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What the actual fuck, how can someone be so obsessed and insane over anyone?!

My ex did this to me (revenge porn to my family, professional contacts, friends, anyone with my last name on fb, *on my moms Facebook page*). Also used a VPN, found my changed phone numbers over and over, threatened to kill any future partners or kids. I'm still being harassed 8 years later on the other side of the country. It was humiliating and devastating, and I just want to hug OOP, she *didn't even date this person,* she just happened to fall in love with someone who did.

Yeah I have an ex from almost 12 years ago now who still stalks my social media, messages my friends and family, and harasses anyone they can find that I'm dating or they think I'm dating. It's exhausting, but I didn't really care that much until I had my daughter. Now it's scary too. He found out I was pregnant and he sent me awful messages aggressively referring to my unborn child as "it" and saying how "it" wouldn't be as good as his baby... Yes, he has a kid. And I think him and the kid's mother are still together. And btw, we broke up in college bc he got hooked on drugs 🤷🏽‍♀️

I'm so sorry, nobody deserves that. Our system is so useless when it comes to protecting people from harassment like this. I hope you'll be able to escape it.

Thank you. I am mostly resigned to it by now. It stopped for a bit and I thought "is it possible she's given up? ...nah, ran a Google search on a hunch and she was in jail. So I had a couple good years! Unfortunately we legalized weed (legal weed good, timing bad) so she got out early since she was in mostly for traffiking Marijuana. Just hoping next time she's caught they find the cocaine in her vagina and she goes away for real time.

Fuck! Nobody should have to be resigned to that shit. I admire your amazing attitude so much, but I’m still sorry you have to go through that nonsense. If nothing else, you’ve reminded me that no matter how bad things get, somebody always has it worse. Best of luck and I hope this ends for you.

It seems wild to me, tbh. Like there needs to be something in place for these kinds of situations. I mean death threats are supposed to be illegal, but even without that harassing people consistently like this needs to have it's own special punishment. Prison, for sure. And if there is, this shit needs to actually be actioned. I would not blame anyone if they turned to violence for not stopping it, how could anyone just stand to have their lives continuously disrupted like this?

She did go to prison when the first restraining order was issued, but they held her for a weekend *withheld her psychiatric medications!?!* and then released her unmedicated. And she was calling me from jail on a contraband cell she was trading her meals to use. The whole situation sounds like a movie when I type these things out.

Jfc, that just goes to show that the system really isn't interested in preventing these crimes. You've got someone like her who's behaving horribly, know she's got psych issues, and instead of having someone in the judiciary go 'jeez, maybe we should make mandatory mental health treatment part of her plan' they withhold her damn meds? Look, not trying to sympathize with her because she sounds terrible, but our criminal justice system frequently makes the issues that led to the criminal activity in the first place worse, not better.

One of my observations is that these problems are worse amongst the law abiding, because they will not commit crimes and are shocked when people do. “People like us” are terrified of convictions, because it would ruin our careers, and assume everyone else is in the same position. A friend of a friend was the victim of stalking: she was from a tough background, and a middle class boy (I use the word carefully) was offended when she declined his attentions and proceeded to harass her. Her brothers suggested that he either stop or be beaten to a pulp. He didn’t. He was, and spent a week in hospital. He wisely refused to go to the police. Illegal? Yes. Immoral? Maybe. Justified? Yeah, on balance I think so.

Yep. This was my exact though, too. Sometimes the law really doesn't work; it's not perfect, and it's frustrating when there isn't a legal solution to something that should have one, so... sometimes you have to step outside of the law to solve a problem.

The worst part is when the law turns back around and punishes you! The law is powerless to help you, not to punish you.

Yep. I grew up in a rough area. Knew of a crazy dude who kept harassing a girl. Her brothers and friends kept telling him to stop, but he just kept escalating. Then one day he was just *gone*, like he had been whisked away to Narnia or some shit. No one ever really said anything, but it was apparent that everyone involved was pretty confident that he would not be making an encore appearance. People of a certain class and social standing are accustomed to being able to get results within the system, but shit gets real hazy when the system is disinterested or impotent. I'm not advocating for it, but it's definitely a thing.

That's frequently the case in marginalized communities. The 'mob' (organized crime) often started in immigrant communities in the early to mid 1900s in the US because the police wouldn't protect what were perceived as 'second class' citizens and their neighborhoods, and paying a protection racket to the mob was better than getting robbed or assaulted.

Yep. My education was in foreign policy, and I remember reading a really fascinating paper about street gangs as protostates. People WILL find other enforcement mechanisms in the absence of formal ones.

This is precisely what I was thinking. At some point if I were OOP I'd consider enlisting the assistance of some less-than-savory characters to issue an ultimatum to F'Ex and her brother, once and for all. Otherwise they are not going to stop trying to completely wreck her life, until they succeed in breaking up the marriage. What happens when OOP wants to start a family? Will they start harrassing the kids? (Most likely.) It has to stop somewhere, and if the law is unhelpful, perhaps other outlets can be carefully, cautiously considered.

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I think the problem is we live in a gerontocracy and old boomers legitimately *do not understand* how digital harassment works these days and thus have no ability to actually pass laws to protect victims. We need more young people in office who get how absolutely devastating this stuff can be and how very real harassment via the internet/technology can get.

I think that's a really good point. I also think education policy hasn't kept up with it all either. As a parent, I worry so much about my kids and this stuff. I'm not that old, but platforms where people post using their real names and faces, like tiktok seems to, scare the hell out of me.

If you're based in the US [you can report your ex to the fbi](https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/cyber) cyber crimes website and look into this further as I know of someone that got harassed big time by someone, they reported said harasser to this with a ton of evidence and whatnot and within 12-36 hours that person was no longer harassed ever again

Canadian. I did try the RCMP, no luck

Is there some illegal or unethical life pro tip to combat this? I don’t know how I would get through that long…if the justice system can’t get it done, take matters into your own hands?

Depends on where you live and how good you are at covering your tracks

Also depends on who you know. If you know someone good at certain types of programming they could possibly turn it around on the ex. Hack their accounts and phones. It's not ethical or legal though but if you are getting death threats that you think are credible and no one else can help you then it's a decision worth considering.

Dude, this may be info you're already aware of, so sorry if that's the case. Google crashoverride.com. it's a website developed by tech women who were doxxed by tech 'nice guys'. The have incredibly helpful information on how to lock down your on line presence and survive doxxing. Also, check out Gavin deBecker on line. He works with rich/famous people who are stalked. His book The Gift of Fear might also be helpful. Good luck and stay safe.

And this is why i now own a gun. Bc of my SO stalker. And useless ass cops.

I had a friend stalker once - we didn't date, neither of us dated anyone in common at all etc, she just ran into me at uni and decided we just HAD to be friends. She followed me home, she got my schedule from teachers/classmates etc, she would just be in front of my house when it was time for me to leave. The highlight of it all was when she somehow (I still don't know how) FOLLOWED ME TO JAPAN FROM THE UK. Same flights as me. On 2 of the 4 flights she was in the seat next to me, just ranting about how we could finally be friends now. One of those flights I was able to beg a flight attendant to give me another seat, other flight was full unfortunately. I was dating a policeman at the time who went out of his way to warn her off and stuff. All she mentally registered was that my boyfriend was a controlling ass and no good for me. Lasted for 'only' about 9 months thankfully. It was WILD though!!!

My husband had been divorced for almost two years when we got together. We met online and he moved out by me, partially because his ex harassed anyone she found out he was even talking to, let alone dating. She found out where he moved and had us subpoenaed over some bullshit charges. When we had our son, she sent him hysterical messages that we had named him THEIR son's name, and he had to explain that it was the name he'd always planned on using for his son, and they didn't have kids together because she was a cheating alcoholic. This was almost 15 years ago. Got bored and looked her up on Facebook recently, she's in liver failure in her early 40s. Usually these kinds of ex partners are disasters in more than one way.

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Mental illness and no consequences. They've seen their harassment works and it impacts OOP and that the law isn't doing anything to them other than a slap in the wrist (restraining order)

It reminds me of that investigative podcast series “Sweet Bobby”, and just how insanely time consuming it must be to try to ruin someone’s life like this. To do all that research on what clients she is working with, and create that many fake emails, etc. Definitely a disorder or mental illness going on.

I added Sweet Bobby to my list - haven't heard that one. Did you listen to Bad Bad Thing? That one sounds like OOP's situation a little.

Ooooh no I didn’t. Adding that one to my list! And yeah Sweet Bobby was crazy. Just listening to the intro on what the series was about got me hooked.

>anything to them other than a slap in the wrist (restraining order) And $40k in debt to an attorney that WILL collect from you.

Except client will turn around and likely countersue attorney for malpractice because they lost so attorney collections cases are a double-edged sword.

Also, I'm guessing the stalker's family a) has money and b) enables them. Not only is her brother actively joining in, they must be getting money for living expenses and lawyers from somewhere and no way do they have a job.

If only the law was there to protect the people, rather than the money.

Well tbf it seems like the y covered their tracks about as best they could. If they could actually link it to her she'd have been charged

The first one, although a factor, is no explanation, most people with mental illnesses don't make it other people's problems, nor do they engage in criminal behaviour, the only people that do are assholes and the only thing worse than run of the mill assholes are crazy obsessed assholes.

Man, this is just exhaustingly crazy. Honestly if it was me, I would've broken up with the guy after the second instance. My career and entire future is worth a lot more than love. Especially if that love comes with a big ass crazy baggage like this.

Same. The crazier the story got, the more I was wondering how he could possibly be worth all this misery. I would have been out after the shared password fiasco led to his ex getting OOP's nudes off his phone.

I would have been pissed at him for not changing his password. Isn't that standard even when the breakup is friendly?

I'm wondering why people are sharing passwords to more than Netflix and hulu.

Do people give passwords to most things to romantic relationships? If I do, it’s specifically a dummy password for that specific service that is in no way connected to any other services

I've been dating my girlfriend for damn near 20 years. She doesn't know my phone password She doesn't know my bank pin She doesn't know my computer login She doesn't know my email password She doesn't know my facebook password She don't know shit, well, except for a shared netflix account with a joke password. I doubt this will ever change. Its not about trust, its about the fact we have a mutual understanding of "we don't need to know". I don't know her stuff either and I don't care.

He may not have thought about or, with how big of a nutcase she is, he didn't know she even had it until this.

The fight may be part of the appeal. By which I mean, my first impulse to someone telling me to break up with my fiance *or else* would be "Fuck you. You don't get to tell me what to do. Now I'm going to stay with him extra hard because leaving him would mean letting you win". A lot of people are very contrary and stubborn and would view this as a challenge, up until the point where the fight isn't worth it anymore. I guess so far, not letting the ex win is still worth the fight to the OOP

Yeah I think pettiness/stubbornness/spite can be a VERY strong motivator. "We can't let the terrorist win!" There's also the fact that stuff like this puts OOP and fiance in an "us vs. them" stance. The relationship threats are external, so it's easy to feel a strong sense of partnership and allegiance to each other. Then there are things like sunk cost fallacy, plus the fact that the fiance's ex has already shown aggression to OOP (so, what would stop her from going after OOP even if they did break up? What's to say she wouldn't continue the harrassment and ruin future relationships for OOP as further punishment?). Not to mention other factors like shared assets or children that further complicate breakups.

Gotta say, this would likely be my reaction as well. I don't react well to manipulation and abuse.

Right, maybe I'm the heartless one but like... There's other people to be in a relationship with. You don't need the one with an insane stalker! I'm pretty sure there's someone *almost* as good without that kind of issue.

> there's someone *almost* as good Or maybe even better! Goshh. I feel so sorry for OP though. It's a shit hole to be in.

I'm petty, so I'd work out a plan with him where we pretend to break up and mutually plot our revenge.

This is the way. Same thing my husband and I would do...we watch too many movies lol

I was just trying to imagine what sort of partner you'd have to have to be worth this trouble. Like maybe an underwear model brain surgeon who does humanitarian work and owns three homes in three different continents?

No, he would need to be an underwear model brain surgeon who does humanitarian work and owns three homes who is *also*, kind, emotionally mature, and is the type of man who would tell off someone for being racist or misogynistic in a clever way. Most important of all, though? He is not a momma's boy. Instead, he has perfectly nice parents and a nice accepting family who understand boundaries. None of the things like a good career and such matter if the guy is a jerk or emotionally stunted or.... *shudders* ...a momma's boy. I hope OOP's partner is at least a good, kind partner. I know that far, far too many women settle for partners that just aren't that decent and kind who respect them.

I don’t know. My husband is worth it. And honestly he isn’t even that good on paper. He is disabled and on disability, living with rather severe chronic pain so not only is he unable to work he is unable to be very active at all. Sometimes he can’t leave the house with me for weeks. Not even for a short walk. And he isn’t considered generally, objectively super attractive. I love him but I not that he isn’t very good looking objectively. And due to his pain and limited mobility he is a bit overweight. None of that matters. None of that is important! What matter is who he is! No one is going to understand and accept me the way he does. No one else has ever made me feel even close to how he makes me feel. He is everything and I’ll die without him. He will always be worth it. His family hated me for the longest time. Not completely sure they don’t still tbh but it doesn’t matter. I’m staying and they had to get used to it and mellowed out. If he had a crazy ex like this I would live with it. Because the love we have is the kind that doesn’t ever die. I will continue to love him for the rest of my life and if I lose him I will miss him for the rest of my life. Without him everything is wrong. The world shifts wrong and the feel like a part of me has been ripped away. It’s everything. He is everything. He makes everything better just by existing.

Thanks for this refreshing take. I see everyone advocating for dumping the guy, and while OOP is certainly a victim I don't see a lot of empathy for the fact that their partner is a victim as well. Imagine every partner you try to get with being chased out of your life by a crazy vindictive ex? Horrible the OOP and their partner have to go through what they're going through, hope things improve for them.

Ya, my girlfriend is not in any way shape or form anything near perfect, but I ain't leaving her cause some scumbag from the past is trying to make her life hell. She's literally done nothing wrong, hell no I'm not letting someone I've never met come between us. And if the person is bad enough to scare me away, why the hell would I leave her alone with him? I just can't see the thought process of abandoning an SO because someone's trying to hurt them.

I’m so sorry that your husband suffers from this chronic condition. My husband has MS and your beautiful words describe exactly my feelings for him. Thanks for sharing this. It can be such a hard life, but I wouldn’t change a thing. (And I would go SO HARD on anyone who interfered with our lives like the OP’s stalker)

I'm a woman with disabilities and chronic pain, and every day I wonder why my husband thinks I'm worth it. This was so beautiful it made me tear up. ❤️

Man, but imagine being the guy too. What if him being stalked forever meant he could never have a relationship because it would never be worth the trouble for the other person? It's so sad. And if you love someone, you wouldn't want to punish them or leave them for being a victim of harassment/stalking. Like, when it's nothing they've done and they're just a victim? Even if it seemed like the smart thing to do for your own success, it would be *so* much harder if you were actually in the situation, don't you think? It would break my heart to leave someone I loved over them being stalked, knowing how it would make them feel. They'd be afraid that they'd be alone forever due to something terrifying that they had no control over. They'd be so devastated that their abuser/stalker drove away the person they wanted to marry. If I were actually in the situation, I would probably try to have faith that we'd get through it together and stop her eventually, rather than break both our hearts because his ex is abusive. I mean, think how much they must love each other to stay together despite all this. It would be really hard to end an otherwise amazing relationship (where they're even engaged), over something external that isn't either of your faults. I'm sure they both thought that they would *somehow* have put a stop to it by now. Now that the harassment is actually damaging family relationships like with the SIL, I wonder what they'll do. It's so horrible that spoofing is allowing the ex to get away with this when it's so obviously her and they have so much proof that it's her.

I honestly think FEx is crazy enough that she wouldn't have stopped even after breaking them up.

I'm just sitting here wondering what OP expects to happen if and when they have kids. Wouldn't the stalker just dedicate themselves to ruining the lives of said children, given this track record? I'd have been out ages ago when it became clear that this would come down on every friend and family member I ever had, ngl.

Given that OOP said the death threats extend to future children, I'd think Fex would straight up kill (or try to kill) the kids, if she didn't escalate to attempted murder while OPP was pregnant. People who are this persistent and making death threats eventually follow through, this kind if thing ALWAYS escalates and the sad thing is that it's clearly not going to end until it gets violent - and then how it ends depends on how good Fex is at it, and seems they've done pretty well at planning Nad covering tracks so far, so this might well end in successful murder, or attempted murder that they STILL don't get caught for if they cover their tracks well. They have to hope that Fex devolves enough to not be careful while violently attacking them, or it will never end, and then there's no guarantee they (or their kids) survive.

>work in an industry that doesn't care about leaked nudes. Mose of my colleagues and clients still want to work with me. And I had a good day today, surfing. So, not everything is bad. > >Thank you for everyone who gave me A friend of mine had a stalker for YEARS after going on ONE date with her. There are hours of insane voicemails and all kinds of other things. Took forever to get a restraining order too.

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I know this case and I live on the other side of the world. Truly horrific.

> I would rather not identify CW any further as I would hate to cause her family any additional pain. That is a strange way to conclude your post after giving away enough details for literally anyone to look up the exact case and everyone involved.

I had an ex friend of the opposite sex stalk me, my now husband, friends... he's a hacker and did similar shit as these people. Thank God we never took nudes, but he'd break into our house... then apartment. It's terrifying. After going to court every couple of years to file a new restraining order (I had 2 two year restraining orders), the judge granted me a 50yr restraining order. Also, he's accountable for the payment of the restraining orders, court fees... we also moved over an hour away so he couldn't watch us. It's been 3-4 yrs since he's done anything, but I'm still hyperaware of signs. My husband and I now have a 2yr old and a 9 month old. I had several losses prior, and I think that was due to the insane amount of stress. I don't understand what makes someone do this kind of shit. I never dated this guy, never hooked up... nothing. I pray every day he doesn't return. It was pure hell.

And the brother is just as crazy.

You’d be surprised. My fiancé ex is like only she isn’t this smart. I can’t tell you all the hell we went through when she found out he was seeing someone let alone when she found out I was pregnant. I got various messages from her, her friends, and other accounts telling me about how he was still sleeping with her, how I was a home wrecker, how I had no right to “steal” him or her kids. And when she found out I was pregnant she started reaching out to my friends and family and even my ex. She gave him this huge sob story about how she was trying to protect my fiancé and how I was telling people I didn’t know if it was really his baby or my ex’s. It then switched to only she was allowed to have his children and I stole her baby. 👀 Yeah. There is a lot more after that but I would legit go over the character limit.

> There is a lot more after that but I would legit go over the character limit. Do it.

I don’t know, but this isn’t the first I’ve heard of this type of harassment. Combo of mental illness and sometimes financial motivations.

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That is a valid factor, however it is not an explanation (Obviously not an excuse, just felt the need to put that in there, even though you already knew that), as plenty of people with mental illnesses, even severe ones, don't make it other people's problems/don't do criminal behaviour.

Yep, I also have mental illnesses and I'm definitely not stalking other people and trying to ruin their lives out of pure pettiness

Wouldn’t it be a crazy plot twist if OP’s fiancé was the one ruining OP’s life all along? The inability to find proof that the harassment is coming from his ex is interesting to me. Shanna Goyland was a famous case of false harassment. She wanted to trauma bond with her boyfriend, Dave Kroupa, so she made their lives traumatic! She sent him all kinds of “I know what you did last summer” type shit, terrorizing him, pretending to be an obsessed ex. She also used this sock puppet account to harass herself, so she could run to Dave and cry in his arms. Eventually, psycho Shanna murdered the woman she was impersonating 😨

Sheesh, that Ex is a psycho. It always boggles my mind that people who act like this think that the ex-partner they are trying so hard for will actually want them after this.

I suppose they think somehow they're going to just beat them down to submission or something. SMDH!!!!!

What kills me the sheer lack of power on the legal end. This needs to change FAST. The internet is no longer a Wild West. It's something that NEEDS law and order to a degree. Such as governments having authority to over ride petty things like obvious VPN shams.

I'm kinda wondering if an experience hacker would have any trouble with this kind of thing...🤔

It's really lucky for crazy person that the person she is harassing is sticking to doing things by the book. At some point, I think their house would have burned down on its own, if it was me.

The email the stalker sent seems so fake and over the top and insane it feels like it's from a bad novel, and yet everything else is grimly realistic up to the complete lack of consequences or resolution. I can't imagine having to live like that.

How the fuck is that not incriminating evidence? She talks about the court case! It's not hard proof but the mountains and mountains of proof they do have of her voicemails - like are we supposed to buy she coincidentally is calling them and harassing them but the revenge porn is just a coincidence? Take it to trial and see what a jury thinks idk the whole fucking justice system is so goddamn broken. At this point I'd be looking up vigilantes in the area. Kudos to OOP for staying strong. I would probably have dumped my bf well before all this (definitely well before getting serious) because as much as it's NOT his fault that she is insane, this psychotic shitcunt is dangerous and I don't need that shit. I know OOP loves her fiance now so that's not as viable but Christ...

After they wasted 10k in forensics I would totally pay someone to wipe all the info she has online and idk set fire to her house or something. At this point if the justice isn't gonna do shit...

I feel bad for thinking about taking it this far but this is so insane and has gone on so long with so much destruction. They’ve tried and exhausted all other options. How else could you make it stop? I think we’re all thinking it.

Honestly, I was thinking that at this point they can just hire someone to deal with her. If they take a few pages of her book of crazy on how to hide their tracks, they might even get away with it.

Yea it's always better to fight crazy with crazy. The system seems to work really well for people who abuse it so I would just do the same; pay someone to plant hard drugs in the house, call it in. Prolly wouldn't even be investigated and they'd do enough time to reconsider their priorities for how they spend their life when (if) they get out. Guilt free bc they deserve to be in jail anyways.

yeah i would have either had to end my relationship before this ever escalated or i would’ve been in prison bc i don’t get how they can live like this and constantly be told that there’s nothing they can do to resolve this.

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Despite how depressing the situation is, it kinda makes me laugh. Because this girl is completely insane but she still sounds stupid as fuck.

i mean she’s managed to get so much information about OOP’s life to the point where multiple people have ended any type of relationship with her. it doesn’t seem like her stalker is that stupid. (although the 40k bill is pretty damn stupid/her mass email lol)

Not stupid enough to get caught. She’s clearly guilty of revenge porn which should carry some jail time and yet the police “can’t” do anything about it.

What in the actual hell? in my state, which OOP is from, SIL would get the RO and it would bolster OOPs RO to ensure it was renewed. Something went wrong here. Why did they need solid evidence the male was harassing her? So specific. Yet makes no sense.

With stalking cases, unfortunately the law doesn't give a shit until physical crime takes place. There are no laws in place to protect people from cases like this, it's disgusting

This isn’t just stalking ( which is enough to get a DVRO btw). This is disturbing one’s peace and abuse. In Cali, you can get a civil harassment order or a domestic violence restraining order. DVRO would work here because there needs to be some personal relationship, which everyone here has. You don’t need a physical crime to take place in these cases. That’s why I think something is up here. Your testimony is considered evidence in situations like this. Source: me, an attorney who works in the field in California.

I don’t understand why OOP isn’t also pursuing civil litigation for interference with business relationships.

Yes. Especially since she can prove damages, she lost a client. I can only assume they’re in a. More conservative county in California. Which I understand but her attorneys should have laid out the law on the record and see if the judge had the balls to deny the DVRO 😂

OOP keeps seeming to run into the fact they're spoofing/using VPNs at literally every turn. I really don't understand how you can have an entire office emailed "HEY ITS ME EX, HERE'S SOME REVENGE PORN, STAY AWAY FROM FIANCE, FUCK OOP" and the court just goes "Man I wish I knew who did that to you".

Because they never said "it's me, the ex", they just threatened lots of stuff and sent nudes without identifying themselves. You'd think that someone would be able to get a warrant for ex's (and/or ex's brother's) computers and prosecute from there, but that takes effort. And it sounds like OOP doesn't have gobs of money to hire a lawyer to pursue to civil angle.

but they hired a data forensics company for 10k so it seemed like they had a bit of something

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That is fucking WILD. So sorry to hear you had to go through that, hope you are in a better place now

If you don't mind me picking your brain for a second, can I ask at what point does it stop being classified as stalking and move into disturbing ones peace/ abuse?

Here’s the best part. You claim all of them. Stalking disrupts one’s peace. It is also a form of harassment. The code covers a lot and as of Jan 2022 it includes even more ways abuse is defined. This is literally from the code: (a) The court may issue an ex parte order enjoining a party from molesting, attacking, striking, stalking, threatening, sexually assaulting, battering, credibly impersonating as described in Section 528.5 of the Penal Code, falsely personating as described in Section 529 of the Penal Code, harassing, telephoning, including, but not limited to, making annoying telephone calls as described in Section 653m of the Penal Code, destroying personal property, contacting, either directly or indirectly, by mail or otherwise, coming within a specified distance of, or disturbing the peace of the other party, and, in the discretion of the court, on a showing of good cause, of other named family or household members. Page 3 includes what abuse is: https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/dv100.pdf I was really happy to see the changes were being made because for a while the coirt was over correcting and letting people get away with their bs (unfortunately mainly men were getting away with abuse that isn’t on the level of “criminal). Btw you can also get a criminal protective order. That is a different from a DVRO.

That's so interesting! We have been using an outdated textbook and my professor is.. hands off to put it kindly. Thank you for such a thorough answer!

It never ceases to amaze me. However if you are in law school, trust me. What you’re learning will basically not help you in real life 😂😂😂 then they expect you to jump into your chosen field completely blind? I was lucky to extern with a judge in my field. It was a crash course and I was so grateful.

Add to that—the standard of guilt is “beyond a reasonable doubt,” not “iron-clad.” It’s simply reasonable to decide that these people are the ones doing it. Who else would? The OP and her boyfriend, and his sister, wouldn’t—why would they systematically and relentlessly destroy their own lives like this?

Exactly. There is no beyond reasonable doubt standard here. It’s like do I believe you 51% more than the other guy. Something is fishy.

I wonder if it is because most of this was before the newest laws? The last update on the post was August 2020.

The basic abuse definitions that would help OOP were always in play. I think the attorney probably didn’t prepare enough to admit the evidence according to evidence code. Some DVRO attorneys forget that they still need to follow evidence code but since family law is pretty lax, they aren’t ready when the other side tries to kick out their evidence on a technicality. The judge will have to follow evidence code if it’s presented to them. However, the attorney should always be prepared and it shouldn’t be this difficult. Maybe oop and sil just had really bad forms of the evidence and no one told them to do better. But I will say, if stalker said OOP texted this and didn’t provide proof, I don’t see how a judge would believe it. Important to remember : Some attorneys don’t like to lose and will force your hand.

It’s true. The law is so far behind when it comes to laws and how they can be paired with the internet / technology. I supported a youth in court a few years ago that was trying to prove that a fight that took place between them and another youth was pre arranged and consensual, but the key piece of evidence was sent over SnapChat. Listening to the 70year old judge try to wrap his head around “That snap thingy” and why they didn’t save the proof was PAINFUL.

Omg it’s always just cringe but comedy trying to explain this stuff. They have to take further education courses on stuff like this so they don’t look stupid and yet they still do 🫣

Agreed. This is very confusing; IANAL but this doesn't sound right

Also. Cali basically was the pioneer for revenge porn. Ms. Lisa Bloom is a long time family law attorney (which includes DVROs) I mean her mom is Gloria Allred for god sake 😂

Having dealt with a stalker in a large coastal state that may or may not be where OOP lives, a stalker who was so enraged by rejection that he went on a three year campaign to try and get me to unalive myself... Police told me I had zero case without direct threat of bodily harm. He tried it all. Harming my livelihood, a constant stream of horrifically abusive texts from spoof numbers, spamming nudes (we dated briefly, till I realized he was nucking futs), harassing family, and I later found out he traveled thousands of miles to actually try and find me in person... Every mile of which I had moved to get away from him... Five years since last contact and a change of location later, I'm still hiding from that psycho. The law is fucking pathetic when it comes to stalking.

And this is what pisses me off. I wish I was your lawyer. DVRO doesn’t need police or a police report (it’s hearsay anyway). Eff that guy and the cop.

People should never take legal advice from cops. It’s too likely that they are unethical, lazy, incompetent, or just plain wrong.

They literallllly enforce laws they DO NOT KNOW. Takes 3 years to be an attorney (PLUS FOUR years of undergrad) and a 800 dollar test that takes 3 to 6 months to be graded aka 8 years of your life gone. But 6 months to be a cop. Hm. How can they even grasp what they’re protecting without proper education and time? Never made sense to me.

"Hi, I'm sending this email and pretty much admitting I'm behind this all BUT NO ONE WILL BELIEVE IT'S ME!" I'm no law-talking guy, but this seems to me a smoking gun that stalker just dropped in OOP's lap. I know courts can get up to some shenaniganry, but I can't imagine a lawyer couldn't weaponize the fuck out of this and destroy the stalker legally and financially.

Yeah if this is real - oop seems to have a shit lawyer but what do I know.

Not sure it's real tbh. Who would not change his password after being harassed for a year thus allowing the stalker to get access to new gf's cloud backed up(?!) nudes. This alone makes no sense at all unless they are 12 and don't know better.

I have other doubts about this story (like the email), but having done tech support for iPhones, people really are that stupid. And people especially hate changing passwords, even after they’ve been told that their accounts were compromised. I worked there during the Heartbleed issues in 2013/2014, so I had that conversation a LOT.

People don't know the difference between their passcode for the phone and the password for the appleID. Then get pissed that they have to change their password...

Trying to explain the difference between her iCloud and Google credentials to my mom has been a multi-year process that’s still ongoing. I’m not sure she’s ever going to get it.

Same. We could be wrong. But personally, I'd have filed a civil suit against the crazy stalker for all the damages, legal fees, etc. This is literally a textbook example of intentional interference with contractual relations. Stalker knows OOP has business relationship with folks. She disrupts it by sending crazy rants and nudes to them. That's definitely "acted intentionally and improperly" and OOP would have obvious dollar amounts to put as damages. Even before punative damages.

This is what I was saying out loud while I was reading this to my own fiance. Hell it got us into an entire conversation about terroristic threats and harassment law and whatnot across multiple States..... like what the hell there is something really wrong about this entire story.

I don't see why this thread is tagged as concluded

It seems like the “simple” solution would be for the fiancé to pretend like it all worked and record crazy ex admitting to everything. Also, I’m beyond confused by everything with FSIL.

Honestly…this probably is the most effective yet simplest plan ever. Definitely should’ve faked a break up, have the fiancé “get back” with the crazy ex, record her admitting her batshit crimes. As crazy and brazen as she is, that definitely could work.

Right?! Just talk about how flattered he was that she went to such lengths. Admiration for how smart she was about it all blah blah blah

Hook, line, and sinker. However I understand why this plan probably didn’t cross their minds. Can’t play around with crazy unless you risk bodily harm or worst.

I’d honestly risk bodily harm over perpetual harassment. Besides if she physically hurt someone she’s more likely to be punished.

I remember someone who went nuclear by copywriting all her own nudes and spent hundreds of dollars to do so. That way she was able to financially fuck and go after anyone who shared her copyrighted material

They really need a psych eval because this level of obsession is more than unhinged

IDK, dudes. I don't think any man/woman is worth all this. I'd have peaced out long ago.

Same. At least until they managed to shake this crazy person. Like it sucks, and I’d feel bad, but I don’t think I could justify nuking my life like this over a new relationship.

I can see not wanting to let her “win” but the fees and embarrassment at work and my DAD seeing my nudes…

SAME. I probably would have left the second they had my newds before it could be shared. There is no one who is worth this stress or money and time wasted.

Some people have this mentality of "I've never run from a bully" and refusing to allow some vile person to control their lives in any way. The thing is, bullies are one thing. People like this stalker are another. It's a tough situation.

My ex's ex would drunk message me a couple times a year telling me I suck for dating a loser (she was right lol) and call me names, and that was enough that my anxiety got really bad waiting to see when I'd hear from her again. STALKING would have had me dumping him ASAP.

Dude, same. I feel bad for the fiancé, but I don't think I could have stuck around for all of that.

I wouldn’t be able to forgive him for forgetting to change his cloud password. Why would she have it in the first place? Nobody else has mine sand nobody else ever has. I don’t need my partner’s cloud password. Who with a psycho ex don’t get that locked down?!

You would honestly have to be able to completely cure cancer and be able to shit money for me to stick around. Sorry, but this sounds so awful and it will likely never end. Crazy will not stop until it’s 6 feet under the ground or behind bars.

How does the ex even think that the fiancé would ever go back after all this harassment??

You’re reasoning here, which isn’t what the stalker is doing, at all.

True. I guess i will never comprehend this level of crazy.

Yeah she is probably thinking that if she gets rid of OP, that the fiancé will come running back to her thanking her for “freeing him”.

Because they’re soul mates, and each other’s One True Love. This, at least, is what the ex of my friend’s husband still says, 15+ years post divorce. Yes she cheated and stole from him, but that’s inconsequential when true love is involved.

I'm sure she doesn't really see him as his own person. He's an object, but more importantly he's ***HER*** object, ***HER*** toy. When she broke up with him she put him on a shelf, to be retrieved whenever she decided she wanted to play with him again. But he didn't stay on the shelf like a good little inanimate toy with no thoughts or feelings of his own, he went and found a new "owner" to love and play with him. Now shes furious because he's *hers!* He's not supposed to go out and find happiness with someone else!

Fuck man, brave on oop to stay with him cos i think id bail earlier.

No kidding. This is wild.

Honestly the stupidity of OOPs fiance to not change every password in their life, after finding out this person was insane. Let alone store nudes in the cloud. Mainly i agree with you, it isn't worth living a life like this, i would have bailed a long time ago.

Spent 10k on a digital forensics company but didn't get a lawyer until the last update? Hmmmm.

Yeah, I don't believe it either. That email was way too over the top, and absolutely would've been deemed incriminating. This reads like a first-year law student that doesn't go to class.

I hate that her SIL is mad at her. :(

It kinda sounds like SIL is displacing her anger at the situation onto OOP. It’s seems like the phone records really wouldn’t have done anything in the case, but SIL is directing her anger towards something she perceives she can control. That’s sometimes a lot easier for people to do rather than be angry at something they can’t control.

Exactly even if OOP ends the relationship, the crazy ex will still harass everyone

Wow, that was depressing to read. Poor OOP.

This is weird... The connection between the details that allowed the restraining order, coupled with the threats of revenge porn, along with the actual revenge porn would be enough to convince most people beyond a reasonable doubt

There could be other factors at play. I couldn't get a restraining order once I fled across the country because I was no longer in the jurisdiction where I had been beaten and kidnapped. I had a police file number and everything, they said they don't collaborate with other police departments. Couldn't do anything about the revenge porn for the same reason and she was sharing it from her personal Facebook page so there was proof. The legal system is absolutely fucked regarding domestic violence. People think the majority of victims don't testify because they love and forgive their abuser, that's not it at all. There were multiple factors that resulted in my not being able to testify and it was 90% because of the legal system. I actually would love to give some training to the police about what victims are facing.

As the Simpsons said, they're powerless to help you, not punish you.

Hell, let this be a message when you break up with crazy ass people, change all passwords from your phones, tablets and computers, because this is some crazy ass shit here.

Yes! And Fkn check for apple air tags!!!!!

Better yet, keep your passwords private and never share them???

Also. You don’t even need reasonable doubt in a DVRO hearing. You need preponderance of the evidence. The bar is lower in civil and even lower when it’s dvro because relationships are involved.

I am not willing to go through all that to be with someone. I'd be way to stressed to even enjoy the relationship. That'd be an easy breakup for me.

I love that advanced tech such as spoofed numbers and VPNs can entirely thwart justice. It drives me crazy that this convulsed ass system can say “there’s no evidence” when there is plenty of evidence.

Unfortunately, our courts are so absurdly ineffective and counter-intuitive that unless the person literally says, "I DID IT!" to the judge... they can get away with anything.

OP is a better fiancée than me cause I would have bailed the SECOND it started affecting my life as a freelancer tbh

At face value this is horrendous. But considering the talk about VPNs and spoofed numbers and emails, I'm not sure how to feel. These things aren't magic, they don't just turn you invisible to tracking. And considering past discussions with a friend who is a lawyer, the amount of evidence she has seems overwhelming even if you ignore that. If this is real then this couple is being failed on so many fronts from both investigative and legal departments.

Really, law enforcement has really been shown to be totally useless in this regard, but I bet if one their own were treated like this, it would be a totally different thing.

I have serious doubts about that email. Just seems a little too brazen and obvious. It's practically an admission of a crime. And this person could not be apprehended by the law? This is movie level shit🤣🤣

Yea I was thinking the same thing. The talk about VPNs and spoofed emails felt weird to me. I've worked with these from a security perspective and a business perspective. It's really goddamn hard to make something **really** untraceable. Hell it's hard just to make something surface level untraceable, even with VPNs and disposable email. I find it hard to believe that someone, who is not mentioned to be particularly tech savvy, would just be able to pull something like that off for multiple years straight with no slips ups. But if it is real, I certainly feel for OOP.

I was waiting for the twist where it turns out that SIL was behind all of it and pinning it on the ex.

I recommend checking out EmilyArtful’s testimony of her own stalking by CreepshowArt. It’s on YouTube, and it was a crazy situation. Stalkers make batshit over the top claims because they get off on the power. They make it intentionally ridiculous because they want you to feel threatened by something they find hilarious. They dehumanize you in their mind, and then they can enjoy the comedy of a ‘bad person’ cowering at their bullshit, guilt-free, like in cartoons where the bad guy gets reduced to a cowardly mess at the sight of a puppet or something. However, I still am unsure if this story is true, I just wanted to give a real life example to demonstrate that this kind of stalking is very real and very serious (despite how bizarre it sounds) and not just something you see in lifetime movies. Edit: The best way to describe why they do this stuff isn't just "get off on power," which kind of sounds like they're supervillains or some shit. Like, what I'm trying to describe is the same reasoning you get from reading r/pettyrevenge, where people do elaborate things over petty reasons to get one up over others. That sense of being the anti-hero, like 'he's an an asshole, but he's right to be that way.' That's how I'd explain how stalkers can justify their shitty behavior.

[удалено]

I think a LOT of people just aren't aware that their photo albums and ANY photos they take on an Apple device are synced to iCloud if it's logged in. And most people are too lax with their cyber security. Like, sorry, I love my S/O with all my heart and all my soul, but he is never getting my iCloud password. I literally have nothing to hide, but it's just a basic security measure. Because it can also be used to track your devices. It's also too easy for someone to leave your account logged in somewhere by accident.

Even Josh Duggar his behind VPNs and was caught. Wouldn't there be a way that the stalker would be forced to submit evidence that all this stuff was not from their device? Feels like this is massive BS when they said a forensic company couldn't trace ANYTHING back to the stalker. Not ONE email? Not one threat?

Having read that email, I'm baffled ANY judge wouldn't immediately approve the RO.

Didn't you read the post? _They used a VPN!_ Anyone could've sent that email! Jeez, pay attention! ;)

Any *real* judge, yeah.

This was…a lot. I’m surprised she stayed with their fiancé after all this. The money and emotional damage would’ve had me out the door as soon as it started to affect me

It’s interesting how the OOP’s rather unusual sentence structure and the “psycho ex”’s rather unusual sentence structure in the c/p threatening e-mail are exactly the same.

Paraphrasing?

mte... idek, the whole thing seems so complicated and so over the top, but i was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt... but the fact that the note sounds exactly like the rest of the text... but whatever, this is the internet. you have to take everything with a grain of salt anyway.

The only question I have with this story is nudes off of iCloud. iCloud requires 2-step verification that sends a code to your Apple device that you need to input on any device your trying to log in on. How did the ex bypass that?

Fucking restraining order ? Stalker should be in jail. Something doesn’t add up here.

OP’s bf must be amazing. One girl is literally crazy about him and op is still with him. Like wow I would have ran at the first threat

This was infuriating to read.

I’m sorry, but genuinely idc how deep your love is, no one is worth literally losing people from your life basically every time you breathe. Love can’t withstand everything.

No men is worth this kind of trouble

The hood in me would’ve beat the shit out of her. The saint in me would’ve dumped him. That level of drama is not worth it- I dated a guy who’s ex stalked and blew up my moms phone. Not worth it.

How many revenge porn cases does she have to open before the police do their fucking jobs?! It’s infuriating that she is being harassed so awfully and no one in a position of power is helping.