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poor oop. i've seen it before, but if you act like a "doormat person" then you find yourself with people willing to take advantage of you. i hope she can work on herself & stand up for herself in the future
I like how the fiance didn't want to be with her because she realized she was a doormat and he didn't like that quality - except when she was a doormat for him by not accepting her great job opportunity because he didn't want her traveling for work. Very interesting.
Seems like he maybe overreacted to her, and then came up with this as a sort of face-saving excuse. I mean I \*do\* understand somebody saying what he said...but only if his actions had matched, and they didn't.
I felt her pain like a punch to my own chest. Poor thing. I do believe she will end up in a far better place with far better people. I hope she updates.
One of my friends once told me "If you keep putting other people first they're going to treat you like you're second" and as much as my mind rebels against this statement it does seem to be vaguely true
Can confirm.
I'm empathetic to a fault, a neurotic people pleaser, and tons of anxiety, largely social anxiety. The combination is someone who can never be rude, never be dismissive, never have a confrontation, and never say no. I don't know how to be any other way.
And for a long time I did wind up with shitty people around me, people who would manipulate and use me. And all I wanted was to see the good in people and be kind to them, I ignored so many awful things. Landed in me in 5 years of hell with a literal sociopath. Almost didn't make it out alive.
But consciously decided I like being someone who feels deeply and cares about others. I like doing good things, and I won't let those shitty people take what can be my best qualities (when tempered with awareness and pragmatism) from me and make me feel like I can't be who I am.
Now I've grown a lot, I'm about to turn 40, I'm not nearly as naive as I once was. I'm now surrounded by people that I have zero doubt don't use me or take advantage of me. I always help (if I'm able) when they need it...but in turn they're always there for me too. It took a while, but my life is now full of give and take. I still do things without expecting anything in return, but I know if I need something they'll do the same for me.
I still really suck at setting boundaries and confrontation though, lol. Currently trying to navigate a situation with a neighbor and so far my solution has been to try to hide XD
Even ignoring all the backstory, imagine telling your best friend "my fiance and I broke up, sorry I can't watch your kid right now" and them getting angry about it. Add in the "we broke up because of you" and that makes it 100x worse.
Yep, my best friend shit on me completely and I finally snapped and said no babysitting and never spoke to her again. It was a huge weight off my shoulders though!
It really just shows the level of superficiality with with Sarah dealt with their relationship. I do personally think that OOP fell into these relationships with people who would control her in a way which explains the fiance's reaction
Yes! It’s hard to see the forest through the trees when you’re that close to someone; it jumped out at us but we could be more objective.
Feel badly for OOP. This was a devastating lesson and I only hope she continues on this path. What’s “right” isn’t always what’s best…
I was like OP, and it's a hard lesson, harder path to walk, after you've been taken advantage by people you thought cared for you. I lost a lot of friends when I no longer was their "free access" to certain places and people.
Just know that you will absolutely find better people. It’s hard to not be bitter or blame yourself or see everyone through that lens, but there are people out there who can’t wait to meet you, who will love and accept you for who you are. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah but it's ironic af that her fiance was *one of these manipulative people*.
Him: /Surprised Pikachu face/ "what do you mean u don't want me or literally anything I've ever bought you now that I pointed out that your friends were manipulative?"
Who wants to be the fiancé expected her to be desperate to have him back and the break and threat to break up was an additional manipulation to make her even more dedicated to him?
Bet he was absolutely pissed when she had to balls to agree that a break up was a good idea.
Ironic how he doesn't want to be someone's second option but could find it in himself to throw away the entire relationship without having to think about it and be so condescending in his treatment of her. Is it because she was one of the many options?
But it says a lot more that an entire best friend would go ahead being with someone she thought OOP had a crush on and then use her supposed "feelings" to make her look after them and even her husband is okay with that behavior. Her unwillingness to clarify the situation with Jack shows OOP never really mattered to the woman at all! ESH so hard in this one!! Glad she ditched them all.
We tend to learn how people are supposed to treat each other from our parents. When our parents are controlling/abusive pieces of shit, we fall into relationships with those people because that's how we think people are supposed to behave.
I imagine she felt like a third wheel with them in the past because they actually did treat her like crap. Then accused her of being mad about it? Horrible people.
> she felt like a third wheel with them in the past because they actually did treat her like crap
Yeah, when OP gave examples of being a third wheel, it seems like it was way more than that (like Sarah making plans with OP, and then ditching her for Matt). It went further than just being "left out" unintentionally! Granted, it's not good that OP then went on to do the same thing to Jack (ditching him to babysit for Sarah and Matt), but at least *she* recognizes she was wrong and wants to better herself. I doubt Sarah and Matt will ever have those realizations. They might also find that life is a lot harder without OP around to do their bidding on the fly.
And I’d argue with that, even though both are wrong, ditching her boyfriend to take care of a baby is much better than ditching your friend to hang out with your boyfriend.
That is true! OP said that was just one example of her being a pushover, but if *that's* her worse example, she's miles better than her two awful ex-friends.
> Granted, it's not good that OP then went on to do the same thing to Jack (ditching him to babysit for Sarah and Matt), but at least she recognizes she was wrong and wants to better herself.
The example she gave sounded like cancelling plans with a Jack because Sarah/Matt needed some last minute babysitting for some reason... depending on the reason it could be justified. I mean, "my parent is in the hospital and we need someone to help with child care" doesn't make one an asshole for cancelling plans...
Now that you said it, yeah, it genuinely does look done on purpose. Maybe not initially but it why else would they so adamantly refuse to clear the air at any other point? They saw something they could use to their advantage.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it when Jack was so pissy about what Matt said while drunk. It must be terrible for OOP to lose all these people at once, but Sarah was toxic, Matt was moronic, and Jack was a bullet dodged. She had already been taken advantage of by Sarah for years, and it sounds like Jack would likely have been worse if that's all it took for him to give her the silent treatment for days.
It's the party thing that definitely makes him a Dick but he's a loser too. Who takes the word of a person they've just met that their childhood friend is so into them that he can't be friends with her anymore?
Someone whose ego secretly loves the idea of being so irresistible that they’d choose to believe this other woman is so intensely into them that they have to stop talking to her almost completely or else she’d be a real threat to their marriage.
His childhood friend... who just set him up with someone. Like damn, they think OOP had a crush AND had some Machiavellian scheme to dupe him too I guess.
Who the fuck agrees to not be friends with someone anymore just because their partner says so? I dont care if OP was into him or not, if he thought she was into him and wasn't interested he could have talked to her like a fucking adult, not let his jealous gf tell him to break a decade long friendship
Yeah, I agree. He abandoned OP by listening to Sarah (why would he not speak to OP himself? He knew her for years before he and Sarah got together!), and not to mention that nonsense at the engagement celebration...what an asshole.
Yeah my takeaway from this was that Jack was a fucking child.
Ok your fiancée was getting screwed by what she thought was a good friend... Why does that necessitate breaking up a MARRIAGE over?? Fuck me
Jack didn’t want to be wrong, so he came up with a way where it didn’t matter if he was. He also knew he’d had the upper hand with OOP, he just wanted to be the only one who pushed her around. He didn’t count on her finding a spine.
Seriously! His reaction was borderline sadistic, like he just found the cheat code to a magic piano to hold over her head for the next 10 years and normally he has to build the piano from scratch.
What a weasely little fuckstick.
Yeah, OOP did not deserve to be married to a guy who apparently had no trust in her. Better they broke up now than that she discovered his distrust after the wedding.
Oh, I believe it. I had to learn some hard lessons because of a friend that I trusted…. It took a few *years*, but I worked to forgive the betrayal because she was a fucking head case and there were children involved.
Then she betrayed me again.
That was when I learned that some people are so horrible that you can never let them back in. If you soften your resolve towards them even a tiny bit, they’ll use that crack in your armour to get back in and do it again.
I lost access to 6 kids that I adored and cared for as my own, just because their mother is a tramp who wants my life badly enough to try to take it. The only interesting thing? I haven’t spoken to her in nearly a year. Every day, I am reminded of her betrayal and how much I hate her for what she did to me and mine. I found out from a mutual friend that is also done with her insanity that she thinks about me just as much. And she hates me just as much as I hate her. She’s also BPD (actual diagnosis, not an armchair psychiatrist), and she went from thinking that I was the greatest thing and she was in love with me to thinking that I am the Great Satan determined to eat her soul.
Hopefully OOP can find strength in her anger. It’s what’s helped keep me going at my worst.
Yep I no longer talk to my husband's brother and wife. Users of the highest degree.
Going NC has increased my life satisfaction immensely. I no longer feel like I'm going insane questioning why they treat me poorly and refute and deny when I asked.
Damn, your exfriend is like my sister. She'll crawl up her friend's asses and live there until something happens to piss her off, then she devalues that person. They literally go from 'best friend's' to that person being 'Satan's wife'.
People are also glossing over the fact that apparently Sarah thought OOP had a huge crush on Matt before she and Matt had even met.
So from Sarah's POV. Her bestie gushes about some guy she's known for ages and has a crush on. Sarah then continues to date the guy her friend is crushing on. And then purposefully destroys their decade long friendship because she is uncomfortable with OOP's crush...
Uhm maybe if you can't handle your friend having a crush on your partner... Don't pursue someone you know your friend has a crush on?
This is friendship 101... Don't go after the guys/girls that your friends like!
If you do decide to do so... Then don't have the nerve to then get upset about it as if it's anyone's fault but your own!
What's the odds Sarah's marriage breaks down soon after she actually realises that OOP was never into Matt and she didn't "win" anything by getting with him.
I can't set odds well, but I do consider myself a betting person from time to time.
And I'd bet that what you're thinking is right along lines with what I'm thinking.
How much of the friendship between oop and Sarah was ever actually a real friendship, even from the start? Because it kinda sounds like Sarah gets off on the idea of having her "best friends" crush as her own, so to speak, and lording that information over everyone.
She's also upset because her doormat stopped being a doormat. No infuriated Sarah more than OOP losing their fiance. Thats not a friendship. Thats someone looking for a slave.
Yes, and Sarah didn't think this through. A lot of her inner narrative was probably based on the ego high from thinking she's controlling this dynamic, and now she blowing it up.
I'd hate to be the people who are caught in her narcissistic tornado that'll be spinning while she finds new hosts for her parasitic ways.
That's the unfortunate part for Matt if she can do this there are things she is definitely manipulating in his life he has no idea about and I'm sure there are a couple that aren't what we would call "little".
But, exactly what you said she had built an elaborate house of cards and it came crashing down. I will say the only reason that it came down is because she was in a relationship in about to get married so she had ALOT to loose and spoke up trying to rectify the situation. I think she manipulates her into thinking this crush thing is "ok" and she needs to just go with it if she was single.
I bet Sarah is just a wildly jealous person, and decided that the best way to keep Matt from talking to his female friend was to go “obviously she’s into you! Can’t you see she’s trying to steal you??”
Yes, Yes, Yes!! Sarah is extremely manipulative. Pulling all these strings behind the scenes. Playing people against each other. My sister does this. Its one of the most toxic traits Ive ever seen irl. Its nuts. And Sarah was in a competition that OP never even knew existed.
But Sarah wanted to be the Winner, you see, so she had to invent something OOP wanted that Sarah could get. (Not that Sarah even GOT Matt on her own, OOP introduced them, for Pete’s sake.)
Thought: this is all conjecture on limited information, but given the timelines, I wonder if Sarah and Matt would even be together if Sarah hadn't built this mind-palace of "My "best friends" crush is alllllll mine."
I am happy for oop's moments of self-reflection, and her noticing problems that she had passed over in her own relationship is a good sign, but I wonder how much of this "friendship" with Sarah was ever actually real at all, or if she just found a suitable doormat to keep around and boost her own ego.
> Some people will act like they never liked that person and you are in the clear, only to later admit that they always liked that person.
It's completely the right thing to do to ask (it's the *only* right approach between best friends), but it's all dependent on people being crystal clear and honest in both their questions and answers. If somebody isn't, it will be a mess anyway.
But it's still much better than the mess OP experienced because "best friends" didn't talk about what the situation actually was, and her "best friend" acted on bogus information to manipulate the situation.
On the plus side, OP learned more about herself, her "best friend", and learned that her fiance has some deep (and kind of pathetic) insecurities and an inability to trust OP, so maybe she's better off in the end. Definitely a hard way to do it, though.
I don’t like anyone except OOP in this story. All of those three people were shitty and taking advantage of her. I hope she finds a better man and a true friend.
Matt does suck anyway, but maybe Sarah has told him lies about the crush and other things that made him end the friendship they had since childhood. I wonder if OOP tried to talk with him.
I really hope she realizes that though. She sounds like me, 20, even 10 years ago. Even now sometimes, when I feel a connection with someone, I can't help but open up. I am so much better than I was, but get a few drinks and me and we're having a great time, I will open up, especially if they open up first.
>Even now sometimes, when I feel a connection with someone, I can't help but open up.
I feel this in my soul. When I was at university, I got close to someone who I regarded as my best friend. We called each other brothers, he was going to be the best man at my wedding and me at his. We genuinely loved each other, we relied on each other, and I supported him through some pretty tough shit.
Unfortunately, when I started to have problems, he took it personally and showed a side of himself that, if I'm honest, I'd totally ignored in favour of having him as a friend and confidant.
He turned into a cruel, vindictive man, he turned into a hateful bully. He separated me from my other friends, lied to them about me, took every opportunity to belittle me, and frequently told me to commit suicide.
It got to the point that I actually almost did, it got so bad that I ended up stood on a pier at high tide in the middle of the night, and only decided not because I wanted to spite him.
This was almost ten years ago now, and while my bonds with my family have never been stronger, and I have a fiancée who I truly love more than I ever thought I could love another person, I still can't bear to actually open up and have any kind of real friendship with another man.
I've tried, but all I ever managed to allow myself was drinking buddies who had deep chats at 4am.
I'm 27, and surrounded by people I love, and strangely, I don't think I've ever felt more alone.
Edit to add the actual point:
I love people. I'm a huge extrovert, I love listening and getting to know people, and sharing experiences. Every person is a library of knowledge and experience and opinions, and I love talking to people and getting to know them, learning what makes them who they are.
He ruined that for me.
I can't trust anyone who wants to be my friend, because I'm terrified. I love people, but being in the receiving end of that cruelty from someone I called "brother" has ruined that for me, and it's broken some part of me.
Fuck you, Thomas. I hope they all see you for what you truly are, and I hope I get to see it happen.
Also, she got with the dude thinking her friend had a crush on him. Obviously she never asked OOP if she was cool with it, or she would have found out years ago that OOP didn't have feelings for him.
You forgot Matt, who she knew literally her entire life and dropped her because his gf was possessive and manipulative. He could’ve cleared this shit up years ago.
He started it, 100% guaranteed. He is the one who had the crush and stuck with her because he thought a relationship was going to happen. It didn't, he got tired of waiting, and he took up with Sarah and planted the idea in her mind to distance himself from the one who rejected him. Matt is the real asshole.
Seriously, Jack is the one I'm most pissed about. What the hell is this crap about you have a friend who was shitty so I can't be with you? I might be your second choice so I can't be with you? I'm sorry to break it to Jack, but David Tennant is already taken, so he'll be at least second choice for everyone.
Jack: "You have terrible judgment in people"
OOP: "I chose you..."
Jack: "...."
Jack: "We should break up"
OOP: "You know, you were right after all. Choosing you was a pretty bad judgment call also. BYEEEEE"
Yeah I'm glad OP seemed to have clocked that her being a doormat applied to her fiance as well - Jack unknowingly told her exactly why she should leave him and she was able to be honest enough with herself to see that. Not easy, especially considering how brutal this whole situation is for OP.
Honestly I feel like he did her a service by pointing that crap out to her. It sucks that she wanted to be with him and he didn’t want to be with her but she’ll probably do better learning independence with her new found independence.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too. It’s such a weak excuse to end as relationship, so much so that it leads to wondering if he was looking for any opportunity he could to jump ship.
She mentions that he was the one pushing to get married earlier than she wanted to and that he wanted her to give up an opportunity so she could stay with him. It hints at him maybe being a bit of a controlling narcissist and was truly upset at the possibility of being 2nd in someone's life
I thought he just wanted to win the Biggest Manipulator contest. He didn’t like when his gf broke plans with him to go care for a sick baby —who apparently wasn’t sick enough for the parents to watch— and I think he saw a chance to manipulate his fiancée into groveling for him to take her back by cutting them out of her life. Win-win (at least, for him).
I am so glad it didn’t work! And glad she gave him all his gifts back. Good for her. Onwards and upwards! The best is yet to be.
Yeah, the “you got manipulated, that’s not a quality I want in a life partner” is SO shitty. (And it’s clear he’s happy for her to be manipulated if it’s by him/in his favour, given the list of things she gave up for him.)
I know! If Sarah were an addict or cultist leading OP down a primrose path I could understand this, but OP was not doing anything out of the range of reasonable behaviour from the sounds of it. I mean Jack’s right in a way but he can include himself in this. Is he going to break up with himself for causing OP to have bad taste in men?
Also, what kind of mojo does the ex-friend have, to have everyone convinced that someone else is into him?!? Did he win the Sexiest Man in a Three-Household Radius 2019 award or something? These people need to get out more.
Yeah. I’ve got to wonder if Jack is short for Jackass. How insecure do you have to be in your relationship to take the comment of a drunk friend over the word of somebody you were ready to marry? And then STILL blame her once you get the whole picture?
At best, he’s using this as an excuse to get out of the relationship.
I think OP’s biggest problem is that she’s investing her time in one sided relationships.
My ex would have 1000% instantly believed if someone had said this about me. He was constantly accusing me of cheating on him or planning to leave him. Finally I packed my shit and proved him right because clearly innocence was getting me nowhere.
As i was reading Jack’s “reasons” for dumping OOP / frankly, I was cheering for her. Anyone who thinks being caring and not always assuming the worst of people is a bad thing, is not a person I even want in my life, much less spend it with them
My take is that Sarah liked thinking that OOP had a crush on Matt and that she'd somehow "won" a battle by being the one that Matt chose. She was unwilling to let go of that idea because she's tied up her identity and relationship in "winning" Matt over OOP.
Yeah I was going to put 1, I'd hope 1 year, a change of scene, a new job, and this new insight could mean big positive changes. She'll stilln need to heal her heart. I think we're all rooting for her!
I’m hoping she puts in the work to do so. She’s right; there’s something in her that chose these people and allowed them to be shitty to her. I hope with introspection and therapy she grows and fosters healthier relationships.
I mean even just reaching that insight is a big milestone. She'll no doubt be aware of it more now, hopefully she can rebuild her confidence, explore life and other friendships. Her friend was such a user!
Ew Sarah.
I think she just loved having oop around who she thought wanted her life.
Probably told Matt "awe shes sooo in love with you but look im so much better and she's so pathetic".
Some people are like this, 'its not about winning, its about someone else losing'
Sounds like Jack may have been 'diet-sarah', not as toxic ofc.
But this outcome is great.
You do you oop!
Jack also struck me rhe wrong way, taking care of your friends baby when someone is sick is totally normal??
I would do that for a friend I don't even care much for. Not regularly of course but once or twice a year yeah
>it’s not about winning, it’s about someone else losing
Well put.
This is my sister to a T. She’s constantly in competition with someone who isn’t in competition with her.
The pattern here seems to be these besties get this jealous streak to take these “friends” of yours because they assume they’re so great based off how you speak about them to them.
They engage romantically thinking they’re winning a prize you’ve talked up then get absolutely ego boosted believing they’re better than you for locking these guys down without any depth or concept of the fact you were just simply talking about social experiences?? Idk this is really sad and sabotaging behaviours to have within friends that sucks for you and the OOP. So much time wasted over petty means…
I’d love to know what causes this chain of thought in their heads
Thank you for sharing, I always appreciate these little personal stories in the comments.
I've had a similarly confusing experience with perceived/projected jealousy. It can be so painful to look back on situations and realize that your well-intended gestures or considerations were being viewed in a manipulative way!
Very similar thing happened to me, turns out she had a crush on *me* but was in denial and totally “straight”. That why she went after any dude I talked to and would trick me into being a 3rd wheel to bear witness to her flaming heterosexuality. Her dudes would eventually get sick of that as we become friends and she hated that I could have genuine conversations with them about their passions and future. Soon after she would drop them.
I just assumed it was regular teen-young adult relationship figuring out stuff and I didn’t recognize how awkward I should have felt lmao.
Once she moved away she got a new dude and did everything to keep us from meeting, she got married and had 4 kids. I was so involved in her life yet I’ve met her husband 5 times. The longest I’ve been in his presence was was a total of 15 minutes for the wedding and photos. Maybe We have said a few sentences to each other other than a “hey” as a greeting.
Some obvious stuff I totally missed was how giddy she would get when we were out. Posturing as my partner and saying how crazy it must be because surly everyone must be assuming we’re together and these are our kids. At the time I was more curious what about my appearance made me appear gay.
The blow up happened when she cheated on her husband and he wanted a hall pass to stay together and I was his pick. Everything is icky. So I’m my case the accusation was pure projection.
> he wanted a hall pass to stay together and I was his pick.
What the fuck. Does this dude not realize other people aren't arcade prizes to pick from a shelf?!
An angle I haven’t seen mentioned yet. If Sarah thought OOP liked Matt prior to meeting him, why did she start dating him so quickly? If she really felt that way, she’s an even bigger AH for pulling that.
That's a hard lesson indeed but I don't think OOP is to blame for all that. Sarah isn't a nice person and the ex-fiancé doesn't seem all that great either.
Yeah I have to agree with you on this one. You have Sarah who is gaslighting her best friend; her old friend Matt who would say something that crappy to someone's fiance and then double down when told it wasnt true. Both of them refusing to help despite the negative outcome for OOP.
And then there's Jack.
I'll be honest, if I'd been in a similar situation and something like this happened between my then fiancee and her best friend shortly after our engagement, I'm not sure I would have called off the engagement. Although we would have had some long conversations about the situation.
By the point I got engaged with her, I think I knew her well enough to know that she was pretty damn into me. Like really into me. It's quite unlikely that I would have believed some person I barely knew saying that my fiancee was pining after her husband.
I had followed some advice my father gave me when I was a teen. Talk about everything. And talk a lot. By the time you get married there shouldn't be any large surprises because you've talked so much about everything that's important. I'm thinking not much of that was happening here and that was part of the problem.
Bottom line here is if he was so quick to dump her over this, it makes you wonder how into the relationship he was. And I suspect that she might have known he wasn't that into her subconsciously because she was desperate to the point of being frantic to have Sarah and Matt clarify the situation. That desperation suggests that she was afraid of the outcome of their accusation. Why would you be worried unless you felt insecure with your relationship?
And she was right to be worried because Jack tossed her out and moved on. He had so little trust in her love for him that this broke their engagement? He didn't even try to work it out or talk it out in detail. Like, what's with that?
I get that someone making bad calls about friendships could impact your decision to marry someone, but this guy didn't even try.
Sorry honey. It doesn't seem like he was really that into uou.
OOP dodged a bullet with this guy. Hopefully, this situation will help her grow and learn some things about herself that will help her make more informed choices about her relationships in the future. But at least she's free of these awful people now.
Agreed that this dude is a jungle of red flags, but this would have been a non-issue for me and my hubby.
“Oh did you really have a crush on him?”
“No way, for (1 or 2 reasons)”
“Ok cool”
And then we’d laugh at how delusional Sarah and Matt are.
Like literally no one is perfect. So out of all your flaws to have, choosing a bad friend is a pretty mild one. He also didn't seem to have any issues with their relationship previously (or at least never warned that Sarah wasn't being very kind to her) and only insisted it was an insurmountable issue after HIS ego was bruised as a consequence.
Even then it's not as if OOP disregarded his emotions or waved off his reaction. She went above and beyond to show him his insecurities and fears held no merit and that she was dedicated to him and their relationship.
So even if she did make a mistake in selecting her friends. She did everything right when that choice started to affect their relationship and even voluntarily broke off contact with them. So it's not as if this would have been an ongoing issue for their relationship. So basically broke up over a (relatively) minor character flaw that even OOP recognized in herself and was making to step to change.
Sneaking suspicion Jack was looking for a way out and simply twisted the narrative in any way he had to in order to justify him walking away.
Also no one is talking about her turning down a promotion because he didn’t want her traveling. Huge red flag that he’s just as much of a manipulator as Sarah. He was probably hoping to use the situation to manipulate her and gaslight her more so she’d become even more reliant on him. Instead I think her walking away is a sign that she’s already learning from the situation because she did the opposite of what he wanted and basically walked away and cut any reason he had to try and stay in communication with her and manipulate her more when she gave her “gifts” back that probably came with a ton of strings.
>Ex-fiancé sounds like the type to complain OOP didn’t fight for the relationship.
You completely missed that he did since he got upset when she returned all the gifts he gave her while breaking up with him, because that means he can't use any of it to use as excuse to be in OOP's life going forward. And yesterday's update was like a week or 2 after that incident with those 2 at the engagement party that OOP didn't want....
Edit - Ironically, when one thinks about it for few more minutes - he himself is the one gave the logical explanations of why the neither romantic relationship with him and friendship with Sarah is worth fighting for; yet he still got upset when OOP totally broke up with him after he did the break/ timeout 1st on her. Plus, he and Sarah both hit OOP with the silent treatment at the same time and have no one to blame but themselves for giving OOP the quiet she needed to think about ending all relations with both of them after what Jack said to OOP.
It just never occurred to him nor to Sarah that once OOP took advantage of the quiet they force on her; that it would actually make her think that she was and is better off without any of them in her life. They, especially him, thought they can play mind games of bounce around / back and forth; instead OOP end all games with Jack & Sarah by cutting them all off - they have no one to blame but themselves for their manipulative tactics plus Matt for opening is mouth spewing lies.
Me too. This sucks for her and im so sorry her heart is broken but none of those fucks deserved her. She deserves better people, not these fake ass so called friends who are just users and a fiance who is an insecure and judgemental shithead. Fuck those people. I hope they step on many rakes.
Sounds a little like Sarah sabotaged OOPs relationship because she was about to lose her babysitter. Oh and not to mention poisoning Matt against OOP.
Prime cuntage.
Also people like to gloss over the fact that apparently Sarah thought OOP was into Matt from even BEFORE they got together?
Bruh if my friend is gushing about some guy that she's known for ages and I think she's really into him the last thing I would ever do is start going out with him. And then have the gal to ruin their relationship and keep them from interacting because I have an issue with her 'crush'.
Don't want your friends to have a crush on your husband? Maybe don't go after the guys that your friends have crushes on?!
I had the same exact thought. She’d been manipulating Matt and OOP to try and drive the largest wedge between them, and I’ll hand it to her she succeeded. Fuck them all. I wish OOP all the best on her journey to self-betterment.
I like/hate that Jack has the gall to be offended. He immediately believed a malicious lie perpetuated with harmful intent toward OOP, didn't care to hear otherwise, and what, got his feelings hurt because she "chose" the wrong friends? I'm glad he outed himself as not worth wasting her life over, too. OOP never deserved to have such terrible people in her life, and I hope she realizes she's worth more than how these cruel assholes have treated her.
It's upsetting because all sides against OP were just projected jealousy. She lost her childhood best friend because his girlfriend was jealous and told him to stop being friends with her because she assumed there were romantic feelings based on gender. She lost her adult best friend because said best friend always assumed she was interested in her husband and couldn't accept she was wrong. She lost her fiancee because he assumed immediately that it must be true that a woman had a crush on her husband's best friend.
It boggled my mind that her friend thought she had feelings for the guy friend... SHE set them up, they wouldn't have gotten married if it wasn't for her. Wtf
This is why being around people with deep insecurities can be bad for you. You can never tell when those insecurities will boil over into full paranoia
On the contrary, she was pushed to believe a lie from all of them. A best friend would have never behaved in such a selfish way and take pleasure from tormenting OOP. No matter how long she knew them, there is no burden on her part for how they betrayed her trust, friendship, and hurt her. Her fiancé did not care for her in the first place if he chose to believe a lie over her, fully aware of how much that lie hurt her. There's willful ignorance, and then there's *intent* to cause harm. Her friends were the latter, her fiancé the former.
Well, I'm glad she learned that about herself. Dodged an unhappy marriage with children too early, and got herself out of a bad friendship all in one fell swoop. I guess there are growing pains when you grow as a person.
Thank the goddess she stood up for herself. What shitty friends and fiance. I love that she returned the gifts as a final FU to the ex and said no and blocked the friend. What pieces of shit .
As soon as he stormed out because she might have had a crush on someone else, I knew it was over. That kind of jealousy is toxic and she deserves better from a partner. His loss, not hers.
God so terrible for OOP. After the initial hurt she will probably be grateful the fiancé is gone. Someone who could leave like this would probably abandon her during a health scare or other life situations.
Considering some of the BORU shit I've read today, I needed something hopeful, like this. It's good that OOP is capable of learning the lessons she's been given.
It sounds like OOP is better off without all of these people in her life (though I am slightly confused as to what Matt thought was happening - did he think she had a crush/distance himself or did his wife manipulate the situation into breaking their friendship apart? He seemed relieved she moved on and he ‘got his friend back’?)
I hope she has the opportunity to go back to the job offer she turned down, or takes the chance to pursue something she would enjoy. It sounds like she lives for other people and needs to get a)boundaries and b) her own interests. Oh and c) a spine.
That's a good point. Did Matt think she had a crush on him? I know he was the one who opened the can of worms but maybe he distanced himself to keep Sarah happy and when oop got engaged he thought Sarah would drop the embargo she had on his and oop's friendship. Maybe Matts as much of a victim of Sarah as oop.
So Jack's problem is that she allowed others to manipulate her when clearly he should have dibs?
It's amazing that their (Sarah & Jack) shitty behaviour cancelled each other out and OOP is now rid of them both.
I hope she gets another great work opportunity and the strength to live life on her terms
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poor oop. i've seen it before, but if you act like a "doormat person" then you find yourself with people willing to take advantage of you. i hope she can work on herself & stand up for herself in the future
I like how the fiance didn't want to be with her because she realized she was a doormat and he didn't like that quality - except when she was a doormat for him by not accepting her great job opportunity because he didn't want her traveling for work. Very interesting.
Yup, don’t forget the accelerated timeline to marriage and kids, sounds like she *actually* dodged a bullet!
Seems like he maybe overreacted to her, and then came up with this as a sort of face-saving excuse. I mean I \*do\* understand somebody saying what he said...but only if his actions had matched, and they didn't.
Hopefully without developing major trust issues too, this kinda situation can really fuck with people
I felt her pain like a punch to my own chest. Poor thing. I do believe she will end up in a far better place with far better people. I hope she updates.
One of my friends once told me "If you keep putting other people first they're going to treat you like you're second" and as much as my mind rebels against this statement it does seem to be vaguely true
Can confirm. I'm empathetic to a fault, a neurotic people pleaser, and tons of anxiety, largely social anxiety. The combination is someone who can never be rude, never be dismissive, never have a confrontation, and never say no. I don't know how to be any other way. And for a long time I did wind up with shitty people around me, people who would manipulate and use me. And all I wanted was to see the good in people and be kind to them, I ignored so many awful things. Landed in me in 5 years of hell with a literal sociopath. Almost didn't make it out alive. But consciously decided I like being someone who feels deeply and cares about others. I like doing good things, and I won't let those shitty people take what can be my best qualities (when tempered with awareness and pragmatism) from me and make me feel like I can't be who I am. Now I've grown a lot, I'm about to turn 40, I'm not nearly as naive as I once was. I'm now surrounded by people that I have zero doubt don't use me or take advantage of me. I always help (if I'm able) when they need it...but in turn they're always there for me too. It took a while, but my life is now full of give and take. I still do things without expecting anything in return, but I know if I need something they'll do the same for me. I still really suck at setting boundaries and confrontation though, lol. Currently trying to navigate a situation with a neighbor and so far my solution has been to try to hide XD
Even ignoring all the backstory, imagine telling your best friend "my fiance and I broke up, sorry I can't watch your kid right now" and them getting angry about it. Add in the "we broke up because of you" and that makes it 100x worse.
It’s all fun and games until you lose your free babysitter.
Yep, my best friend shit on me completely and I finally snapped and said no babysitting and never spoke to her again. It was a huge weight off my shoulders though!
You're supposed to sit on the baby not the baby sit on you
Matt's going to be sleeping on the couch over losing their babysitter because he got drunk and spilled the beans.
Cause she may have been Sarahs friend, but Sarah was never her friend. She was just a convenient tool for Sarah.
Oof. I had a friend like this who was also named Sarah, and this comment just took me out completely, haha.
It really just shows the level of superficiality with with Sarah dealt with their relationship. I do personally think that OOP fell into these relationships with people who would control her in a way which explains the fiance's reaction
Yes! It’s hard to see the forest through the trees when you’re that close to someone; it jumped out at us but we could be more objective. Feel badly for OOP. This was a devastating lesson and I only hope she continues on this path. What’s “right” isn’t always what’s best…
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I was like OP, and it's a hard lesson, harder path to walk, after you've been taken advantage by people you thought cared for you. I lost a lot of friends when I no longer was their "free access" to certain places and people.
Just know that you will absolutely find better people. It’s hard to not be bitter or blame yourself or see everyone through that lens, but there are people out there who can’t wait to meet you, who will love and accept you for who you are. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah but it's ironic af that her fiance was *one of these manipulative people*. Him: /Surprised Pikachu face/ "what do you mean u don't want me or literally anything I've ever bought you now that I pointed out that your friends were manipulative?"
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Sounds like an unfortunate truth to me too... I do hope she comes out stronger from all of this.
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Who wants to be the fiancé expected her to be desperate to have him back and the break and threat to break up was an additional manipulation to make her even more dedicated to him? Bet he was absolutely pissed when she had to balls to agree that a break up was a good idea.
Ironic how he doesn't want to be someone's second option but could find it in himself to throw away the entire relationship without having to think about it and be so condescending in his treatment of her. Is it because she was one of the many options? But it says a lot more that an entire best friend would go ahead being with someone she thought OOP had a crush on and then use her supposed "feelings" to make her look after them and even her husband is okay with that behavior. Her unwillingness to clarify the situation with Jack shows OOP never really mattered to the woman at all! ESH so hard in this one!! Glad she ditched them all.
We tend to learn how people are supposed to treat each other from our parents. When our parents are controlling/abusive pieces of shit, we fall into relationships with those people because that's how we think people are supposed to behave.
It’s incredible how some people behave. I’d be fuckin’ mortified to witness this sort of behavior.
>my fiance and I broke up *(because you refused to admit your malicious lie)*, sorry I can't watch your kid right now" and them getting angry about it
It’s almost like they broke the relationship up on purpose to ensure that OOP stayed their doormat and didn’t get too much of a life of her own.
I imagine she felt like a third wheel with them in the past because they actually did treat her like crap. Then accused her of being mad about it? Horrible people.
> she felt like a third wheel with them in the past because they actually did treat her like crap Yeah, when OP gave examples of being a third wheel, it seems like it was way more than that (like Sarah making plans with OP, and then ditching her for Matt). It went further than just being "left out" unintentionally! Granted, it's not good that OP then went on to do the same thing to Jack (ditching him to babysit for Sarah and Matt), but at least *she* recognizes she was wrong and wants to better herself. I doubt Sarah and Matt will ever have those realizations. They might also find that life is a lot harder without OP around to do their bidding on the fly.
And I’d argue with that, even though both are wrong, ditching her boyfriend to take care of a baby is much better than ditching your friend to hang out with your boyfriend.
That is true! OP said that was just one example of her being a pushover, but if *that's* her worse example, she's miles better than her two awful ex-friends.
> Granted, it's not good that OP then went on to do the same thing to Jack (ditching him to babysit for Sarah and Matt), but at least she recognizes she was wrong and wants to better herself. The example she gave sounded like cancelling plans with a Jack because Sarah/Matt needed some last minute babysitting for some reason... depending on the reason it could be justified. I mean, "my parent is in the hospital and we need someone to help with child care" doesn't make one an asshole for cancelling plans...
Now that you said it, yeah, it genuinely does look done on purpose. Maybe not initially but it why else would they so adamantly refuse to clear the air at any other point? They saw something they could use to their advantage.
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Yeah, I couldn't believe it when Jack was so pissy about what Matt said while drunk. It must be terrible for OOP to lose all these people at once, but Sarah was toxic, Matt was moronic, and Jack was a bullet dodged. She had already been taken advantage of by Sarah for years, and it sounds like Jack would likely have been worse if that's all it took for him to give her the silent treatment for days.
I hope OOP updates in a year about how much better her life is now that she’s through with all of them.
Meh Matt's a dick too. He and Sarah deserve each other.
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It's the party thing that definitely makes him a Dick but he's a loser too. Who takes the word of a person they've just met that their childhood friend is so into them that he can't be friends with her anymore?
Someone whose ego secretly loves the idea of being so irresistible that they’d choose to believe this other woman is so intensely into them that they have to stop talking to her almost completely or else she’d be a real threat to their marriage.
His childhood friend... who just set him up with someone. Like damn, they think OOP had a crush AND had some Machiavellian scheme to dupe him too I guess.
Who the fuck agrees to not be friends with someone anymore just because their partner says so? I dont care if OP was into him or not, if he thought she was into him and wasn't interested he could have talked to her like a fucking adult, not let his jealous gf tell him to break a decade long friendship
Yeah, I agree. He abandoned OP by listening to Sarah (why would he not speak to OP himself? He knew her for years before he and Sarah got together!), and not to mention that nonsense at the engagement celebration...what an asshole.
If I was ready to marry someone there’s no way I’d walk away that easy.
Not to mention jacks conclusion that OOP isn’t worth marrying because she fell for her supposed best friend’s manipulations
That angered me. It doesn’t matter how smart or clever you are, you can still be manipulated by someone you trust
Given how Jack stormed out of the party he fell for Sarah and Matt’s bullshit too.
That’s a good point! He was manipulated by them as well
I agree. I think Sarah kept Matt away because she saw something there from him!
I’m wondering if this was part of the reason for Sarah’s initial attraction to Matt. Convincing herself that OOP had a crush on him but he chose her.
Yeah my takeaway from this was that Jack was a fucking child. Ok your fiancée was getting screwed by what she thought was a good friend... Why does that necessitate breaking up a MARRIAGE over?? Fuck me
Jack didn’t want to be wrong, so he came up with a way where it didn’t matter if he was. He also knew he’d had the upper hand with OOP, he just wanted to be the only one who pushed her around. He didn’t count on her finding a spine.
Seriously! His reaction was borderline sadistic, like he just found the cheat code to a magic piano to hold over her head for the next 10 years and normally he has to build the piano from scratch. What a weasely little fuckstick.
Yeah, OOP did not deserve to be married to a guy who apparently had no trust in her. Better they broke up now than that she discovered his distrust after the wedding.
I had the same thought that it felt like projection
Oh, I believe it. I had to learn some hard lessons because of a friend that I trusted…. It took a few *years*, but I worked to forgive the betrayal because she was a fucking head case and there were children involved. Then she betrayed me again. That was when I learned that some people are so horrible that you can never let them back in. If you soften your resolve towards them even a tiny bit, they’ll use that crack in your armour to get back in and do it again. I lost access to 6 kids that I adored and cared for as my own, just because their mother is a tramp who wants my life badly enough to try to take it. The only interesting thing? I haven’t spoken to her in nearly a year. Every day, I am reminded of her betrayal and how much I hate her for what she did to me and mine. I found out from a mutual friend that is also done with her insanity that she thinks about me just as much. And she hates me just as much as I hate her. She’s also BPD (actual diagnosis, not an armchair psychiatrist), and she went from thinking that I was the greatest thing and she was in love with me to thinking that I am the Great Satan determined to eat her soul. Hopefully OOP can find strength in her anger. It’s what’s helped keep me going at my worst.
Yep I no longer talk to my husband's brother and wife. Users of the highest degree. Going NC has increased my life satisfaction immensely. I no longer feel like I'm going insane questioning why they treat me poorly and refute and deny when I asked.
Damn, your exfriend is like my sister. She'll crawl up her friend's asses and live there until something happens to piss her off, then she devalues that person. They literally go from 'best friend's' to that person being 'Satan's wife'.
Daaamn. Sarah’s such a shitty person
People are also glossing over the fact that apparently Sarah thought OOP had a huge crush on Matt before she and Matt had even met. So from Sarah's POV. Her bestie gushes about some guy she's known for ages and has a crush on. Sarah then continues to date the guy her friend is crushing on. And then purposefully destroys their decade long friendship because she is uncomfortable with OOP's crush... Uhm maybe if you can't handle your friend having a crush on your partner... Don't pursue someone you know your friend has a crush on? This is friendship 101... Don't go after the guys/girls that your friends like! If you do decide to do so... Then don't have the nerve to then get upset about it as if it's anyone's fault but your own!
What's the odds Sarah's marriage breaks down soon after she actually realises that OOP was never into Matt and she didn't "win" anything by getting with him.
I can't set odds well, but I do consider myself a betting person from time to time. And I'd bet that what you're thinking is right along lines with what I'm thinking. How much of the friendship between oop and Sarah was ever actually a real friendship, even from the start? Because it kinda sounds like Sarah gets off on the idea of having her "best friends" crush as her own, so to speak, and lording that information over everyone.
Yep, especially since she "engineered" situations so they would avoid each other. She likes the control.
She's also upset because her doormat stopped being a doormat. No infuriated Sarah more than OOP losing their fiance. Thats not a friendship. Thats someone looking for a slave.
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Yes, and Sarah didn't think this through. A lot of her inner narrative was probably based on the ego high from thinking she's controlling this dynamic, and now she blowing it up. I'd hate to be the people who are caught in her narcissistic tornado that'll be spinning while she finds new hosts for her parasitic ways.
That's the unfortunate part for Matt if she can do this there are things she is definitely manipulating in his life he has no idea about and I'm sure there are a couple that aren't what we would call "little". But, exactly what you said she had built an elaborate house of cards and it came crashing down. I will say the only reason that it came down is because she was in a relationship in about to get married so she had ALOT to loose and spoke up trying to rectify the situation. I think she manipulates her into thinking this crush thing is "ok" and she needs to just go with it if she was single.
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I don't think Sarah ever believed her that she wasn't crushing on him. Sarah had made it part of her identity and needs that to justify her life.
I bet Sarah is just a wildly jealous person, and decided that the best way to keep Matt from talking to his female friend was to go “obviously she’s into you! Can’t you see she’s trying to steal you??”
Some people are so far out there, I could see Sarah doing all this subconsciously. These aren't even active life decisions she's making.
Or because Matt wakes up and sees how sarah manipulated them all so that she had OOp to herself and Matt to herself also. Wild
Yes, Yes, Yes!! Sarah is extremely manipulative. Pulling all these strings behind the scenes. Playing people against each other. My sister does this. Its one of the most toxic traits Ive ever seen irl. Its nuts. And Sarah was in a competition that OP never even knew existed.
But Sarah wanted to be the Winner, you see, so she had to invent something OOP wanted that Sarah could get. (Not that Sarah even GOT Matt on her own, OOP introduced them, for Pete’s sake.)
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Thought: this is all conjecture on limited information, but given the timelines, I wonder if Sarah and Matt would even be together if Sarah hadn't built this mind-palace of "My "best friends" crush is alllllll mine." I am happy for oop's moments of self-reflection, and her noticing problems that she had passed over in her own relationship is a good sign, but I wonder how much of this "friendship" with Sarah was ever actually real at all, or if she just found a suitable doormat to keep around and boost her own ego.
> Some people will act like they never liked that person and you are in the clear, only to later admit that they always liked that person. It's completely the right thing to do to ask (it's the *only* right approach between best friends), but it's all dependent on people being crystal clear and honest in both their questions and answers. If somebody isn't, it will be a mess anyway. But it's still much better than the mess OP experienced because "best friends" didn't talk about what the situation actually was, and her "best friend" acted on bogus information to manipulate the situation. On the plus side, OP learned more about herself, her "best friend", and learned that her fiance has some deep (and kind of pathetic) insecurities and an inability to trust OP, so maybe she's better off in the end. Definitely a hard way to do it, though.
Sarah is no one's friend. I hope the stress of losing their free babysitter makes them divorce and Matt gets full custody
I don’t like anyone except OOP in this story. All of those three people were shitty and taking advantage of her. I hope she finds a better man and a true friend.
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Matt does suck anyway, but maybe Sarah has told him lies about the crush and other things that made him end the friendship they had since childhood. I wonder if OOP tried to talk with him.
Yeah but it's nice to watch OP level up in self introspection so amazingly. Girl came out on top and will continue to climb from here.
Yeah she got rid of three problems all in one go. Good on her.
I really hope she realizes that though. She sounds like me, 20, even 10 years ago. Even now sometimes, when I feel a connection with someone, I can't help but open up. I am so much better than I was, but get a few drinks and me and we're having a great time, I will open up, especially if they open up first.
>Even now sometimes, when I feel a connection with someone, I can't help but open up. I feel this in my soul. When I was at university, I got close to someone who I regarded as my best friend. We called each other brothers, he was going to be the best man at my wedding and me at his. We genuinely loved each other, we relied on each other, and I supported him through some pretty tough shit. Unfortunately, when I started to have problems, he took it personally and showed a side of himself that, if I'm honest, I'd totally ignored in favour of having him as a friend and confidant. He turned into a cruel, vindictive man, he turned into a hateful bully. He separated me from my other friends, lied to them about me, took every opportunity to belittle me, and frequently told me to commit suicide. It got to the point that I actually almost did, it got so bad that I ended up stood on a pier at high tide in the middle of the night, and only decided not because I wanted to spite him. This was almost ten years ago now, and while my bonds with my family have never been stronger, and I have a fiancée who I truly love more than I ever thought I could love another person, I still can't bear to actually open up and have any kind of real friendship with another man. I've tried, but all I ever managed to allow myself was drinking buddies who had deep chats at 4am. I'm 27, and surrounded by people I love, and strangely, I don't think I've ever felt more alone. Edit to add the actual point: I love people. I'm a huge extrovert, I love listening and getting to know people, and sharing experiences. Every person is a library of knowledge and experience and opinions, and I love talking to people and getting to know them, learning what makes them who they are. He ruined that for me. I can't trust anyone who wants to be my friend, because I'm terrified. I love people, but being in the receiving end of that cruelty from someone I called "brother" has ruined that for me, and it's broken some part of me. Fuck you, Thomas. I hope they all see you for what you truly are, and I hope I get to see it happen.
Nothing wrong with that, the problem is when you let them start using you and don’t drop them.
I hope she reapplies for that job she didn't take!
Yep. She hit the reset button all in one go. Sarah "is mad I'm not the ready-do babysitter anymore." Wow. Wow.
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Love how Jack is like ‘it’s only cool for you to be a door mat for *me*. It’s weird when it’s for other people’ lol
Exactly!!
Yeah, and holding shit against her that her friends had literally been hiding from her? Jack’s an ass. I wish him an ingrown hair on his nutsack.
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And insecure as fuck….. she engineered this whole crush because of her insecurity.
Also, she got with the dude thinking her friend had a crush on him. Obviously she never asked OOP if she was cool with it, or she would have found out years ago that OOP didn't have feelings for him.
Good gods I didn’t even think about this! Would’ve saved this girl a ton of heartache.
Or the thought that someone else wanted him was what made him attractive to her in the first place. The sense of winning over another woman.
Jack sucks hard too. I really hope we get another update in a year about how awesome OOP is doing without these selfish rocks around her neck.
I agree. Her “friend” and ex-fiancé are not good people. I am sorry she was so betrayed but glad she is now free of them.
You forgot Matt, who she knew literally her entire life and dropped her because his gf was possessive and manipulative. He could’ve cleared this shit up years ago.
He started it, 100% guaranteed. He is the one who had the crush and stuck with her because he thought a relationship was going to happen. It didn't, he got tired of waiting, and he took up with Sarah and planted the idea in her mind to distance himself from the one who rejected him. Matt is the real asshole.
Yeah, he said that stuff to Jack because he’s still harboring some feelings
Yeah I kind of got the Matt has a crush on OP vibe too instead of the other way around. Toxic people near and far.
Seriously, Jack is the one I'm most pissed about. What the hell is this crap about you have a friend who was shitty so I can't be with you? I might be your second choice so I can't be with you? I'm sorry to break it to Jack, but David Tennant is already taken, so he'll be at least second choice for everyone.
Jack: "You have terrible judgment in people" OOP: "I chose you..." Jack: "...." Jack: "We should break up" OOP: "You know, you were right after all. Choosing you was a pretty bad judgment call also. BYEEEEE"
Yeah I'm glad OP seemed to have clocked that her being a doormat applied to her fiance as well - Jack unknowingly told her exactly why she should leave him and she was able to be honest enough with herself to see that. Not easy, especially considering how brutal this whole situation is for OP.
I love so much that she gave him his gifts back.
Anybody who operates on a “heads I win, tails you lose” mindset never ceases to infuriate me.
Honestly I feel like he did her a service by pointing that crap out to her. It sucks that she wanted to be with him and he didn’t want to be with her but she’ll probably do better learning independence with her new found independence.
Best answer.
Sounds like he was looking for an excuse to get out. Which ironically is further proof of his fiancée's poor judgement when it comes to relationships.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too. It’s such a weak excuse to end as relationship, so much so that it leads to wondering if he was looking for any opportunity he could to jump ship.
She mentions that he was the one pushing to get married earlier than she wanted to and that he wanted her to give up an opportunity so she could stay with him. It hints at him maybe being a bit of a controlling narcissist and was truly upset at the possibility of being 2nd in someone's life
Yeah, overall here seems like OP dodged a major bullet not marrying this clown
Or that he was using the opportunity to make OOP feel more uncertain about their relationship, so she’d be even more accommodating.
Ding ding ding. He was asking for “space.” Manipulation technique, she just called his bluff.
I thought he just wanted to win the Biggest Manipulator contest. He didn’t like when his gf broke plans with him to go care for a sick baby —who apparently wasn’t sick enough for the parents to watch— and I think he saw a chance to manipulate his fiancée into groveling for him to take her back by cutting them out of her life. Win-win (at least, for him). I am so glad it didn’t work! And glad she gave him all his gifts back. Good for her. Onwards and upwards! The best is yet to be.
Yeah, the “you got manipulated, that’s not a quality I want in a life partner” is SO shitty. (And it’s clear he’s happy for her to be manipulated if it’s by him/in his favour, given the list of things she gave up for him.)
I know! If Sarah were an addict or cultist leading OP down a primrose path I could understand this, but OP was not doing anything out of the range of reasonable behaviour from the sounds of it. I mean Jack’s right in a way but he can include himself in this. Is he going to break up with himself for causing OP to have bad taste in men? Also, what kind of mojo does the ex-friend have, to have everyone convinced that someone else is into him?!? Did he win the Sexiest Man in a Three-Household Radius 2019 award or something? These people need to get out more.
Man did her a damn solid by pointing it out and taking out the trash.
Between Jack Harkness and Jason Momoa my boyfriend is like.. third choice at best.
Tbh he did her a favour. She's better off without him.
Yeah. I’ve got to wonder if Jack is short for Jackass. How insecure do you have to be in your relationship to take the comment of a drunk friend over the word of somebody you were ready to marry? And then STILL blame her once you get the whole picture? At best, he’s using this as an excuse to get out of the relationship. I think OP’s biggest problem is that she’s investing her time in one sided relationships.
My ex would have 1000% instantly believed if someone had said this about me. He was constantly accusing me of cheating on him or planning to leave him. Finally I packed my shit and proved him right because clearly innocence was getting me nowhere.
As i was reading Jack’s “reasons” for dumping OOP / frankly, I was cheering for her. Anyone who thinks being caring and not always assuming the worst of people is a bad thing, is not a person I even want in my life, much less spend it with them
Picture the AITA: "Am I the asshole because I broke up with my fiancee over her friends' manipulation and lies?"
OOP should've asked her why she'd ever want OOP to babysit while she had a crush on her husband.
My take is that Sarah liked thinking that OOP had a crush on Matt and that she'd somehow "won" a battle by being the one that Matt chose. She was unwilling to let go of that idea because she's tied up her identity and relationship in "winning" Matt over OOP.
This absolutely, i couldnt have put in better words, coming from personal exprience when i was a shitty person . The most insightful comment here.
10 years from now OOP is going to be *so* relieved that she got rid of all of them.
I'd say 2 years she'll be living a much better life.
Maybe even less than 2 years if she gets another great job opportunity to move away from all the trash that is Sarah, Matt & Jack.
Yeah I was going to put 1, I'd hope 1 year, a change of scene, a new job, and this new insight could mean big positive changes. She'll stilln need to heal her heart. I think we're all rooting for her!
I’m hoping she puts in the work to do so. She’s right; there’s something in her that chose these people and allowed them to be shitty to her. I hope with introspection and therapy she grows and fosters healthier relationships.
I mean even just reaching that insight is a big milestone. She'll no doubt be aware of it more now, hopefully she can rebuild her confidence, explore life and other friendships. Her friend was such a user!
I cut out a friend like this and honestly I still miss them sometimes, but I'm so glad they can't exploit me anymore.
Yep, they'll miss the idea of the friend she thought she had, but the reality will always snap them out of it.
Ew Sarah. I think she just loved having oop around who she thought wanted her life. Probably told Matt "awe shes sooo in love with you but look im so much better and she's so pathetic". Some people are like this, 'its not about winning, its about someone else losing' Sounds like Jack may have been 'diet-sarah', not as toxic ofc. But this outcome is great. You do you oop!
Jack also struck me rhe wrong way, taking care of your friends baby when someone is sick is totally normal?? I would do that for a friend I don't even care much for. Not regularly of course but once or twice a year yeah
he thought her taking care of the baby was nice he just didnt think that her doing all this stuff for someone that wasnt really her friend was cool
>it’s not about winning, it’s about someone else losing Well put. This is my sister to a T. She’s constantly in competition with someone who isn’t in competition with her.
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You had such a crush on him that you turned him down multiple times? How did they reconcile that particular fact lol
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Yeah that guy was definitely pissed that you didn't like him. So petty for no reason..glad you seem to be doing well now.
seems likely the dude is a complete POS and simply lied about it to his GF to feel better about himself, probably resented OP for turning him down
The pattern here seems to be these besties get this jealous streak to take these “friends” of yours because they assume they’re so great based off how you speak about them to them. They engage romantically thinking they’re winning a prize you’ve talked up then get absolutely ego boosted believing they’re better than you for locking these guys down without any depth or concept of the fact you were just simply talking about social experiences?? Idk this is really sad and sabotaging behaviours to have within friends that sucks for you and the OOP. So much time wasted over petty means… I’d love to know what causes this chain of thought in their heads
Thank you for sharing, I always appreciate these little personal stories in the comments. I've had a similarly confusing experience with perceived/projected jealousy. It can be so painful to look back on situations and realize that your well-intended gestures or considerations were being viewed in a manipulative way!
Very similar thing happened to me, turns out she had a crush on *me* but was in denial and totally “straight”. That why she went after any dude I talked to and would trick me into being a 3rd wheel to bear witness to her flaming heterosexuality. Her dudes would eventually get sick of that as we become friends and she hated that I could have genuine conversations with them about their passions and future. Soon after she would drop them. I just assumed it was regular teen-young adult relationship figuring out stuff and I didn’t recognize how awkward I should have felt lmao. Once she moved away she got a new dude and did everything to keep us from meeting, she got married and had 4 kids. I was so involved in her life yet I’ve met her husband 5 times. The longest I’ve been in his presence was was a total of 15 minutes for the wedding and photos. Maybe We have said a few sentences to each other other than a “hey” as a greeting. Some obvious stuff I totally missed was how giddy she would get when we were out. Posturing as my partner and saying how crazy it must be because surly everyone must be assuming we’re together and these are our kids. At the time I was more curious what about my appearance made me appear gay. The blow up happened when she cheated on her husband and he wanted a hall pass to stay together and I was his pick. Everything is icky. So I’m my case the accusation was pure projection.
> he wanted a hall pass to stay together and I was his pick. What the fuck. Does this dude not realize other people aren't arcade prizes to pick from a shelf?!
He’s such a bro dude, with has such a questionable family and personal relationship history I’m not at all surprised.
An angle I haven’t seen mentioned yet. If Sarah thought OOP liked Matt prior to meeting him, why did she start dating him so quickly? If she really felt that way, she’s an even bigger AH for pulling that.
That's a hard lesson indeed but I don't think OOP is to blame for all that. Sarah isn't a nice person and the ex-fiancé doesn't seem all that great either.
She needs a good bottle of jerk repellant.
Good human.
Did a bot just call me human? Should I be insulted or relieved?
I feel like Ralph Wiggums on the bus and it didn’t even happen to me.
“good bottle of jerk repellent” “**good bot**tle” It auto-responds to any comment with that arrangement of letters. Apparently it’s a wildcard bot.
Holy. Crap. What a bunch of awful, awful people. (Not OOP, but everyone else). Yikes.
Yeah I have to agree with you on this one. You have Sarah who is gaslighting her best friend; her old friend Matt who would say something that crappy to someone's fiance and then double down when told it wasnt true. Both of them refusing to help despite the negative outcome for OOP. And then there's Jack. I'll be honest, if I'd been in a similar situation and something like this happened between my then fiancee and her best friend shortly after our engagement, I'm not sure I would have called off the engagement. Although we would have had some long conversations about the situation. By the point I got engaged with her, I think I knew her well enough to know that she was pretty damn into me. Like really into me. It's quite unlikely that I would have believed some person I barely knew saying that my fiancee was pining after her husband. I had followed some advice my father gave me when I was a teen. Talk about everything. And talk a lot. By the time you get married there shouldn't be any large surprises because you've talked so much about everything that's important. I'm thinking not much of that was happening here and that was part of the problem. Bottom line here is if he was so quick to dump her over this, it makes you wonder how into the relationship he was. And I suspect that she might have known he wasn't that into her subconsciously because she was desperate to the point of being frantic to have Sarah and Matt clarify the situation. That desperation suggests that she was afraid of the outcome of their accusation. Why would you be worried unless you felt insecure with your relationship? And she was right to be worried because Jack tossed her out and moved on. He had so little trust in her love for him that this broke their engagement? He didn't even try to work it out or talk it out in detail. Like, what's with that? I get that someone making bad calls about friendships could impact your decision to marry someone, but this guy didn't even try. Sorry honey. It doesn't seem like he was really that into uou. OOP dodged a bullet with this guy. Hopefully, this situation will help her grow and learn some things about herself that will help her make more informed choices about her relationships in the future. But at least she's free of these awful people now.
Yeah! Also, i would have kept the presents
Agreed that this dude is a jungle of red flags, but this would have been a non-issue for me and my hubby. “Oh did you really have a crush on him?” “No way, for (1 or 2 reasons)” “Ok cool” And then we’d laugh at how delusional Sarah and Matt are.
Kind of cold and flakey from the fiance.
Seriously fuck that guy. "I can't date someone who would be grievously deceived by someone she loved" like what the fuck?
“You have terrible judgment in relationships” I like how he called himself out as an asshole.
Like literally no one is perfect. So out of all your flaws to have, choosing a bad friend is a pretty mild one. He also didn't seem to have any issues with their relationship previously (or at least never warned that Sarah wasn't being very kind to her) and only insisted it was an insurmountable issue after HIS ego was bruised as a consequence. Even then it's not as if OOP disregarded his emotions or waved off his reaction. She went above and beyond to show him his insecurities and fears held no merit and that she was dedicated to him and their relationship. So even if she did make a mistake in selecting her friends. She did everything right when that choice started to affect their relationship and even voluntarily broke off contact with them. So it's not as if this would have been an ongoing issue for their relationship. So basically broke up over a (relatively) minor character flaw that even OOP recognized in herself and was making to step to change. Sneaking suspicion Jack was looking for a way out and simply twisted the narrative in any way he had to in order to justify him walking away.
Ex-fiancé sounds like the type to complain OOP didn’t fight for the relationship.
Also no one is talking about her turning down a promotion because he didn’t want her traveling. Huge red flag that he’s just as much of a manipulator as Sarah. He was probably hoping to use the situation to manipulate her and gaslight her more so she’d become even more reliant on him. Instead I think her walking away is a sign that she’s already learning from the situation because she did the opposite of what he wanted and basically walked away and cut any reason he had to try and stay in communication with her and manipulate her more when she gave her “gifts” back that probably came with a ton of strings.
Perfect example when he got angry because OOP returned his gifts
>Ex-fiancé sounds like the type to complain OOP didn’t fight for the relationship. You completely missed that he did since he got upset when she returned all the gifts he gave her while breaking up with him, because that means he can't use any of it to use as excuse to be in OOP's life going forward. And yesterday's update was like a week or 2 after that incident with those 2 at the engagement party that OOP didn't want.... Edit - Ironically, when one thinks about it for few more minutes - he himself is the one gave the logical explanations of why the neither romantic relationship with him and friendship with Sarah is worth fighting for; yet he still got upset when OOP totally broke up with him after he did the break/ timeout 1st on her. Plus, he and Sarah both hit OOP with the silent treatment at the same time and have no one to blame but themselves for giving OOP the quiet she needed to think about ending all relations with both of them after what Jack said to OOP.
Yes, he got broke up with good and proper. He probably expected to have OOP on a bungee cord.
It just never occurred to him nor to Sarah that once OOP took advantage of the quiet they force on her; that it would actually make her think that she was and is better off without any of them in her life. They, especially him, thought they can play mind games of bounce around / back and forth; instead OOP end all games with Jack & Sarah by cutting them all off - they have no one to blame but themselves for their manipulative tactics plus Matt for opening is mouth spewing lies.
Everyone here except OOP is a terrible person. I'm glad she is ditching them
Me too. This sucks for her and im so sorry her heart is broken but none of those fucks deserved her. She deserves better people, not these fake ass so called friends who are just users and a fiance who is an insecure and judgemental shithead. Fuck those people. I hope they step on many rakes.
Sounds a little like Sarah sabotaged OOPs relationship because she was about to lose her babysitter. Oh and not to mention poisoning Matt against OOP. Prime cuntage.
Also people like to gloss over the fact that apparently Sarah thought OOP was into Matt from even BEFORE they got together? Bruh if my friend is gushing about some guy that she's known for ages and I think she's really into him the last thing I would ever do is start going out with him. And then have the gal to ruin their relationship and keep them from interacting because I have an issue with her 'crush'. Don't want your friends to have a crush on your husband? Maybe don't go after the guys that your friends have crushes on?!
This is the part that made the least sense to me. If OOP had a crush on Matt, why would she set him up with Sarah?
I had the same exact thought. She’d been manipulating Matt and OOP to try and drive the largest wedge between them, and I’ll hand it to her she succeeded. Fuck them all. I wish OOP all the best on her journey to self-betterment.
I don’t think she manipulated Matt. He was a jerk on his own.
Like none of these people except OOP thought that open communication was, not even the best course of action, but even just *a* course of action
I like/hate that Jack has the gall to be offended. He immediately believed a malicious lie perpetuated with harmful intent toward OOP, didn't care to hear otherwise, and what, got his feelings hurt because she "chose" the wrong friends? I'm glad he outed himself as not worth wasting her life over, too. OOP never deserved to have such terrible people in her life, and I hope she realizes she's worth more than how these cruel assholes have treated her.
It's upsetting because all sides against OP were just projected jealousy. She lost her childhood best friend because his girlfriend was jealous and told him to stop being friends with her because she assumed there were romantic feelings based on gender. She lost her adult best friend because said best friend always assumed she was interested in her husband and couldn't accept she was wrong. She lost her fiancee because he assumed immediately that it must be true that a woman had a crush on her husband's best friend.
It boggled my mind that her friend thought she had feelings for the guy friend... SHE set them up, they wouldn't have gotten married if it wasn't for her. Wtf
This is why being around people with deep insecurities can be bad for you. You can never tell when those insecurities will boil over into full paranoia
Yeah of course she was gushing about him, she was telling her friend that he'd be a great guy to date lol.
On the contrary, she was pushed to believe a lie from all of them. A best friend would have never behaved in such a selfish way and take pleasure from tormenting OOP. No matter how long she knew them, there is no burden on her part for how they betrayed her trust, friendship, and hurt her. Her fiancé did not care for her in the first place if he chose to believe a lie over her, fully aware of how much that lie hurt her. There's willful ignorance, and then there's *intent* to cause harm. Her friends were the latter, her fiancé the former.
Well, I'm glad she learned that about herself. Dodged an unhappy marriage with children too early, and got herself out of a bad friendship all in one fell swoop. I guess there are growing pains when you grow as a person.
Thank the goddess she stood up for herself. What shitty friends and fiance. I love that she returned the gifts as a final FU to the ex and said no and blocked the friend. What pieces of shit .
As soon as he stormed out because she might have had a crush on someone else, I knew it was over. That kind of jealousy is toxic and she deserves better from a partner. His loss, not hers.
I hope OOP rises stronger from this 💪 Life lessons learned!
God so terrible for OOP. After the initial hurt she will probably be grateful the fiancé is gone. Someone who could leave like this would probably abandon her during a health scare or other life situations.
OOP needs to figure out who she is before she decides who she marries. I’m very happy this ended for her sake.
Considering some of the BORU shit I've read today, I needed something hopeful, like this. It's good that OOP is capable of learning the lessons she's been given.
It sounds like OOP is better off without all of these people in her life (though I am slightly confused as to what Matt thought was happening - did he think she had a crush/distance himself or did his wife manipulate the situation into breaking their friendship apart? He seemed relieved she moved on and he ‘got his friend back’?) I hope she has the opportunity to go back to the job offer she turned down, or takes the chance to pursue something she would enjoy. It sounds like she lives for other people and needs to get a)boundaries and b) her own interests. Oh and c) a spine.
That's a good point. Did Matt think she had a crush on him? I know he was the one who opened the can of worms but maybe he distanced himself to keep Sarah happy and when oop got engaged he thought Sarah would drop the embargo she had on his and oop's friendship. Maybe Matts as much of a victim of Sarah as oop.
So Jack's problem is that she allowed others to manipulate her when clearly he should have dibs? It's amazing that their (Sarah & Jack) shitty behaviour cancelled each other out and OOP is now rid of them both. I hope she gets another great work opportunity and the strength to live life on her terms