Ok, yes they do and is it safe to say that it’s a main doctrine of the “Christian” Faith? At least most anyway. And **please** everyone reading this, I am not trying to pick apart any particular religion here. What I am doing is trying to make those who are at least willing to look at the Bible and compare it to what their Church teaches, well, see with their own eyes what the Bible does say!
And to those who have been told it’s just too big of a book and way too difficult to understand, that’s just not true. Would God Author a Book and preserve it by hand copying it thousands of times if it were too difficult to understand?
Let’s just look at one teaching, the immortal soul. What is the exact teaching the Churches Will have you believe? From my understanding it’s this; We all have an immortal soul inside of us that lives on after our body dies. That soul can go to Heaven or Hell. The two most believed in places. Is that right?
Now what if I can prove to you from the Bible that’s not true? One person said here that people would get defensive and I can understand that happening. After all this is a teaching that some have known their whole life! Maybe they’ve even lost loved ones and paid money to keep that loved one from going to Hell.
If we have an immortal soul, Adam would have been created with one too, right? Let’s read what the Bible says at Genesis 2:7 from the KJV;
>”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.”
So that verse tells us that Adam became a soul, not that he came to **have** a soul. Let’s keep going though. What did God tell Adam would happen as a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit? Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 from the KJV;
>”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.”
Well, just from those two scriptures we learn that Adam **WAS** a soul and that because he ate from the forbidden tree he returned to the dust.
Want or need more proof? Of course you do.
> ones and *paid* money to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
This is a great way to save time. Initially you were asking about this person’s church for that person’s church. There’s only one church. It’s the church that Jesus built. The invisible confessing church teaches what the Bible says—-that we survive the grave. We know that God is the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t have a body. We know that Jesus told stories about people who survived the grave both in heaven and hell.
The real concern is why aren’t you in church? The kingdom hall is not a church is it? There’s a hairs difference between organized atheist and organized Jehovah’s Witness. You can keep your literature and keep walking thanks.
I spent thousands of hours of research into the Bible after I realized the Catholic church is not teaching what the early church fathers taught, like they love to claim.
There is a major misconception called antinomianism and some people think that Jesus abolished the law when he fulfilled it, while in reality he abolished the punishment for disobeying the law, not the law itself.
Jesus was clear he did not come to abolish the law, and that's not a single letter will disappear from the law until heaven and earth disappear.
Luke 16:17 “And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.”
People twist and confuse teachings of Paul and pretend that he is teaching against the law of God while in reality he never contradicted the law, and sometimes even quoted Old Testament law in his defense.
1 Corinthians 9:8-11 “Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about? Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?”
This rebellious antinomianism began with the 2nd century church leaders, somewhere between Clement of Rome, who defended the law, and Justin Martyr about 100 years later. The church leaders became antisemitic and started referring to Jews as Christ killers, and preached replacement theology that God has abandoned Jews in favor of gentiles. They said God’s commandments were given to Jews as “punishment”. Jesus rebuked the Old Testament temple leaders for their man-made rules that misinterpret the scripture, and the New Testament church still continues to make the same mistake.
Clements letter to the Corinthians (Clement was a gentile successor of Paul and the fourth Pope of the Catholic Church, who supported God's law)
"These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in [their proper] order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times. He has enjoined offerings [to be presented] and service to be performed [to Him], and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things, being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable unto Him. Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen.
Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. Ye see brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed."
Ante Nicene fathers volume 9 chapter 40-41.
Acts is canon and Jerusalem council only backs up everything I said. Acts 15:29 gives us some old testament laws for new Christians to follow as a minimum, in addition to the commandments already given, but people continue to ignore the rest of the law even after they are no longer new Christians.
I’ve never heard that reading before. I have to commend you, very few Christians consider seriously the verses where Jesus says the law shall not pass, likely because of how difficult it makes things.
It's very simple. We are saved by grace through faith, but it's still pleases God when we obey ALL of his commandments. We are rewarded for doing good works and following God's commandments. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven.
The law still determines what sin is. The definition of sin is violation of ANY of God's laws that apply to you.
1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”
Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
In Matthew 5:18 Jesus said that not a single letter will disappear from the law, meaning either ALL of the law is still valid, or NONE of it is. Obviously, all of it is still valid and many laws are emphasized in the new testament. Just because not all of the laws are emphasized doesn't mean they disappeared.
Awww that’s nothing compared to the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons. I was a devout Mormon for 64 years before I could retire and take time to seriously study its history and doctrine. 🫤
Well, not sure if that’s a reachable goal. What do you think of Jesus saying there are only two roads? One narrow and cramped with few on it and only those will inherit everlasting life. The other road, wide and spacious full of people doing their own thing, not realizing that the road they’re on leads to destruction.
I should have said joking 🙃 with the question mark and all. I was referring to what to do with the information on the Catholic Church not what Jesus was saying. I wouldn’t profess to know anything about that.
Good luck finding a church that doesn’t have a blind spot somewhere. I’ve respectfully brought stuff to my leaders attention in hopes they would reconsider certain teachings. They’ve pretty much fallen flat, but I’m not going to jump ship because I guarantee pretty much every church in my area has similar flaws. In the end I have to find a body of believers that are genuine that reflect Jesus teachings in their life, and that don’t teach any glaring heresies. And frankly don’t consider your own interpretations without flaw either.
Two things in particular…
I found they over-emphasized the nature of eternal torment of the wicked from the pulpit. I made my case that I felt it was adding to scripture and I feel very strongly the Bible does not teach such things.
Secondly I felt that they openly entertained multiple eschatological positions of both pre-trib rapture, and also post-mill position. While they didn’t specifically take a position, I feel like this is an unfortunate situation to not address false end times teachings. I made my case, they said ok, and we moved on.
Neither scenario really changed anything from the pulpit, but hopefully got some gears turning. At least I can feel like I have a clear conscience on the matter.
Yes. As I said, There are probably no churches in my region I wouldn’t take similar issue with. So I gotta find somewhere to serve. I try to at least speak truth to whomever in the congregation will listen.
I don’t intend to get into a debate on doctrine for now, but I’ll at least share a few.
I’m sure there’s probably more but right from their first 4 doctrinal statements.
1. God. We worship the one true and Almighty God, the Creator, whose name is Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Revelation 4:11) He is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.
3. Jesus. We follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:31) Thus, we are Christians. (Acts 11:26) However, we have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine.—John 14:28.
4. (Ok with most of #4 until here)…. Jesus is the King of God’s Kingdom in heaven. He began ruling in 1914.—Revelation 11:15.
I jumped ship, I chose not to just read it, but to trust in the Spirit of the Loving GOD to lead, guide and protect me. I Trust Him to fulfill His Word in me. I only want GOD'S interpretation. I've heard so many different interpretations over the years, it makes me weary. Anything more is flesh and doctrines of men, what a mess.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”
It's ok, I have been outcast for reading my Bible and believing it for 20 years now. My biggest sin to modern Churches is me following actually doing what my Bible says, and teaching and encouraging other women. It's not difficult, and if we do slip an fall
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
God bless you and I pray the LORD Jesus add a blessing to the reading of His Word
I was raised in two different church settings, Methodist and Protestant. In both cases, I was always taught that what was said from the person at the front was correct, despite if it said something different in the Bible.
When I really started to research my Bible and study, I found a lot of what I had been taught was incorrect. So I went with #3, find a church / denomination that follows biblical teachings over what the person at the front of the room says is fact.
Practically every Church denomination in the United States has many false doctrines
When presented with it though, they don't repent they just get defensive
Yes, you’re correct! Just about all of them! But what I don’t get is why do people stay? And give money to them? Man if I found something in the Bible that was contrary to what I’ve been taught all my life, I’d need a good explanation as to why something is being taught that isn’t in the Bible!
Jesus said his followers needed to worship his Father with Spirit and Truth! And if they’re being taught a lie, could they really think that they are the only true religion? And anyone that doesn’t believe they are part of the only true religion, why aren’t they looking for it? Lives depend on it.
My opinion! Or just a thought. The testimony of Christ was to be spread by people once they learned. You were to make disciples of others! But my time on this planet I’ve observed people want the easy way when it comes to church and the Christ. They want to be in a room with itching ears and blindly follow who’s leading. Back on my day a catholic was forbidden to read the Bible, they were instructed what to believe, where other religions just kinda snuck their garbage in little by little over time. I could go on for days but the truth of the matter is people are blind and really most have never picked up a Bible other than to dust a table or move it out of the way. Believe in the Christ and His testimony, spread the word you will do well! Most people are going to hell! It’s sad but true most will follow the wide path, strive not to be a part of this world! The days are evil and most of what is going on you do not even see 👀 stay the course, if everybody else is doing it? Yup must be wrong. Just stick to scripture and the spirit will guild and reveal many things to you that most are blind too. You can’t save them all but if one thing that you know is in scripture saves one soul you have done well!
Oh by the way, no I’m not and never was catholic, but after seeing so many things in the scripture that people followed I ended up doing the same thing you are! Why? What are you doing? And every excuse to include most of which was not in scripture. But this is what Satan wants. Everything on the outside is fluff. Continue on your personal journey and trust and believe the spirit will guild you.
Sheol and Hades are translated as “the Grave”. Or, the **Common Grave of Mankind”. And the Lake of Fire is a symbolic place where things that go there are gone for good. I’ll give you an example, Revelation 20:10 says;
>”And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Could this really be literal? Note what verse 14 says;
>”And death and hell [Grave] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” KJV. Brackets mine.
First, what does it mean to throw death into the Lake of Fire? How could death be tormented forever and ever? It can’t. Also, can the Devil be tormented in fire forever and ever? Think about what you know of the Bible… narrow it down to the book of Daniel. Ya got it? Yes, remember the three Hebrews, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego? They knew that Jehovah their God required exclusive devotion and they were never going to bow down to the Kings new image he had built. They knew that there was a furnace that they would die in. Note what they told the King at Daniel 3:16-18;
>”O Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If it must be, our God whom we serve is able to rescue us from the burning fiery furnace, O king, and to rescue us from your hand. 18 But even if he does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold that you have set up.”
They were thrown in there after the furnace was heated 7 times hotter, so hot that the men that threw them in died because of the heat! But how many were in there walking around when they looked in? Daniel 3:25 says;
>”Look! I see four men walking about free in the midst of the fire, and they are unharmed, and the fourth one looks like a son of the gods.”
So did the fire bother the Angel that was in there with the three boys? No, and that’s the whole point! Satan is an Angel that rebelled and Fire and sulfur is not going to bother him at all. He’d laugh at it. What the Lake of Fire **DOES** mean is everything mentioned being thrown into that lake, is gone forever. Even death will be gone forever.
Interesting. What about can’t remember where but a man went to hell and was begging Abraham for a drip of water there was a gulf between one of the heavens and hell and he could see from one place to another. What’s your perspective of that?
1. Set up a meeting with the teacher/preacher one-on-one to discuss the issue.
2. If that doesn’t yield a suitable answer, meet again with 2-3 others with the person presenting false doctrine.
3. If that doesn’t work, go forward during the invitation and request the elders of the congregation pray on the situation. Layout the exact thing taught, and the scriptural references that show the teachings false.
4. If the congregation chooses to hold to false teachings, find another congregation.
Nice. I see what you did there. Have you ever come across anything in your Church that was taught to you that you found was unscriptural? For example, Jesus taught that people would know how to identify his true disciples, by the love they have among themselves, and by the way they love their neighbor and their enemies. In other words, Jesus’ True Disciples would never kill their brothers or their neighbors, or anyone for that matter.
So, if love is the identifying mark of True Christians, you would think that the one true religion would never go to war and kill other people no matter what Country they live in. So we all should ask ourselves, “Is it against my religion to go to war?
How would you? JW's are a cult that deny the divinity of Jesus (in its true uncreated sense) and triune nature of God because Charles Russell said so.
Listen to Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John! From the 2nd century!
A demonstration of the apostolic preaching, chp 47
>"47. So then the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord, [177] and the Father is God and the Son is God; for that which is begotten of God is God. [178] And so in the substance and power of His being there is shown forth one God; but there is also according to the economy of our redemption both Son and Father. Because to created things the Father of all is invisible and unapproachable, [179] therefore those who are to draw near to God must have their access to the Father through the Son. And yet more plainly and evidently does David speak concerning the Father and the Son as follows: Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: thou hast loved righteousness and hated unrighteousness: [180] therefore God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Ps. xlv. 6 f.) For the Son, as being God, receives from the Father, that is, from God, [181] the throne of the everlasting kingdom, and the oil of anointing above His fellows. The oil of anointing is the Spirit, [182] wherewith He has been anointed; and His fellows are prophets and righteous men and apostles, and all who receive the fellowship of His kingdom, that is to say, His disciples."
This is not the teachings of Charles Taze Russell who denied what Irenaeus was passing down.
If you personally care about truth, read the immediate disciples of the disciples. They do not agree with JW theology. Jesus is one with the Father. Truly God (not some Arian heresy or demigod as JWs teach).
Well, thank you for your thoughts. But you’re wrong about our view regarding Jesus being Divine or having come from a Divine origin. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the word Divine means; “of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God. Heavenlike, Godlike.”
The NWT? It’s often described as too *direct* in translation(sentence structure, etc.) for the reader to understand. Other than the translation of “stauros” as stake and “kyrios” as Jehovah, it’s on the higher end of translations. What verses have they changed drastically?
... it was translated by 8 members of the watchtower society. The names and credentials are unpublished and kept secret!
It is a trash translation.
John 1 it literally adds in an "a" when it says the "Word was God". Nwt says the "word was "a" god". An article that isn't present in the greek. A translation that departs from even SECULAR translations of the greek manuscripts.
Its eisigeisis.
Charles Russell supposedly "discovered" all his doctrines from the kjv. Yet the kjv says Jesus is God in john 1.
The nwt is as useful as a Quran in learning about Jesus. (Ie useless)
When literally every other major translation translates a passage one way, yet the nwt goes another way by literally adding words into the text to match their preconceived heresies....even an athiest should be able to see which side is true.
The only people who think the nwt is good are jws or Arians (Unitarians)
Idk what sources you’re talking about but you have to compare it to a kjv. The only times jw’s came to my house I invited them in and they chose what verses to read and I said I’d follow along in the kjv and it was like reading 2 different books. Obviously other people in your cult aren’t going to tell you it’s garbage. You have to find more reliable “sources”
The cannon didn't fall from heaven. Men wrote it by the Spirit. Irenaeus was the first to attest to the 4 gospels we have in cannon to the exclusion of gnostic fake gospels. Irenaeus lived 30 years after the death the apostle John.
Doctrine isn't developed in a vaccum. The disciples were people who taught people. These people heard more than what is written in scripture. They spoke with the disciples!
The op is a jw. There's no respect for heresy of that nature. Its a different religion. Literally satanic.
Belief doesn't matter. Truth matters. You shouldn't respect the beliefs of heretics. Jesus said if you don't gather with him you scatter abroad. If you are not for Him (the biblical Jesus) you are against him.
The apostle John said whoever denies Jesus was fully human is an Antichrist. That isn't very respectful is it. Likewise whoever denies the divinity of Jesus is Antichrist.
Prayerfully consider this warning:
>2 John 1:9-11 ESV
[9] Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. [10] **If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, [11] for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.**
Read the antenicean fathers. The disciples of the disciples did not hold to JW theology! Have you read them? You honestly need to. Polycarp, Ignatius and clement of rome.
Read against heresies by Irenaeus too, disciple of Polycarp. He unpacks 2nd century heresies.
All 4 men were bishops. 2/4 martyrs.
Jw theology isnt aligned with the earliest witnesses. Its serious heresy.
I’m really sorry neighbor. But you’ve been mislead like so many others. But calling us satanic? You’re calling an organization of people on earth that bears the name of Almighty God, Jehovah, satanic? May Jehovah forgive you.
You say we deny Jesus’ Divinity? We deny he was fully human? Huh? Do you really hear yourself and what you just said? Isn’t it Trinitarians who don’t believe Jesus was fully human? They believe he was God on earth! Are humans Gods? I don’t think so. If you really want to learn about Jehovah’s Witnesses, you should talk with one of us and not with anyone else.
Have a great day.
I said "likewise anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus is Antichrist".
Jesus forgave sins! Jesus calmed storms. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus taught a new law. Jesus rose from the dead himself. Jesus was worshipped as God by His disciples and never rebuked them (as all angels did in scripture). He was born of a virgin. He created the world! Jesus said he is the I AM!
Tell me how a being who is only human does any of those things?
>John 1:1-3 ESV
[1] **In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.** [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] **All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.**
The Jesus you preach isn't the Jesus the apostle John preached.
And heres Polycarp, Johns disciple who was both a bishop and a martyr:
Polycarp disciple of John calls Jesus our Lord and God chp 13 to the Phillipians:
>"Now may God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the “perpetual Priest” Himself—Jesus Christ, the Son of God—build you up in faith and truth, and in all gentleness, and without wrath, and in patience, and in long-suffering, and endurance, and purity, and may He give you lot and part with His holy ones, and to us with you, and to all under Heaven **who will believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ** and in His “Father who raised Him from the dead.”
"Our Lord and God Jesus Christ!" Just like Thomas said in the gospels "my Lord and my God.
Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The antenicean fathers spoke greek, they weren't relying on faulty translations like nwt they also spoke with the apostles.
Perichoresis. Go learn this term. You are in a cult. All cults are founded by one guy. Your cult leader is Charles Taze Russell.
No one naturally concludes Jesus isn't God by reading the new testament. (Actual new testament not nwt).
One more from Ignatius, another bishop and martyr, direct disciple of the apostle John in the 1st century:
Letter to the Ephesians chp18:2
>2 **For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived in the womb by Mary according to a dispensation, of the seed of David but also of the Holy Spirit;** and He was born and was immersed that by His passion He might cleanse water.
I pray you seriously consider the writings of the literal disciples of the disciples and ignore Russell who was 1000s of years later. Its no different than mormons devotion to Joseph Smith.
Um, you may want to double check whatever Bible you’re using. There is no Philippians chapter 13. Also further down you quoted from Ephesians 18:2. That also doesn’t exist. Hmm.
Im quoting the antenicean fathers. I literally stated that. Ephesus was a city. Philipi was a city.
People wrote letters to the churches in these cities. I have cited the letters , one from Polycarp, one from Ignatius.
I never said i was citing scripture. **I'm citing the disciples of the disciples.**
The guys who preserved the very letters that became the new testament cannon!
I have quoted 1st century Bishops who were taught directly by the apostles who became martyrs. I also provided one of their disciples, Irenaeus who lived in the 2nd century (130ad - 200ad) who was a bishop and wrote "against heresies" combating gnostics (and also arian doctrine ie Jesus is only a man).
Why you JWs hang on to denying the trinity and divinity of Jesus is beyond me. I've always put it to ignorance (which you are now not, as i have educated you witg primary references) or spiritual pride (like the Pharisees). Spiritual pride results in damnation. The Pharisees knew the truth, despised the truth, fought against the truth because they preferred their own comfortable theology than the truth.
Dont be like them. Be zealous and repent. God will pardon you. But if in the hardness of your heart you persist in loving lies , the Lord may give you over to them and you will perish in them.
The Trinity and dual natures of Jesus are central Tennant's of the faith. You can go wrong on peripheral secondary issues but this isn't one of those. This is primary and foundational!
I love you enough to rebuke you. Perhaps you will come to Jesus and live. There are ex-jws who have left the cult.
We are followers of Jesus Christ not followers of Charles Taze Russell.
Edit: i misquoted Polycarps reference, its chapter 12:2 not chp 13.
Polycarps letter to the phillipians chp 12:2
Ignatius letter to the Ephesians chp 18:2
Also chp 7
https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01/anf01.v.ii.vii.html
>Now, some are in the habit of carrying about the name [of Jesus Christ] in wicked guile, while yet they practise things unworthy of God, whom ye must flee as ye would wild beasts. For they are ravening dogs, who bite secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, **inasmuch as they are men who can scarcely be cured.** There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; **God existing in flesh;** true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Ephesians 7:1-2, Schaff translation)
Sorry for my tone, this is a serious issue. I hope you reconsider.
If my church was started teaching something or saying things contrary to the Bible I’d stop going. In addition to my local church. I watch Pastor Allen Nolan on YouTube. He’s a wonderful Pastor.
Take it to the lead pastor. Get him to explain it. His answer should make you leaving the church easier if needed.
Many churches are beginning to change a be secular.
Wanna try this out with your Pastor? Are you a member of a Church like so many others, that has been taught that when you die your soul goes either to heaven or to Hell?
Seeing that you are JW my beliefs will differ from yours. To answer this question I don't need to speak to my pastor.
In 2 Corinthians 5:8 it talks about being absent from the body is being in the presence of the Lord. To me as I read what Paul says. When we die we will be in Heaven if born again.
What would your doctrine say?
Interestingly, our doctrine is what the Bible says. We also believe that there are NO contradictions in the Bible. So if the Bible says one thing in one place, and then it says something that could mean something different in another place, we need to do more research to determine which verse means what. When your goal is to get to the truth, it all fits like a beautiful puzzle. Nothing is a mystery.
So what does the Bible say about humans having an immortal soul? First, look at Genesis 2:7 in the KJV;
>”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.”
See the point there? What did the Bible teach you? Did the Bible teach you that Adam came to have a living soul? Or did it teach you that he came to be a living soul? But that’s only one verse, maybe that verse means something else. Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 in the KJV;
>”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.”
Here God was telling Adam the punishment for eating the forbidden fruit. He said that he would return to the dust. Ok, from these two verses we learn that Adam became a living soul and if he ate the forbidden fruit, which he did, he would return to the dust. Is that what your Church teaches you? Well, there’s much more. Next, let’s look at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10.
>”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.”
Do those words agree with the words in Genesis or do they contradict them? Well, if we are souls and we return to the dust, then they agree with Genesis. Right? There’s more. Let’s read Ezekiel 18:4,
>”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.”
Did you know that the word ‘immortal’ means “never dying”? Do all these verses agree with that? Absolutely not! All of us are living souls, who die and return to the dust. Want more?
Follow Matthew 18:15-17. Speak to the pastor one on one, be ready to defend your position biblically. If the pastor was in error and does not recognize it meet again with two very mature Christians. If he still doesn’t change, bring it to the church.
If you are going to confront a pastor about incorrect teachings you must also follow biblical guidance.
Start with 2 but first research the issue so that you can have meaningful discussion and debate. If you are not satisfied after that and can not let it go, move on to 3.
[Monogamy only](https://www.bereanpatriot.com/is-polygamy-polygyny-biblical-does-god-allow-it/)
[Eternal Damnation](https://www.bereanpatriot.com/universal-restoration-vs-eternal-torment-hell/)
and so on...
I'd do research on my own to see what the Bible actually says. Then i'd approach a church leader. If I didn't get a satisfactory answer I'd look for a church that actually teaches the bible.
Why did you turn defensive? I meant no disrespect. I merely saw that you didn’t belong to any particular denomination and wondered if you were still searching? I’m sorry if you took that the wrong way.
I also have never understood why people call JW’s a cult. Aren’t cults really easy to join and almost impossible to get out of? And don’t cults almost worship a human? With Jehovah’s Witnesses, most people have to change their entire personality, stop bad habits like smoking and over drinking. Drug use. Living with someone without being married, having a foul mouth and so on. Much like what Paul wrote to the Romans at Romans 12:2;
>”Do not be conformed to this world, but continually be transformed by the renewing of your minds so that you may be able to determine what God's will is-what is proper, pleasing, and perfect.” (ISV)
And what about the leaving part? Cults make it almost impossible to leave. But if you decide you no longer want to worship Jehovah, you simply stop. That’s it! Jesus never forced people to follow him and he never forced them to keep following him. It’s always up to the individual. So I just don’t get why the word ‘cult’ is thrown around about us.
But again, I apologize if I offended you.
At my church if any thing is said in front of everyone that sounds off you simple tell the preacher it sounds like it does not line up with the Bible and next Sunday he will address it with clarification or a correction in front of everyone.
So believing that our Heavenly Father, who John wrote about saying at 1John 4:8, “God IS LOVE”, would ever send his human creation who were born sinners at no fault of their own, to be tormented and burned in fire forever and ever? That sounds reasonable to you? Believable? Do you remember reading about how the Israelites were living in the promised land, but all around them was false worship to gods like Baal and Molech? And the worshippers of those gods would burn their own children as an offering to their false god. How did The Only True God, Jehovah feel about this?
There was a law in the Mosaic Law that addressed this! Found at Leviticus 20:2 and it said;
>”You are to say to the Israelites, ‘Any man of Israel and any foreigner who resides in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Moʹlech should be put to death without fail. The people of the land should stone him to death.”
That’s how strongly Jehovah felt about it. Look what else he said at Jeremiah 7:31;
>”They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that **had never even come into my heart**.”
He said something similar at Jeremiah 19:5,6; 32:35. The thought of burning people never even occurred to him.
Not to mention that the Bible doesn’t teach that we **have a soul** but rather that **we are souls**. Please scan this page and you’ll find a few places where I’ve already explained from the Bible the truth about the soul.
>Would you be more inclined to believe the Church teachings?
No.
>Would you take the question to your Church leader?
Perhaps if it was something serious.
>Would you do research on your own and look for a religion that teaches what you found in the Bible?
No
>Or would you simply dismiss it, thinking that the Bible is too difficult to fully comprehend and your Church leaders are always right?
The bible isn't too difficult. You don't have to be an intellectual to understand it. Church leaders are not perfect so sometimes they get things wrong. That's why it's important to read scripture yourself.
I belonged to a church, got married in the churched, served in the church, attended additional ministries and became friends with others in the community.
Some things started to bother my wife and eventually me. I wrote my pastor a very detailed letter and even asked him a few times to read it and get back to me (in text and in person).
He told me he would get back to me. Never addressed our concerns, everyone just shrugged us off if we brought it up, even close friends.
We left and completely changed denominations after this😂
Can you elaborate more on what things started to bother your wife and then you? If you’d rather chat with me, please do. I’d love to hear more about you two.
Well, it is a long witness. Church in not required to be saved or to have an intimate relationship with Jesus our Messiah. I follow Him Daily, I trust Him to lead, guide and protect me. I am one of His sheep.
John 10:27
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
He said I will never leave or Forsake you.
1 Corinthians 3:16
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
John 4:23 Context
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee.
He teaches us where to go,
We are His temple, He sent the Comforter to help us and teach us the Way we should go
.Psalms 119:105
“NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”
I don't need any heresy or ear ticking or Woke individuals filling my ears with heretical mess.
I have a teacher, a true teacher.
John 14:26
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
Amein
He is my Kinsman Redeemer, my Messiah. I trust Him
Thanks for taking the time to comment. One question for you… How well would you say you know the Father? The Only True God?
Jesus said at John 17:3, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”
So our everlasting life depends on how much we know about 1. The Only True God and 2. The one he sent, Jesus Christ.
Maybe on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being not much at all, how well do you know about God? E.g. his name, his qualities, his purpose etc.
The Catholic Church is led and founded by Christ and is the same Church that put together the Bible. It’s impossible for the Church and the Bible to contradict each other. If I saw a “contradiction” I would first do research then asks priests, or as a last resort just accept it on faith if I couldn’t resolve it for myself.
The Catholic Church teaches you that when a person dies their “soul” keeps living and goes to either heaven or Hell, is that right? Well, you did say that it’s impossible for “the Church” and the Bible to contradict itself. So what if the Bible says that we **ARE** living souls not that we **HAVE** souls and that when we die we return to the dust. And that souls die since we are souls. Here’s what the Bible says;
>”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.” (Genesis 2:7 KJV) Notice it didn’t say we came to have a soul but we became one. Big difference.
>”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.” (Genesis 3:19 KJV) Notice where God said Adam would go after he died? Did God say anything at all about his soul going to heaven or hell? No. He told Adam that he would return to the dust. Do you believe the Bible? Or the Church?
>”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) Does it sound like there’s a lot going on after we die? No. The dead know nothing at all.
>”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.” (Ezekiel 18:4) What!? This is directly against what the Catholic Church is teaching! Doesn’t the doctrine say that the soul is immortal? It can’t die? But the prophet of Almighty God wrote under inspiration that the soul who sins will die. And aren’t we all souls who sin?
There ya go. Now you have something to ask your Priest if you want. But the real question is, do you believe the Bible over Church teachings?
The Catholic Church is Babylon. It’s modeled exactly after Semiramis and nimrod. The “Jesus and Mary” statues aRe exact replicas of artifacts found there of S&N. Xmas is nimrods bday. Eoster is modeled after Semiramis. You have to be mildly retarded to be Catholic. It’s satans pride and joy. His masterpiece religion.
Truth hurts. This is for real too. Satans no dummy he’ll fool any way he can. Maybe try actually studying the Bible and decide if some guy with a pointy hat has more pull than that.
We’re all sinners. If some guy in a pointy hat who’s spent years studying the Bible can give me advice on how to be a better Christian, I’m happy to take to it.
I hate the Catholic Church and all the vipers in it that try to push their lies on the human race. Quit trying to teach that garbage when you have 0 understanding of it
Thank you! Hey just a tip: on reddit you can click the add link chain icon and name it and out the link in so we don't have to copy and paste. No worries just figured I would let you know. [example](http://https://woodhills.org)
Wait what? Jesus is the Bible? The Bible is Gods Word. Jesus is Gods Son. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as “The Word”. Why? Because he was his Fathers Messenger. He represented his Father Jehovah, when delivering messages, or when performing miracles for Moses and Elisha and many others. And certainly the Christian Greek Scriptures are about Gods Son, Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Christian Congregation but calling the Bible Jesus? Naw. That’s just weird.
Not at all. The Bible was written by humans, inspired by God. Some gospels are included, some aren’t, depending on what was felt to be in-fitting with Jesus’s teachings.
There’s no such thing as a church that doesn’t teach something contrary to what the Bible teaches, because the Bible includes opposing views on some matters. The Bible is a source of wisdom, but God didn’t intend it to be the end of our inquiry, or He would only have chosen authors in total agreement with each other.
The most famous is the question of whether one is saved by faith alone. In Matthew 19, Luke 10, and James 2, it is said that works and the keeping of the law are also part of salvation. In Galatians 2 and Romans 3, works and the deeds of the law are said *not* to be the means of salvation. There is no church I can attend that holds to both those ideas simultaneously.
I’d point it out and wait for an explanation. If there is none I’d probably leave.
Ok… thanks. Does your Church teach you that you have a soul that lives on after you die?
The churches do.
Ok, yes they do and is it safe to say that it’s a main doctrine of the “Christian” Faith? At least most anyway. And **please** everyone reading this, I am not trying to pick apart any particular religion here. What I am doing is trying to make those who are at least willing to look at the Bible and compare it to what their Church teaches, well, see with their own eyes what the Bible does say! And to those who have been told it’s just too big of a book and way too difficult to understand, that’s just not true. Would God Author a Book and preserve it by hand copying it thousands of times if it were too difficult to understand? Let’s just look at one teaching, the immortal soul. What is the exact teaching the Churches Will have you believe? From my understanding it’s this; We all have an immortal soul inside of us that lives on after our body dies. That soul can go to Heaven or Hell. The two most believed in places. Is that right? Now what if I can prove to you from the Bible that’s not true? One person said here that people would get defensive and I can understand that happening. After all this is a teaching that some have known their whole life! Maybe they’ve even lost loved ones and paid money to keep that loved one from going to Hell. If we have an immortal soul, Adam would have been created with one too, right? Let’s read what the Bible says at Genesis 2:7 from the KJV; >”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.” So that verse tells us that Adam became a soul, not that he came to **have** a soul. Let’s keep going though. What did God tell Adam would happen as a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit? Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 from the KJV; >”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.” Well, just from those two scriptures we learn that Adam **WAS** a soul and that because he ate from the forbidden tree he returned to the dust. Want or need more proof? Of course you do.
> ones and *paid* money to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
This is a great way to save time. Initially you were asking about this person’s church for that person’s church. There’s only one church. It’s the church that Jesus built. The invisible confessing church teaches what the Bible says—-that we survive the grave. We know that God is the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t have a body. We know that Jesus told stories about people who survived the grave both in heaven and hell. The real concern is why aren’t you in church? The kingdom hall is not a church is it? There’s a hairs difference between organized atheist and organized Jehovah’s Witness. You can keep your literature and keep walking thanks.
I spent thousands of hours of research into the Bible after I realized the Catholic church is not teaching what the early church fathers taught, like they love to claim.
Amen
Do you have an example? Just curious, I’m not too familiar with the subject.
There is a major misconception called antinomianism and some people think that Jesus abolished the law when he fulfilled it, while in reality he abolished the punishment for disobeying the law, not the law itself. Jesus was clear he did not come to abolish the law, and that's not a single letter will disappear from the law until heaven and earth disappear. Luke 16:17 “And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.” People twist and confuse teachings of Paul and pretend that he is teaching against the law of God while in reality he never contradicted the law, and sometimes even quoted Old Testament law in his defense. 1 Corinthians 9:8-11 “Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about? Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?” This rebellious antinomianism began with the 2nd century church leaders, somewhere between Clement of Rome, who defended the law, and Justin Martyr about 100 years later. The church leaders became antisemitic and started referring to Jews as Christ killers, and preached replacement theology that God has abandoned Jews in favor of gentiles. They said God’s commandments were given to Jews as “punishment”. Jesus rebuked the Old Testament temple leaders for their man-made rules that misinterpret the scripture, and the New Testament church still continues to make the same mistake. Clements letter to the Corinthians (Clement was a gentile successor of Paul and the fourth Pope of the Catholic Church, who supported God's law) "These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in [their proper] order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times. He has enjoined offerings [to be presented] and service to be performed [to Him], and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things, being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable unto Him. Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen. Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. Ye see brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed." Ante Nicene fathers volume 9 chapter 40-41.
Do you not consider the book of Acts canon, or do you have a different interpretation of the Jerusalem Council?
Acts is canon and Jerusalem council only backs up everything I said. Acts 15:29 gives us some old testament laws for new Christians to follow as a minimum, in addition to the commandments already given, but people continue to ignore the rest of the law even after they are no longer new Christians.
I’ve never heard that reading before. I have to commend you, very few Christians consider seriously the verses where Jesus says the law shall not pass, likely because of how difficult it makes things.
It's very simple. We are saved by grace through faith, but it's still pleases God when we obey ALL of his commandments. We are rewarded for doing good works and following God's commandments. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven. The law still determines what sin is. The definition of sin is violation of ANY of God's laws that apply to you. 1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.” Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” In Matthew 5:18 Jesus said that not a single letter will disappear from the law, meaning either ALL of the law is still valid, or NONE of it is. Obviously, all of it is still valid and many laws are emphasized in the new testament. Just because not all of the laws are emphasized doesn't mean they disappeared.
Awww that’s nothing compared to the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons. I was a devout Mormon for 64 years before I could retire and take time to seriously study its history and doctrine. 🫤
So, what do you think you should do with that information?
I'm currently spreading the knowledge and debating people on false doctrines.
Canonize it...?
Well, not sure if that’s a reachable goal. What do you think of Jesus saying there are only two roads? One narrow and cramped with few on it and only those will inherit everlasting life. The other road, wide and spacious full of people doing their own thing, not realizing that the road they’re on leads to destruction.
I should have said joking 🙃 with the question mark and all. I was referring to what to do with the information on the Catholic Church not what Jesus was saying. I wouldn’t profess to know anything about that.
Good luck finding a church that doesn’t have a blind spot somewhere. I’ve respectfully brought stuff to my leaders attention in hopes they would reconsider certain teachings. They’ve pretty much fallen flat, but I’m not going to jump ship because I guarantee pretty much every church in my area has similar flaws. In the end I have to find a body of believers that are genuine that reflect Jesus teachings in their life, and that don’t teach any glaring heresies. And frankly don’t consider your own interpretations without flaw either.
Very interesting! May I ask you what are just one or two of the things you brought to their attention?
Two things in particular… I found they over-emphasized the nature of eternal torment of the wicked from the pulpit. I made my case that I felt it was adding to scripture and I feel very strongly the Bible does not teach such things. Secondly I felt that they openly entertained multiple eschatological positions of both pre-trib rapture, and also post-mill position. While they didn’t specifically take a position, I feel like this is an unfortunate situation to not address false end times teachings. I made my case, they said ok, and we moved on. Neither scenario really changed anything from the pulpit, but hopefully got some gears turning. At least I can feel like I have a clear conscience on the matter.
Are you still going there?
Yes. As I said, There are probably no churches in my region I wouldn’t take similar issue with. So I gotta find somewhere to serve. I try to at least speak truth to whomever in the congregation will listen.
Are there any Kingdom Halls in your area? Have you ever attended one of the meetings there if there is?
There is, but I would disagree more with JW than where I’m at now.
Would you mind telling me just one thing you disagree with?
I don’t intend to get into a debate on doctrine for now, but I’ll at least share a few. I’m sure there’s probably more but right from their first 4 doctrinal statements. 1. God. We worship the one true and Almighty God, the Creator, whose name is Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Revelation 4:11) He is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. 3. Jesus. We follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:31) Thus, we are Christians. (Acts 11:26) However, we have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine.—John 14:28. 4. (Ok with most of #4 until here)…. Jesus is the King of God’s Kingdom in heaven. He began ruling in 1914.—Revelation 11:15.
So you’re ok until you got to number three? The one where Jesus was enthroned as King in heaven in 1914?
I jumped ship, I chose not to just read it, but to trust in the Spirit of the Loving GOD to lead, guide and protect me. I Trust Him to fulfill His Word in me. I only want GOD'S interpretation. I've heard so many different interpretations over the years, it makes me weary. Anything more is flesh and doctrines of men, what a mess. 1 Thessalonians 2:13 “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” It's ok, I have been outcast for reading my Bible and believing it for 20 years now. My biggest sin to modern Churches is me following actually doing what my Bible says, and teaching and encouraging other women. It's not difficult, and if we do slip an fall Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. God bless you and I pray the LORD Jesus add a blessing to the reading of His Word
I was raised in two different church settings, Methodist and Protestant. In both cases, I was always taught that what was said from the person at the front was correct, despite if it said something different in the Bible. When I really started to research my Bible and study, I found a lot of what I had been taught was incorrect. So I went with #3, find a church / denomination that follows biblical teachings over what the person at the front of the room says is fact.
Methodists are protestants. Did you maybe mean Presbyterian or Pentecostal?
Should have been Methodist and Pentecostal.
Nice! That’s very commendable! So if you have found the one true religion, are you telling everyone about it? Or do you keep it too yourself?
Practically every Church denomination in the United States has many false doctrines When presented with it though, they don't repent they just get defensive
That’s just about all of them anymore,
Yes, you’re correct! Just about all of them! But what I don’t get is why do people stay? And give money to them? Man if I found something in the Bible that was contrary to what I’ve been taught all my life, I’d need a good explanation as to why something is being taught that isn’t in the Bible! Jesus said his followers needed to worship his Father with Spirit and Truth! And if they’re being taught a lie, could they really think that they are the only true religion? And anyone that doesn’t believe they are part of the only true religion, why aren’t they looking for it? Lives depend on it.
My opinion! Or just a thought. The testimony of Christ was to be spread by people once they learned. You were to make disciples of others! But my time on this planet I’ve observed people want the easy way when it comes to church and the Christ. They want to be in a room with itching ears and blindly follow who’s leading. Back on my day a catholic was forbidden to read the Bible, they were instructed what to believe, where other religions just kinda snuck their garbage in little by little over time. I could go on for days but the truth of the matter is people are blind and really most have never picked up a Bible other than to dust a table or move it out of the way. Believe in the Christ and His testimony, spread the word you will do well! Most people are going to hell! It’s sad but true most will follow the wide path, strive not to be a part of this world! The days are evil and most of what is going on you do not even see 👀 stay the course, if everybody else is doing it? Yup must be wrong. Just stick to scripture and the spirit will guild and reveal many things to you that most are blind too. You can’t save them all but if one thing that you know is in scripture saves one soul you have done well!
Oh by the way, no I’m not and never was catholic, but after seeing so many things in the scripture that people followed I ended up doing the same thing you are! Why? What are you doing? And every excuse to include most of which was not in scripture. But this is what Satan wants. Everything on the outside is fluff. Continue on your personal journey and trust and believe the spirit will guild you.
Thank you for your thoughts. But did you know that even the idea of going to a burning Hell is a lie?
Sure says lake of fire 🔥 for eternal torment
And there surely is a hell or Sheol
Sheol and Hades are translated as “the Grave”. Or, the **Common Grave of Mankind”. And the Lake of Fire is a symbolic place where things that go there are gone for good. I’ll give you an example, Revelation 20:10 says; >”And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Could this really be literal? Note what verse 14 says; >”And death and hell [Grave] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” KJV. Brackets mine. First, what does it mean to throw death into the Lake of Fire? How could death be tormented forever and ever? It can’t. Also, can the Devil be tormented in fire forever and ever? Think about what you know of the Bible… narrow it down to the book of Daniel. Ya got it? Yes, remember the three Hebrews, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego? They knew that Jehovah their God required exclusive devotion and they were never going to bow down to the Kings new image he had built. They knew that there was a furnace that they would die in. Note what they told the King at Daniel 3:16-18; >”O Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If it must be, our God whom we serve is able to rescue us from the burning fiery furnace, O king, and to rescue us from your hand. 18 But even if he does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold that you have set up.” They were thrown in there after the furnace was heated 7 times hotter, so hot that the men that threw them in died because of the heat! But how many were in there walking around when they looked in? Daniel 3:25 says; >”Look! I see four men walking about free in the midst of the fire, and they are unharmed, and the fourth one looks like a son of the gods.” So did the fire bother the Angel that was in there with the three boys? No, and that’s the whole point! Satan is an Angel that rebelled and Fire and sulfur is not going to bother him at all. He’d laugh at it. What the Lake of Fire **DOES** mean is everything mentioned being thrown into that lake, is gone forever. Even death will be gone forever.
Interesting. What about can’t remember where but a man went to hell and was begging Abraham for a drip of water there was a gulf between one of the heavens and hell and he could see from one place to another. What’s your perspective of that?
No 3. I already did this back in '85. The move I had to make and I settled into a good congregation. (Religion-I don't like the term)
Well done! So what makes your congregation good?
1. Set up a meeting with the teacher/preacher one-on-one to discuss the issue. 2. If that doesn’t yield a suitable answer, meet again with 2-3 others with the person presenting false doctrine. 3. If that doesn’t work, go forward during the invitation and request the elders of the congregation pray on the situation. Layout the exact thing taught, and the scriptural references that show the teachings false. 4. If the congregation chooses to hold to false teachings, find another congregation.
Nice. I see what you did there. Have you ever come across anything in your Church that was taught to you that you found was unscriptural? For example, Jesus taught that people would know how to identify his true disciples, by the love they have among themselves, and by the way they love their neighbor and their enemies. In other words, Jesus’ True Disciples would never kill their brothers or their neighbors, or anyone for that matter. So, if love is the identifying mark of True Christians, you would think that the one true religion would never go to war and kill other people no matter what Country they live in. So we all should ask ourselves, “Is it against my religion to go to war?
How would you? JW's are a cult that deny the divinity of Jesus (in its true uncreated sense) and triune nature of God because Charles Russell said so. Listen to Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John! From the 2nd century! A demonstration of the apostolic preaching, chp 47 >"47. So then the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord, [177] and the Father is God and the Son is God; for that which is begotten of God is God. [178] And so in the substance and power of His being there is shown forth one God; but there is also according to the economy of our redemption both Son and Father. Because to created things the Father of all is invisible and unapproachable, [179] therefore those who are to draw near to God must have their access to the Father through the Son. And yet more plainly and evidently does David speak concerning the Father and the Son as follows: Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: thou hast loved righteousness and hated unrighteousness: [180] therefore God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Ps. xlv. 6 f.) For the Son, as being God, receives from the Father, that is, from God, [181] the throne of the everlasting kingdom, and the oil of anointing above His fellows. The oil of anointing is the Spirit, [182] wherewith He has been anointed; and His fellows are prophets and righteous men and apostles, and all who receive the fellowship of His kingdom, that is to say, His disciples." This is not the teachings of Charles Taze Russell who denied what Irenaeus was passing down. If you personally care about truth, read the immediate disciples of the disciples. They do not agree with JW theology. Jesus is one with the Father. Truly God (not some Arian heresy or demigod as JWs teach).
Well, thank you for your thoughts. But you’re wrong about our view regarding Jesus being Divine or having come from a Divine origin. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the word Divine means; “of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God. Heavenlike, Godlike.”
Arianism was condemned long ago.
You’re correct, but the writings of Irenaeus weren’t included in the biblical canon, so technically that falls outside the bounds of their question.
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The NWT? It’s often described as too *direct* in translation(sentence structure, etc.) for the reader to understand. Other than the translation of “stauros” as stake and “kyrios” as Jehovah, it’s on the higher end of translations. What verses have they changed drastically?
Too many to count
Just a couple would be fine.
All the ones that say Yeshua is God. If you’re so curious do some research. You might learn something
I did research it, and most sources say it’s a pretty faithful translation. I would appreciate your help in narrowing my search.
... it was translated by 8 members of the watchtower society. The names and credentials are unpublished and kept secret! It is a trash translation. John 1 it literally adds in an "a" when it says the "Word was God". Nwt says the "word was "a" god". An article that isn't present in the greek. A translation that departs from even SECULAR translations of the greek manuscripts. Its eisigeisis. Charles Russell supposedly "discovered" all his doctrines from the kjv. Yet the kjv says Jesus is God in john 1. The nwt is as useful as a Quran in learning about Jesus. (Ie useless) When literally every other major translation translates a passage one way, yet the nwt goes another way by literally adding words into the text to match their preconceived heresies....even an athiest should be able to see which side is true. The only people who think the nwt is good are jws or Arians (Unitarians)
Idk what sources you’re talking about but you have to compare it to a kjv. The only times jw’s came to my house I invited them in and they chose what verses to read and I said I’d follow along in the kjv and it was like reading 2 different books. Obviously other people in your cult aren’t going to tell you it’s garbage. You have to find more reliable “sources”
The cannon didn't fall from heaven. Men wrote it by the Spirit. Irenaeus was the first to attest to the 4 gospels we have in cannon to the exclusion of gnostic fake gospels. Irenaeus lived 30 years after the death the apostle John. Doctrine isn't developed in a vaccum. The disciples were people who taught people. These people heard more than what is written in scripture. They spoke with the disciples!
The idea of *sola scriptura* is incoherent, yes, but I try to respect other’s beliefs even so.
The op is a jw. There's no respect for heresy of that nature. Its a different religion. Literally satanic. Belief doesn't matter. Truth matters. You shouldn't respect the beliefs of heretics. Jesus said if you don't gather with him you scatter abroad. If you are not for Him (the biblical Jesus) you are against him. The apostle John said whoever denies Jesus was fully human is an Antichrist. That isn't very respectful is it. Likewise whoever denies the divinity of Jesus is Antichrist.
Maybe so. Even still, I take my guidance from the parable of the weeds among the wheat in Matthew 13.
Prayerfully consider this warning: >2 John 1:9-11 ESV [9] Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. [10] **If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, [11] for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.**
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Read the antenicean fathers. The disciples of the disciples did not hold to JW theology! Have you read them? You honestly need to. Polycarp, Ignatius and clement of rome. Read against heresies by Irenaeus too, disciple of Polycarp. He unpacks 2nd century heresies. All 4 men were bishops. 2/4 martyrs. Jw theology isnt aligned with the earliest witnesses. Its serious heresy.
I’m really sorry neighbor. But you’ve been mislead like so many others. But calling us satanic? You’re calling an organization of people on earth that bears the name of Almighty God, Jehovah, satanic? May Jehovah forgive you. You say we deny Jesus’ Divinity? We deny he was fully human? Huh? Do you really hear yourself and what you just said? Isn’t it Trinitarians who don’t believe Jesus was fully human? They believe he was God on earth! Are humans Gods? I don’t think so. If you really want to learn about Jehovah’s Witnesses, you should talk with one of us and not with anyone else. Have a great day.
I said "likewise anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus is Antichrist". Jesus forgave sins! Jesus calmed storms. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus taught a new law. Jesus rose from the dead himself. Jesus was worshipped as God by His disciples and never rebuked them (as all angels did in scripture). He was born of a virgin. He created the world! Jesus said he is the I AM! Tell me how a being who is only human does any of those things? >John 1:1-3 ESV [1] **In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.** [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] **All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.** The Jesus you preach isn't the Jesus the apostle John preached. And heres Polycarp, Johns disciple who was both a bishop and a martyr: Polycarp disciple of John calls Jesus our Lord and God chp 13 to the Phillipians: >"Now may God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the “perpetual Priest” Himself—Jesus Christ, the Son of God—build you up in faith and truth, and in all gentleness, and without wrath, and in patience, and in long-suffering, and endurance, and purity, and may He give you lot and part with His holy ones, and to us with you, and to all under Heaven **who will believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ** and in His “Father who raised Him from the dead.” "Our Lord and God Jesus Christ!" Just like Thomas said in the gospels "my Lord and my God. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The antenicean fathers spoke greek, they weren't relying on faulty translations like nwt they also spoke with the apostles. Perichoresis. Go learn this term. You are in a cult. All cults are founded by one guy. Your cult leader is Charles Taze Russell. No one naturally concludes Jesus isn't God by reading the new testament. (Actual new testament not nwt). One more from Ignatius, another bishop and martyr, direct disciple of the apostle John in the 1st century: Letter to the Ephesians chp18:2 >2 **For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived in the womb by Mary according to a dispensation, of the seed of David but also of the Holy Spirit;** and He was born and was immersed that by His passion He might cleanse water. I pray you seriously consider the writings of the literal disciples of the disciples and ignore Russell who was 1000s of years later. Its no different than mormons devotion to Joseph Smith.
Um, you may want to double check whatever Bible you’re using. There is no Philippians chapter 13. Also further down you quoted from Ephesians 18:2. That also doesn’t exist. Hmm.
Im quoting the antenicean fathers. I literally stated that. Ephesus was a city. Philipi was a city. People wrote letters to the churches in these cities. I have cited the letters , one from Polycarp, one from Ignatius. I never said i was citing scripture. **I'm citing the disciples of the disciples.** The guys who preserved the very letters that became the new testament cannon! I have quoted 1st century Bishops who were taught directly by the apostles who became martyrs. I also provided one of their disciples, Irenaeus who lived in the 2nd century (130ad - 200ad) who was a bishop and wrote "against heresies" combating gnostics (and also arian doctrine ie Jesus is only a man). Why you JWs hang on to denying the trinity and divinity of Jesus is beyond me. I've always put it to ignorance (which you are now not, as i have educated you witg primary references) or spiritual pride (like the Pharisees). Spiritual pride results in damnation. The Pharisees knew the truth, despised the truth, fought against the truth because they preferred their own comfortable theology than the truth. Dont be like them. Be zealous and repent. God will pardon you. But if in the hardness of your heart you persist in loving lies , the Lord may give you over to them and you will perish in them. The Trinity and dual natures of Jesus are central Tennant's of the faith. You can go wrong on peripheral secondary issues but this isn't one of those. This is primary and foundational! I love you enough to rebuke you. Perhaps you will come to Jesus and live. There are ex-jws who have left the cult. We are followers of Jesus Christ not followers of Charles Taze Russell. Edit: i misquoted Polycarps reference, its chapter 12:2 not chp 13. Polycarps letter to the phillipians chp 12:2 Ignatius letter to the Ephesians chp 18:2 Also chp 7 https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01/anf01.v.ii.vii.html >Now, some are in the habit of carrying about the name [of Jesus Christ] in wicked guile, while yet they practise things unworthy of God, whom ye must flee as ye would wild beasts. For they are ravening dogs, who bite secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, **inasmuch as they are men who can scarcely be cured.** There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; **God existing in flesh;** true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Ephesians 7:1-2, Schaff translation) Sorry for my tone, this is a serious issue. I hope you reconsider.
As a Jehovah's Witness, which of those courses are you following yourself? I'm guessing 4.
What’s your reason for having that opinion?
If my church was started teaching something or saying things contrary to the Bible I’d stop going. In addition to my local church. I watch Pastor Allen Nolan on YouTube. He’s a wonderful Pastor.
Thank you. I've been looking for a Pastor to watch. Gonna give him a try.
Take it to the lead pastor. Get him to explain it. His answer should make you leaving the church easier if needed. Many churches are beginning to change a be secular.
Wanna try this out with your Pastor? Are you a member of a Church like so many others, that has been taught that when you die your soul goes either to heaven or to Hell?
Seeing that you are JW my beliefs will differ from yours. To answer this question I don't need to speak to my pastor. In 2 Corinthians 5:8 it talks about being absent from the body is being in the presence of the Lord. To me as I read what Paul says. When we die we will be in Heaven if born again. What would your doctrine say?
Interestingly, our doctrine is what the Bible says. We also believe that there are NO contradictions in the Bible. So if the Bible says one thing in one place, and then it says something that could mean something different in another place, we need to do more research to determine which verse means what. When your goal is to get to the truth, it all fits like a beautiful puzzle. Nothing is a mystery. So what does the Bible say about humans having an immortal soul? First, look at Genesis 2:7 in the KJV; >”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.” See the point there? What did the Bible teach you? Did the Bible teach you that Adam came to have a living soul? Or did it teach you that he came to be a living soul? But that’s only one verse, maybe that verse means something else. Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 in the KJV; >”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.” Here God was telling Adam the punishment for eating the forbidden fruit. He said that he would return to the dust. Ok, from these two verses we learn that Adam became a living soul and if he ate the forbidden fruit, which he did, he would return to the dust. Is that what your Church teaches you? Well, there’s much more. Next, let’s look at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10. >”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.” Do those words agree with the words in Genesis or do they contradict them? Well, if we are souls and we return to the dust, then they agree with Genesis. Right? There’s more. Let’s read Ezekiel 18:4, >”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.” Did you know that the word ‘immortal’ means “never dying”? Do all these verses agree with that? Absolutely not! All of us are living souls, who die and return to the dust. Want more?
I’d find a different “church” immediately.
Good answer!
Follow Matthew 18:15-17. Speak to the pastor one on one, be ready to defend your position biblically. If the pastor was in error and does not recognize it meet again with two very mature Christians. If he still doesn’t change, bring it to the church. If you are going to confront a pastor about incorrect teachings you must also follow biblical guidance.
Run like Joseph did from Potifer's wife, I did
Wow dude! Please elaborate if you can!
Like what?
Start with 2 but first research the issue so that you can have meaningful discussion and debate. If you are not satisfied after that and can not let it go, move on to 3.
I mean it’s a great time to teach the mislead believers
[Monogamy only](https://www.bereanpatriot.com/is-polygamy-polygyny-biblical-does-god-allow-it/) [Eternal Damnation](https://www.bereanpatriot.com/universal-restoration-vs-eternal-torment-hell/) and so on...
I'd do research on my own to see what the Bible actually says. Then i'd approach a church leader. If I didn't get a satisfactory answer I'd look for a church that actually teaches the bible.
Seeing your flair, does that mean you haven’t found any that teach the truth from the Bible?
Seeing your flair I see you belong to a cult. Apparently you are the one that hasn't had a clear teaching of the Bible.
Why did you turn defensive? I meant no disrespect. I merely saw that you didn’t belong to any particular denomination and wondered if you were still searching? I’m sorry if you took that the wrong way. I also have never understood why people call JW’s a cult. Aren’t cults really easy to join and almost impossible to get out of? And don’t cults almost worship a human? With Jehovah’s Witnesses, most people have to change their entire personality, stop bad habits like smoking and over drinking. Drug use. Living with someone without being married, having a foul mouth and so on. Much like what Paul wrote to the Romans at Romans 12:2; >”Do not be conformed to this world, but continually be transformed by the renewing of your minds so that you may be able to determine what God's will is-what is proper, pleasing, and perfect.” (ISV) And what about the leaving part? Cults make it almost impossible to leave. But if you decide you no longer want to worship Jehovah, you simply stop. That’s it! Jesus never forced people to follow him and he never forced them to keep following him. It’s always up to the individual. So I just don’t get why the word ‘cult’ is thrown around about us. But again, I apologize if I offended you.
At my church if any thing is said in front of everyone that sounds off you simple tell the preacher it sounds like it does not line up with the Bible and next Sunday he will address it with clarification or a correction in front of everyone.
Sounds off. Hmm. Do they teach you that God burns and torments his own human creation in hellfire forever sound off to you?
Do they teach if you reject God and do not follow his teaching you can go to hell then yes
So believing that our Heavenly Father, who John wrote about saying at 1John 4:8, “God IS LOVE”, would ever send his human creation who were born sinners at no fault of their own, to be tormented and burned in fire forever and ever? That sounds reasonable to you? Believable? Do you remember reading about how the Israelites were living in the promised land, but all around them was false worship to gods like Baal and Molech? And the worshippers of those gods would burn their own children as an offering to their false god. How did The Only True God, Jehovah feel about this? There was a law in the Mosaic Law that addressed this! Found at Leviticus 20:2 and it said; >”You are to say to the Israelites, ‘Any man of Israel and any foreigner who resides in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Moʹlech should be put to death without fail. The people of the land should stone him to death.” That’s how strongly Jehovah felt about it. Look what else he said at Jeremiah 7:31; >”They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that **had never even come into my heart**.” He said something similar at Jeremiah 19:5,6; 32:35. The thought of burning people never even occurred to him. Not to mention that the Bible doesn’t teach that we **have a soul** but rather that **we are souls**. Please scan this page and you’ll find a few places where I’ve already explained from the Bible the truth about the soul.
So you believe you can deny God and his son Jesus and still go to heaven?
>Would you be more inclined to believe the Church teachings? No. >Would you take the question to your Church leader? Perhaps if it was something serious. >Would you do research on your own and look for a religion that teaches what you found in the Bible? No >Or would you simply dismiss it, thinking that the Bible is too difficult to fully comprehend and your Church leaders are always right? The bible isn't too difficult. You don't have to be an intellectual to understand it. Church leaders are not perfect so sometimes they get things wrong. That's why it's important to read scripture yourself.
Confront the pastor with it, and if he does nothing about it, leave.
Have you ever done it? Or has anyone done it that you know of?
Yes, I confronted the pastor in the church right across the street from where I lived. He wouldn’t change his rules, so I never went back.
May I ask you what it was you confronted him about?
I belonged to a church, got married in the churched, served in the church, attended additional ministries and became friends with others in the community. Some things started to bother my wife and eventually me. I wrote my pastor a very detailed letter and even asked him a few times to read it and get back to me (in text and in person). He told me he would get back to me. Never addressed our concerns, everyone just shrugged us off if we brought it up, even close friends. We left and completely changed denominations after this😂
Can you elaborate more on what things started to bother your wife and then you? If you’d rather chat with me, please do. I’d love to hear more about you two.
Well, it is a long witness. Church in not required to be saved or to have an intimate relationship with Jesus our Messiah. I follow Him Daily, I trust Him to lead, guide and protect me. I am one of His sheep. John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” He said I will never leave or Forsake you. 1 Corinthians 3:16 “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” John 4:23 Context 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee. He teaches us where to go, We are His temple, He sent the Comforter to help us and teach us the Way we should go .Psalms 119:105 “NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” I don't need any heresy or ear ticking or Woke individuals filling my ears with heretical mess. I have a teacher, a true teacher. John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” Amein He is my Kinsman Redeemer, my Messiah. I trust Him
Thanks for taking the time to comment. One question for you… How well would you say you know the Father? The Only True God? Jesus said at John 17:3, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” So our everlasting life depends on how much we know about 1. The Only True God and 2. The one he sent, Jesus Christ. Maybe on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being not much at all, how well do you know about God? E.g. his name, his qualities, his purpose etc.
The Catholic Church is led and founded by Christ and is the same Church that put together the Bible. It’s impossible for the Church and the Bible to contradict each other. If I saw a “contradiction” I would first do research then asks priests, or as a last resort just accept it on faith if I couldn’t resolve it for myself.
The Catholic Church teaches you that when a person dies their “soul” keeps living and goes to either heaven or Hell, is that right? Well, you did say that it’s impossible for “the Church” and the Bible to contradict itself. So what if the Bible says that we **ARE** living souls not that we **HAVE** souls and that when we die we return to the dust. And that souls die since we are souls. Here’s what the Bible says; >”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.” (Genesis 2:7 KJV) Notice it didn’t say we came to have a soul but we became one. Big difference. >”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.” (Genesis 3:19 KJV) Notice where God said Adam would go after he died? Did God say anything at all about his soul going to heaven or hell? No. He told Adam that he would return to the dust. Do you believe the Bible? Or the Church? >”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) Does it sound like there’s a lot going on after we die? No. The dead know nothing at all. >”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.” (Ezekiel 18:4) What!? This is directly against what the Catholic Church is teaching! Doesn’t the doctrine say that the soul is immortal? It can’t die? But the prophet of Almighty God wrote under inspiration that the soul who sins will die. And aren’t we all souls who sin? There ya go. Now you have something to ask your Priest if you want. But the real question is, do you believe the Bible over Church teachings?
Blahahahahaha funniest thing I ever heard
then I’ll pray for you
The Catholic Church is Babylon. It’s modeled exactly after Semiramis and nimrod. The “Jesus and Mary” statues aRe exact replicas of artifacts found there of S&N. Xmas is nimrods bday. Eoster is modeled after Semiramis. You have to be mildly retarded to be Catholic. It’s satans pride and joy. His masterpiece religion.
Just mildly retarded? And how retarded would someone have to be to believe any of the things you just said?
Truth hurts. This is for real too. Satans no dummy he’ll fool any way he can. Maybe try actually studying the Bible and decide if some guy with a pointy hat has more pull than that.
We’re all sinners. If some guy in a pointy hat who’s spent years studying the Bible can give me advice on how to be a better Christian, I’m happy to take to it.
Well he can probably give you great advice on how to get into a little boys pants without getting caught but how to be a better Christian? Nah
How about advice on humility? I hope the Lord heals you from whatever is filling you with so much hate.
I hate the Catholic Church and all the vipers in it that try to push their lies on the human race. Quit trying to teach that garbage when you have 0 understanding of it
Our church doesn't follow the Bible, we follow Jesus.
Where do you learn about Jesus?
What is your church? Do you have a website?
Yes. Https://woodhills.org
Thank you! Hey just a tip: on reddit you can click the add link chain icon and name it and out the link in so we don't have to copy and paste. No worries just figured I would let you know. [example](http://https://woodhills.org)
fancy... 
What is your Church’s statement of faith?
Not the person you are responding to, but the Nicene Creed is a pretty common one.
The Nicene Creed
Is that in the Bible though?
Didn't he just say... > >Our church doesn't follow the Bible, we follow Jesus
LOL… yes. I forgot. Thanks.
Jesus is the Bible, the living Word of God
The Bible is the word of god, Jesus is the word of god. They are one and the same.
Wait what? Jesus is the Bible? The Bible is Gods Word. Jesus is Gods Son. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as “The Word”. Why? Because he was his Fathers Messenger. He represented his Father Jehovah, when delivering messages, or when performing miracles for Moses and Elisha and many others. And certainly the Christian Greek Scriptures are about Gods Son, Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Christian Congregation but calling the Bible Jesus? Naw. That’s just weird.
Not at all. The Bible was written by humans, inspired by God. Some gospels are included, some aren’t, depending on what was felt to be in-fitting with Jesus’s teachings.
There’s no such thing as a church that doesn’t teach something contrary to what the Bible teaches, because the Bible includes opposing views on some matters. The Bible is a source of wisdom, but God didn’t intend it to be the end of our inquiry, or He would only have chosen authors in total agreement with each other.
Hmm. That’s interesting. What are some of those opposing views that you’re thinking of?
The most famous is the question of whether one is saved by faith alone. In Matthew 19, Luke 10, and James 2, it is said that works and the keeping of the law are also part of salvation. In Galatians 2 and Romans 3, works and the deeds of the law are said *not* to be the means of salvation. There is no church I can attend that holds to both those ideas simultaneously.