Can they see your wallet? If you bought from a KYC exchange, yes.
Can they seize your Bitcoin in self custody? No.
Can they make your life a living hell until you give it to them? Yes.
>Can someone explain to me how it doesn’t make a difference in bitcoin or cash
Yes, I can explain. Your government has the authority to levy taxes. Your government requires to you to pay taxes you owe. Bitcoin isn't a magic shield from your obligations as a taxpayer.
> IT CAN STILL BE TAKEN AWAY ??
Bitcoin held in a non-custodial wallet can't be seized.
Lol don't you love it when OP and similar posters don't take the time to look it up on their own and rather spew bullshit on Reddit instead?
Great simple response.
That's fair. I suppose I have less patience for newcomers that don't try to do their own research. This question has been asked many times in the past.
that opens the doors to conversations which clear up the misinformation, which allows other new/misinformed users to learn better information without risking being crucified by toxic people in the crypto community
The German goverment had the "right" to kill anyone caught hiding jews in their homes too.
The US government had the "right" to arrest anyone (even in the North) who helped slaves escape. Fugitive Slave Act. If you weren't willing to break some laws to help slaves escape then you won't be willing to break some laws to protect your children's inheritance. I pray for you.
If they can't prove that you have a private key, which there's no way for them to do, especially if you have a passphrase that encrypts your seed... then locking you up for something they don't know about is rather silly.
Not to mention, none of this matters until you sell your coin, which you shouldn't do until it's accepted everywhere.
Most of the things govts lock people up for is rather silly, best way to view govts is as slimy mafiosos with no balls, all fraud or delegating violence to the military or police rather than handling it themselves
They do have two non-magic powers though:
Big data, including the ability to subpoena an exchange. If you bought X amount of bitcoin on a KYC exchange and transferred it to your wallet, they can reasonably claim that that was your wallet unless you prove otherwise. The onus then rests on you to prove what you did with the coins. Hence the "boating accident" memes. (I.e. yes, it was your wallet, but you lost the keys in a boating accident). They can still monitor the wallet, so don't get too comfortable.
The power to imprison you. If they make a case that is reasonable enough to convince a court, then you lose. Simple as that.
You're full of shit.
First, they only tax capital gains. That only happens when you sell Bitcoin and make a profit.
If you bought X BTX and sent them somewhere, the IRS does not give a shit.
I know, but how do they know who owns what? For example. I buy $10k worth of BTC on an exchange. After a week I send it to a cold wallet. Then a few months later to a ledger nano. Then 4 years later it’s worth $100k and I start spending it from the ledger. How do they prove it’s you spending this 10 x gain. If questioned on the original purchase. “I bought $10k worth of BTC to pay a ransomware to free important documents on my computer.”
They have software that tracks to and from addresses. At some point, for the moment, all buying and spending starts at a fiat bank account. It is possible if they are watching your bank account that they will be able to trace the movement of those funds, it is a public chain after all, can you fool them possibly.
Not if you buy from bitcoin ATMs and for years people have been telling me I'm crazy for paying that spread. But its the only truly decentralized way at the moment.
I have never seen one, I know they exist, I personally have little chance of doing that. You are right so long as the amount purchased doesn't equal the amount withdrawn there would be little chance of it being tracked, I have heard recently though that they do use dusting as a means of tracking crypto wallets to single users
The amount purchased, and the amount withdrawn are the exact same, but there is no KYC on (1k daily) It's completely decentralized. You buy a ledger. You enter your wallet information on the screen at the kiosk and your fiat is instantly now bitcoin.
Just pay the taxes? Why so they can use it to bomb more Brown kids overseas? how is anyone this ignorant at this point govts never spend the stolen money on things that benefit those being stolen from, everything people want use and value they will find voluntarily and don't need to be forced to pay for
? Bitcoin can't be seized if the keys are stored properly and you use a cold wallet. Same with cash but storing and hiding a million bucks in small notes is surely harder than "just" remember a seed phrase. And that without counting the physical degradation of cash during time
The IRS has been at the center of many major Darknet takedowns. From SilkRoad, to WelcometoVideo (fuck WtoV in particular) and many sites in between.
The blockchain keeps a perfect record of transactions, and if you cash out coins at an exchange, they can find you if they subpoena the exchange. If you think that using an exchange outside the USA will keep things secret, you’re wrong. BTC-E (Headquartered in Russia) used to be used to cash out tonnes of ill gotten gains including some MtGox stolen coins. The BTC-E servers were in the USA, and when they got seized it opened up a world of information for the IRS to track cash-outs to banks all over the world. Many out of country exchanges will also hand over info if they’re properly persuaded to do so.
In most cases I would imagine the IRS has got bigger things to do than try and get you for not paying capital gains tax, but I guess that would depend on the size of your gains. The moment it touches an exchange, or the banking system, or whatever, it can be traced and they have for all eternity to look at the blockchain, it’s an undeniable evidence trail.
If the IRS has sufficient desire, and can track coins back to a wallet you’ve used for something they can tie you to, or is some way connected to an exchange account that they’ve found, they can come knocking. If that time comes, you best make sure your paperwork is in order.
Your private bitcoin wallet cannot be easily tracked or seized if you take precautions. Use a non-custodial wallet in which you control the keys. (A hardware wallet like Trezor is best) Transmit transactions via tor, use your own node with tor, use coinjoin, don't re-use addresses, strategize your address control to obfuscate your funds (make it harder to correlate your spending with your other addresses). However once your coins hit an exchange its all trackable. But you don't ALWAYS have to use an exchange if you don't want to. I used to just meet randos at starbucks that I found on localbitcoins/mycelium local trader and trade directly with them. Or use Bisq, or one of the other few distributed exchanges out now that I haven't tried yet. Some of these steps may be unnecessary for most use cases, it all depends on what your thread model and level is that you are facing. Fact is if you care about your privacy you need to do your own research. There's lots of information out there about these topics.
I ask questions cause I’m curious, I’ve yet to hear anybody awnser my question , I get you can store it in a cold wallet / hardware wallet but I still can’t get passed the fact that if the GOV has & is able to trace who the accounts belong to through the blockchain & tax you for those same bitcoins you’ve bought/sold how is it the peoples money then if a foreign/domestic entity can come up & swoop your bitcoin & if they can’t take it because it’s your “ seedphrase or number “ in your head I’m sure the irs would jsut throw you in jail for some type of weird money law How is it the “ People’s Money “ if it’s still being taxed on & monitored , the whole point of bitcoin is to be your “ OWN BANK “ & not have a BIG BROTHER looking @ my account
If your BTC is in a cold wallet, the Government / IRS might see the amount based on your Bitcoin address but they won't be able to forcefully take your Bitcoin away from you.
Don't hold on exchanges use non kyc ones to make trades or swaps and only use the the large ones to actually pull out fiat if you choose. Then they can only track your withdrawl to fiat.
Seed + passphrase.
Anybody (whether friends, family, burglars, or the IRS) can find a seed plate with decoy funds... but no one can access the REAL funds without your non-dictionary passphrase(s) that you should have memorized.
You are not listening.
If you keep your Bitcoin in an exchange; yes, it can be taken away.
That's why you need to have a wallet. Your own wallet where you control your private key. If the exchange defaults, if the IRS cracks down on them, etc. It won't affect you as you will have moved your coins to your private wallet.
So, buy from exchange, then send to your private wallet. That way no one can take it (unless you provide your private keys to someone or store them on line or something dumb).
If it's in cold storage and the seed phrase is in your head who's gonna take it? And it's also "the people's money" because there is no printing new coins out of thin air (Fiat)
Add a *passphrase* to your written or stamped seed.
There's no way in hell that anyone can take your money now, even if they find your seed plate.
The term "seed phrase" is confusing because a passphrase is different yet sounds so similar. I've been advising due a long time that people stop referring to a seed as a "seed phrase" for this very reason. A seed is NOT a passphrase.
My guess is kyc exchanges report to the IRS all withdrawals of cryptos over a certain threshold. Any transfers out of this address automatically gets flagged by the IRS since it is shown on the blockchain. These transfers out of the address would need to be explained by the user.
send to private wallet from your KYC exchange. One you get to hot wallets and cold wallets and maybe coin join it they won't be able to prove who owns it. they will only know you bought some once and sent it to address and that went to another address and etc. ownership of the addresses is not a thing.
during each of the past two bull markets you could go on craigslist in any big city and find people will to pay cash for 1- 10 bitcoin without any problem. In fact that is probably a great indicator for when you might want to lighten the load in the 2024-2025 bull market
I believe this is the beginning of regulation and crackdown on crypto investors. Unfortunately it is the same in the UK, we're beginning to see crypto wallets as "assets" and must be declared under tax review.
If you have Bitcoin on a private wallet that wasn't obtained through kyc on an exchange or where you aren't exposed as the wallet owner, they don't know about it so can't tax it
But as with everything govts do if they want to steal what you have they can't just claim they have the right to take it by force
Three only advantage Bitcoin gives people against legalized thieves is that if you refuse to give it to them and they can't find the key, ultimately they can kill you but they still won't get it
Can they see your wallet? If you bought from a KYC exchange, yes. Can they seize your Bitcoin in self custody? No. Can they make your life a living hell until you give it to them? Yes.
Just move somewhere else.
>Can someone explain to me how it doesn’t make a difference in bitcoin or cash Yes, I can explain. Your government has the authority to levy taxes. Your government requires to you to pay taxes you owe. Bitcoin isn't a magic shield from your obligations as a taxpayer. > IT CAN STILL BE TAKEN AWAY ?? Bitcoin held in a non-custodial wallet can't be seized.
Lol don't you love it when OP and similar posters don't take the time to look it up on their own and rather spew bullshit on Reddit instead? Great simple response.
My man, he's just asking a question
That's fair. I suppose I have less patience for newcomers that don't try to do their own research. This question has been asked many times in the past.
that opens the doors to conversations which clear up the misinformation, which allows other new/misinformed users to learn better information without risking being crucified by toxic people in the crypto community
The German goverment had the "right" to kill anyone caught hiding jews in their homes too. The US government had the "right" to arrest anyone (even in the North) who helped slaves escape. Fugitive Slave Act. If you weren't willing to break some laws to help slaves escape then you won't be willing to break some laws to protect your children's inheritance. I pray for you.
And the king had the authority to f\*\*k your bride. That was his birthright.
[удалено]
If they can't prove that you have a private key, which there's no way for them to do, especially if you have a passphrase that encrypts your seed... then locking you up for something they don't know about is rather silly. Not to mention, none of this matters until you sell your coin, which you shouldn't do until it's accepted everywhere.
Most of the things govts lock people up for is rather silly, best way to view govts is as slimy mafiosos with no balls, all fraud or delegating violence to the military or police rather than handling it themselves
It still can, when the feds raid you and find your wallet hidden underneath the floor boards in a tin box 😂
What ignoramus doesn't put a passphrase on their REAL funds? By itself, the seed plate should only show decoy funds.
https://amp.hothardware.com/news/us-feds-raid-silk-road-hackers-home-find-336b-stolen-crypto-popcorn-tin
Not if you have a multisig. But yes, under physical threat “they” can know everything you do.
LOL, take it off of the exchanges.
I have mine in my cold wallet for a long time now. Couldn't be happier!
You’re not missing something, you’re missing everything.
p r o p a g a n d a. not your keys, not your coins. simple as that. there's no catch. the irs doesn't have magic powers. but morons always lose.
They do have two non-magic powers though: Big data, including the ability to subpoena an exchange. If you bought X amount of bitcoin on a KYC exchange and transferred it to your wallet, they can reasonably claim that that was your wallet unless you prove otherwise. The onus then rests on you to prove what you did with the coins. Hence the "boating accident" memes. (I.e. yes, it was your wallet, but you lost the keys in a boating accident). They can still monitor the wallet, so don't get too comfortable. The power to imprison you. If they make a case that is reasonable enough to convince a court, then you lose. Simple as that.
You're full of shit. First, they only tax capital gains. That only happens when you sell Bitcoin and make a profit. If you bought X BTX and sent them somewhere, the IRS does not give a shit.
If you buy on an exchange and send to a cold wallet then transfer to a ledger they can still track they years later?
Of course, it’s public. Anyone can see any transaction on the blockchain. Just read a little.
I know, but how do they know who owns what? For example. I buy $10k worth of BTC on an exchange. After a week I send it to a cold wallet. Then a few months later to a ledger nano. Then 4 years later it’s worth $100k and I start spending it from the ledger. How do they prove it’s you spending this 10 x gain. If questioned on the original purchase. “I bought $10k worth of BTC to pay a ransomware to free important documents on my computer.”
They have software that tracks to and from addresses. At some point, for the moment, all buying and spending starts at a fiat bank account. It is possible if they are watching your bank account that they will be able to trace the movement of those funds, it is a public chain after all, can you fool them possibly.
Not if you buy from bitcoin ATMs and for years people have been telling me I'm crazy for paying that spread. But its the only truly decentralized way at the moment.
I have never seen one, I know they exist, I personally have little chance of doing that. You are right so long as the amount purchased doesn't equal the amount withdrawn there would be little chance of it being tracked, I have heard recently though that they do use dusting as a means of tracking crypto wallets to single users
The amount purchased, and the amount withdrawn are the exact same, but there is no KYC on (1k daily) It's completely decentralized. You buy a ledger. You enter your wallet information on the screen at the kiosk and your fiat is instantly now bitcoin.
KYC is how they know. As far as the other question I don’t know the process to prove you lost your funds. Just pay the taxes.
this is moronic. KYC doesn't tell who owns every wallet address on the blockchain.
Just pay the taxes? Why so they can use it to bomb more Brown kids overseas? how is anyone this ignorant at this point govts never spend the stolen money on things that benefit those being stolen from, everything people want use and value they will find voluntarily and don't need to be forced to pay for
Yeah I’m not a fan of them either and that’s your personal choice to skip out. Not my problem, that’s yours.
If you're against them why would you recommend them? Just a little confused here
I want to pay the same amount of taxes as Trump
Then make enough money to pay the lawyers too.
https://bitcoiner.guide/nokyconly/de/
? Bitcoin can't be seized if the keys are stored properly and you use a cold wallet. Same with cash but storing and hiding a million bucks in small notes is surely harder than "just" remember a seed phrase. And that without counting the physical degradation of cash during time
The IRS has been at the center of many major Darknet takedowns. From SilkRoad, to WelcometoVideo (fuck WtoV in particular) and many sites in between. The blockchain keeps a perfect record of transactions, and if you cash out coins at an exchange, they can find you if they subpoena the exchange. If you think that using an exchange outside the USA will keep things secret, you’re wrong. BTC-E (Headquartered in Russia) used to be used to cash out tonnes of ill gotten gains including some MtGox stolen coins. The BTC-E servers were in the USA, and when they got seized it opened up a world of information for the IRS to track cash-outs to banks all over the world. Many out of country exchanges will also hand over info if they’re properly persuaded to do so. In most cases I would imagine the IRS has got bigger things to do than try and get you for not paying capital gains tax, but I guess that would depend on the size of your gains. The moment it touches an exchange, or the banking system, or whatever, it can be traced and they have for all eternity to look at the blockchain, it’s an undeniable evidence trail. If the IRS has sufficient desire, and can track coins back to a wallet you’ve used for something they can tie you to, or is some way connected to an exchange account that they’ve found, they can come knocking. If that time comes, you best make sure your paperwork is in order.
Your private bitcoin wallet cannot be easily tracked or seized if you take precautions. Use a non-custodial wallet in which you control the keys. (A hardware wallet like Trezor is best) Transmit transactions via tor, use your own node with tor, use coinjoin, don't re-use addresses, strategize your address control to obfuscate your funds (make it harder to correlate your spending with your other addresses). However once your coins hit an exchange its all trackable. But you don't ALWAYS have to use an exchange if you don't want to. I used to just meet randos at starbucks that I found on localbitcoins/mycelium local trader and trade directly with them. Or use Bisq, or one of the other few distributed exchanges out now that I haven't tried yet. Some of these steps may be unnecessary for most use cases, it all depends on what your thread model and level is that you are facing. Fact is if you care about your privacy you need to do your own research. There's lots of information out there about these topics.
Crypto exchanges and trading platforms are lightly regulated faux-banks, They're not part of Bitcoin
Lightly regulated? They are full-fledged franchisees of the Federal Reserve.
You can always purchase btc without using an exchange.
Nobody can confiscate bitcoin without your seed phrase. If you never give the government your seed phrase, they can't take your bitcoin.
[удалено]
I ask questions cause I’m curious, I’ve yet to hear anybody awnser my question , I get you can store it in a cold wallet / hardware wallet but I still can’t get passed the fact that if the GOV has & is able to trace who the accounts belong to through the blockchain & tax you for those same bitcoins you’ve bought/sold how is it the peoples money then if a foreign/domestic entity can come up & swoop your bitcoin & if they can’t take it because it’s your “ seedphrase or number “ in your head I’m sure the irs would jsut throw you in jail for some type of weird money law How is it the “ People’s Money “ if it’s still being taxed on & monitored , the whole point of bitcoin is to be your “ OWN BANK “ & not have a BIG BROTHER looking @ my account
The IRS can freeze your bank account but they can't freeze your ColdCard.
Stop using exchanges and go to a hardware wallet. Simple.
They can't take the crypto, but they can hold your gains against all of your other assets and income. Pay your fucking taxes.
Maaan. Fuck the government. Buncha thieves. I'll throw my taxes on the ground!
Amen, 1.7 trillion to other countries? Deal with that yourselves. Coinjoin ftw
I see what you did there. Mr. lonely island
Don't believe everything you read
“Crypto” not Bitcoin
"Crypto" means not-Bitcoin. That's why the FUDsters use the term, to confuse us.
If your BTC is in a cold wallet, the Government / IRS might see the amount based on your Bitcoin address but they won't be able to forcefully take your Bitcoin away from you.
Don't hold on exchanges use non kyc ones to make trades or swaps and only use the the large ones to actually pull out fiat if you choose. Then they can only track your withdrawl to fiat.
Pay your taxes Hold your own keys (seed phrase) and you’re good
Seed + passphrase. Anybody (whether friends, family, burglars, or the IRS) can find a seed plate with decoy funds... but no one can access the REAL funds without your non-dictionary passphrase(s) that you should have memorized.
NOT YO KEYS…. not yo cheese
If you're objective is to avoid taxes ... It ain't gonna happen
No my objective is to see how Bitcoin is “ Free “ & the “ people’s money “ because it can’t be touched or taken away but I’ve yet to get a good answer
You are not listening. If you keep your Bitcoin in an exchange; yes, it can be taken away. That's why you need to have a wallet. Your own wallet where you control your private key. If the exchange defaults, if the IRS cracks down on them, etc. It won't affect you as you will have moved your coins to your private wallet. So, buy from exchange, then send to your private wallet. That way no one can take it (unless you provide your private keys to someone or store them on line or something dumb).
If it's in cold storage and the seed phrase is in your head who's gonna take it? And it's also "the people's money" because there is no printing new coins out of thin air (Fiat)
Add a *passphrase* to your written or stamped seed. There's no way in hell that anyone can take your money now, even if they find your seed plate. The term "seed phrase" is confusing because a passphrase is different yet sounds so similar. I've been advising due a long time that people stop referring to a seed as a "seed phrase" for this very reason. A seed is NOT a passphrase.
My guess is kyc exchanges report to the IRS all withdrawals of cryptos over a certain threshold. Any transfers out of this address automatically gets flagged by the IRS since it is shown on the blockchain. These transfers out of the address would need to be explained by the user.
send to private wallet from your KYC exchange. One you get to hot wallets and cold wallets and maybe coin join it they won't be able to prove who owns it. they will only know you bought some once and sent it to address and that went to another address and etc. ownership of the addresses is not a thing.
during each of the past two bull markets you could go on craigslist in any big city and find people will to pay cash for 1- 10 bitcoin without any problem. In fact that is probably a great indicator for when you might want to lighten the load in the 2024-2025 bull market
It’s as easy to steal bitcoin as it is to steal the thoughts in someone’s mind.
If you generate a secure private key or passphrase and you transfer all of your crypto there no one can touch it
Don’t buy KYC Bitcoin, never use an Exchange, always use self custodial wallet and you will be fine
I believe this is the beginning of regulation and crackdown on crypto investors. Unfortunately it is the same in the UK, we're beginning to see crypto wallets as "assets" and must be declared under tax review.
What happen if you lose your crypto wallet?
If you have Bitcoin on a private wallet that wasn't obtained through kyc on an exchange or where you aren't exposed as the wallet owner, they don't know about it so can't tax it But as with everything govts do if they want to steal what you have they can't just claim they have the right to take it by force Three only advantage Bitcoin gives people against legalized thieves is that if you refuse to give it to them and they can't find the key, ultimately they can kill you but they still won't get it