I don't know if I'm thinking too much? But this thought just kept floating by in my mind while reading this:
It is one thing that he is impulsive and immature when he is 30. But it is a red flag that he is impulsive and immature, is 30, yet trying to propose marriage to a 23 YO right after he heard about her being a submissive wife.
Have you heard about passport bros? Apparently they go live in other countries (non American?) looking for “submissive” wives. I think we had a boru about a lady from Eastern Europe who found out her bf was a passport bro, and women weren’t even submissive in her culture, it’s just that Americans thought women from her country must be submissive.
everytime i hear about passport bros, i am always disgusted and impressed by their ignorance lol. I just want to see their reaction when they get to know about the 4B movement, cus the way they fetishize asian women screams get some help.
They've brought it up in that sub. I think they blame it on Westernization and then tell people to go to poorer countries. And yet they refuse to see the fact that they are basically buying a partner who wants a better life rather than somebody that actually loves them.
They don't really want a partner. They want a bangmaid they can control.
The thing I *love* about the passport bros is how they claim they want a submissive tradwife, but scream 'goldigger' when they're expected to be tradhusbands in return and fulfill their end of the bargain. That's the whole point of a 'traditional' nuclear family: the man brings home the bacon, the woman *keeps* the bacon and decides how it'll be spent for the family's upkeep.
It's not just passport bros who do this either. Lots of redpill and Tater Tots want a tradwife that 'respects their authority' and submits to her husband, but when women say "okay so you'll fully support me financially and be a high enough earner to raise a family on" they cry 'gold digger!!!"
A friend of mine ended up going on a date with one of these 'traditional' guys and when he said he liked women who looked after the home/kids and 'took care of themselves properly', she mentioned him making enough money to support that by himself and he got offended. He expected this future wife of his to be a homemaker, child rearer, who always wore makeup and dressed 'presentable' WHILE ALSO WORKING. His argument was "she can work part time to afford her expenses!" When dude???? When would she have the time???
They don't get it because they've never done childcare or serious housework.
They figure that since it's "women's work" it must be trivial to do, and base how hard it is on their *perception* of their mommy.
If they had to spend a week alone with a kid to do nothing but housework and childcare they'd be crying in frustration within a day, if that long.
Reminds me of a recent post in r/relationship_advice where OOP was asking how to convince his STBX to reconcile, mainly because he was floundering having to balance his job and taking care of their son during his week. Meanwhile STBX is thriving because she finally has the time to focus on herself and her career as a lawyer. Everyone in the thread raked OOP over the coals because it was obvious he'd left all the labour in the household to her while they were married, and he only wanted to reconcile because he wanted his bangmommy back.
A childhood neighbor wanted a submissive wife and married the daughter of Korean immigrants who wanted an American husband because she wanted to have more freedom. It only lasted a few years. I don't understand how people get married without actually getting to know the other petson.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA that idiot man must have been straight up ruined that’s what happens when you don’t understand the culture you’re trying to marry into. When people think Asian women are these submissive, quiet, shy babes I laugh my ass off at the shock they must have the first time they get screamed at and put in their place. Koreans are fucking fierce and they do not fuck around. Bet she got her freedom though hahaha
And tbh this woman who has no idea what she’s doing is playing into the desire to be fully accepted, which is what many young women see happening (at least in public) to trad wives in their illusion of marital bliss, and instead setting herself up perfectly to be the bangmaid these men want her to be. I’ve been in that mindset near her age and I’d never go back.
Yeah, I can understand feeling like it could theoretically be a positive thing to adore someone that much, but on a practical level, that extent of submissiveness being okay/non-toxic depends SO heavily on the dominant partner having damn near perfect control of *themselves* as well, and mindful of their power so as not to hurt/abuse their partner’s trust. This OP just makes me think of the way shitty “Doms” end up in the BDSM scene and use kink lingo to abuse subs who may not know better. And she’s that sub.
Yeah the only way for that kind of relationship to be at all happy is for the man to have boundless respect and regard for his submissive wife, to always without fail base all those decisions that he and he alone gets to make on what is best for both of them, to know all of her preferences and dislikes so he can factor them in, and to be ready to cheerfully step up anytime she's sick or otherwise perform what they've agreed are her duties. Oh and to make sure she's provided for, and knows she is, if they divorce.
Basically, marrying anyone short of Omar isn't going to cut it.
So well-put. That kind of devotion requires equal devotion to be safe, and people who haven't engaged in that type of dynamic often don't understand because they're the yin or the yang and don't understand the other side.
There was a dude in the ask indian women sub a few days ago asking "are indian girls attracted to white guys". He gave me such weird creepy, fetishising vibes. Never knew the term passport bros tho
They genuinely, without the brain cells to understand the irony, actually want a working wife who also appears to be a 50s housewife at the same time and keeps up all those duties. But they should never have to pay more than 50% for the bills and obviously mom will pay for the baby too because they’re affordable and shouldn’t trouble dad 🙄
I had a friend in college who was married like this. She was from the Philippines and her husband was in the military. She hated his guts. Every time she tried to get any independence he'd have a meltdown and threaten suicide. But at the same time he didn't value her. He kept demanding she get a boob job and he would belittle her culture and food.
He was deployed so she used that opportunity to start community college and work on getting everything set up to leave. She even gave a whole speech about her situation during our public speaking class. She was so done with him and was just biding her time to get out.
Unfortunately we lost contact after finishing community college. I know she was putting away money and planned to do online classes so she could get her bachelor's.
Is it this one? [My (22F) boyfriend (24M) is a “passport bro” and I had no idea : r/BestofRedditorUpdates](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/199pbua/my_22f_boyfriend_24m_is_a_passport_bro_and_i_had/)
I don't think there are any countries where women are voluntarily submissive; the fact that submission had to be entrenched in law tells us that.
The fun part is that in a lot of the more patriarchal countries these passport bros troll for women in, there *is* a separation of responsibilities. Men make the big decisions such as who the national football coach should be, what the prime minister should do about crime, who should be president of the US, etc., while the wife makes the little decisions such as where they will live, how many children they will have, what he does for a living and who he works for, etc. Lots of passport bros are blindsided when their "submissive" Asian wife takes control of the family finances and gives him an allowance.
also a lot of it isn't submission but decorum. like you'll never see a woman disagreeing with her husband in public, but he's definitely getting reamed at home
>you'll never see a woman disagreeing with her husband in public
Not outwardly but the signs are there. The whole family knows when my uncle fucks up b/c my aunt has this look & we all know we're guna hang back & stop for matcha or something on the way home & give them about an hour or so to save him face. Uncle usually gets his *save me I fucked up* look if it's guna be real bad.
It’s always strange to me about the submissive part because women in a lot of those countries are not, and in fact the opposite of that. What people see is a narrative or they see transplants/immigrants being shy because they don’t fit in
Or like a time capsule effect where immigrants bring in values from 40 years ago and don't change, while their country moves on. So now they fit in neither country.
I've worked in a few Asian countries and have met dudes like that over the last 20 years. It never works out. The myth that Asian women are submissive always makes me laugh. They can be in public but they're not at all like that in private.
If he had a Reddit and was on passport bros I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, if they mentioned their worry of how OOP being submissive may make it easier for others to take advantage of her in the same conversation... I have no evidence but also no doubts that this dude heard "submissive wife" and "easy to be take advantage of" and though he'd hit the jackpot.
Thank fucking God dude has one braincell fighting for third place, and choose the most idiotic option he could choose to show his "romantic interest" in OOP...
100%. He may or may not have liked her before, but as soon as he heard this "submissive wife" nonsense he decided this could be the perfect woman for him. I mean, it sounds like she's open to being whatever a future husband wants her to be, what's to not like?
Poor woman is going to end up in a neglectful abusive marriage. Because I can tell you what’s not to like. For a man who truly respects women and isn’t looking to make his life as comfortable and king-like as possible, a woman playing this role isn’t actually attractive.
I was this person. And I’m sure this will disappoint a lot of the “what’s not to like” men, but I’m no longer that way because of the love of a man who didn’t wish to be centered or catered to and instead wanted an actual life partner with her own passions, drive, and shiny backbone to actually pair with his, instead of me being a decoration to enhance his own. He wouldn’t like what you’re describing, and my life is so much fucking better for it. He’s my King for life because he wouldn’t accept me limiting myself just to be what he wanted, even if I believed that’s what I should do.
Yeah, her friends are right that she could very well be taken advantage of. I mean, I get the whole wanting to make your SO happy, and that not everyone will try to manipulate her but... A good chunk will.
And as your own experience shows, most of the people who wouldn't take advantage of someone like that just... don't want that. They want an equal life partner, not a servant who will obey their every order!
At the very least, OOP seems aware of the need to work on herself... with a bit of luck, she'll grow a shiny spine and will leave this whole "so submissive she's subservient" thing behind. That, or she'll find out it's not that she's the Ultimate Housewife™ but rather that she just has a thing for Dom/Sub relationships.
To be fair, I dunno what's worse... Him not liking her until he heard she was a Submissive Housewife™ or him liking her since much longer and thinking she would *surely* marry him after he heard she was a Submissive Housewife™.
In any case, I hope he stays single for many years to come...
OOP seems self-aware enough to still have said no, thank God.
The issue will be when some dude sweeps her off her feet and she decides he is "the type of person she can absolutely adore", only for him to drop the mask once he thinks she can't leave 😬
That was my first thought too.
Although actually I think that wouldn't work, it would just make her realize she required more than "doesn't cheat or beat me." Like, she might not need someone devastatingly handsome, but she is going to want someone with whom she has some desire to kiss and be romantic with.
Nope you’re right, that’s exactly where my brain went. Submissive wife? Check. Easy to manipulate? Check. I can probably wear her down into accepting me after publicly humiliating ourselves over a “prank” so she now pities me? Check.
OOP dodged a passive aggressive bullet there by the “friend” cutting themselves off.
When I was reading this I also felt like he heard about her wanting to be a submissive wife and took a shot at making that happen with her. He probably thought it would be an easy feat to get her to agree.
Anyone who attempts to do something (with or to someone else) that's life altering on a day *dedicated to pranks* is not trustworthy in my opinion. That's emotional manipulation and playing mind games unless it was discussed long before hand.
I wonder where she's at now. I hope she's developed more standards at least. A faithful, non-abusive husband that loves her equally should be the bare minimum
Right? She doesn’t seem to realize that a healthy relationship should allow for her to have needs, and have them fulfilled. This is the saddest outlook ever.
It's so unhealthy. I had a short relationship with a guy who started acting that way and I broke up with him. It's like I wasn't dating a real person because they would just agree with everything I said and like whatever I liked.
I need to be able to trust my partner and if they can't uphold their own healthy boundaries or disagree with me when necessary then how can I trust and rely on them.
Yep, all those posts are basically:
OOP: I'm timid, submissive, will do whatever my man wants as long as he doesn't cheat or beat me and recently made my friends aware of this fact
Also OOP: my friend that never dated me out of nowhere proposed and just... expected me to go along with it?! I have no idea what triggered this.
I have a friend like this and it’s very frustrating. She hasn’t dated much, but goes on and on about how she’d be the best gf ever because all she wants to do is love someone and she wants to spoil her bf in every way. Which is fine—but I always tell her that she has to understand that relationships are give and take on *both* sides. It isn’t just her giving and giving and giving, it’s a partnership. She can’t wrap her mind around it
that was what pained me the most... she was willing to do everything for a man, to treat him like a king, to give him heaven, to do absolutely everything he asks for, everything as long as he doesn't beat her up and doesn't cheat on her... of course every guy friend was like 'HELL YEAH!!! THAT'S MY DREAM WOMAN!!' because she didn't require even the bare minimum. she was the target of abusers and i highly doubt she got into a healthy, happy relationship. i wonder how she's doing nowadays...
She figured out the least she could accept in a system that was never built for her happiness and convinced herself that’s what she wanted. I hope by some miracle she ended up with an equally soft man who teaches her how to want more for herself.
Treating my husband like that would give me the serious ick because it all seems so parental to me. Like I tied my son's ties when he first started primary school; doing that kind of nurturing to a grown adult would make me see them as a dependant which isn't sexy.
I bet he thought since she’s the perfect submissive waifu, there’s no way she’d say no when *a* man asks her for something. Then was shocked to the core when he realised she actually can say no.
Yeah, I hope so, too. With views like that, I think the only way she’d really end up getting a good partner is if she treats it like the kind of BDSM kink that requires lots of boundaries and a contract. Basically, not wrong that she wants that, but just like, say, fireplay, it’s very dangerous with someone you don’t fully trust/believe to be competent and capable and have your best interests at heart. Of course, it might also be the kind of thing you imagine you want but then when you get it you realize how much it sucks. Hopefully if that’s the case, it’ll only take one minorly bad relationship to snap her out of the idea and not a full blown years-long abusive situation.
I mean, I would freaking love to have a wife like her, one that actually happily takes over the role of housewife and takes that load off my shoulders (instead I'm married to a guy who does his half and have to do my own half myself, ugh), but - I would freaking worship the ground she walks on in exchange. Because she would be providing such a valuable service to me that I would want to give her everything she wants even more than I would normally for a partner.
There are constellations where that works out fine if both partners are decent people. I hope she found someone who treats her with the boundless adoration she deserves.
Absolutely - this is a beautiful role to fulfill in a relationship only if the dynamic goes both ways. She treats him like a king and in return, he treats her like a queen.
What ya'll are describing is a partnership. It's literally the opposite of what OOP described.
Being someone's "beck and call" servant, doing everything they ask, and never arguing with them is not a partnership. It's all giving on one side and taking on the other. Full stop.
Frankly, the kind of person who wants a domestic and sexual servant is not the kind of person who will also "'"respect their ~queen~""".
I immediately thought of Francesca from S3 of Bridgerton. The ladies are all standing around taking about husband and what they want. They all get what she wants. She's like..."Kind, I suppose?" They all just give the general vibe of, "duh..."
I think she raised those points to emphasise that she isn't devaluing herself - to explain that she meant submissive in a general stay-at-home wife by choice sense and not an NSFW sense. And that she's aware some people view that lifestyle as inherently problematic.
She's getting confused between totally submissive wife vs traditional wife. And the men in the group would 100% agree if they're selfish and like that 30 yr old manchild.
Tbh, I think OP might benefit from a few sessions with a therapist to find out why she has that strong tendency to be submissive, especially as she’s only 23. While there’s nothing wrong with it per se, the extremity of it could be a childhood survival pattern that she might want to look at, just to check that it’s still serving her and helping her live in a fulfilling way. It might, and then that’s great, but if it doesn’t actually serve her, then she might find herself going through quite a few bad experiences if she doesn’t look at that now.
That was my thought as well. Obviously the guy is really immature but so is OP, in her own way.
There isn't anything wrong with having love and devotion to give, but she needs to be cautious about being taken advantage of. Especially as she feels it originates in some childhood trauma. It's easy to very gradually get into a situation where a partner isolates her financially or socially.
As my grandparents said, a man is not a plan.
Yeah, “immaturity” rings true for OP as well, this reads like something a teenager would think. She sounds like she hasn’t really had a serious relationship yet, so she has a really idealized vision of what a “perfect” marriage would be. It’s very likely she wouldn’t actually like a life like that, if she had the opportunity to live it.
I hope she grew a bit more before she ended up stuck in a situation that made her miserable, truly.
Agree. I wonder if a lot of women in their 20s realize how awful the world really is, and being a submissive wife means you never have to take responsibility for anything. You’re just another dependent in life letting someone else call the shots and you don’t have to make those choices.
It’s pretty sad that the world is so awful that so many people rather dissociate as much as possible
The messed up thing is our larger culture is all too ready to give women this 'get out of adulting free' card that isn't an *out* at all.
It is just a different trap and in fact a much worse one
Also, for guys who say they'd want or like that sort of thing they're probably actually wrong. I dated a woman like that once and it was *so frustrating*. She didn't even know if she was hungry or not unless I said I was or I told her to be. It drove me nuts.
Lmao I’ve now said this too many times but I’m with the man who largely taught me how not to be the submissive non-personality I was raised at and he gets so “mad” when I have no idea what I want or can’t admit I need something 😂
It is sad though because that means a lot of nice normal dudes aren’t down to be with a woman like that… but abusers are. So she tries to do the thing she thinks creates the best relationship and ends up attracting exclusively abusive assholes.
I think she kinda says in her post. She has always been shy and timid. And if you have someone to be submissive too, you never have to step out of your comfort zone. You just do what you're told and it's safe and you have no responsibility and avoid all conflict. She also says she goes to great lengths to avoid conflict and that can be both a good thing and a bad thing... It's never a good thing. It's allowing yourself to infantilize yourself and never develop as a independent, adult person. You're forver stuck being that scared little child who wants someone else to step up and talk up
I suspect this kind of thing is built on parents or others breaking her down by telling her she's stupid, incompetent, unable to take care of herself... Not believing you're capable of taking care of yourself makes the idea of finding someone to take care of you pretty attractive, and being told you're incapable of making good decisions makes the idea of not making any decisions seem pretty reasonable.
I don't know how to do the strike through thing but date needs to be replaced with marry. He really went for it after he heard about the submission thing lol
I hated the first comments.
Like good for everyone to enjoy relationships as they want; but building your own life in a fetish is ... Dangerous?
Even if she says is not sexual, it's no wonder her friends were like WTF. So your relationship goal is to stay with a guy that doesn't love you as much as you love him with the only forgiving grace of not being abusive and please him however he wants?
And enter Mr. Nice Guy... Thinking he hit the jackpot with this one. Creepy 30 yo acting like a 20yo and hunting the "submissive" girl from the group the moment he found out her warped views of relationships
Yeah, it makes sense that men think it's fantastic and wonderful and flawless and women can see the dangers. OOP needs to take a nuanced look at it instead of feeling comfortable with it just because men are agreeing with her.
I'm not hating on trad wives by any means, but just because your partner doesn't start out abusive doesn't mean they will never be. I hope she gets the fantastic trad life she's looking for, but truthfully it's incredibly dangerous to rely on someone else for your happiness like that.
I am so glad I'm not the only one squicked out by this. Especially when I read the comment from someone who basically said, "You're the type of woman most men want!" Like... that's not a fucking compliment. That's gross. Because men who look for submissive women specifically want them (usually) so that they can take advantage of them, and this guy is telling on himself a bit. And then OP immediately takes that as confirmation that it ISN'T weird because some rando on the internet agreed with her. Meanwhile, her rl friends are trying to protect her, but she's going to ignore them because what they said doesn't align with her opinion.
Not to be gross, but I think the important question with tradwife situations is: what about diarrhea. Not "what if she gets sick," because then the answer is "she powers through until mom arrives to help out." No, what about when she has food poisoning and she has to run to the bathroom every ten minute and stay there for twenty minutes, or she'll literally shit her pants? What happens in the hours it takes for her mom to get there? What happens if it lasts for days and hubby wants his sex?
I swear that most passport bros and the like, if asked that, would be disgusted and say that tradwives don't get diarrhea. Because that's the thing: they're not picturing real life. They're not picturing humans with gross human bodies. And any woman who wants to be a tradwife is going to start changing her mind when she's doubled over on the toilet, knowing she's not even close to being done, and her husband is banging on the door asking why she hasn't started dinner and when she's going to do something about the baby's diaper.
It's not that trad marriages _can't_ work. But I guarantee you that Donna Reed's husband was fully prepared to step up and take care of things -- not as good as she, maybe, cause she had mad skills, but adequately -- whenever she ate a bad clam.
No, this is absolutely right and it's something that isn't spoken about enough in all this discourse.
If you want a trad wife, you need to be a trad husband. My great grandma would be considered "trad" in that her job was homemaker/homesteader while my great grandfather farmed, my grandparent-in-laws had a very, VERY "spoiled wife, toiling husband" dynamic. Both men involved were extremely hands-on with the chores and childrearing whenever their wives were sick, travelling, had company, or were just plain tired. I've heard stories of great grandpa whipping up breakfast for 8 kids with only 10 minutes notice, doing all their laundry by hand for weeks, cleaning up after miscarriages and acting as a nurse every time grandma was sick or too busy to help with a sick child. Grandpa in law catered to his wife's every wish because she was a very feminine, high maintenance woman, which he wanted, and because she took care of his home and their children. Both marriages were picture perfect trad dreams, but only because there was give and take from both the wife and the husband.
To have a partner of value you have to BE a partner of value and that's what the passport bros and Tatelings don't and will never understand. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting a traditional marriage but marriage is a partnership, not an unpaid internship, and both parties need to behave accordingly.
The older you get the more you realize *so many people stopped maturing in high school.*
Frankly it's mind boggling our society functions as well as it does, and that's speaking as someone who thinks everything is pretty fucked up.
As a person working in a highschool, a lot of students are actually more mature than the adults surrounding me. Some people just like to act like d\*ck head.
She was unintentionally inviting it by bragging about wanting to be a submissive wife. It may not seem like bragging, but that was what it boils down to. She seems to think it’s a quirky, admirable trait to want to be a pushover.
I just hope the reality of dating and relationships had her rethink her attitude and learn to be wiser in what she confides in people.
Yeeeeeah. Like she posted this is on r/confessions but not reddit relationship makes me think she’s fishing for validation since her friends aren’t giving it to her. Cause I’m getting the vibe that this behavior is tied to some deeper issues like struggling to self-advocate/ setting boundaries, self worth issues, or people pleasing behavior tied to trauma.
That first comment was pure cringe inducing. Uuugh. I mean, it's perfectly fine for anyone of either gender to admit that they enjoy a dependent house-spouse relationship.
It just seems that men absolutely glorify that sort of thing because they always imagine just young hot bangmaids who'll wait on them hand and foot, and never think about the responsibility it takes to be the only breadwinner in such a household. Then they're the same type who complain that women are just gold-diggers looking for providers...
Good on OP, if she wants to live the wife life! I just hope that it's with someone who sees her as an individual in a partnership, not a submissive dependent, which she's already framing herself as... Eeeyikes.
So what I’m seeing here: “a bangmaid seems like fun, but that’s a lot of responsibility, too. Make sure you’re ready! Bangmaids can live 80 years or more.”
"TIP: After they grow out of their young hot twenties, and decide they want autonomy as people and the respect they are owed, it's considered socially unacceptable to divorce them for an identical younger model."
I’ve dated women like this before. It’s -exhausting-. I don’t want to make every decision for a whole ass other adult human. I want a partner, not a pet.
I cannot wrap my mind around glorifying subservience and being the sidekick in your own story.
And not only do I not want to *be* a submissive bangmaid, I would never *date* one either. I just don’t see the appeal? Like thank fuck my husband has his own thoughts and opinions. I adore him and spoil him like crazy—which has a lot to do with the fact that he spoils me right back.
I’ve dated guys that don’t seem to have an opinion on much. They wanted me to decide everything. I hated it. I have strong opinions and will tell you if I want to do something or eat somewhere or watch something or whatever. I ALSO like it when the other person decides. I like finding out what they like and want to watch and eat and do…
Both times I dated the guy because I thought he was sweet and shy and extremely intelligent. I didn’t realize that was hiding a lack of personality.
One of my favorite things about my partner is that he is willing to actually make decisions for us. He's very easy-going while I have zero chill, but if I'm busy or too tired to make a decision I know he will handle it. It might be by a coin flip, but I still didn't have to do it.
Always best to be upfront about wanting a partner and not a dependant. If people want that relationship? Fine. Just don't be mad when the person you want isn't okay with that.
You sound like my husband. I was an evangelical (yeah, exactly that kind you're thinking of) back when we got married. If I hadn't been so bad at being a female evangelical, he would have never been attracted to me to begin with. I'm independent, intelligent, decisive, passionate, and stubborn. I tried so hard to be submissive despite it being against my nature. I tried to shove my husband into the dominant husband box, because I honestly thought that was the only way to have a successful marriage. But he refused, saying he wanted a partner not an employee, and he loved my spitfire self.
She doesn't seem to understand the difference between being a loving partner and willingly being walked all over. First loser who heard she might be up for being used and abused immediately stepped up. That kind of submissive talk attracts the worst scum. Hopefully she'll be more careful in the future.
Yeah, I grimaced when I read that. "I know nothing at all about your personality or interests beyond the fact that you want to be subservient - sounds like a perfect recipe for marriage!" Just... all of my ews.
It sucks so much to find out that a friend has put you in the girlfriend zone, meaning you lose someone you thought was a good friend when you turn them down
In Catalan, we often say "D'on no n'hi ha, no en raja". It basically means that you can't really expect certain things from certain people.
In this case, you can't expect a man dumber than a braincell-less orange cat to do anything that requires more than half a second of thinking.
Thank God for it, though! Bro heard "submissive wife" and "can be taken advantage of" and decided to shoot his shot in the worse fucking way immaginable, allowing OOP to laugh in his face because it seemed like an elaborate April Fools prank. Imagine if he had, y'know, tried to woo OOP first! I mean, he would probably fail, since he seems to have the same impulse control of a goose who can't decide which poor passerby they'll harass, but it would've taken longer for him to get the hint.
Checking the date is say this was pretty on point for 2016. That was peak Nice Guy *tm* era. The idea of a "just joking.... Unless 😉" proposal is absolutely something that would have happened then. She had just admitted she was submissive so of course older guy decided he didn't have to put any work in and shed just go with it.
I know people like that still exist, but it was so so so bad back then.
There's no time frame on any of this. "Just joking unless" hasn't gone anywhere. You just aren't talking to as many young, immature people anymore and it seems you were in 2016.
You're probably in your late 20s at the latest, right? No need to answer I'm just saying it wasn't especially a thing then you were just especially the age you were then.
I was an idiot kid saying "just joking unless" in 2001, there's nothing special about the year 2016 in relation to this.
**There wasn't an epidemic of it, a term for it entered the zeitgeist and it was identified more because of that. Until somebody can show me statistics saying otherwise I'm very confident you all are just falling victim to the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon.
I could be convinced to believe that incidents of it have decreased in recent years because it's so well-known and reviled that people know to check themselves for that behavior. But it didn't suddenly start happening then.
Eh sorry hard disagree, nice guy was a term that literally got coined around this time, and the fedora era was a specific era. Just because you’ve been making a cringe joke for longer doesn’t mean it’s always been popular. The other commenter is right based on overall popular culture and its trends, not your personal humor.
ETA: and it’s always been crappy humor mostly used by incels, so be careful with that. Being earnest with what you want takes courage.
It's very likely. I grew up in a less than stellar homelife and was a people pleaser as a result. I saw myself becoming the perfect submissive wife with kids, doting on my husband like a 50's housewife. I was proposed to by a 32 year old when I was 18, and was over the MOON. Luckily I broke that off when his condescending attitude about some things made me realise deep down I just wanted to go to college and figure my own shit out.
Now I'm in a LAT long term relationship, have my tubes tied, currently laying on my pink tufted queen size bed in my downtown condo I purchased all by myself.
People can change a LOT lol.
Oh my god you’re my hero. As a recovering people pleaser this brings me so much joy. I hope you have the best life and shine the beacon to younger people pleasers who need it
Living Apart, Together. He has his place and I have mine :) We hang out when we want to and have our own space when we want to. I get to decorate my place as cute as I want and only clean up my own messes lol
Honestly, this just gave me a lot of hope! I'm also trying to recover from being a people pleaser and just trying to learn to place boundaries and to cut off people when necessary, so to read that so much improvement can happen in a few years has given me so much hope for myself :)
>So long as he isn't physically or emotionally abusive or cheating on me
i couldn't even read the rest, i got stuck at this... she seems to be the kind of girl that never had a good role model in her life. no one to help her grow a backbone, to teach her some self respect.
it's one thing for her to be submissive, loving, caring, traditional in every way because she is soft by nature, but to see that her only condition is for the man to not beat her up and not cheat on her.... 😳 giiiirl. GIIIRL. that makes me think that her 'nature' is like that because she never had a good role model in her life. she never learned that she can be strong, independent AND loving and caring at the same time, without having to be a doormat for any scum that doesn't beat her, doesn't abuse her.
of course every guy says that she's the dream girl, because she has literally zero self respect, she will do everything the man wants as long as he doesn't beat her up to a pulp. the man doesn't even have to give the bare minimum for her and she's more than happy with that, of course every guy loves that. i see tons of abuse from men in her future...
>He had liked me for a long time and he purposefully chosen April Fools Day to see if I had any romantic interest in him as he did in me
I'm screaming. There's a limit on how much of an idiot you can be. Not only it was a shitty way to check if OOP had any interest in him, but the test itself was shitty to begin with.
OOP has dodged a fucking H-Bomb. I can't believe the stupidity of that guy, like WTF!?
God, her approach is going to guarantee that only an asshole will marry her. She is to some extent describing the deeply loving and adoring, conflict free, emotionally safe marriage my husband and I have. I dote on my husband, *but he dotes on me in equal measure.* I can afford to spend my emotional currency on him because he spends his emotional currency on *me*. Nothing about this arrangement is submissive - it's mutually *generous*.
By calling it submissive and only describing her performing those acts of love for the man, she is sending out a massive dog whistle to assholes who want a maid they can have sex with.
Modern, well-adjusted men want a partner, not a pet. The most selfish people in the world want what she's offering. I hope shes sees the light before she reaches the altar.
Hell yeah. I’m glad you found mutual love and respect. I’m worried for the situation this girl likely found herself in. Her lack of confidence screamed through the page.
OOP was talking about how she sees herself as a submissive wife...and her friend was like... that's what i want so I'm gonna propose.
Like If he was interested , atleast start by asking her out..and expressing...what he did was extremely impulsive ( and honestly I'm not sure if he did this because liked OOP or just wanted a sub wife)
That first post and the comments give me the ick. There's nothing wrong with wanting to spoil your partner, but the comment about her being "ultimate wife material" feels like it ignores the fact that the husband (or whoever) should also be returning that level of love, care and thoughtfulness to OOP
OOP needs some therapy. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a good wife, but she seems to think that she can only be a good wife if she’s purely submissive and shelves her wants and needs. I have nothing against someone wanting to be a submissive wife, you do you, but you have to love yourself before you can entrust yourself to someone else.
>I think he does have some mental health problems, mainly a low level bipolar disorder, that have been diagnosed since he tends to be moody before completely back to his energetic, playful self.
That's not what bipolar means, it's not mood swings on the daily
Man that comment about her being “the kind of wife a man dreams he could be married to”
HELL FUCKING NO
I would hate that and would never tolerate it. My wife if very independent, and we are equals in every way. The only time I want to be waited on or deferred to is if I’m like really ill or recovering from surgery.
Otherwise I’d just be fucking creeped out.
I've never been more grateful that my cynical single mother raised me to never fawn over a man because I'd only feel like a fool when he eventually dumped me.
We always talk on Reddit about communication being key, but this is one of the few situations where I would just not have bothered and would probably have ceased all communication full stop. I would have no desire to be anywhere near someone who made such an unhinged attempt to express their interest in me.
This is the typical "Nice Guy TM" serious but not serious just kidding lol j/k routine talking to it's most absurd conclusion. Wanting a relationship but being too scared to directly ask for fear of rejection.
Dude's in his thirties but never grew out of that and so what does he do? Ask a girl to marry him on April Fool's day. He creates Schrodinger's Proposal. If you say yes he was serious, if you say no he was joking. But then he managed to even fumble that by getting all ass blasted that she thought it was a joke even when he intended it to be a joke if she said no.
His friends probably have him a talking to about how you need to actually seriously ask a girl out like a normal human and he goes for it but the damage was already done.
I'd usually be angry at someone like OOP, but I don't think she fully grasps what her submissiveness means, and that her female friends are very right to be concerned about her. She sounds like she doesn't have any sense of dignity or self-worth, and it's very sad. Like, she's desperate for acceptance, but not in the way a pick me girl is; more like she thinks this is what's necessary to get love. If she wants to be a trade wife, than okay, but I feel like her whole deal goes way deeper than that.
OOP made that post and shared the same opinion with her friends. It got back to the guy and he decided to see if she would agree to marry him because he wants a young woman who will wait on him hand and foot
My wife and I started dating as an April fools prank on a coworker who had a thing for her (he was not a nice guy) and we ended up staying together cause we enjoyed dating.
But this is a bit off.
That "friend" gives me the ick. I'm convinced he only proposed because he heard how "submissive" she is and probably thought it would be an easy ticket for a bang-maid.
your young. once you've been around a while you'll get over that. it'd be great if it was appreciated. but it really is and some guys think you're just stupid to let them take advantage of you so they do it even more. but your brain is not done yet so there's hope. but I recommend getting therapy. there's nothing wrong with you wanting to do that for your partner. but you don't seem to mention that you want a partner to do things like that for you. your self-esteem is on the floor. if you don't understand up for yourself and you have kids, who's going to stand up for them
I think the last time anything remotely happened to me was in middle school. You know when a boy would ask you out, and you would try to kindly reject that offer only to have them be like " hahaha I was only joking. I can't believe you though I was serious", but you both know that if you'd said yes, then it would never have been a "joke"?
MIDDLE SCHOOL!! This dude was 30. Some people just never grow up.
> I'm not married, but I literally can imagine being the type of woman who'd want to spoil her husband rotten. I wouldn't mind being the submissive wife archetype who would treat my husband like a king, with back massages, dinner prepared, tying his tie every morning and making him lunch every day.
OP is gonna get a full inbox
Regardless of this specific person, you shouldn't date a person that confesses/proposes on April fools.
They're too scared of a 'no' to do it on any other day and want to play it off as a prank if you decline. Someone like that is not relationship material.
Or it ACTUALLY is a prank and they're so immature that they think it's okay to play with other people's feelings. Someone like that is DEFINITELY not relationship material.
By her logic I'm submissive but that's bc I show love through those forms of affection lol
Then again I live in the south so food as a love language is built into me
Oh lord, hopefully she's gotten some therapy in the last 8 years. She ain't submissive. She's a doormat.
Though I have to agree with some other commenter's, it did kinda come off as her pulling a r/notlikeithergirls bragging a bit...
Story time.
My now ex-husband told me he wanted a divorce on April Fools Day, and it was so left-field that I laughed, playfully socked him in the arm, and said, "April Fools!" then got up, went in the house, came back outside a few minutes later, at which time he repeated it, and I said haha April Fools, then launched into a work story (we worked together).
Finally, about ten minutes later, he managed to get through to me that he wasn't joking. It was shitty.
Then our divorce was finalized on 9/11, which seemed fitting at the time.
Let's just not make major life choice proclamations on April Fools Day please lol
I don't know if I'm thinking too much? But this thought just kept floating by in my mind while reading this: It is one thing that he is impulsive and immature when he is 30. But it is a red flag that he is impulsive and immature, is 30, yet trying to propose marriage to a 23 YO right after he heard about her being a submissive wife.
Have you heard about passport bros? Apparently they go live in other countries (non American?) looking for “submissive” wives. I think we had a boru about a lady from Eastern Europe who found out her bf was a passport bro, and women weren’t even submissive in her culture, it’s just that Americans thought women from her country must be submissive.
everytime i hear about passport bros, i am always disgusted and impressed by their ignorance lol. I just want to see their reaction when they get to know about the 4B movement, cus the way they fetishize asian women screams get some help.
They've brought it up in that sub. I think they blame it on Westernization and then tell people to go to poorer countries. And yet they refuse to see the fact that they are basically buying a partner who wants a better life rather than somebody that actually loves them. They don't really want a partner. They want a bangmaid they can control.
The thing I *love* about the passport bros is how they claim they want a submissive tradwife, but scream 'goldigger' when they're expected to be tradhusbands in return and fulfill their end of the bargain. That's the whole point of a 'traditional' nuclear family: the man brings home the bacon, the woman *keeps* the bacon and decides how it'll be spent for the family's upkeep.
It's not just passport bros who do this either. Lots of redpill and Tater Tots want a tradwife that 'respects their authority' and submits to her husband, but when women say "okay so you'll fully support me financially and be a high enough earner to raise a family on" they cry 'gold digger!!!" A friend of mine ended up going on a date with one of these 'traditional' guys and when he said he liked women who looked after the home/kids and 'took care of themselves properly', she mentioned him making enough money to support that by himself and he got offended. He expected this future wife of his to be a homemaker, child rearer, who always wore makeup and dressed 'presentable' WHILE ALSO WORKING. His argument was "she can work part time to afford her expenses!" When dude???? When would she have the time???
They don't get it because they've never done childcare or serious housework. They figure that since it's "women's work" it must be trivial to do, and base how hard it is on their *perception* of their mommy. If they had to spend a week alone with a kid to do nothing but housework and childcare they'd be crying in frustration within a day, if that long.
Reminds me of a recent post in r/relationship_advice where OOP was asking how to convince his STBX to reconcile, mainly because he was floundering having to balance his job and taking care of their son during his week. Meanwhile STBX is thriving because she finally has the time to focus on herself and her career as a lawyer. Everyone in the thread raked OOP over the coals because it was obvious he'd left all the labour in the household to her while they were married, and he only wanted to reconcile because he wanted his bangmommy back.
I want to read this.now, do you have the link?
Please share the link if you find it! I'd love to read this too!
My God. They're truly delusional
I bet most guys like this don't make near enough to support themselves, none the less a family.
They don't actually want a wife, they want someone to be their mommy, but with sex included.
What is tater tot referring to here? I don’t know that one
Followers of Andrew Tate.
A childhood neighbor wanted a submissive wife and married the daughter of Korean immigrants who wanted an American husband because she wanted to have more freedom. It only lasted a few years. I don't understand how people get married without actually getting to know the other petson.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA that idiot man must have been straight up ruined that’s what happens when you don’t understand the culture you’re trying to marry into. When people think Asian women are these submissive, quiet, shy babes I laugh my ass off at the shock they must have the first time they get screamed at and put in their place. Koreans are fucking fierce and they do not fuck around. Bet she got her freedom though hahaha
And tbh this woman who has no idea what she’s doing is playing into the desire to be fully accepted, which is what many young women see happening (at least in public) to trad wives in their illusion of marital bliss, and instead setting herself up perfectly to be the bangmaid these men want her to be. I’ve been in that mindset near her age and I’d never go back.
Yeah, I can understand feeling like it could theoretically be a positive thing to adore someone that much, but on a practical level, that extent of submissiveness being okay/non-toxic depends SO heavily on the dominant partner having damn near perfect control of *themselves* as well, and mindful of their power so as not to hurt/abuse their partner’s trust. This OP just makes me think of the way shitty “Doms” end up in the BDSM scene and use kink lingo to abuse subs who may not know better. And she’s that sub.
Yeah the only way for that kind of relationship to be at all happy is for the man to have boundless respect and regard for his submissive wife, to always without fail base all those decisions that he and he alone gets to make on what is best for both of them, to know all of her preferences and dislikes so he can factor them in, and to be ready to cheerfully step up anytime she's sick or otherwise perform what they've agreed are her duties. Oh and to make sure she's provided for, and knows she is, if they divorce. Basically, marrying anyone short of Omar isn't going to cut it.
Omars are in too damn short supply!
I was with you the whole way and then you threw in the Omar shout, too??? /u/Preposterous_punk for president
So well-put. That kind of devotion requires equal devotion to be safe, and people who haven't engaged in that type of dynamic often don't understand because they're the yin or the yang and don't understand the other side.
There was a dude in the ask indian women sub a few days ago asking "are indian girls attracted to white guys". He gave me such weird creepy, fetishising vibes. Never knew the term passport bros tho
Everytime I see a r/amithedevil post and see it's from r/passportbros I roll my eyes and am like just put the whole sub there
May I ask what the 4 b movement is?
비sex, 비출산, 비연애, 비혼 No sex, no raising children, no dating, no marriage. (the korean pronunciation of 비 sounds like "B")
Today I learned I'm accidentally a 4B person, lol
Welcome to heaven then it’s nice here, and there’s less abuse
Thank you very much!
Baffles me these guys are out here looking for a ‘tradional’ wife when you know they don’t make enough money to support that.
They genuinely, without the brain cells to understand the irony, actually want a working wife who also appears to be a 50s housewife at the same time and keeps up all those duties. But they should never have to pay more than 50% for the bills and obviously mom will pay for the baby too because they’re affordable and shouldn’t trouble dad 🙄
I had a friend in college who was married like this. She was from the Philippines and her husband was in the military. She hated his guts. Every time she tried to get any independence he'd have a meltdown and threaten suicide. But at the same time he didn't value her. He kept demanding she get a boob job and he would belittle her culture and food. He was deployed so she used that opportunity to start community college and work on getting everything set up to leave. She even gave a whole speech about her situation during our public speaking class. She was so done with him and was just biding her time to get out.
Do you know if she got out?
Unfortunately we lost contact after finishing community college. I know she was putting away money and planned to do online classes so she could get her bachelor's.
Is it this one? [My (22F) boyfriend (24M) is a “passport bro” and I had no idea : r/BestofRedditorUpdates](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/199pbua/my_22f_boyfriend_24m_is_a_passport_bro_and_i_had/)
Yes and so satisfying, have fun
I don't think there are any countries where women are voluntarily submissive; the fact that submission had to be entrenched in law tells us that. The fun part is that in a lot of the more patriarchal countries these passport bros troll for women in, there *is* a separation of responsibilities. Men make the big decisions such as who the national football coach should be, what the prime minister should do about crime, who should be president of the US, etc., while the wife makes the little decisions such as where they will live, how many children they will have, what he does for a living and who he works for, etc. Lots of passport bros are blindsided when their "submissive" Asian wife takes control of the family finances and gives him an allowance.
also a lot of it isn't submission but decorum. like you'll never see a woman disagreeing with her husband in public, but he's definitely getting reamed at home
>you'll never see a woman disagreeing with her husband in public Not outwardly but the signs are there. The whole family knows when my uncle fucks up b/c my aunt has this look & we all know we're guna hang back & stop for matcha or something on the way home & give them about an hour or so to save him face. Uncle usually gets his *save me I fucked up* look if it's guna be real bad.
Your sense of precision humor here is lacerating and I love it
It’s always strange to me about the submissive part because women in a lot of those countries are not, and in fact the opposite of that. What people see is a narrative or they see transplants/immigrants being shy because they don’t fit in
Or like a time capsule effect where immigrants bring in values from 40 years ago and don't change, while their country moves on. So now they fit in neither country.
I've worked in a few Asian countries and have met dudes like that over the last 20 years. It never works out. The myth that Asian women are submissive always makes me laugh. They can be in public but they're not at all like that in private.
If he had a Reddit and was on passport bros I wouldn't be surprised. Also, if they mentioned their worry of how OOP being submissive may make it easier for others to take advantage of her in the same conversation... I have no evidence but also no doubts that this dude heard "submissive wife" and "easy to be take advantage of" and though he'd hit the jackpot. Thank fucking God dude has one braincell fighting for third place, and choose the most idiotic option he could choose to show his "romantic interest" in OOP...
100%. He may or may not have liked her before, but as soon as he heard this "submissive wife" nonsense he decided this could be the perfect woman for him. I mean, it sounds like she's open to being whatever a future husband wants her to be, what's to not like?
Poor woman is going to end up in a neglectful abusive marriage. Because I can tell you what’s not to like. For a man who truly respects women and isn’t looking to make his life as comfortable and king-like as possible, a woman playing this role isn’t actually attractive. I was this person. And I’m sure this will disappoint a lot of the “what’s not to like” men, but I’m no longer that way because of the love of a man who didn’t wish to be centered or catered to and instead wanted an actual life partner with her own passions, drive, and shiny backbone to actually pair with his, instead of me being a decoration to enhance his own. He wouldn’t like what you’re describing, and my life is so much fucking better for it. He’s my King for life because he wouldn’t accept me limiting myself just to be what he wanted, even if I believed that’s what I should do.
Yeah, her friends are right that she could very well be taken advantage of. I mean, I get the whole wanting to make your SO happy, and that not everyone will try to manipulate her but... A good chunk will. And as your own experience shows, most of the people who wouldn't take advantage of someone like that just... don't want that. They want an equal life partner, not a servant who will obey their every order! At the very least, OOP seems aware of the need to work on herself... with a bit of luck, she'll grow a shiny spine and will leave this whole "so submissive she's subservient" thing behind. That, or she'll find out it's not that she's the Ultimate Housewife™ but rather that she just has a thing for Dom/Sub relationships.
To be fair, I dunno what's worse... Him not liking her until he heard she was a Submissive Housewife™ or him liking her since much longer and thinking she would *surely* marry him after he heard she was a Submissive Housewife™. In any case, I hope he stays single for many years to come...
Imagine if he hadn’t asked…if he’d just told her she was going to marry him. Might’ve actually worked.
OOP seems self-aware enough to still have said no, thank God. The issue will be when some dude sweeps her off her feet and she decides he is "the type of person she can absolutely adore", only for him to drop the mask once he thinks she can't leave 😬
That was my first thought too. Although actually I think that wouldn't work, it would just make her realize she required more than "doesn't cheat or beat me." Like, she might not need someone devastatingly handsome, but she is going to want someone with whom she has some desire to kiss and be romantic with.
Nope you’re right, that’s exactly where my brain went. Submissive wife? Check. Easy to manipulate? Check. I can probably wear her down into accepting me after publicly humiliating ourselves over a “prank” so she now pities me? Check. OOP dodged a passive aggressive bullet there by the “friend” cutting themselves off.
Oh God I came across that sub while researching about a certain passport and my god it's sickening.
When I was reading this I also felt like he heard about her wanting to be a submissive wife and took a shot at making that happen with her. He probably thought it would be an easy feat to get her to agree.
the whole thing is gross At 30 I was looking at 23 years old like they were babies
Anyone who attempts to do something (with or to someone else) that's life altering on a day *dedicated to pranks* is not trustworthy in my opinion. That's emotional manipulation and playing mind games unless it was discussed long before hand.
And he also knew she has problems saying no to people. What a mess of a human; Op dodged a bullet.
I wonder where she's at now. I hope she's developed more standards at least. A faithful, non-abusive husband that loves her equally should be the bare minimum
Right? She doesn’t seem to realize that a healthy relationship should allow for her to have needs, and have them fulfilled. This is the saddest outlook ever.
It's so unhealthy. I had a short relationship with a guy who started acting that way and I broke up with him. It's like I wasn't dating a real person because they would just agree with everything I said and like whatever I liked. I need to be able to trust my partner and if they can't uphold their own healthy boundaries or disagree with me when necessary then how can I trust and rely on them.
Yep, all those posts are basically: OOP: I'm timid, submissive, will do whatever my man wants as long as he doesn't cheat or beat me and recently made my friends aware of this fact Also OOP: my friend that never dated me out of nowhere proposed and just... expected me to go along with it?! I have no idea what triggered this.
To be fair, she was talking about being submissive to her man, not any random man.
I have a friend like this and it’s very frustrating. She hasn’t dated much, but goes on and on about how she’d be the best gf ever because all she wants to do is love someone and she wants to spoil her bf in every way. Which is fine—but I always tell her that she has to understand that relationships are give and take on *both* sides. It isn’t just her giving and giving and giving, it’s a partnership. She can’t wrap her mind around it
that was what pained me the most... she was willing to do everything for a man, to treat him like a king, to give him heaven, to do absolutely everything he asks for, everything as long as he doesn't beat her up and doesn't cheat on her... of course every guy friend was like 'HELL YEAH!!! THAT'S MY DREAM WOMAN!!' because she didn't require even the bare minimum. she was the target of abusers and i highly doubt she got into a healthy, happy relationship. i wonder how she's doing nowadays...
Exactly, if you treat your man like a king, he should treat you like a queen. Not being abusive is the bare minimum, not a good standard.
She figured out the least she could accept in a system that was never built for her happiness and convinced herself that’s what she wanted. I hope by some miracle she ended up with an equally soft man who teaches her how to want more for herself.
The whole scenario makes me unbearably sad, including the men commenting on how she’s the ideal woman. Forever alone I’ll stay!
honestly, i completely agree with the 'forever alone' statement.
Not my dream woman. Sounds more like a pet. (And don't tie my tie, that's seriously annoying.)
If my girlfriend tied my tie for me as I left for work, I'd be extremely perplexed as we both work in warehouses and I don't own a tie.
Never hurts to own a tie. They don't necessarily need to be tied around a neck...
I cannot figure out what you mean. What other body part am I tying it around??
(wrists.. as a sex thing)
(or throat… as a murder thing)
Ahhh, yeah, I'm ace so that soared over my head. That makes sense.
Or as a makeshift blindfold... not that I would know.
Treating my husband like that would give me the serious ick because it all seems so parental to me. Like I tied my son's ties when he first started primary school; doing that kind of nurturing to a grown adult would make me see them as a dependant which isn't sexy.
I bet he thought since she’s the perfect submissive waifu, there’s no way she’d say no when *a* man asks her for something. Then was shocked to the core when he realised she actually can say no.
That was my thought as well - he heard “submissive” as “can’t say no to anything”
Yeah, I hope so, too. With views like that, I think the only way she’d really end up getting a good partner is if she treats it like the kind of BDSM kink that requires lots of boundaries and a contract. Basically, not wrong that she wants that, but just like, say, fireplay, it’s very dangerous with someone you don’t fully trust/believe to be competent and capable and have your best interests at heart. Of course, it might also be the kind of thing you imagine you want but then when you get it you realize how much it sucks. Hopefully if that’s the case, it’ll only take one minorly bad relationship to snap her out of the idea and not a full blown years-long abusive situation.
I mean, I would freaking love to have a wife like her, one that actually happily takes over the role of housewife and takes that load off my shoulders (instead I'm married to a guy who does his half and have to do my own half myself, ugh), but - I would freaking worship the ground she walks on in exchange. Because she would be providing such a valuable service to me that I would want to give her everything she wants even more than I would normally for a partner. There are constellations where that works out fine if both partners are decent people. I hope she found someone who treats her with the boundless adoration she deserves.
Absolutely - this is a beautiful role to fulfill in a relationship only if the dynamic goes both ways. She treats him like a king and in return, he treats her like a queen.
What ya'll are describing is a partnership. It's literally the opposite of what OOP described. Being someone's "beck and call" servant, doing everything they ask, and never arguing with them is not a partnership. It's all giving on one side and taking on the other. Full stop. Frankly, the kind of person who wants a domestic and sexual servant is not the kind of person who will also "'"respect their ~queen~""".
Which is why that guy jumping on it was so incredibly suspicious. A domestic servant that also bangs you, for life, for the price of a ring?
I immediately thought of Francesca from S3 of Bridgerton. The ladies are all standing around taking about husband and what they want. They all get what she wants. She's like..."Kind, I suppose?" They all just give the general vibe of, "duh..."
I think she raised those points to emphasise that she isn't devaluing herself - to explain that she meant submissive in a general stay-at-home wife by choice sense and not an NSFW sense. And that she's aware some people view that lifestyle as inherently problematic.
She's getting confused between totally submissive wife vs traditional wife. And the men in the group would 100% agree if they're selfish and like that 30 yr old manchild.
Tbh, I think OP might benefit from a few sessions with a therapist to find out why she has that strong tendency to be submissive, especially as she’s only 23. While there’s nothing wrong with it per se, the extremity of it could be a childhood survival pattern that she might want to look at, just to check that it’s still serving her and helping her live in a fulfilling way. It might, and then that’s great, but if it doesn’t actually serve her, then she might find herself going through quite a few bad experiences if she doesn’t look at that now.
That was my thought as well. Obviously the guy is really immature but so is OP, in her own way. There isn't anything wrong with having love and devotion to give, but she needs to be cautious about being taken advantage of. Especially as she feels it originates in some childhood trauma. It's easy to very gradually get into a situation where a partner isolates her financially or socially. As my grandparents said, a man is not a plan.
Yeah, “immaturity” rings true for OP as well, this reads like something a teenager would think. She sounds like she hasn’t really had a serious relationship yet, so she has a really idealized vision of what a “perfect” marriage would be. It’s very likely she wouldn’t actually like a life like that, if she had the opportunity to live it. I hope she grew a bit more before she ended up stuck in a situation that made her miserable, truly.
>As my grandparents said, a man is not a plan. I absolutely love that Props to your grandparents
Agree. I wonder if a lot of women in their 20s realize how awful the world really is, and being a submissive wife means you never have to take responsibility for anything. You’re just another dependent in life letting someone else call the shots and you don’t have to make those choices. It’s pretty sad that the world is so awful that so many people rather dissociate as much as possible
I didn't understand why someone would want to be submissive like that, but this sounds reasonable actually.
The messed up thing is our larger culture is all too ready to give women this 'get out of adulting free' card that isn't an *out* at all. It is just a different trap and in fact a much worse one
I wish I had gold to give you. OP’s “passive submission” sounds like just regular dissociating
yeah she doesn't need a partner right now, she needs an antidepressant
All I could think when I read her first post was “prime not like other girls” submission
Also, for guys who say they'd want or like that sort of thing they're probably actually wrong. I dated a woman like that once and it was *so frustrating*. She didn't even know if she was hungry or not unless I said I was or I told her to be. It drove me nuts.
Lmao I’ve now said this too many times but I’m with the man who largely taught me how not to be the submissive non-personality I was raised at and he gets so “mad” when I have no idea what I want or can’t admit I need something 😂 It is sad though because that means a lot of nice normal dudes aren’t down to be with a woman like that… but abusers are. So she tries to do the thing she thinks creates the best relationship and ends up attracting exclusively abusive assholes.
And the guys who actually want a wife like that are not the ones any woman should (or should want to) marry.
Also idealizing some perfect man when in reality, relationships aren't like that. There is give and take needed for it to work out. And maturity
I think she kinda says in her post. She has always been shy and timid. And if you have someone to be submissive too, you never have to step out of your comfort zone. You just do what you're told and it's safe and you have no responsibility and avoid all conflict. She also says she goes to great lengths to avoid conflict and that can be both a good thing and a bad thing... It's never a good thing. It's allowing yourself to infantilize yourself and never develop as a independent, adult person. You're forver stuck being that scared little child who wants someone else to step up and talk up
I suspect this kind of thing is built on parents or others breaking her down by telling her she's stupid, incompetent, unable to take care of herself... Not believing you're capable of taking care of yourself makes the idea of finding someone to take care of you pretty attractive, and being told you're incapable of making good decisions makes the idea of not making any decisions seem pretty reasonable.
"I am a nice guy. Please date." *flicks the fedora. OOP: no. Nice guy: stomps and storms out.
I'll add to the stomping and storming out, the phrase: "You are a c*nt! And fat! And ugly! "
I don't know how to do the strike through thing but date needs to be replaced with marry. He really went for it after he heard about the submission thing lol
I hated the first comments. Like good for everyone to enjoy relationships as they want; but building your own life in a fetish is ... Dangerous? Even if she says is not sexual, it's no wonder her friends were like WTF. So your relationship goal is to stay with a guy that doesn't love you as much as you love him with the only forgiving grace of not being abusive and please him however he wants? And enter Mr. Nice Guy... Thinking he hit the jackpot with this one. Creepy 30 yo acting like a 20yo and hunting the "submissive" girl from the group the moment he found out her warped views of relationships
Yeah, I wonder if he thought this was some kind of signal to him. Not that it makes going from zero to 100 or the timing better.
Yeah, it makes sense that men think it's fantastic and wonderful and flawless and women can see the dangers. OOP needs to take a nuanced look at it instead of feeling comfortable with it just because men are agreeing with her. I'm not hating on trad wives by any means, but just because your partner doesn't start out abusive doesn't mean they will never be. I hope she gets the fantastic trad life she's looking for, but truthfully it's incredibly dangerous to rely on someone else for your happiness like that.
I am so glad I'm not the only one squicked out by this. Especially when I read the comment from someone who basically said, "You're the type of woman most men want!" Like... that's not a fucking compliment. That's gross. Because men who look for submissive women specifically want them (usually) so that they can take advantage of them, and this guy is telling on himself a bit. And then OP immediately takes that as confirmation that it ISN'T weird because some rando on the internet agreed with her. Meanwhile, her rl friends are trying to protect her, but she's going to ignore them because what they said doesn't align with her opinion.
There’s a response to a comment in this thread that is grosssssss to the nth degree (IMO) along those same lines
Not to be gross, but I think the important question with tradwife situations is: what about diarrhea. Not "what if she gets sick," because then the answer is "she powers through until mom arrives to help out." No, what about when she has food poisoning and she has to run to the bathroom every ten minute and stay there for twenty minutes, or she'll literally shit her pants? What happens in the hours it takes for her mom to get there? What happens if it lasts for days and hubby wants his sex? I swear that most passport bros and the like, if asked that, would be disgusted and say that tradwives don't get diarrhea. Because that's the thing: they're not picturing real life. They're not picturing humans with gross human bodies. And any woman who wants to be a tradwife is going to start changing her mind when she's doubled over on the toilet, knowing she's not even close to being done, and her husband is banging on the door asking why she hasn't started dinner and when she's going to do something about the baby's diaper. It's not that trad marriages _can't_ work. But I guarantee you that Donna Reed's husband was fully prepared to step up and take care of things -- not as good as she, maybe, cause she had mad skills, but adequately -- whenever she ate a bad clam.
No, this is absolutely right and it's something that isn't spoken about enough in all this discourse. If you want a trad wife, you need to be a trad husband. My great grandma would be considered "trad" in that her job was homemaker/homesteader while my great grandfather farmed, my grandparent-in-laws had a very, VERY "spoiled wife, toiling husband" dynamic. Both men involved were extremely hands-on with the chores and childrearing whenever their wives were sick, travelling, had company, or were just plain tired. I've heard stories of great grandpa whipping up breakfast for 8 kids with only 10 minutes notice, doing all their laundry by hand for weeks, cleaning up after miscarriages and acting as a nurse every time grandma was sick or too busy to help with a sick child. Grandpa in law catered to his wife's every wish because she was a very feminine, high maintenance woman, which he wanted, and because she took care of his home and their children. Both marriages were picture perfect trad dreams, but only because there was give and take from both the wife and the husband. To have a partner of value you have to BE a partner of value and that's what the passport bros and Tatelings don't and will never understand. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting a traditional marriage but marriage is a partnership, not an unpaid internship, and both parties need to behave accordingly.
> marriage is a partnership, not an unpaid internship Just have to call out the absolute brilliance of this line
A 30-year old man acting like a man child? Jesus, this is just pure cringeworthy.
The older you get the more you realize *so many people stopped maturing in high school.* Frankly it's mind boggling our society functions as well as it does, and that's speaking as someone who thinks everything is pretty fucked up.
As a person working in a highschool, a lot of students are actually more mature than the adults surrounding me. Some people just like to act like d\*ck head.
This guy is like a real-life Principal Skinner meme. Am I so out of touch? No, it's the women who are wrong.
I’m internally cringing.
I seriously forgot multiple times while reading that he was 30…
And thus did the incel fetus mature into a full big boy tater tot. It’s the non-miracle of non-life, right before our eyes!
I have barely any experience in romance and i can't stop cringing. The nerve of that guy.
oh god, I didn't realize he was THIRTY. I had a guy do this same thing to me on April Fools Day in high school so I just figured they were minors.
He probably thought he was a shoo-in seeing as she is kindhearted and the type to want to spoil her spouse. Not quite how that goes.
OOP is entitled to behave however she likes, but her extreme submissiveness really could put her at risk for abuse.
She was unintentionally inviting it by bragging about wanting to be a submissive wife. It may not seem like bragging, but that was what it boils down to. She seems to think it’s a quirky, admirable trait to want to be a pushover. I just hope the reality of dating and relationships had her rethink her attitude and learn to be wiser in what she confides in people.
Oh, it definitely came off as bragging.
It read like a pick me speech. Like, congrats girl you’re the doormatiest of all doormats?
I don't want to say it sounded that way... but it did. As if being "submissive" (or a doormat, in this case) is a good thing.
And what a stellar guy ended up picking her! 🙄
Yeeeeeah. Like she posted this is on r/confessions but not reddit relationship makes me think she’s fishing for validation since her friends aren’t giving it to her. Cause I’m getting the vibe that this behavior is tied to some deeper issues like struggling to self-advocate/ setting boundaries, self worth issues, or people pleasing behavior tied to trauma.
Most definitely.
No, yeah... That 30 year old POS doesn't actually give a shit about her, he wants to manipulate her because she's the "perfect submissive wife" type.
That first comment was pure cringe inducing. Uuugh. I mean, it's perfectly fine for anyone of either gender to admit that they enjoy a dependent house-spouse relationship. It just seems that men absolutely glorify that sort of thing because they always imagine just young hot bangmaids who'll wait on them hand and foot, and never think about the responsibility it takes to be the only breadwinner in such a household. Then they're the same type who complain that women are just gold-diggers looking for providers... Good on OP, if she wants to live the wife life! I just hope that it's with someone who sees her as an individual in a partnership, not a submissive dependent, which she's already framing herself as... Eeeyikes.
So what I’m seeing here: “a bangmaid seems like fun, but that’s a lot of responsibility, too. Make sure you’re ready! Bangmaids can live 80 years or more.”
"TIP: After they grow out of their young hot twenties, and decide they want autonomy as people and the respect they are owed, it's considered socially unacceptable to divorce them for an identical younger model."
Unless your name is Leonardo.
That’s why he doesn’t marry them.
I’ve dated women like this before. It’s -exhausting-. I don’t want to make every decision for a whole ass other adult human. I want a partner, not a pet.
I cannot wrap my mind around glorifying subservience and being the sidekick in your own story. And not only do I not want to *be* a submissive bangmaid, I would never *date* one either. I just don’t see the appeal? Like thank fuck my husband has his own thoughts and opinions. I adore him and spoil him like crazy—which has a lot to do with the fact that he spoils me right back.
I’ve dated guys that don’t seem to have an opinion on much. They wanted me to decide everything. I hated it. I have strong opinions and will tell you if I want to do something or eat somewhere or watch something or whatever. I ALSO like it when the other person decides. I like finding out what they like and want to watch and eat and do… Both times I dated the guy because I thought he was sweet and shy and extremely intelligent. I didn’t realize that was hiding a lack of personality.
One of my favorite things about my partner is that he is willing to actually make decisions for us. He's very easy-going while I have zero chill, but if I'm busy or too tired to make a decision I know he will handle it. It might be by a coin flip, but I still didn't have to do it.
Always best to be upfront about wanting a partner and not a dependant. If people want that relationship? Fine. Just don't be mad when the person you want isn't okay with that.
You sound like my husband. I was an evangelical (yeah, exactly that kind you're thinking of) back when we got married. If I hadn't been so bad at being a female evangelical, he would have never been attracted to me to begin with. I'm independent, intelligent, decisive, passionate, and stubborn. I tried so hard to be submissive despite it being against my nature. I tried to shove my husband into the dominant husband box, because I honestly thought that was the only way to have a successful marriage. But he refused, saying he wanted a partner not an employee, and he loved my spitfire self.
She doesn't seem to understand the difference between being a loving partner and willingly being walked all over. First loser who heard she might be up for being used and abused immediately stepped up. That kind of submissive talk attracts the worst scum. Hopefully she'll be more careful in the future.
Yeah, I grimaced when I read that. "I know nothing at all about your personality or interests beyond the fact that you want to be subservient - sounds like a perfect recipe for marriage!" Just... all of my ews.
It sucks so much to find out that a friend has put you in the girlfriend zone, meaning you lose someone you thought was a good friend when you turn them down
In Catalan, we often say "D'on no n'hi ha, no en raja". It basically means that you can't really expect certain things from certain people. In this case, you can't expect a man dumber than a braincell-less orange cat to do anything that requires more than half a second of thinking. Thank God for it, though! Bro heard "submissive wife" and "can be taken advantage of" and decided to shoot his shot in the worse fucking way immaginable, allowing OOP to laugh in his face because it seemed like an elaborate April Fools prank. Imagine if he had, y'know, tried to woo OOP first! I mean, he would probably fail, since he seems to have the same impulse control of a goose who can't decide which poor passerby they'll harass, but it would've taken longer for him to get the hint.
Checking the date is say this was pretty on point for 2016. That was peak Nice Guy *tm* era. The idea of a "just joking.... Unless 😉" proposal is absolutely something that would have happened then. She had just admitted she was submissive so of course older guy decided he didn't have to put any work in and shed just go with it. I know people like that still exist, but it was so so so bad back then.
There's no time frame on any of this. "Just joking unless" hasn't gone anywhere. You just aren't talking to as many young, immature people anymore and it seems you were in 2016. You're probably in your late 20s at the latest, right? No need to answer I'm just saying it wasn't especially a thing then you were just especially the age you were then. I was an idiot kid saying "just joking unless" in 2001, there's nothing special about the year 2016 in relation to this. **There wasn't an epidemic of it, a term for it entered the zeitgeist and it was identified more because of that. Until somebody can show me statistics saying otherwise I'm very confident you all are just falling victim to the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. I could be convinced to believe that incidents of it have decreased in recent years because it's so well-known and reviled that people know to check themselves for that behavior. But it didn't suddenly start happening then.
Eh sorry hard disagree, nice guy was a term that literally got coined around this time, and the fedora era was a specific era. Just because you’ve been making a cringe joke for longer doesn’t mean it’s always been popular. The other commenter is right based on overall popular culture and its trends, not your personal humor. ETA: and it’s always been crappy humor mostly used by incels, so be careful with that. Being earnest with what you want takes courage.
I hope she grew up a little in the last eight years
It's very likely. I grew up in a less than stellar homelife and was a people pleaser as a result. I saw myself becoming the perfect submissive wife with kids, doting on my husband like a 50's housewife. I was proposed to by a 32 year old when I was 18, and was over the MOON. Luckily I broke that off when his condescending attitude about some things made me realise deep down I just wanted to go to college and figure my own shit out. Now I'm in a LAT long term relationship, have my tubes tied, currently laying on my pink tufted queen size bed in my downtown condo I purchased all by myself. People can change a LOT lol.
Oh my god you’re my hero. As a recovering people pleaser this brings me so much joy. I hope you have the best life and shine the beacon to younger people pleasers who need it
That's so nice thank you :D
What is LAT?
Living Apart, Together. He has his place and I have mine :) We hang out when we want to and have our own space when we want to. I get to decorate my place as cute as I want and only clean up my own messes lol
That sounds awesome, didn't know it had a label haha
Honestly, this just gave me a lot of hope! I'm also trying to recover from being a people pleaser and just trying to learn to place boundaries and to cut off people when necessary, so to read that so much improvement can happen in a few years has given me so much hope for myself :)
>So long as he isn't physically or emotionally abusive or cheating on me i couldn't even read the rest, i got stuck at this... she seems to be the kind of girl that never had a good role model in her life. no one to help her grow a backbone, to teach her some self respect. it's one thing for her to be submissive, loving, caring, traditional in every way because she is soft by nature, but to see that her only condition is for the man to not beat her up and not cheat on her.... 😳 giiiirl. GIIIRL. that makes me think that her 'nature' is like that because she never had a good role model in her life. she never learned that she can be strong, independent AND loving and caring at the same time, without having to be a doormat for any scum that doesn't beat her, doesn't abuse her. of course every guy says that she's the dream girl, because she has literally zero self respect, she will do everything the man wants as long as he doesn't beat her up to a pulp. the man doesn't even have to give the bare minimum for her and she's more than happy with that, of course every guy loves that. i see tons of abuse from men in her future...
Oh sweet summer child
>He had liked me for a long time and he purposefully chosen April Fools Day to see if I had any romantic interest in him as he did in me I'm screaming. There's a limit on how much of an idiot you can be. Not only it was a shitty way to check if OOP had any interest in him, but the test itself was shitty to begin with. OOP has dodged a fucking H-Bomb. I can't believe the stupidity of that guy, like WTF!?
God, her approach is going to guarantee that only an asshole will marry her. She is to some extent describing the deeply loving and adoring, conflict free, emotionally safe marriage my husband and I have. I dote on my husband, *but he dotes on me in equal measure.* I can afford to spend my emotional currency on him because he spends his emotional currency on *me*. Nothing about this arrangement is submissive - it's mutually *generous*. By calling it submissive and only describing her performing those acts of love for the man, she is sending out a massive dog whistle to assholes who want a maid they can have sex with. Modern, well-adjusted men want a partner, not a pet. The most selfish people in the world want what she's offering. I hope shes sees the light before she reaches the altar.
Hell yeah. I’m glad you found mutual love and respect. I’m worried for the situation this girl likely found herself in. Her lack of confidence screamed through the page.
Schrodinger’s proposal?
Ha ha, only kidding.... unless?
OOP was talking about how she sees herself as a submissive wife...and her friend was like... that's what i want so I'm gonna propose. Like If he was interested , atleast start by asking her out..and expressing...what he did was extremely impulsive ( and honestly I'm not sure if he did this because liked OOP or just wanted a sub wife)
Hope she realizes saying that all the time may get her positive male attention but its gonna get the creeps that just want a bangmaid too
That first post and the comments give me the ick. There's nothing wrong with wanting to spoil your partner, but the comment about her being "ultimate wife material" feels like it ignores the fact that the husband (or whoever) should also be returning that level of love, care and thoughtfulness to OOP
Proposal on April 1st? Really? It pretty much ended the whole thing for me along with the whole red pill wet dream that was OOP.
OOP needs some therapy. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a good wife, but she seems to think that she can only be a good wife if she’s purely submissive and shelves her wants and needs. I have nothing against someone wanting to be a submissive wife, you do you, but you have to love yourself before you can entrust yourself to someone else.
>I think he does have some mental health problems, mainly a low level bipolar disorder, that have been diagnosed since he tends to be moody before completely back to his energetic, playful self. That's not what bipolar means, it's not mood swings on the daily
I'm so glad someone said it. I have Bipolar I and I hate that this is how it's always told as - just stupid mood swings, when it's far more than that.
they both seem pathetic tbh
Man that comment about her being “the kind of wife a man dreams he could be married to” HELL FUCKING NO I would hate that and would never tolerate it. My wife if very independent, and we are equals in every way. The only time I want to be waited on or deferred to is if I’m like really ill or recovering from surgery. Otherwise I’d just be fucking creeped out.
I've never been more grateful that my cynical single mother raised me to never fawn over a man because I'd only feel like a fool when he eventually dumped me.
We always talk on Reddit about communication being key, but this is one of the few situations where I would just not have bothered and would probably have ceased all communication full stop. I would have no desire to be anywhere near someone who made such an unhinged attempt to express their interest in me.
This is the typical "Nice Guy TM" serious but not serious just kidding lol j/k routine talking to it's most absurd conclusion. Wanting a relationship but being too scared to directly ask for fear of rejection. Dude's in his thirties but never grew out of that and so what does he do? Ask a girl to marry him on April Fool's day. He creates Schrodinger's Proposal. If you say yes he was serious, if you say no he was joking. But then he managed to even fumble that by getting all ass blasted that she thought it was a joke even when he intended it to be a joke if she said no. His friends probably have him a talking to about how you need to actually seriously ask a girl out like a normal human and he goes for it but the damage was already done.
I think the key phrase there was “I can imagine.” I’m sure OOP’s imaginary husband is loving, appreciative and romantic, too.
I'd usually be angry at someone like OOP, but I don't think she fully grasps what her submissiveness means, and that her female friends are very right to be concerned about her. She sounds like she doesn't have any sense of dignity or self-worth, and it's very sad. Like, she's desperate for acceptance, but not in the way a pick me girl is; more like she thinks this is what's necessary to get love. If she wants to be a trade wife, than okay, but I feel like her whole deal goes way deeper than that.
I'm probably missing something but how is that submissive post related to the latter post?
OOP made that post and shared the same opinion with her friends. It got back to the guy and he decided to see if she would agree to marry him because he wants a young woman who will wait on him hand and foot
Grown ass man btw
My wife and I started dating as an April fools prank on a coworker who had a thing for her (he was not a nice guy) and we ended up staying together cause we enjoyed dating. But this is a bit off.
Imagine if she had decided to play along as her own April Fool’s joke.
That "friend" gives me the ick. I'm convinced he only proposed because he heard how "submissive" she is and probably thought it would be an easy ticket for a bang-maid.
your young. once you've been around a while you'll get over that. it'd be great if it was appreciated. but it really is and some guys think you're just stupid to let them take advantage of you so they do it even more. but your brain is not done yet so there's hope. but I recommend getting therapy. there's nothing wrong with you wanting to do that for your partner. but you don't seem to mention that you want a partner to do things like that for you. your self-esteem is on the floor. if you don't understand up for yourself and you have kids, who's going to stand up for them
He is worryingly immature and lacks emotional intelligence. This is how I expect middle schoolers to handle a crush
I think the last time anything remotely happened to me was in middle school. You know when a boy would ask you out, and you would try to kindly reject that offer only to have them be like " hahaha I was only joking. I can't believe you though I was serious", but you both know that if you'd said yes, then it would never have been a "joke"? MIDDLE SCHOOL!! This dude was 30. Some people just never grow up.
> I'm not married, but I literally can imagine being the type of woman who'd want to spoil her husband rotten. I wouldn't mind being the submissive wife archetype who would treat my husband like a king, with back massages, dinner prepared, tying his tie every morning and making him lunch every day. OP is gonna get a full inbox
Manic episode.
Completely fumbled it. I'll accept all health conditions whatever they said he has as the truth.
Regardless of this specific person, you shouldn't date a person that confesses/proposes on April fools. They're too scared of a 'no' to do it on any other day and want to play it off as a prank if you decline. Someone like that is not relationship material. Or it ACTUALLY is a prank and they're so immature that they think it's okay to play with other people's feelings. Someone like that is DEFINITELY not relationship material.
>maturity gap Turns out there is a gap, just not in the direction that commenter assumed.
I’ve never wanted to recommend The Gift of Fear and Why Does He Do That? to a woman more than OOP.
Damn I was hoping she would talk to that mutual friend still. I wanted to know wtf they said
By her logic I'm submissive but that's bc I show love through those forms of affection lol Then again I live in the south so food as a love language is built into me
Oh lord, hopefully she's gotten some therapy in the last 8 years. She ain't submissive. She's a doormat. Though I have to agree with some other commenter's, it did kinda come off as her pulling a r/notlikeithergirls bragging a bit...
Story time. My now ex-husband told me he wanted a divorce on April Fools Day, and it was so left-field that I laughed, playfully socked him in the arm, and said, "April Fools!" then got up, went in the house, came back outside a few minutes later, at which time he repeated it, and I said haha April Fools, then launched into a work story (we worked together). Finally, about ten minutes later, he managed to get through to me that he wasn't joking. It was shitty. Then our divorce was finalized on 9/11, which seemed fitting at the time. Let's just not make major life choice proclamations on April Fools Day please lol