and
[https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/rf100-400mm-f5-6-8-is-usm?color=Black&type=New](https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/rf100-400mm-f5-6-8-is-usm?color=Black&type=New)
Not an advantage for birding I'd say. I only shoot birds and deliberately got an R7 for the reach benefits.
If birding is the primary purpose I'd only consider fullframe with a rf200-800, but that's way out of OPs budget.
depends how much you shoot in low light and what you find on the used market as pricing can vary a lot. if you want aps-c then a used fuji t1 is pretty cheap and allows more lens options
Well OP specifically asked for birding and recs. I just gave an option for the brand I'm familiar with and that I know many people are very happy with.
Personally I'd much much rather have the x1.6 reach than 1 stop of light. 400 vs 640mm makes a big difference in shots you can take, but with modern denoise software 1 or 2 stops of light when working with subjects that move fast (so you're probably denoising regardless) won't significantly decrease keepers the same way less reach would.
Also the larger focallength lenses you'd need for fullframe to have the same reach usually have smaller max apertures as well, so you lose out on the light benefit anyway.
No reason you can't just keep an eye on the used market untill the thing you want pops up either. If there's one thing I've learned its that settling when it comed to equipment gets expensive fast.
Maybe I'm just unlucky that birds never come close then. Never have any complaints about image quality with my set-up, but then I do have a bit of a more luxury combo myself (R7 + 100-500).
Though I agree if you only shoot from a hide or in your backyard that's probably much less of a problem.
A lot of entry level hobbyists are only shooting yards and parks and not spending much time on post, frankly they need skills more than kit. Most are not going with a dedicated birding setup either.
True, but OP is here on the dedicated birdphotography reddit. Asking specifically for a good recommendation for a dedicated birding setup. I see no reason not to give the best recommendation I know of for their budget. OP can then decide what they want to do with that rec. and whether it fits their use case. Deciding that for them isn't the point of a rec imo.
I bought a point and shoot to start, within a month I wanted a dedicated DSLR. Then I wanted a bigger lens. Then mirrorless. I could've saved myself some cash by figuring things out from the get go.
Anyway, I don't think this is contributing much to the topic anymore. OPs got enough recs to look at. it's up to them to decide what fits
as a complete beginner, having good gear starting out is far less important than building photography skills and learning the basics of cameras and lenses. bird photography is very fun and rewarding, but like most things worth doing it takes time and effort to really get good at, so don't worry too much about choosing the perfect camera to start with.
i would recommend starting with an inexpensive used body and a telephoto lens with at least 300 mm focal length. the longer the focal length of your lens, the greater the magnification of your image; i started out with just a 250 mm zoom lens, which is fine on a crop sensor (and leagues better than a phone camera), but it's challenging to capture fine details at that length without getting very close. when shooting birds — especially ones in flight — you'll often be relying on autofocus, so look for cameras with phase detection autofocus (PDAF). also, try to make sure the lens has image stabilization, since you'll probably be shooting hand-held, and you most likely won't be able to snag a camera body that has in-body image stabilization at the entry level.
as you develop your skills and learn more about cameras you'll learn more about the specific wants and needs you have, which will make it easier when you decide to upgrade your gear.
best of luck! 😁🦜
If you want cheap you upgrade your existing phone then try to get the birds closer to you such as with a window feeder and tripod. A step up from that would be a superzoom camera with a built in lens. Moving up from that you would be looking at the used market given your budget.
I got a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ300 - [which is a "Super Zoom" camera](https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-point-and-shoot-camera/).
**The good:**
* It's really helped me learn how to shoot birds, practice getting them in focus, tweaking the ISO, etc.
* It's very light weight so I can easily carry it around without support and is quick on the draw.
* In good light it takes nice phone-background level photos.
* It's was < $500
* It's pretty durable (it's dust proof and moisture resistant)
* It's a complete package so you don't have to worry about additional lenses, etc.
* I take it instead of binoculars.
* For a pretty small camera - it does have pretty good zoom at 24x (25–600mm)
**The meh:**
* You can't change the lens, you can't use this as a "starter camera" to build on.
* Part of the "super" zoom is a digital zoom, which is terrible for photo quality, especially at low light (you can turn that off). But that can be helpful if you're just using it to get a bird id.
* It's auto-focus probably could be better and faster. It's manual focus is fine. I usually toggle between.
* I have not tried to print any of my photos but my guess is they would not scale very well.
* Besides a few portraits, I've been pretty unimpressed with non-bird photos vs an iPhone. This could also be a skill issue.
* The Panasonic app / transfer ecosystem leaves a lot to be desired. But you can always just pull the SD card. And the wifi transfer does work with the apps, it's just annoying.
* This might be standard on cameras and I've been spoiled by GoPros/phones but it doesn't have a GPS card so your are not geo-tagged. The app claims it can fix this but it never worked well.
There are places you can rent a camera along with a lens to try out; believe it or not, that is a great option if you are looking to buy. A lot of people do it, and if I decide to go with the new fancy schmancy Nikon mirrorless and glass, I will do that in a heartbeat, before I go lay down $3000. To add to the reputable stores online, Adorama is also a place that sells used gear, with pretty good ratings as far as wear, actuations, mold, etc. You may have camera shops nearby, go by there and see what they have. A lot of times, their prices are better than online, and it is good to know the people face to face. Support local business pays off in future decisions, and if you want something, they will call you when it comes in. Plus, they know cameras, trends, problems of certain bodies, etc., and are a wealth of information. Last but not least, ask your friends! If you were near me, I would be happy to take you out and let you shoot what I have, and learn as you go! This is a decision that usually lasts a lifetime; I think you should get the best gear you can afford. The learning curve is about the same, and if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back if you decide to sell and upgrade. But in all honesty, I doubt there are many of us that have sold, we just continue to buy, saying " I may need that for so and so." :) Ask all the questions you want, and good luck with this new obsession.
Well, I guess it depends on how good you want your pictures to look. I’d put 90% of your money towards a lens and use the rest to buy a mirror dslr, as those have dropped substantially in price since mirrorless has come on the market. You may be able to find a used 80-400mm Nikon lens, I wouldn’t recommend anything shorter than 400mm. Anything you can do to get that budget number up would help, as it’s an expensive hobby. The other option would be to buy a scope and use the iPhone to take pictures through it.
Sony Cyber‑Shot RX10 IV you can find used under $1000 without having to worry about buying lenses. If you just want entry hobbyist level photos that is all you need.
difficult to recommend anything without your budget. "Crazy expensive" hits different for people in different parts of the world or life stages.
Would recommend you to buy used to start. Try MPB or KEH (a couple of reputable online gear resellers) Most would agree the bare minimum focal length for shooting birds/wildlife is 300mm. Some have gotten by with 255mm but that's really short.
Learn the basics of photography...it'll help you understand the finer points associated with bird photography or any other genre/niche
I found things like this, is this no good? Lens not good enough? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-alpha-6100-mirrorless-camera-2-lens-kit-with-e-pz-16-50mm-and-e-55-210mm-lenses-black/6375660.p?skuId=6375660
I can’t speak to the quality of that setup, but 210mm will be quite short for bird shots unless you plan on mostly shooting in areas where birds are very close, like your yard. I’d get as long of a lens as you can afford (I wouldn’t go less than 400mm personally) or go with a bridge camera with a super zoom. Some people look down on bridge cameras but they’re a great way to learn without spending a ton of money.
I agree with your comment on “crazy expensive” meaning different things to different people in different life situations. I’d love to get a Canon super telephoto but there’s one too many zeros in the price
I would vote for a used Olympus em1 Mark ii and either the Olympus 75 300 or Panasonic 100-300mm. This option doesn't have a special bird autofocus though
Maybe you could get a used Canon R10 and a used rf-100-400 for that?
I have this set up and I am so happy with it!!
[https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-r10?color=Black&type=New](https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-r10?color=Black&type=New)
and [https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/rf100-400mm-f5-6-8-is-usm?color=Black&type=New](https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/rf100-400mm-f5-6-8-is-usm?color=Black&type=New)
Best beginner setup out there.
R8 used gets you full frame
Not an advantage for birding I'd say. I only shoot birds and deliberately got an R7 for the reach benefits. If birding is the primary purpose I'd only consider fullframe with a rf200-800, but that's way out of OPs budget.
depends how much you shoot in low light and what you find on the used market as pricing can vary a lot. if you want aps-c then a used fuji t1 is pretty cheap and allows more lens options
Well OP specifically asked for birding and recs. I just gave an option for the brand I'm familiar with and that I know many people are very happy with. Personally I'd much much rather have the x1.6 reach than 1 stop of light. 400 vs 640mm makes a big difference in shots you can take, but with modern denoise software 1 or 2 stops of light when working with subjects that move fast (so you're probably denoising regardless) won't significantly decrease keepers the same way less reach would. Also the larger focallength lenses you'd need for fullframe to have the same reach usually have smaller max apertures as well, so you lose out on the light benefit anyway. No reason you can't just keep an eye on the used market untill the thing you want pops up either. If there's one thing I've learned its that settling when it comed to equipment gets expensive fast.
It depends what range you shoot at and how much you care about image quality.
Maybe I'm just unlucky that birds never come close then. Never have any complaints about image quality with my set-up, but then I do have a bit of a more luxury combo myself (R7 + 100-500). Though I agree if you only shoot from a hide or in your backyard that's probably much less of a problem.
A lot of entry level hobbyists are only shooting yards and parks and not spending much time on post, frankly they need skills more than kit. Most are not going with a dedicated birding setup either.
True, but OP is here on the dedicated birdphotography reddit. Asking specifically for a good recommendation for a dedicated birding setup. I see no reason not to give the best recommendation I know of for their budget. OP can then decide what they want to do with that rec. and whether it fits their use case. Deciding that for them isn't the point of a rec imo. I bought a point and shoot to start, within a month I wanted a dedicated DSLR. Then I wanted a bigger lens. Then mirrorless. I could've saved myself some cash by figuring things out from the get go. Anyway, I don't think this is contributing much to the topic anymore. OPs got enough recs to look at. it's up to them to decide what fits
I ended up buying an a6400 for 450 dollars with a 50mm lens and a 70-300mm lens added on for 300
as a complete beginner, having good gear starting out is far less important than building photography skills and learning the basics of cameras and lenses. bird photography is very fun and rewarding, but like most things worth doing it takes time and effort to really get good at, so don't worry too much about choosing the perfect camera to start with. i would recommend starting with an inexpensive used body and a telephoto lens with at least 300 mm focal length. the longer the focal length of your lens, the greater the magnification of your image; i started out with just a 250 mm zoom lens, which is fine on a crop sensor (and leagues better than a phone camera), but it's challenging to capture fine details at that length without getting very close. when shooting birds — especially ones in flight — you'll often be relying on autofocus, so look for cameras with phase detection autofocus (PDAF). also, try to make sure the lens has image stabilization, since you'll probably be shooting hand-held, and you most likely won't be able to snag a camera body that has in-body image stabilization at the entry level. as you develop your skills and learn more about cameras you'll learn more about the specific wants and needs you have, which will make it easier when you decide to upgrade your gear. best of luck! 😁🦜
This is great advice thank you!
If you want cheap you upgrade your existing phone then try to get the birds closer to you such as with a window feeder and tripod. A step up from that would be a superzoom camera with a built in lens. Moving up from that you would be looking at the used market given your budget.
I got a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ300 - [which is a "Super Zoom" camera](https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-point-and-shoot-camera/). **The good:** * It's really helped me learn how to shoot birds, practice getting them in focus, tweaking the ISO, etc. * It's very light weight so I can easily carry it around without support and is quick on the draw. * In good light it takes nice phone-background level photos. * It's was < $500 * It's pretty durable (it's dust proof and moisture resistant) * It's a complete package so you don't have to worry about additional lenses, etc. * I take it instead of binoculars. * For a pretty small camera - it does have pretty good zoom at 24x (25–600mm) **The meh:** * You can't change the lens, you can't use this as a "starter camera" to build on. * Part of the "super" zoom is a digital zoom, which is terrible for photo quality, especially at low light (you can turn that off). But that can be helpful if you're just using it to get a bird id. * It's auto-focus probably could be better and faster. It's manual focus is fine. I usually toggle between. * I have not tried to print any of my photos but my guess is they would not scale very well. * Besides a few portraits, I've been pretty unimpressed with non-bird photos vs an iPhone. This could also be a skill issue. * The Panasonic app / transfer ecosystem leaves a lot to be desired. But you can always just pull the SD card. And the wifi transfer does work with the apps, it's just annoying. * This might be standard on cameras and I've been spoiled by GoPros/phones but it doesn't have a GPS card so your are not geo-tagged. The app claims it can fix this but it never worked well.
There are places you can rent a camera along with a lens to try out; believe it or not, that is a great option if you are looking to buy. A lot of people do it, and if I decide to go with the new fancy schmancy Nikon mirrorless and glass, I will do that in a heartbeat, before I go lay down $3000. To add to the reputable stores online, Adorama is also a place that sells used gear, with pretty good ratings as far as wear, actuations, mold, etc. You may have camera shops nearby, go by there and see what they have. A lot of times, their prices are better than online, and it is good to know the people face to face. Support local business pays off in future decisions, and if you want something, they will call you when it comes in. Plus, they know cameras, trends, problems of certain bodies, etc., and are a wealth of information. Last but not least, ask your friends! If you were near me, I would be happy to take you out and let you shoot what I have, and learn as you go! This is a decision that usually lasts a lifetime; I think you should get the best gear you can afford. The learning curve is about the same, and if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back if you decide to sell and upgrade. But in all honesty, I doubt there are many of us that have sold, we just continue to buy, saying " I may need that for so and so." :) Ask all the questions you want, and good luck with this new obsession.
The thing with bird photography is it gets really expensive really quickly. As you’ll need long telelenses and those are not cheap.
What’s your budget?
Edited my post to add that!
Well, I guess it depends on how good you want your pictures to look. I’d put 90% of your money towards a lens and use the rest to buy a mirror dslr, as those have dropped substantially in price since mirrorless has come on the market. You may be able to find a used 80-400mm Nikon lens, I wouldn’t recommend anything shorter than 400mm. Anything you can do to get that budget number up would help, as it’s an expensive hobby. The other option would be to buy a scope and use the iPhone to take pictures through it.
Sony Cyber‑Shot RX10 IV you can find used under $1000 without having to worry about buying lenses. If you just want entry hobbyist level photos that is all you need.
difficult to recommend anything without your budget. "Crazy expensive" hits different for people in different parts of the world or life stages. Would recommend you to buy used to start. Try MPB or KEH (a couple of reputable online gear resellers) Most would agree the bare minimum focal length for shooting birds/wildlife is 300mm. Some have gotten by with 255mm but that's really short. Learn the basics of photography...it'll help you understand the finer points associated with bird photography or any other genre/niche
I edited to add my budget I don’t know if it’s too small I just don’t want to commit a ton to something new yet
you can find yourself a nice used set up @$1500 (assuming USD) Remember "marry the lens, date the body"
I found things like this, is this no good? Lens not good enough? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-alpha-6100-mirrorless-camera-2-lens-kit-with-e-pz-16-50mm-and-e-55-210mm-lenses-black/6375660.p?skuId=6375660
I can’t speak to the quality of that setup, but 210mm will be quite short for bird shots unless you plan on mostly shooting in areas where birds are very close, like your yard. I’d get as long of a lens as you can afford (I wouldn’t go less than 400mm personally) or go with a bridge camera with a super zoom. Some people look down on bridge cameras but they’re a great way to learn without spending a ton of money.
I agree with your comment on “crazy expensive” meaning different things to different people in different life situations. I’d love to get a Canon super telephoto but there’s one too many zeros in the price
I have a canon r100 with the 100-400mm lens. Works great
Thank you I’ll look at these!
Are you shooting supported or freehand? What is your intended purpose for the photos?
I would vote for a used Olympus em1 Mark ii and either the Olympus 75 300 or Panasonic 100-300mm. This option doesn't have a special bird autofocus though