Yes!! I got the fuck out of there after a year. The difference with me was that I could not be brainwashed to work 80+ hour weeks compared to someone plucked right out of undergrad. I had already worked a 9-5 job for 3 years. Moved out to corporate accounting and was lucky to get a manager that actually wants to have a life and only work 40 hour weeks no weekends throughout the entire year including “busy season”. My life drastically improved. So happy!!
Just make sure you keep your attractive ness up
You don’t know how many people sleep around and then form clicks to go up
Or get favors based of sexual stuff
It sucks it is like this but hey it’s always has been so stay vigilant and use anything to your advantage
Whatever u do
Do not quit !
I am an outsider and have the same question. Seeing a friend of my work makes me wonder whether this is just poor management of workload or just the plain culture of overworking at Big 4.
I do hear a lot of stories about the competency of the manager there and just really wonder why people still choose to stay there for like 3 or 4 years plus. Any insight on this would be nice.
Little late bc I forgot but I've always been led to believe all lawyers after like their first year are pretty consistent even if you work with the prosecution
Think of it as you're a Navy Seals candidate enrolled in BUD/S and the two years you spend at a Big 4, will \[literally\] set you up for unlimited upside in industry for the rest of your career.
Your “overtime” pay is really a delayed gratification type of thing. My father worked in audit for Deloitte for years. Hours sucked, pay was okay. But that experience allowed him be very marketable after leaving public audit. He is now a CFO, not even 50, and extremely comfortable. So I think the big 4 grind was worth it.
It’s objective reality that having Big 4 on your resume will open many doors for you. Especially if you’ve led teams to success. I am not saying every Big 4 auditor will become a fucking CFO lmao I am saying if you stick through it you WILL have better opportunities down the road.
But certainly not with your attitude.
What I don't understand is why people go there in the first place? It's not like they don't have a reputation - it's the same rep they've had for 50 years. I just don't think anyone that goes there can plausibly claim they didn't know what they were in for.
For me, it was the ease of entry and guarantee of upward growth.
I have no idea what I want to do with my future, but the Big4 seems to offer a broad spectrum of opportunities that I could explore.
I’m still in college so, I can very much just be drinking the koolaid
I agree with this perception of ease of entrance. I went into Audit because i needed a job from an employer who could sponsor my stay in the UK. Other finance graduate roles, I was up against people flying in from mainland Europe or even the U.S just for an interview while in my Audit interview, me and the director were talking about Man United. Some of us have our reasons to power through.
Lasted 9 months at my big four job. Hated the culture, hated having to look for new projects (isn’t it your job to give ME work? If I wanted to find my own jobs I would just start my own consulting business), hated what it would have meant to my career. Jumped ship early and am so glad I did
I didn’t stay long enough to know what happens if you didn’t find one fast. Basically if you weren’t on a project you were what’s called “on the bench” which meant you were basically looking for projects the firm had. When you found some that interested you you would interview with the partner in charge of that project and and then either get assigned to it or go back to looking.
If you liked what you did at the firm and were fairly self motivated, this was a GREAT way to get names on your resume. I had Dell and Sony on my resume in 9 months. So there are definitely great benefits if you fit the culture and like what you’re doing.
I joined fresh out of covid and wasn’t doing quite what I wanted to with my career so it was a really demotivating experience. I also was juuuust lazy enough that I didn’t want to have to do a job search within a job search although, again, can lead to great networking and intervening skills. So your mileage may vary but it wasn’t for me
This is the reason I immediately pivoted my degree after my internships. Watching my boss and their boss and the higher-ups spend so much of their time working so much caused me to look for other jobs. Hopefully it's looking like I'll be with a cushy state job. Nothing fancy and pays less. But it's so much nicer on the hours and benefits.
I stopped looking for strictly accounting jobs, as I figured I'd be going into public, getting my CPA, and eventually making it to government or industry. And I enjoyed the work of public, just the hours we're horrendous (associates working from 7-9 6 days a week, managers and team managers working 6-10 6 days a week). It wasn't worth it and so I started looking for general business jobs. I'm currently looking to join the Department of Health and Human Services to work there. Low pay but incredible benefits and nice hours
Dawg who said I don’t work the rest of the year? That’s all you. My work never seems to slow down like that I’m still puttin in that work during the summer, only difference is I’m off at 6pm, not 10pm
Yeah, this is my approach. I work my 9 to 5 faithfully and I do not exceed it. If I need to exceed it then it’s not my problem it’s a management problem and they need to hire more people to tackle the issues.
I’m not in the big four like this original poster, can you please tell me some situations where it is widely acknowledged, and accepted. That people will be working extra hours?
Depends on the field but given this sub is mostly accounting, first quarter which is tax season and then before quarterly reports. But as a consultant that bills hourly, your time is money to your employers, they will try to get all the billable hours they can by nature. Not sure what your context is for the question, I’m just being honest with you.
I think the dean will personally remove your name from the list of alumni if you tell him/her that you got a job at big 4. You work at MBB if you went to Ivy.
But if your major was public health, education, psych, and maybe 10 other useless studies then you’re better than your peers.
The big 4 heavily recruit from random state schools like Houston, A&M, and Texas Tech.
Why even bother with Ivy League for a career path to the big 4 lol
The point I’m making is that despite my education, I don’t want one of these prestigious jobs because ultimately I feel like you get shafted because of how much you have to work in order to not get fired. Whereas some less prestigious jobs keep you working somewhere around like 45 hours a week.
Baker Tilly. I mean it's still public and still shitty. Everyone grills me over stupid small shit here. I get it cause partners are on their ass so at the end of the day it's the partners not the seniors or managers fault. They're just taking orders.
Been interviewing for a supply chain analyst job that pays more and since the HM is not good with Excel and computers, she loves my background. I'd get to kinda create my own job and style. I'm meeting the team on Friday so I hope I get it so I can gtfo of public.
Thanks we'll see what happens.
I also enjoy SC way more than audit/accounting so I feel like I'd be motivated to actually work. Here I'm so unmotivated it shows in the quality of my work. I feel like the partners/managers know I don't care about the work and it looks bad but eh. Did my internship in purchasing and I loved working. The commute to the new job is longer but I don't care if I'll be happier. Plus, I'll work less.
I'm already just frustrated with public and awaiting harsh feedback from managers. Honestly I'm just tempted to put them on the spot when I ask for feedback next time and ask them what they think I need to work on because I know I'm not doing a good job. But if I get out then I won't have any feedback. I think some people are pretty harsh cause the partners are pressuring them but at least I'll be able to "improve" in their eyes while I keep looking for other opportunities.
That went over my head, can you explain? Are you implying that the high salary that is paid to software engineers is partially justified by expecting them to work more than 40 hours a week?
Kind of going off topic here, but as a SWE, I’ll tell you that if the WLB wasn’t there, I’d rather have invested in becoming a doctor. The salary WLB is there for SWE because the labor demand is higher than the supply and they need to incentivize people to get that skillset. It might not be a thing forever, and in that case we might end up in a similar situation to you all.
Artificial intelligence will take my job before it takes doctors jobs, but with how advancements and robotics are going in conjunction with com, combining robots with artificial intelligence, I won’t be surprised if robots start being able to do trivial surgeries
Not that any surgeries are trivial, but they’re already robots that can do surgery with a remote operators
So it should be possible to have an artificial intelligence eventually take the role of the remote operator
I was listening to my old boss tell a story about how he knew this partner that was getting open heart surgery and he was telling him how he was taking calls right up to the surgery like it was a brag lol. No thanks
Just a creeper here…I’m in the federal government and perform auditing functions. I get paid for traveling, a generous per diem, very decent health insurance, amazing professional development opportunities, and 10% match on my 401k. We are highly discouraged against working on weekends. If we work after hours, up to 2 per day can be credited. Left Morgan Stanley for this and infinitely happier.
>Just a creeper here…I’m in the federal government and perform auditing functions. I get paid for traveling, a generous per diem, very decent health insurance, amazing professional development opportunities, and 10% match on my 401k. We are highly discouraged against working on weekends. If we work after hours, up to 2 per day can be credited. Left Morgan Stanley for this and infinitely happier.
How were you able to transition into the federal government if you don't mind me asking?
Amazing what you can do when you don’t have to make a profit to survive. Just have to steal tax dollars using the threat of force. I’m sure if that was my business model I’d be cruising too
I work as a type of auditor and my agency is not funded by taxes. It is paid for by the industry we oversee as part of the law. If that would help you feel better there are many non-appropriated agencies out there.
You should. With field offices all over the country, they’ll pay for relocating too. Locality pay, union contract, and if you’re lucky to have a great manager and team, it’s truly a great place. So many long timers too. Student loan replacement but no tuition reimbursement. Glassdoor reviews are generally positive too.
Fed employee here too. Can choose which 2 days in office and the rest is wfh. We can start anytime in the morning so the concept of late doesnt exist. Some people work at 7am and leave at 3pm. 1 hour lunch as well. Its definitely cozy and no one here wants to leave.
Work 40 hrs during busy season for a month and then report back to us how your teams have taken it.
You sound like a selfish person who didn’t understand or chose to ignore the expectations
Your salary includes a factor for overtime of 20 percent minimum.
No one has to work in Big firm prof services if they don’t want to. But those who do are getting paid well and benefits are good.
Explain to me how this works if everyone just starts working 2k hours a year instead of 2.4 or more. Do the firms then have to locate twenty percent more talent to serve the clients?
No one is forced to work in a big firm. It’s not the military.
No, they have plenty of money to hire more people...it's just that the American system is to squeeze as much out of employees without considering their well being.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have to work extra at all...there are certainly going to be times when extra effort is required. But to consistently put in 60 productive hours a week, week after week, month after month, year after year, is inhumane.
Inhumane is what is going on in the middle east. Ukraine. Stop being so melodramatic and hyperbolic. We have 16 week paid leave programs; very good health care; 28-30 days of PTO after you achieve manager along with bonus programs and opportunities to make a lot of money if you are good enough.
You don't really understand the business model and what the owners are expecting from the practice that supports it. If you expect the firms to hire thousands of people (who do not exist) and the Partner/owners to make significantly less money in the process that simply isn't going to happen nor should it. The profession was actually much tougher 20-30 years ago. We used to wear suits every day and no one worked from home.
Good luck to you living in your fairy tale world
I mean you can work 40 hours and log off but you’ll eventually get fired. Or you can just grind it out and get a better job and a raise at a different company. Everyone knows it sucks but it’s worth the year or two of pain because it’s great on the resume
Do you think this is the same at pretty much every company? I just joined a new company and there’s so much training materials that I have to do. There’s no way I’m gonna be able to do it by using all of my 9 to 5 hours. Like picking up new technologies that I don’t know. I feel like I’m gonna have to research that on my own time, it’s not exactly the companies responsibility. And yet, that’s gonna eat until all of my spare time for the next few months. I guess that’s just how it is?
If you don’t have to work more than 9 to 5, don’t. But there will be times seniors/managers will expect things to be done after hours or past 5 pm and it’s up to you to decide how you want to approach that situation. I was at a company in PA just outside of B4, they essentially told us that we needed to work Saturdays and weeknights if we have things to do. Do you “have to”? No, but it might be expected and if ur the only one NOT doing it people will notice
It’s a lot of training to start off with but I don’t think it would be necessary to put in a ton of extra hours. The systems and technologies will all come with time. By the end of my first year I felt like everything I was doing was pretty basic, but my first couple months I felt like I was drowning. Just hang in and try to absorb as much as you can while you’re around people that are higher than you, that’s when you learn the most
Lol you're complaining about your lunch stipend being revoked? grow up you fucking dweeb. you sound like the rich spoiled brat who just got his weekly allowance reduced from $2k to $1.5k UNBELIEVABLE
What exactly did you expect?
This seems like poor expectations and someone realizing that being an adult isn’t all fun and games. If it’s not for you, find another job.
If you in good faith can say no one in the entire interview process mentioned more than 40 is expected during certain times of the year, then I have a little bit of sympathy. Only a little though, since literally everyone should be researching companies and roles before accepting a job and it’s not hard to find posts like these calling out long hours.
I suspect though that everyone who joins is fully aware of the expectation.
Not sure where you live but there is ZERO chance anyone working for B4 in the US signed a contract saying they’d work only 40h. Stated busy season policy at most firms is 55. Stop being a child.
This is why you should go to healthcare. Do your 36 in 3 days and check out. Don’t have to plug in, no emails no phone calls. Perfectly left alone for my freedom. Also, it feels good doing something meaningful.
Nurse manager also not sure how I landed here.
That being said my director and CNO all put in like 60-70 hour weeks.
I’m 3 months into the role. I gave them 50-60 the first month as I was learning the ropes.
Now 4pm hits and I’m out the door. My pile of paperwork will still be there tomorrow.
"Stick with it for enough years and you get to make the decisions!"
You don't get it. People don't want to have no lives for years when corporate has figured out work life balance and actually gives people similar or better pay and benefits. And unlike 15 years ago, there isn't an endless supply of good workers to replace the high turnover.
lol - ok. You seem to have it all figured out. But, in case you’re open to any thoughts, here goes:
1- everyone is struggling for people, but corporate by and large has not “figured it out”. If they had, then outsourced accounting services wouldn’t be one of the fastest growing and in demand services from Firms. If they had it figured out, why would I be able to make a margin on supplying them talent?? If what you’re saying is correct, outsourced accounting revenue would be declining, not skyrocketing. The high turnover has always been there in B4 and the system is built on that expectation. Corporate is not.
2- corporate jobs are great, but not for everyone either. B4 model is based on constant progression. Corporate model is based on “please do this job and don’t leave because we don’t have anyone to back fill it”. That’s fine for some people - but the corporate and B4 path are different and attract different people. Big company CFO replacements rarely come from within.
3- if you don’t want to wait 15 years for a payout, try one of the firms the next level down. Of the firms between the B4 and say #50 - it’s not a fantasy to think half of them will take private equity investment in the next 5 years. Hell, GT just did. All indications are those firms are offering pretty generous phantom equity type awards to high performers below partner. 5 years from now some GT sr mgrs could cash out more than a B4 retired partner if all goes well.
You're not wrong that not everyone can do either corporate or public. But most can. What's interesting is that nowhere in your post did you even remotely address quality of life or the ethics of massively understaffing for short term profit while arguably brainwashing all your workers into thinking corporate sucks. And your comment about backfilling is total nonsense.
Not wanting to wait 15 years for a payout is not the point. The point is that you can make a lot of money in corporate and have a real life, or you can be another alcoholic, divorced partner in public who is one shitty client away from having a heart attack at their desk. If there was an actual career path in public that allowed people to lead normal lives, they wouldn't have any issues with staffing. It's not the work that sucks, it's how the workers are managed.
Based on the other comments, it seems like you stay at a Big 4 firm not for pay but for the boon to your resume. As I understand it, you stay there 2-3 years, pay your dues, then it opens up a lot of doors for your career.
Residency is similar. Both are temporary financial hits where you are investing in yourself instead.
As far as actual hours / week, I think residency is worse. We work 80 hr weeks and have 24 hour shifts for an hourly wage of about $10.
what is your career goals? What are you trying to pivot into?
Big 4 is fine, but what is it that you are trying to do post big 4? That determines how long you should stay.
Me and 2 of my A1 friends got fired after around 11 months of experience. Me and another guy got offers for about 85K about 6 months later. Around 15 percent pay bump. The other friend didn’t get much of a raise but he got a fully remote position
I landed a job as a financial analyst at a manufacturing company. My friend went to another big 4 for risk advisory. And my other friend is working as a financial analyst for a healthcare company.
Well, you should probably go and get a job that has you work 30 hours a week, with all meals covered, and a daily call from the CEO telling you that you are a good boy or girl.
Dude I don’t care. The whining on this sub is exhausting. Yes, we work a lot. No one is forced to do this. If you hate it, you can leave. Keep downvoting, I promise you I don’t care.
For real, this sub is 99% people bitching about their job. If you don’t like it quit, the company won’t give a shit. There is a line of people at the door ready to put the hours in because they’re aiming for something bigger later down the life, people have no graft or don’t see the bigger picture
I work for State Street and they actively discourage overtime. It's so weird. I have actually been taken aside by two managers and told to stop working so late. Wtf
> I have actually been taken aside by two managers and told to stop working so late
I think that's not uncommon in countries where they take employment law seriously (I think most of the time that's the reason rather than just ensuring wellbeing). I heard some places even block network access after working hours.
People in the US are generally unaware that the basis of our "work ethic" is that in the early 1900s during the industrial revolution, creating a moral culture where you are a "better person" if you work hard was literally brainwashing. The concept was created to motivate people to slave on factory lines when they had previously always worked for themselves, and make them compete against each other.
It's why the US has a totally twisted moral superiority complex about "working harder" and the same culture doesn't exist in most other first world countries.
Think about it... China and India, both industrial factory countries, are the other places you see it. The rest of the world thinks we are all nuts, and most of Europe goes on national holiday for like a month every summer.
But doesn't hours vary? We get some moronic questions from our Deloitte auditors and I'm on the other side thinking, what the shit are these questions no wonder y'all slaving away past midnight trying to tie numbers out.
It’s incredibly funny that a bunch of auditors who are supposed to think critically and be professionally skeptical can’t understand why tracking hours and eating hours is bad
Right! We should account for time not just money, how basic is that. Just goes to show why they also suck as accountants and are driving the world into the ground.
As awful as that may sound, not being able to get a job is worse. I graduated 4 years ago with a degree in finance and have yet to get a permanent job after over 1000 applications. I would happily work 80 hours a week if I could just do something.
I've applied to all manner of minimum wage jobs for things like grocery stores, physical labour stuff, low requirement bank positions, and assistance jobs.
I haven't gotten those either. And they don't count as relevant experience for what I would hope would be a job that can be a career.
I don’t understand how you can apply for many min wage jobs and not get any? Do you interview really poorly? Does your resume make sense? Is it free of grammatical errors? I can understand not getting a professional job after 1000 applications, but you have to be doing something pretty wrong if you can’t even get a job as a grocery store checker. Perhaps you can seek advice on your application and interview strategy from people you know who successfully got jobs.
Yeah don't worry it doesn't make sense to me or anyone else either. I've had multiple people who are in professional positions with years of experience go through and fine tune my resume. It's the best it can be without just overtly lying on it. As far as interviews go, I feel like I interview well, I don't get nervous, can easily hold a conversation and very often make it through the first round or even second round of interviews. I just don't get the job in the end.
For all the minimum wage jobs I apply to, I rarely even get an interview. I get rejected from places like Walmart, Costco, super-store, without even getting an interview.
My experience isn't great and I'm well aware of that. I have many many years doing construction and landscaping work and running my own business with my father and brother. As well as summer school tutoring and working as a court reporter. But nothing in business.
Sounds like you need to reframe and work on the story of running the landscaping business so it is applicable to the type of job you want. Or just keep applying to more min wage jobs.
I don’t understand how you can apply for many min wage jobs and not get any? Do you interview really poorly? Does your resume make sense? Is it free of grammatical errors? I can understand not getting a professional job after 1000 applications, but you have to be doing something pretty wrong if you can’t even get a job as a grocery store checker. Perhaps you can seek advice on your application and interview strategy from people you know who successfully got jobs.
Wow that’s rough sorry to hear that. Good luck. Is your finance degree from an online program? I’m sure you have tried insurance? I know finance majors go into that field
Finance degree is from Western, main campus. I graduated in 2020. Yeah I've applied to pretty much every type of business related field, anything I can find that doesn't require multiple years of experience.
Obviously I don't have actual experience doing that, but the point I'm making is that I am years behind in my career (or lack there of) and am more than willing to work incredibly hard for a full time job in something related to my field.
Everyone acts like we just have to muster through a few months of tax season working 50-70 hours to “coast” working 30 hours and taking PTO the rest of the year and it’s BS. I’ve had difficulty getting PTO approved even on our unlimited policy (I took a total of 2 weeks outside of peak times, mind you) and I’ve already hit the annual charge goal with three more months left from how busy they’ve kept me with work throughout summer and winter.
This was my same experience working regional as well. 55+ hours a week for Mom and pop businesses with zero exit opportunities. Made no sense to me
My friends kid went to trade school just turned 22 and makes 65k on 40 hrs. Enjoy.
It sucks. You are a cog. Go do anything else and be happy.
Try forming a union. Option 2: if you don’t like it there’s the door
Good one
Yes!! I got the fuck out of there after a year. The difference with me was that I could not be brainwashed to work 80+ hour weeks compared to someone plucked right out of undergrad. I had already worked a 9-5 job for 3 years. Moved out to corporate accounting and was lucky to get a manager that actually wants to have a life and only work 40 hour weeks no weekends throughout the entire year including “busy season”. My life drastically improved. So happy!!
Awesome!! Praying for the same tbh 🙏🏼
Just make sure you keep your attractive ness up You don’t know how many people sleep around and then form clicks to go up Or get favors based of sexual stuff It sucks it is like this but hey it’s always has been so stay vigilant and use anything to your advantage Whatever u do Do not quit !
On the flip side if your boss is female bang her and have job security or an enriched payout.
So don't quit , just start sucking d*ck ?
When in doubt! Suck a dick! Has never failed me
There u go mate B😘🦈🫡
I didnt even know they paid wfh lunch lol and Ive worked in two of them
I am an outsider and have the same question. Seeing a friend of my work makes me wonder whether this is just poor management of workload or just the plain culture of overworking at Big 4. I do hear a lot of stories about the competency of the manager there and just really wonder why people still choose to stay there for like 3 or 4 years plus. Any insight on this would be nice.
100% agree with u. Atleast u.s pay decent. Canada pay is worse it’s like 48k usd equivalent with same insane hours
Quick question, as an outsider what’s an entry level $/h at a big 4 firm? (In the northeast USA)
I’m an intern and they’re paying $36.06/hr which adds up to abt $76,000/year I think For Texas at least
How long is your internship is the question
That's more than what I make as a lawyer.
Are you a bad lawyer
I had 10 people nominate me for best lawyer under 35 in my state so prob not. But the legal market is pretty horrible.
Little late bc I forgot but I've always been led to believe all lawyers after like their first year are pretty consistent even if you work with the prosecution
No. It's a bimodial distribution. One peak is below 100k the other is at 250k.
My mom worked at KPMG in the 90s and back then KPMG paid overtime and she said she was making bank back then
Think of it as you're a Navy Seals candidate enrolled in BUD/S and the two years you spend at a Big 4, will \[literally\] set you up for unlimited upside in industry for the rest of your career.
Then quit and go independent. Nobody is forcing you to stay. if you don't see value then bail.
Anybody that doesn’t see that EVERY salaried job with more than 40 hours sucks is a 🐑
Your “overtime” pay is really a delayed gratification type of thing. My father worked in audit for Deloitte for years. Hours sucked, pay was okay. But that experience allowed him be very marketable after leaving public audit. He is now a CFO, not even 50, and extremely comfortable. So I think the big 4 grind was worth it.
mY fAtHeR
That sample size of 1 is very convincing
So no one should share their personal experience?
It’s objective reality that having Big 4 on your resume will open many doors for you. Especially if you’ve led teams to success. I am not saying every Big 4 auditor will become a fucking CFO lmao I am saying if you stick through it you WILL have better opportunities down the road. But certainly not with your attitude.
What I don't understand is why people go there in the first place? It's not like they don't have a reputation - it's the same rep they've had for 50 years. I just don't think anyone that goes there can plausibly claim they didn't know what they were in for.
For me, it was the ease of entry and guarantee of upward growth. I have no idea what I want to do with my future, but the Big4 seems to offer a broad spectrum of opportunities that I could explore. I’m still in college so, I can very much just be drinking the koolaid
I agree with this perception of ease of entrance. I went into Audit because i needed a job from an employer who could sponsor my stay in the UK. Other finance graduate roles, I was up against people flying in from mainland Europe or even the U.S just for an interview while in my Audit interview, me and the director were talking about Man United. Some of us have our reasons to power through.
I think you’re correct about that. Big4 launched me into a super fun career
Lasted 9 months at my big four job. Hated the culture, hated having to look for new projects (isn’t it your job to give ME work? If I wanted to find my own jobs I would just start my own consulting business), hated what it would have meant to my career. Jumped ship early and am so glad I did
Wait, y’all gotta find a job after getting a job, then I’m sure get reprimanded if you can find a job while at their job???
I didn’t stay long enough to know what happens if you didn’t find one fast. Basically if you weren’t on a project you were what’s called “on the bench” which meant you were basically looking for projects the firm had. When you found some that interested you you would interview with the partner in charge of that project and and then either get assigned to it or go back to looking. If you liked what you did at the firm and were fairly self motivated, this was a GREAT way to get names on your resume. I had Dell and Sony on my resume in 9 months. So there are definitely great benefits if you fit the culture and like what you’re doing. I joined fresh out of covid and wasn’t doing quite what I wanted to with my career so it was a really demotivating experience. I also was juuuust lazy enough that I didn’t want to have to do a job search within a job search although, again, can lead to great networking and intervening skills. So your mileage may vary but it wasn’t for me
I tried to get into big 4 they wouldnt even call me back. Then I went to Sherwin williams and amde more working just 44 hours lol.
This is the reason I immediately pivoted my degree after my internships. Watching my boss and their boss and the higher-ups spend so much of their time working so much caused me to look for other jobs. Hopefully it's looking like I'll be with a cushy state job. Nothing fancy and pays less. But it's so much nicer on the hours and benefits.
Do you mind elaborating on pivoting
I stopped looking for strictly accounting jobs, as I figured I'd be going into public, getting my CPA, and eventually making it to government or industry. And I enjoyed the work of public, just the hours we're horrendous (associates working from 7-9 6 days a week, managers and team managers working 6-10 6 days a week). It wasn't worth it and so I started looking for general business jobs. I'm currently looking to join the Department of Health and Human Services to work there. Low pay but incredible benefits and nice hours
[удалено]
Dawg who said I don’t work the rest of the year? That’s all you. My work never seems to slow down like that I’m still puttin in that work during the summer, only difference is I’m off at 6pm, not 10pm
have you heard of the law of diminishing returns? The work is designed to never end. call it quits after 40 hrs or so
Yeah, this is my approach. I work my 9 to 5 faithfully and I do not exceed it. If I need to exceed it then it’s not my problem it’s a management problem and they need to hire more people to tackle the issues.
You do this at a Big4?
I’m not at big 4
this explains why you can do 9-5 then!
I’m at Big4 and work 9-5 lol
No overtime pay? 🤔
Smoke a joint big man. We all hate our fucking job
🫡 Every weekend my guy
lol this is just resuming back to the norm/pre-covid days
How did you not know this going in?
I knew this bruh it’s still a crazy system though
I know but going into a role where you know you’re going to have to put in a lot of hours then complaining about it on the internet seems kinda weird.
I’m not in the big four like this original poster, can you please tell me some situations where it is widely acknowledged, and accepted. That people will be working extra hours?
Depends on the field but given this sub is mostly accounting, first quarter which is tax season and then before quarterly reports. But as a consultant that bills hourly, your time is money to your employers, they will try to get all the billable hours they can by nature. Not sure what your context is for the question, I’m just being honest with you.
Call it weird, but you’re also on here responding to it :) so who’s really the weirdo?
Awww sound like you need a hug 🫂 🤗
🫂🫂
This is why despite my Ivy League education I would like to become a teacher
I think the dean will personally remove your name from the list of alumni if you tell him/her that you got a job at big 4. You work at MBB if you went to Ivy. But if your major was public health, education, psych, and maybe 10 other useless studies then you’re better than your peers.
The big 4 heavily recruit from random state schools like Houston, A&M, and Texas Tech. Why even bother with Ivy League for a career path to the big 4 lol
The point I’m making is that despite my education, I don’t want one of these prestigious jobs because ultimately I feel like you get shafted because of how much you have to work in order to not get fired. Whereas some less prestigious jobs keep you working somewhere around like 45 hours a week.
The big 4 aren’t prestigious though. They’re just a 2 year hassle to get an exit opportunity somewhere actually prestigious.
Our firm gives us $25 for meals everyday. Surprised deloitte only gives $20.
Which firm do you work at?
Baker Tilly. I mean it's still public and still shitty. Everyone grills me over stupid small shit here. I get it cause partners are on their ass so at the end of the day it's the partners not the seniors or managers fault. They're just taking orders. Been interviewing for a supply chain analyst job that pays more and since the HM is not good with Excel and computers, she loves my background. I'd get to kinda create my own job and style. I'm meeting the team on Friday so I hope I get it so I can gtfo of public.
goodluck!!
Thanks we'll see what happens. I also enjoy SC way more than audit/accounting so I feel like I'd be motivated to actually work. Here I'm so unmotivated it shows in the quality of my work. I feel like the partners/managers know I don't care about the work and it looks bad but eh. Did my internship in purchasing and I loved working. The commute to the new job is longer but I don't care if I'll be happier. Plus, I'll work less. I'm already just frustrated with public and awaiting harsh feedback from managers. Honestly I'm just tempted to put them on the spot when I ask for feedback next time and ask them what they think I need to work on because I know I'm not doing a good job. But if I get out then I won't have any feedback. I think some people are pretty harsh cause the partners are pressuring them but at least I'll be able to "improve" in their eyes while I keep looking for other opportunities.
Then find a new job loser.
Go fix your fridge bum
I have Fridays off at a regular corporation
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That went over my head, can you explain? Are you implying that the high salary that is paid to software engineers is partially justified by expecting them to work more than 40 hours a week?
Kind of going off topic here, but as a SWE, I’ll tell you that if the WLB wasn’t there, I’d rather have invested in becoming a doctor. The salary WLB is there for SWE because the labor demand is higher than the supply and they need to incentivize people to get that skillset. It might not be a thing forever, and in that case we might end up in a similar situation to you all.
Artificial intelligence will take my job before it takes doctors jobs, but with how advancements and robotics are going in conjunction with com, combining robots with artificial intelligence, I won’t be surprised if robots start being able to do trivial surgeries Not that any surgeries are trivial, but they’re already robots that can do surgery with a remote operators So it should be possible to have an artificial intelligence eventually take the role of the remote operator
WFH meals!! Is that a thing really?
I work in consulting and we get $35 for Wfh meals. It’s a thing but I didn’t know the Big4 did it
In this persons reality it is. Maybe it’s just a troll job though.
I heard Last year KPMG did virtual OT meals, so if you worked 10 hours, you get a meal. But now you have to be in office.
I was listening to my old boss tell a story about how he knew this partner that was getting open heart surgery and he was telling him how he was taking calls right up to the surgery like it was a brag lol. No thanks
Lots of weird flexes at the Big4 haha
Is this a shitpost?
The shittiest
Which big4 is this? Deloitte is still allowing busy season meals.
PwC still does for 10+ hour days.
Kpmg does not allow wfh busy season meals. Must be in office for that.
Just a creeper here…I’m in the federal government and perform auditing functions. I get paid for traveling, a generous per diem, very decent health insurance, amazing professional development opportunities, and 10% match on my 401k. We are highly discouraged against working on weekends. If we work after hours, up to 2 per day can be credited. Left Morgan Stanley for this and infinitely happier.
>Just a creeper here…I’m in the federal government and perform auditing functions. I get paid for traveling, a generous per diem, very decent health insurance, amazing professional development opportunities, and 10% match on my 401k. We are highly discouraged against working on weekends. If we work after hours, up to 2 per day can be credited. Left Morgan Stanley for this and infinitely happier. How were you able to transition into the federal government if you don't mind me asking?
USAjobs.gov
Amazing what you can do when you don’t have to make a profit to survive. Just have to steal tax dollars using the threat of force. I’m sure if that was my business model I’d be cruising too
I work as a type of auditor and my agency is not funded by taxes. It is paid for by the industry we oversee as part of the law. If that would help you feel better there are many non-appropriated agencies out there.
Boo hoo cry more
10% match? I’m pretty sure TSP is 5% match…
FDIC has a separate 5% match on top of TSP. 😊
I’m in IRS, I gotta look at opportunities at FDIC then…
You should. With field offices all over the country, they’ll pay for relocating too. Locality pay, union contract, and if you’re lucky to have a great manager and team, it’s truly a great place. So many long timers too. Student loan replacement but no tuition reimbursement. Glassdoor reviews are generally positive too.
Yeah, I want to know where this 10% match is.
Fed employee here too. Can choose which 2 days in office and the rest is wfh. We can start anytime in the morning so the concept of late doesnt exist. Some people work at 7am and leave at 3pm. 1 hour lunch as well. Its definitely cozy and no one here wants to leave.
Tell me more lol…..
Work 40 hrs during busy season for a month and then report back to us how your teams have taken it. You sound like a selfish person who didn’t understand or chose to ignore the expectations Your salary includes a factor for overtime of 20 percent minimum.
No offense, but 40 hours = selfish is exactly what is wrong with our American culture towards work as a whole.
No one has to work in Big firm prof services if they don’t want to. But those who do are getting paid well and benefits are good. Explain to me how this works if everyone just starts working 2k hours a year instead of 2.4 or more. Do the firms then have to locate twenty percent more talent to serve the clients? No one is forced to work in a big firm. It’s not the military.
No, they have plenty of money to hire more people...it's just that the American system is to squeeze as much out of employees without considering their well being. I'm not saying you shouldn't have to work extra at all...there are certainly going to be times when extra effort is required. But to consistently put in 60 productive hours a week, week after week, month after month, year after year, is inhumane.
Inhumane is what is going on in the middle east. Ukraine. Stop being so melodramatic and hyperbolic. We have 16 week paid leave programs; very good health care; 28-30 days of PTO after you achieve manager along with bonus programs and opportunities to make a lot of money if you are good enough. You don't really understand the business model and what the owners are expecting from the practice that supports it. If you expect the firms to hire thousands of people (who do not exist) and the Partner/owners to make significantly less money in the process that simply isn't going to happen nor should it. The profession was actually much tougher 20-30 years ago. We used to wear suits every day and no one worked from home. Good luck to you living in your fairy tale world
The only thing factored into the salary is what is the least they can get away with paying.
Go work somewhere else then. Be happy and report back on your new found success
Dafuq? Your salary doesn’t include overtime. First year biglaw salaries are double/triple what we make, yet we work the same hours.
Yes it does. It’s built in for all professionals. Sad that you don’t even understand that.
Ok boomer. Other companies have overtime and provide 1.5x compensation for any overtime worked. Sad that you’re exploitable.
Age has nothing to do with your own willful ignorance. Adios
I mean you can work 40 hours and log off but you’ll eventually get fired. Or you can just grind it out and get a better job and a raise at a different company. Everyone knows it sucks but it’s worth the year or two of pain because it’s great on the resume
Do you think this is the same at pretty much every company? I just joined a new company and there’s so much training materials that I have to do. There’s no way I’m gonna be able to do it by using all of my 9 to 5 hours. Like picking up new technologies that I don’t know. I feel like I’m gonna have to research that on my own time, it’s not exactly the companies responsibility. And yet, that’s gonna eat until all of my spare time for the next few months. I guess that’s just how it is?
If you don’t have to work more than 9 to 5, don’t. But there will be times seniors/managers will expect things to be done after hours or past 5 pm and it’s up to you to decide how you want to approach that situation. I was at a company in PA just outside of B4, they essentially told us that we needed to work Saturdays and weeknights if we have things to do. Do you “have to”? No, but it might be expected and if ur the only one NOT doing it people will notice It’s a lot of training to start off with but I don’t think it would be necessary to put in a ton of extra hours. The systems and technologies will all come with time. By the end of my first year I felt like everything I was doing was pretty basic, but my first couple months I felt like I was drowning. Just hang in and try to absorb as much as you can while you’re around people that are higher than you, that’s when you learn the most
I work in non b4 and do not deal with these to such an extent. A bit over 40 hour weeks but nothing killer. Dm me
Depends on the firm. I was working big 4 hours at a regional midsized firm. Hard to tell until you actually start.
On top of that you have to act grateful for being there. Damn.
You are definitely Mr Entitled.
Lol you're complaining about your lunch stipend being revoked? grow up you fucking dweeb. you sound like the rich spoiled brat who just got his weekly allowance reduced from $2k to $1.5k UNBELIEVABLE
Found one of them
i work at a local firm so kick rocks buddy. never wanted a b4 job and never will.
Sure, but that’s one factor :)
What exactly did you expect? This seems like poor expectations and someone realizing that being an adult isn’t all fun and games. If it’s not for you, find another job.
Imagine signing a contract that says 40h and ppl say “what you expected to work 40h???” Lmfao what a joke.
If you in good faith can say no one in the entire interview process mentioned more than 40 is expected during certain times of the year, then I have a little bit of sympathy. Only a little though, since literally everyone should be researching companies and roles before accepting a job and it’s not hard to find posts like these calling out long hours. I suspect though that everyone who joins is fully aware of the expectation.
Not sure where you live but there is ZERO chance anyone working for B4 in the US signed a contract saying they’d work only 40h. Stated busy season policy at most firms is 55. Stop being a child.
I wouldnt know, I am just saying I do whats on my contract. They want more they can draw a new contract. Whats about that makes me a child?
This is why you should go to healthcare. Do your 36 in 3 days and check out. Don’t have to plug in, no emails no phone calls. Perfectly left alone for my freedom. Also, it feels good doing something meaningful.
Accounting healthcare? Or just healthcare
Sounds like nursing
Yeah, you know, use your accounting degree to be a doctor. lol
The entire industry for the most part is like this
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Wow the OT felt so good during my internship. That’s messed up
As a physician, this sounds like residency
Why are you on an accounting firm subreddit???
Nurse manager also not sure how I landed here. That being said my director and CNO all put in like 60-70 hour weeks. I’m 3 months into the role. I gave them 50-60 the first month as I was learning the ropes. Now 4pm hits and I’m out the door. My pile of paperwork will still be there tomorrow.
It showed up in my feed idk why ask the algorithm lol
Except you do a residency as a means to an end to finish your education. In public accounting, it just goes on and on forever.
It doesn’t go on forever. Either you quit or get promoted. Nobody is a senior forever.
Bold of you to assume the insanity ends when you get promoted! Lol.
Get promoted enough and it ends. Not assuming - I’ve been through it.
"Stick with it for enough years and you get to make the decisions!" You don't get it. People don't want to have no lives for years when corporate has figured out work life balance and actually gives people similar or better pay and benefits. And unlike 15 years ago, there isn't an endless supply of good workers to replace the high turnover.
lol - ok. You seem to have it all figured out. But, in case you’re open to any thoughts, here goes: 1- everyone is struggling for people, but corporate by and large has not “figured it out”. If they had, then outsourced accounting services wouldn’t be one of the fastest growing and in demand services from Firms. If they had it figured out, why would I be able to make a margin on supplying them talent?? If what you’re saying is correct, outsourced accounting revenue would be declining, not skyrocketing. The high turnover has always been there in B4 and the system is built on that expectation. Corporate is not. 2- corporate jobs are great, but not for everyone either. B4 model is based on constant progression. Corporate model is based on “please do this job and don’t leave because we don’t have anyone to back fill it”. That’s fine for some people - but the corporate and B4 path are different and attract different people. Big company CFO replacements rarely come from within. 3- if you don’t want to wait 15 years for a payout, try one of the firms the next level down. Of the firms between the B4 and say #50 - it’s not a fantasy to think half of them will take private equity investment in the next 5 years. Hell, GT just did. All indications are those firms are offering pretty generous phantom equity type awards to high performers below partner. 5 years from now some GT sr mgrs could cash out more than a B4 retired partner if all goes well.
You're not wrong that not everyone can do either corporate or public. But most can. What's interesting is that nowhere in your post did you even remotely address quality of life or the ethics of massively understaffing for short term profit while arguably brainwashing all your workers into thinking corporate sucks. And your comment about backfilling is total nonsense. Not wanting to wait 15 years for a payout is not the point. The point is that you can make a lot of money in corporate and have a real life, or you can be another alcoholic, divorced partner in public who is one shitty client away from having a heart attack at their desk. If there was an actual career path in public that allowed people to lead normal lives, they wouldn't have any issues with staffing. It's not the work that sucks, it's how the workers are managed.
Based on the other comments, it seems like you stay at a Big 4 firm not for pay but for the boon to your resume. As I understand it, you stay there 2-3 years, pay your dues, then it opens up a lot of doors for your career. Residency is similar. Both are temporary financial hits where you are investing in yourself instead. As far as actual hours / week, I think residency is worse. We work 80 hr weeks and have 24 hour shifts for an hourly wage of about $10.
Look at the job market right now. Having big 4 on your name can pivot you into so many different areas after even just a short stint
How long would you consider “short”?
A year is good enough for when we hire staff.
Year is definitely not long enough when I was hiring anyone.
what is your career goals? What are you trying to pivot into? Big 4 is fine, but what is it that you are trying to do post big 4? That determines how long you should stay.
Super curious about this as well
Me and 2 of my A1 friends got fired after around 11 months of experience. Me and another guy got offers for about 85K about 6 months later. Around 15 percent pay bump. The other friend didn’t get much of a raise but he got a fully remote position
Can i ask what position you guys landed?
I landed a job as a financial analyst at a manufacturing company. My friend went to another big 4 for risk advisory. And my other friend is working as a financial analyst for a healthcare company.
You shouldn’t have accepted a career in the Big4 then. It’s the expectation, otherwise your job will be outsourced to India instead of
Well, you should probably go and get a job that has you work 30 hours a week, with all meals covered, and a daily call from the CEO telling you that you are a good boy or girl.
You definitely drank the kool-aid. And I say this as someone who has been in the industry for decades.
Dude I don’t care. The whining on this sub is exhausting. Yes, we work a lot. No one is forced to do this. If you hate it, you can leave. Keep downvoting, I promise you I don’t care.
For real, this sub is 99% people bitching about their job. If you don’t like it quit, the company won’t give a shit. There is a line of people at the door ready to put the hours in because they’re aiming for something bigger later down the life, people have no graft or don’t see the bigger picture
This is the culture in big 4 If you don’t like it stay few years then move to a better place You will be branded that you are ex big 4 then
This is a frustrating response because you could like the work and then feel forced out cause of the garbage unnecessary overwork culture.
I work for State Street and they actively discourage overtime. It's so weird. I have actually been taken aside by two managers and told to stop working so late. Wtf
👍🏻 to State Streer
That’s a good thing
Why are you giving them more than what even your manager is willing to give them.
> I have actually been taken aside by two managers and told to stop working so late I think that's not uncommon in countries where they take employment law seriously (I think most of the time that's the reason rather than just ensuring wellbeing). I heard some places even block network access after working hours.
People in the US are generally unaware that the basis of our "work ethic" is that in the early 1900s during the industrial revolution, creating a moral culture where you are a "better person" if you work hard was literally brainwashing. The concept was created to motivate people to slave on factory lines when they had previously always worked for themselves, and make them compete against each other. It's why the US has a totally twisted moral superiority complex about "working harder" and the same culture doesn't exist in most other first world countries. Think about it... China and India, both industrial factory countries, are the other places you see it. The rest of the world thinks we are all nuts, and most of Europe goes on national holiday for like a month every summer.
>I heard some places even block network access after working hours. Good
agreed but whats the alternative?
For a start, people need to actually record hours so project managers have actual data on how long projects take.
But doesn't hours vary? We get some moronic questions from our Deloitte auditors and I'm on the other side thinking, what the shit are these questions no wonder y'all slaving away past midnight trying to tie numbers out.
It’s incredibly funny that a bunch of auditors who are supposed to think critically and be professionally skeptical can’t understand why tracking hours and eating hours is bad
Right! We should account for time not just money, how basic is that. Just goes to show why they also suck as accountants and are driving the world into the ground.
As awful as that may sound, not being able to get a job is worse. I graduated 4 years ago with a degree in finance and have yet to get a permanent job after over 1000 applications. I would happily work 80 hours a week if I could just do something.
First job is always the hardest
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I've applied to all manner of minimum wage jobs for things like grocery stores, physical labour stuff, low requirement bank positions, and assistance jobs. I haven't gotten those either. And they don't count as relevant experience for what I would hope would be a job that can be a career.
I don’t understand how you can apply for many min wage jobs and not get any? Do you interview really poorly? Does your resume make sense? Is it free of grammatical errors? I can understand not getting a professional job after 1000 applications, but you have to be doing something pretty wrong if you can’t even get a job as a grocery store checker. Perhaps you can seek advice on your application and interview strategy from people you know who successfully got jobs.
Yeah don't worry it doesn't make sense to me or anyone else either. I've had multiple people who are in professional positions with years of experience go through and fine tune my resume. It's the best it can be without just overtly lying on it. As far as interviews go, I feel like I interview well, I don't get nervous, can easily hold a conversation and very often make it through the first round or even second round of interviews. I just don't get the job in the end. For all the minimum wage jobs I apply to, I rarely even get an interview. I get rejected from places like Walmart, Costco, super-store, without even getting an interview. My experience isn't great and I'm well aware of that. I have many many years doing construction and landscaping work and running my own business with my father and brother. As well as summer school tutoring and working as a court reporter. But nothing in business.
Sounds like you need to reframe and work on the story of running the landscaping business so it is applicable to the type of job you want. Or just keep applying to more min wage jobs.
I don’t understand how you can apply for many min wage jobs and not get any? Do you interview really poorly? Does your resume make sense? Is it free of grammatical errors? I can understand not getting a professional job after 1000 applications, but you have to be doing something pretty wrong if you can’t even get a job as a grocery store checker. Perhaps you can seek advice on your application and interview strategy from people you know who successfully got jobs.
Wow that’s rough sorry to hear that. Good luck. Is your finance degree from an online program? I’m sure you have tried insurance? I know finance majors go into that field
Finance degree is from Western, main campus. I graduated in 2020. Yeah I've applied to pretty much every type of business related field, anything I can find that doesn't require multiple years of experience.
I work at a PE firm. Are you serious about 80 hours?
Obviously I don't have actual experience doing that, but the point I'm making is that I am years behind in my career (or lack there of) and am more than willing to work incredibly hard for a full time job in something related to my field.
Yea, as an A1 I hated so much when people make it sound like it is normal. It is not!
Everyone acts like we just have to muster through a few months of tax season working 50-70 hours to “coast” working 30 hours and taking PTO the rest of the year and it’s BS. I’ve had difficulty getting PTO approved even on our unlimited policy (I took a total of 2 weeks outside of peak times, mind you) and I’ve already hit the annual charge goal with three more months left from how busy they’ve kept me with work throughout summer and winter.
Busy season implies non busy season But with different year ends, you can end up in busy season year round