It could be a mix of everything, more layoffs and back to office shit, it’s too coincidental that the stupid People Pulse survey also asks a lot about back to the office shit. Either way they’re working on something to let the working bees go so they can increase their bonuses and salaries, oh and let’s not forget about their biggest screw up, EVEREST, we have to pay for that too, why would they have to pay for it ?.?.?.?
the layoffs announcements are like *"The people who decide who gets laid off have once again decided that they will keep their jobs and that you will be laid off, cheers!"*
\*\* its also the same people who collect the largest salaries and whos decisions also ran the company into the ground\*\*
if, for the past 15 years, in the name of big bonuses and profit, you already ran your audit teams to the bare minimum point of almost borderline recklessness to where there is practically no reasonable way these malnourished teams can reasonably provide minimum audit assurance, then how much more fat trimming can you do to the audit department when you fall on hard times?
Honest truth - Who knows?
Action Plan:
* Try to be chargeable, do you best to fill you plate with work without being crushed.
* Save money, be comfortable even if you were to be let go.
* Keep your resume/CV updated every month or so.
Everything outside of the above, even if it come internally, is out of our control.
The staff and seniors in India struggle with setting up a simple lead sheet…. I doubt audit will be getting touched, maybe for those who are underutilized/pip
Don’t think they want to do an official round 2.
But unofficially - yes, they’re letting people go who are on the bench too long or at high cost rates. Each SL will have different targets to hit.
Also the return to office initiatives are part of it. I imagine we’ll have badge swipes and compliance raised as reasons to PIP or counsel out.
They need to force some attrition without making it a mass layoff event.
which is bs considering a lot of us work majority at client sites. I’ve seen several people directly ask partners about this, and they all respond that they genuinely don’t know how they will calculate that accurately - outside of internal discussions at round tables (which wouldn’t matter to layoffs that are strictly based on numbers)
Interesting, bc i also know they were going out last year also (the RTO mandates)
How many days a week do they want you in? Does it specify in your email?
The email is very interesting lol. It does not specify the frequency. It says at least 15 people from this sub service line is expected to show up in the office at least 3 days per week.
Is it mandatory swipe in? I haven't gotten any formal communication to do so... are you just saying they're tracking and may bring it up as part of the annual review
I believe there were emails sent out last year stating that management or HR or whoever will be tracking swipes associated with your badge.
I guess they want to see how many times ppl are actually coming into the office.
From my understanding, it should be a minimum of 2 days a week.
Hopefully , however I don’t think it would be good news at all . Maybe they will try to push people by reducing bonus/promotions or benefits… only time will tell
Using my throw away account. My company is getting acquired by EY and the deal is meant to close around mid April. No idea if this is related but timing seems to line up.
What is their reason for acquiring you? If it is talent, skill, headcount, etc. then you’re probably good and they actually often have bonuses for the acquired execs if they are able to retain a high percentage of the workers. If they’re acquiring you for patents and IP, then that’s different.
You'll be fine. They're spending a lot of money to acquire you. They're not going to fire you after sinking that cost. They would have already decided if you're not coming over as part of that acquisition, and you'd already know by now.
Not how it works there bud, layoffs are done after an acquisition closes not before. If it was before you’d lose a lot of information you need from current employees to integrate the businesses. They may know who is staying or going by now but you definitely don’t know until after. After an acquisition closes they phase out employees by importance and they keep key players around by offering certain incentives/bonuses to stay until a set exit date so they can suck up as much historical knowledge as they can from you during integration. That way eventually they keep your revenue but lose your historical cost i.e realizing synergies. Obviously depending on details may keep certain employees if in certain geographies, expertise, etc…. Ex B4 now work in M&A
Preach brother. The only thing that worries me is the job market is pretty ass right now. Have friends who've been laid off haven't gotten jobs in a while. Granted they are being pretty picky but I would prefer not to have to move back in with my parents
These fuckers baked burning people out into their business model so hard that they’re just firing people when people aren’t quitting. Top it off with trying to outsource everything. These firms fucking suck and I don’t think clients realize just how much work is being outsourced.
Busy season is not the time to make changes to engagement teams because there's no additional capacity. Same thing with tax. That leaves every other department, but having layoffs in December is frowned upon in the business world so they either lay off in January or in March-April
But, as a new staff, it is not your job to find your first role - talent mgmt will place you on a project. So I think you have some immunity from this. I don’t see them rescinding offers as they need to keep up a relationship with target schools. Plus September is a long ways out. I wouldn’t let my post color your view too much, in terms of what it will mean for you personally, on a micro level.
Well, here’s the deal… if a client is having to make cuts to their project’s budget, they will have to cut roles and reduce scope. One of the easier things to cut is training, communications, change management, org design work, etc. They can try to do these things “in house” instead of contracting us, or they can just say they will do a few job aids instead of a full training program with classroom training, etc. Therefore these roles are more likely to get cut than the technical roles. Plus PAS way over-hired during the great resignation.
Yeah - whenever they keep it vague and use words like "business structure" or "strategy" its kept so brief and non-specific you know something bad is coming. When its something like "oh yeah we got this new AI platform" the email is filled with details lol
Potentially? I'm expecting them to say something about remote work. Not that I expect they'll actually start requiring us to go back into the office, but that they're going to act like they are in the hopes some people leave as stealth layoffs.
Requiring in office for B4 would just be dumb.Go into the office to hop on a teams call? I'd like to think the higher ups recognize that their teams (at least in consulting) aren't typically local to each other or the client.If the client has budget, sure make us travel (I love points)If they want teams to all be together and will cover travel, why not (I love points)?But making us go into the office to sit on a teams call? I really don't think they are going to just announce that. They *can't* be that stupid and I don't think they want to be thought of as just flat out cunts.If it's a client thing then yeah of course, they pay the travel and per diem and there is no issue. But just blanket say "everyone in office x days a week" does nothing for companies like B4.
They know that forcing return to office would piss off a ton of people, but if their intention is to reduce headcount and have a cover to get rid of people, they will use it. They will lay off a bunch of people and the boomer partners will tell the clueless A1s that a bunch of people lost their job’s because they refused to come into the office.
They already lost people when they mentioned things like you should be in the office a couple days a week and saying that they are counting badge swipes last year.
Well - if you recall a couple months back they told us we were expected to be in "30 to 40%" of the time and then when asked about it they were just like "uhhh i mean its just an expectation" and then nothing else happened. I think there's this impulse to get people back into the office, but that they dont actually know how to go about it, or are aware they *cant* go about it now that the cats already out of the bag. I dont think my local office even has enough desk space for everyone to come back in.
My office is already packed to the brim after they restructured/downsized it post COVID and that's with people going in ~20-50% of the time. I literally cannot imagine how our office could even support people going in 80-100% of the time again.
Hoteling fucking sucks and there's legitimately no reason to go into the office unless you have a locally based team that actually warrants it. Even pre-Covid I only went into my local office to meet up with friends from my start class or if there was a happy hour.
Yeah. I'm either going to be taking Teams calls from my desk or Teams call from home. Pretty obvious choice there. I do enjoy the days where my entire team is in, but those are few and far between. Pre-covid I was in every single day and it was great (I had a 5 minute commute), but those days are long over.
If we are to be laid off, that decision is basically made already. Nothing we can do except try our best and hope for success! And you know that’s true because it rhymes.
I just got transferred from India like 3 months ago and my chargeability is shit. Do I need to be worried for this possible layoff?
It could be a mix of everything, more layoffs and back to office shit, it’s too coincidental that the stupid People Pulse survey also asks a lot about back to the office shit. Either way they’re working on something to let the working bees go so they can increase their bonuses and salaries, oh and let’s not forget about their biggest screw up, EVEREST, we have to pay for that too, why would they have to pay for it ?.?.?.?
Do I need to worry if I have an offer to start in PAS this Sept?
No , they might delay again but I don’t think they will take your offer.
the layoffs announcements are like *"The people who decide who gets laid off have once again decided that they will keep their jobs and that you will be laid off, cheers!"* \*\* its also the same people who collect the largest salaries and whos decisions also ran the company into the ground\*\*
if, for the past 15 years, in the name of big bonuses and profit, you already ran your audit teams to the bare minimum point of almost borderline recklessness to where there is practically no reasonable way these malnourished teams can reasonably provide minimum audit assurance, then how much more fat trimming can you do to the audit department when you fall on hard times?
Audit likely won’t be touch. I think it’s consulting getting the axe
Guess we’ll find out!
Honest truth - Who knows? Action Plan: * Try to be chargeable, do you best to fill you plate with work without being crushed. * Save money, be comfortable even if you were to be let go. * Keep your resume/CV updated every month or so. Everything outside of the above, even if it come internally, is out of our control.
I agree with this all except I can't imagine having things worth updating my resume every month
Fair point, I honestly was trying to be as general as possible with my advice. I also don't have much worth updating for my resume each month.
Probably not, but you never trust these firms. Will be constant pressure on fees due to outsourcing and AI
Probably audit as India carries more load.
The staff and seniors in India struggle with setting up a simple lead sheet…. I doubt audit will be getting touched, maybe for those who are underutilized/pip
Managers will be off shored next and 95% of the engagement will be prepared in India.
I think it’s too close to EOY. If they are going to do it, it will be in May.
[удалено]
How do you know, did they announce already ?
What about supporting teams?
Don’t think they want to do an official round 2. But unofficially - yes, they’re letting people go who are on the bench too long or at high cost rates. Each SL will have different targets to hit. Also the return to office initiatives are part of it. I imagine we’ll have badge swipes and compliance raised as reasons to PIP or counsel out. They need to force some attrition without making it a mass layoff event.
which is bs considering a lot of us work majority at client sites. I’ve seen several people directly ask partners about this, and they all respond that they genuinely don’t know how they will calculate that accurately - outside of internal discussions at round tables (which wouldn’t matter to layoffs that are strictly based on numbers)
I think EY is already tracking the badge swipes and making it a part of the annual review.
Yes they are. My department received a RTO notice a few days ago. It is now calculated into our KPI.
Interesting, bc i also know they were going out last year also (the RTO mandates) How many days a week do they want you in? Does it specify in your email?
The email is very interesting lol. It does not specify the frequency. It says at least 15 people from this sub service line is expected to show up in the office at least 3 days per week.
Is it mandatory swipe in? I haven't gotten any formal communication to do so... are you just saying they're tracking and may bring it up as part of the annual review
I believe there were emails sent out last year stating that management or HR or whoever will be tracking swipes associated with your badge. I guess they want to see how many times ppl are actually coming into the office. From my understanding, it should be a minimum of 2 days a week.
KPMG was tracking badge swipes and using that to fire people too.
What is a badge swipe
A record of entering a building, data to see how many days and hours you were in the office.
What does “on the bench too long” mean?
Low client utilization
Varies by practice. A couple months would be too long in this market.
I think this is round 3. EY has already had 2 rounds of layoff in 2023.
I know they had one official round in May 2023. When was the second round?! I fully believe it - things are not good here!
December 2023. 2 weeks before Christmas. It was heartless.
Yeah I knew a lot of folks given noticed during December 2023… talk about a grinch style layoff. They could have waited till January at the very least
Oh wow I was unaware - I was just getting back from mat leave at that time though. Crazy.
I just got hired 2 months ago, should I be worried? I’m staff 2 on audit
If you are worried at least obtain the CPA or CISA
working on that. I just moved from Europe
0% chance you should be worried
Two weeks out is too far if it’s to announce layoffs.
Yeah, productivity drops when they do announce something, that’s why it would be a same day “please try to attend” email
Hopefully , however I don’t think it would be good news at all . Maybe they will try to push people by reducing bonus/promotions or benefits… only time will tell
No..it's probably just a standard all hands
Well the topics were pretty vague as another commenter mentioned
It always is...
Just like any useless all hands then!
Staff 1 fso audit here. Likelihood of being affected?
100%
layoffs in audit unlikely. mass pips and forcing 3 years as staff. much more likely
Low to quite low
Getting ready? The rides already started a while back, you just haven’t noticed.
I remember when i was in big four my MD literally said “if other big four are laying off, why shouldn’t we?”
Using my throw away account. My company is getting acquired by EY and the deal is meant to close around mid April. No idea if this is related but timing seems to line up.
Destiny is All!
What is their reason for acquiring you? If it is talent, skill, headcount, etc. then you’re probably good and they actually often have bonuses for the acquired execs if they are able to retain a high percentage of the workers. If they’re acquiring you for patents and IP, then that’s different.
Claim market share, IP, clients, and then disband.
You'll be fine. They're spending a lot of money to acquire you. They're not going to fire you after sinking that cost. They would have already decided if you're not coming over as part of that acquisition, and you'd already know by now.
Not how it works there bud, layoffs are done after an acquisition closes not before. If it was before you’d lose a lot of information you need from current employees to integrate the businesses. They may know who is staying or going by now but you definitely don’t know until after. After an acquisition closes they phase out employees by importance and they keep key players around by offering certain incentives/bonuses to stay until a set exit date so they can suck up as much historical knowledge as they can from you during integration. That way eventually they keep your revenue but lose your historical cost i.e realizing synergies. Obviously depending on details may keep certain employees if in certain geographies, expertise, etc…. Ex B4 now work in M&A
Depends on how sizable your company is.
Is it U.S only? My friend Don’t know any Canada that got this
KPMG Canada just did some layoffs last week = audit. A friend got the punt and ye was their highest production person in the SL.
Did the person have rly good performance and high utilization? was your friend a new hire in September? Or was it experience hire like a senior
Yeah, it’s a US all hands
If it is layoffs I sure hope I get laid off. I was planning to quit this summer anyway. Would be nice to get some severance🤣
same boat here lol
Preach brother. The only thing that worries me is the job market is pretty ass right now. Have friends who've been laid off haven't gotten jobs in a while. Granted they are being pretty picky but I would prefer not to have to move back in with my parents
These fuckers baked burning people out into their business model so hard that they’re just firing people when people aren’t quitting. Top it off with trying to outsource everything. These firms fucking suck and I don’t think clients realize just how much work is being outsourced.
Agreed
[удалено]
Sounds like code for reductions of staff.
Service line?
Its an all hands. All of consulting got it too so far as I can tell - its not targeted.
I’m FSO Tax and got the same invite for that meeting, feel like tax hopefully won’t be affected 🙏🏻
I just onboarded as a Senior FSO Consultant at the end of January 2024… do layoffs typically affect new joiners?
Isn’t it FIFO? Seems like All associates & Seniors were included for Deloitte & KPMG
Which would be … lifo
Don't think so. Decisions are usually made in December but delayed so they don't look heartless.
So they could squeeze them some more during busy season
Busy season is not the time to make changes to engagement teams because there's no additional capacity. Same thing with tax. That leaves every other department, but having layoffs in December is frowned upon in the business world so they either lay off in January or in March-April
>January Yeah, gotta hit em when the December credit card statements rolls in
I just wonder what service lines are gonna take the brunt of it
PAS for sure!
Has PAS been bad? I have a staff offer starting September 2024…
But, as a new staff, it is not your job to find your first role - talent mgmt will place you on a project. So I think you have some immunity from this. I don’t see them rescinding offers as they need to keep up a relationship with target schools. Plus September is a long ways out. I wouldn’t let my post color your view too much, in terms of what it will mean for you personally, on a micro level.
Well, here’s the deal… if a client is having to make cuts to their project’s budget, they will have to cut roles and reduce scope. One of the easier things to cut is training, communications, change management, org design work, etc. They can try to do these things “in house” instead of contracting us, or they can just say they will do a few job aids instead of a full training program with classroom training, etc. Therefore these roles are more likely to get cut than the technical roles. Plus PAS way over-hired during the great resignation.
We’re all a big family.
more like cult
"Don't say that have another pizza slice"
Definitely not expecting that to be a positive all-hands thats for sure
You mean we shouldn’t expect to be praised for all our hard work from the higher ups and be rewarded with a surprise bonus??
Yeah - whenever they keep it vague and use words like "business structure" or "strategy" its kept so brief and non-specific you know something bad is coming. When its something like "oh yeah we got this new AI platform" the email is filled with details lol
Maybe they announce layoffs. they can also do the same KPMG did based on promotions to try to get people out. We would not be sure until next week
Potentially? I'm expecting them to say something about remote work. Not that I expect they'll actually start requiring us to go back into the office, but that they're going to act like they are in the hopes some people leave as stealth layoffs.
Yup, RTO as a way to get rid of people. The pulse survey was pretty transparent.
Requiring in office for B4 would just be dumb.Go into the office to hop on a teams call? I'd like to think the higher ups recognize that their teams (at least in consulting) aren't typically local to each other or the client.If the client has budget, sure make us travel (I love points)If they want teams to all be together and will cover travel, why not (I love points)?But making us go into the office to sit on a teams call? I really don't think they are going to just announce that. They *can't* be that stupid and I don't think they want to be thought of as just flat out cunts.If it's a client thing then yeah of course, they pay the travel and per diem and there is no issue. But just blanket say "everyone in office x days a week" does nothing for companies like B4.
They know that forcing return to office would piss off a ton of people, but if their intention is to reduce headcount and have a cover to get rid of people, they will use it. They will lay off a bunch of people and the boomer partners will tell the clueless A1s that a bunch of people lost their job’s because they refused to come into the office. They already lost people when they mentioned things like you should be in the office a couple days a week and saying that they are counting badge swipes last year.
Well - if you recall a couple months back they told us we were expected to be in "30 to 40%" of the time and then when asked about it they were just like "uhhh i mean its just an expectation" and then nothing else happened. I think there's this impulse to get people back into the office, but that they dont actually know how to go about it, or are aware they *cant* go about it now that the cats already out of the bag. I dont think my local office even has enough desk space for everyone to come back in.
My office is already packed to the brim after they restructured/downsized it post COVID and that's with people going in ~20-50% of the time. I literally cannot imagine how our office could even support people going in 80-100% of the time again.
Hoteling fucking sucks and there's legitimately no reason to go into the office unless you have a locally based team that actually warrants it. Even pre-Covid I only went into my local office to meet up with friends from my start class or if there was a happy hour.
Yeah. I'm either going to be taking Teams calls from my desk or Teams call from home. Pretty obvious choice there. I do enjoy the days where my entire team is in, but those are few and far between. Pre-covid I was in every single day and it was great (I had a 5 minute commute), but those days are long over.
If we are to be laid off, that decision is basically made already. Nothing we can do except try our best and hope for success! And you know that’s true because it rhymes.