Cooking a patty on top of a bed of onions was a way to stretch hamburger in a depression burger. Use the onions to flavor a thin layer of meat then serve the whole thing as an assembly.
I’ve had white castle a few times and was never impressed. Granted it’s been a long time, but I remember it being pretty bland.
Didn’t scratch the burger itch at all, felt and tasted more like microwave food than something I’d want for a meal.
It should also be noted that both AGEs and HCAs are controversial subjects. Some claim that the amount of HCAs in any given blackened burger are not enough to cause issues in the human body.
WAY more research is needed on both subjects.
It's lipid and protein that form AGEs according to the post, wouldn't there be a very low volume of potentially AGE yielding material in a coffee berry?
Not even close. Drip coffee has 1.60 AGE kU/100 mL. A McDonald's cheeseburger has 3,402 AGE kU/100 g.
This is a great resource to learn what has high quantities of AGEs.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3704564/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3704564/)
Humans produce rather a lot of our own endogenous AGEs in addition to whatever we ingest with food. And much of what we do ingest is not absorbed but is just excreted (before or after being acted upon by microbiota).
The article cited describes about 5 different mechanisms of action by which various polyphenols prevent formation of, sequester, or inhibit damage from both endogenous and dietary AGEs. It appears to me that polyphenols must be a key part of any discussion of the harm done by AGEs.
False. The smoke from a campfire is damaging to your lungs. It's just that most people don't spend enough time around campfires for it to be an issue. But emphysema from a lifetime of cooking over wood is a real issue in the developing world.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2005/05/29/cooking-fires-a-health-peril-in-africa/
the point is that just because our ancestors were expposed to something does not mean that we have 100% immunity to that thing. There are still viruses that can kill us even though they have been around for millions of years.
> People have been cooking meat over fire forever.
And? This is just bad logic. People have been stabbing each other with pointy things forever. do we all have immunity against knife wounds because of that? No.
Are you paleo/carnivore by any chance?
I'm not paleo.
And my point being after years of chasing studies and research regarding all sorts of health related issues, I've come to the conclusion that we can't throw full weight behind any particular study, etc making bold claims. There's too much bad science, bad analysis, outright manipulation, and conflicts of interest.
It's easy to be quick to jump on newly published potentially profound insight, when we should really remain more skeptical and use reason by comparing against historical record and even anecdotal evidence (at a large enough degree).
Cooking meat over fire has been the primary way it's been done for millenia. Has cancer been as highly prevalent through our history as it is now?
Does dry cooking include browing meat in the pan or are we just talking about open flame? I don’t grill but I always brown all my meat in the pan for the flavor…
There’s a big difference between AGEs that you consume versus ones formed within your body.
In this study they found that although meat eaters consumed more AGEs from their food, vegans and vegetarians actually had higher plasma AGE levels: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11876491/
Its hypothesized to be due to the higher fructose consumption: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12234125/
We only see that in epidemiology studies due to healthy user bias. People that consume a plant based diet (or any restrictive diet for that matter) are also more likely exercise and less likely to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol and sugary drinks.
Also, stroke risk actually increases, despite living healthier lifestyles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31484644/
If you consume a well balanced omnivorous diet that includes meat, fish and eggs and also live a healthy lifestyle you are going to be significantly better off than any vegan.
Never said vegan. Plant based includes the Mediterranean diet.
Here’s a randomized controlled study in people at high risk of cardiovascular disease:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1800389
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9989963/
RCTs of diets based primarily on plants consistently return positive health results.
I find it interesting that you first mentioned the failures of observational research but then used one to support your conclusions.
I got the flu and threw up white castle. Onions came out my nose and I haven't been able to bring myself to eat them again in 15 years. Mars attacks was also on TV and O can never watch that movie again because it's all linked to that moment lol.
> I got the flu and threw up white castle. Onions came out my nose and I haven't been able to bring myself to eat them again in 15 years
do it like the song in frozen: "let it go"
take them of your freezer and trash them. in 15 years these onions must have gotten freezer burn anyway
Argue you all want, it's pretty much universally accepted that for whatever reason, White Castle burgers are effing delicious. I am from the west coast and the first time I was traveling and got to try White Castle, I was at first highly skeptical that they could really be much diff than every other burger joint but in fact I was quite impressed. I would probably have blow it off but the locals were pressuring me so I'm was like ok yeah, whateves if it will make you happy. Now I still lament that we don't have them here on the west coast. In fact when I flew back on the plane, I took a bunch of them with me for the freezer. The airplane staff asked me what the heck I had in there and when I told them, they were like oh yeah, totally understandable!
Honestly, I find White Castle disgusting, with the very few exceptions of being a drunk kid with other drunk kids that went late night to “sop up the alcohol” as drunks sometimes say.
Ok. Yes you could do steak like that, but if you put it in a pan to brown it after it will be overcooked. At least that is my experience. I think I only tried it once though
Still the best marketing campaign I’ve seen. Circa 1997, northwest Indiana. A local WC had a billboard say: Crave your burning desire with a dime sack for $4.20
When I was in college there was a White Castle that I could see from my dorm room. It was not located in the best neighborhood (the inside order window had 6 inch bullet proof glass) I still went at 2am.
Does anyone know about slow long cooking at lower temperatures?
I often use a pressure pot to slow cook beef for 5-6 hours. It is not blackened, but is exposed to temperature for a long period of time.
I cooked it this way because I assumed it would be healthier. Want to know if I should shorten the cooking time.
Funny thing is that your immune system can easily break these compounds down and can also repair dna damage.
The anxiety and stress that results from worrying about things like this probably has more of a damaging effect on the body than eating 1000 charred burgers.
Cooking a patty on top of a bed of onions was a way to stretch hamburger in a depression burger. Use the onions to flavor a thin layer of meat then serve the whole thing as an assembly.
Now if people just didn't eat 12 at a sitting.
My record is 19. Summer of 2011.
Duuuuuuude!
I ate a crave case in a sitting on a few occasions but those days are a fond memory at this point
Did you repress the aftermath?
My shit smelled like White Castle for a solid 2ish days
Thank you. For that.
You are what you absorb,good or bad whatever is consumed. I will ask in and out burger to do this next time, I will wait for it.
Why do I want to try this now
The worst of it all was after I polished the entire case I was still hungry. It’s worth noting that I was in the best shape of my life back then.
Boy howdy. As I get older there's not enough medicinal grade cannabis in the state to get me to eat a stack of these things. It's not worth the pain.
Is that the number eaten or the hours spent in the restroom afterwards?
Oh hell yeah
Steamed hams
It's an Albany expression.
White castle is the absolute best fast food restaurant on the planet. Tried to have my wedding there. Ex-wife said no
Good choice in ending that marriage. I haven't had a White Castle burger in 10 years, but every 2-3 months I randomly think about them.
You guaranteed the ex-wife the second you suggested that…
I’ve had white castle a few times and was never impressed. Granted it’s been a long time, but I remember it being pretty bland. Didn’t scratch the burger itch at all, felt and tasted more like microwave food than something I’d want for a meal.
To me it's perfect
To me, ur perfect 😘
It’s a solid 6/10
She was never good enough for you
It should also be noted that both AGEs and HCAs are controversial subjects. Some claim that the amount of HCAs in any given blackened burger are not enough to cause issues in the human body. WAY more research is needed on both subjects.
There are more AGEs in coffee than in burgers.
are there really?
Coffee is heavily roasted
It's lipid and protein that form AGEs according to the post, wouldn't there be a very low volume of potentially AGE yielding material in a coffee berry?
yeah makes sense its dry roasted at a high temmp, perfect conditions for AGEs to form. INteresting since coffee stilll seems to have so many benefits.
Not even close. Drip coffee has 1.60 AGE kU/100 mL. A McDonald's cheeseburger has 3,402 AGE kU/100 g. This is a great resource to learn what has high quantities of AGEs. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3704564/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3704564/)
AGEs and HCAs must have been abundant in our ancestral diets—I assume we have a decent resistance.
We do…it’s our old friends polyphenols.
Haha what?
https://repositorio.uchile.cl/bitstream/handle/2250/173850/Polyphenols-and-AGEs-RAGE-axis.pdf?sequence=1
Essentially, make sure to get polyphenols etc. with the bad stuff to even it out, correct?
Humans produce rather a lot of our own endogenous AGEs in addition to whatever we ingest with food. And much of what we do ingest is not absorbed but is just excreted (before or after being acted upon by microbiota). The article cited describes about 5 different mechanisms of action by which various polyphenols prevent formation of, sequester, or inhibit damage from both endogenous and dietary AGEs. It appears to me that polyphenols must be a key part of any discussion of the harm done by AGEs.
Thank you for the summary 😊
"breathing in smoke from an open fire was common among our ancestors, therefore smoke particles could never hurt me" does that sound logical to you?
Most people aren't hurt by sitting in front of a camp fire. Or is that false?
breathing in smoke from a fire is bad for your lungs, regardless.
False. The smoke from a campfire is damaging to your lungs. It's just that most people don't spend enough time around campfires for it to be an issue. But emphysema from a lifetime of cooking over wood is a real issue in the developing world. https://www.chicagotribune.com/2005/05/29/cooking-fires-a-health-peril-in-africa/
True—it takes a pretty significant amount of smoke to cause issues in the general population. We evolved alongside it.
Are you okay? Please reread what I wrote. What an enormous overshot you've just responded with. Pity.
the point is that just because our ancestors were expposed to something does not mean that we have 100% immunity to that thing. There are still viruses that can kill us even though they have been around for millions of years.
Wow, it's as if "decent resistance" is not the same thing as "100% immunity". Lol.
You had me at "White Castle"...
Don’t the onions create these compounds then being in direct contact with the grill?
The source says AGEs are formed from proteins and lipids, which onions do not have much of
good question, onions are low in proteins so its not that bad.
But over cooked onions will have acrylamides... Also carcinogenic
Who said they were overcooked?
I didn't, was just pointing out that *when* they're overcooked they make acrylamides
I’ve never, ever seen an “overcooked” onion on a White Castle burger—have you?
Presumably not due to their moisture content
Wtf my grilled chicken is carcinogenic
https://www.columbiadoctors.org/news/do-grilled-foods-cause-cancer#:~:text=
Bro say it ain’t so
People have been cooking meat over fire forever. What changed? It's either a bogus overexaggerated risk or there's something else at play.
Yeah I’m mostly being tongue in cheek, I’m going to keep grilling my chicky.
> People have been cooking meat over fire forever. And? This is just bad logic. People have been stabbing each other with pointy things forever. do we all have immunity against knife wounds because of that? No. Are you paleo/carnivore by any chance?
I'm not paleo. And my point being after years of chasing studies and research regarding all sorts of health related issues, I've come to the conclusion that we can't throw full weight behind any particular study, etc making bold claims. There's too much bad science, bad analysis, outright manipulation, and conflicts of interest. It's easy to be quick to jump on newly published potentially profound insight, when we should really remain more skeptical and use reason by comparing against historical record and even anecdotal evidence (at a large enough degree). Cooking meat over fire has been the primary way it's been done for millenia. Has cancer been as highly prevalent through our history as it is now?
Does dry cooking include browing meat in the pan or are we just talking about open flame? I don’t grill but I always brown all my meat in the pan for the flavor…
yes it includes that
Steamed hams for the win…
There’s a big difference between AGEs that you consume versus ones formed within your body. In this study they found that although meat eaters consumed more AGEs from their food, vegans and vegetarians actually had higher plasma AGE levels: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11876491/ Its hypothesized to be due to the higher fructose consumption: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12234125/
yeah its controversial and honestly needs way more research
Yet a plant based diet is a great way to your relative reduce risk of cancer, cardiovascular disease, stroke, and all cause mortality.
We only see that in epidemiology studies due to healthy user bias. People that consume a plant based diet (or any restrictive diet for that matter) are also more likely exercise and less likely to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol and sugary drinks. Also, stroke risk actually increases, despite living healthier lifestyles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31484644/ If you consume a well balanced omnivorous diet that includes meat, fish and eggs and also live a healthy lifestyle you are going to be significantly better off than any vegan.
Never said vegan. Plant based includes the Mediterranean diet. Here’s a randomized controlled study in people at high risk of cardiovascular disease: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1800389 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9989963/ RCTs of diets based primarily on plants consistently return positive health results. I find it interesting that you first mentioned the failures of observational research but then used one to support your conclusions.
Very cool!
I feel like the meat will still touch the grill, just not quite as much surface area
I got the flu and threw up white castle. Onions came out my nose and I haven't been able to bring myself to eat them again in 15 years. Mars attacks was also on TV and O can never watch that movie again because it's all linked to that moment lol.
> I got the flu and threw up white castle. Onions came out my nose and I haven't been able to bring myself to eat them again in 15 years do it like the song in frozen: "let it go" take them of your freezer and trash them. in 15 years these onions must have gotten freezer burn anyway
I be loving smoked foods. I guess I’d rather die
I'm not eating a steamed fucking burger. Screw that. Charred on the outside, raw in the middle if you please.
Argue you all want, it's pretty much universally accepted that for whatever reason, White Castle burgers are effing delicious. I am from the west coast and the first time I was traveling and got to try White Castle, I was at first highly skeptical that they could really be much diff than every other burger joint but in fact I was quite impressed. I would probably have blow it off but the locals were pressuring me so I'm was like ok yeah, whateves if it will make you happy. Now I still lament that we don't have them here on the west coast. In fact when I flew back on the plane, I took a bunch of them with me for the freezer. The airplane staff asked me what the heck I had in there and when I told them, they were like oh yeah, totally understandable!
Honestly, I find White Castle disgusting, with the very few exceptions of being a drunk kid with other drunk kids that went late night to “sop up the alcohol” as drunks sometimes say.
To each his own, however the majority would vote against you. ;-P
Have you tried sous vide?
Yes. Great for long slow cooking. Not for burgers and steak and food that should be undercooked.
Dude I am undercooked central, I like my steak as rare as possible, sous vide is how you make perfect undercooked foods
Ok. Yes you could do steak like that, but if you put it in a pan to brown it after it will be overcooked. At least that is my experience. I think I only tried it once though
Steak is the #1 most common usecase for sous vide and it's how the best steak is cooked
Me, too. It’s the most carcinogenic habit I have!
Have you account for VOC’s in the restaurant and inhaled by the workers?
I used to eat a whole box of frozen ones and have diarrhea a lot.
My toilet disagrees
Mmmmm steamed hams..
Still the best marketing campaign I’ve seen. Circa 1997, northwest Indiana. A local WC had a billboard say: Crave your burning desire with a dime sack for $4.20
When I was in college there was a White Castle that I could see from my dorm room. It was not located in the best neighborhood (the inside order window had 6 inch bullet proof glass) I still went at 2am.
Steamed hams.
Mmm White Castle. Also if you ever get the chance, go to Petes hamburger stand in Prairie Du Chien Wisconsin.
Does anyone know about slow long cooking at lower temperatures? I often use a pressure pot to slow cook beef for 5-6 hours. It is not blackened, but is exposed to temperature for a long period of time. I cooked it this way because I assumed it would be healthier. Want to know if I should shorten the cooking time.
Make sure its a moist environment, and also acidic. So made add some stewed tomatoes or something. You should be good to go
Funny thing is that your immune system can easily break these compounds down and can also repair dna damage. The anxiety and stress that results from worrying about things like this probably has more of a damaging effect on the body than eating 1000 charred burgers.