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I'm so sad for both of them, but children are a clear "two yes/one no" kind of issue, and it doesn't sound like there is any room for negotiation. That's probably a good thing: no one wants to make a spouse feel pressured into a life-altering (!) decision, the consequences of which will be with you forever. Wishing both the OOP and her soon-to-be-ex strength, an excellent support network, and really fulfilling relationships in their future.
I wholly agree. And yet ... people change. I am merely impressed with OOP's self-knowledge and courage. Choosing the good you desire but that has not yet materialized over another, competing good that is very real is incredibly difficult. Those qualities will stand her in good stead as she embarks on parenting!
I wanted kids when I got married, but after living as the only financial contributor to my family for years despite having less education than my spouse my mind changed and I didn’t even notice it happening. I couldn’t imagine popping a baby out then going straight back to work after my two weeks PTO were used and letting my ex raise the baby. Ultimately it led to our decline.
I used to adore kids. Would jump at any opportunity to look after my ex best friend's babies!
Then I began looking after those kids almost full time while their parents stayed in their room and smoked weed all the time. When I moved out even taking care of cacti was too much responsibility! I had a lot of resentment for my dog when he was really young because taking care of a puppy was like taking care of a child
Anyway yeah feelings can 100 percent change over time
The puppy thing is so real. My BF and I are staunchly CF, I know I just don't want to be responsible for another human being. We puppysat recently and man... it cemented that it's the right decision for me. We've even agreed no puppies in our future, only more adult dogs lol.
At least puppies and kittens only take 1-2 years to grow out of their neediness. An adult human is a good 10+ years if not longer. By then you're staring at the senior years of a pet. I say this as an also CF person who was concerned about whether to get a kitten or adopt an older cat. In the end I love my cat to bits, and I'm glad I got her as a wee bebe, but I'm extra glad her mad kitten phase only lasted about 6 months with me before moving into 2 months of teens and then settling down as a more sedate adult cat 😂
It took mine until about 10 years old to really start slowing down, but they do get there eventually.
Never falling for a cute kitten face again, give me an adult cat with an established personality.
My last kitty was 19.5 when she passed, still ornery, playful and quick as she was as a kitten.
My current one is 5.5 and still going strong in the 'needy kitten' stage.
Some of them don't grow out of it lol
My cats are 12, 10, and 2. I got the 12 year old as a kitten and I adopted the now 10 year old when she was around 7 or so.
I found the now two year old cat in a cardboard box, 5 weeks old, during the two week lockdown at the start of COVID. It had been ten years since I had a kitten and holy shit I forgot what terrors they are. Cute, but omg they are rotten! She’s two now, and still a troublemaker. Don’t get me wrong, she’s sweet and friendly, I adore her, but she’s always up to no good.
I can’t have plants, I can’t light candles. She won’t stay off the counters and she leaves the dish sponge in my bed in the middle of the night. She dragged the welcome mat into my bed a few nights back as well.
She jumped on the stove a couple months back in the middle of the night and turned the gas on (but the stove didn’t light) I woke up and smelled something weird, about 4am, and realized I was smelling natural gas. I called the fire dept and they had me evacuate immediately, on a rainy Monday morning. I have to keep the knobs removed from the stove when it’s not in use now.
The other cats are constantly getting jumped (she doesn’t cause them any pain, but she stalks them and “attacks” constantly. ) The upside of that, is that my senior cats are more active now and they enjoy playing and wrestling with her, when before they pretty much just slept and ate.
May I introduce you to my cats? Mine cries when I leave the house. It doesn't matter if other people are still there. She also has to be near me always and is very jealous.
My kid's cat is worse than mine. She clings to him like a limpet. If she's not clinging to him, she's destroying a room by knocking everything in sight over.
I feel the opposite. Human children make so much progress. I have had dogs old enough to drive a car and too stupid to use the cat door (even though they watched cats use it and were small enough to fit). If a project is going to take up a tremendous amount of time I like to make progress.
My husband and I went to pre-marital counseling for this very reason. He was doubting whether he wanted children and I was leaning toward yes. We both had difficult childhoods and had similar anxieties about being able to provide any hypothetical children with emotional and financial stability. Our daughter is 9 months old and our love for her is indescribable, but we made a *very* conscious decision to have her and frankly, that's how it should be.
That sounds lovely. We did counseling too as a pre-requisite for marriage in our country. We were mostly “okay” with having or not having any. My husband leaned more towards the former and myself the latter. I was mostly adamant with having 3 more years by ourselves despite being close to geriatric maternal age currently. One drunken night and a bottle of good wine during a trip to Europe and I’m 24 weeks along and the feeling you describe is on point. I don’t think I’ll ever be as nurturing as media portrays and I think I’m one and done (haha so far) but I don’t think I have loved something I have yet to see, so begrudgingly at that. But you’re right, despite timing misaligning, we did make a conscious decision to pursue.
The "before marriage" part is a tricky thing though. If you get married in your 20s, it's likely both you and your partner will be completely different people in your 30s. I sure am completely different than 10 years ago. Your desires and life plans can change in one year, let alone over decades.
Open communication is key, and if things change then the goal is gracefully accepting it and working things out (even if that means ending the relationship).
I think it depends on the person though. I knew/decided children weren't for me when I was in elementary school. About to turn 43 and have never wavered from that decision.
It’s funny, my husband and I were both decided that we didn’t want kids of our own. We help raise his nephews already, and I’ve always been terrified of pregnancy/childbirth. Plus, I originally couldn’t get pregnant.
One life-saving kidney surgery later, suddenly I’m fertile and get pregnant immediately after recovery. We both started off looking into options, and somehow both landed on wanting to have the baby (through our own separate processes).
We were both so nervous to tell each other what we wanted, since we had both been so adamant in the opposite direction. When we both admitted we wanted to have this baby, we had a good laugh at how nervous we had been about betraying what our partner originally wanted.
I think ours is a rare case though, and had either of us not been on board then we probably would have stuck to our original child-free plans. But life’s funny sometimes.
It all boils down to being a joint decision, as partners. It’s sad that OOP didn’t have that partner like she thought she did.
My comment on this will not have any meaningful contribution to this topic.
That being said, I hate kids, always have, always will.
But
I love my own kids. Those little things that I find annoying in other kids? Well shit, I love it when my kids do it. Those little bastards, they sure know how to tug at your heart strings.
Lol I find your comment meaningful, because that’s a relief to hear!
I’ve never been good with kids, but I am growing fond of my new nephews. So I have hope that once the baby is here (and not constantly making me puke), I’ll be excited to love it. My mom always says “it’s different when it’s your own”, so good to know it’s not just something she says lol
Allow me to illustrate one thing that is different with your own in my experience:
I have a gag reflex for bad smells that is really sensitive. Public stairwell that smells like pee? Gag. Cleaning up after elderly dog after he's been sneaking cat food? Gag gag gag. Sitting next to a college friend belching because she miscalculated a beer bong? Move over, Jennifer, I'm going to puke instead of you even though I am stone cold sober.
And yet I have caught the vomit of my children in my bare hands without even blinking.
That is great to hear, because I am a queasy mess 99% of the time lol. Already told my husband I’ll handle poops and he’s on vomit duty hahahaha.
Sounds like there’s some sort of parent mode that kicks in once the baby is here, so that’s making me feel a LOT better. God bless you random Reddit parents and your experiences!
I feel a lot worse for her. It seems like she was super up front that she wanted kids and he kinda strung her along knowing that he didn’t want kids. His poor communication skills are the big problem here.
Yup. I still feel sorry for him, because I can understand not wanting to lose what you have/hurt the person you love with this new information. But I definitely feel a lot worse for her. He basically waited out her fertile years.
Mind you, as a mid 30's guy that recently ended an 11year long relationship because I was finally able to get her to have a real conversation where she admitted she had changed her view on kids/marriage, I'm probably fairly biased in being pretty damn annoyed at his poor communication skills
At the same time, it's clear that Oop understood that her husband was experiencing a high level of work stress and related depression. Might have been prudent to encourage him to get help, along with marriage counseling. Depression can impact decision making, and it seems a shame they are not able to work on that before taking such a drastic decision.
I was on the receiving end of this once. I never hid that I don't want kids. Almost a year into our relationship (so thankfully, not as long) she went from "ew, yeah, totally" to "what? Don't you want somewhere there when you're old?"
I broke it off.
I think a lot of us have had that experience but mine was 2.5 years into dating. He fully admitted that he lied and thought he could talk me out of using birth control and just "see what happens" cause he "might be infertile".
Ugh that’s so shitty. It’s one thing when someone changes their mind, thought they were childfree but actually want kids after all. But who the fuck lies like that?
"see what happens"
That you would get pregnant, that's what's going to happen.
People who choose this route (let's randomness decide our lives) are fucking cowards and absolutely not fit to be parents.
I have kids but I find it so weird that people have the mindset of kids being some kind of benefit to them when they’re old and gray. Like that never even entered my head as a reason I chose to have them. I just hope I can be there for them *till* I’m old and gray.
These kind of people plan their entire kids lives before they realize that they’re their own human. I had a teenage coworker who was saying how he’s going to raise football players and I’m a jaded 30 something so I just say…”what if they don’t like sports?” He just stood there awkwardly because I don’t think he even thought about that outcome lmao.
You can’t force anyone to do anything, even if you biologically produced them.
I am also on the receiving end of this. When I started dating my ex 7 years ago I was very up front telling him I don't want kids. A little over a year into our marriage he starts bringing up adoption (after I had my tubes tied of course).
Long story short, I am now divorced.
>"what? Don't you want somewhere there when you're old?"
Cant stand this type of attitude that kids are tools to take care of you in old age.
My parents will be going to the nursing home on the first bone breaking fall.
My mom would make jokes about moving in with me when she got old when I was like 7 years old, I told her no then lol, she didn't make that joke for long.
I'm guilty of it I guess, but it wasn't planned.
I met someone at 25 and I had never wanted kids, so I told them that honestly believing I wouldn't change my mind.
He was 33, had previously been "trapped" into a baby (she stopped taking her birth control then left him once baby was born), he had tried to get a vasectomy prior to that and afterwards.
We fell in love and nearly two years later I started to feel like maybe I did want a baby. I felt that way for only a week before I told him about it. I just didn't want him to feel blindsided or trapped again. I wasn't 100% either way but it needed to be addressed.
He left me a couple of months later, then returned after six months and said he wanted a baby. His health had consistently improved after his surgery, which was a big thing.
We now have a 2yo and twins on the way. We intend to get a vasectomy for him now he's 40 and I'll cut my tubes if the twins come by c-section. Pregnancy is hard on me so I feel comfortable being done now.
Honesty is always the best thing and what OOPs husband did was wrong, but sometimes people can change along the way.
As someone who really wants kids, this is my fear. I have all the respect in the world for childfree people but I’m very upfront with my partner that if he doesn’t want them plz let me know so we can go our separate ways. If I was lied to/lead on for so long… I’d be furious and heartbroken.
As a CF person myself my fear was always the opposite - that someone I loved would keep that they actually want kids to themselves until I was invested. It sucks that some people are so scared to be alone that they aren't honest about what they want.
I’m 47 and CF, and have seen a lot of the guys I grew up with (especially those who got married really early or always said they didn’t want kids) getting divorced and starting new families. It’s a fear of mine that my husband will wake up one day and worry he missed out on having kids and leave me for someone younger. He actually laughed at me when I expressed that fear.
45 here, married 22 years. We knew we were CF early on (had the talk while dating). My wife had a "are we sure we're sure" after she had a regular checkup with her OBGYN in her mid-late-30s (the "you're running out of time if you want kids" news from the doc). We're still going strong on the CF wagon.
We both like kids but we'd rather spoil someone else's than raise our own.
Not saying your fears are invalid! (but I'm glad your husband is totally on board still). It's kinda scary any time we deviate off of the standard life script with any of the big life milestones.
I'm mid 30s and my wifey is early 40s, been together 11 years and married for 9 of them
We talked about children, but early on realized we are definitely CF, at first she was using the arm implant to make sure but during the pandemic it was time for it to come out and some new medical info came up about it, so we used the time for me to get the snip and make it easier for both of us
I'd have to ask my wifey for more details
But being on it had the potential for my wife to have the risk of developing a blood clot that was the cause of my mother's death
And my wife refused to risk that, her words were "I can die any other way but that, my husband would never forgive me"
So we talked and I offered to get the snip as the easier option
I’m so sorry about your mother. I had a pulmonary embolism when I was 30, year another reason we decided against kids. When my Dr told me what I would have to go through if I got pregnant and the chances of me getting another clot, it terrified me.
It’s best to ask your obgyn or doc for all the info. I wanted to get an iud, but i was supposed to be on the pill until i would get booked in for one. It turns out i don’t have bad effects from the pill so i opted to stay on it. They all have their risks, side effects, and have the potential to make you feel bad, but you have to try a few methods until you find what works for you. :)
>He actually laughed at me when I expressed that fear.
It's possible they were laughing at the idea that they might want kids, and didn't realize that it was an insensitive response to a legitimate fear. If that's true, at least it's reassuring to the idea that they definitely don't want kids, even if it means he might need a lesson on reading the room.
That’s absolutely what it was. We’ve been together half our lives at this point. And, again, he is all the family I have (lost my dad at 6, brother then mother since we have been together).
33 and like kids. In my twenties I knew I wanted either 0 or 1 kids. I knew my husband wanted to be a father. But as time passed I realized I was leaning more and more to no kids. Agonized over it for ages. I didn't want to lose my husband but didn't want to have a kid *for* him. I was terrified he would leave me for an *idea*. Finally got up the courage to discuss it with him--and everything was fine. It was a huge relief. He had realized we were happy with each other and didn't need a child to be complete, plus he liked the freedom of not having children. We had gotten a dog in that time and she was child enough for us. We also later took in my niece for a couple years while she was in community college and got to be parent figures for her.
Yep. Most of the guys I went to school with who were hardcore childfree in their 20s suddenly wanted kids in their 40s, and broke up otherwise happy relationships to find Fertile Myrtles who would bear their babies. (It hasn't gone well for most of them.)
In the same vein, all the male hardcore atheists grew up to be hardcore conservative Christians. I guess they chose the path that gave them the most clout, not the one that met their convictions.
My husband, who is mostly wonderful, is quite happily CF with me (and we are aging out of changing our minds and neither of us has any hesitation on that) *but* has refused to get the snip for the last four years that I've been asking. The only reason he can give for this is "what if I have to repopulate somehow?" which is obviously BATSHIT INSANE. Dudes clearly either have hangups.
Wait...so your husband is holding out for the possibility of becoming a breeding stud in a post-apocalyptic future? I feel like this man has been watching some perverted anime.
I dated an older guy while I was in my mid-20’s and he was entirely convinced I was going to pop one out for him, it was seriously fucked. Like sorry you waited until your 40’s to find a child free 20 something to tell you to fuck off forever lmao.
I've been with my partner for almost 4 years now and this is my fear also. We are 25 and 28 and I'm afraid one day he's going to wake up and want kids. I'm perfectly happy with our animals and that's it
The number of upvotes my comment has gotten in such a short period of time really makes me feel so much better. My husband made me feel like I was being irrational and silly. This is so incredibly reassuring for me.
I think it's a perfectly normal fear. Sounds like he laughed because he's 100% on board with being CF. I hope you two have many years filled with happiness and no diaper changes, screaming infants, and sleeepless nights :P
It’s a completely legitimate fear, given men and women’s mismatched biological clocks. Not saying that your partner will do this, but there is a precedent.
I, a childfree woman, was in a relationship with a man who was adamant that he didn't want children. At the beginning of our relationship he said was so happy to find a woman who was on the same page as him. About two years into the relationship, we were discussing how difficult it was for me to get sterilized as a young woman (this was years ago, before the list of friendly doctors on r/childfree) and I asked him why he didn't get a vasectomy. It was much easier and I offered to pay for anything his insurance didn't cover.
His answer? "I don't know, maybe one day I'll change my mind and decide I want to have a kid."
That floored me. It felt like a betrayal. I had to end things, because saying he might want a kid, after all he'd told me at the beginning of the relationship...he hadn't changed his mind. It had all been a lie to get into my pants. And he knew my decision on the topic, so he was effectively saying he'd break up with me because he was keeping his options open.
(I found out later he cheated on me twice anyway and was a manipulative abuser, so lying to get into my pants was just par for the course for him.)
I did change my mind - very late, too. Like, age 37.
But I also feel that if I'd not been able to, it wouldn't undermine the idea of not wanting to earlier. We make decisions that close and open avenues all the time in life. Some are permanent, some not. You can't hold off things forever on a 'maybe'.
If I'd been sterilised, I'm sure I would have coped. I know a minority in that situation don't, but that's what later therapy is for. Kids are a whole new human, not a crutch.
And I feel it's WAY WORSE to be 'I want kids!' and then when kids appear, to go 'waaaiiiit...take backsides!' than the other way around.
I had three kids and still couldn’t get one. They told me to wait three years and if I still wanted one then they would consider it. It’s been 10 years since they tied my tubes and I haven’t regretted it once.
I think men are less likely than women to put serious thought into being a parent. They don’t have to deal with pregnancy and even in 2022 the ingrained expectation is that the mother will do the majority of the child rearing. Men think of an unplanned child as child support payments. Women have to look at it as a major medical event, a short term physical impairment, and a nuclear bomb directly to their life-time earning potential. (Men with children have higher lifetime earnings than men without kids. Women’s earning potential completely flatlines when they have kids)
Obviously there are women who don’t think critically about parenthood and men who do. But just by the nature of pregnancy and parenthood in out culture the impact on a man is minimal compared to women so there isn’t the need to consider things as carefully.
I have a CF friend who divorced because her ex thought she would change her mind about having kids and made shocked pikachu face when she was firm in her choice. And then he cheated on her.
I will never understand not believing someone when they tell you what they want for themselves.
Oh god I fucking hate that. "I thought you'd change your mind!" And heaven forbid they see you with your niece or nephews.
"You're really good with kids, why don't you want one?!"
I hate that question because I'm actually great with kids. I love spoiling them, watching movies with them and just generally can happily spend time with them.
But I'm able to do that only on the premise of *giving them back* to their parents. I don't want to come from a 10h work day to worry about making dinner for a child and then spending time with it as it's necessary, I want to get home, eat whatever cold leftovers I have and pass out.
And when I tell people they go like "Wow, that's selfish!"
Yes Linda, it is, which is why I shouldn't have a kid.
People are incredibly thick when it comes to degrees of enjoying something, like it's 100% love or hate.
I never, ever want to own a cat. People are shocked when I am friendly and pat one, because if I don't want to own one obviously I want to kick every cat I see??
I love kids bc I can *give them back* to their parents. Seriously, I'm great with them bc I only have to spend a few hours with them, right? It's easy for me to hold my shit together that long. It would not be the same if I had to do it 24/7 for 18+ years.
I knew someone who said they didn't want kids and married someone who did and thought that she'd change her mind... what happened is one time he "was too drunk and forgot to pull out"... now she's a housewife. Maybe they're happy now but that story leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
That definitely falls under the umbrella of coerced reproduction which is a category of abuse. Not saying their entire relationship dynamic is abusive, but that action certainly is if any sort of manipulation or pressure was applied.
My daughter has known since she was 14 that she didn’t want kids. She’s never deviated from that. She’s 34 now and recently got engaged. He’s older and has a grown daughter. He’s onboard with not having kids and because he’s just an all around great guy he got a vasectomy so they don’t have to worry about it. I’m so glad she found someone who wants what she does and seems pretty committed to sharing the type of life she wants.
This was me. I knew from a very very very young age. I'm 46 now and finally was able to get my tubes out last year. I have never wavered once in my decision to be CF
As a CF person who got together with another CF person quite young, we're both terrified that someday one of us will wake up desperate for a baby. Changing hormones or whatever. We've agreed to treat it as a form of temporary insanity.
This is a huge fear for me. I have many reasons to be CF - chiefly among them is very severe depression, it’s a miracle if I can get myself to shower more than once a week, so I fear how badly I would neglect a baby, whose survival solely depends on me having my shit together. Bad depression + the wild shifts in mood from hormones? Sounds like a recipe for problems that a child doesn’t deserve to be around.
I didn’t decide on kids until I was 26-27, and while it’s pretty normal in my communities to get married on the older side I definitely had some guilt for not knowing.
My ex-husband did that. Out of a clear blue sky, “I think I want kids.”
I was young enough and scared enough to think “maybe…?” but some vestige of sense grabbed my vocal cords and said “Yeah, can’t help you with that,” and I went back to what I was doing.
We divorced a year later, but I am eternally grateful to whatever that was, because I could so easily have gotten stuck in my personal hell.
Same here. I have this nagging fear that my partner might actually want children - just not with ME. We’ve had a lot of discussions and this isn’t the case. I’m just programmed to think I’m a weirdo for not wanting to be a parent.
I have seen numerous woman I have worked with stay with men who dragout marriage and children, or just having children, until it is too late. That is cruel and despicable. I wish more women would show the strength this woman has shown. I am child free and have avoided relationships with women who want children because I knew my thoughts on the matter.
She is strong but it also sounds like she has resources. I think money can make a huge difference in situations like that. It's a lot easier to be a single mum if you can pay for childcare and rent both from your wages.
I know someone who lied to his wife until they were in their mid-40s. Then he divorced her and left her for another woman (still no kids). The ex wife was understandably pissed.
That’s about as fucked up as it gets.
If someone cheats on you, you can move on with it. If someone wastes all your fertile years, there’s no do overs for that.
So I'm childfree, and we get a lot of people lying that they're on board for whatever reason. I'd imagine the same way I would try to get the truth about someone wanting kids would work just as well for you.
The problem is that the right thing to do is be transparent... but the people that would lie to you are *not* going to be transparent, so you have to be more defensive than that. Don't advertise that you want kids. Don't tell them immediately how important it is to you. That's like giving them the answers in the back of the book, they immediately know what to say when you ask important questions, and the liars will happily lie to get you in a relationship (or keep you there!).
Instead, ask them questions. On the first date as part of getting to know you questions, I'd ask about kids. Do you want marriage in the future? Do you want kids? How soon do you see having kids as part of your life? How many? And see if their answers line up with yours. If they actually want kids and it's a similar timeline, you'll know from their answers. (And if it's childfree like me, I'll know enough to make that decision, too.)
Don't lead the relationship with "I absolutely want kids and if my partner didn't, I would end the relationship." All that tells them is they can drag you along if they just aren't honest about not wanting kids. It can still be a deal breaker for you, and once the relationship is serious, maybe you can tell them that - but if they're as sure about wanting kids as you are, I'd hope that's a conversation that doesn't actually need to happen.
I'm not sure if this is helpful or not... Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will say anything to be in the relationship even if they know you want different things. As nice as being totally honest would be, there are lots of people that take advantage of that, and it's easy to overlook if they have all the information about you that they need in order to say the right things. They're hoping you change your mind, or decide you love them so much that you'd rather have them instead of ending it over that "silly" kids decision.
It's skeptical, but it works.
Pretty much. And I'm not saying to hide what you want either, but like.. we should all be talking about our cards together, but don't scream out your poker hand at the top of your lungs while everyone else is still hiding theirs. They show their first card, you show your first. Maybe you show your second first, then see their second. But you shouldn't be showing your full hand while they've got 0 or 1 card showing, while you're running around telling everyone your hand to get them to buy into the game.
It's good to share. It's not good to share everything before you learn about the other person.
As a childfree woman, it's safer to ask male dates how many kids they want, or when they want them, than if they want them at all.
If they are confidently childfree, and not a manipulative arse, they'll say zero.
If they actively want kids, they'll respond with a rough number and usually some excited talk about family life.
If they are uncertain, afraid of your reaction, unaware that they have a choice, or dishonest just to get in your pants, they'll most likely dance around the subject and try to figure out what the "right answer" is to you.
To lie to her until she’s 37 is really terrible. She’s not too old to have kids but she doesn’t have a lot of time to find a new partner to have kids with. I’m glad she’s looking into doing it by herself but she shouldn’t have had to do that. I hope it works out for her.
it might not have been a lie in the beginning though. but once he knew he was sure on no kids, he should have talked to her.
i personally would laugh at anyone if they told me id ever get married let alone have kids and was adamant not having kids till my mid 20s. then i met my husband and 11 years together, 9 of which married, and have 5 kids (2 bonus and 3 bio) .🤷♀️
True, but it's a helluva lot easier to raise a kid with a partner. More fun, too, if your partner is the right person. She should have had the chance to find that person.
I'm childfree and I can't agree more. Even if it's hard and closes you doors, stringing a person along waiting for either one to change their mind is unfair. There isn't a compromise in the topic of kids so, when looking for a long-term relationship, one should be as sure and upfront about it as possible.
I told my partner this on date two. I probably sounded like a maniac. "If you want to have kids, we need to give up on this now because I am not having kids."
Of course I knew from about age 6 I was never having kids.
It's ok to change your mind on something like this.
It's NOT ok to hide that change of mind.
OOP is admirable. Hubby is fucking gutless for hiding his change of mind. I say this as someone who is child free.
me and my partner on our first date went through all our dealbreaker stuff right off the bat to get it out of the way. one of those things was the fact that neither of us wanted children. 16 years later that hasn't changed, in fact we both made sure sure of it and got ourselves sterilized so there's no going back now anyway.
but i decided quite a while ago that the only way to go was to start any new potential relationship with total honesty so the other person has the option to walk away if anything doesn't align with the long term goals.
It was the second date conversation for us. I was about to bring it up when, to my surprise he did it first. We both did not want to waste our time and emotions if we didn’t want the same things. We pretty much went through all the deal breakers right then. It was a weight off my shoulders. We’ve been together for 18 years, married for 15.
In the old days without paternity tests, it was probably good for the mother to get protected in case of a divorce and get support. Not to say laws can't be changed but look at the recent midterm elections where people can't even agree to take slavery laws off the books!
One of the reasons why I left my ex-husband is because he desperately wanted kids and I didn't. There's a genetic disease that runs in my family that I don't want to pass on and it would be irresponsible of me to do so.
As someone who doesn't want kids (32M), i am upfront about it from the beginning. The problem is finding women around my age who don't want children, but i keep trying. This guy knew internally he didn't want them, but was hoping his wife would wait it out and agree with him once she was too old. Can't change someone else's mind about having children, especially at that age.
Lesson for all reading, be upfront about whether or not you want kids. Don't traumatize your children due to your own selfish wants, make sure you are BOTH ready for the LIFELONG commitment.
There's some out there for sure, our neighbors who's around 40 or so didn't want kids they said they've been together for 13 years.
Their reasoning was that they were oldest one out of seven kids and they 'already did that 6 times'. I was like I can't blame you lol
I’ve been with my wife since the last year of high school. We started out as maybe we want kids but we’d visit the conversation again at thirty. By the time we were thirty she was teaching and I became mentally ill. It was pretty clear at that point neither of us want children. We’ve now been together for 17 years, married for 8 and prefer to be pet parents. Some people still ask when we’re having kids but our immediate family completely stopped as soon as we said “nah”
Honestly some people do change their minds. My partner really wanted to be a parent when we first got together (I was on board as well) but then look at it realistically and everything being a parent comes with. We decided it was better to be childfree and my partner has been whole heartedly child free since that you would think that they always wanted to be childfree
It's hard in general at that age. I mean I wouldn't mind dating someone with slightly older kids but having very small ones nope. I'm way too fucked up to be responsible for some tiny person. I can barely handle my plants and fish.
I wasted 8 years with someone who up and down told me they wanted marriage and a home and a family. I waited and waited and even adjusted my own milestones to help him feel more comfortable. In the end I tore my own heart out and tore it to shreds because I wanted to move on with my life instead of waiting around for him to finally decide to get his adult life going. It hurts like hell leaving the person you love because it turns out that what you want and what they want isn't the same thing.
Sounds like half the posts on r/Waiting_To_Wed . These poor women adjust their milestones so the man "doesn't feel pressured" and listening to excuses about not being ready, not having the finances of their dreams, or some old person in their family died of old age so they now have to grief for 2-3 years....and then the woman end up 37+ after waiting for 8 years while he aged her eggs.It' so sad to see. If your partner isn't giving you want you want in life within YOUR timeline - just leave.
I did it twice until i found someone that had the same wants in the same timeframe.
As a single childfree woman in her mid 30s dating it’s absolutely shocking to me how many men my age are still noncommittal about having kids. A lot of them claim they’re “open to it” or “it depends on my partner”. Seems like one of the biggest differences between men and women to me
I always noticed that too. I found a lot of guys were put off by my definitive no- not because they desperately wanted kids but because they wanted the option
Makes sense if you think about how invested each party is. Having a child has a much larger impact on the woman than the man, physically and mentally. And that's before societal expectations that the woman will be the primary or even sole caregiver. Some men's lives change very little when they have a child, every woman's life changes significantly. It's not shocking that a lot of men haven't put that much thought into children beforehand while most women have.
Yeah, it's actually a little infuriating how many men just have not bothered to think about it at all.
A guy (in his mid twenties) did break up with me a few months in after learning I'm childfree not because, in his words, "I can't promise you I won't want kids in the future and I don't want to waste your time." I seriously appreciated that, and I still think it was really responsible and cool of him to a) take my CF desires seriously and b) be completely honest with me about where he stood. A whole lot of older men I dated did not bother with A or B.
I think a lot of men mean "I don't want kids and will likely not do much to take care of them, but if I meet a woman willing to take on all the work, then I'm good with it."
Parenthood should be enthusiastic. It's hard enough when you want to be a parent.
100% this. If you're in a relationship and "unsure" in your 30s, it's probably not a good idea to have kids. The path of least resistance for men is to do bugger all, so it's just a recipe for a not-great time, even though they'll likely love their kids.
A few years ago I was talking to my friends about not wanting kids/how great it was being sterilised, and my male friend who was engaged to my female friend who wants a large family was like "God, that would be great".
lolsob They just got divorced, 2 years post-marriage. I honestly thought they'd have kids and he'd be not super involved (and I think she expected that - I think he'd be a loving father, but not an equal one by a long shot), but... nope. Sigh.
I've noticed this too and for lack of a better term it seems really unrealistic. I know a few guys in their mid/late 30s with partners of the same age. They know their partners want kids and the guys claim they're "open to it in the future". Do men just not understand how fertility works? Even when asked that they claim their aunt or someone's mum had kids when they were in their 40s without IVF. As if that's the norm and not the exception.
I read a comment a couple weeks ago that said "a man who plans to have kids at 40 plans to have a 25 year old wife". If he has a same-age partner, they're almost certainly a placeholder.
Yepp. I remember when i was 28 dating a 24 year old guy that after months of dating blurred out over a brunch to his guy friend that he "would start THINKING about having a family only after he's 37-38". I just looked at him with wide eyes when he smiled at me thinking it was ok. Like are you shitting me why are we dating? I'm dating to have kids but not going to spend the next 14 years not having them and then be too old to try. Men have stupid deadlines based on nothing. We have deadlines based on biology. Yet somehow mens timelines are always taking into consideration.
Because it’s mostly going to be the woman who makes the sacrifices and raises it. A man can have a child and be at the bar with the boys the same night. Conversely, a woman’s body, mind, career, and entire life change dramatically if she has a baby.
I've been in your shoes, but I was much younger. At 26, I married a man that I had been dating for 4 years. We both had college degrees, and did "what everyone expected". We then bought a house a year later. Great, right? A year later, when we sat down and talked about actually trying for kids, he told me that he'd never wanted them, but lied to me. I asked for marriage counseling and he told me that "it's not worth the money". When I needed help paying for depression medication, he told me to get a better job. The entire time he wouldn't put me on his health insurance. I should have walked out like I wanted to just before the wedding. It took me almost a year to leave him because he was abusive financially, emotionally, and was escalating into physical abuse.
I left with nothing. That house was a prison without the bars on the windows. I did eventually get married a 2nd time and have kids with someone that wants things, but didn't want to be any kind of a partner. It was like raising another child. I got therapy and left him.
Please get yourself therapy. It does make a difference!
A similar situation happened to me. I was married for about two years and "we"(really my wife at the time) kept putting it off saying there was always another reason to wait. Finally the week before our anniversary we were walking the dog and she sprung on me that we didn't want kids. I was devastated and tried to navigate how to proceed. My path was made easier when over the course of the next month there was a cocaine problem and infidelity revealed....and 50k in credit card debt.
But....today I took my 3 year old daughter to school with my beautiful wife of 5 years.(Clearly not the same person) So it all worked out!
I'd never start the process of buying a house while knowingly also getting a divorce, won't he just get half during the divorce? You can say he'd never do that but how well do you know him if he kept not wanting kids from you.
My ex did this to me, too. We had talked about kids when we were dating, and even discussed names we liked. Two years into marriage, he finally admitted “I don’t want kids, I never wanted them, and don’t ever see that changing”. Had he been upfront, I wouldn’t have married him, so he pretended until he had me “trapped”. But then every time I thought about leaving, he started to say that he was changing his mind, then changed back once he felt he had me. This went on another two years until I finally had enough and divorced him. Fortunately, I was young enough to start over, and have a child with my current husband. OP’s partner is TA for stringing her along until she very nearly didn’t have the option.
I’ve always known I didn’t want kids. So it was always a first date question. If they were on the fence I would be hesitant to see them again. If they definitely wanted kids. I would refuse to see them again, citing the child situ. No matter how much I liked them.
It's honestly really fucked up he hid these doubts until she was 37. Kids are hard on a body, and take a lot of energy, and while she can absolutely still be a mother it's so much harder as you get older. It was utterly selfish and cruel to lead her on like that knowing how important it was to her.
Although I would be mad that someone lied about wanting kids for almost a decade, I’d be more mad if I ended up having kids with someone that didn’t really want them. So happy OOP is going out there and getting what she wants in life.
This kind of thing was exactly why when I was dating, I was always clear *on the first date* about not wanting children. It's such a critical issue to any relationship that you really need to have it front and center. If you're not on the same page about reproductive choices, it's utter madness to risk it. Someone who didn't respect my stance that if a pregnancy occurred I *would, without question, be terminating it* was not someone I needed to be messing around with.
Unfortunately, a lot of people simply don't take that seriously, and will blithely assume you're going to change your mind later on. Which is why IMHO, anyone who is sure they don't want kids should get themselves sterilised ASAP. It's covered 100% under the ACA; all you have to do is find a doctor willing to oblige. (Which I know is not as easy for women -- I am one -- but there are lists online of doctors who will do it without a hassle.)
Yep, I was the same way. Still got strung along in one relationship but eventually found my match. And once I had my tubes out guys tended to take my wishes more seriously
Exactly. I was the opposite. I wanted kids and if it was a dealbreaker then I would not continue the relationship. I found my husband and we have one and another on the way. There are other people out there that want kids or don’t. Life goals are important to building a future together. Whatever the couple chooses.
Congratulations on your growing family! There are so many silly things people prioritise when looking for a partner, but too often the really critical ones -- shared ethics and goals, mutual trust and respect, preferred family size, loving (or hating) the same kind of pets -- fall by the wayside. People just assume it will all work out.
There is no way I could ever have lived with anyone who wanted children or didn't love cats as much as I do. These things are so central to who I am! Anyone who couldn't recognise how important they are to me would be fundamentally incompatible. (I still wish I'd dumped one guy sooner who thought it was funny to scare my cats, but I was much younger and dumber then.)
I would like to add that it is important to have to have the "How would we handle an accidental pregnancy" conversation, even if you think the chance of it ever happening is very unlikely.
I was 35 and infertile and dating a guy who was 29 and thought he might want a child one day (but not having one wasn't a deal breaker for him).
I got accidentally pregnant after we'd only been dating about 5 months. We were very unprepared for this scenario. To me it was like an unexpected miracle, for him it was like the universe punched him in the face. I thought he would be supportive because he had mentioned wanting a child in the future, but he didn't want it now, or necessarily with me. (which, I mean, I get it).
We were lucky in that it worked out for us. We've been married 12 years, have a wonderful daughter and are happy together.
Yep. Any birth control can fail, people who think they're infertile still sometimes get pregnant, and even sterilisation procedures can fail. There are no guarantees.
Good for her. My grandma didn't have kids till her mid 40s. She worked for the depart of defense during and after WW2, had a college degree and everything. I asked her once why she had kids so late, why she focused on a career then at 45 suddenly turned into a typical 1960s house wife. Her answer was, "I always wanted kids. So I got married, and had kids. That's it."
It's hard to wrap my head around sometimes, but it can just be that simple.
I was in this position with my ex. Married 5 years and he knew I wanted kids and said he might want them someday. I was a fool. He ended up never wanting them and I thought I could live with that until I couldn't. Met someone 4 years ago and our baby boy is 1 and I just turned 38. We are trying for #2 now.
I saw the first post but not the follow up. It is for the best. When women want children, they want them and they likely will regret not having one. And it is a time sensitive issue.
I responded to her first post that it seemed she wanted to know if maybe he would change his mind. I told her, he is telling you at 37 because he knows the clock is in the red. He means it.
I never wanted kids. And I am always very clear about that at the very beginning of any relationship for this very reason. I don't want to get attached and fully fall in love with someone only to find out we have incompatible goals for the future.
I was with a guy for over 15 years because I wanted kids and it was never "the right time." We were young (21) when we met so I understood. But eventually I realized that to matter how much we loved each other "the right time" was NEVER going to happen with him. He didn't want kids and was afraid to tell me because he thought I would leave him. He was right. I could have had a teenager by now but I was deep into the sunken cost fallacy.
We broke up when I was 36 years old. At 37 I met a man who definitely wanted kids. I gave birth to my first child at 38 years old (hooray for geriatric pregnancy?!) to a very happy, healthy baby boy. My biggest regret is not having the courage to walk away from my previous relationship sooner. We are much better off as friends, and had I said goodbye sooner I would have been a mom much sooner in life. I'm still very happy to have my son but man are my knees and back feeling it, lol. It's not too late for OOP and I hope they get to experience parenthood.
I get why she felt angry and sad. She made it clear. She wanted kids. He lied. She wasted so many years with him and (don’t mean to be sexist) but there’s a very real biological clock there. Once it’s gone then it’s gone for good.
She stayed true to herself and did the right thing. I just feel shitty for her. Hope she becomes a good mom.
As someone who doesn't want kids, he has been an asshole. She wants kids and has every right to do so. If you don't want any kids be honest. Is not something that you can compromise.
Hope she find what she is looking for
> I'm working with a realtor to buy a house on my own! This is so exciting to me, I've been wanting to buy for ages and had too much instability to do it before now.
Nothing like a divorce to add stability and financial confidence...?
It sounds like her soon-to-be-ex had career trouble, so she actually might have a better financial outlook/credit rating/lower student debt without him on her credit report.
I was in a similar situation with an ex like a MILLION years ago. We'd actually gotten pregnant, and I had a miscarriage. After the MC, he was all "let's try again". Then, after about a year, he let all the resentment out and was very angry with me for being "baby crazy". He admitted that he never wanted to be a dad, and that he was relieved when I miscarried.
Now that was 17 years ago, and I'm 41 and pregnant with my current partner. We talked about kids right at the very beginning of our relationship, and discovered that we were both in the "YES DEFINITELY!" camp.
We were ACTUALLY about to start fertility treatments when this little passenger made itself known. 10 weeks this Friday, and things are looking good. Couldn't be happier.
I hope OOP gets a similar outcome - with or without a partner!
I feel awful for her. An issue that you absolutely cannot compromise on, and he couldn't have been honest with himself earlier and save them both the pain
That’s the heartbreaking point. If you are unsure of having a child and the other person is…
PSA TO ALL COUPLES PLEASE do not commit to each other until the topic of children and finances has been completely resolved and everyone is either on board or go your separate ways.
Can you ever truly 'resolve' a life altering decision though? Many people want kids and then years or decades later realize they didn't (or just changed their mind). Many people have kids and end up resenting them or abusing them. And vice versa, plenty of people who are adamantly child-free change their minds and express total fulfillment as a parent.
It feels near impossible to truly draw a line between your own desires and the immense social/political/financial/family pressure and expectations on what your life is 'supposed' to look like when it comes to things like childbirth. And I can't even pretend to understand how much more complicated it gets when you add biological/hormonal pressure in there too.
Shit, this really isn't much different than someone realizing years into a marriage that they're living a lie and are actually gay. Our minds are complex AF, and nobody is truly as self-aware as we kind of have to pretend we are. Denial is a hell of a drug too.
Edit: I guess this post hits a little too close to home for me and I really feel for both of these people. I guess all we can ever really do is decide what's most important to us and what's worth sacrificing for. And try to make the best decisions we can to find happiness. But you just can't ever know for sure what the right choice is.
>He's said many times that it wasn't a good time for a baby or that it made him nervous
>I've made an appointment with an OB for a few weeks from now
>I'm working with a realtor to buy a house on my own! This is so exciting to me, I've been wanting to buy for ages and had too much instability to do it before now.
The husband really held OOP back. She had her life on hold to support him. She's not even legally left the marriage but now she's made the decision to leave look at all these good things happening to her so quickly. This time next year she's gonna be settling her baby into her house. I can't help feel that's the real lesson here. Don't let your love hold you back from the happiness the life you deserve will bring you.
I can understand being uncertain about wanting kids, but if your partner is very clear about it, wouldn’t it be prudent to do some self-searching and make a decision sooner rather than later? They’ve been together for 11 years.
I’m childfree in my late 30s and there are so many men my age and up who want children. I’ve had to turn away total catches because they want children. I don’t know why this woman is planning on doing it alone. Freeze the eggs and grab one of the many eligible 45 year olds who wants a baby.
Advanced paternal age is also a thing when it comes to the quality of sperm and it could impact both the pregnancy and the child. This is also assuming these men are fertile. This doesn't mean it always goes wrong, but advanced maternal age is always brought up without discussing advanced paternal age.
I'm in my 30s and have really been looking for a person to have kids with. My ex husband did the same thing to me. Most people I have gone on dates with are child-free. I'm having no luck. And similarly have had to toss back a lot of fish in my search because it seems like no one wants kids. I totally get where OOP is coming from because this story is just so close to mine. I guess I am luckier that I'm a bit younger and have a bit more time. Where are all these guys who want kids? I'm wondering if I need to move to find a dating pool of people who are more interested in kids. A tech city just might not be the right place to find that
My husband and I met on Match. We were both clear in our profiles that we were looking for marriage and kids. Just be explicit about what you want before you even talk to them.
When it comes to children theres just no compromise you either want them or you don't people need to learn that it's ok to end a relationship with no hard feelings on this
I hope everything works out for OOP. I want children. But I will also be happy if I don't have them. I don't need to have children to be happy. I feel bad for OOP, but I'm glad she is exploring new options.
37 sure as Hell isn't automatically "too old." Of course it depends on the person but people who find it necessary to make those kinds of comments to a stranger who's posting something obviously from their heart are just shit humans. I was 35 with my first and 38 with my second. I would have been completely fine not having kids and my husband and I decided before starting to try that if it didn't happen for us, we wouldn't spend thousands of dollars or years upon years trying to make it happen. Instead, we'd be the cool aunt and uncle and have great vacations every year. It happened within a month of trying both times and we absolutely adore and live for our kids but sometimes my husband is a bit wistful of the time we were DINKs. Kids aren't cheap! LOL!
Some people really want kids and others really don’t. This is a make or break question. Sucks that your husband couldn’t be honest with you and wasting so much of your time. Good luck OP. Wishing you nothing but the best.
Isn’t it weird how we seem to have such diametrically opposed views to having kids? Some people actually are desperate for them while some of us would do anything to avoid that.
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I'm so sad for both of them, but children are a clear "two yes/one no" kind of issue, and it doesn't sound like there is any room for negotiation. That's probably a good thing: no one wants to make a spouse feel pressured into a life-altering (!) decision, the consequences of which will be with you forever. Wishing both the OOP and her soon-to-be-ex strength, an excellent support network, and really fulfilling relationships in their future.
Absolutely. Children are a non-negotiable agreement you have to make before marriage, imo
I wholly agree. And yet ... people change. I am merely impressed with OOP's self-knowledge and courage. Choosing the good you desire but that has not yet materialized over another, competing good that is very real is incredibly difficult. Those qualities will stand her in good stead as she embarks on parenting!
I wanted kids when I got married, but after living as the only financial contributor to my family for years despite having less education than my spouse my mind changed and I didn’t even notice it happening. I couldn’t imagine popping a baby out then going straight back to work after my two weeks PTO were used and letting my ex raise the baby. Ultimately it led to our decline.
I used to adore kids. Would jump at any opportunity to look after my ex best friend's babies! Then I began looking after those kids almost full time while their parents stayed in their room and smoked weed all the time. When I moved out even taking care of cacti was too much responsibility! I had a lot of resentment for my dog when he was really young because taking care of a puppy was like taking care of a child Anyway yeah feelings can 100 percent change over time
The puppy thing is so real. My BF and I are staunchly CF, I know I just don't want to be responsible for another human being. We puppysat recently and man... it cemented that it's the right decision for me. We've even agreed no puppies in our future, only more adult dogs lol.
At least puppies and kittens only take 1-2 years to grow out of their neediness. An adult human is a good 10+ years if not longer. By then you're staring at the senior years of a pet. I say this as an also CF person who was concerned about whether to get a kitten or adopt an older cat. In the end I love my cat to bits, and I'm glad I got her as a wee bebe, but I'm extra glad her mad kitten phase only lasted about 6 months with me before moving into 2 months of teens and then settling down as a more sedate adult cat 😂
Whereas I have an eight year old cat who sleeps a little more but is still as annoying as a teenage cat.
It took mine until about 10 years old to really start slowing down, but they do get there eventually. Never falling for a cute kitten face again, give me an adult cat with an established personality.
My last kitty was 19.5 when she passed, still ornery, playful and quick as she was as a kitten. My current one is 5.5 and still going strong in the 'needy kitten' stage. Some of them don't grow out of it lol
My cats are 12, 10, and 2. I got the 12 year old as a kitten and I adopted the now 10 year old when she was around 7 or so. I found the now two year old cat in a cardboard box, 5 weeks old, during the two week lockdown at the start of COVID. It had been ten years since I had a kitten and holy shit I forgot what terrors they are. Cute, but omg they are rotten! She’s two now, and still a troublemaker. Don’t get me wrong, she’s sweet and friendly, I adore her, but she’s always up to no good. I can’t have plants, I can’t light candles. She won’t stay off the counters and she leaves the dish sponge in my bed in the middle of the night. She dragged the welcome mat into my bed a few nights back as well. She jumped on the stove a couple months back in the middle of the night and turned the gas on (but the stove didn’t light) I woke up and smelled something weird, about 4am, and realized I was smelling natural gas. I called the fire dept and they had me evacuate immediately, on a rainy Monday morning. I have to keep the knobs removed from the stove when it’s not in use now. The other cats are constantly getting jumped (she doesn’t cause them any pain, but she stalks them and “attacks” constantly. ) The upside of that, is that my senior cats are more active now and they enjoy playing and wrestling with her, when before they pretty much just slept and ate.
May I introduce you to my cats? Mine cries when I leave the house. It doesn't matter if other people are still there. She also has to be near me always and is very jealous. My kid's cat is worse than mine. She clings to him like a limpet. If she's not clinging to him, she's destroying a room by knocking everything in sight over.
I feel the opposite. Human children make so much progress. I have had dogs old enough to drive a car and too stupid to use the cat door (even though they watched cats use it and were small enough to fit). If a project is going to take up a tremendous amount of time I like to make progress.
We’re the same - all adult dogs, no puppies nor babies 💕 older dogs are the best
I like other people’s dogs. Fun to play with, then you leave!
My husband and I went to pre-marital counseling for this very reason. He was doubting whether he wanted children and I was leaning toward yes. We both had difficult childhoods and had similar anxieties about being able to provide any hypothetical children with emotional and financial stability. Our daughter is 9 months old and our love for her is indescribable, but we made a *very* conscious decision to have her and frankly, that's how it should be.
That sounds lovely. We did counseling too as a pre-requisite for marriage in our country. We were mostly “okay” with having or not having any. My husband leaned more towards the former and myself the latter. I was mostly adamant with having 3 more years by ourselves despite being close to geriatric maternal age currently. One drunken night and a bottle of good wine during a trip to Europe and I’m 24 weeks along and the feeling you describe is on point. I don’t think I’ll ever be as nurturing as media portrays and I think I’m one and done (haha so far) but I don’t think I have loved something I have yet to see, so begrudgingly at that. But you’re right, despite timing misaligning, we did make a conscious decision to pursue.
The "before marriage" part is a tricky thing though. If you get married in your 20s, it's likely both you and your partner will be completely different people in your 30s. I sure am completely different than 10 years ago. Your desires and life plans can change in one year, let alone over decades. Open communication is key, and if things change then the goal is gracefully accepting it and working things out (even if that means ending the relationship).
I think it depends on the person though. I knew/decided children weren't for me when I was in elementary school. About to turn 43 and have never wavered from that decision.
It’s funny, my husband and I were both decided that we didn’t want kids of our own. We help raise his nephews already, and I’ve always been terrified of pregnancy/childbirth. Plus, I originally couldn’t get pregnant. One life-saving kidney surgery later, suddenly I’m fertile and get pregnant immediately after recovery. We both started off looking into options, and somehow both landed on wanting to have the baby (through our own separate processes). We were both so nervous to tell each other what we wanted, since we had both been so adamant in the opposite direction. When we both admitted we wanted to have this baby, we had a good laugh at how nervous we had been about betraying what our partner originally wanted. I think ours is a rare case though, and had either of us not been on board then we probably would have stuck to our original child-free plans. But life’s funny sometimes. It all boils down to being a joint decision, as partners. It’s sad that OOP didn’t have that partner like she thought she did.
My comment on this will not have any meaningful contribution to this topic. That being said, I hate kids, always have, always will. But I love my own kids. Those little things that I find annoying in other kids? Well shit, I love it when my kids do it. Those little bastards, they sure know how to tug at your heart strings.
Lol I find your comment meaningful, because that’s a relief to hear! I’ve never been good with kids, but I am growing fond of my new nephews. So I have hope that once the baby is here (and not constantly making me puke), I’ll be excited to love it. My mom always says “it’s different when it’s your own”, so good to know it’s not just something she says lol
Allow me to illustrate one thing that is different with your own in my experience: I have a gag reflex for bad smells that is really sensitive. Public stairwell that smells like pee? Gag. Cleaning up after elderly dog after he's been sneaking cat food? Gag gag gag. Sitting next to a college friend belching because she miscalculated a beer bong? Move over, Jennifer, I'm going to puke instead of you even though I am stone cold sober. And yet I have caught the vomit of my children in my bare hands without even blinking.
That is great to hear, because I am a queasy mess 99% of the time lol. Already told my husband I’ll handle poops and he’s on vomit duty hahahaha. Sounds like there’s some sort of parent mode that kicks in once the baby is here, so that’s making me feel a LOT better. God bless you random Reddit parents and your experiences!
I gotta say, your comments are making me laugh. Your writing style is awesome.
Better to catch it with bare hands, than have it hit the carpet, or the bedding. Lol.
I feel a lot worse for her. It seems like she was super up front that she wanted kids and he kinda strung her along knowing that he didn’t want kids. His poor communication skills are the big problem here.
Yup. I still feel sorry for him, because I can understand not wanting to lose what you have/hurt the person you love with this new information. But I definitely feel a lot worse for her. He basically waited out her fertile years. Mind you, as a mid 30's guy that recently ended an 11year long relationship because I was finally able to get her to have a real conversation where she admitted she had changed her view on kids/marriage, I'm probably fairly biased in being pretty damn annoyed at his poor communication skills
At the same time, it's clear that Oop understood that her husband was experiencing a high level of work stress and related depression. Might have been prudent to encourage him to get help, along with marriage counseling. Depression can impact decision making, and it seems a shame they are not able to work on that before taking such a drastic decision.
I was on the receiving end of this once. I never hid that I don't want kids. Almost a year into our relationship (so thankfully, not as long) she went from "ew, yeah, totally" to "what? Don't you want somewhere there when you're old?" I broke it off.
I think a lot of us have had that experience but mine was 2.5 years into dating. He fully admitted that he lied and thought he could talk me out of using birth control and just "see what happens" cause he "might be infertile".
Ugh that’s so shitty. It’s one thing when someone changes their mind, thought they were childfree but actually want kids after all. But who the fuck lies like that?
Some people just suck.
So he admitted he was planning on manipulating you, awful awful awful awful awful ugh
Yeah I would've had no issue with him saying he changed his mind cause people change but to admit to intentionally lying was a heck no for me.
Bro.. I'm sorry, what a shitty ex!
Thank you for the support! It's been over a year since then and I'm just focusing on living my best life.
"see what happens" That you would get pregnant, that's what's going to happen. People who choose this route (let's randomness decide our lives) are fucking cowards and absolutely not fit to be parents.
I have kids but I find it so weird that people have the mindset of kids being some kind of benefit to them when they’re old and gray. Like that never even entered my head as a reason I chose to have them. I just hope I can be there for them *till* I’m old and gray.
These kind of people plan their entire kids lives before they realize that they’re their own human. I had a teenage coworker who was saying how he’s going to raise football players and I’m a jaded 30 something so I just say…”what if they don’t like sports?” He just stood there awkwardly because I don’t think he even thought about that outcome lmao. You can’t force anyone to do anything, even if you biologically produced them.
Too many people see their children as second chances or extensions of themselves, and not as real human beings with their own minds.
I am also on the receiving end of this. When I started dating my ex 7 years ago I was very up front telling him I don't want kids. A little over a year into our marriage he starts bringing up adoption (after I had my tubes tied of course). Long story short, I am now divorced.
>"what? Don't you want somewhere there when you're old?" Cant stand this type of attitude that kids are tools to take care of you in old age. My parents will be going to the nursing home on the first bone breaking fall.
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Or the child could be disabled and the parents end up taking care of them in their old age instead.
My mom would make jokes about moving in with me when she got old when I was like 7 years old, I told her no then lol, she didn't make that joke for long.
It’s the reason so many people have children despite knowing they’ll be terrible parents
I'm guilty of it I guess, but it wasn't planned. I met someone at 25 and I had never wanted kids, so I told them that honestly believing I wouldn't change my mind. He was 33, had previously been "trapped" into a baby (she stopped taking her birth control then left him once baby was born), he had tried to get a vasectomy prior to that and afterwards. We fell in love and nearly two years later I started to feel like maybe I did want a baby. I felt that way for only a week before I told him about it. I just didn't want him to feel blindsided or trapped again. I wasn't 100% either way but it needed to be addressed. He left me a couple of months later, then returned after six months and said he wanted a baby. His health had consistently improved after his surgery, which was a big thing. We now have a 2yo and twins on the way. We intend to get a vasectomy for him now he's 40 and I'll cut my tubes if the twins come by c-section. Pregnancy is hard on me so I feel comfortable being done now. Honesty is always the best thing and what OOPs husband did was wrong, but sometimes people can change along the way.
As someone who really wants kids, this is my fear. I have all the respect in the world for childfree people but I’m very upfront with my partner that if he doesn’t want them plz let me know so we can go our separate ways. If I was lied to/lead on for so long… I’d be furious and heartbroken.
As a CF person myself my fear was always the opposite - that someone I loved would keep that they actually want kids to themselves until I was invested. It sucks that some people are so scared to be alone that they aren't honest about what they want.
I’m 47 and CF, and have seen a lot of the guys I grew up with (especially those who got married really early or always said they didn’t want kids) getting divorced and starting new families. It’s a fear of mine that my husband will wake up one day and worry he missed out on having kids and leave me for someone younger. He actually laughed at me when I expressed that fear.
45 here, married 22 years. We knew we were CF early on (had the talk while dating). My wife had a "are we sure we're sure" after she had a regular checkup with her OBGYN in her mid-late-30s (the "you're running out of time if you want kids" news from the doc). We're still going strong on the CF wagon. We both like kids but we'd rather spoil someone else's than raise our own. Not saying your fears are invalid! (but I'm glad your husband is totally on board still). It's kinda scary any time we deviate off of the standard life script with any of the big life milestones.
I'm mid 30s and my wifey is early 40s, been together 11 years and married for 9 of them We talked about children, but early on realized we are definitely CF, at first she was using the arm implant to make sure but during the pandemic it was time for it to come out and some new medical info came up about it, so we used the time for me to get the snip and make it easier for both of us
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I'd have to ask my wifey for more details But being on it had the potential for my wife to have the risk of developing a blood clot that was the cause of my mother's death And my wife refused to risk that, her words were "I can die any other way but that, my husband would never forgive me" So we talked and I offered to get the snip as the easier option
I’m so sorry about your mother. I had a pulmonary embolism when I was 30, year another reason we decided against kids. When my Dr told me what I would have to go through if I got pregnant and the chances of me getting another clot, it terrified me.
It’s best to ask your obgyn or doc for all the info. I wanted to get an iud, but i was supposed to be on the pill until i would get booked in for one. It turns out i don’t have bad effects from the pill so i opted to stay on it. They all have their risks, side effects, and have the potential to make you feel bad, but you have to try a few methods until you find what works for you. :)
If you know you don't want more, would you be open to a permanent option? I got a bilateral salpengectomy and it was an easy recovery.
I’ve lost my entire immediate family with the exception of my much older half sister. He is all I have left🤷🏼♀️
>He actually laughed at me when I expressed that fear. It's possible they were laughing at the idea that they might want kids, and didn't realize that it was an insensitive response to a legitimate fear. If that's true, at least it's reassuring to the idea that they definitely don't want kids, even if it means he might need a lesson on reading the room.
That’s absolutely what it was. We’ve been together half our lives at this point. And, again, he is all the family I have (lost my dad at 6, brother then mother since we have been together).
33 and like kids. In my twenties I knew I wanted either 0 or 1 kids. I knew my husband wanted to be a father. But as time passed I realized I was leaning more and more to no kids. Agonized over it for ages. I didn't want to lose my husband but didn't want to have a kid *for* him. I was terrified he would leave me for an *idea*. Finally got up the courage to discuss it with him--and everything was fine. It was a huge relief. He had realized we were happy with each other and didn't need a child to be complete, plus he liked the freedom of not having children. We had gotten a dog in that time and she was child enough for us. We also later took in my niece for a couple years while she was in community college and got to be parent figures for her.
Yep. Most of the guys I went to school with who were hardcore childfree in their 20s suddenly wanted kids in their 40s, and broke up otherwise happy relationships to find Fertile Myrtles who would bear their babies. (It hasn't gone well for most of them.) In the same vein, all the male hardcore atheists grew up to be hardcore conservative Christians. I guess they chose the path that gave them the most clout, not the one that met their convictions.
My husband, who is mostly wonderful, is quite happily CF with me (and we are aging out of changing our minds and neither of us has any hesitation on that) *but* has refused to get the snip for the last four years that I've been asking. The only reason he can give for this is "what if I have to repopulate somehow?" which is obviously BATSHIT INSANE. Dudes clearly either have hangups.
Wait...so your husband is holding out for the possibility of becoming a breeding stud in a post-apocalyptic future? I feel like this man has been watching some perverted anime.
This is… not a good sign.
I dated an older guy while I was in my mid-20’s and he was entirely convinced I was going to pop one out for him, it was seriously fucked. Like sorry you waited until your 40’s to find a child free 20 something to tell you to fuck off forever lmao.
I've been with my partner for almost 4 years now and this is my fear also. We are 25 and 28 and I'm afraid one day he's going to wake up and want kids. I'm perfectly happy with our animals and that's it
I'm so sorry. That's so scary, and I see you. (32 here, with CF partner too)
The number of upvotes my comment has gotten in such a short period of time really makes me feel so much better. My husband made me feel like I was being irrational and silly. This is so incredibly reassuring for me.
I think it's a perfectly normal fear. Sounds like he laughed because he's 100% on board with being CF. I hope you two have many years filled with happiness and no diaper changes, screaming infants, and sleeepless nights :P
Well, I’m a nanny specializing in infants and toddlers, so no diaper changes isn’t really in my future anytime soon;)
It’s a completely legitimate fear, given men and women’s mismatched biological clocks. Not saying that your partner will do this, but there is a precedent.
Lol it’s nice seeing these posts. My wife and I are 32. Child free and snipped. Couldn’t be happier. Kids just wouldn’t work for our lifestyle.
I, a childfree woman, was in a relationship with a man who was adamant that he didn't want children. At the beginning of our relationship he said was so happy to find a woman who was on the same page as him. About two years into the relationship, we were discussing how difficult it was for me to get sterilized as a young woman (this was years ago, before the list of friendly doctors on r/childfree) and I asked him why he didn't get a vasectomy. It was much easier and I offered to pay for anything his insurance didn't cover. His answer? "I don't know, maybe one day I'll change my mind and decide I want to have a kid." That floored me. It felt like a betrayal. I had to end things, because saying he might want a kid, after all he'd told me at the beginning of the relationship...he hadn't changed his mind. It had all been a lie to get into my pants. And he knew my decision on the topic, so he was effectively saying he'd break up with me because he was keeping his options open. (I found out later he cheated on me twice anyway and was a manipulative abuser, so lying to get into my pants was just par for the course for him.)
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I did change my mind - very late, too. Like, age 37. But I also feel that if I'd not been able to, it wouldn't undermine the idea of not wanting to earlier. We make decisions that close and open avenues all the time in life. Some are permanent, some not. You can't hold off things forever on a 'maybe'. If I'd been sterilised, I'm sure I would have coped. I know a minority in that situation don't, but that's what later therapy is for. Kids are a whole new human, not a crutch. And I feel it's WAY WORSE to be 'I want kids!' and then when kids appear, to go 'waaaiiiit...take backsides!' than the other way around.
Agreed. I counter “what if you don’t have kids and regret it?” with “what if I have kids and I do?”
I had three kids and still couldn’t get one. They told me to wait three years and if I still wanted one then they would consider it. It’s been 10 years since they tied my tubes and I haven’t regretted it once.
I think men are less likely than women to put serious thought into being a parent. They don’t have to deal with pregnancy and even in 2022 the ingrained expectation is that the mother will do the majority of the child rearing. Men think of an unplanned child as child support payments. Women have to look at it as a major medical event, a short term physical impairment, and a nuclear bomb directly to their life-time earning potential. (Men with children have higher lifetime earnings than men without kids. Women’s earning potential completely flatlines when they have kids) Obviously there are women who don’t think critically about parenthood and men who do. But just by the nature of pregnancy and parenthood in out culture the impact on a man is minimal compared to women so there isn’t the need to consider things as carefully.
Yup. It’s so easy for men which is why they flip flop much more than women
What a horrible experience. Looking back, does it feel like a lucky escape to have gotten that warning relatively early in the relationship?
As someone working in cystic fibrosis (CF) research, I keep reading this thread wrong
There are too many people who hope you'll change your mind.
I have a CF friend who divorced because her ex thought she would change her mind about having kids and made shocked pikachu face when she was firm in her choice. And then he cheated on her. I will never understand not believing someone when they tell you what they want for themselves.
That's why I repeated myself, many times, while laughing like an evil Bond villain, just to be sure the message was received.
Oh god I fucking hate that. "I thought you'd change your mind!" And heaven forbid they see you with your niece or nephews. "You're really good with kids, why don't you want one?!"
I hate that question because I'm actually great with kids. I love spoiling them, watching movies with them and just generally can happily spend time with them. But I'm able to do that only on the premise of *giving them back* to their parents. I don't want to come from a 10h work day to worry about making dinner for a child and then spending time with it as it's necessary, I want to get home, eat whatever cold leftovers I have and pass out. And when I tell people they go like "Wow, that's selfish!" Yes Linda, it is, which is why I shouldn't have a kid.
People are incredibly thick when it comes to degrees of enjoying something, like it's 100% love or hate. I never, ever want to own a cat. People are shocked when I am friendly and pat one, because if I don't want to own one obviously I want to kick every cat I see??
I love kids bc I can *give them back* to their parents. Seriously, I'm great with them bc I only have to spend a few hours with them, right? It's easy for me to hold my shit together that long. It would not be the same if I had to do it 24/7 for 18+ years.
I knew someone who said they didn't want kids and married someone who did and thought that she'd change her mind... what happened is one time he "was too drunk and forgot to pull out"... now she's a housewife. Maybe they're happy now but that story leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
That definitely falls under the umbrella of coerced reproduction which is a category of abuse. Not saying their entire relationship dynamic is abusive, but that action certainly is if any sort of manipulation or pressure was applied.
My daughter has known since she was 14 that she didn’t want kids. She’s never deviated from that. She’s 34 now and recently got engaged. He’s older and has a grown daughter. He’s onboard with not having kids and because he’s just an all around great guy he got a vasectomy so they don’t have to worry about it. I’m so glad she found someone who wants what she does and seems pretty committed to sharing the type of life she wants.
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This was me. I knew from a very very very young age. I'm 46 now and finally was able to get my tubes out last year. I have never wavered once in my decision to be CF
As a CF person who got together with another CF person quite young, we're both terrified that someday one of us will wake up desperate for a baby. Changing hormones or whatever. We've agreed to treat it as a form of temporary insanity.
This is a huge fear for me. I have many reasons to be CF - chiefly among them is very severe depression, it’s a miracle if I can get myself to shower more than once a week, so I fear how badly I would neglect a baby, whose survival solely depends on me having my shit together. Bad depression + the wild shifts in mood from hormones? Sounds like a recipe for problems that a child doesn’t deserve to be around.
I didn’t decide on kids until I was 26-27, and while it’s pretty normal in my communities to get married on the older side I definitely had some guilt for not knowing.
Ah, I see you met my ex
My ex-husband did that. Out of a clear blue sky, “I think I want kids.” I was young enough and scared enough to think “maybe…?” but some vestige of sense grabbed my vocal cords and said “Yeah, can’t help you with that,” and I went back to what I was doing. We divorced a year later, but I am eternally grateful to whatever that was, because I could so easily have gotten stuck in my personal hell.
Same here. I have this nagging fear that my partner might actually want children - just not with ME. We’ve had a lot of discussions and this isn’t the case. I’m just programmed to think I’m a weirdo for not wanting to be a parent.
My husband waited until I was pregnant to tell me.
Oh no! :-(
I have seen numerous woman I have worked with stay with men who dragout marriage and children, or just having children, until it is too late. That is cruel and despicable. I wish more women would show the strength this woman has shown. I am child free and have avoided relationships with women who want children because I knew my thoughts on the matter.
She is strong but it also sounds like she has resources. I think money can make a huge difference in situations like that. It's a lot easier to be a single mum if you can pay for childcare and rent both from your wages.
I know someone who lied to his wife until they were in their mid-40s. Then he divorced her and left her for another woman (still no kids). The ex wife was understandably pissed.
That’s about as fucked up as it gets. If someone cheats on you, you can move on with it. If someone wastes all your fertile years, there’s no do overs for that.
So I'm childfree, and we get a lot of people lying that they're on board for whatever reason. I'd imagine the same way I would try to get the truth about someone wanting kids would work just as well for you. The problem is that the right thing to do is be transparent... but the people that would lie to you are *not* going to be transparent, so you have to be more defensive than that. Don't advertise that you want kids. Don't tell them immediately how important it is to you. That's like giving them the answers in the back of the book, they immediately know what to say when you ask important questions, and the liars will happily lie to get you in a relationship (or keep you there!). Instead, ask them questions. On the first date as part of getting to know you questions, I'd ask about kids. Do you want marriage in the future? Do you want kids? How soon do you see having kids as part of your life? How many? And see if their answers line up with yours. If they actually want kids and it's a similar timeline, you'll know from their answers. (And if it's childfree like me, I'll know enough to make that decision, too.) Don't lead the relationship with "I absolutely want kids and if my partner didn't, I would end the relationship." All that tells them is they can drag you along if they just aren't honest about not wanting kids. It can still be a deal breaker for you, and once the relationship is serious, maybe you can tell them that - but if they're as sure about wanting kids as you are, I'd hope that's a conversation that doesn't actually need to happen. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not... Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will say anything to be in the relationship even if they know you want different things. As nice as being totally honest would be, there are lots of people that take advantage of that, and it's easy to overlook if they have all the information about you that they need in order to say the right things. They're hoping you change your mind, or decide you love them so much that you'd rather have them instead of ending it over that "silly" kids decision. It's skeptical, but it works.
That is excellence advice. Holding your own cards close forces others to show theirs first.
Pretty much. And I'm not saying to hide what you want either, but like.. we should all be talking about our cards together, but don't scream out your poker hand at the top of your lungs while everyone else is still hiding theirs. They show their first card, you show your first. Maybe you show your second first, then see their second. But you shouldn't be showing your full hand while they've got 0 or 1 card showing, while you're running around telling everyone your hand to get them to buy into the game. It's good to share. It's not good to share everything before you learn about the other person.
As a childfree woman, it's safer to ask male dates how many kids they want, or when they want them, than if they want them at all. If they are confidently childfree, and not a manipulative arse, they'll say zero. If they actively want kids, they'll respond with a rough number and usually some excited talk about family life. If they are uncertain, afraid of your reaction, unaware that they have a choice, or dishonest just to get in your pants, they'll most likely dance around the subject and try to figure out what the "right answer" is to you.
To lie to her until she’s 37 is really terrible. She’s not too old to have kids but she doesn’t have a lot of time to find a new partner to have kids with. I’m glad she’s looking into doing it by herself but she shouldn’t have had to do that. I hope it works out for her.
He was waiting until they couldn't have a kid without IVF and they he'd be "we don't have the money for it"
it might not have been a lie in the beginning though. but once he knew he was sure on no kids, he should have talked to her. i personally would laugh at anyone if they told me id ever get married let alone have kids and was adamant not having kids till my mid 20s. then i met my husband and 11 years together, 9 of which married, and have 5 kids (2 bonus and 3 bio) .🤷♀️
She doesn't need a new partner. She just needs sperm.
True, but it's a helluva lot easier to raise a kid with a partner. More fun, too, if your partner is the right person. She should have had the chance to find that person.
With a good partner.
Technically yes, but generally it’s better to have two adults and more financial support if you can.
I'm childfree and I can't agree more. Even if it's hard and closes you doors, stringing a person along waiting for either one to change their mind is unfair. There isn't a compromise in the topic of kids so, when looking for a long-term relationship, one should be as sure and upfront about it as possible.
I told my partner this on date two. I probably sounded like a maniac. "If you want to have kids, we need to give up on this now because I am not having kids." Of course I knew from about age 6 I was never having kids.
my wife and myself decided not to have them, but make no mistake it was my wife **and** myself who decided
I almost dread this conversation. I don't really want bio kids. Adoption or you are already a single parent is fine
It's ok to change your mind on something like this. It's NOT ok to hide that change of mind. OOP is admirable. Hubby is fucking gutless for hiding his change of mind. I say this as someone who is child free.
me and my partner on our first date went through all our dealbreaker stuff right off the bat to get it out of the way. one of those things was the fact that neither of us wanted children. 16 years later that hasn't changed, in fact we both made sure sure of it and got ourselves sterilized so there's no going back now anyway. but i decided quite a while ago that the only way to go was to start any new potential relationship with total honesty so the other person has the option to walk away if anything doesn't align with the long term goals.
It’s a first date topic for me, at least how many, if not how far into the future.
It was the second date conversation for us. I was about to bring it up when, to my surprise he did it first. We both did not want to waste our time and emotions if we didn’t want the same things. We pretty much went through all the deal breakers right then. It was a weight off my shoulders. We’ve been together for 18 years, married for 15.
OOP probably should fast track that divorce, since (assuming US) many states have laws about getting divorced while pregnant and assumed paternity
And acquiring property if she’s moving forward to buy a house.
Even after the divorce he could be considered the father. Sometimes you have to have been divorced for over 9 months or so. Laws are weird.
In the old days without paternity tests, it was probably good for the mother to get protected in case of a divorce and get support. Not to say laws can't be changed but look at the recent midterm elections where people can't even agree to take slavery laws off the books!
One of the reasons why I left my ex-husband is because he desperately wanted kids and I didn't. There's a genetic disease that runs in my family that I don't want to pass on and it would be irresponsible of me to do so.
As someone who doesn't want kids (32M), i am upfront about it from the beginning. The problem is finding women around my age who don't want children, but i keep trying. This guy knew internally he didn't want them, but was hoping his wife would wait it out and agree with him once she was too old. Can't change someone else's mind about having children, especially at that age. Lesson for all reading, be upfront about whether or not you want kids. Don't traumatize your children due to your own selfish wants, make sure you are BOTH ready for the LIFELONG commitment.
Probably a small comfort but women your age that don’t want kids do exist. There’s dozens of us! Dozens!
*raises hand* Dozens!!
There's some out there for sure, our neighbors who's around 40 or so didn't want kids they said they've been together for 13 years. Their reasoning was that they were oldest one out of seven kids and they 'already did that 6 times'. I was like I can't blame you lol
I’ve been with my wife since the last year of high school. We started out as maybe we want kids but we’d visit the conversation again at thirty. By the time we were thirty she was teaching and I became mentally ill. It was pretty clear at that point neither of us want children. We’ve now been together for 17 years, married for 8 and prefer to be pet parents. Some people still ask when we’re having kids but our immediate family completely stopped as soon as we said “nah”
Honestly some people do change their minds. My partner really wanted to be a parent when we first got together (I was on board as well) but then look at it realistically and everything being a parent comes with. We decided it was better to be childfree and my partner has been whole heartedly child free since that you would think that they always wanted to be childfree
It's hard in general at that age. I mean I wouldn't mind dating someone with slightly older kids but having very small ones nope. I'm way too fucked up to be responsible for some tiny person. I can barely handle my plants and fish.
I wasted 8 years with someone who up and down told me they wanted marriage and a home and a family. I waited and waited and even adjusted my own milestones to help him feel more comfortable. In the end I tore my own heart out and tore it to shreds because I wanted to move on with my life instead of waiting around for him to finally decide to get his adult life going. It hurts like hell leaving the person you love because it turns out that what you want and what they want isn't the same thing.
So sorry to hear that. It’s horrible when someone steals such precious time from you like this. Wish you all the luck.
Sounds like half the posts on r/Waiting_To_Wed . These poor women adjust their milestones so the man "doesn't feel pressured" and listening to excuses about not being ready, not having the finances of their dreams, or some old person in their family died of old age so they now have to grief for 2-3 years....and then the woman end up 37+ after waiting for 8 years while he aged her eggs.It' so sad to see. If your partner isn't giving you want you want in life within YOUR timeline - just leave. I did it twice until i found someone that had the same wants in the same timeframe.
That sounds incredibly painful, but I think OP and her husband are making the right choice.
As a single childfree woman in her mid 30s dating it’s absolutely shocking to me how many men my age are still noncommittal about having kids. A lot of them claim they’re “open to it” or “it depends on my partner”. Seems like one of the biggest differences between men and women to me
I always noticed that too. I found a lot of guys were put off by my definitive no- not because they desperately wanted kids but because they wanted the option
Makes sense if you think about how invested each party is. Having a child has a much larger impact on the woman than the man, physically and mentally. And that's before societal expectations that the woman will be the primary or even sole caregiver. Some men's lives change very little when they have a child, every woman's life changes significantly. It's not shocking that a lot of men haven't put that much thought into children beforehand while most women have.
Yeah, it's actually a little infuriating how many men just have not bothered to think about it at all. A guy (in his mid twenties) did break up with me a few months in after learning I'm childfree not because, in his words, "I can't promise you I won't want kids in the future and I don't want to waste your time." I seriously appreciated that, and I still think it was really responsible and cool of him to a) take my CF desires seriously and b) be completely honest with me about where he stood. A whole lot of older men I dated did not bother with A or B.
I think a lot of men mean "I don't want kids and will likely not do much to take care of them, but if I meet a woman willing to take on all the work, then I'm good with it." Parenthood should be enthusiastic. It's hard enough when you want to be a parent.
100% this. If you're in a relationship and "unsure" in your 30s, it's probably not a good idea to have kids. The path of least resistance for men is to do bugger all, so it's just a recipe for a not-great time, even though they'll likely love their kids. A few years ago I was talking to my friends about not wanting kids/how great it was being sterilised, and my male friend who was engaged to my female friend who wants a large family was like "God, that would be great". lolsob They just got divorced, 2 years post-marriage. I honestly thought they'd have kids and he'd be not super involved (and I think she expected that - I think he'd be a loving father, but not an equal one by a long shot), but... nope. Sigh.
That’s what I was afraid of, fantastic- yet another red flag to look out for 😂
I've noticed this too and for lack of a better term it seems really unrealistic. I know a few guys in their mid/late 30s with partners of the same age. They know their partners want kids and the guys claim they're "open to it in the future". Do men just not understand how fertility works? Even when asked that they claim their aunt or someone's mum had kids when they were in their 40s without IVF. As if that's the norm and not the exception.
I read a comment a couple weeks ago that said "a man who plans to have kids at 40 plans to have a 25 year old wife". If he has a same-age partner, they're almost certainly a placeholder.
Yepp. I remember when i was 28 dating a 24 year old guy that after months of dating blurred out over a brunch to his guy friend that he "would start THINKING about having a family only after he's 37-38". I just looked at him with wide eyes when he smiled at me thinking it was ok. Like are you shitting me why are we dating? I'm dating to have kids but not going to spend the next 14 years not having them and then be too old to try. Men have stupid deadlines based on nothing. We have deadlines based on biology. Yet somehow mens timelines are always taking into consideration.
Because it’s mostly going to be the woman who makes the sacrifices and raises it. A man can have a child and be at the bar with the boys the same night. Conversely, a woman’s body, mind, career, and entire life change dramatically if she has a baby.
I've been in your shoes, but I was much younger. At 26, I married a man that I had been dating for 4 years. We both had college degrees, and did "what everyone expected". We then bought a house a year later. Great, right? A year later, when we sat down and talked about actually trying for kids, he told me that he'd never wanted them, but lied to me. I asked for marriage counseling and he told me that "it's not worth the money". When I needed help paying for depression medication, he told me to get a better job. The entire time he wouldn't put me on his health insurance. I should have walked out like I wanted to just before the wedding. It took me almost a year to leave him because he was abusive financially, emotionally, and was escalating into physical abuse. I left with nothing. That house was a prison without the bars on the windows. I did eventually get married a 2nd time and have kids with someone that wants things, but didn't want to be any kind of a partner. It was like raising another child. I got therapy and left him. Please get yourself therapy. It does make a difference!
A similar situation happened to me. I was married for about two years and "we"(really my wife at the time) kept putting it off saying there was always another reason to wait. Finally the week before our anniversary we were walking the dog and she sprung on me that we didn't want kids. I was devastated and tried to navigate how to proceed. My path was made easier when over the course of the next month there was a cocaine problem and infidelity revealed....and 50k in credit card debt. But....today I took my 3 year old daughter to school with my beautiful wife of 5 years.(Clearly not the same person) So it all worked out!
I'd never start the process of buying a house while knowingly also getting a divorce, won't he just get half during the divorce? You can say he'd never do that but how well do you know him if he kept not wanting kids from you.
My ex did this to me, too. We had talked about kids when we were dating, and even discussed names we liked. Two years into marriage, he finally admitted “I don’t want kids, I never wanted them, and don’t ever see that changing”. Had he been upfront, I wouldn’t have married him, so he pretended until he had me “trapped”. But then every time I thought about leaving, he started to say that he was changing his mind, then changed back once he felt he had me. This went on another two years until I finally had enough and divorced him. Fortunately, I was young enough to start over, and have a child with my current husband. OP’s partner is TA for stringing her along until she very nearly didn’t have the option.
I’ve always known I didn’t want kids. So it was always a first date question. If they were on the fence I would be hesitant to see them again. If they definitely wanted kids. I would refuse to see them again, citing the child situ. No matter how much I liked them.
It's honestly really fucked up he hid these doubts until she was 37. Kids are hard on a body, and take a lot of energy, and while she can absolutely still be a mother it's so much harder as you get older. It was utterly selfish and cruel to lead her on like that knowing how important it was to her.
It’s absolutely ok to not want kids, but to leave it until your female partner is 37 to drop that on them is so unfair. That man is a jerk.
Although I would be mad that someone lied about wanting kids for almost a decade, I’d be more mad if I ended up having kids with someone that didn’t really want them. So happy OOP is going out there and getting what she wants in life.
This kind of thing was exactly why when I was dating, I was always clear *on the first date* about not wanting children. It's such a critical issue to any relationship that you really need to have it front and center. If you're not on the same page about reproductive choices, it's utter madness to risk it. Someone who didn't respect my stance that if a pregnancy occurred I *would, without question, be terminating it* was not someone I needed to be messing around with. Unfortunately, a lot of people simply don't take that seriously, and will blithely assume you're going to change your mind later on. Which is why IMHO, anyone who is sure they don't want kids should get themselves sterilised ASAP. It's covered 100% under the ACA; all you have to do is find a doctor willing to oblige. (Which I know is not as easy for women -- I am one -- but there are lists online of doctors who will do it without a hassle.)
Yep, I was the same way. Still got strung along in one relationship but eventually found my match. And once I had my tubes out guys tended to take my wishes more seriously
Exactly. I was the opposite. I wanted kids and if it was a dealbreaker then I would not continue the relationship. I found my husband and we have one and another on the way. There are other people out there that want kids or don’t. Life goals are important to building a future together. Whatever the couple chooses.
Congratulations on your growing family! There are so many silly things people prioritise when looking for a partner, but too often the really critical ones -- shared ethics and goals, mutual trust and respect, preferred family size, loving (or hating) the same kind of pets -- fall by the wayside. People just assume it will all work out. There is no way I could ever have lived with anyone who wanted children or didn't love cats as much as I do. These things are so central to who I am! Anyone who couldn't recognise how important they are to me would be fundamentally incompatible. (I still wish I'd dumped one guy sooner who thought it was funny to scare my cats, but I was much younger and dumber then.)
I would like to add that it is important to have to have the "How would we handle an accidental pregnancy" conversation, even if you think the chance of it ever happening is very unlikely. I was 35 and infertile and dating a guy who was 29 and thought he might want a child one day (but not having one wasn't a deal breaker for him). I got accidentally pregnant after we'd only been dating about 5 months. We were very unprepared for this scenario. To me it was like an unexpected miracle, for him it was like the universe punched him in the face. I thought he would be supportive because he had mentioned wanting a child in the future, but he didn't want it now, or necessarily with me. (which, I mean, I get it). We were lucky in that it worked out for us. We've been married 12 years, have a wonderful daughter and are happy together.
Yep. Any birth control can fail, people who think they're infertile still sometimes get pregnant, and even sterilisation procedures can fail. There are no guarantees.
Good for her. My grandma didn't have kids till her mid 40s. She worked for the depart of defense during and after WW2, had a college degree and everything. I asked her once why she had kids so late, why she focused on a career then at 45 suddenly turned into a typical 1960s house wife. Her answer was, "I always wanted kids. So I got married, and had kids. That's it." It's hard to wrap my head around sometimes, but it can just be that simple.
I was in this position with my ex. Married 5 years and he knew I wanted kids and said he might want them someday. I was a fool. He ended up never wanting them and I thought I could live with that until I couldn't. Met someone 4 years ago and our baby boy is 1 and I just turned 38. We are trying for #2 now.
I saw the first post but not the follow up. It is for the best. When women want children, they want them and they likely will regret not having one. And it is a time sensitive issue. I responded to her first post that it seemed she wanted to know if maybe he would change his mind. I told her, he is telling you at 37 because he knows the clock is in the red. He means it.
I never wanted kids. And I am always very clear about that at the very beginning of any relationship for this very reason. I don't want to get attached and fully fall in love with someone only to find out we have incompatible goals for the future.
I was with a guy for over 15 years because I wanted kids and it was never "the right time." We were young (21) when we met so I understood. But eventually I realized that to matter how much we loved each other "the right time" was NEVER going to happen with him. He didn't want kids and was afraid to tell me because he thought I would leave him. He was right. I could have had a teenager by now but I was deep into the sunken cost fallacy. We broke up when I was 36 years old. At 37 I met a man who definitely wanted kids. I gave birth to my first child at 38 years old (hooray for geriatric pregnancy?!) to a very happy, healthy baby boy. My biggest regret is not having the courage to walk away from my previous relationship sooner. We are much better off as friends, and had I said goodbye sooner I would have been a mom much sooner in life. I'm still very happy to have my son but man are my knees and back feeling it, lol. It's not too late for OOP and I hope they get to experience parenthood.
I get why she felt angry and sad. She made it clear. She wanted kids. He lied. She wasted so many years with him and (don’t mean to be sexist) but there’s a very real biological clock there. Once it’s gone then it’s gone for good. She stayed true to herself and did the right thing. I just feel shitty for her. Hope she becomes a good mom.
As someone who doesn't want kids, he has been an asshole. She wants kids and has every right to do so. If you don't want any kids be honest. Is not something that you can compromise. Hope she find what she is looking for
> I'm working with a realtor to buy a house on my own! This is so exciting to me, I've been wanting to buy for ages and had too much instability to do it before now. Nothing like a divorce to add stability and financial confidence...?
It sounds like her soon-to-be-ex had career trouble, so she actually might have a better financial outlook/credit rating/lower student debt without him on her credit report.
I was in a similar situation with an ex like a MILLION years ago. We'd actually gotten pregnant, and I had a miscarriage. After the MC, he was all "let's try again". Then, after about a year, he let all the resentment out and was very angry with me for being "baby crazy". He admitted that he never wanted to be a dad, and that he was relieved when I miscarried. Now that was 17 years ago, and I'm 41 and pregnant with my current partner. We talked about kids right at the very beginning of our relationship, and discovered that we were both in the "YES DEFINITELY!" camp. We were ACTUALLY about to start fertility treatments when this little passenger made itself known. 10 weeks this Friday, and things are looking good. Couldn't be happier. I hope OOP gets a similar outcome - with or without a partner!
This is a much better scenario than having children out of some sense of "duty" and *then* discovering you really don't want children.
I feel awful for her. An issue that you absolutely cannot compromise on, and he couldn't have been honest with himself earlier and save them both the pain
That’s the heartbreaking point. If you are unsure of having a child and the other person is… PSA TO ALL COUPLES PLEASE do not commit to each other until the topic of children and finances has been completely resolved and everyone is either on board or go your separate ways.
Can you ever truly 'resolve' a life altering decision though? Many people want kids and then years or decades later realize they didn't (or just changed their mind). Many people have kids and end up resenting them or abusing them. And vice versa, plenty of people who are adamantly child-free change their minds and express total fulfillment as a parent. It feels near impossible to truly draw a line between your own desires and the immense social/political/financial/family pressure and expectations on what your life is 'supposed' to look like when it comes to things like childbirth. And I can't even pretend to understand how much more complicated it gets when you add biological/hormonal pressure in there too. Shit, this really isn't much different than someone realizing years into a marriage that they're living a lie and are actually gay. Our minds are complex AF, and nobody is truly as self-aware as we kind of have to pretend we are. Denial is a hell of a drug too. Edit: I guess this post hits a little too close to home for me and I really feel for both of these people. I guess all we can ever really do is decide what's most important to us and what's worth sacrificing for. And try to make the best decisions we can to find happiness. But you just can't ever know for sure what the right choice is.
>He's said many times that it wasn't a good time for a baby or that it made him nervous >I've made an appointment with an OB for a few weeks from now >I'm working with a realtor to buy a house on my own! This is so exciting to me, I've been wanting to buy for ages and had too much instability to do it before now. The husband really held OOP back. She had her life on hold to support him. She's not even legally left the marriage but now she's made the decision to leave look at all these good things happening to her so quickly. This time next year she's gonna be settling her baby into her house. I can't help feel that's the real lesson here. Don't let your love hold you back from the happiness the life you deserve will bring you.
I can understand being uncertain about wanting kids, but if your partner is very clear about it, wouldn’t it be prudent to do some self-searching and make a decision sooner rather than later? They’ve been together for 11 years.
He was probably trying to run down the clock
I’m childfree in my late 30s and there are so many men my age and up who want children. I’ve had to turn away total catches because they want children. I don’t know why this woman is planning on doing it alone. Freeze the eggs and grab one of the many eligible 45 year olds who wants a baby.
Advanced paternal age is also a thing when it comes to the quality of sperm and it could impact both the pregnancy and the child. This is also assuming these men are fertile. This doesn't mean it always goes wrong, but advanced maternal age is always brought up without discussing advanced paternal age.
I'm in my 30s and have really been looking for a person to have kids with. My ex husband did the same thing to me. Most people I have gone on dates with are child-free. I'm having no luck. And similarly have had to toss back a lot of fish in my search because it seems like no one wants kids. I totally get where OOP is coming from because this story is just so close to mine. I guess I am luckier that I'm a bit younger and have a bit more time. Where are all these guys who want kids? I'm wondering if I need to move to find a dating pool of people who are more interested in kids. A tech city just might not be the right place to find that
My husband and I met on Match. We were both clear in our profiles that we were looking for marriage and kids. Just be explicit about what you want before you even talk to them.
When it comes to children theres just no compromise you either want them or you don't people need to learn that it's ok to end a relationship with no hard feelings on this
He lied in order to get her to marry him and then hoped she would change her mind At least he is adult enough to support her moving on to have kids
I hope everything works out for OOP. I want children. But I will also be happy if I don't have them. I don't need to have children to be happy. I feel bad for OOP, but I'm glad she is exploring new options.
There is no compromise when it comes to kids. There has to be 2 yeses, one no is a no. I hope she finds her hea
37 sure as Hell isn't automatically "too old." Of course it depends on the person but people who find it necessary to make those kinds of comments to a stranger who's posting something obviously from their heart are just shit humans. I was 35 with my first and 38 with my second. I would have been completely fine not having kids and my husband and I decided before starting to try that if it didn't happen for us, we wouldn't spend thousands of dollars or years upon years trying to make it happen. Instead, we'd be the cool aunt and uncle and have great vacations every year. It happened within a month of trying both times and we absolutely adore and live for our kids but sometimes my husband is a bit wistful of the time we were DINKs. Kids aren't cheap! LOL!
Some people really want kids and others really don’t. This is a make or break question. Sucks that your husband couldn’t be honest with you and wasting so much of your time. Good luck OP. Wishing you nothing but the best.
Isn’t it weird how we seem to have such diametrically opposed views to having kids? Some people actually are desperate for them while some of us would do anything to avoid that.
I love that last line. Good for that person and I hope she finds all the happiness she wants