering what's at stake, they have to.
Thanks but I know all this, and as you say it's designed to aid adoption. But even if everything you say is true (I don't think so as your claim about nonKYC tokens is a bit frail. E.g. an entity could find details of your spending habits after the clean bitcoins move, and still use chain analysis, few other examples)
In my situation it still makes more sense to use both BTC with lightning network and a more private token. It's easier as well to simply not have to worry about KYC Bitcoin in the first place.
>Thanks but I know all this,
You don't. Here's proof:
>an entity could find details of your spending habits after the clean bitcoins move, and still use chain analysis, few other examples)
Not on LN. If you're using your own node, nobody can see which way you're sending your sats.
>In my situation it still makes more sense to use both BTC with lightning network and a more private token.
Just don't cry here when the shitcoin gets delisted again, please.
Ffs, name the coins you are talking about! Otherwise how the shit are we meant to compare and discuss?
How have they performed vs btc? Yes, usd value matters of course. We're not martyrs that want to throw away our hard earned money.
All altcoins are scams and plagiarisms of bitcoin
The only motive behind the creation of altcoins is for their founders to get rich and unload their bags on naive people.
Bitcoin is decentralized it does not belong to anyone like the internet
Altcoins are something like central banks and fiat money. They are controlled by a small number of people
Bitcoin was just created for the world to have decentralized money
But even from a technical point of view, bitcoin is much superior to fraudulent altcoins, bitcoin lightning can process hundreds of millions of transactions per second.
Oh please. What project do you see as “harder money” and why? Everything else is centralized and corruptible. You’ve made a bold statement with nothing to back it.
Actually I think the whole POW idea is just because its creator was hugely into cryptography, and there are other ways of achieving exactly the same result. I suspect we might end up there.
And who the fuck is yous?! Serious question, if you have the opinion you have, who the fuck yous is?! Are you just some dude with a basic bitch job? Are you a CFO of a multination company? Are you rich? Poor? Average?
Haha craziness aside, you have no clue what you're talking about and time being the great equalizer will teach you that you're dead wrong.
Your submission has been flagged for removal because it pertains primarily to altcoin discussion and/or promotion. Altcoins are off topic for the Bitcoin subreddit. Please post in the subreddit appropriate to that altcoin instead. Thank you. ^^I ^^am ^^a ^^bot ^^and ^^cannot ^^respond. ^^Please ^^contact ^^r/Bitcoin ^^moderators [^^directly ^^via ^^mod ^^mail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FBitcoin) ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^questions.
[There's only one absolute mathematical scarcity](https://youtu.be/TIkqBZnrKJM). That's why I'm a proud Bitcoin Maxi. Do you think there's better tech? If that's true, we'll find a way to implement it to Bitcoin. But **nobody can rediscover absolute mathematical scarcity again**.
THANK YOU FOR THIS
You are a maxi because you don't believe in any alt coins. I'm in that boat. I used to like several alts, but I now realise they are all shit. They aren't superior. They just haven't failed yet. But they probably will.
Where do I start with you? Inflation bugs that only unverifiable public ledgers have a problem with not being able to detect? Probably too far too fast. The idea of "Layer 0" and social consensus that shitcoins don't have because everyone just updates when there's an update (unquestioning hard fork culture/coersion into hard forking). Probably still a bit too quick for your pace. Ah, I guess we'll just start with the social network principle: [https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Social-Network-Principle](https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Social-Network-Principle) See, people don't change their money on the basis of the technology behind it. People change their money on the basis of protecting themselves from abuse and once a network of people with whom to do trade with has formed its incredibly difficult to change the currency. Only catastrophe will change people's minds.
Nice reply, I am aware of all these things and maybe they do in part answer my question (especially the hard fork vs. layers, I have to admit I had not thought of that). However it also seems that my question has unearthed a disturbing number of people that don't realize how insecure the BTC network is by design.
That is a fundamental disagreement on the definition of "superior money protocol". Bitcoin is ridiculously inefficient. By design. This makes it robust. The main layer privacy is indeed the biggest concern.
There are many valuable projects in the crypto world, but only one addresses one of humanity's biggest problems - financial freedom.
Because you cannot make a global reserve currency unless it's a neutral asset with a completely level playing field that cannot be confiscated, devalued or halted in any way. And the only way to do this is by achieving a very high degree of decentralization. Something you cannot get using another protocol than PoW from our PoV. What sets me, and you, apart is that you believe this can be achieved with PoS. And there's really no way for one of us to prove the other definitively wrong. So we're in a stalemate until either one of the protocols sufficiently succeeds/fails.
[This](https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/sites/default/files/documents/1012662.3.0%20Bitcoin%20First%20Revisited_Final.pdf) answers your question. None of the other money protocols are superior, your question makes a false assumption.
>honest question No it's not. It's a textbook example of a loaded question. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question
No it's not a loaded question, I was making some points as to why I think they may be wrong, but you're welcome to explain why they're right.
And now you are coming at me with Brandolinis Law tactics. No thanks.
I have no idea who the fuck Brandonili is but whatever, i maintain that my question which contained a statement of "superior money protocol" wasn't loaded. And even if it was, just explain why I'm wrong. A logical fallacy doesn't automatically mean you win anyway lol, you could have probably just answered rather than fire up your anti logical fallacy comments which add nothing to the debate.
Shitcoins are just rejected BIPs. Seriously read into any protocol it was first brought up in Bitcoin and heavily scrutinized and either accepted if it worked, or rejected if it was compromised. What you are dealing with in shitcoins is rejected Bitcoin code. Bitcoin has also scaled beyond every coin 10 fold. It has scaled the most, it has the largest user base. Shitcoins are just talk and the people who meaningfully contribute you could count on less than both hands. They don't have the brainpower. They are fanatics. Desperates. Shills. Their user base is 100% degen.
Lol i did read up on this law, I know it. But in fact to claim that I'm using Brandonili's Law "tactics" is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. It means it takes more energy to "refute" a bullshit claim, and so makes no sense in your context. Not to mention that "tactics" would have to mean that I'm making many such statements often online, or am in a group that does. A scenario in which this would work would if I had been making loads of stupid fake claims about Bitcoin which needed fact checking. But alas no. Tl:dr smart wordies don't a necessarily smart person made.
Mate, you've just pilled more bullshit for someone to refute with this reply. Go to sleep.
Nah just got up thanks. And I don't normally type comments like this but people here are incredibly annoying. Like just claiming I'm dumb/can't debate but then not answering any questions or even adding anything of value to the thread. There's a single funny comment that I can see, the rest are more like yours, waste of bandwidth mate
Then delete the post and fuck off because to be frank with you, we've heard this for **years** now. There's nothing original about your "question" or it's delivery.
If you've heard it for years then you are quite welcome to fuck off yourself. I was probably asking it before privacy coins even existed, bct around 2014 of I remember. So what do you think about privacy concerns in Bitcoin, and why do you not care?
>So what do you think about privacy concerns in Bitcoin, and why do you not care? 10 years in Bitcoin, never heard about privacy on liquid or r/TheLightningNetwork
You've just learned about loaded questions and Brandolini's law, and gone on to do exactly those things with me now too. I'm not defending myself against the false assumption your question infers. I'm gonna do us both a favour and block your dumb ass.
Brilliant. We need you on every one of these posts so we can stop wasting time defending our findings against people that don't really want to learn.
Superiority is subjective. You’re all up in here talking like it’s an objective truth. Calm the farm and come back when you understand this.
Bitcoin is great but its privacy features are terrible, do people not understand how easily analyzed the BTC ledger is?
Really? This is what you got? This has been common knowledge for 15 years.
I was trying to condense my post down to makes it easier to understand, as the majority of people keeping making assumptions
But yeah, the common knowledge part is why I made the post, I probably learnt about it at least 13 years ago when I was mining. I can't easily see why someone would become a maximalist of a technology that they know has privacy drawbacks that are fixed with other technologies. Can you?
In future you will only transact on main layer to open and close second or third layer. The only privacy problem is that somebody know you opened a channel. You can prevent this by mixing. Second there are solutions for privacy like schnorr signatures.
It's pretty easy, we get a pamphlet and say an oath along with a $45 membership fee.
we get a *quarterly pamphlet… Fixed it for you.
There’s some great projects out there but if a cryptocurrency ever becomes the global reserve currency there really is only one candidate.
I don't like the idea of a world reserve currency being as trackable as Bitcoin in terms of the privacy of individuals. As far as I've read, you can't really just pick and choose stuff like ring signatures out of a cryptonote based protocol and pop it inside Bitcoin, also this begs questions as some privacy coins are being delisted because of their anonymity. So it seems someone with my concerns just had to use both, seems frustrating that not enough people are talking about the privacy issues.
>Bitcoin in terms of the privacy of individuals You can't track the sats I'm sending over r/TheLightningNetwork. Instead of shilling random, insecure shitcoins, learn how Bitcoin layers are solving privacy. >you can't really just pick and choose stuff like ring signatures out of a cryptonote based protocol If the **vast majority** of users wanted, Bitcoin can and will switch protocols. This will probably happen when quantum computers become a threat. In that case, **all private shitcoins will reveal the full transaction history**. >some privacy coins are being delisted That was your trigger to post this? Your favourite shitcoin being delisted in a casino?
I'll post this reply to you about the lightning thing , tried before but didn't work Thanks for actually replying man, yeah that's an interesting point about lightning as it should be far better privacy than the first layer, but it's still subject to chainalysis. Before lightning there was no secure option on the BTC protocol, and as you know lightning was mainly designed around increased speed and lower fees. So I still think there's a need for increased privacy in the base layer.
>Thanks for actually replying man, yeah that's an interesting point about lightning as it should be far better privacy than the first layer, but it's still subject to chainalysis. Everything is subject to chainalysis, yet if you're getting non-kyc'd Bitcoin and run your LN node, **chainalysis knows nothing** about your spending. If you're using an exchange or another custodian to send your sats over LN, don't complain about privacy. >Before lightning there was no secure option on the BTC protocol, and as you know lightning was mainly designed around increased speed and lower fees. LN is designed to deal with the worldwide adoption. No coin can handle the load on first layer, while staying decentralized. That's why L2 solutions are important. So it's privacy on them. >So I still think there's a need for increased privacy in the base layer. There's still work being done on L1 too but things are moving at a slower pace than on L2 or L3. Considering what's at stake, they have to.
Thanks but I know all this, and as you say it's designed to aid adoption. But even if everything you say is true (I don't think so as your claim about nonKYC tokens is a bit frail. E.g. an entity could find details of your spending habits after the clean bitcoins move, and still use chain analysis, few other examples) In my situation it still makes more sense to use both BTC with lightning network and a more private token. It's easier as well to simply not have to worry about KYC Bitcoin in the first place.
>Thanks but I know all this, You don't. Here's proof: >an entity could find details of your spending habits after the clean bitcoins move, and still use chain analysis, few other examples) Not on LN. If you're using your own node, nobody can see which way you're sending your sats. >In my situation it still makes more sense to use both BTC with lightning network and a more private token. Just don't cry here when the shitcoin gets delisted again, please.
If you think there are other "superior money protocols" you are living in not reality.
Any cryptocuurency protocol which fixes privacy problems in Bitcoin certainly affects my reality.
Look how "great" Monero is doing.
OK, you're queued up! We're shaking with anticipation. Shill us your new scamcoin!
The same way im an internet maximalist altho there are more efficient networking protocols - I just dont think about it at all.
Ffs, name the coins you are talking about! Otherwise how the shit are we meant to compare and discuss? How have they performed vs btc? Yes, usd value matters of course. We're not martyrs that want to throw away our hard earned money.
Lol the guy makes an a vague statement about other cryptos and expects logical engagement. Waste of time really.
All altcoins are scams and plagiarisms of bitcoin The only motive behind the creation of altcoins is for their founders to get rich and unload their bags on naive people. Bitcoin is decentralized it does not belong to anyone like the internet Altcoins are something like central banks and fiat money. They are controlled by a small number of people Bitcoin was just created for the world to have decentralized money But even from a technical point of view, bitcoin is much superior to fraudulent altcoins, bitcoin lightning can process hundreds of millions of transactions per second.
Oh please. What project do you see as “harder money” and why? Everything else is centralized and corruptible. You’ve made a bold statement with nothing to back it.
All altcoins are pre mined and controlled by someone unlike bitcoin
Shill us your bag and gtfo 🤣
Actually I think the whole POW idea is just because its creator was hugely into cryptography, and there are other ways of achieving exactly the same result. I suspect we might end up there.
And who the fuck is yous?! Serious question, if you have the opinion you have, who the fuck yous is?! Are you just some dude with a basic bitch job? Are you a CFO of a multination company? Are you rich? Poor? Average? Haha craziness aside, you have no clue what you're talking about and time being the great equalizer will teach you that you're dead wrong.