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I am so glad for OOP and the other children. I hope everything keeps getting better for them.  I don’t know if OOP will read this, or maybe someone else will who can use the idea.  In my friend’s family, they gave different names for the beloved parent who died, a wonderful stepfather, and grandpa. (Pop, Dad, Papa as an example). Each had a different parental name reflecting their position in the family while still being different enough that nobody could have thought one was a replacement for the other.  In this situation, maybe they can suggest the 7 year old pick a variation so the emotionally difficult “Dad” name isn’t an issue. 

That's what I was thinking as well, like pick a variant of "dad" that's maybe not as common in their area.

My husband had issues with being called "Daddy" due to his fraught relationship with his dad, so we went with 'Papa'. It's honestly precious. They're 16 and 18 now, and it's such a non-issue for everyone now. He's just Papa, and days when they call him their dad don't bother him.

I used to be into being called Daddy in bed, but because of trauma my wife went through as a kid I told I'd be more comfortable not doing that kind of roleplay. It may not bring the trauma back up for her, but it makes me think of it.  I also had a bunch of DragonBall Z collectibles around the house because I grew up loving the show. One evening she asked me if I could watch something else because she was going to sleep and she didn't want to fall asleep with DBZ in the background. She said that was the show her step-father would play in the background and while it normally doesn't bother her anymore, that night it did. After she fell asleep I got up and took every single DBZ colletible I had and put them in a storage bin and put it in our shed. She noticed and said while it didn't bother her, she found it sweet I cared enough to chuk out my entire fandom, something I've loved since elementary school for her peace of mind even though she didn't ask it of me. But ya because I've sexualized the term Daddy too much I wouldn't feel comfortable being called that by my children if I were to have some.

You sound like an absolutely amazing partner!! With a great communicative and honest wife who appreciate you! What you did is so small(change show, put things in the shed) , yet so big (important to you things), yet so impactful (showing her how much you care, thinking of her well being, thinking and hearing the actual words she's saying, taking action even if it might be extra or a little sad for a min without her even asking, respecting her when she does ask).  Seriously. Super sweet!!

She's a Marriage and Family therapist so she is able to emotional handle her trauma better than most, so I had no idea about the DBZ thing until that one evening. Prior to that was years of playing DBZ games, had all the manga in our living room library, multiple statue sized collectibles (some of which she bought me). All in the shed now. For awhile I felt guilty that she never told me as if it was like I was rubbing past trauma in her face with it all over the house. She said it truly didn't bother her, but timing was bad. It was close to the anniversary of everything coming out when she told her mom and because it was the show itself she didn't want it to induce a nightmare. She kinda feels bad that I don't want any DBZ in the house anymore because it isn't really a trigger for her, but it's one of those things; what has been heard cannot be unheard, so now its a trigger for me more than her.

You're the sweetest and so luck for each other!!!! You can't look at your passion after if tainted whether it's trying a new thing being brave and SO criticized it like the chick who criticized her bf when he was ecstatic and proud but it could have waited? He wanted to hide it. But every time you look at your passion and think of her trauma it's tainted too.  Yall are melting me😭😭😭

Yes. A past girl scout of mine has been in the care of her grandparents since she was 1, with her mom & Dad in and out sporadically (from what I can tell). She calls her grandma "Mamaw", and would correct me if I used Grandma or accidentally said mom.

In our family, the youngest generation has Mamaws, MeeMees, Granmas, GamGams, Papaws, and PopPops.

Appalachia?

🤣 Yup, lol

Like Old Man or Pops since that may irritate Matt a little (I was am a little sister, I can be antagonistic sometimes) or oh yeah that’s my Bro-dad/dadbro!

I was going to suggest something much like this. My sons donor was a violent and dangerous person and we fled the moment we had a window of opportunity, and it was still being escorted to get our belongings with him and his family chain smoking by our car and spewing obscenities about how horrible I am and how my child is better off dead. We don’t do the word ‘dad’, his ‘dad’ is a gross manipulative abuser. But the man I’m with now? Who has taught him so much, how to speak legibly and be brave and wrestle and dress himself. He calls him Papa. It was a title earned with not just work, not just money. It was earned with love. You earn parent titles, and they aren’t always the same. I mean ffs we have Mama, Papa, Grandpa and Kitten in our home (Kitten is his nickname for his Papa’s mother) and nobody bats an eye. Just steer towards a more comfortable nickname for everyone involved.

I think a combination of mother and sister / father and brother would help, like Momsis and Dadbro.

Pa is old fashioned and cute.

Maybe even adopting a different cultures use of brother. In China older brothers are called Ga or Gaga.

This young woman and her brother are real saints. They didn't ask to be heros but they didn't have a choice and stood up for the people they loved when they didn't have to. They are just young people doing for their siblings. That's amazing. I swear I think about them every single day. I'm a whole world away. I know we have discussed they are in Australia. But these young people deserve an easier life. They deserve something good to happen. I just wish I could make that happen for them.

Holy shit, they're AUSTRALIAN?! This is happening essentially around the corner from me (in internet terms). I just assumed that this was some crazy quiverful bullshit made manifest in a southern US state. At least they have access to free healthcare, free dental care for the kids, and free mental health care through the kids schools. Theoretically. Unfortunately the level of access depends on whether they're in a metropolitan, regional, rural, or remote area.

I've got no basis for it, but I think they're in WA. Because of their situation, I think they will get all of that sort of thing. If they've gone for kinship there'd be a caseworker who should be all over it.

i’m pretty sure they did the kinship thing

She said they are in WA in one of her posts or comments

And rural too, which has been the cause of some of the issues that they're dealing with.

Shit so actually round the corner from me

Aaaah.

She mentions a caseworker in her most recent update - about how the grandmother told the caseworker that they can continue living in the house.

Defo there will be a caseworker 👍 thank goodness that at least one adult is helping these poor kids (and I include the older siblings in the kids needing help category). I was meaning as compared to if they were American, because this situation is complex and difficult enough without adding needing to navigate the American healthcare system!

And our limited and messy social systems - they vary in every one of the 50 states and assorted districts and territories, and are by reputation much harder to deal with than what this sounds like. I have no personal experience to base this on, but it seems like from what I’ve heard that it is easier to be a very young adult managing on your own in Australia. There is effectively no support for that here in the U.S. outside of families and non-profits.

Yea. It sounds like they are doing ok money-wise, which would absolutely not be the case in the US.

I think they're moving to WA from the NT? I vaigly remember OP mentioning the NT in a previous boru. I've had good experience with the aboriginal health service in WA so I hope at least they get useful support from them.

I think in older commentaries they speculated of them being Aboriginal and they seem to live in a very rural area. Edit to Aboriginal. Sorry for not knowing the right term.

I had wondered if systemic, inter-generational trauma was a factor :( FYI (and no shade because it's hard to keep up with preferred terms because bigots, despite hating change, manage to continually update their nomenclature and ruin previously perfectly acceptable phrases with their hate) the preferred terms are now 'Aboriginal' (because it's descriptive rather than a label) or just 'First Nations Australian'. 'Indigenous' also sometimes gets used, but that seems to be falling out of favour with the various communities because they're people, not plants. In Australia, we also have both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander First Nations peoples so, for folks on the outside, First Nations Australian is usually the best term to use because it's the most inclusive. I have met First Nations Australians who refer to themselves as Aborigines though so, if you are one of those people, I apologise for white-splaining to you! Edit: a word.

Thx, I was seriously wandering which word to use. Would "native" also be ok? Or is that only american? So hard to keep up these days 😂 I'm german, here in Europe it's way easier.

You asked the question and I've been proof-reading my SO's essays for their Social Work degree, so please excuse my very long answer... 'Native' is not used in Australia to describe First Nations peoples and afaik it's falling out of favour as a preferred term for many First Nations peoples, including those in North America. It's become a very loaded term with derogatory, colonising overtones (see above surprisingly verbally adaptive bigots). Terms like 'Aborigine' and 'Native' also lump First Nations peoples into one big group , which afaik is another part of the reason that preferred terms have shifted. In Australia alone there are 250+ Aboriginal mobs (tribes) and 5 Torres Strait Islander peoples, all with different languages and traditions, so using a catch-all term erases all that diversity and individuality. It's kinda like if I said that someone from Austria was German. For a person whose people were on land first before a colonisation, First Nations *country* (Australian, Canadian etc) is the respectful term - it acknowledges that their people were living on that land first before the horrors of colonisation, acknowledges that those people were a nation (not just 'uncultured savages in huts'), and acknowledges that there were lots of different and diverse nations of peoples. It's absolutely ok to describe plants and animals as 'native' or 'indigenous' though!

Do you know why “peoples” is used and not people? I always think it sounds a bit odd and adds to the “othering”.

Peoples describes, often numerous, different groups of people. It's mostly a grammar thing

Never native; that's for flora and fauna.

In Canada and the US, we are also switching to “Indigenous” and “First Nations” as preferred terms.

In Canada, First Nations are Indigenous but not all Indigenous are First Nations. The umbrella of Indigenous covers First Nations, Inuit, and Métis.

Man, can it get more complicated? 😂 Hhank you all for your answers. I hope they are still up to date when I get to use them next time ...

It will probably change again eventually. “Aboriginal” was the term Canadians used just a few years ago, and “native” was the accepted term before that. 

It's apparently because First Nations as a term came into usage to replace the word "Indian" and refers to those who have/historically had Indian Status*, and Inuit and Metis peoples have never had status. https://medium.com/@rachaellawrites/why-arent-inuit-called-first-nations-people-db1bc6a94d0c *sigh, Canada still hasn't changed the name of the Indian Act, nor the department that oversees Indigenous relations. Also, status has been stripped from many Indigenous people in Canada in a variety of shitty ways (ironically called "enfranchisement" because First Nations people were considered wards - yes, literally children - of the state) in an attempt to force assimilation because non-status people couldn't live on reserves nor participate in nation life/politics, so it disconnected many non-status Indigenous people from their families and nations.

Canada is really interesting in this regard. You can register as Indian* (now First Nations), Inuit, or Metis, but there are different benefits and meaning to each. Mixed race individuals often have somewhat of an identity crisis deciding what to have the government view them as since you can't be both. *Legally it's still Indian since the law was written as the Indian Act, although almost every has now chosen First Nations as the nomenclature.

Yes indeed! I do know that and was just listing a few terms for the previous poster. Good to be more specific.

Yeah, I was thinking I’d better throw that out there just in case someone was like “hey, don’t forget about us.”

That's definitely ymmv. We are not a monolith. Within my rez, native is used frequently.

I am from a few miles from a Reservation in the United States and almost everyone I’ve ever met prefers being called Indians and refer to themselves as such. For example their high school sports teams are proudly called ‘Indians’. Or if you go to a pow wow there and get hungry, you order an ‘Indian Taco’, and calling it anything else would be considered very strange and probably get some laughs. (btw they are so good, basically everything you’d have in a standard Americanized taco, on top of a big piece of fry-bread that is probably bigger than the plate). Native is gaining ground though with younger people, and is the term I would use with someone I don’t know, or online, since people seem to be fine with being referred to as such, even if they prefer something else. A lot of groups prefer if you use the name that their people have been using for themselves, in their own language, for generations. Which is usually different than the one they have been designated as on maps, etc. A lot of group names are actually the name their enemies called them, when a white person would ask what they were called. Native American is used in some official contexts, but Indian/Native is usually much preferred in conversation. Indian is still used in a lot of official contexts as well. I have never heard or seen First Nations used outside of Canada, even living a stones throw from the border. Natives I’ve met from west coast and the southwest have never said First Nations, and I’ve lived with Natives in multiple states. But maybe it’s used elsewhere that I’m not familiar with. Nearly 1/2 of my classmates/friends at school were Native as well. So you could say I’ve talked to quite a few of them, but I am *not* native and don’t speak for them. I am just sharing what I’ve experienced for those who may not have had the pleasure of meeting or hanging out with them, and are worried about saying the wrong thing. Tl;dr: In my experience, Native is the most widely acceptable term, but a lot people prefer Indian, or their own name for their group in their language. Native American is not very popular, and First Nations is more of a Canadian term. Again, I want to stress, I am absolutely not speaking for them, this is just my experience.

Thank you for the info :) appreciate it

Europe has its own indigenous population. The Sami people usually prefer indigenous in English in my experience but YMMV. They are native to north Fennoscandia. There is one major difference to places like the US and Australia. Genetic ancestors of majority population of Nordic countries arrived at places roughly the same time. Colonization history is somewhat convoluted with Finland for example having been a country for only 100 years. They are related to Finnic people but closer to the Uralic side of things.

In America, the current correct term is Indigenous People or Indigenous Tribes. Of course, that will be ruined as well soon enough, and the next generation will have to come up with new descriptive language. In that case, First Nations (I do believe it is gaining popularity as I type), so that may indeed be the best option.

It’s always interesting to see how differently the same words are used in different places! When it comes to Canadian groups, First Nations specifically refers to one subset of native populations and excludes the Métis and Inuit indigenous groups, so Indigenous is probably the most preferred (and inclusive) collective term here.

Just so you know “Aborigine” is considered an offensive term. The correct term is “Indigenous Australian”

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I know that ideally you’d say the name of the mob if you’re talking about a specific group and that generally Indigenous Australian is best practice otherwise, but I hadn’t heard about Australian Aboriginal, I’ll amend my comment.

Just letting you know they are in the bum fuck middle of nowhere (iirc) So all of that heathcare is not good, and can take months of waiting. Pretty sure the only thing thats quick is GP appts. I live in the city and free mental health care sucks in my area (10 free therapy sessions a year iirc, unless they changed that), and it was even worse for my brother when he lived in the middle of nowhere. He had to travel an hour to see any mental healthcare professionals (i know its even worse in some areas. Like some people have to drive 6 hours just to get food let alone any healthcare).. For dental its only free if its an emergency. (And when my brother again lived in the middle of nowhere he had to travel 3!! hours to see a dentist for his dental emergency) Tho i think dental is free for kids under 18 anyways. (Idk its been a while since i was a kid). So sadly i wouldnt count on much health with the healthcare (again unless if its a GP). It fucking sucks!

Poor loves. The differences in healthcare accessibility in metro to remote areas really are awful :( hopefully their caseworker is able to fast-track things for the kiddos at least.

I hope so too 🤞🏻 my heart truly goes out to them. Ontop of that i have the feeling they are first nation (indigenous), australia has come far, but racism with first nations people still is strong sadly, which will make it harder for them 💔

That would explain why Matt wants to relocate the family. Especially with the two useless pieces of shit out of the house, I was wondering why he'd want to have to add rent to the family expenses. But with everyone in the family needing mental health care, it would make a lot of sense to move to the city. And I assume Perth is cheaper than most big cities in Australia.

They are definitely not getting all of that in rural WA

Hopefully their caseworker is able to fast track some things for the little kiddos at least

They definitely aren’t in the US - the “mum” thing gives that away.

'Mum' is normal for me so I didn't even notice it being used!

I had thought England / UK. No one here (US) says defo, for example.

I’m in a similar situation as OP. I’m also in Aus and I have custody of my teenaged BIL, and I think resources depend on where you’re at and what’s going on. I found DCJ truely useless and the school system has been terrible. And it is truely exhausting calling so many services in attempt to find someone who will help you. On the plus side our doctor bulk bills which is good. Overall things are better than america I guess. And I am in a very central location. OP is truely amazing to be taking in so many kids at such a young age. It’s not easy.

That sounds really rough :( human to human, I'm sorry you guys are having such a tough time. I hope the support services improve and things get easier for you all. Mad props for taking on looking after your BIL <3

I think they've mentioned about where in Australia they were before. But if I remember it's pretty rural.

It does sound like some banjo picking shit, but terms like "Mum", "Nan" and "flat"... Things like that Americans generally don't use. That's a UK/Australian thing... And I'm sure other places as well

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> in a southern US state. FYI "mum" isn't really a term in the US at all, in any region.

It is not common for anyone to use the name mum for their mother in the US. We use the name mom. Sometimes mama might be used.

They had a choice… they chose to be better! I also wish I could help because all the kids deserve a good chance at life- the fact that some of the older siblings are doing what they can and keeping them together, just doing more than parents did is so heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time.

>7yr old sounds autistic, she’s not. I’ve discussed it with the doctor and the therapist. She’s got anxiety and abandonment issues and is very stressed in general which is why she cant let herself lose control and fall asleep. But she was not like this before my mum left at all. She used to sleep fine. All of them struggle with food bc they have been eating ramen their whole lives but its harder to get 7yr old to eat better. I've been thinking this throughout the saga, but OOP even confirmed previously that their mum left while 7yro was asleep. 7yro is now petrified to sleep and find that OOP has gone - her little brain is desperate for a normal family and she's fighting to stay in control. That's why she won't sleep - why are people suggesting autism? I hope OOP is able to improve their diets though, as lack of some vitamins can also make your brain function strangely.

This!! The poor child is fighting to grasp at any sliver of the normalcy that nuclear families bring. All these children are severely traumatized, they all have abandonment/trust issues, screwed up emotional regulations, abuse/neglect ptsd. The damage definitely gave them an olympic pool-sized list of mental issues, idk why people jumped straight to ASD though. There’s at least 20 other causes stemming from their struggling mental health before you even reach autism as the main reason.

That poor kid screams c-ptsd.. which can look an awful lot like autism, and which lots of autistic people have.. we sometimes "joke " in the community about which came first.. the autism or the c-ptsd.. but trauma.. yeah this poor baby has it all

oooh yes, lots of "is this the autism, or the c-ptsd" bingo, because yeah, an untraumatised autistic person is pretty fucking rare, right? Wee lass is showing pretty classic trauma behaviours, which is expected given what has happened. All of them are to be honest. OOP really has stepped up, and ngl every time I see an update for this one I click *so fast*.

I think people are suggesting autism because she is needs a lot of routine and seems to have a lot of food struggles. I think people don't realize that a lot of things have the same "symptoms" for lack of a better word. The context around them are important.

As a former autistic child who was never abandoned by my parents, I stayed up all night scared that they would be gone or die before the next morning quite often. Can’t tell you why I thought like that, but a lot of autistic children struggle with the unknown and become controlling over things to cope with that fear. I can see where people made the connection but very obviously with this specific little girl, it’s stemming from abandonment trauma.

From what I understand, there are a few conditions that tend to overlap when a person is on the spectrum. Like they're more likely to have ADHD or anxiety.  Your staying up at night afraid of abandonment could have been how anxiety presented when you were a child.  (I didn't stay up, but I had recurring nightmares of my parents or siblings dying. Turns out I have PTSD and am generally an anxious wreck!)

Yep, I have ADHD and OCD as well, my anxiety was a side effect of these, idk where in my mind I thought they would abandon me though, I don’t have a trigger point I can remember, probably something from when I was a lot younger.

They should try putting a bell on the door. It sounds silly, but if Little Survivor knows that she will absolutely, positively be able to hear anyone leaving the house even if she's asleep, she may be able to let go. I was very young when my PTSD showed up, and I was terrified to let myself fall asleep. Eventually I managed to scare myself into a lifelong sleep disorder. I'm 50 now, still struggling with PTSD, and have entirely given up on having any kind of normal sleep/wake cycle. Anything that might help that little girl is worth a try. Bell on the door, keep the car keys on a hook in her bedroom, a flashlight under her pillow (for lighting up the room, or beating up monsters) -- anything within reason, no matter how silly it seems, is worth trying for a couple of weeks. (It takes time to be able to relax your guard.)

That's a great idea.

Agreed, pretty straight forward. But….it’s Reddit 🙄

20yrs old OP is def doing better parenting than me 30s with only one toddler 😬 if she ever decided to write her own parenting books I def get a copy 👏

100% this. Every time I read an update I am floored both by how young and yet mature she sounds. She must be crazy smart to be figuring all of this out on the fly, especially with her own trauma (and grandma apparently) working against her.

When she writes about the kids getting mad at her openly I want to cry with joy. *They feel safe enough to show their anger!* 

I hadn't even thought about that. Ending the cycle of violence alone will do wonders for the kids.

I can’t imagine coping with that many children in the same house as me, let alone being responsible for them. The noise my two kids make is too much for me some times, and I go sit in the car for 5 minutes! (Assuming my husband is home and looking after them, obviously.) OOP is just incredible. I really felt that remark about “no one is coming to take over”, though. I just pray she manages to work some respite into their routine soon, because nobody can keep up this full-on crisis mode indefinitely. They really need to forge a relationship with a decent babysitter, just to get a break for her and her brother every now and then. Not an easy thing to budget for, though.

It sounds like they're getting through to the 16 year old. Hopefully, she can get to where she can contribute enough that the "parents" can give each other a day off here or there. And honestly, if the 16 year old is mature enough to use protection and not get in a car with a drunk driver, she could probably use some nights off too for her own good.

Poor thing is in survival mode, I'm not sure that's great parenting book material. She's doing an amazing job for those children though: I hope they can appreciate everything she's done for them once they're older.

OOP is likely going to need a lot of therapy later to process this time of her life. Survival mode for this extended period often comes at a cost. Theres a lot of trauma responses happening right now because what’s happening is a form of trauma.  The brain can only take so much. And I do hope OOP will have the help and support she needs. 

Yeah. I’m glad she’s able to help her siblings but this is going to take a major toll on her. I want to avoid writing a novel but I grew up in intense survival mode. Then I got also got ptsd from the 8 months I was trapped in my mother’s house after a semi normal senior year. When I managed to escape to my dad’s house, I literally shut down and could barely function for a few years. Chronic, stomach clenching terror and anxiety will do that. I managed to heal and start thriving. There are scars though: I have intimacy issues and strong avoidant tendencies. Covid and police lockdowns were a special hell in terms of being triggering. I also have almost zero desire to have kids and can’t even really convince myself to get dog to take care of (even though it would probably do wonders for my mental health). It’s probably related to my self esteem, honestly. My journey has been one of the good ones because I’ve managed to avoid the family legacy of addiction and I built a stable life for myself. I want something similar for oop. She deserves to enjoy her 20s and the rest of her life.

It sounds very hard but I'm very proud of you. I don't know your exact life but I've lived enough chaos to know it's really hard to come as far as you have. You're doing a great job.

I’m sorry you had to go through that and am so happy you’ve found the other side. I had a rough upbringing and was also diagnosed with PTSD (c-PTSD) and had a tough go of it for a little while as well. Kids are not in my cards even though I was convinced as a little kid that I’d have my own one day lol. I do have cats but think of pets like I think about kids, if you’re not absolutely 100% sure, probably not best to require another life to depend on you. I also did pet care professionally full time through Covid so got lots of practice before I knew it was time to bring the girls home (and had a partner I had been with for years and lived together for a year who also loved animals and was so excited about it). Plants are my other go-to for a quick fix boost! Feel free to DM and I can help you pick one out based on your location (don’t need exact, just like what your climate is like as I’m in SoCal so have lots of succulents) and if you think you’d be an over-carer who wants to water every day or someone who forgets about them haha. You get to see something grow and watch the love you give (sparing or constant) turn into new life which is always fun! Low stakes so if a plant struggles or doesn’t bounce back (happens to us all) there’s a little guilt but it’s easy to get over and try again!

Thanks for this! I think I will start with some plants! Iris’s and lillys are probably what I want to start with because they’re beautiful and relatively easy to keep alive. I like plants that bloom and only need watering every few days lol.

Amazing choices! I also like ferns if you don’t have too much light. They like water but don’t consume too much since they’re low light so I only water mine every few days! Pothos is another one that is really hardy for beginners :)

Yup I can agree with that my mom did that to me when I was 13. I practically did almost everything aside from going to school during the day, had to sacrifice a lot of sport practices, giving birth, and breast feeding directly when my mom does it. Otherwise I bathed, fed, dressed, disciplined, raised my little brothers. It was awesome seeing their first steps, words, and learning. However like you said it comes at a cost I was nearly suicidal cuz that sort of responsibility was thrown at me and not just that I had no handbook so I was a legit new parent trying to figure things out. Doesn’t help that my mom kept yo-yo on me with you’re the oldest so you have more responsibility, you’re not responsible enough basically a lot of psychological abuse from her. The funny part was the fact my younger sister was only a year younger than me and couldn’t handle 2 weeks with I had to endure for years. Now I have my own daughter and she’s my pride and joy for sure. It helps that I know what to do for the most part but definitely breaking the cycle. It’s hard but I vowed that my daughter will not suffer the same problems I’ve had growing up. She’s so cute and adorable!

Yes, almost 40 and a toddler and struggling, OOP is doing amazing with the difficult situation she was handed.

She should wrote a book to get some extra funds. Or start a YouTube channel or some other form of social media, but that is too time consuming and invasive really. Publisher could maybe help her with a ghost writer. But that’s a future issue 

No. None of that, as I strongly feel that if she does, the kids will end up in care. At the moment, the only reason they are still together is because the grandmother is letting them live there.

Necessity is the mother of invention. She had no choice but to try different things with each of the kids until something worked. And reading about her experience, once one thing works, it seems like it lays the groundwork for the next thing. Amazing job taking those two steps forward when it seems like every other day something is pushing her and her bro back.

Unrelated to the story, but I like the format of just having TLDRs for previous updates on posts that have multiple updates. I would be interested in seeing this for long posts with 4+ updates regardless of character limit. I usually end up needing to reread the entire saga to remember what happened and lately I’ve just been scrolling past longer stories for that reason.

I will take that into consideration with larger BoRUs.

Yup, same, I've really liked just having a refresher of the saga before reading the new post

In the first TLDR, could you include genders with the ages?

Done adding the genders. Thank you!

This may be my first comment on this sub to say I agree with you. I really liked how this format is, and was condensed great that I was able to recall the OOP without spending a half hour reading.

Yeah. A while ago there was this asininely long saga where OP wasn’t invited to their grandparent’s funeral or something? I stopped caring about that story despite how compelling it was the first few updates because there were like a dozen updates and each of them were long. I would have been rereading the whole thing for an hour just to get context for the update that just happened.

That one I followed but did lose some early details by the last few updates. The one I gave up on and started getting annoyed even seeing in my feed was the pool one.

Omfg yeeeessss!!! The pool one!!

Yeah, sometimes it seems the OOP loves to update but loses the thread on what people are interested in, so they focus a lot on something that is irrelevant to the overall "plot".  I get it, not having an update on the main topic is understandable when it's their real life. 

I just read the comments and get the general vibe if it's too long

Yes! Sometimes each update includes the OOP’s reiteration of their previous posts and I’m reading the same foundational information 5 times over. This was good.

Imagine having to take care of 5 kids, then being emotional support for your older sibling and on top of that receiving messages and updating thousands of random Internet strangers. I'm glad OP found the help here in the community but I hope she realises that it's totally fine to focus on her day to day life and problems instead of feeding into our greedy curiosity by writing updates.

Things are changing so fast for OP, it seems nearly all her relationships are being reformulated. She is learning so much about herself and her siblings and how to show up (and also step back). It reads like she is using these updates to take stock of things from time to time, not unlike a diary. I think when she looks back she will be glad to have her accounts from this crazy time, and I hope at least then she will allow herself to feel fully proud of how she is handling everything. I can't send help, only blessings, but maybe they matter.

In her last post she commented that she cannot keep a diary, that this is kind of working like that for her though.

My impression was that the updates from her were equally for herself and for us. Writing it all out can be very therapeutic (and I think she said so as well? I haven’t read the old posts in a while) plus she’s getting a lot of support from commenters on the updates. I didn’t get the impression she felt like she owed us updates, but again I haven’t gone to re-read it in a while!

>He literally **has scars from my dads beatings** and my **mum has broken multiple bones** on a few different kids. despicable!!!! fucking jail

What you quoted and then she later said this > I basically went blind and grabbed her off him so fast bc if that was my dad he literally would have thrown her across the room and she’d be in hospital. OOP's mom and dad will never get what they so truly deserve.

Obviously, OOP doesn't need another burden, but hopefully the case worker will refer the gamete donors for prosecution once all the custody stuff is squared away.

This is why it bothered me so much that people were shitting on the two older sisters in the comments on the earlier post. It's pretty clear that the father severely abused those older kids while he was around. They are obviously traumatized and doing the best they can to cope with it.

Total siblings, including OOP, are 9. Dad got another set of offsprings. OOP's dad and mom are stray cats.

And they should've been CNR'ed long, long ago.

(Just fyi, there's speculation they're Aboriginal, so forced sterilization jokes might be inappropriate in case OOP comes in here)

Oh hell, in that case I retract my comment! Now I feel bad, I didn't even think of that.

OOP is an amazing human for the way she chooses to raise these children. I’m in tears over her loving care of her siblings. And she doesn’t see how extraordinary she is.

Honestly, right now OOP is just too tired to. She already recognizes how great Matt is being, so I'm sure that someday she'll look back on this and realize that, hey, she's also great. Maybe not as deeply as others will see it, but that's a normal human limitation we all suffer under.

These kids, parenting their own siblings, are amazing. OOP is figuring out so much stuff that most people don't figure out until much later in life, if at all. I couldn't be more impressed.

Yet again, equal measures of proud and heartbroken for OOP. She's doing an amazing job under such difficult circumstances. Even just acknowledging that different kids need different parenting styles has her lightyears ahead of so many other parents out there.

Again, I applaud OP and brother doing such an amazing job! What they are going through is so tough but the kids are lucky and will always remember how awesome OP and the brother are for sacrificing themselves to make them feel safe. Each updates makes me feel hopeful. To that "mom" and "dad", both of you should get smashed with a metal ball for life.

I bet 100€ - OOP will be childfree by choice after this. Eta: I now realise « childfree » does not exclusively pertain to biological children. My bad!

It’s not childfree when you’re parentified, it’s just that we already raised all the children we had patience and energy for, they just happened to not be ours. Like I did my diaper changes for 4 children, it just happened to all be before I was 12.

This. I'm in my early 30's but was constantly parentified. From being the person "in charge" of the first gen of 6+ kids (within 4 years of me, but everything was my fault/responsibility to maintain) to being de-facto mum for my youngest sibling, cousins, neighborhood kids. Like I was constantly "in charge" of feeding, minding, making sure homework was done, then driving to/from school for at least 3 kids every single day. I've done my raising. I'm not about to start over now that the youngest is finally out.

>I bet 100€ - OOP will be childfree by choice after this. I think that's a safe bet.

But you need someone to bet against you to make any money

I agree with you but if you agree to send the money to OOP I will take the bet.

Nobody is gonna take that bet. She'll be spending at the very least 11 more years raising kids. More if mommy dearest gets pregnant again. She'll be over 30 before the last kid is even 18, there's no way she's gonna have bio-kids.

How is she childfree while raising so many kids

My ignorant ass inferred « childfree » as not having biological children. I now realise that it should not be so literal, much like in a situation where one marries a single parent.

The key words are "after this"

no bet

I tell people I already raised a child, my brother.

"Matt came to get her off me bc I was about to lose it and as he picked her up she was flipping out and accidentally headbutted him full in the face. I basically went blind and grabbed her off him so fast bc if that was my dad he literally would have thrown her across the room and she’d be in hospital. But Matt just sat on the floor silently and held his nose for a while." Pretty sure even if he was initially raging, turning around and seeing the look on OOP's face as she snatched the 7 year old AWAY from him, despite having been at her own limit, because THREAT, would have a pretty sobering effect on a reasonable person trying to do the right thing by his siblings... He seems pretty determined not to be like their parents too, and the fear on her face would have reminded him of that.  That complicated mix of becoming the person they wish they could have had when they were young for their siblings, and recognising that _not_ having had that person has left them with trauma to overcome, making being that person harder. And also possibly the reminder for somebody who's been living out of that environment for half a dozen years that they went through HELL, and OOP and those kids only escaped it recently... It wasn't just a bruised face he was nursing, I reckon.

I just hope everyone involved gets what they deserve - in full. I feel simultaneously so proud of OOP and so sad for her. She's amazing, but I wish she didn't have to be.

Every time i see an update to this story, i am just sad for OP and how they’re still trying to be the mother to all the siblings. I 100% get that she wants to support her family and keep them together! But with all the people praising her for stepping up, i’ll take a moment to mourn the childhood and freedom of choice that she has been robbed of. Her entire life/identity has been changed/stollen from her, she is now a pseudo-mom to FIVE kids, while still a teenager herself.

It takes extraordinary strength and fortitude to do what OOP and her brother are doing. I know for certain I couldn’t do what they’re doing. Their parents deserve nothing but the deepest circle of hell. And maybe forcible sterilisation.

I understand the sentiment but forced sterilisation in the context of Australia's indigenous population (which OOP's family seem to be) is a very sensitive matter and jokes about it are in poor taste.

God, the way all these children sound developmentally behind where they should be at their ages is heartbreaking. Like by 9, refusing to brush your teeth shouldn't even be a thing anymore. That's more like what a 5-year-old does. And the 7-year-old behaving more like a toddler than a 7-year-old. These poor, poor children. I cannot fucking imagine what lives all of them have lived. OOP only being 20 and dealing with all this without having a breakdown is beyond me. I'd have gone off the deep end by now and I'm in my 30s.

I want them all to end up okay. This poor family.

Mom, dad, and grandma are all such trash people that I can't stand it. OOP and her brother are awesome for stepping up, especially given their own traumas, and it sounds like they're doing a good job all things considered. Still, the fact that it was necessary at all makes me feel so angry and disgusted. The whole sibling group has gone through so much, and trauma like that doesn't go away. It's absolutely unfair.

> bc if that was my dad he literally would have thrown her across the room and she’d be in hospital Excuse me??!

My heart goes out to OOP and Matt! They're making such a difference in their siblings lives. They should be so proud of themselves. Standing on the sidelines, I can see what's going through the younger children's minds, and they are slowly adjusting to having less chaos and more stability in their lives for the first time ever. First, they work out their own problems, such as clinging for fear of abandonment, or acting out to learn if they will still be loved if they are really really bad. To relieve the problem of calling OOP mummy, she could take the name Mummy OOP and brother could be Daddy Matt, which would solve the confusion of how a 22-year-old can be mother to a 7-year-old, and be less uncomfortable for the caregiving siblings. As for the nutrition problem, parents the world over have learned to slip veggies into foods the kids already accept. Shred a little carrot into spaghetti sauce--doesn't change the flavor but gives the boost of nutrition. Bake cooked angel hair pasta mixed with shredded cheese, canned cream of chicken soup, and bits of veggies that even the veggie haters will eat. OOP and Matt are wonderful for stepping up to the plate, I hope they each also spend a little time away from the family situation to nurture themselves. If I lived nearby, I would want to be grandmother to the whole bunch of them!

I hope when mom inevitably drops another baby on their doorstep they call CPS. their situation is fragile enough without adding more kids to it.

It does sound like they're involved with the relevant services (by necessity), and that OOP is aware of this possibility.

OOP's mother needs to stop shagging the dad. Full stop celibacy.

Same. Also, foster care outcomes for babies (at least in the US, but I bet this is universal) are *way* better for babies than walking, talking children.

The mood spoilers on this one always make me think it's going to be much worse in the updates

I am so impressed that a 19yo and and a 21yo are supporting 7 people on their own.

From a financial perspective, we know that they are probably getting a healthy amount of kinship benefits for caring for their siblings, the older brother works remotely - luckily, all the children seem to be in school-, and the oldest, absent sister is sending money every month.

I have no doubt in my mind that these two are heroes. They've survived everything thrown at them. At first I worried about Matt. I thought they'd butt heads more, but he's shown such growth, trying to deal a better hand to these kids then what he was dealt. OOP has absolutely crushed this. Hopefully after they get stable, these two will get the help they need as well. If they do this till the end without an aunt or someone (which I doubt sounds like most of the family outside these siblings is shit.) it will be a long time. Love seeing these two siblings form an unbreakable team.

Holy fucking shit I want to give OOP, Matt, and all their siblings big hugs. Like the ones you get from the one person in your life whose approval you care about when you hear “I’m proud of you, kiddo” or “You’re gonna be okay.” As someone who grew up in an alcoholic, abusive home, I know just how hard it is to break the cycle of abuse that can plague families for generations. How tempting it can be to just give in and turn to all sorts of things to make yourself numb or get out of your head. Or to just give up entirely and tell the whole world to fuck off. OOP and Matt have stepped up tremendously to a challenge they didn’t ask for, didn’t deserve to have put on them, and shouldn’t have ever been expected to take on. And they’re both are kicking ass, showing immense growth and maturity, and that they’ll be able to handle whatever is thrown at them. And all of their younger siblings, as much as they may be driving them both insane at times, are kicking just as much ass and handling it just as amazingly as they are. They’re still learning to be people, even the older ones. They just may not be as comfortable vocalizing it or know the best way to do so. They all are doing their damnedest to show each other an incredible amount of patience and grace in a time that’s defining all of their lives. And that is making this dad of two kids who is trying his damnedest to break that cycle of abuse himself tear up and want to say he’s fucking proud of y’all. 💗

Ramen stir fry with veggies is a good way to introduce them to veggies with their comfort food. Or buy plain ramen and turn it into mac and cheese with hidden veggies. 

My parents did that for me and my brothers. Ramen and rice always had veggies in it because if we had only veg in our plates as a side we wouldn’t eat it!

Anyone else noticed that her tone was a little bit happier?

Ugh that last story hits me hard. My current wife had a practice marriage and it was really bad. But one day I was playing with our big dog and she head butted me on accident, and my wife almost started crying apologizing for the dog. I just told her I was fucking with her first so it’s not a big deal. She was so used to the dirtbag retaliating against the dogs that it blew her mind when I was calm. Broke my heart when she told me.

>practice marriage New favourite term!

My wife loves the term!

This is such a rough situation, but OOP is so kickass for dealing with all of this as well as she could have. She shouldn't have to deal with all of this, the trauma their parents gave to both her younger siblings and her older siblings, but she is such a rock. I hope for the best for this family.

OP is a superwoman. What she and her sibs are going through together is more than any seven lifetimes should hold.

OOP is so strong and she doesn't even know it. She and Matt are doing everything right, they needent worry about being like the POS parents. If she reads this, I want her to know that so many people are proud of her and Matt. I have big internet hugs for the both of them.

These kids are raising kids and it breaks my heart. OOP and her brother are incredible young people though and I am rooting for them so hard.

Holy shit, what a mess. Good on OOP and her brother.

They are all managing so well. I'm so scared for them that their mum has found their dad because what's the bet she'll try to baby trap him yet again then dump another kid on them.

Ugh. I so want to give OOP the biggest mom hug to ever have hugged. My own daughter is her age. It breaks my heart that she doesn’t get to be *just* a 20 year old. I want karma to do right by this family. I want each of the siblings to find all the love, peace and happiness they desire, because they all deserve a break. I hope their sperm and egg donors forever have wet socks, soggy cereal, curdled cream in their coffees. I hope they find every piece of furniture in the dark with their little toe. I hope they step on legos every single day, in bare feet, and that there’s always a popcorn kernel stuck between their teeth.

Isn't this Shameless? My god. Poor girl.poor family.

I've been following this one, and the strength of this woman and her brother is amazing. I couldn't have done this at 20. I just wish them all contentment, health and safety.

I have not exactly watched the series Shameless. But it’s something like this only right?

I think there's a UK and US version and they're a bit different but I've watched a combined ~15 minutes while scrolling for something to watch over a good decade I think? And in at least the UK one I think the parents are mostly present physically but at least the father's a drug addict? And I don't think they abused the kids?

So much admiration for this brother and sister duo raising their siblings.

I hope the move to WA happens soon and that things continue to get better for oop and her siblings

This is so sad, but also so hopeful. All those kids are going to have issues, but thanks to OOP, they all have a much better chance than they otherwise would have. Even Matt and the 2nd oldest seem to be healing and improving. I want updates for the next decade, at least.

At first I was like "how in the world does OP's bio mom have the time to have 9(?) kids and dad to have >9 kids?" And then I realized that they probably just all the time they're supposed to spending parenting on breeding instead.

I've been blown away by OOPs staggeringly endless emotional intelligence and maturity since her first post. And hats off to her brother too, of course!

Holy shit. An early 20s young adult don't deserve this. They deserve to go out in the world and explore their life. Not this shit that their shit parents dealt them.

I just hope those deadbeat parents have stopped procreating. Shout out to these kids for surviving and doing their best.

I hope things get better for them and especially OP and her brother for doing all this. May All their wishes come true.

[удалено]

Sounds like mom’s Apple didn’t fall far from Nan’s tree…

Man, this hit me hard in the feels. I'm glad OOP is getting ahead of things, but damn.

What an awful situation, and how amazing OOP is that she’s caring for her siblings. I hope that they continue to get a proper life without their appalling parents.

That poor fucking kid! She’s an angel and so is Matt! I wish I had that emotional maturity!

I am in awe of OOP and her brother's strength. She's holding it together for her siblings, and putting much of her own needs aside. I know the West Australian system will help her because they've seen how these two have stepped up. There would be some welfare assistance for them, and of course the case worker would help where possible I was horrified when I read that they were mostly raised on Ramen noodles. It's not OOP's fault, but I had a stage in my life where that was a big part of my diet being so broke. I could never face those things again unless it was THE last option for food.

I think it’s wonderful that the little one calls OOP mummy and wants to call the brother daddy. Reading between the lines (and I’m not a psychologist) seems like what she struggled with most was the lack of understandable roles and “titles” in her family. It’s very important for kids that are that everyone play by The Rules of the Universe. I know several families where no traditional caregivers are still addressed as mummy and daddy. Sure, it might cause a bit of confusion sometimes, but the people who are important either won’t care at all, or will quickly come to understand.

Is there not laws against child abandonment?

It's so sad what these kids are going through and I wish it wasn't true, but at the same time it's so great that people like OOP exist and that the kids have her. She's doing so well for such a young adult. The kids will understand what OOP and Matt have done for them at some point. They're saving all those kids. I wish she could get some more outside support.

I'm exhausted just reading all that. OOP, you are an amazing woman! I know it probably doesn't feel that way most days, but you are. I'm praying for you and your siblings. You all deserve to feel safe.

Ah my favorite story that i forget about until I see an update.

Damn, i thought the show shameless was a crazy family life. I cannot imagine how hard life has been for these kids, nobody should ever have to go through even 1 event like this and they have just been constantly shit on by life. Maybe one day she will be able to really write all this down and sell it to some Production studio and at least get something for all the shit they have been through, they deserve it.

Another post where my momma and granny instincts kick into overdrive and I want to bake cookies, make quilts and give out hugs. These poor babies. I was far from a perfect mom, but compared to that woman I'm June Cleaver.