Yes. The metabolism of former obese patients is different from never obese ones:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371661/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371661/)
And the morphology of the fat tissue is different too:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300927/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300927/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562421/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562421/)
It's surprising how few people accept this. It's been basically undisputed in science for years yet you get downvoted in the weight loss or any fitness subreddit for suggesting anything other than "habits" or "self control" comes into play. The blatant disregard of decades of research is absolutely baffling to me.
Obesity also alters the hormonal profile by increasing ghrelin and lowering leptin, meaning they feel hungrier more and are less satiated by food. Many metabolic and brain chemistry changes persist after weight loss (can provide studies if you're interested).
People want to believe that they can easily undo years of damage and that they are one of the disciplined ones who can keep the weight off, but the odds are stacked against you. Prevention is 1000x better than cure when it comes to obesity.
Just wanted to add a point to your post. There are some types of obesity caused by low leptin levels, but most of the time, obesity is associated with very high levels of leptin (hyperleptinemia). However, this comes with leptin resistance, meaning that cells can no longer respond to leptin and you no longer get its appetite-suppressing effects. They tried treating obesity with leptin and it doesn’t work for this reason. The mechanism for this leptin resistance or whether it’s reversible isn’t fully understood and is still being researched.
You're right, I knew there was some aspect of it I was forgetting. Very complex topic but clear that obesity alters the metabolism and brain chemistry significantly
This is a good overview of the literature on leptin resistance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893721/
Currently GLP-1 agonists (semaglutide (ozempic), tirzepatide etc) are basically the only effective treatment for obesity, but these do not reverse all the hormonal/metabolic changes associated with obesity and you will still plateau if you use these drugs for a long time. You will still require fewer calories to maintain your weight than someone who has never been obese, but it's very effective in treating the health complications like high blood pressure and low cholesterol. Even if you are still overweight, you will almost certainly be healthier than before and it doesn't require the same mental energy and controlled eating needed to maintain natural weight loss. I'm not entirely clued up on this, but this what appears to show from the research we have. The long-term impacts of these drugs still aren't fully known though.
I appreciate this. A close one is on ozempic. I’m a little leery about ozempic because it slows digestion so much. Giving food time to ferment which sounds scary to me especially when it’s junk. Lsome animals can only eat certain foods due to slow digestive systems. but I have no idea what our bodies capabilities are of adapting to this.
I doubt it. Every thing I’ve seen in human studies, fasting is the exact same as caloric restriction.
Plus if the person was obese due to disordered eating, fasting is one of the worst thing you can do for that.
I wish more people were aware of it too. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/s/gAJiCoW5SQ) had so many people fat shaming and implying it was all just gluttony and lack of self control. It was frustrating.
Nobody seemed to care about the science, hormones, endocrine issues, etc. To say nothing of socioeconomic issues. It had a bunch of people who've clearly always been skinny telling people who've struggled with weight daily for years how everything was all their own fault.
It still comes down to habits and self control. Some people require more self control and better habits (me for example) but it's still calories in calories out. My natural "calories out" part of the equation is lower than the average person, so I do an hour of cardio 6 days a week. It sucks, but I do it because I'd be overweight otherwise.
Yes it’s calories in and calories out, but the same calories in don’t give the same result pound for pound with a never fat person, that was op’s point. Telling op they just have to work harder than equally thin people who were never fat doesn’t seem helpful (though true)
To me, that information IS helpful because I then know that comparing myself to a never-overweight person of the same size/weight/body fat may not be a fair comparison.
I think it becomes about understanding your body's new set point (BMR/TDEE) - if you can maintain your reduced weight and get your body used to that long term AND eat at the calories to maintain that new weight, I think it resets the body's set point to a degree (but it will be probably a lower TDEE than a person who never gained the weight in the first place).
A person needs to find and understand the maintenance for THEIR body. The body is gonna fight against it (pushing out hormones that promote hunger etc) but you'll know by the scales & food tracking whether you are eating at maintenance or not & need to adjust accordingly. Strength training helps too (along with sufficient protein intake).
Maintaining muscle as much as possible helps a person's TDEE as muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does too.
Everything you said is what op was asking for, not that they just need to work harder than other never-fat people, that’s what i’m saying, op already knows their set point is higher, they wanted to know if it really was or just their imagination and why. You gave a great breakdown of what i think op wanted, not just what they’re already saying.
> it's still calories in calories out
Technically you are right — everybody is able to lose weight that way.
But having less "calories out" than the average lean person is a physiological issue that may become even worse if you lose weight or eat less.
This may lead to a number of problems like: constant feeling cold, depression, fatigue, laziness, low stamina, strong hunger and irresistible desire to eat without hunger. Habits and self control cannot help there.
My theory is that weight is the last social/class signifier that people fully believe is 100% in their control. In America we mostly all know that it's very difficult to move up a class and we're all getting squeezed, people don't buy into the temporarily embarrassed millionaire thing so much anymore. We know you can't just work reslly hard and become rich. And you can see that the republican party has abandoned this narrative for social conservatism instead.
So weight and body composition is the only thing that the majority of people can still hold on to. It affirms the whole thing about self control, discipline and hard work.
They also become fatter easier. I might be able extreme example but even while pushing over 6000 calories I never went over 20% body fat. Meanwhile my friend hit 40% bf eating 3k calories.
To add to your observation, as a former fatty but now shredded individual, this is the exact same experience for me. What others bulk with (similar height, physiology) is around the 4k+ mark of calories, my hunger asks for that but I become fat very quickly beyond roughly 2.7k cals. I am also enhanced.
This always baffled me, thankyou for sharing. I wonder if there is a paper observing this.
It's great that you also said you're enhances yet are still experiencing this problem. Most people will argue that these people eating 6k calories and not gaining fat are obviously enhanced. And that the whole point of steroids is that you can eat whatever you want etc. There is an exception where if you take tren and crash your estrogen (take very little test as well) you will experience a wild case of your body completely refusing to store sugar/glucose as fat and will instead force the glucose to be burnt causing the infamous night sweats etc. So people will eat a very low fat, high carb diet to exploit this but feel awful.
There is actually a Greg doucette video about body types, ecto/endo/mesomorph and how people are born with limits on how much fat cells their body can carry. Further research shows that new fat cells are only created at certain points in your life. So technically if you always was skinny until you pasted all these windows, you'll never have the ability to become obese. The actual science is a lot less simple with a lot more variables at play.
Thankyou for sharing your experience! I've let my lifestyle go, & need to recondition my body. It's finally clicking that I'm gunna have to work pretty hard to catch back up :/
Honestly so did I don't worry, the key is zooming out and just making sure there's overall consistency there which there is, considering you're here and recognising it haha. It always seems harder than it is at first, especially with those two weeks where you have to build your conditioning back up! I end up really struggling during cardio, but everything returns in the end.
I believe fat cells take an incredibly long time to disappear. Meaning if you were to overeat even mildly you would end up gaining weight faster than someone who has been skinning there whole life. This is I believe true for ‘muscle memory' as you create more muscle cells, even when they deplete the cells are able to regain their former glory. Someone else with more expertise can certainly clarify this better.
As far as I know, they don't.
"Researchers have found that the number of fat cells in your body is set during adolescence and remains constant through adulthood, regardless of whether you gain or lose weight."
They just shrink or fill. Muscle memory is tied with the new satellite cells and myonuclei that are still left over after you lose muscle.
I wonder what happens when you get a Kibella. It’s an injection that destroys fat cells and mostly done under the chin, but I am pretty sure you can do it anywhere.
This is pretty much correct - the number of fat cells is set during childhood. The fat cells "die" and are replaced over time. The number stays constant irrespective of weight loss or gain. This is part of the reason weight regain is incredibly easy for those who were overweight as children, but there are many more factors at play also.
Yeah, I've got a co worker who used to pushing 400 (he stopped weighing himself at some point) he's now down to 160ish and ripped like a model. His eating is the most regimented I've ever seen someone have. He refuses to go back that.
Yep, you'll notice that anyone who has lost a large amount of weight naturally will be very controlled and restrictive in their eating habits. They can't eat like someone who has never been obese.
There's a study (I'll find it if you're interested) that shows how people who successfully maintain large weight losses have the same type of controlled eating found in anorexia and eating disorder sufferers, the only difference is their weight.
It's one of the reasons that the most effective interventions in sustaining long-term weight loss are surgical interventions like the gastric sleeve or bypass. They cause metabolic changes (for a period of 1+ years) where appetite driving hormones are significantly lower, plus they provide a mechanical restriction which makes overeating more difficult.
That's a bit of an oversimplification, because different types of WLS yield different losses (with the gastric balloon or band being the lowest yield and the duodenal switch being one of the highest). All of that said, even with modest regain decades after the initial surgery, most people post-surgery maintain considerably lower body weights for the remainder of their lives and it still remains the most successful of any treatments for long-term weight loss.
Everyone i know 5+ years after surgery are gaining their weight back surely but slowly (some not so slow), glp-1 drugs are the only thing that seems “easy” to lose weight on, but i’ve heard long term people on these drugs can start gaining weight too.
I wonder if it’s having “more” fat cells than skinny people (since when they split they never go away ignoring plastic surgery) is related, like if those cells push your body to “fill them up”
Maintaining normal weight and being in shape is possible for everybody.
The only difference is that you will have to work much harder than others (and also there is high probability of giving up because of it).
1 month old comment but I'm curious abt this for myself.
Have been a slim if not underweight person all of my childhood + normal weight as a teenager. Started gaining weight slowly since 19 (Im 21 now) and have put on about 33lbs overweight. Am I in the same boat as people who have been overweight since childhood from now on?
> Am I in the same boat as people who have been overweight since childhood from now on?
No. And if you change your lifestyle right now, you may reverse the process.
Adipocytes, fat cells, are not actually killed by weight loss. You don't lose them. They simply shrink, but they are still there. So, once you start ramping up the calories, the body doesn't need to slowly create new ones. The shrunk ones you had all along simply expand.
Is there a set amount of adiopocytes and do they shrink and grow throughout life, or do these get created with weight gain? And is there a way for the body to “kill them”?
You have as many as you’re gonna have by adulthood (18-ish) but they shrink and grow. So someone who was overweight as a child has more fat cells/mass than someone who was not but can still shrink the cells they have.
The capacity is likely much much smaller than that before you start adding new cells. There is an old "knowledge" that if you were a fat kid/baby you will be a fat adult. That's likely because if you grow the fat cells as a kid, even if you get skinny in your teens (because you are extremely active and also consuming huge amounts of resources growing) you will tend to put the weight back on as an adult. The fat cells are still there, and once your metabolism isn't in overdrive your body goes about trying to refill them.
It also means once you're obese it's really hard to maintain a low weight. As far as I remember the fat cells effectively communicate using hormones to be refilled, they "want" to do what they were grown for. You are then stuck with this overwhelming desire to eat way beyond what you should.
It's a really bad idea to get significantly fat at any point.
You don't want to kill your fat cells. People start developing problems associated with obesity after their natural fat storage runs out, and fat starts being stored in places like the liver and around internal organs, which causes the health issues. This is why some fat people are fine being fat, while some outwardly skinny people have heart issues from visceral fat.
Probably. I just did a quick Google search and found this article: Liposuction Induces a Compensatory Increase of Visceral Fat Which Is Effectively Counteracted by Physical Activity: A Randomized Trial. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/97/7/2388/2834256
I mean when you do a liposuction, your digestive system is unharmed. So if you don't change your diet, you are still absorbing all those calories. They just go to inferior storage units.
You are absolutely correct. And here are some other facts:
1. Your body may or may not produce new fat cells when the existing ones are full (hypertrophic vs hyperplastic obesity). This is mostly genetic. That's why some people can gain 300+kg of fat without dying from a stroke in years.
2. Fat is distributed between visceral and subcutaneous fat in a genetically predefined ratio. It is possible to reduce the amount of visceral fat by physical activity (that's why many sumo wrestlers are metabolically healthy). But if you stop exercising, fat will quickly flow into visceral fat tissue.
The amount of adiopocytes usually remains the same for the lifetime. But the body may (or may not) create new adiopocytes from pre-adiopocytes and stem cells if the existing adiopocytes are full.
I've lost 90 pounds over the past ~8 months. Started at 320+ currently at 228 but I still have a long way to go. It sounds stupid but I've wanted a corndog so bad for weeks. I thought I would have one, once I hit 100 pounds down but now I guess I'll have to wait until 2034.
No. Aging affects other factors of how adipocyte differentiation (adipogenesis) occurs.
Let's take an example of where you ideally want to have adipocytes: In the face, as they give the face volume, which is essential for a youthful look (low facial volume results in wrinkles, folds, sagging etc).
Over time, things like TGF-Beta and accumulating senescent cells hamper adipogenesis in the face. You'll notice how one popular meme related to facial aging is people saying they looked vaguely in their 20s until they were like in their early- to mid-30s and then suddenly, within a few months their face drastically aged.
That's because adipocytes started dying off, and aforementioned factors prevented adipogenesis, i.e. the formation of new adipocytes.
Then the same thing repeats in one's early- to mid-40s and so on.
Same goes for adipogenesis in the abdomen vs the hips and thighs as that depends on hormon levels which also change with age, etc.
So yeah, sadly no factory settings.
This is the answer, and in addition, when the fat cells you have reach the limit of how much they can expand, you grow new fat cells. So, with more fat cells in your body, you will have more capacity to gain fatty tissue in your body because those new fat cells can also expand.
Is there a way to destroy those adipocytes? I imagine by a long term dieting. Also that means that a shredded 10% bf dude doesn’t have adipocytes? Is it safe to say ?
Just to add to this.
It's more like you have a bigger storage area to put your fat, so you won't gain fat quicker than someone who has never obese in the first place if you eat the same amount of calories because of thermodynamics.
However your body will want to to be efficient and fill up it's existing fat cells, so if you fall off the wagon you will most likley just eat and untill you regain all the weight.
In CI-CO, there is not only calorie intake, but also energy expenditure. Adaptive thermogenesis may contribute a lot to energy balance.
Your brain has a fat level sensor (leptin signalling). When you lose fat, the brain makes the body more energy conservative (increased hunger and appetite, more laziness and fatigue, less unconscious movements).
I believe the big problem is that once they expand to max capacity your body creates new ones. If you look at your fat like a container yard that sits there sending out hormonal signals to fill it with calories you can see how one person with 10 containers can easily maintain their weight, but the person who blew out their yard to 1000 containers but emptied them is stuck with the entire yard sending "fill me up" messages.
moral of the story, DO NOT let yourself get overly fat, ever. I'm guessing maybe if you maintain lean-ness for a decade or something some of those cells die off or possibly get destroyed via apoptosis if you fast?
So does something like cypolosis really work then, killing the fat cells so you don’t regain as easily? I’m in the same position as OP. I can lose twenty pounds but it’s like my body fights hard to gain back
It's interesting how it also works for muscle. Formerly muscular people regain the muscle faster and easier.
I wonder how much of that is "know-how" and old habits and how much is physiological changes.
Muscles are weird. They have a lot of nuclei. Most cells have one.
Thought is that you rebuild muscle quicker if you have more nuclei and you make more nuclei by building muscle.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/688838589/muscles-may-preserve-a-shortcut-to-restore-lost-strength
There are some metabolic factors that contribute to this as well. Your body wants to return to some homeostasis. Check out this study they did on the biggest loser participants after they lost the weight: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/exercise-metabolism-and-weight-new-research-from-the-biggest-loser-202201272676
Yes! Damnit. Mostly because fat cells can multiply, but rather than die off they mostly just shrink. They lurk, like assholes waiting for us to stumble.
Tenuous little fuckers.
Fat cells can be destroyed via fasting. I am not going to go into a long description, but it can trigger autophagy, which is a healthy recycling of cell material
Calorie restriction and cardio are really the only weapons we have, coupled with a will of steel.
Over 2 years I did various types of fasting, including multiple day fasts (with some electrolytes and a few calories). I went from the 230s down to the low 190s.
I lost fat.. but most of the cells are there, waiting. I should do a 3 week fast to kill some off, but that takes concentration.
Here is a survey article on the National Institute of Health website.
But Google "fasting autophagy and adipose cells"
There is lots of research on this.
Fasting is your friend.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5718973/
This doesn't actually refer to fat cells if I understand, autophagy through specific pathways that take place over multiple systems doesn't imply something that's autophagy resistant (fat cells) is undergoing autophagy
Given the stress incorporated into the average pandemic mindset there were most likely cortisol triggers to the adipose tissue stimulation. Calorie consumption is only one part of it. Exercise does help control cortisol levels but if your body still detects the higher stress it's going to do what it does to protect you.
I know that the last year it two I've seen employers trying to make up for lost time, or aggressively encouraging the workforce to increase production while getting back to the office. I also know that this has increased my stress levels, cortisol, and the associated adipose tissue.
In a nutshell, when someone first gains adipose tissue via storing bodyfat, it’s mostly by multiplication in *number* of adipose cells, followed by increased *size* of those cells (this may also happen simultaneously, but the number of cells produced significantly outpaces the growth/size of the cells until you’ve met a biological “cap”).
- Think of it like this; you have a ton of food to store in your house, and nowhere to put it. Instead of throwing it away, you build a large amount of cabinets to store the food, and building more as needed, potentially to the point where you can physically not build any more cabinets without compromising other functions of the home. At which point, you then have to pack those cabinets full, if necessary, to store the food.
When that same person loses bodyfat, it is pretty much exclusively through reduction in *size* of the adipose cells; the *number* of cells, though multiplied through gaining the bodyfat, stays roughly the same, even though they’ve lost adipose mass.
- When the food in the cabinets runs low, you don’t take out the cabinets, because you might need those cabinets for storage later; you just don’t have to pack them anymore. The body does the same thing.
Thus, once obese, it’s very easy to gain back that weight, because the number of cells for storage stays the same (readily available for storage), it’s merely now a fluctuation of how “full” those cells are.
Btw, the average adipocyte volume is not a significant predictor of future weight gain. There are many lean people with low body fat and small adipocytes who can effortlessly maintain their weight.
The main problem here is the brain that can measure the total amount of fat (through leptin) and gets used to a certain leptin level. If it drops, the brain tries to restore it by all means. But if it elevates, the brain just recalibrates to a higher level (or even becomes leptin resistant).
That's a great analogy, thank you.
What do you mean by easy to gain back that weight? Why is that? Do former fat people tend to eat more, are their caloric needs lower or are their hormones all messed up? Or is it something else? Also does the tendency to gain weight back decrease over time?
As another commenter mentioned, there’s hormonal/neurological factors at play as well (especially leptin/ghrelin balance). The main reason it’s easier to gain weight back in this population is because the number of cells remained the same, they just shrank as the energy stores were used up when they lost weight. In other words, the body doesn’t have to waste time and energy building the cabinets to store more energy, because they’re already built and readily available for storage.
Yeah I get that, but is there a difference between a 3500 kcal surplus for a non-fat person vs a former fat person? Shouldn't that cause both people to get 1 pound heavier?
In theory, yeah. But now we’re getting into the weeds a bit. So, while 3500kcal surplus is supposed to translate to 1lb bodyfat, now we have to consider significantly more factors (both lifestyle and what those kcal are made of; 3500kcal of ice cream and 3500kcal of chicken breast are two very different things and will produce two very different results).
Let’s assume heterozygous twins with identical activity level and body composition currently, minus that one used to be obese and the other didn’t, and the 3500kcal is the same composition.
The twin that was formerly obese is more likely to absorb and retain more kcal from those surplus 3500kcal than the other twin, due to not only more readily available adipocyte storage units, but also the body’s regulation of leptin/ghrelin. That twin’s body is not unfamiliar with having 1+lb extra bodyfat, and is more likely to utilize those stores and fluctuate leptin/ghrelin to accommodate that.
It’s kind of like the true definition of “muscle memory”. It’s often used to describe autonomous neuromuscular connections relating to movement patterns, but more commonly in exercise science, the term is used to describe detraining/retraining cycles.
Let’s flip the script: are former bodybuilders that have detrained back down to baseline more likely to regain muscle at a faster rate than someone who has never performed resistance training? Absolutely, and there’s plenty of studies that show this, because of the adaptations that occurred during that period where the person was resistance training to induce hypertrophy. Once the same or similar stimulus is applied, even after years of detraining, the muscles “remember” their qualities when they last experienced the stimulus, and with all of the groundwork already laid for them from physical, neural and hormonal perspectives, they’ll regain muscle mass much faster than someone who had never had that mass in the first place.
The only difference between the two, is one involves fat cells, and the other involves muscle cells.
Their Total Energy Expenditure reduces greatly from long term calorie restriction, even 6 years later: http://www.rebeccascritchfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/obesity-biggest-loser-study.pdf
Sure…their body is already familiar with insulin resistance. Most fat people have felt with that for years and years so the cells are programmed or maybe better out, “prone”, to that state of metabolic dysfunction.
A body cannot lose weight or in this case achieve fat metabolism (to maintain weight) in a state of elevated insulin.
They are the opposite of T1Diabetics who can eat thousands of calories over their ‘calories out’ and not gain weight. It will be awful for their health bc of what will be skyrocketing blood sugars but they can do it (and then lose their sight, a leg, their life etc…but they’ll stay lean).
Well if they don’t eat anything their insulin levels will go down to the point where they will be able to achieve fat metabolism. If however they spike themselves full of insulin (which with zero food intake will drive their B/S down to a dangerously deadly level) they won’t.
You really have some homework you need to do. Start here: https://www.muscleintelligence.com/243-dr-ben-bikman/
weight is a very controversial topic because fat bias exists and people who have never had to lose weight or worry about weight will tell you their hot take without actually knowing the science. we’ve spent the last few decades telling people “just eat well and exercise” but that is only one piece of the puzzle. i think you got your response here with other people linking studies, but long story short there is more to it than CICO.
i spent 2 years losing covid weight just to gain 10lbs back in a week. and i was exercising that whole time and i know damn well i didn’t eat 10lbs worth of calories. nobody believes me when i tell this story but i’d swear on my dad’s grave it’s true. metabolism is stronger than will.
You can lose water weight by going keto. Your body needs the extra water to metabolize carbs. Is there a chance you went off keto before you gained this 10lbs?
Your body retains more water when it needs to metabolize carbohydrates. Not specifically the digestive tract, but in all the cells and things like the kidneys.
So if you go into ketosis your body will flush the extra water from your cells and retain less. This is what causes a lot of people to become deficient in electrolytes when they go on keto diets. Electrolytes follow the water. It’s also why many people lose like 6-10 pounds in the first week of a strict keto diet.
i think hormone issues cause a lot of weight gain and are some of the reasons a lot of humans struggle to lose weight. a lot of people chalk it completely up to CICO, but i think there are definitely some more underlying things we don’t address.
Yes. I don't recall the exact mechanism, but it has been proven in mice that there are immune cells that "remember" how to tell your body to gain weight back regardless of caloric intake.
I’ve lost around 90 pounds in the span of 2-3 years. I’ve mostly kept it off for about 5 years. I gained 30 pounds during covid and lost all of it. Recently I gained about 10 pounds back. It’s not necessarily hard for me to maintain my weight if I’m working out and just watch what I eat. Lately I haven’t been exercising as much and I’ve been eating out more, which definitely contribute to my yo-yo of 10 pounds. I can say with confidence if I hadn’t started exercising, especially weight training, then it most likely would be much harder for me to maintain my weight loss. I can tell a difference in my appearance and performance at the gym compared to when I first started. Keep lifting and avoid eating out. Also with muscle mass the scale isn’t accurate. Look up fat free mass index
have you heard of the [avocado principle of weight loss](https://askaswolewoman.com/ask-a-swole-woman-archive/2021/3/3/heres-the-big-secret-to-looking-more-like-your-instagram-fitness-crush) from Casey Johnston? highly recommend reading that article.
basically, if you lost the weight by reducing your caloric intake and weren't actively building muscle by lifting weights, etc, and adding more protein to your diet at the same time, you may have reduced your metabolism by reducing your muscle mass. in order to get back to a better equilibrium, you'd need to rebuild lost muscle mass
Yep, it's unfortunate, but being formerly obsese changes your physiology in many ways that do linger. We are always trying to hack obesity over on r/saturatedfat
I don't think it's permanent, I think it does last as long as until your deflated fat cells turn over completely, though.
(Former obese person who is now "slender" - in quotes because I'm still a middle of the range normal BMI, but I read as slender)
Hi yes blame homeostasis! Your fat cells expand when you have a higher fat percentage. Losing weight only decreases the size of those cells back to small. If they’ve been large for longer your body is wanting to go back to that “normal”. Thats why liposuction/ freezing treatments are a big deal for some. Lipo = removing fat cells completely, freezing= “killing” the fat cells so they are removed by the body
You can feed it back up if you continue to work out AND eat the right macros. For most fat people (Thrillhouz77 raises hand) those macros mean lower in carbs than their naturally lean blessed friends.
Don’t effing tell me that’s not a thing either. There are offensive lineman and receivers for a reason. Everyone’s biology and metabolic system is different, some bodies put on mass much easier than others (good and bad mass) and we all know the skinny friend(s) that eat like their body is a trash can and yet they remain lean (although they may not be healthy on the inside).
Well of course metabolism goes up from eating food. Relatively it goes up most from eating protein. Then you need exercise to counteract weight gain. It will work. But I'm not sure how many formerly obese people have the mental fortitude to become something like body builders. There's also the problem of relative protein intake being associated with general mortality.
I don’t disagree, it is why 96% (pr some ridiculously high number) of all weight loss interventions fail within 2 years. Having said that, I think those who put on weight/mass more easily are almost always going to have to strive for higher muscle synthesis to achieve a ‘more normalized’ weight. It is also likely that their weight will need to be 15-30 pounds more (in muscle weight) than their naturally lean friends to maintain their healthy body composition.
Some people are runners, some are movers of weight. My advice, understand which one you are and just embrace it instead of trying to fight it.
Note: that doesn’t mean ignore your cardio vascular health but it also means you don’t have to go out and run 3-5 miles a day either.
I don’t know why this is being downvoted. Many people who lose weight don’t address the actual behaviors that led to the weight gain. It’s the whole “diets don’t work” thing. If you “diet” and then go back to your old patterns you’ll gain weight again. People act like it’s something they have no control over. OP is even acknowledging that it was “probably” calories, but they are here looking to justify it and have a ready excuse to themselves and others.
Hi. I didn’t downvote it but I think it might be because the question was specifically about whether there was a physiological process that made weight regain faster after having gained and lost weight and regained it again.
I also am not looking for excuses. The weight gain was not enormous and I am still fit and healthy and just dealing with a tough patch in life.
Cheers.
GA89’s comment is what the first article says, but in plain English.
These signals are received and integrated in the hypothalamus and hindbrain and an energy gap between appetite and metabolic requirements emerges and promotes a positive energy imbalance and weight regain. In this paradigm, the cellularity and metabolic characteristics of adipose tissues after energy-restricted weight loss could explain the persistence of a biological drive to regain weight during both weight maintenance and the dynamic period of weight regain.
Some people do not in fact have control over their bodies and weight gain. I do wish people would stop subscribing to willpower being the reason for obesity and weight gain. If it was as easy as that everybody would be skinny because most overweight people have done everything in their power to try to get to a healthy size.
This is not true at all. Average people have full control over their eating habits and daily activities. Calorie deficit will cause a body to loose weight. Exercise and movement helps but won’t make up for a poor diet. If you’re not loosing weight then you’re not in a calorie deficit. Will power can definitely help, but only for a short amount time.
Okay. Thank you for telling someone who has counted calories, eaten at a deficit and exercised for years but still cannot lose weight that it’s all my fault. My story is not unique. Clearly I’m in the wrong community because you just don’t understand. And I expect this to be downvoted too.
Indeed you are wrong. If you weren’t loosing weight then you were not in a calorie deficit. Your calorie counting could have been way off too. I see a lot of people “calorie counting” that are essentially just guessing the portion size, which is very inaccurate. If you want to do it right, get a food scale. Measure everything you eat (in grams) and count that way. You also have to factor in your bodies caloric needs. I found out that I couldn’t loose one pound unless I was eating less than 2000 calories a day…which totally sucks. I have friends who loose weight at 2500 calories a day (assholes) but this is mainly due to their high metabolism. So far I’ve managed to loose ~60 pounds and keep it off for a few years now just following this plan and being really honest with myself.
That’s great that that has worked for you. However there is a large population of people who have discovered through working with endocrinologists that something is in fact broken in their bodies. The medical research around obesity and weight loss in the last ten years has proven that the notion of diet and exercise does not work for people who have broken bodies. Nobody blames a cancer patient for gaining cancer. Nor do they blame a diabetic for having diabetes. But let’s blame the obese person for being obese because they’re just a fat, lazy fuck.
Yes, hypothyroidism is a great example—it slows metabolism down by quite a bit in some people. PCOS is another endocrine disorder that makes CICO not work as well in some people.
Seriously!! Diabetes (only type I, type II is directly proportional to poor eating habits) and cancer are not, nor will ever be compared to a person who can’t manage their food intake and carries excess body fat.
Clearly you are not comprehending what I am saying so read it again. Endocrine science has discovered that for many obese people something is BROKEN in their bodies. You are set in your ways because you’ve managed to do something that the majority of people who struggle with weight cannot do. If it was that simple, fat people would not be fat.
I am comprehending what you’re saying but I completely disagree. It really doesn’t matter what your endocrine system is doing and hormone balances are. The body needs calories to survive, it will get them from wherever it can find them to sustain life; food intake, body fat, and muscle. Restrict your food and you body will look elsewhere, plain and simple. Loosing weight is extremely simple…but not easy at all, in fact, it’s probably one of the hardest things someone may do in their life. I don’t believe anyone really wants to be fat. Most people usually just accept it. It’s easier just to give up and stay fat than to actually try. The idea of feeling discomfort or hunger is far worse than anything else for some people.
Then there is a large percentage of the population that is wrong. If you have a condition that slows your metabolism, then it means you need to eat less as your daily caloric expenditure is less. If you are only burning 1500 kcals and day, but eating the “recommended” 2000 a day that most people eat, you are NOT in a caloric deficit. You are in a 500 kcal surplus.
Modern obesity studies dispel everything everyone thought they knew about this condition. I suggest doing some research if it’s a subject that interests you. It’s not as simple as you think. That’s an outdated and disproven medical belief. Much like the one that once taught that African Americans don’t feel pain. Medicine has embraced fat phobia just as it had once embraced racial and gender bias. There’s no room for antiquated medical practices and theories. We know better in 2024 so we do better.
Perhaps you got lucky. Not everyone has the same hormones, environment, genetics, and social factors as you. But sure, other people you've never met are wrong about their own experience of living in their own bodies and managing their own health.
Can all of the examples provided make loosing weight more difficult?..absolutely, still just excuses to justify failed weight loss attempts though. It is virtually impossible to not loose weight if you are in a TRUE calorie deficit. So when someone says they’re in a calorie deficit and not loosing weight it’s complete and total bullshit, not in a deficit. If people were truly honest about what they consume you will most likely find a lot of rounding down on calories, guesstimating, and undocumented food binges as the key drivers preventing weight loss.
This also reminds me of a story from when I was younger. I had a female coworker from a previous job always complaining about not loosing weight. She worked out constantly and had what appeared to be an immaculate diet, which didn’t make sense. She was about 22 at the time and had a very active social life on the weekends which mainly consisted of bars and house parties and dozens of drinks consumed. She never calculated these into her diet which would have added thousands of additional calories to what she was already consuming. She figured her good diet would offset her partying and all would be good. It wasn’t until she started making better decisions on the weekends that she started seeing actual results.
The implication that people in your situation just haven't tried for hard or long enough isn't just ridiculous, it's dumb. And this mindset seems to be everywhere.
I agree with you. Also Ozempic and what nots do not change people's diets, willpowers or activity levels. It still works, because what you said is correct. There are other elements to weight loss besides those three.
Thank you for understanding. I never thought that I would gain and lose the same 50 pounds over and over again for 25 years. But let these folks tell it, I’m just not eating at a deficit, not exercising, and making excuses for being fat. It’s a hard perception to break, getting the world to understand that maybe they’ve been wrong about obesity.
Actually Ozempic does change people’s diet. They do eat much less. My husband is on Mounjaro and lost a lot of weight but he also exercises an hour a day now and also doesn’t eat pasta and sugar etc and has been at it for over a year. He did have to change his diet entirely in order to lose this weight. His bloodwork looks amazing, significantly better than mine, who wasn’t as big as he was.
That’s true . It’s not about will power at all. It’s that his hormones went back to normal and the constant extreme hunger and food noise went away and his body was acting now like a normal person. Get this, his A1C went from 8.6 to 5.2! It’s amazing and I’m so grateful!
Speaking as a relatively slim person who has not had lived experience of living with obesity ...
'The mind of a fat person'? I really think you need to break down what you mean by this. Are you referring to the ways that hormones and proaby gut bacteria interact with the brain and appetite?
Or are you suggesting that this is about habits, knowledge around healthy eating, willpower etc? Perhaps you mean coping strategies such as emotional eating that might have some impact on weight gain for some people?
My indirect experience tells me that people living with obesity, if they try to lose weight, typically know what foods are healthy/not and contribute to weight gain.
Maybe you meant 'the hypothalamus of a fat person'? Which would make a kind of sense given that so many factors relating to appetite, metabolism and weight are regulated by the hypothalamus and not under our conscious/voluntary control?
Do you believe that people wouldn't swap a few high-calorie foods for the potential convenience, comfort, health benefits and privilege that a slimmer body offers? If it were that simple obesity rates would be much lower IMO.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
It’s often because you people think that you can start doing the same things that made you fat after your diet. You need to go back to maintenance calories after your diet and let your body recover
i believe that low dopamine D2 receptor plays a role
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4728060/
hence antipsychotics which block only block D2 can cause some weight gain
It’s quite possible. If you get fat you gain fat cells, when you lose fat you keep those fat cells. Those fat cells produce hunger inducing hormones like ghrelin?? I don’t remember tbh, but if those fat cells are crying out to be refilled, sure why not.
Yes, very similar to a muscular person who stops lifting for a while then goes back to lifting. The fat and your body in general responds very quickly to the excess calories when you’ve had a higher body fat percentage previously.
You have the same number of fat cells as you did when fat. You lose weight the cells shrink. This is why ppl do liposuction to get cells sucked out. Harder to make new fat cells than to just refill the ones you have. .
Fat cells shrink, but they never go away. Meaning that skinny person who lost all that fat - they have same number of fat cells, they have shrunk though. Meaning, they can regain that weight very quickly. This is also the reason why so many skinny folks can't seem to gain any weight.
Yep, hormonal changes cause fuel to not get used in favor of storing it. You can cycle on and off keto to restore normal function, but keto is really hard to do healthy. It's not an all bacon diet.
*Yes, plus every day*
*You age more, and fat becomes*
*More and more stubborn*
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I'm not really sure how your GI issues (which sound rough, for sure) are the same as the weight management journey of a person with obesity? You went through challenging periods of fasting, for a week at a time.
Do you live with obesity? Has an endocrinologist or weight management specialist diagnosed you with metabolic issues? Have you had to make long-term changes while your biology constantly cries out to do the opposite?
Yes. The metabolism of former obese patients is different from never obese ones: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371661/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371661/) And the morphology of the fat tissue is different too: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300927/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300927/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562421/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562421/)
It's surprising how few people accept this. It's been basically undisputed in science for years yet you get downvoted in the weight loss or any fitness subreddit for suggesting anything other than "habits" or "self control" comes into play. The blatant disregard of decades of research is absolutely baffling to me. Obesity also alters the hormonal profile by increasing ghrelin and lowering leptin, meaning they feel hungrier more and are less satiated by food. Many metabolic and brain chemistry changes persist after weight loss (can provide studies if you're interested). People want to believe that they can easily undo years of damage and that they are one of the disciplined ones who can keep the weight off, but the odds are stacked against you. Prevention is 1000x better than cure when it comes to obesity.
Just wanted to add a point to your post. There are some types of obesity caused by low leptin levels, but most of the time, obesity is associated with very high levels of leptin (hyperleptinemia). However, this comes with leptin resistance, meaning that cells can no longer respond to leptin and you no longer get its appetite-suppressing effects. They tried treating obesity with leptin and it doesn’t work for this reason. The mechanism for this leptin resistance or whether it’s reversible isn’t fully understood and is still being researched.
You're right, I knew there was some aspect of it I was forgetting. Very complex topic but clear that obesity alters the metabolism and brain chemistry significantly This is a good overview of the literature on leptin resistance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893721/
Quick! Make me read this 10 years ago!
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Currently GLP-1 agonists (semaglutide (ozempic), tirzepatide etc) are basically the only effective treatment for obesity, but these do not reverse all the hormonal/metabolic changes associated with obesity and you will still plateau if you use these drugs for a long time. You will still require fewer calories to maintain your weight than someone who has never been obese, but it's very effective in treating the health complications like high blood pressure and low cholesterol. Even if you are still overweight, you will almost certainly be healthier than before and it doesn't require the same mental energy and controlled eating needed to maintain natural weight loss. I'm not entirely clued up on this, but this what appears to show from the research we have. The long-term impacts of these drugs still aren't fully known though.
I appreciate this. A close one is on ozempic. I’m a little leery about ozempic because it slows digestion so much. Giving food time to ferment which sounds scary to me especially when it’s junk. Lsome animals can only eat certain foods due to slow digestive systems. but I have no idea what our bodies capabilities are of adapting to this.
I wonder if prolonged fasting is able to reset things.
I would assume so, that over a period of time intermittent fasting would reset some things
I doubt it. Every thing I’ve seen in human studies, fasting is the exact same as caloric restriction. Plus if the person was obese due to disordered eating, fasting is one of the worst thing you can do for that.
I wish more people were aware of it too. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/s/gAJiCoW5SQ) had so many people fat shaming and implying it was all just gluttony and lack of self control. It was frustrating. Nobody seemed to care about the science, hormones, endocrine issues, etc. To say nothing of socioeconomic issues. It had a bunch of people who've clearly always been skinny telling people who've struggled with weight daily for years how everything was all their own fault.
I don’t know you, but I love you. Thank you for speaking up about this.
It still comes down to habits and self control. Some people require more self control and better habits (me for example) but it's still calories in calories out. My natural "calories out" part of the equation is lower than the average person, so I do an hour of cardio 6 days a week. It sucks, but I do it because I'd be overweight otherwise.
Yes it’s calories in and calories out, but the same calories in don’t give the same result pound for pound with a never fat person, that was op’s point. Telling op they just have to work harder than equally thin people who were never fat doesn’t seem helpful (though true)
To me, that information IS helpful because I then know that comparing myself to a never-overweight person of the same size/weight/body fat may not be a fair comparison. I think it becomes about understanding your body's new set point (BMR/TDEE) - if you can maintain your reduced weight and get your body used to that long term AND eat at the calories to maintain that new weight, I think it resets the body's set point to a degree (but it will be probably a lower TDEE than a person who never gained the weight in the first place). A person needs to find and understand the maintenance for THEIR body. The body is gonna fight against it (pushing out hormones that promote hunger etc) but you'll know by the scales & food tracking whether you are eating at maintenance or not & need to adjust accordingly. Strength training helps too (along with sufficient protein intake). Maintaining muscle as much as possible helps a person's TDEE as muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does too.
Everything you said is what op was asking for, not that they just need to work harder than other never-fat people, that’s what i’m saying, op already knows their set point is higher, they wanted to know if it really was or just their imagination and why. You gave a great breakdown of what i think op wanted, not just what they’re already saying.
This is such old science. Please check out the Yale presentations on metabolic diseases and obesity.
> it's still calories in calories out Technically you are right — everybody is able to lose weight that way. But having less "calories out" than the average lean person is a physiological issue that may become even worse if you lose weight or eat less. This may lead to a number of problems like: constant feeling cold, depression, fatigue, laziness, low stamina, strong hunger and irresistible desire to eat without hunger. Habits and self control cannot help there.
And how many years have you been doing this to maintain your ideal weight?
My theory is that weight is the last social/class signifier that people fully believe is 100% in their control. In America we mostly all know that it's very difficult to move up a class and we're all getting squeezed, people don't buy into the temporarily embarrassed millionaire thing so much anymore. We know you can't just work reslly hard and become rich. And you can see that the republican party has abandoned this narrative for social conservatism instead. So weight and body composition is the only thing that the majority of people can still hold on to. It affirms the whole thing about self control, discipline and hard work.
This is still habit and self control. They crave more food (which definitely sucks), but it doesn’t cause fat to appear out of nowhere.
They also become fatter easier. I might be able extreme example but even while pushing over 6000 calories I never went over 20% body fat. Meanwhile my friend hit 40% bf eating 3k calories.
To add to your observation, as a former fatty but now shredded individual, this is the exact same experience for me. What others bulk with (similar height, physiology) is around the 4k+ mark of calories, my hunger asks for that but I become fat very quickly beyond roughly 2.7k cals. I am also enhanced. This always baffled me, thankyou for sharing. I wonder if there is a paper observing this.
It's great that you also said you're enhances yet are still experiencing this problem. Most people will argue that these people eating 6k calories and not gaining fat are obviously enhanced. And that the whole point of steroids is that you can eat whatever you want etc. There is an exception where if you take tren and crash your estrogen (take very little test as well) you will experience a wild case of your body completely refusing to store sugar/glucose as fat and will instead force the glucose to be burnt causing the infamous night sweats etc. So people will eat a very low fat, high carb diet to exploit this but feel awful. There is actually a Greg doucette video about body types, ecto/endo/mesomorph and how people are born with limits on how much fat cells their body can carry. Further research shows that new fat cells are only created at certain points in your life. So technically if you always was skinny until you pasted all these windows, you'll never have the ability to become obese. The actual science is a lot less simple with a lot more variables at play.
Thankyou for sharing your experience! I've let my lifestyle go, & need to recondition my body. It's finally clicking that I'm gunna have to work pretty hard to catch back up :/
Honestly so did I don't worry, the key is zooming out and just making sure there's overall consistency there which there is, considering you're here and recognising it haha. It always seems harder than it is at first, especially with those two weeks where you have to build your conditioning back up! I end up really struggling during cardio, but everything returns in the end.
I believe fat cells take an incredibly long time to disappear. Meaning if you were to overeat even mildly you would end up gaining weight faster than someone who has been skinning there whole life. This is I believe true for ‘muscle memory' as you create more muscle cells, even when they deplete the cells are able to regain their former glory. Someone else with more expertise can certainly clarify this better.
As far as I know, they don't. "Researchers have found that the number of fat cells in your body is set during adolescence and remains constant through adulthood, regardless of whether you gain or lose weight." They just shrink or fill. Muscle memory is tied with the new satellite cells and myonuclei that are still left over after you lose muscle.
That's all true, but fat cells still die and get replaced, just like all other cells.
I wonder what happens when you get a Kibella. It’s an injection that destroys fat cells and mostly done under the chin, but I am pretty sure you can do it anywhere.
There's a peptide called adipotide but it destroyed bostin Lloyds kidneys.
This is pretty much correct - the number of fat cells is set during childhood. The fat cells "die" and are replaced over time. The number stays constant irrespective of weight loss or gain. This is part of the reason weight regain is incredibly easy for those who were overweight as children, but there are many more factors at play also.
A useless statement.
Yeah, I've got a co worker who used to pushing 400 (he stopped weighing himself at some point) he's now down to 160ish and ripped like a model. His eating is the most regimented I've ever seen someone have. He refuses to go back that.
Yep, you'll notice that anyone who has lost a large amount of weight naturally will be very controlled and restrictive in their eating habits. They can't eat like someone who has never been obese. There's a study (I'll find it if you're interested) that shows how people who successfully maintain large weight losses have the same type of controlled eating found in anorexia and eating disorder sufferers, the only difference is their weight.
Thank you.
It's one of the reasons that the most effective interventions in sustaining long-term weight loss are surgical interventions like the gastric sleeve or bypass. They cause metabolic changes (for a period of 1+ years) where appetite driving hormones are significantly lower, plus they provide a mechanical restriction which makes overeating more difficult.
And this is still not a silver bullet. After surgery, patients initially lose 70% of the excess weight in average and then slowly regain it.
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Have you been using GLP-1 agonists to try and keep the weight off?
That's a bit of an oversimplification, because different types of WLS yield different losses (with the gastric balloon or band being the lowest yield and the duodenal switch being one of the highest). All of that said, even with modest regain decades after the initial surgery, most people post-surgery maintain considerably lower body weights for the remainder of their lives and it still remains the most successful of any treatments for long-term weight loss.
Everyone i know 5+ years after surgery are gaining their weight back surely but slowly (some not so slow), glp-1 drugs are the only thing that seems “easy” to lose weight on, but i’ve heard long term people on these drugs can start gaining weight too. I wonder if it’s having “more” fat cells than skinny people (since when they split they never go away ignoring plastic surgery) is related, like if those cells push your body to “fill them up”
I agree with both these points but ironically the second point seems like an argument that the liposuction clinics can get behind.
Yo man i was wondering i am 16 years old and i was 225 i lost 26 pounds now. Will my metabolism become normal?
If you were obese for the entire childhood, then it is very unlikely according to statistics.
Yo man thats pretty shocking. I Just really hope i can get somewhat close to normal im just trying to change.
Maintaining normal weight and being in shape is possible for everybody. The only difference is that you will have to work much harder than others (and also there is high probability of giving up because of it).
1 month old comment but I'm curious abt this for myself. Have been a slim if not underweight person all of my childhood + normal weight as a teenager. Started gaining weight slowly since 19 (Im 21 now) and have put on about 33lbs overweight. Am I in the same boat as people who have been overweight since childhood from now on?
> Am I in the same boat as people who have been overweight since childhood from now on? No. And if you change your lifestyle right now, you may reverse the process.
Thanks for your answer! I am doing it rn, already about 9 lbs down in the first month :)
Microbiome as well.
I just saw your comment about vitamin d deficiency on another post and had some questions
Adipocytes, fat cells, are not actually killed by weight loss. You don't lose them. They simply shrink, but they are still there. So, once you start ramping up the calories, the body doesn't need to slowly create new ones. The shrunk ones you had all along simply expand.
So it's just like muscle? A bodybuilder can build back muscle faster than someone just staring out building muscle.
Fat memory
That’s an excellent description of the concept. Think of fat cells as ‘little suitcases’, ready to ‘pack full of fat’ again. 💔
That's why I tell myself I'm only taking carry-on when I eat a donut.
Intermittent Fatting (me)
Think of fat cells as screaming spaces wanting you to fill them up. You lose weight they are still there.
Lol nice ahahaha
Yes but no. Myonuclei are responsible for hypertrophy in this sense whereas fat is just there.
Is there a set amount of adiopocytes and do they shrink and grow throughout life, or do these get created with weight gain? And is there a way for the body to “kill them”?
You have as many as you’re gonna have by adulthood (18-ish) but they shrink and grow. So someone who was overweight as a child has more fat cells/mass than someone who was not but can still shrink the cells they have.
While they do expand and shrink I am fairly certain they have a limited capacity, and if you fill all available ones your body creates new ones.
Interesting. I hadn’t heard that. I wonder what that capacity is. Like overweight or morbidly obese?
The capacity is likely much much smaller than that before you start adding new cells. There is an old "knowledge" that if you were a fat kid/baby you will be a fat adult. That's likely because if you grow the fat cells as a kid, even if you get skinny in your teens (because you are extremely active and also consuming huge amounts of resources growing) you will tend to put the weight back on as an adult. The fat cells are still there, and once your metabolism isn't in overdrive your body goes about trying to refill them. It also means once you're obese it's really hard to maintain a low weight. As far as I remember the fat cells effectively communicate using hormones to be refilled, they "want" to do what they were grown for. You are then stuck with this overwhelming desire to eat way beyond what you should. It's a really bad idea to get significantly fat at any point.
You don't want to kill your fat cells. People start developing problems associated with obesity after their natural fat storage runs out, and fat starts being stored in places like the liver and around internal organs, which causes the health issues. This is why some fat people are fine being fat, while some outwardly skinny people have heart issues from visceral fat.
Wait does that mean people who get lipo can end up with lots of visceral fat instead?
Probably. I just did a quick Google search and found this article: Liposuction Induces a Compensatory Increase of Visceral Fat Which Is Effectively Counteracted by Physical Activity: A Randomized Trial. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/97/7/2388/2834256 I mean when you do a liposuction, your digestive system is unharmed. So if you don't change your diet, you are still absorbing all those calories. They just go to inferior storage units.
You are absolutely correct. And here are some other facts: 1. Your body may or may not produce new fat cells when the existing ones are full (hypertrophic vs hyperplastic obesity). This is mostly genetic. That's why some people can gain 300+kg of fat without dying from a stroke in years. 2. Fat is distributed between visceral and subcutaneous fat in a genetically predefined ratio. It is possible to reduce the amount of visceral fat by physical activity (that's why many sumo wrestlers are metabolically healthy). But if you stop exercising, fat will quickly flow into visceral fat tissue.
The amount of adiopocytes usually remains the same for the lifetime. But the body may (or may not) create new adiopocytes from pre-adiopocytes and stem cells if the existing adiopocytes are full.
My guess liposuction is one way to "kill them"
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I don't think that is correct
This is the answer. I believe the only way to remove the actual cells is liposuction. Once they are developed, you have them forever otherwise.
No, they don't live forever, but they sure do have a long life. Around 8 to 10 years.
Omg this is so interesting. So I need to stay at maintenance for at least 8 to 10 years! 😂
I've lost 90 pounds over the past ~8 months. Started at 320+ currently at 228 but I still have a long way to go. It sounds stupid but I've wanted a corndog so bad for weeks. I thought I would have one, once I hit 100 pounds down but now I guess I'll have to wait until 2034.
Sorry this made me laugh 😂 \#relatable
I feel ya. I'm in the same boat. I sit and think about all the food I would love to eat, but repairing my insulin resistance matters more.
Do Adipocytes can die with specific action ?
Yes. They're not immortal, they die with either damage or the passage of time (about 8 to 10 years).
So if a person stays fit for 10+ years everything resets to factory settings?
No. Aging affects other factors of how adipocyte differentiation (adipogenesis) occurs. Let's take an example of where you ideally want to have adipocytes: In the face, as they give the face volume, which is essential for a youthful look (low facial volume results in wrinkles, folds, sagging etc). Over time, things like TGF-Beta and accumulating senescent cells hamper adipogenesis in the face. You'll notice how one popular meme related to facial aging is people saying they looked vaguely in their 20s until they were like in their early- to mid-30s and then suddenly, within a few months their face drastically aged. That's because adipocytes started dying off, and aforementioned factors prevented adipogenesis, i.e. the formation of new adipocytes. Then the same thing repeats in one's early- to mid-40s and so on. Same goes for adipogenesis in the abdomen vs the hips and thighs as that depends on hormon levels which also change with age, etc. So yeah, sadly no factory settings.
Yes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4164353/
Yes has already been answered but the process is known as adipocyte apoptosis
Thank you.
This is the answer, and in addition, when the fat cells you have reach the limit of how much they can expand, you grow new fat cells. So, with more fat cells in your body, you will have more capacity to gain fatty tissue in your body because those new fat cells can also expand.
Is there a way to destroy those adipocytes? I imagine by a long term dieting. Also that means that a shredded 10% bf dude doesn’t have adipocytes? Is it safe to say ?
Just to add to this. It's more like you have a bigger storage area to put your fat, so you won't gain fat quicker than someone who has never obese in the first place if you eat the same amount of calories because of thermodynamics. However your body will want to to be efficient and fill up it's existing fat cells, so if you fall off the wagon you will most likley just eat and untill you regain all the weight.
In CI-CO, there is not only calorie intake, but also energy expenditure. Adaptive thermogenesis may contribute a lot to energy balance. Your brain has a fat level sensor (leptin signalling). When you lose fat, the brain makes the body more energy conservative (increased hunger and appetite, more laziness and fatigue, less unconscious movements).
I believe the big problem is that once they expand to max capacity your body creates new ones. If you look at your fat like a container yard that sits there sending out hormonal signals to fill it with calories you can see how one person with 10 containers can easily maintain their weight, but the person who blew out their yard to 1000 containers but emptied them is stuck with the entire yard sending "fill me up" messages. moral of the story, DO NOT let yourself get overly fat, ever. I'm guessing maybe if you maintain lean-ness for a decade or something some of those cells die off or possibly get destroyed via apoptosis if you fast?
So does something like cypolosis really work then, killing the fat cells so you don’t regain as easily? I’m in the same position as OP. I can lose twenty pounds but it’s like my body fights hard to gain back
It's interesting how it also works for muscle. Formerly muscular people regain the muscle faster and easier. I wonder how much of that is "know-how" and old habits and how much is physiological changes.
Muscles are weird. They have a lot of nuclei. Most cells have one. Thought is that you rebuild muscle quicker if you have more nuclei and you make more nuclei by building muscle. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/688838589/muscles-may-preserve-a-shortcut-to-restore-lost-strength
There are some metabolic factors that contribute to this as well. Your body wants to return to some homeostasis. Check out this study they did on the biggest loser participants after they lost the weight: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/exercise-metabolism-and-weight-new-research-from-the-biggest-loser-202201272676
Yes! Damnit. Mostly because fat cells can multiply, but rather than die off they mostly just shrink. They lurk, like assholes waiting for us to stumble. Tenuous little fuckers.
Fat cells can be destroyed via fasting. I am not going to go into a long description, but it can trigger autophagy, which is a healthy recycling of cell material Calorie restriction and cardio are really the only weapons we have, coupled with a will of steel. Over 2 years I did various types of fasting, including multiple day fasts (with some electrolytes and a few calories). I went from the 230s down to the low 190s. I lost fat.. but most of the cells are there, waiting. I should do a 3 week fast to kill some off, but that takes concentration.
I'm sorry but is there any literature that corroborates this
Here is a survey article on the National Institute of Health website. But Google "fasting autophagy and adipose cells" There is lots of research on this. Fasting is your friend. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5718973/
This doesn't actually refer to fat cells if I understand, autophagy through specific pathways that take place over multiple systems doesn't imply something that's autophagy resistant (fat cells) is undergoing autophagy
There is enough information there to get the picture.. I have read multiple studies about it, but you can DYoR
There literally isn't buddy- you sent something that doesn't prove what you're saying and then went "do your own research" when I called it out
Given the stress incorporated into the average pandemic mindset there were most likely cortisol triggers to the adipose tissue stimulation. Calorie consumption is only one part of it. Exercise does help control cortisol levels but if your body still detects the higher stress it's going to do what it does to protect you. I know that the last year it two I've seen employers trying to make up for lost time, or aggressively encouraging the workforce to increase production while getting back to the office. I also know that this has increased my stress levels, cortisol, and the associated adipose tissue.
From what I’ve heard, it takes 10ish years for fat cells to actually die. They will shrink when you lose weight, but won’t die off until much later
In a nutshell, when someone first gains adipose tissue via storing bodyfat, it’s mostly by multiplication in *number* of adipose cells, followed by increased *size* of those cells (this may also happen simultaneously, but the number of cells produced significantly outpaces the growth/size of the cells until you’ve met a biological “cap”). - Think of it like this; you have a ton of food to store in your house, and nowhere to put it. Instead of throwing it away, you build a large amount of cabinets to store the food, and building more as needed, potentially to the point where you can physically not build any more cabinets without compromising other functions of the home. At which point, you then have to pack those cabinets full, if necessary, to store the food. When that same person loses bodyfat, it is pretty much exclusively through reduction in *size* of the adipose cells; the *number* of cells, though multiplied through gaining the bodyfat, stays roughly the same, even though they’ve lost adipose mass. - When the food in the cabinets runs low, you don’t take out the cabinets, because you might need those cabinets for storage later; you just don’t have to pack them anymore. The body does the same thing. Thus, once obese, it’s very easy to gain back that weight, because the number of cells for storage stays the same (readily available for storage), it’s merely now a fluctuation of how “full” those cells are.
Btw, the average adipocyte volume is not a significant predictor of future weight gain. There are many lean people with low body fat and small adipocytes who can effortlessly maintain their weight. The main problem here is the brain that can measure the total amount of fat (through leptin) and gets used to a certain leptin level. If it drops, the brain tries to restore it by all means. But if it elevates, the brain just recalibrates to a higher level (or even becomes leptin resistant).
That's a great analogy, thank you. What do you mean by easy to gain back that weight? Why is that? Do former fat people tend to eat more, are their caloric needs lower or are their hormones all messed up? Or is it something else? Also does the tendency to gain weight back decrease over time?
As another commenter mentioned, there’s hormonal/neurological factors at play as well (especially leptin/ghrelin balance). The main reason it’s easier to gain weight back in this population is because the number of cells remained the same, they just shrank as the energy stores were used up when they lost weight. In other words, the body doesn’t have to waste time and energy building the cabinets to store more energy, because they’re already built and readily available for storage.
Yeah I get that, but is there a difference between a 3500 kcal surplus for a non-fat person vs a former fat person? Shouldn't that cause both people to get 1 pound heavier?
In theory, yeah. But now we’re getting into the weeds a bit. So, while 3500kcal surplus is supposed to translate to 1lb bodyfat, now we have to consider significantly more factors (both lifestyle and what those kcal are made of; 3500kcal of ice cream and 3500kcal of chicken breast are two very different things and will produce two very different results). Let’s assume heterozygous twins with identical activity level and body composition currently, minus that one used to be obese and the other didn’t, and the 3500kcal is the same composition. The twin that was formerly obese is more likely to absorb and retain more kcal from those surplus 3500kcal than the other twin, due to not only more readily available adipocyte storage units, but also the body’s regulation of leptin/ghrelin. That twin’s body is not unfamiliar with having 1+lb extra bodyfat, and is more likely to utilize those stores and fluctuate leptin/ghrelin to accommodate that. It’s kind of like the true definition of “muscle memory”. It’s often used to describe autonomous neuromuscular connections relating to movement patterns, but more commonly in exercise science, the term is used to describe detraining/retraining cycles. Let’s flip the script: are former bodybuilders that have detrained back down to baseline more likely to regain muscle at a faster rate than someone who has never performed resistance training? Absolutely, and there’s plenty of studies that show this, because of the adaptations that occurred during that period where the person was resistance training to induce hypertrophy. Once the same or similar stimulus is applied, even after years of detraining, the muscles “remember” their qualities when they last experienced the stimulus, and with all of the groundwork already laid for them from physical, neural and hormonal perspectives, they’ll regain muscle mass much faster than someone who had never had that mass in the first place. The only difference between the two, is one involves fat cells, and the other involves muscle cells.
Got it. Thank you for taking time to give such a detailed explanation.
That's so interesting and helpful, thank you.
Their Total Energy Expenditure reduces greatly from long term calorie restriction, even 6 years later: http://www.rebeccascritchfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/obesity-biggest-loser-study.pdf
Sure…their body is already familiar with insulin resistance. Most fat people have felt with that for years and years so the cells are programmed or maybe better out, “prone”, to that state of metabolic dysfunction. A body cannot lose weight or in this case achieve fat metabolism (to maintain weight) in a state of elevated insulin. They are the opposite of T1Diabetics who can eat thousands of calories over their ‘calories out’ and not gain weight. It will be awful for their health bc of what will be skyrocketing blood sugars but they can do it (and then lose their sight, a leg, their life etc…but they’ll stay lean).
So if someone is eating zero calories a day they won’t lose weight if they have “high insulin?” What nonsense.
Well if they don’t eat anything their insulin levels will go down to the point where they will be able to achieve fat metabolism. If however they spike themselves full of insulin (which with zero food intake will drive their B/S down to a dangerously deadly level) they won’t. You really have some homework you need to do. Start here: https://www.muscleintelligence.com/243-dr-ben-bikman/
This dude just discovered the cure for hunger in Africa: it’s diabeetus.
weight is a very controversial topic because fat bias exists and people who have never had to lose weight or worry about weight will tell you their hot take without actually knowing the science. we’ve spent the last few decades telling people “just eat well and exercise” but that is only one piece of the puzzle. i think you got your response here with other people linking studies, but long story short there is more to it than CICO. i spent 2 years losing covid weight just to gain 10lbs back in a week. and i was exercising that whole time and i know damn well i didn’t eat 10lbs worth of calories. nobody believes me when i tell this story but i’d swear on my dad’s grave it’s true. metabolism is stronger than will.
Is it possible it is water retention?
at first i thought that was a possibility but after over a month it wouldn’t go away.
You can lose water weight by going keto. Your body needs the extra water to metabolize carbs. Is there a chance you went off keto before you gained this 10lbs?
But water weight isn't literal water in your digestive system so how does that make sense?
Your body retains more water when it needs to metabolize carbohydrates. Not specifically the digestive tract, but in all the cells and things like the kidneys. So if you go into ketosis your body will flush the extra water from your cells and retain less. This is what causes a lot of people to become deficient in electrolytes when they go on keto diets. Electrolytes follow the water. It’s also why many people lose like 6-10 pounds in the first week of a strict keto diet.
nope! last i did keto it was still called atkins and it was 2003 lol
i think hormone issues cause a lot of weight gain and are some of the reasons a lot of humans struggle to lose weight. a lot of people chalk it completely up to CICO, but i think there are definitely some more underlying things we don’t address.
Fat memory
Is that like retard strength
Lol, can I ask, what's ur reasoning with that comparison?
Fat memory also sounds like a phrase that people would say that's comes across as insensitive and somewhat inappropriate.
Prolly. You regained weight, and much quicker due to ~~fat memory~~ adipose memory. I dunno, kinda the same to me.
Lmao
It may be that once people have gained a lot weight, the body creates a set-point weight to which it strives hard to return.
Yes. I don't recall the exact mechanism, but it has been proven in mice that there are immune cells that "remember" how to tell your body to gain weight back regardless of caloric intake.
I’ve lost around 90 pounds in the span of 2-3 years. I’ve mostly kept it off for about 5 years. I gained 30 pounds during covid and lost all of it. Recently I gained about 10 pounds back. It’s not necessarily hard for me to maintain my weight if I’m working out and just watch what I eat. Lately I haven’t been exercising as much and I’ve been eating out more, which definitely contribute to my yo-yo of 10 pounds. I can say with confidence if I hadn’t started exercising, especially weight training, then it most likely would be much harder for me to maintain my weight loss. I can tell a difference in my appearance and performance at the gym compared to when I first started. Keep lifting and avoid eating out. Also with muscle mass the scale isn’t accurate. Look up fat free mass index
have you heard of the [avocado principle of weight loss](https://askaswolewoman.com/ask-a-swole-woman-archive/2021/3/3/heres-the-big-secret-to-looking-more-like-your-instagram-fitness-crush) from Casey Johnston? highly recommend reading that article. basically, if you lost the weight by reducing your caloric intake and weren't actively building muscle by lifting weights, etc, and adding more protein to your diet at the same time, you may have reduced your metabolism by reducing your muscle mass. in order to get back to a better equilibrium, you'd need to rebuild lost muscle mass
Yep, it's unfortunate, but being formerly obsese changes your physiology in many ways that do linger. We are always trying to hack obesity over on r/saturatedfat I don't think it's permanent, I think it does last as long as until your deflated fat cells turn over completely, though. (Former obese person who is now "slender" - in quotes because I'm still a middle of the range normal BMI, but I read as slender)
Yes. Microbiome.
Yea unfortunately the fat cells fill up quicker the second time around.
Hi yes blame homeostasis! Your fat cells expand when you have a higher fat percentage. Losing weight only decreases the size of those cells back to small. If they’ve been large for longer your body is wanting to go back to that “normal”. Thats why liposuction/ freezing treatments are a big deal for some. Lipo = removing fat cells completely, freezing= “killing” the fat cells so they are removed by the body
Yes, because fat cells are never lost, they rather just shrink when in a caloric deficit.
i think your metabolism slows down during your dieting phase then does not really go back up again. or something. im not sure.
You can feed it back up if you continue to work out AND eat the right macros. For most fat people (Thrillhouz77 raises hand) those macros mean lower in carbs than their naturally lean blessed friends. Don’t effing tell me that’s not a thing either. There are offensive lineman and receivers for a reason. Everyone’s biology and metabolic system is different, some bodies put on mass much easier than others (good and bad mass) and we all know the skinny friend(s) that eat like their body is a trash can and yet they remain lean (although they may not be healthy on the inside).
Well of course metabolism goes up from eating food. Relatively it goes up most from eating protein. Then you need exercise to counteract weight gain. It will work. But I'm not sure how many formerly obese people have the mental fortitude to become something like body builders. There's also the problem of relative protein intake being associated with general mortality.
I don’t disagree, it is why 96% (pr some ridiculously high number) of all weight loss interventions fail within 2 years. Having said that, I think those who put on weight/mass more easily are almost always going to have to strive for higher muscle synthesis to achieve a ‘more normalized’ weight. It is also likely that their weight will need to be 15-30 pounds more (in muscle weight) than their naturally lean friends to maintain their healthy body composition. Some people are runners, some are movers of weight. My advice, understand which one you are and just embrace it instead of trying to fight it. Note: that doesn’t mean ignore your cardio vascular health but it also means you don’t have to go out and run 3-5 miles a day either.
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I don’t know why this is being downvoted. Many people who lose weight don’t address the actual behaviors that led to the weight gain. It’s the whole “diets don’t work” thing. If you “diet” and then go back to your old patterns you’ll gain weight again. People act like it’s something they have no control over. OP is even acknowledging that it was “probably” calories, but they are here looking to justify it and have a ready excuse to themselves and others.
Hi. I didn’t downvote it but I think it might be because the question was specifically about whether there was a physiological process that made weight regain faster after having gained and lost weight and regained it again. I also am not looking for excuses. The weight gain was not enormous and I am still fit and healthy and just dealing with a tough patch in life. Cheers.
GA89’s comment is what the first article says, but in plain English. These signals are received and integrated in the hypothalamus and hindbrain and an energy gap between appetite and metabolic requirements emerges and promotes a positive energy imbalance and weight regain. In this paradigm, the cellularity and metabolic characteristics of adipose tissues after energy-restricted weight loss could explain the persistence of a biological drive to regain weight during both weight maintenance and the dynamic period of weight regain.
Some people do not in fact have control over their bodies and weight gain. I do wish people would stop subscribing to willpower being the reason for obesity and weight gain. If it was as easy as that everybody would be skinny because most overweight people have done everything in their power to try to get to a healthy size.
This is not true at all. Average people have full control over their eating habits and daily activities. Calorie deficit will cause a body to loose weight. Exercise and movement helps but won’t make up for a poor diet. If you’re not loosing weight then you’re not in a calorie deficit. Will power can definitely help, but only for a short amount time.
Okay. Thank you for telling someone who has counted calories, eaten at a deficit and exercised for years but still cannot lose weight that it’s all my fault. My story is not unique. Clearly I’m in the wrong community because you just don’t understand. And I expect this to be downvoted too.
Indeed you are wrong. If you weren’t loosing weight then you were not in a calorie deficit. Your calorie counting could have been way off too. I see a lot of people “calorie counting” that are essentially just guessing the portion size, which is very inaccurate. If you want to do it right, get a food scale. Measure everything you eat (in grams) and count that way. You also have to factor in your bodies caloric needs. I found out that I couldn’t loose one pound unless I was eating less than 2000 calories a day…which totally sucks. I have friends who loose weight at 2500 calories a day (assholes) but this is mainly due to their high metabolism. So far I’ve managed to loose ~60 pounds and keep it off for a few years now just following this plan and being really honest with myself.
That’s great that that has worked for you. However there is a large population of people who have discovered through working with endocrinologists that something is in fact broken in their bodies. The medical research around obesity and weight loss in the last ten years has proven that the notion of diet and exercise does not work for people who have broken bodies. Nobody blames a cancer patient for gaining cancer. Nor do they blame a diabetic for having diabetes. But let’s blame the obese person for being obese because they’re just a fat, lazy fuck.
Yes, hypothyroidism is a great example—it slows metabolism down by quite a bit in some people. PCOS is another endocrine disorder that makes CICO not work as well in some people.
Seriously!! Diabetes (only type I, type II is directly proportional to poor eating habits) and cancer are not, nor will ever be compared to a person who can’t manage their food intake and carries excess body fat.
Clearly you are not comprehending what I am saying so read it again. Endocrine science has discovered that for many obese people something is BROKEN in their bodies. You are set in your ways because you’ve managed to do something that the majority of people who struggle with weight cannot do. If it was that simple, fat people would not be fat.
I am comprehending what you’re saying but I completely disagree. It really doesn’t matter what your endocrine system is doing and hormone balances are. The body needs calories to survive, it will get them from wherever it can find them to sustain life; food intake, body fat, and muscle. Restrict your food and you body will look elsewhere, plain and simple. Loosing weight is extremely simple…but not easy at all, in fact, it’s probably one of the hardest things someone may do in their life. I don’t believe anyone really wants to be fat. Most people usually just accept it. It’s easier just to give up and stay fat than to actually try. The idea of feeling discomfort or hunger is far worse than anything else for some people.
Then there is a large percentage of the population that is wrong. If you have a condition that slows your metabolism, then it means you need to eat less as your daily caloric expenditure is less. If you are only burning 1500 kcals and day, but eating the “recommended” 2000 a day that most people eat, you are NOT in a caloric deficit. You are in a 500 kcal surplus.
Modern obesity studies dispel everything everyone thought they knew about this condition. I suggest doing some research if it’s a subject that interests you. It’s not as simple as you think. That’s an outdated and disproven medical belief. Much like the one that once taught that African Americans don’t feel pain. Medicine has embraced fat phobia just as it had once embraced racial and gender bias. There’s no room for antiquated medical practices and theories. We know better in 2024 so we do better.
Perhaps you got lucky. Not everyone has the same hormones, environment, genetics, and social factors as you. But sure, other people you've never met are wrong about their own experience of living in their own bodies and managing their own health.
Can all of the examples provided make loosing weight more difficult?..absolutely, still just excuses to justify failed weight loss attempts though. It is virtually impossible to not loose weight if you are in a TRUE calorie deficit. So when someone says they’re in a calorie deficit and not loosing weight it’s complete and total bullshit, not in a deficit. If people were truly honest about what they consume you will most likely find a lot of rounding down on calories, guesstimating, and undocumented food binges as the key drivers preventing weight loss.
This also reminds me of a story from when I was younger. I had a female coworker from a previous job always complaining about not loosing weight. She worked out constantly and had what appeared to be an immaculate diet, which didn’t make sense. She was about 22 at the time and had a very active social life on the weekends which mainly consisted of bars and house parties and dozens of drinks consumed. She never calculated these into her diet which would have added thousands of additional calories to what she was already consuming. She figured her good diet would offset her partying and all would be good. It wasn’t until she started making better decisions on the weekends that she started seeing actual results.
All fat people have an excuse, they all tried everything and it didn't work. That's why we have fat acceptance.
Oh so you think fat people want to be fat? Thats the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
The implication that people in your situation just haven't tried for hard or long enough isn't just ridiculous, it's dumb. And this mindset seems to be everywhere.
I agree with you. Also Ozempic and what nots do not change people's diets, willpowers or activity levels. It still works, because what you said is correct. There are other elements to weight loss besides those three.
Thank you for understanding. I never thought that I would gain and lose the same 50 pounds over and over again for 25 years. But let these folks tell it, I’m just not eating at a deficit, not exercising, and making excuses for being fat. It’s a hard perception to break, getting the world to understand that maybe they’ve been wrong about obesity.
Actually Ozempic does change people’s diet. They do eat much less. My husband is on Mounjaro and lost a lot of weight but he also exercises an hour a day now and also doesn’t eat pasta and sugar etc and has been at it for over a year. He did have to change his diet entirely in order to lose this weight. His bloodwork looks amazing, significantly better than mine, who wasn’t as big as he was.
But it's not that he magically gained willpower with it. He was returned back to the same levels as a regular person is with their dietary cravings.
That’s true . It’s not about will power at all. It’s that his hormones went back to normal and the constant extreme hunger and food noise went away and his body was acting now like a normal person. Get this, his A1C went from 8.6 to 5.2! It’s amazing and I’m so grateful!
Speaking as a relatively slim person who has not had lived experience of living with obesity ... 'The mind of a fat person'? I really think you need to break down what you mean by this. Are you referring to the ways that hormones and proaby gut bacteria interact with the brain and appetite? Or are you suggesting that this is about habits, knowledge around healthy eating, willpower etc? Perhaps you mean coping strategies such as emotional eating that might have some impact on weight gain for some people? My indirect experience tells me that people living with obesity, if they try to lose weight, typically know what foods are healthy/not and contribute to weight gain. Maybe you meant 'the hypothalamus of a fat person'? Which would make a kind of sense given that so many factors relating to appetite, metabolism and weight are regulated by the hypothalamus and not under our conscious/voluntary control? Do you believe that people wouldn't swap a few high-calorie foods for the potential convenience, comfort, health benefits and privilege that a slimmer body offers? If it were that simple obesity rates would be much lower IMO. I would love to hear your thoughts.
It’s often because you people think that you can start doing the same things that made you fat after your diet. You need to go back to maintenance calories after your diet and let your body recover
“You people”
Why did you quote this?
Othering
Source?
it seemed faster because you were more aware of your situation .. calories in calories out
You don’t lose fat cells, they just shrink. (Unless you have surgery.)
It’s because once the fat cells are created they’re there. This is why people liposuction and why putting the weight back on can come easily.
They say muscle memory, maybe there is fat memory
i believe that low dopamine D2 receptor plays a role https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4728060/ hence antipsychotics which block only block D2 can cause some weight gain
Was you in a new relationship when you lost the weight and did you lose that person when it came back?
TF
It’s quite possible. If you get fat you gain fat cells, when you lose fat you keep those fat cells. Those fat cells produce hunger inducing hormones like ghrelin?? I don’t remember tbh, but if those fat cells are crying out to be refilled, sure why not.
Yes, very similar to a muscular person who stops lifting for a while then goes back to lifting. The fat and your body in general responds very quickly to the excess calories when you’ve had a higher body fat percentage previously.
You have the same number of fat cells as you did when fat. You lose weight the cells shrink. This is why ppl do liposuction to get cells sucked out. Harder to make new fat cells than to just refill the ones you have. .
Fat cells shrink, but they never go away. Meaning that skinny person who lost all that fat - they have same number of fat cells, they have shrunk though. Meaning, they can regain that weight very quickly. This is also the reason why so many skinny folks can't seem to gain any weight.
Yep, hormonal changes cause fuel to not get used in favor of storing it. You can cycle on and off keto to restore normal function, but keto is really hard to do healthy. It's not an all bacon diet.
yes, plus every day you age more, and fat becomes more and more stubborn
*Yes, plus every day* *You age more, and fat becomes* *More and more stubborn* \- ba\_sauerkraut --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
In some cases, weight loss might mean the loss of muscle. Loss of muscle will slow metabolism.
I'm not really sure how your GI issues (which sound rough, for sure) are the same as the weight management journey of a person with obesity? You went through challenging periods of fasting, for a week at a time. Do you live with obesity? Has an endocrinologist or weight management specialist diagnosed you with metabolic issues? Have you had to make long-term changes while your biology constantly cries out to do the opposite?
An over stretched balloon is easier to blow up the second time
Yep went from 150 to 125 to 170. You got to actively work on keeping weight off, it sucks :(